S02.E01: What Have They Done?

[grommit2]

OK.  Just catching up...questions/comments:

1) In Season 2, episode 1 or 2, it is acknowledged that Ziggy/Young Sheldon's father is actually the abusive husband of Celeste (Nicole Kidman).  Was this actually stated somewhere, or was it just cleverly woven into the story line?

2) Wow...Zoe Kravitz is the daughter of Lisa Bonet.  way cool.

3) Every one of the leads can deliver their lines with exceptional skill.  But none of them matches Meryl Streep.  She chews through her scenes with outstanding skill. 

4) And the show has my favorite kind of actor:  the "Disgruntled Teen".  Geez...every show needs at least one. Abigail is good.  But Whitney of "The Affair" is still the best.

5) And it looks like Nicole Kidman got her young daughter in a few episodes.

[Eri]

7 hours ago, grommit2 said:

OK.  Just catching up...questions/comments:

1) In Season 2, episode 1 or 2, it is acknowledged that Ziggy/Young Sheldon's father is actually the abusive husband of Celeste (Nicole Kidman).  Was this actually stated somewhere, or was it just cleverly woven into the story line?

You are correct - in episode 3 of season 1, Jane tells Madeline about her assault and that Ziggy was the result. She spends the rest of the series trying to find out who he was since she didn't see his face and could only remember his voice and smell. In the finale, the final confrontation jogs her memory and reveals who the mystery man is.

Edited July 10, 2019 by Eri

[chocolatine]

2 hours ago, Eri said:

9 hours ago, grommit2 said:

OK.  Just catching up...questions/comments:

1) In Season 2, episode 1 or 2, it is acknowledged that Ziggy/Young Sheldon's father is actually the abusive husband of Celeste (Nicole Kidman).  Was this actually stated somewhere, or was it just cleverly woven into the story line?

You are correct - in episode 3 of season 1, Jane tells Madeline about her assault and that Ziggy was the result. She spends the rest of the series trying to find out who he was since she didn't see his face and could only remember his voice and smell. In the finale, the final confrontation jogs her memory and reveals who the mystery man is.

Perry had also given Jane a fake name when they met, Saxon Banks. Jane was trying to track down the man who had that name and kill him, but when she saw Saxon face-to-face, she realized that he wasn't the rapist.

[grommit2]

5 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Perry had also given Jane a fake name when they met, Saxon Banks. Jane was trying to track down the man who had that name and kill him, but when she saw Saxon face-to-face, she realized that he wasn't the rapist.

Ok.  I caught up.  All is revealed in season 2. 
The show is very Shakesperean..."tangled webs..."  and all that.

[grommit2]

wow...Meryl Streep is award-winning outstanding in this series.

[ladymon]

On 6/9/2019 at 11:42 PM, JakeyJokes said:

I went to a somewhat affluent public high school that bordered a major city. My friends had moms like Renata and my brother works for the school and deals with them from time to time, and I encounter them often when working customer service. Laura Dern is SO SCARY REAL in this part.

I waited til the whole show aired and will now watch this season in it's entirety.  Just watched episode one.  Any chance this poster is from Oakville Ontario??  lol!

[JakeyJokes]

5 hours ago, ladymon said:

I waited til the whole show aired and will now watch this season in it's entirety.  Just watched episode one.  Any chance this poster is from Oakville Ontario??  lol!

Hee! Midwest major city in USA (well, next to one).

[aradia22]

I have mixed feelings about this start to season 2.

It still has the vibe of season 1 but I do think having more female talent behind the camera the show has already improving. It's less jarring and impenetrable. The editing is less choppy. It's way easier to understand. Like, in Celeste's first nightmare I already got that she was feeling conflicted... reliving her fear and hate and anger towards Perry but also missing him and the times when their sexual relationship was not violent and her good memories of parenting together. I choose to believe that while I'm sure he was abusive throughout the relationship, we saw the worst of it in season 1. I do think that a lot of what we saw in season 1 wasn't accurate reporting because she was blocking things out and editing her memories to shield herself from the trauma. But I don't think Celeste would have been attracted to him and then stayed so long if there weren't genuinely good moments earlier in their relationship. Anyway, in season 1, I would have really needed them to keep coming back to that idea because the editing would have been so choppy that it would have been impossible to understand. The camera angles are already so much better. Even if they weren't romantic scenes, they're being shot in a more intimate way. We aren't across the room in a wideshot for no reason.

My issue is that season 2 seems to be set up as them hiding a crime. And it feels really unnecessary. I don't know what would have happened to Bonnie but pushing a guy down the stairs who was assaulting multiple women and probably about to beat his wife to death doesn't seem like the kind of "crime" you need to cover up. And the guilt is clearly crushing her. I almost wish they HAD conspired to murder Perry. Because having the detective and Mary Louise and the ghost of Perry breathing down their necks just feels like an awful plan for the season. 

Other random thoughts...

I don't know everyone mumbled more this episode or the dialogue was just unnatural but I needed the subtitles.

Shailene's new hair is terrible. Awful choice. It looks slightly better in an updo.

Dern was acting so broadly as Renata with the teacher. I did think she was more fun during her photoshoot. I hope she isn't too much of a caricature this season.

Speaking of a caricature, Madeline is fully unbearable. But that helps me enjoy how crazy Streep is as Mary Louise. If she was just terrorizing Celeste, it would be hard to watch but letting her face off against Madeline is a little fun. Also, Madeline's outfit with the pink blouse and floral skirt was super cute.

So Bonnie and Jane are both going to be running this season? Great...

 

[aradia22]

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After meeting Mary Louise, not surprised Perry ended up being an egotistical man. She adores him and puts him in a pedestal that enabled him and probably his actions a lot. 

Great point. I was so focused on signs of abusive disciplinarian behavior that I missed how all the coddling and ego-stroking could also make him a monster.

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I cannot remember, but did Jane know Perry was married that night? 

I don't think that was ever said or even implied in season 1. The way she told the story, she just met a charming, funny guy at a bar. 

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I’m concerned for Celeste because there is no proof of Perry’s abuse, is there?

Wait, what? I assumed the abuse was acknowledged by everyone. Even if all the women were being pushed around, Celeste walked away from that night with bruises on her face and probably injuries from the way Perry was kicking her. Are we to believe that people think that level of violence was a somehow justifiable one-time incident!?!

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Sorry, Madeline, but a 3.8 GPA and a 1350 SAT means Abigail is not going to get into a top tier school so even if she wanted to go to college, Stanford and Princeton are very unlikely. As for this job she was offered, what kind of startup would hire a high school graduate with no experience in anything?

YUP. I think the point is that Madeline is just as delusional about Abigail's college prospects as Renata is about Amabella's genius IQ. I feel like people are irrationally hard on Renata and soft on Madeline. I see them as the same type of person but, to me, Madeline is worse because she's malicious/careless about other people's feelings. Also, I thought the same thing about the start up. Are they so desperate for employees that they made a job offer before she's even out of school?

[aradia22]

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What she's describing sounds like it could easily be pretty shady.

Yeah, that was my immediate take; something like a cover for human trafficking or underground bumfights. Whatever, she probably has no idea what she might really be walking into. Hopefully Maddie will thoroughly check it out beforehand.

My thought (since all the men are bad on this show) was that the man at the startup who made the job offer was hoping to take advantage of this barely legal girl once he got her in his orbit.

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I am enjoying Meryl. I can't wait for her to meet Renata. She's fun and the character has a very lived in feel. But her ability to be overtly unsettling is a delightful surprise. She is at the the age when she doesn't give a rat's ass about being nice. I also like the introduction of an older woman. 

For the most part, I don't have a problem with her performance. I find the way she needles people very natural. It's mannered but she's being manipulative. She's not just lashing out with random criticism. She's toying with them... well, mostly Madeline at this point. I thought the dinner table scene was over the top but Meryl played what the writers gave her, as Laura Dern does, which was crazy. There was no way to make screaming at the dinner table like that feel normal. The other thing that is feeling contrived is the way she keeps showing up to wake Celeste from her nightmares having conveniently entered in time to hear the incriminating things she was saying in her sleep.

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No way would Maddie, for whom appearances are very important as well as her reputation, have shushed her customers when she could make big bucks from them.  She was also written as just unremittingly awful in her interactions with Abigail.

Unpopular opinion... she's always been like this.

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I wish TV was more nuanced at writing teenage girl characters, 'cause they aren't all bratty all the time.

It makes me wonder about the writers who write these kinds of shallow characters. Are they getting out old high school resentments or, if they're parents, is this how they see their children? 

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I think Madeline sees Abigail as her "trophy" kid and a reflection of herself.

I think the show wants her to be more sympathetic. Madeline keeps saying things about how she married young and didn't get to go to college so her opportunities were limited. This would be more meaningful if the timeline didn't make it seem like she went from being married to Nathan to pretty quickly getting married to Ed and living this very comfortable lifestyle. And if it didn't seem like she pretty easily became a realtor since the end of season 1. However, the way it plays does not come across well. I agree with the person who said it was reminiscent of the parents in the College Admissions Scandal who felt insecure about not going to college so they wanted their kids to get into a semi-prestigious school.

[Alexander Pope]

am I the only one who is having constant deja vu while watching the second season? I feel like I have seen many of the scenes before--like the one where Jane's friend at the aquarium tells her she is one of the Monterey 5.  What is going on?  Are they actually recycling footage?  or is it just me?

 

Edited May 10, 2020 by Alexander Pope

[wanderingstar]

I just started watching season 2.

Where'd Tom go?

All the kids look older!

Nice to see Mo McRae as the second grade teacher.

Nathan is still the worst.

Edited June 10, 2020 by Gillian Rosh
Because I had to state that Nathan is the worst.

[Aqua]

On 6/10/2019 at 12:01 PM, Dominii said:

4. That they would change Amabella's name to Annabella. With that kind of pretentious and ugly name, it's no wonder she was bullied!

 

I thought all along it was Emmabella. Have we ever seen her name written out?

[Aqua]

On 6/10/2019 at 10:22 PM, chocolatine said:

 

 

On 6/10/2019 at 10:06 PM, Cheezwiz said:

Also wishing we could see her with her previous coffee shop beau, but it looks like he's out of the picture entirely. The new guy they seem to be introducing looks way too young for her. Like, high-school young. I don't get it.

At the door of her house and at the fundraiser the looks Jane was giving seemed to show she didn't particularly like the guy but was just using him as a date. That's what I thought anyway.

[Aqua]

On 6/11/2019 at 2:06 AM, chocolatine said:

Celeste hit Perry in the junk with a tennis racquet during a fight last season (in self-defense, of course). Apparently, that "broke" his urethra - not sure how medically accurate that was.

It was a tennis racquet? I thought it was rough sex.

[Aqua]

On 6/11/2019 at 8:15 PM, Lady Calypso said:

No surprise Nathan is still a dick. 

In my opinion Madeline's thankfully now beardless husband is also a dick.

[Aqua]

On 6/13/2019 at 3:13 PM, Penman61 said:

IIRC it's strongly implied in S1 that Jane named him in homage to Bowie's persona Ziggy Stardust.

In one of the episodes the principal calls him "Zigfield."