S06.E11: Green New Deal and Carbon Pricing

[Athena]

Quote

Other segments: Abortion laws in Georgia, Alabama, and Ohio
Guests: Bill Nye

 

[Lantern7]

Thanks to Game of Thrones and the Veep finale, tonight’s episode runs from 11:40-12:11.

[Annber03]

First things first, fuuuuuuuuck you, Georgia lawmakers. What the ever-loving hell is with that sorry excuse for a law? God, I hope that crap is shot down hard and fast and we can, at some point, make it so that nobody is ever allowed to try pulling that again. That's insane. 

And "Baby Fetus". Just. Wow.

Second, "Nothing's free, you idiot, grow the fuck up." Thank you, Bill Nye. Seriously, I watch that "Through the Decades" show, and I've heard stories on there about all the efforts that politicians of both parties were willing to make in the '70s to try and tackle the environmental issues. People weren't sitting around doubting and debating whether this stuff was a problem, they knew full well it was*. And I'm thinking about all the great inventions this country has pushed forth throughout its history. What in the hell has happened to make people so resistant to doing something big now? How do some people not seem to care about the fact that my generation, and the ones coming up, will have to deal with the effects of these problems going forward? I just...don't get it. 

((Obviously we can point to the rise of people listening to idiot pundits who are allergic to facts as part of the problem, but...yeah.) 

I'd also argue that it might be easier to deal with the cost of some of these potential ideas to tackle these kinds of issues if we, y'know, made the rich people pay their fair share so that they can help foot a lot of the bill. But that's just crazy talk, apparently. 

I do appreciate Oliver's optimism at the end, though. I too hope that eventually we'll get people back in office who actually give a damn about this stuff and will be willing to make some of these big changes. 

[Lantern7]

All I could think about as I watched was George Carlin’s take on efforts to “save the Earth.” He pointed out that the planet has survived countless disasters in its existence. It basically peaked with this: “The planet is fine. THE PEOPLE ARE FUCKED!!” Maybe if AOC went with that angle, shitheads wouldn’t be shitting on her. Honestly, the only thing missing at that rally was a “FUCK THE EARTH!” chant.

Bill Nye was after my time. I remember him from Almost Live! when it ran on Comedy Central. He doesn’t usually cuss since he’s been elevated in status, has he? Sadly, John was way too amused by him.

Apparently, any store dealing with dressing people like John goes with the line, “Men’s Clothing For The Knackered.” The ironic part is that John might not actually be English, and no one questioned him about his accent. Bravo for that mini-monologue, by the way. 👍

Edited May 13, 2019 by Lantern7

[Robert Lynch]

At least, there was a positive feedback at the end than the doom and gloom scenario that Bill Maher and others like him love to give their take on. 

I must admit, I enjoyed those technical difficulties between correspondents. The blank stares and forced smiles when nothing comes around. I think the worse is Fox News by far. 

That republican woman from Georgia speaking in platitudes about Baby Fetus. Wow. Just literally no words to say about that.

Edited May 13, 2019 by Robert Lynch

[Annber03]

2 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

Bill Nye was after my time. I remember him from Almost Live! when it ran on Comedy Central. He doesn’t usually cuss since he’s been elevated in status, has he?

I'm curious about that, too. I know he had a new show out recently, on Netflix (though I haven't seen it), so I dunno if that made him feel freer to cuss :p. I remember our teachers showing his old show in school sometimes when I was a little kid :). 

39 minutes ago, Robert Lynch said:

I must admit, I enjoyed those technical difficulties between correspondents. The blank stares and forced smiles when nothing comes around. I think the worse is Fox News by far. 

The last one with the lady just sitting there blankly smiling and blinking was hilarious. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

13 hours ago, Annber03 said:

And "Baby Fetus". Just. Wow.

That's a baby whose name is Fetus! I loved that one of the quotes from his seminal autobiography was about The Office (which obviously hadn't yet aired in 1973 when Fetus the Baby wrote his book).

Edited May 13, 2019 by ElectricBoogaloo

[ahisma]

11 hours ago, Annber03 said:

People weren't sitting around doubting and debating whether this stuff was a problem, they knew full well it was.

I think it's primarily oil and coal companies with their PR and lobbyists. In the 1970s when rivers were catching on fire and when you couldn't see across the street in LA on a smoggy day, it was super obvious that these were human-caused problems, and they were problems that were fixable. Treat industrial water waste before it goes into waterways. Put scrubbers in factory smokestacks. Increase gas mileage on cars, and switch to unleaded gasoline.

But stopping carbon dioxide going into the atmosphere means no burning fossil fuels at all—the oil and coal industries tank. And since they could confuse the issue with “volcanoes” and “long term climate cycles,” etc., they kicked the can as far down the road as they could. With fires, storms, and sea level rise, though, their time is pretty much up. They should have spent the money on developing carbon sequestration technology instead. 

It was pretty great seeing Bill Nye swear about it. 

And, holy smokes, that Fetus named Baby thing was surrealities!

[ganesh]

I think the green new deal is fine jumping off point to tackle climate issues. I don't think you're going to achieve these goals without including nuclear, but it is the most complex problem we've ever faced as a people. The one thing I just don't get is the sheer terror they have for AOC which derails any substantive debate. 

So what if we get rid of some airplanes? It's patently ridiculous that we have to use a plane to go north/south on the coasts or in the midwest corridor instead of high speed rail, which is a known and established technology worldwide. 

[meowmommy]

3 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I loved that one of the quotes from his seminal autobiography was about The Office

Hah!  I had to rewatch it to get the reference.

14 hours ago, Annber03 said:

"Nothing's free, you idiot, grow the fuck up."

I get that, but I am concerned that a bump in gasoline tax would disproportionately hurt poor people.  Well-to-do people can afford to pay more to fill their gas-guzzling SUVs.  Public transportation is not a viable option everywhere.

14 hours ago, Annber03 said:

I've heard stories on there about all the efforts that politicians of both parties were willing to make in the '70s to try and tackle the environmental issues.

I took a couple of classes at Buhl Planetarium in Pittsburgh in the summer of 1969.  I always made sure I brought an orange with me and ate it before the bus got near the city, so I could stick my head in the paper bag and breathe orange peels instead of noxious industrial fumes.  Fourteen years later, I went to nursing school in Pittsburgh, and it had become a lovely and interesting city.  That didn't just happen by itself.

[peeayebee]

2 hours ago, ganesh said:

The one thing I just don't get is the sheer terror they have for AOC which derails any substantive debate. 

What I don't get is how the Right came up with the meme that AOC is an airhead. 

A superficial note: The Baby Fetus woman never should wear that color blouse again. It looked like her own skin and that her boobs were blurred out.

Except for not having my affairs in order, I wouldn't mind dropping dead tomorrow. I don't think there's any coming back from the environmental disasters that are coming, not to mention the corruption and immorality in politics, the boldness of hatred in society, and the dark and scary side of the internet.

[Annber03]

1 hour ago, meowmommy said:

I get that, but I am concerned that a bump in gasoline tax would disproportionately hurt poor people.  Well-to-do people can afford to pay more to fill their gas-guzzling SUVs.  Public transportation is not a viable option everywhere.

Oh, it's a totally valid concern, for sure. No argument there. But instead of laughing at the people who suggest these kinds of taxes and such, these politicians should try talking with them, and hell, talking to the taxpayers themselves, and figuring out how to fund this stuff in a way that is fair and beneficial. That's what mature adults would and should do, but unfortunately, we're in very short supply of those nowadays, it seems. Funny, of course, that when it comes to spending money on more weapons and wars overseas, however, people don't seem to give a damn about the price tag for taxpayers. 

The issue of public transportation should definitely be part of that discussion, too. I live in an area with limited public transportation, too. I share in the frustration. Like I said above, we've sent people to the moon, yet somehow we're stalling out on tackling issues like this nowadays. It's mind-boggling.

4 hours ago, ahisma said:

I think it's primarily oil and coal companies with their PR and lobbyists. In the 1970s when rivers were catching on fire and when you couldn't see across the street in LA on a smoggy day, it was super obvious that these were human-caused problems, and they were problems that were fixable. Treat industrial water waste before it goes into waterways. Put scrubbers in factory smokestacks. Increase gas mileage on cars, and switch to unleaded gasoline.

But stopping carbon dioxide going into the atmosphere means no burning fossil fuels at all—the oil and coal industries tank. And since they could confuse the issue with “volcanoes” and “long term climate cycles,” etc., they kicked the can as far down the road as they could. With fires, storms, and sea level rise, though, their time is pretty much up. They should have spent the money on developing carbon sequestration technology instead. 

This is true, and good explanation as well. Yet another reason of many we need campaign finance reform, to kick out these lobbyists that strangle any opportunities for change. 

Quote

What I don't get is how the Right came up with the meme that AOC is an airhead. 

Well, they can't really dump on Hillary anymore, since she doesn't pose any sort of immediate political threat to them, and their feeble attempts to be all, "We really should look into her e-mails again" have kind of fallen flat, so they need somebody new to set their sights on to smear and mock. 

Edited May 13, 2019 by Annber03

[ganesh]

I didn't own a car for nearly 20 years because Berkeley/San Francisco and Tokyo have public transportation. (I don't know if anyone would call Muni *good*, but people use it). 

I had to buy one for my new job though because those options aren't here. 

Additionally, in the big mountain west out here, flying isn't really an option because it's cheaper to drive to these more remote cities, but it's still a 600 mile trip each way. I get great mileage, but it's still a lot of gas. 

[BuyMoreAndSave]

On 5/13/2019 at 12:19 AM, Annber03 said:

Second, "Nothing's free, you idiot, grow the fuck up." Thank you, Bill Nye. Seriously, I watch that "Through the Decades" show, and I've heard stories on there about all the efforts that politicians of both parties were willing to make in the '70s to try and tackle the environmental issues. People weren't sitting around doubting and debating whether this stuff was a problem, they knew full well it was*. And I'm thinking about all the great inventions this country has pushed forth throughout its history. What in the hell has happened to make people so resistant to doing something big now? How do some people not seem to care about the fact that my generation, and the ones coming up, will have to deal with the effects of these problems going forward? I just...don't get it. 

((Obviously we can point to the rise of people listening to idiot pundits who are allergic to facts as part of the problem, but...yeah.) 

I'd also argue that it might be easier to deal with the cost of some of these potential ideas to tackle these kinds of issues if we, y'know, made the rich people pay their fair share so that they can help foot a lot of the bill. But that's just crazy talk, apparently. 

I do appreciate Oliver's optimism at the end, though. I too hope that eventually we'll get people back in office who actually give a damn about this stuff and will be willing to make some of these big changes. 

Bill Nye is definitely my favorite alumnus of my college now (he makes up for Ann Coulter). I've been waiting for someone in authority to tell these people to grow up! "Waaaah, I can't have my hamburgers and my 3000 sq ft house and I have to bring my own bags to the store!" The funny thing is a lot of these people consider themselves to be "real Americans" with the grit and resiliency of people "back in the day." Yet they cry if they have to make the smallest sacrifice to their conveniences for the greater good.

Back then the pollution was more visible. Climate change takes a while to show up and people are just beginning to notice it in the US now. It's no accident that people are talking about it so much now. I've been following climate coverage in the media since 2014 and it was almost never talked about prior to the IPCC report that came out last year. I think the hurricanes and ESPECIALLY the wildfires also played a huge role in scaring people. The image of people fleeing a firestorm and suffocating while their wheels melted to the road is an impactful metaphor for the planet warming. Even conservatives are getting on board and the majority of young conservatives believe in climate change and that something should be done about it. I even read Trump plans to run on his environmental record (LOL)!

On 5/13/2019 at 6:43 AM, Lantern7 said:

All I could think about as I watched was George Carlin’s take on efforts to “save the Earth.” He pointed out that the planet has survived countless disasters in its existence. It basically peaked with this: “The planet is fine. THE PEOPLE ARE FUCKED!!” Maybe if AOC went with that angle, shitheads wouldn’t be shitting on her. Honestly, the only thing missing at that rally was a “FUCK THE EARTH!” chant.

Bill Nye was after my time. I remember him from Almost Live! when it ran on Comedy Central. He doesn’t usually cuss since he’s been elevated in status, has he? Sadly, John was way too amused by him.

Apparently, any store dealing with dressing people like John goes with the line, “Men’s Clothing For The Knackered.” The ironic part is that John might not actually be English, and no one questioned him about his accent. Bravo for that mini-monologue, by the way. 👍

I love how these people are completely ignorant of natural history and they consider themselves separate from nature and that nature is just some economic resource. Like, dudes, the ecosystem survived the Permian extinction...but most species didn't though!

23 hours ago, ganesh said:

I think the green new deal is fine jumping off point to tackle climate issues. I don't think you're going to achieve these goals without including nuclear, but it is the most complex problem we've ever faced as a people. The one thing I just don't get is the sheer terror they have for AOC which derails any substantive debate. 

So what if we get rid of some airplanes? It's patently ridiculous that we have to use a plane to go north/south on the coasts or in the midwest corridor instead of high speed rail, which is a known and established technology worldwide. 

Or people could just not fly unnecessarily. I've taken three round trips by airplane in my entire life and two of those were under three hours, I haven't flown since 2015 and don't plan to in the foreseeable future, and I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything by not traveling. Although of course "back in the day" had its own major issues, back in WWII and all that, people accepted rationing and having to do extra work and having to give up some things they enjoyed to support the war effort. Now people won't even give up the most unnecessary and frivolous conveniences for the climate change effort.

20 hours ago, peeayebee said:

What I don't get is how the Right came up with the meme that AOC is an airhead. 

They're not so secretly intimidated by the support she is getting and the influence she has amassed in such a short time (which ironically they contributed to by covering her life constantly). Probably a racist component in there for at least some of them too, as well as the irrational hatred that many older people have for millennials.

Anyway, as a final note, I wish he also threw a reference in there to being childfree by choice or at least having less children. That is the #1 individual action people can take to reduce their carbon footprint and we won't get anywhere on climate change without it.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jul/12/want-to-fight-climate-change-have-fewer-children

[ElectricBoogaloo]

1 hour ago, BuyMoreAndSave said:

Or people could just not fly unnecessarily. I've taken three round trips by airplane in my entire life and two of those were under three hours, I haven't flown since 2015 and don't plan to in the foreseeable future, and I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything by not traveling.

That works if you still live near your family but many people I know did not move back to their hometowns after college which means they have to travel for the holidays or so they can take their kids to visit their grandparents. That’s doable if you can drive there in less than a day, but when you’re looking at 1000+ miles that means adding at least extra two days just to drive there and back and not everyone can take that much time off from work. Some people only get Christmas day off (Mr. EB’s company lets the employees leave two hours early on Christmas Eve).

[BuyMoreAndSave]

37 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

That works if you still live near your family but many people I know did not move back to their hometowns after college which means they have to travel for the holidays or so they can take their kids to visit their grandparents. That’s doable if you can drive there in less than a day, but when you’re looking at 1000+ miles that means adding at least extra two days just to drive there and back and not everyone can take that much time off from work. Some people only get Christmas day off (Mr. EB’s company lets the employees leave two hours early on Christmas Eve).

As I said, we're going to need to make sacrifices and I think people haven't grasped that the sacrifices are going to be a lot bigger than just not using plastic bags or eating steaks. We probably could have gotten this done without such big sacrifices had we started in the 80s like the original plan was, but unfortunately certain people did everything in their power to prevent that from happening.

Edited May 14, 2019 by BuyMoreAndSave

[ganesh]

2 hours ago, BuyMoreAndSave said:

Or people could just not fly unnecessarily.

That's what I was saying about rail down the coasts, etc. People take Amtrak from NYC to DC all the time. High speed rail could get you from Seattle to San Diego in 5 hours? 

I don't live near family, but I don't travel for Thanksgiving. So that reduces 2 flights (thanksgiving,xmas) to one. 

We also drive a ton around here. I don't understand why people will fly, which takes the better part of a day, when I get get to the same location in 8 hours driving. 

Edited May 14, 2019 by ganesh

[BuyMoreAndSave]

2 minutes ago, ganesh said:

That's what I was saying about rail down the coasts, etc. People take Amtrak from NYC to DC all the time. High speed rail could get you from Seattle to San Diego in 5 hours? 

I don't live near family, but I don't travel for Thanksgiving. So that reduces 2 flights (thanksgiving,xmas) to one. 

We also drive a ton around here. I don't understand why people will fly, which takes the better part of a day, when I get get to the same location in 8 hours driving. 

I would definitely take the extra travel time of high-speed rail to avoid the nausea and abject terror of flying, not even counting the emissions.

[Annber03]

Yeah, the only time I could see myself flying again is if I'm ever able to go overseas for a vacation or something, or if I get a job that requires flying to various places. Within the U.S. itself, though, I'm more than happy driving or taking a bus or some other kind of public transit where possible. 

I do get where the issue of not flying is a tough one for other people, though.

5 hours ago, BuyMoreAndSave said:

Bill Nye is definitely my favorite alumnus of my college now (he makes up for Ann Coulter). I've been waiting for someone in authority to tell these people to grow up! "Waaaah, I can't have my hamburgers and my 3000 sq ft house and I have to bring my own bags to the store!" The funny thing is a lot of these people consider themselves to be "real Americans" with the grit and resiliency of people "back in the day." Yet they cry if they have to make the smallest sacrifice to their conveniences for the greater good.

Spot on. Selfishness is a big problem nowadays, and nobody seems to care about how their actions will affect other people. I love your "grit and resiliency" point, too. So true. 

Quote

Back then the pollution was more visible. Climate change takes a while to show up and people are just beginning to notice it in the US now. It's no accident that people are talking about it so much now. I've been following climate coverage in the media since 2014 and it was almost never talked about prior to the IPCC report that came out last year. I think the hurricanes and ESPECIALLY the wildfires also played a huge role in scaring people. The image of people fleeing a firestorm and suffocating while their wheels melted to the road is an impactful metaphor for the planet warming. Even conservatives are getting on board and the majority of young conservatives believe in climate change and that something should be done about it. I even read Trump plans to run on his environmental record (LOL)!

Oh, god, yeah, the weather extremes have been a serious wake up call in a lot of ways. I remember hearing once about how one of the local weathermen in...Alabama, I want to say, who reported on the 2011 tornado outbreak that devastated the southeastern U.S. didn't believe in global warming and that just floored me. How, after looking at the insanity that storm system wrought, can one still be so blind and not think, "You know, something's really not right here." 

Quote

They're not so secretly intimidated by the support she is getting and the influence she has amassed in such a short time (which ironically they contributed to by covering her life constantly). Probably a racist component in there for at least some of them too, as well as the irrational hatred that many older people have for millennials.

Yep. They can't deal with the fact that their time running things is winding down and they're scared of the younger generation's push back on their nonsense. I'm on the older end of the millennial spectrum and I'm very excited to see what the up and coming generations will do when they start taking over. 

Edited May 14, 2019 by Annber03

[meowmommy]

1 hour ago, Annber03 said:

they're scared of the younger generation's push back on their nonsense

It works both ways.  Some commentary toward baby boomers is downright cruel.  There's enough irrational generational nonsense on all points along the spectrum.  For me, ageism is just as much bigotry as sexism or racism.

[Annber03]

9 minutes ago, meowmommy said:

It works both ways.  Some commentary toward baby boomers is downright cruel.  There's enough irrational generational nonsense on all points along the spectrum.  For me, ageism is just as much bigotry as sexism or racism.

Oh, absolutely. This is very true, too. There are many older people who have been fighting the good fight on a lot of issues for years as well, who are just as progressive and forward-thinking as younger generations are, and have plenty of good advice and help to offer the younger generations. Their views and hard work should be respected and appreciated, too.

In short, we really need to learn how to work together as a country again. 

[BuyMoreAndSave]

3 hours ago, Annber03 said:

Yeah, the only time I could see myself flying again is if I'm ever able to go overseas for a vacation or something, or if I get a job that requires flying to various places. Within the U.S. itself, though, I'm more than happy driving or taking a bus or some other kind of public transit where possible. 

I do get where the issue of not flying is a tough one for other people, though.

Spot on. Selfishness is a big problem nowadays, and nobody seems to care about how their actions will affect other people. I love your "grit and resiliency" point, too. So true. 

Oh, god, yeah, the weather extremes have been a serious wake up call in a lot of ways. I remember hearing once about how one of the local weathermen in...Alabama, I want to say, who reported on the 2011 tornado outbreak that devastated the southeastern U.S. didn't believe in global warming and that just floored me. How, after looking at the insanity that storm system wrought, can one still be so blind and not think, "You know, something's really not right here." 

Yep. They can't deal with the fact that their time running things is winding down and they're scared of the younger generation's push back on their nonsense. I'm on the older end of the millennial spectrum and I'm very excited to see what the up and coming generations will do when they start taking over. 

I think people don't realize the effort required to stop this though. AOC's comment about stopping all planes wasn't just a joke. People hating on her for it are just shooting the messenger and refusing to accept that we let it get to a point where the extreme solution is the only one that will work. We are going to have to make big sacrifices like not being able to visit distant family for Christmas. It's not the fault of the environmentalists for stating the facts. If they had been listened to in the 80s we wouldn't be here now.

Consumer culture created the culture of selfishness and that's why we got to this point. American individualism is killing our society on multiple levels.

Weatherpeople who are deniers just baffle me. Like seriously, you're not going to do basic research on the field that you work in?!

The teenage generation (Gen Z?) is really inspiring with all they have been doing. I didn't have 1/10th the political awareness at their age.

2 hours ago, meowmommy said:

It works both ways.  Some commentary toward baby boomers is downright cruel.  There's enough irrational generational nonsense on all points along the spectrum.  For me, ageism is just as much bigotry as sexism or racism.

Agreed, and while overall the baby boomers in power failed really badly at protecting our future, a lot of people tried to do a lot of things on a smaller or larger scale. There have been a lot of baby boomers at environmental protests or meetings which I have attended.

[ganesh]

6 hours ago, BuyMoreAndSave said:

I would definitely take the extra travel time of high-speed rail to avoid the nausea and abject terror of flying, not even counting the emissions.

I took it Tokyo and France. It's fantastic. My dog went right to sleep because it's a quiet hum. And they have drink/food cars. You're not all crammed in like a plane. Probably wouldn't cost as much either. I'm not sure the travel time would be so much extra either. 

[meowmommy]

32 minutes ago, ganesh said:

My dog went right to sleep because it's a quiet hum.

That would be the main thing for--could I take my cats along?  Because AFAIK, right now Amtrak bans all pets on their trains.

7 hours ago, ganesh said:

We also drive a ton around here. I don't understand why people will fly, which takes the better part of a day, when I get get to the same location in 8 hours driving. 

I used to commute weekly between Santa Clarita, California, and the east valley of Phoenix.  Occasionally I drove my car instead of flying so that my cat could come with me.  It was about a six hour drive, but when I figured the time driving to Burbank airport, turning in the rental car, going through security, waiting in the terminal, the flight, going back through Sky Harbor airport, waiting for and then getting on the shuttle to get back to my car, and then driving home, there wasn't much difference.

[ganesh]

10 hours ago, meowmommy said:

It was about a six hour drive, but when I figured the time driving to Burbank airport, turning in the rental car, going through security, waiting in the terminal, the flight, going back through Sky Harbor airport, waiting for and then getting on the shuttle to get back to my car, and then driving home, there wasn't much difference.

They still have to rent a car and drive from the airport to the destination anyway, so tack on that time too, whereas I drive right there and can bring pets. 

I don't know if pets were allowed on shinkansen, but I did it anyway. The Japanese aren't going to call out a foreigner. 

[Danny Franks]

So I'm about 90% sure that my partner and I will never have children, because we simply don't know if the world they'll grow up in will be worth living in.

We are fucking up this planet beyond its ability to cope, and have been for a long time. The fact that there are still very large sections of the human population who either don't believe that, or flat out don't care, is appalling. But not surprising.

Scientists have been screaming warnings for years, but your average fiftysomething American guy would rather believe those hideous ghouls, Hannity and Ingraham, who sneeringly dismiss any threat because they probably figure they're rich enough to be okay.

As John explained here, we can't even have a serious conversation about trying to keep the human race alive, without people on the right presenting arguments in utterly bad faith. So I consider it pretty much a lost cause. I only hope that the worst effects of it all don't really hit until after I'm gone - Mass extinction of animal species, rising sea levels destroying coastal communities and cities around the world, food and water shortages causing mass migration and starvation.

I can't share in the vague optimism that John ended the episode with, because there is nothing about the human race, as a whole, that indicates we'll do nearly enough. And even if we really went all out, the global population is rising too quickly to allow for truly radical changes to food, water and energy production.