S05.E15: King Shark vs. Gorilla Grodd

[mac123x]

Second act commercial-out shocking surprise is kinda not too shocking nor a surprise when Gorilla Grodd is named in the fucking title of the episode.

I do want to give the show credit for having Barry be the asshole who first used the cure as a weapon.  I really expected it to be Cicada or some other antagonist.

I'm glad to have Joe back on the show but the whole "I found peace in Tibet" schtick was eye-roll worthy.

I noticed at least twice when Grodd was laid out flat, both our speedsters were up and running, and they stopped and just looked until Grodd got up.  Take the crown off, morons.

Keeping Grodd alive is just dumb at this point.  

[Commando Cody]

My only thought on this episode was, if they ever gave King Shark a show, they need to dump the woman. 

[Jediknight]

23 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

ARGUS is more than willing to bend the rules when it suits their purposes depending on who is in charge - Amanda Waller would absolutely claim that metacure as her own without missing a step.  If an evil meta is rampaging through a city do you shoot them with the cure or do you ask permission first?  ARGUS would shoot first.  They tend to be an end justify the means type.

Yeah, and season 3 of Legends of Tomorrow established that in the future ARGUS takes over and turns the United States into a police state.

[Al Herkimer]

My hope is that they're testing the waters for taking Barry's adoptive family, including his sisterwife, out of the picture altogether.  Possible as a way of changing the doomed future of the Arrowverse in general, what with the Flash disappearing and Star City becoming a hellhole and all.  Maybe as a result of the Crisis storyline they've teased?  Even if it doesn't happen permanently, I join the chorus in saying this return to where the focus of this show will always belong (actual superhero adventures, featuring the original team Flash), was a nice change of pace and I hope we get more of it.  Although Ralph was missing, he's part of the team now too I suppose.

[Quark]

I loved this episode.

It's so nice to see Joe back and Jesse L. Martin up and about.

[BeautifulFlower]

3 hours ago, Al Herkimer said:

My hope is that they're testing the waters for taking Barry's adoptive family, including his sisterwife, out of the picture altogether.  Possible as a way of changing the doomed future of the Arrowverse in general, what with the Flash disappearing and Star City becoming a hellhole and all.  Maybe as a result of the Crisis storyline they've teased?  Even if it doesn't happen permanently, I join the chorus in saying this return to where the focus of this show will always belong (actual superhero adventures, featuring the original team Flash), was a nice change of pace and I hope we get more of it.  Although Ralph was missing, he's part of the team now too I suppose.

Keep dreaming because it's never happening. Iris is here to stay. Joe is here to stay. They not testing anything.

I'm not getting into the whole adopted/sister thing. You're clearly one of the ones who continue to ignore details that disprove this.

There was never an original team flash. Y'all can keep thinking it was, but it will never be true. Joe was apart of the team and Eobard founded the team and mentor. Barry, Cisco, and Caitlin were never just them.

[adora721]

Here's an interesting answer from LWG to a question about the ethics of putting Grodd into a medically-induced coma against his will vs forcing the cure on King Shark or Cicada:

"And we definitely agree with you that it’s odd to have an episode where the characters vehemently disagree on forcing a cure on someone against their will, and then turn around and agree to force a medical procedure on Grodd…against his will. Grodd would arguably continue to be a threat to the public if he’s not put in a medically induced coma, but King Shark was also definitely going to bite Cisco’s head off (whether Shay was completely in his right mind or not) if Barry hadn’t made a split second, executive decision to save his friend’s life. Cicada is definitely a danger to society; they know he won’t stop killing metas, and Team Flash agreed to use the cure to stop him. So why is Barry forcing the cure on King Shark or Cicada any different than Caitlin and Lyla forcing Grodd into a coma? What makes one more justifiable than the other? The show did not do a great job of explaining that. "

I liked the feedback from another user sent to LWG; here's an excerpt:

"The big issue with this episode was how the ethics were handled. Garbage. Honestly. I don’t understand why writers which never addressed how problematic it was that one of its so-called heroes aided and abetted a human trafficking ring thought they could ethical considerations of administering a meta-human cure. Caitlin and Cisco lost all credibility when they agreed to administer the cure on Cicada, without his consent, thereby going against their rule not to use the cure on anyone without consent. For them to then have the hypocritical audacity to call Barry out, and for the narrative to have Barry apologize, after Cisco and Caitlin are totally okay with placing Grodd under a medically-induced coma, you know without his consent, is ludicrous. It made Cisco and Caitlin look like people who consider their opinion on who should get the cure and who should not as paramount, as if their scientific gods who can compromise standard ethics, but nobody else can. "

Edited March 10, 2019 by adora721

[DearEvette]

The King Shark vs. Grodd fight was the highlight of the episode.  

Loved the Joe/Iris subplot.  Just loved seeing Joe again and it was a nice change of pace to have them solely concentrated on each other.

Not sure why the writers wrote Jenna into Joe is absent subplot.  There are much easier ways to explain a baby not being seen onscreen than having her schlepped o Tibet.

I just roll my eyes with the whole 'you didn't get consent' line of reasoning from Cisco and Caitlin.  Y'all created and meta-humanly accelerated the production of a serum for the sole purpose of forcibly injecting it into your adversary.  Even going to the trouble of finding some tech to forcibly keep him still so you can inject it in him.  Only Now you struggle with the ethics of it?  And just in time to piss on Barry about it? Between this and the whole 'well we can only use it once so King ShayShark will have to be a shark from now on'  just scream "because of plot reasons..."

And finally, Barry and Iris are still technically newlyweds having been married less than a year. And yet you'd never know it considering they barely interact with each other in any intimate way that does not involve them pep talking each other about Nora. The last time we got anything that just let them interact as a loving couple was in Episode 5.

[SimoneS]

It is the inconsistent in the storytelling throughout the whole season that irks me. Just two or so episodes ago Cisco didn't want his powers any more so why didn't he volunteer to be the first test subject instead of offering it to King Shark? Also, didn't Caitlin and Cisco already agree to give the cure to Cicada? It is like Helbing barely gives the writers guidance and then merely skims the final script instead of paying careful attention to the storytelling.

[adora721]

I thought the worst retconning and inconsistency was done in S4, but S5 tops the cake.  Whoever is the Script Supervisor this season is seriously laying down on the job. No attention to continuity or details is happening this season. I wonder if theyll use the cure on Icicle, who shouldn't be affected since the cure removes dark matter from the pituitary gland.

[BeautifulFlower]

5 hours ago, DearEvette said:

The King Shark vs. Grodd fight was the highlight of the episode.  

Loved the Joe/Iris subplot.  Just loved seeing Joe again and it was a nice change of pace to have them solely concentrated on each other.

Not sure why the writers wrote Jenna into Joe is absent subplot.  There are much easier ways to explain a baby not being seen onscreen than having her schlepped o Tibet.

I just roll my eyes with the whole 'you didn't get consent' line of reasoning from Cisco and Caitlin.  Y'all created and meta-humanly accelerated the production of a serum for the sole purpose of forcibly injecting it into your adversary.  Even going to the trouble of finding some tech to forcibly keep him still so you can inject it in him.  Only Now you struggle with the ethics of it?  And just in time to piss on Barry about it? Between this and the whole 'well we can only use it once so King ShayShark will have to be a shark from now on'  just scream "because of plot reasons..."

And finally, Barry and Iris are still technically newlyweds having been married less than a year. And yet you'd never know it considering they barely interact with each other in any intimate way that does not involve them pep talking each other about Nora. The last time we got anything that just let them interact as a loving couple was in Episode 5.

The show is in real time. Barry and Iris got married in November 2017, which means they've been married for a 1 year and 3 months

[Cthulhudrew]

On 3/7/2019 at 10:58 AM, Cekrypton1 said:

Here's a question I love to ask: Why is a shark man wearing pants with a belt?? Cannot ARGUS or STAR get him some swim trunks?
 

Why does a shark man need pants of any sort? Does shark man have nards?

[Brinny]

9 hours ago, Cthulhudrew said:

Why does a shark man need pants of any sort? Does shark man have nards?

Solid reference.