Leo Fitz: Loves Sandwiches

[Lisin]

Fitz is adorable. I am constantly afraid Joss is going to kill him.

[tita]

Fitz is adorable. I am constantly afraid Joss is going to kill him.

Seriously: Joss, resist that urge. Fitz is sweet and Scottish and doofy and smart and Scottish and I love the character. His interactions with Simmons are great, of course, but he's also really interesting with the rest of the team.

[Wilowy]

I love him too! Coulson, May, and FITZ are my favorite characters! He's so relatable and sweetie adorable, but when he gets that look in his eye... when he gets in the zone... he's super-capable, super-smaht, super-agent and I love it! 

"What the HELL?"

[Sarahastro]

I love Fitz too, but one of the things I love about him is his edge. I love when he gets cranky and makes snarky comments. Just because Ward could probably knock Fitz out with only his pinkie doesn't mean that he's safe from the Fitz sass.

[Sarahastro]

This last episode was an amazing one for Fitz. I loved that he called Coulson out on all of his secrets with Skye, and how brave he was standing up to Garrett. Plus he saved both May and Coulson in that fight scene! And to me the best part is that they had him do all these heroic things will still being very emotional and scared instead of turning him into another super stoic S.H.I.E.L.D. robot.

[caseylane]

Is it just me or does crazy Fitz come across as better looking? I mean I always found him cute, in a puppy kind of way. With him being more serious I guess I'm watching his face more and I get surprised a couple of times an episode realizing that he's actually very nice looking. I love the budding friendship he's starting with the new guy.

Edited October 4, 2014 by caseylane

[Actionmage]

I love that Fitz's Head!Jemma appreciates Mack. *g*  I guess after Trip, Leo has accepted that Jemma likes to look. Doesn't mean Fitz is happy, but he knows that is part of actual Jemma and incorporates it.  It shows how much Fitz watches. It's sweet, currently.

[Malbec]

I am living for Fitz and Mack lately.  What can I say, I am a sucker for opposites-attract types of friendships (cough, HoYay, cough).

[Raja]

Time for a new sub title 

Science Biatch.

[SnoGirl]

Ohhhh! I totally second that request. I think Fitz has really come into his own this season (I feel this way about Simmons too). He really needed to be separated from Jemma so we could see him as one person.

I wonder if Jemma and Fitz finally do get to go on a date, if they'll spend the whole time finishing each other sentences...

[Wynterwolf]

According to Clark Gregg, the "biatch" was an ad lib by Iain:

 

 

[Jack Kerouac]

I guess the writers are determined to make Fitz the paragon of beta.

[HistoryGirl]

I wonder if Jemma and Fitz finally do get to go on a date, if they'll spend the whole time finishing each other sentences...

 

You mean sandwiches....

[Jack Kerouac]

So, in the Fitz thread, I thought I would try to get my head around where Fitz is at, emotionally.

 

Season 1

At the end of Season 1, Fitz admits and expresses his feelings (at least partially) to Simmons. He doesn't exactly say he loves her, but he does say she is 'more than that' when Simmons says he is her 'best friend in the whole world.' She doesn't respond except to basically lick his face like a dog (heh). No lip-on-lip action.

 

Season 2

Simmons leaves. Fitz misunderstands it to mean she 'gave up on him' because he was now different. Throughout the season, she comes close a couple of times to tell him it was because she made him worse, not better when she was around. It never quite happens, however.

 

At the the end of Season 2, Fitz has, I think, begun to move on. When Simmons wants to discuss their adventure under the sea at the most inopportune time, Fitz tells her 'there's nothing to discuss.' Her response: 'Maybe there is.' Fitz asks her out on a date, she accepts and then is sucked in the Giant Space Turd.

 

Season 3
Fitz has been apparently working non-stop to bring Simmons back from Planet Blue Filter, including getting into scuffles with Moroccan Generic Evil Dudes. On Blue Filter Planet, Simmons has prattled on (cutely) about their date, wondering if she should wear a dress, saying Fitz could hold out her chair for her if he REALLY wants to, etc., etc. She the shacks up with Harlequin Romance Space Boyfriend after giving up hope that Fitz will ever come to rescue her. This is of course after her talk with Commander Tom that her and Fitz are 'more than best friends,' etc., etc., shipper fanservice.

 

Fitz

So from Fitz perspective, after the rescue and the reveal that AoS writers apparently have a Big Book of Bad Plots, Simmons has given up on him twice. First, she gave up on him after his injury, as he still doesn't really know why she went away. Second she gave up hope of ever being rescued, which is tantamount to giving up on him and then started the horizontal mamba with Harlequin Space Boyfriend.

 

Simmons asks for Fitz's help to get Super Space Stud back from Blue Filter Planet, which she knows is going to hurt Fitz immensely. Fitz knows she knows, yet has asked anyway, because she is in an impossible situation.

 

I think over the next few episodes, we are going to see a whole lot of repressed guilt and shame from Simmons and a metric tonne of resentment from Fitz. Of course he is going to be pissed - who wouldn't be? He's probably made at her, mad at Will, mad at the situation, incredibly happy she lived and grateful to Will for keeping her alive.

 

Anyone else have thoughts?

[DeLurker]

Fitz

So from Fitz perspective, after the rescue and the reveal that AoS writers apparently have a Big Book of Bad Plots, Simmons has given up on him twice. First, she gave up on him after his injury, as he still doesn't really know why she went away. Second she gave up hope of ever being rescued, which is tantamount to giving up on him and then started the horizontal mamba with Harlequin Space Boyfriend.

 

Simmons asks for Fitz's help to get Super Space Stud back from Blue Filter Planet, which she knows is going to hurt Fitz immensely. Fitz knows she knows, yet has asked anyway, because she is in an impossible situation.

 

I think over the next few episodes, we are going to see a whole lot of repressed guilt and shame from Simmons and a metric tonne of resentment from Fitz. Of course he is going to be pissed - who wouldn't be? He's probably made at her, mad at Will, mad at the situation, incredibly happy she lived and grateful to Will for keeping her alive.

 

Anyone else have thoughts?

Italics mine:  I wouldn't count giving up all hope to ever being rescued to giving up on Fitz.  These things are not equal.  And the subsequent dalliance wasn't about Fitz.

 

While these two are in an impossible situation as you note, there is no winning decision for either of them.  If Simmons doesn't mention Major Tom, it is why the hell not?  Everyone is wondering why it has taken this long.  If Fitz doesn't try to recover Major Tom because he's jelly, than he's dirt and irredeemable.

 

I'm not on board with the perspective that Simmons has been stringing him since she became aware he has feelings for her (general response, not specific to your post).  Agreed that when this happens, the person is Simmons' position should be considerate of the others feelings, but the entire relationship dynamic should not be shifted to swaddling the others feelings.  They were friends and co-workers, and I think it is on both parties to figure out how to move forward from there.

[Jack Kerouac]

Italics mine:  I wouldn't count giving up all hope to ever being rescued to giving up on Fitz.  These things are not equal.  And the subsequent dalliance wasn't about Fitz.

 

I disagree, but respectfully! I think giving up on ever being rescued is exactly giving up on Fitz. Over on The Walking Dead, at the beginning of previous season, there is a great scene where 

where everyone is in a train car basically waiting to die. Carl basically says, "My dad will come for us. We just have to be ready when he does."

Carl believes in his father to such an extent that he knows 

Rick will come to rescue them.

 

Simmons lost faith that Fitz would come for her. And she was wrong. And never mind the fact that she really gave up hope after trying one thing. Did they try anything else? At all? Or did they just try the one thing and then said, "Well, I guess that's it. Let's just stay here forever! Kissy, kissy!"

 

I'm not on board with the perspective that Simmons has been stringing him since she became aware he has feelings for her (general response, not specific to your post).  Agreed that when this happens, the person is Simmons' position should be considerate of the others feelings, but the entire relationship dynamic should not be shifted to swaddling the others feelings.  They were friends and co-workers, and I think it is on both parties to figure out how to move forward from there.

 

I mostly agree with this as well, but remember, it was Simmons who instigated it this time with her, "Maybe there is" comment. Obviously, she didn't expect to get sucked in the Giant Space Turd (or at least I hope not!), but she was the one who started things up this time after Fitz seemed pretty determined to get over her.

 

There are no winners in this situation, especially since the showrunners have admitted to inserting Will into the story line to keep Fitz and Simmons apart. I'm just a little bored of the angst and moo moo eyes they keep giving each other. Now we get to watch Fitz be pissed, Simmons be shameful and then probably a reverse, then Will being rescued (but being evil, etc.), then Simmons realizing she wants to be with Fitz, just as Fitz is starting to get it on with someone else (I'm hoping for Daisy, to be honest).

Edited November 1, 2015 by Jack Kerouac

[Lobsel Vith]

On ‎11‎/‎1‎/‎2015 at 0:26 PM, Jack Kerouac said:

There are no winners in this situation, especially since the showrunners have admitted to inserting Will into the story line to keep Fitz and Simmons apart. I'm just a little bored of the angst and moo moo eyes they keep giving each other. Now we get to watch Fitz be pissed, Simmons be shameful and then probably a reverse, then Will being rescued (but being evil, etc.), then Simmons realizing she wants to be with Fitz, just as Fitz is starting to get it on with someone else (I'm hoping for Daisy, to be honest).

Out of curiosity, was it ever explained why the writers stopped acknowledging Fitz's attraction to Daisy after Season One? I get that they pursued the Simmons arc, but I'm a bit surprised that it's now one of those things you can easily forget was once part of the show instead of resolving it one way or another.

[TVSpectator]

On 9/7/2017 at 2:25 AM, Lobsel Vith said:

Out of curiosity, was it ever explained why the writers stopped acknowledging Fitz's attraction to Daisy after Season One? I get that they pursued the Simmons arc, but I'm a bit surprised that it's now one of those things you can easily forget was once part of the show instead of resolving it one way or another.

I think it was because of the shippers. They went with the most popular one and honestly, why did they ever write that Will storyline in the first place? Not to mention that they just decided out of the blue that Simmons will still want Will after she came back to Earth, and then just have her say things, later, like "oh, we should just forget about Will and leave him there on that planet because of IT".  The whole story had NO purpose and why does someone have to die so Simmons would hook up with Fitz?

Not to mention that Simmons never hinted that she liked Fitz until like Season 3. Everything else was this "well, he is my friend and I don't want to ruin our friendship" which is understandable but then in ONE episode Simmons did a 180 and started throwing herself on Fitz. Then in the next episode, she was like, "Oh, what about our friendship?" and then Fitz was like, "I am so close to banging you. Why won't you sleep with me?!" (okay, that was a paraphrase but that was the gist of it). 

 

Edit: to add a few more things

Edited September 11, 2017 by TVSpectator

[Lobsel Vith]

On ‎9‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 9:47 PM, TVSpectator said:

I think it was because of the shippers. They went with the most popular one and honestly, why did they ever write that Will storyline in the first place?

I do find it odd that they decided to entirely drop Fitz's attraction to Skye, say that he loves Simmons all of a sudden, but then create a number of hurdles to keep them apart as if they were afraid of putting them together.

I mean, if that's the goal, why not have Fitz tell Skye how he feels, she tells him she doesn't reciprocate, and then build towards Fitz and Simmons falling in love together instead of pulling it out of the ether after nearly a season of Fitz being attracted to someone else entirely? Did they think Fitz's sacrifice (at the end of Season One) wouldn't have the same meaning if he did it for a friend (which seems to follow the asinine logic of Dexter's last two seasons when it came to his sister's sudden 'revelation' about how she really felt for a certain someone)? It's not like they even pursued it at the beginning of Season 2, and it's pretty much shoehorned into the end of Season 2 (with a single line of dialogue in a single end at the tail-end of the episode that isn't even a concrete 'yes' but rather a maybe) with no real buildup at all (as if they wanted to give weight to Simmons' disappearance, as if Fitz wouldn't move heaven and earth to rescue her if she was simply a friend).

And there's the whole Will plot, as you pointed out, which simply keeps the two of them apart (and even then they decide to 'start fresh' so the implications of Will are pretty much swept under the rug, so it kind of becomes meaningless).

On ‎9‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 9:47 PM, TVSpectator said:

Not to mention that they just decided out of the blue that Simmons will still want Will after she came back to Earth, and then just have her say things, later, like "oh, we should just forget about Will and leave him there on that planet because of IT".  The whole story had NO purpose and why does someone have to die so Simmons would hook up with Fitz?

Yeah, the two day PTSD, the apparent week in not telling anyone about Will, and the inconsistency in how it's approached during this arc felt so strange - it's like the writers weren't on the same page from episode to episode, and that shouldn't have been the case for a single arc.

On ‎9‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 9:47 PM, TVSpectator said:

Not to mention that Simmons never hinted that she liked Fitz until like Season 3. Everything else was this "well, he is my friend and I don't want to ruin our friendship" which is understandable but then in ONE episode Simmons did a 180 and started throwing herself on Fitz. Then in the next episode, she was like, "Oh, what about our friendship?" and then Fitz was like, "I am so close to banging you. Why won't you sleep with me?!" (okay, that was a paraphrase but that was the gist of it). 

The whole thing was poorly handled overall. I'm not the biggest fan of angst for the sake of angst. If they didn't want to pair them together until Season 3, why not pair them with other people until then (as giving Simmons and Trip some story coverage might have better conveyed why she's upset at his loss in Season 2B instead of relying on fans remembering their brief scenes together in Season 1B)? It's not like the shippers were going to be happy about Simmons leaving Fitz during his brain injury, Simmons and Fitz fighting about Skye's Inhuman status (which was also pretty much swept under the rug because they had a common enemy in Gonzalez's S.H.I.E.L.D.), or Simmons' feelings for Will, so the writers thought process baffles me.

[MetaM]

On ‎13‎/‎09‎/‎2017 at 11:22 PM, Lobsel Vith said:

I do find it odd that they decided to entirely drop Fitz's attraction to Skye, say that he loves Simmons all of a sudden, but then create a number of hurdles to keep them apart as if they were afraid of putting them together.

I mean, if that's the goal, why not have Fitz tell Skye how he feels, she tells him she doesn't reciprocate, and then build towards Fitz and Simmons falling in love together instead of pulling it out of the ether after nearly a season of Fitz being attracted to someone else entirely? Did they think Fitz's sacrifice (at the end of Season One) wouldn't have the same meaning if he did it for a friend (which seems to follow the asinine logic of Dexter's last two seasons when it came to his sister's sudden 'revelation' about how she really felt for a certain someone)? It's not like they even pursued it at the beginning of Season 2, and it's pretty much shoehorned into the end of Season 2 (with a single line of dialogue in a single end at the tail-end of the episode that isn't even a concrete 'yes' but rather a maybe) with no real buildup at all (as if they wanted to give weight to Simmons' disappearance, as if Fitz wouldn't move heaven and earth to rescue her if she was simply a friend).

 

I think this part was set up quite well. Fitz clearly had a crush on Skye (same way as Simmons was shown to have a crush on a number of guys).  However, in S1E6 (when Jemma almost dies from the alien virus), I think it was shown quite well that Fitz realized that what he felt for Jemma is something more visceral than whatever crush he had on Skye (and in the beginning of the episode he's still shown to do the hilariously awkward flirting with her). After that he pulls back completely, and though he maintains a friendly banter with Sky (e.g. in TRACKS), he is not actively pursuing her anymore. I think it is also clear for everyone that Fitz would have made the same sacrfice even if they were "just friends" - in fact, he does pretty recklessly go into the quarantine with Simmons.

 

I do agree with you that the dialogue at the end of S2 was clunky (indeed the whole scene with Bobbi/Hunter inspiring both May and Jemma at the same time to reach out is a bit heavy handed for my taste). I do buy however that Jemma has been trying to sort through her feelings since the end of S1, and there was obviously a lot to go through: she was obviously concerned about Fitz's recovery, probably some guilt, a lot of anger / hatred towards Ward. For a long time, she tries to just get back to whatever relationship they had before the brain damage, but as S2 progresses, she realizes that it will not be possible, as Fitz has changed, she has changed, and their whole dynamic changed. So she has to figure out also if she loves this new, changed Fitz.

 

While I would have been perfectly happy if they kept the FitzSimmons relationship as a deep, platonic friendship; transitioning it into an also romantic relationship makes also complete sense to me. While it is true that they were BFF for years, they are not static. They met very young (at 16), in a place where they were the youngest by far and had no age-appropriate peers other than each other. This probably was a bit easier for Simmons (girls mature usually faster) than for Fitz (he is physically a young boy compared to the people around him), though probably explains why they are both hilariously bad at flirting.

So in this time that they have been together, they changed a lot - they both grew up a lot during S2. So even if they were not attracted to each other when they were 16, they could very well be attracted when they are 20 somethings. Also, they may have more confidence in themselves and each other to be able to handle a romantic relationship emotionally, without mucking up their friendship and professional relationship, which they both clearly put above anything else.

[Lobsel Vith]

13 hours ago, MetaM said:

I think this part was set up quite well. Fitz clearly had a crush on Skye (same way as Simmons was shown to have a crush on a number of guys).  However, in S1E6 (when Jemma almost dies from the alien virus), I think it was shown quite well that Fitz realized that what he felt for Jemma is something more visceral than whatever crush he had on Skye (and in the beginning of the episode he's still shown to do the hilariously awkward flirting with her). After that he pulls back completely, and though he maintains a friendly banter with Sky (e.g. in TRACKS), he is not actively pursuing her anymore. I think it is also clear for everyone that Fitz would have made the same sacrfice even if they were "just friends" - in fact, he does pretty recklessly go into the quarantine with Simmons.

Jemma contracted a virus in Episode 6, F.Z.Z.T. (in Episode 16, the team was trying to track down the Clairvoyant). And this would've been at the time frame where the actors said that they were playing their scenes as pretty much brother and sister, since the brothers in Ocean's Eleven was the inspiration for the two characters by the creators (clearly, the relationship changed due to fan response).

I'd say Fitz's physical demeanor suggests he seems a bit miffed in T.R.A.C.K.S. that Skye simply gave him a peck on the cheek as his 'pretend girlfriend'. And I'm not suggesting Fitz wouldn't have made the sacrifice for Simmons if they were just friends - I'm saying it comes across like the writers rushed Fitz having an attraction for Simmons during the final Season One episodes (particularly where he shows an obvious jealousy towards Trip) simply to give that scene 'weight' by saying he feels that she's 'more than a friend' to him, which I don't think was necessary. In short, I agree that Fitz would have made the sacrifice for a friend (which is why I disagree with how the writers handled it).

Also, I don't feel like Fitz ever really pursued Skye - he seemed attracted to her, and kind of awkward at times, but he never really pursues her the way that Skye tries to connect with Ward at different times during Season One (where she's clearly taking the initiative).

13 hours ago, MetaM said:

I do agree with you that the dialogue at the end of S2 was clunky (indeed the whole scene with Bobbi/Hunter inspiring both May and Jemma at the same time to reach out is a bit heavy handed for my taste). I do buy however that Jemma has been trying to sort through her feelings since the end of S1, and there was obviously a lot to go through: she was obviously concerned about Fitz's recovery, probably some guilt, a lot of anger / hatred towards Ward. For a long time, she tries to just get back to whatever relationship they had before the brain damage, but as S2 progresses, she realizes that it will not be possible, as Fitz has changed, she has changed, and their whole dynamic changed. So she has to figure out also if she loves this new, changed Fitz.

My issue is that, while you can try to put context into Simmons' final words to Fitz in the final episode of Season Two, it's never really explored during Season 2. That's why I would have preferred a buildup for the two of them towards a relationship rather than this 'angst for the sake of angst' route that the writers took. It feels like the writers are taking a shortcut - similar to Simmons being upset about Trip's death even though the writers never really explored their friendship (or potential romance) during Season 2A, so you only really get it if you've seen the Season One episodes between the two of them where it was clear that there was some mutual attraction between the two of them. Of course, YMMV. And the shortcut annoys me because it seems as if the writers want to give Fitz 'a reason' to want to rescue Simmons when she disappears because of the monolith, as if he wouldn't rescue her if they were simply friends.

13 hours ago, MetaM said:

While I would have been perfectly happy if they kept the FitzSimmons relationship as a deep, platonic friendship; transitioning it into an also romantic relationship makes also complete sense to me. While it is true that they were BFF for years, they are not static. They met very young (at 16), in a place where they were the youngest by far and had no age-appropriate peers other than each other. This probably was a bit easier for Simmons (girls mature usually faster) than for Fitz (he is physically a young boy compared to the people around him), though probably explains why they are both hilariously bad at flirting.

I agree with you that I would have been fine if they kept them as friends, but for me, it's the matter of how that transition was handled that's my issue. And it's odd that their changes as people are never really properly handled when they confess their feelings to each other - Fitz's declares his love for Simmons at the end of Season One, but both Simmons and he change quite a bit in Season Two, yet that's not properly addressed to explain if they would want to pursue a romance given that they're not the same people they were in Season One. That's why I said I would have preferred a more long-term approach instead of the canonical approach that I feel was rushed, and then awkwardly handled in Seasons 2 and 3 (particularly in 3B where they instantly move from 'friends' to lovers quite quickly).

Rather than angst, I would've liked to see Fitz and Simmons deal with the changes, and their love would have more meaning if they feel in love with one another as they people they become, rather than the 'will they? won't they?' that the writers approached to provide angst in lieu of a proper storyline (as is the case with Simmons' feelings for Will, which are swept aside, as well as any potential ramifications of Fitz feeling like the consolation prize, so it effectively becomes meaningless).

13 hours ago, MetaM said:

So in this time that they have been together, they changed a lot - they both grew up a lot during S2. So even if they were not attracted to each other when they were 16, they could very well be attracted when they are 20 somethings. Also, they may have more confidence in themselves and each other to be able to handle a romantic relationship emotionally, without mucking up their friendship and professional relationship, which they both clearly put above anything else.

Personally, that's not really my experience - if I'm not attracted to someone, that doesn't really change with time. The trope of a woman changing her mind about a man she's expressly said she isn't romantically interested in (because he does something noble) is also something that I know rubs some folks the wrong way.

I get what you're saying, though, and while we do disagree, I appreciate you taking the time to explain why you don't view it the same way that I do.

[TVSpectator]

On 9/13/2017 at 5:22 PM, Lobsel Vith said:

I do find it odd that they decided to entirely drop Fitz's attraction to Skye, say that he loves Simmons all of a sudden, but then create a number of hurdles to keep them apart as if they were afraid of putting them together.

1

Meh, I never really picked up on the whole Fizt=Skye ship nor really actual given a carp about them (or really any other ship on this show because I have come to the idea that the writers just throw something together and see if it just sticks) but the way they portray the Fitz and Simmons relationship does kind of just upset me a little, as of now. The main thing about Fitz's and Simmons' characters are that they are basically THE SAME, and honestly, they (to me) just don't jive well when it comes to romance. They were better as friends and why couldn't they stay friends is probably because AoS has taken the easy and predictable route for this TV relationship. I mean in Season 1 and even before Fitz told Skye that he was "secretly in love with Simmons" there was literally no hint of this secret "love" that Fizt harbors for Simmons and it does come out of thin air. It was like one day Fitz just woke and said, "I love Simmons". Which is kind of weird because that is how I see the whole, Coulson/May relationship. Just one side of that relationship somehow just comes out of the blue with "I love ______" and that it is it. Then it becomes about pursuing this "love" and really then never fully develop anything on the screen. No banter, no flirt by BOTH sides, sides, etc... 

Also to point out IF Fitz somehow likes Simmons and/or loves her so much then way wait until being at the bottom of an ocean? I mean he had plenty of time before the finale to just talk to Simmons about his feelings. Why did he wait so long and why didn't just talk to her? If he was supposedly Simmons best friend then surely he could've talked to hear about this issues. I mean they were supposedly friends for (at least) a decade before joining Coulson so the idea that he was having "cold feet" telling her sounds a bit off, at least to me.

And to make matters even worse they chose one of the worst troupes that I hate the most- the Will They?/Won't They? troupe for Fitz and Simmons.  And I hate this because it always ends with the same ending- they always end up together, it's not even a choice anymore because whenever I see this trope come up it always ends the same; Dude who really likes girl, but girl either only like him as a friend and/or doesn't actually like him, somehow gets the girl. But then sometimes, after they hook up, they even try to portray the relationship as this giant epic love story and that they are actual soul mates, etc.... Which is annoying because like you said above there wasn't any hint of this BEFORE they even started this. And they never really took the time to develop it on screen either. What they did with Simmons was, In my opinion, a bit worse for her because they gave her someone else (actually if you count Trip then she actually loses not one BUT two love interests and ends up settling with a man that she was unsure about even on the night she first slept with him). 

Overall,  if they actually wanted to start a relationship then I thought that it would've been better if they just you know have them hooked up in Season 1 instead of just dragging it out for like 3 1/2 seasons (and have Simmons lose two love interests as well). 

 

Quote

And there's the whole Will plot, as you pointed out, which simply keeps the two of them apart (and even then they decide to 'start fresh' so the implications of Will are pretty much swept under the rug, so it kind of becomes meaningless)

 

Yeah, Will was pointless to even in the episode when they introduced him because you knew that he didn't make it back with Simmons. I mean it would've worked better if 4,722 Hours wasn't a flashback but instead, something that was happening in real time (as in, happening concurrently with what was going on back at Earth. Instead of just a flashback to "fill in those missing gaps). 

To get back to the actual "love story" it was pointless and very confusing. First, it was PTSD then it was Will and then she just totally (for some reason) got over his death and decided to sleep with Fitz. Everything else- from her uncertainty and unease to even start a romantic relationship with Fitz to her feelings about Will all just got swept under the rug. Hell, I won't be surprised if the writers would try to retcon it away- because that will be a big "screw you" to anyone who actually liked the episode. 

Overall, what made me really mad about that whole thing was that even before we found out that Will was actually dead was that they were SO pushing for Fitz and Simmons to get together. Even when Simmons was dealing with (I guess it was PTSD) PTSD it was still all about that supposed date that Fitz was so intent on taking Simmons on. Then they had Hunter suggest to Fitz that they should just leave Will on that planet (Hunter compared it to "buying your girlfriend's ex a ticket...." which it is not. It's abandoning someone on an alien planet. something that we learn that Hydra does. Fucking Hydra that became the show's go-to analogy for Nazism in America in Season 4). Then they decided that after Simmons was pushing to get Will back, and after saying that she loves Will to Fitz, she told Fitz (in a later episode) that she wanted to leave Will on that planet because of IT (and this still makes me angry). Not to mention that the whole "we gotta get Will back" became a Fitz thing (even though Simmons just decided out-of-the-blue to abandon the man she claimed to love on an alien planet with a space monster), for no other reason but just to "prove" that he is a really nice guy that deserved to have Simmons, and it became  Fitz wanting to bring Will back??

I mean what was the point of even given up on trying to recuse Will after not trying anything? Or what was the point of just given up on trying to get back home- after one try while she was on that planet? Why hook up with Will? What the hell was the point of everything? It was pointless because nothing became of it and like you said, everything was eventually just pushed under the rug and by now it is just forgotten about and it will probably be retconned away- like how Hunter is now returning to the show after the show telling us that he will never be able to come back and even to work in any US intelligence agency ever. Or that SHIELD will never become public- until like years after Season 3. 

 

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Yeah, the two day PTSD, the apparent week in not telling anyone about Will, and the inconsistency in how it's approached during this arc felt so strange - it's like the writers weren't on the same page from episode to episode, and that shouldn't have been the case for a single arc.

The whole thing was poorly handled overall. I'm not the biggest fan of angst for the sake of angst. If they didn't want to pair them together until Season 3, why not pair them with other people until then (as giving Simmons and Trip some story coverage might have better conveyed why she's upset at his loss in Season 2B instead of relying on fans remembering their brief scenes together in Season 1B)? It's not like the shippers were going to be happy about Simmons leaving Fitz during his brain injury, Simmons and Fitz fighting about Skye's Inhuman status (which was also pretty much swept under the rug because they had a common enemy in Gonzalez's S.H.I.E.L.D.), or Simmons' feelings for Will, so the writers thought process baffles me.

1

In my opinion, it was poorly handled (and so was her supposedly PTSD) and it seemed like it would've been better if they just told a better coherent love story. Have both of them flirt with each other, have both of them actually talking to each other,  no hiding true feelings from the other, no telling that they love the other at the worst possible time to do it, have no other potential love interests,  have them hook up early on, etc.... Instead, we got, in my opinion, the worst possible way to tell ANY love story- a will they?/won't they? love story. And end the end TWO characters died and one of those characters died saving her life, Simmons was left miserable after both deaths, and then she just suddenly did a 180 and wanted to sleep with Fitz as fast as possible, and then right before hooking up she stated that she was unsure of whether or not she wanted to start the relationship, and then finally slept with Fitz. 

 

19 hours ago, MetaM said:

While I would have been perfectly happy if they kept the FitzSimmons relationship as a deep, platonic friendship; transitioning it into an also romantic relationship makes also complete sense to me. While it is true that they were BFF for years, they are not static. They met very young (at 16), in a place where they were the youngest by far and had no age-appropriate peers other than each other. This probably was a bit easier for Simmons (girls mature usually faster) than for Fitz (he is physically a young boy compared to the people around him), though probably explains why they are both hilariously bad at flirting.

So in this time that they have been together, they changed a lot - they both grew up a lot during S2. So even if they were not attracted to each other when they were 16, they could very well be attracted when they are 20 somethings. Also, they may have more confidence in themselves and each other to be able to handle a romantic relationship emotionally, without mucking up their friendship and professional relationship, which they both clearly put above anything else.

2

The idea of just knowing someone for a decade doesn't automatically end up as, "we are soul mates...." kind of thing. In my experience, it never really works out. I mean I have seen people who were friends for years, hook up and then after a while, they break up. So, it's not a 100% OMG this is so going to work out......

Also, the excuse of "well they did know each other for a really long time" really doesn't explain the big jarring portrays in this so-called love story. I mean when did Simmons wanted to date Fitz, as in not a vague way, before Season 3? It seemed like they failed to show what Simmons wanted or even when did Fitz start to "fall in love" with Simmons?  

Edited September 16, 2017 by TVSpectator
To add a few more response

[Miles]

8 hours ago, Lobsel Vith said:

Except Fitz regained his senses and proceeded to torture the inhibitor out of Daisy, and then he defended his actions, to the point of blaming Daisy for what he did.

Because you just "regain your senses" in 5 seconds after just having had visual and auditory hallucinations. Sure.

 

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Then he worked with Simmons and Yo-yo to escape his cell, and endangered the whole of humanity by giving in to Ruby after the Pod was damaged.

As if Daisy going on her little save Coulson pet project didn't endanger the whole of humanity. The whole team should have worked on getting that infusion machine destroyed. If they did, this season would already be over.

[Lobsel Vith]

5 hours ago, Miles said:

Because you just "regain your senses" in 5 seconds after just having had visual and auditory hallucinations. Sure.

We literally saw the scene where Fitz regained control after Simmons got through to him (it's like complaining about the logic of Ward jumping out of a plane to save Simmons without any eye protection - it doesn't match real life, but it's what we saw on this fictional show). We've also seen the scenes where Fitz blamed Daisy for what he did, where he apologized to Mack (only when it was clear Mack wanted to leave his presence) and quickly blamed everyone but himself for actions that he is fully culpable for.

5 hours ago, Miles said:

As if Daisy going on her little save Coulson pet project didn't endanger the whole of humanity. 

Fitz and Simmons openly acknowledge that they had given Ruby the power to destroy the world - it's not a matter for debate. Trying to pretend that Daisy trying to save Coulson's life is just as bad is ridiculous and nonsensical.

5 hours ago, Miles said:

The whole team should have worked on getting that infusion machine destroyed. If they did, this season would already be over.

Why, exactly? Because the man who endangered the lives of everyone on the base with his robots and who tortured Daisy guessed that the Pod might be in one of several locations (and only managed to find the right one by the luck of Plot Convenience)? Simmons could have done what she was ordered to do and gotten intel from Fitz, and teams could have been sent after Daisy got back with Coulson. Instead, Simmons and Fitz thought they knew better than everyone else, and eventually gave in to Ruby because they were willing to sacrifice the world. It's not like the Superior and his LMD army would have given Ruby what she wanted, anyway.

[Gigi2022]

I am very confused with the episodes changing timelines. How did Fitz die and next get in the Kriochamber? He was fine with Enoch to make away to find Gemma in the future. I have watched all of the episodes.

[Raja]

32 minutes ago, Gigi2022 said:

I am very confused with the episodes changing timelines. How did Fitz die and next get in the Kriochamber? He was fine with Enoch to make away to find Gemma in the future. I have watched all of the episodes.

In the time loops to the future Fitz and Enoch were going to the future in the slow way. That season 6 Fitz was another looper in transit to the future when Daisy finally broke the loop at the end of season 5. A Fitz that went before that last loop came back via the monolith and Enoch's future sacrifice to die in Chicago.

[Llywela]

10 hours ago, Gigi2022 said:

I am very confused with the episodes changing timelines. How did Fitz die and next get in the Kriochamber? He was fine with Enoch to make away to find Gemma in the future. I have watched all of the episodes.

Time travel! After the team come back from the future, they change the timeline so that there are, in effect, two Fitzes.

It goes like this: Fitz is left behind when the team are sent to the future. He works with Enoch to take himself to the future to meet them, the long way - by going into cryogenic suspension. When he eventually rejoins the others, he returns to the past with them - but arrives after his previous self had left, so that from that point on there are, essentially, two Fitzes: the younger Fitz still out in space in cryogenic suspension, who hasn't reached the others yet, and the slightly older Fitz who already lived through that and came back from the future. In the original timeline, Earth is destroyed and the older, awake Fitz dies at some point after his and Jemma's daughter is born, while the other is still sleeping out in space waiting for Enoch to wake him up once they get to the point in the future the others were taken to.

However, that timeline is changed in the S5 finale. Earth is saved - and in this new timeline, Fitz dies early, his death is part of the proof of the timeline changing, because that didn't happen in the original timeline. However, the other Fitz, the slightly younger Fitz who hasn't reached the future yet, is still out there in space in cryogenic suspension waiting to be woken up, not knowing that the future has already been changed. So that is the Fitz that Jemma and the others go off in search of.

And that Fitz gets woken up early anyway, because the changed timeline places him in danger, forcing Enoch to wake him early, and triggering their adventures through the early episodes of S6.

tl;dr - it's because of wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey!

[swanpride]

Frankly, the only part where they dropped the ball is the one in which he got woken up earlier...it was never quite clear what caused that change, at least not to me. 

[Llywela]

3 hours ago, swanpride said:

Frankly, the only part where they dropped the ball is the one in which he got woken up earlier...it was never quite clear what caused that change, at least not to me. 

I figured it was a casualty of the altered timeline. In the original timeline, the Kree took over that whole sector of space after Earth got blown apart, and they'd have protected their territory, kept everyone else away. But in the new timeline, Earth wasn't blown up and the Kree never moved in, leaving the sector wide open to any other space farers who happened past. One of those space farers discovered Enoch's ship and attacked, so Enoch woke Fitz early so they could escape - always planning to get him back into cryo asap since they did not know that the timeline had already been changed, and did not read the attack as a sign of the altered timeline since they had no way of knowing that this interlude isn't what always happened. The Fitz and Enoch we meet in S6 are both time-looped, neither one of them lived through any of the events of S5 that happened after Fitz went into cryo.

Edited November 17, 2022 by Llywela