S01.E15: The Rock

[HazelEyes4325]

2 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I think Eddie hasn't gotten off easy....at least as much as Delilah has. Delilah's gotten basically no blowback. She got ignored by Regina for less than a full episode and Regina never got to cuss her out. With Eddie, at least they're showing that Katherine's still pissed and hurt by his betrayal, which is way more than Delilah's getting. She gets to still joke around with Gary and call her friends whenever she needs them! But yeah, Eddie is still getting off easier than he should. They also skipped ahead a bunch of months, so that doesn't help (I think they confirmed this past episode that it's been six or seven months since Jon died? Unsure about this part, but it's been at least five months now). 

 

And then Regina apologized to *her* for being mad at her.

2 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Realistically, there'd be no chance of reconciliation with Eddie and Katherine. The only way they could reconcile....way down the road (like, at least a couple of years) is if Delilah talks to Katherine and takes the full blame for the lie, but even then, Eddie did participate and I also don't see Delilah being selfless enough to try to help mend Eddie/Katherine's marriage, even when there's no real chance if she gets involved, and even if Eddie said that he wanted Katherine back and didn't want Delilah anymore. So it would also require a lot of begging, pleading and changed behaviour from Eddie.

So yeah, there's no way this would ever really work in real life. But with this being a television show, they can do whatever the hell they want. Plus, I REALLY loathe Delilah/Eddie so any chance of them never ever getting together works with me, at this point. My biggest fear is that they bring Eddie/Delilah together and they become a couple. That would actually get me to quit this show for good.

1

Well, realistically there would be no chance of Katherine going to dinner at Delilah's only days after learning about the affair, going to Delilah's restaurant's menu tasting, helping Delilah (FOR FREE) with her financial troubles...

I think I'm with you...I'm out if Eddie and Delilah become a thing.  It wouldn't be the first time I've left a show because they've but DG's character in an odious pairing...

[Lady Calypso]

15 minutes ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

Well, realistically there would be no chance of Katherine going to dinner at Delilah's only days after learning about the affair, going to Delilah's restaurant's menu tasting, helping Delilah (FOR FREE) with her financial troubles...

Exactly, but at least Grace Park has played it well. She has Katherine very cautious and clearly not happy with helping Delilah and basically on the verging of punching her out at times. Compare that with Gary sharing a cake with Delilah the day he found out about the affair. 

[alexvillage]

3 hours ago, pinkglove said:

It may be bad writing but not necessarily. If they did intend for Delilah to be narcissistic, they did a decent job.

True. I don't think they tried that though. I do think they want her to be likable but seem to be failing - and this informs me about the men who write the episodes. I think the story would be much more interesting if the audience knew she is actually full blown narcissistic but the friends didn't. It could be one of the million little things that changes with Jon's suicide - the dynamics of the relationships among them all.

[Gothish520]

24 minutes ago, alexvillage said:

True. I don't think they tried that though. I do think they want her to be likable but seem to be failing - and this informs me about the men who write the episodes. I think the story would be much more interesting if the audience knew she is actually full blown narcissistic but the friends didn't. It could be one of the million little things that changes with Jon's suicide - the dynamics of the relationships among them all.

I think it would be interesting if they did decide to turn Delilah more in that direction. Even though I am the resident Delilah apologist, I've never claimed she was perfect, and seeing her get more and more selfish and then realizing (or having someone help her realize) that her behavior is unhealthy could be an interesting development.

That being said, I do not see the character as having full-blown NPD. Being selfish and self-absorbed at times does not make one a narcissist. Delilah clearly cares deeply about her family and friends, and she doesn't pathologically turn other people's feelings back on themselves and try to make everything someone else's fault. I think she has done that with regard to her marriage, but that is not so unusual in a relationship gone bad. And I don't get why Eddie was going to help her with the baby stuff, especially since they are trying to keep their secret. That was a bit of a stretch as far as plot devices go. But although she wondered why he didn't show up, it's not like she threw a temper tantrum and started wailing "what about meeeee?" She handled it just fine. Except for calling Eddie when she should've called Katherine, or texted Eddie to see if Katherine was in a good enough state to take a phone call. Or texted Katherine herself and asked her that question.

So, yeah, calling Eddie after she found out about the accident was a weird choice, but I'm still not ready to throw a diagnosis as serious as NPD at a character who is just trying to figure out where she and her family go from here.

2 hours ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

I think I'm with you...I'm out if Eddie and Delilah become a thing.  It wouldn't be the first time I've left a show because they've but DG's character in an odious pairing...

Ha! 

I loved the show and most of the actors and characters so much that I just went with it, but I agree, that was something else...!

[HazelEyes4325]

4 hours ago, pinkglove said:

It may be bad writing but not necessarily. If they did intend for Delilah to be narcissistic, they did a decent job. I know people almost exactly like her, both men and women. (It's even kind of believable that people are drawn to her, meaning men and just about anyone else who's always ready to rush to her rescue... that happens, too, with this personality type, according to my experience.)

 

I would be thrilled if the intent was always for Delilah to rate high on the narcissism scale!  I've been very uncomfortable with how this show seems to want us to sympathize with her but then makes her so unlikable.  If that was always the intent, which would surprise me because I don't have that much faith in Nash's storytelling right now (for several reasons), I will have a newfound appreciation for this show.

[izabella]

4 hours ago, pinkglove said:

It may be bad writing but not necessarily. If they did intend for Delilah to be narcissistic, they did a decent job. I know people almost exactly like her, both men and women. (It's even kind of believable that people are drawn to her, meaning men and just about anyone else who's always ready to rush to her rescue... that happens, too, with this personality type, according to my experience.)

I am really hoping they are doing a narcissist story line deliberately.  Because those people are out there, and the people who are sucked into the perpetual victim's vortex often don't realize it...until they do.  Then no one believes them when they talk about it...until they are burned themselves.  When a whole group finally sees it, the narcissist has usually already moved on to another group of helpers who think she's just the best and is so put-upon.

[Gothish520]

5 minutes ago, izabella said:

I am really hoping they are doing a narcissist story line deliberately.  Because those people are out there, and the people who are sucked into the perpetual victim's vortex often don't realize it...until they do.  Then no one believes them when they talk about it...until they are burned themselves.  When a whole group finally sees it, the narcissist has usually already moved on to another group of helpers who think she's just the best and is so put-upon.

Oh wow, I'm having flashbacks to a former friend. This describes her personality and behavior perfectly, right down to moving on to another group once the current one sees the light of day. These types are vampires, sucking the life right out of you, and the worst part is, you think that it's your fault because you aren't a good enough friend. I even had her in my wedding party because she just assumed she would be and I didn't have the heart to tell her that I had no intention of asking!

That's why I don't really see Delilah as NPD - she's nowhere near as bad as some that I have known!

[izabella]

19 minutes ago, Gothish520 said:

Oh wow, I'm having flashbacks to a former friend. This describes her personality and behavior perfectly, right down to moving on to another group once the current one sees the light of day. These types are vampires, sucking the life right out of you, and the worst part is, you think that it's your fault because you aren't a good enough friend. I even had her in my wedding party because she just assumed she would be and I didn't have the heart to tell her that I had no intention of asking!

That's why I don't really see Delilah as NPD - she's nowhere near as bad as some that I have known!

Vampire!  Yes!  That is what I called my former friend, too.

I think Delilah is that bad, though.  She went to Katherine - Katherine!!! - to get legal help figuring out her $18M debt AND to solve that problem for her.  That is really way beyond the pale, way beyond.  And she expected Katherine to drop everything to help her instead of slamming the door in her face and buying some champagne to celebrate Delilah's imminent bankruptcy.

[mcgkgm]

Does anyone else think the woman who is assumed to be Barbara Morgan looks like she might be related to Ashley?  I thought that last episode, and then this one I wasn't paying a ton of attention and when I glanced up at the screen while she was lurking in the car, I thought it was Ashley for a second.

[chitowngirl]

8 minutes ago, mcgkgm said:

Does anyone else think the woman who is assumed to be Barbara Morgan looks like she might be related to Ashley?  I thought that last episode, and then this one I wasn't paying a ton of attention and when I glanced up at the screen while she was lurking in the car, I thought it was Ashley for a second.

Ashley doesn’t know who Barbara Morgan is. She was asking around the group to se if they knew.

[Clanstarling]

1 hour ago, chitowngirl said:

Ashley doesn’t know who Barbara Morgan is. She was asking around the group to se if they knew.

To be fair, that doesn't prevent them from being related. Thanks to the DNA tests, a lot of people are finding family they never knew existed. 

Though I don't really think that's the case here.

[Nancybeth]

Does Katherine really believe that Delilah and John -- who had a strained marriage in which at least one partner was cheating and two kids that were into their tween/teen years -- just up and decided to have another baby?  Or that after all that time their birth control failed? That's what I can't figure out.  Nothing about this couple's situation up until the moment John died screams, "Yes, we totally want another kid!" I assume everyone knows it's Eddie's baby but are just kind of looking the other way and letting her get away with saying that it's John's.

[debraran]

1 hour ago, Nancybeth said:

Does Katherine really believe that Delilah and John -- who had a strained marriage in which at least one partner was cheating and two kids that were into their tween/teen years -- just up and decided to have another baby?  Or that after all that time their birth control failed? That's what I can't figure out.  Nothing about this couple's situation up until the moment John died screams, "Yes, we totally want another kid!" I assume everyone knows it's Eddie's baby but are just kind of looking the other way and letting her get away with saying that it's John's.

I think with everything going on, they just are being polite. I don't know what birth control they were using (Jon and Delilah) but it worked for about 10 years or so. To have it fail at 40 or so, it happens but it's TV magic too. I've known women who were trying and got pregnant at 40 but most don't have an easy time. I feel, both men are dark in looks, same height, hair color, I'm sure they feel, no big surprise in that regard. Blood type etc is a different matter. You just shouldn't lie, it's never a good thing.  I'm not even sure it is Eddie's, the timeline on this show makes my head hurt. ; )

A rule in most dramas and "soap like" shows, you can never,ever have a baby that isn't your husband's and have it stay hidden.

The gas station guy (andrew?) if he continues to see Delilah and Sophie sees that and then hears about Eddie, yikes, not what most teens want to know about their moms. Sounds worse than it is maybe but still, not a scenario I would want to be part of.

[HazelEyes4325]

2 hours ago, Nancybeth said:

Does Katherine really believe that Delilah and John -- who had a strained marriage in which at least one partner was cheating and two kids that were into their tween/teen years -- just up and decided to have another baby?  Or that after all that time their birth control failed? That's what I can't figure out.  Nothing about this couple's situation up until the moment John died screams, "Yes, we totally want another kid!" I assume everyone knows it's Eddie's baby but are just kind of looking the other way and letting her get away with saying that it's John's.

This is an example of really, really, really bad story crafting on Nash's part.

Realistically, logically, believably, everyone should be questioning the paternity of that baby.  I mean, everyone is old enough to know basic arithmetic and they knew when Eddie and Delilah were having their affair and how far along Delilah is--that should be enough to put everything into question.  As far as most of them were concerned, Jon and Delilah seemed to have the perfect marriage--the only person who knew that it wasn't at the time was Eddie--so they wouldn't be off their rockers to assume that Delilah was sleeping with two men.

But, no...Delilah says one thing--actually, she says two conflicting things--and everyone believes her.  As has been hashed out ad nauseum in earlier threads, this pregnancy didn't just happen.  Delilah had to make a conscious choice for it to happen, which doesn't fit with the story at all...but the viewers are not supposed to question that.  Just like we aren't supposed to question why no one suspects Eddie might be the father.  And that is a real shortcoming by Nash.

Edited February 20, 2019 by HazelEyes4325

[iwasish]

4 hours ago, debraran said:

I think with everything going on, they just are being polite. I don't know what birth control they were using (Jon and Delilah) but it worked for about 10 years or so. To have it fail at 40 or so, it happens but it's TV magic too. I've known women who were trying and got pregnant at 40 but most don't have an easy time. I feel, both men are dark in looks, same height, hair color, I'm sure they feel, no big surprise in that regard. Blood type etc is a different matter. You just shouldn't lie, it's never a good thing.  I'm not even sure it is Eddie's, the timeline on this show makes my head hurt. ; )

A rule in most dramas and "soap like" shows, you can never,ever have a baby that isn't your husband's and have it stay hidden.

The gas station guy (andrew?) if he continues to see Delilah and Sophie sees that and then hears about Eddie, yikes, not what most teens want to know about their moms. Sounds worse than it is maybe but still, not a scenario I would want to be part of.

Soap like shows... Any baby you have might not be your husband’s and any baby you bring home from the hospital might not be the one you gave birth to. 

[chitowngirl]

And even if you have a paternity test, the results will surely be switched.

[debraran]

Yes, that is true, the poor baby doesn't have a chance. lol   With this baby, it don't see anyone caring about it. The sex is a yawn, what does it matter, it will be an occasional prop if it is born but like a puppy,not used often. (I would like more of Gary's dog though)

I can only see the poor soul used to make Delilah overwhelmed and to hurt others, Katherine, Sophie, friendships that are tentative now.

I guess Jon did his business alone and did well until he had a bad business deal? His home is very nice and he seemed to have a lot of money to travel, etc.  All the immediately deleted files and old "implication" from others, is that all gone now? Are we supposed to forget Nash was having Jon do shady deals and he suddenly spiraled for 2 years? He had no way of knowing back then he would lose deal and all his money. I don't buy guilt over something 20 years ago caught up with him that badly with so many triggers along the way with his kids and family. I thought like many, "abandoned" in his Barbara video meant years ago, maybe he just meant, I killed myself and he "abandoned" her.

I know I'm in the minority, most people care about the baby, will Eddie drink, will Maggie live, Nash knows that, but I'm stuck on the first show and want the pay out. I hope he does something later to help close out all the clues that went no where.

Edited February 20, 2019 by debraran

[HazelEyes4325]

5 hours ago, debraran said:

Yes, that is true, the poor baby doesn't have a chance. lol   With this baby, it don't see anyone caring about it. The sex is a yawn, what does it matter, it will be an occasional prop if it is born but like a puppy,not used often. (I would like more of Gary's dog though)

2

I actually think we get more of Colin than we do of Sophie or Danny (not that I'm complaining, I'm always up for cute dogs.)

But, yeah, this show has three kids and only one is used as more than a prop.  At least there is a reason when Theo is off-screen.  I guess Sophie and Danny just cease to exist when Delilah doesn't think about them--which is probably accurate in Delilah's mind.  So, this baby will just be one more thing to be forgotten about.

However, if a show can't effectively use the kids that it has (think Parenthood which did this well), it has no business adding in babies.

[debraran]

Strange clip on Facebook with mystery woman. One preview has her in house meeting Delilah and this one has Sophie letting her in to leave note for her mother. Very strange plot line they are doing and Sophie should know better.  She might like to talk to a total stranger about being a widow. Please.

Edited February 20, 2019 by debraran

[Guest]

1 hour ago, debraran said:

Strange clip on Facebook with mystery woman. One preview has her in house meeting Delilah and this one has Sophie letting her in to leave note for her mother. Very strange plot line they are doing and Sophie should know better.  She might like to talk to a total stranger about being a widow. Please.

I guess with Ashley gone they needed someone new to sneak around and act suspicious. There’s only 2 episodes left and they are still going to draw this stupid mystery out. I just don’t care anymore and want them to get to the damn point. 

[debraran]

39 minutes ago, Dani said:

I guess with Ashley gone they needed someone new to sneak around and act suspicious. There’s only 2 episodes left and they are still going to draw this stupid mystery out. I just don’t care anymore and want them to get to the damn point. 

I know, it's almost creepy. For pete's sake, Jon was around all this time and she stayed in her apartment. I guess 7 months later, she decides to spy? I just didn't get the promo for her daughter showing her in with Mom home and then this one with her letting her in, without her being there and possibly leaving a note.

I have no clue what writers are doing but teens don't act like this and no one in 2019 should be that trusting especially in that affluent home.  Maybe it is Sophie who looks into it more. I think it will be worse than the crockpot, re This Is Us if he drags it out any more. At least Nash made sure Jon changed the smoke detector, hopefully he doesn't copy the fire. 😬

The envelope she's holding says Barbara Morgan, looks like it was mailed. One thing I know, that name will be hated by the seasons end : )

Edited February 20, 2019 by debraran

[seacliffsal]

I've been thinking about Delilah's call to Eddie during which she told him to give Katherine her regards (no, I DO have a life-I promise!).  I think that Delilah did this not only to remind Eddie that he needs to be there for her (Delilah [car seat]), but also to rub some salt in the wound of Eddie and Katherine's relationship by inserting herself into their discussion/lives via the reminder that she and Eddie have a relationship whether currently intimate or not. It also reminds Katherine that she is basically nothing to Delilah even after saving her financial well being.  Yes, you saved my family's wealth, but you're not worth my time in calling you after your accident... But, I call your estranged husband whenever I feel like it...

[HazelEyes4325]

1 hour ago, seacliffsal said:

I've been thinking about Delilah's call to Eddie during which she told him to give Katherine her regards (no, I DO have a life-I promise!).  I think that Delilah did this not only to remind Eddie that he needs to be there for her (Delilah [car seat]), but also to rub some salt in the wound of Eddie and Katherine's relationship by inserting herself into their discussion/lives via the reminder that she and Eddie have a relationship whether currently intimate or not. It also reminds Katherine that she is basically nothing to Delilah even after saving her financial well being.  Yes, you saved my family's wealth, but you're not worth my time in calling you after your accident... But, I call your estranged husband whenever I feel like it...

I completely agree with this and I will take it one step farther.  I don't believe that Delilah has any desire to have Eddie back, but she wants to make sure that Eddie is pining for her.  

You're right that Katherine means nothing to her--if Katherine had meant anything to her 9-12 months earlier, she wouldn't have slept with Katherine's husband.  Now that Katherine has cleaned up Delilah's financial mess, she's no longer of any use to Delilah.  With Delilah, it is always about what the other person will do for HER.  Gary will lasso the freaking moon for her and Rome and Regina are always there for her, so they stay in her good graces.  But as soon as soon as they cross her, they're out--Regina had the audacity to get mad at Delilah because Delilah cheated on her now-dead husband and it wasn't until Regina apologized for being angry that she was allowed back into Delilah's life.