The Waltons - General Discussion

[Tippi]

My family on both sides come from that neck of the woods--Nelson County, VA.  I couldn't believe when I was a teenager that a bigtime TV show was set in the "mountains" (this is how we have always referred to it) during the time my parents would have been teenagers.  The Patricia Neal movie was much more like what life was like there--alot of hard work and not much in the way of material goods.  A house like what was shown in the TV series would have been for the rich folks.  The Hamner accent is so unique to that area.  About would be pronounced Aboat.  I'd heard talk that this accent is more like what the English settlers would have sounded like, but who knows for sure.  The mountains on the TV show don't look like the Virginia Blue Ridge--the trees and mountain shapes are different, and from a distance the Blue Ridge is indeed blue!

There was some discussion here about John Boy calling his parents Mama and Daddy.  I think this probably goes back generations in that area.  That is what my parents called their parents, and what my brother and sisters called ours.  When we speak of our parents to each other, it is always Mama did this or Daddy did that.  To say anything else would not sound natural.  Also, like on the Andy Griffith show "Aint Bea" that is what we called our aunts as well. 

World War 2 did really result in an exodus from the mountains.  Many of the men did go into the services, and after they war they stayed in the Tidewater area, working at Newport News Shipbuilding or for the government.

[Zella]

2 hours ago, Tippi said:

There was some discussion here about John Boy calling his parents Mama and Daddy.  I think this probably goes back generations in that area.  That is what my parents called their parents, and what my brother and sisters called ours.  When we speak of our parents to each other, it is always Mama did this or Daddy did that.  To say anything else would not sound natural.  Also, like on the Andy Griffith show "Aint Bea" that is what we called our aunts as well. 

Yeah that "aboat" accent is not what I hear from my family in Yancey and Madison County, NC, but Mama and Daddy is, as is the pronunciation of aunt as aint. I'm in my 30s and still call my dad Daddy. One thing that does sound a bit odd to me is them calling John's parents Grandma and Grandpa. Younger generations in my family, like me, use Granny and Papa, but my own grandparents and their generation have always used Pap and Ma. It's on both sides of the family, so I don't think it is a quirk unique to one family. But of course it may have more regional variance than I am aware of. 

[Blergh]

I think by the time the show ended, they should have just called it 'Almost No Waltons Left'.

[LadyIrony]

2 hours ago, Blergh said:

I think by the time the show ended, they should have just called it 'Almost No Waltons Left'.

Starring the rest of the kids you never really cared about and the co stars who have now been moved up in the credits..

[Zella]

3 hours ago, Blergh said:

I think by the time the show ended, they should have just called it 'Almost No Waltons Left'.

"And Then There Were Some"

[Blergh]

10 hours ago, LadyIrony said:

Starring the rest of the kids you never really cared about and the co stars who have now been moved up in the credits..

It's hard to believe that the late Mr. Hamner actually FIRED Mr. Waite (the last mature parental vestige) for the purpose of using the remaining cast to spin off into a 'Young Waltons' series. By that point they collectively were like the teenage Beaver being mortified over hopping around in public in. .. a BUNNY SUIT!

[andromeda331]

17 hours ago, Blergh said:

It's hard to believe that the late Mr. Hamner actually FIRED Mr. Waite (the last mature parental vestige) for the purpose of using the remaining cast to spin off into a 'Young Waltons' series. By that point they collectively were like the teenage Beaver being mortified over hopping around in public in. .. a BUNNY SUIT!

So do I. How could he do that to Mr. Waite? There was no way Young Waltons was going to work. That was half the problem of the later seasons. Very few original characters and young Waltons no one cared about.

[Egg McMuffin]

In Earl Hamner’s defense, he was trying to keep the show going to keep the rest of the cast and crew employed - there were probably over 100 people working on that show. And when a show (or business) starts to fail, people get desperate to fix it and don’t always make the wisest moves.

Most of you know that “The Homecoming” was never meant to be an actual TV series pilot. It was intended as a one-off special. Had it been a true pilot, some of the casting would have been different. For example, Patricia Neal wouldn’t have been cast because CBS felt like her health might interfere with a series, and Edgar Bergen wouldn’t have been cast because he wasn’t interested in doing a series. I also wonder if they would have made different casting choices for the kids (other than Richard Thomas). I understand the younger siblings were cast quickly and cheaply and perhaps if they knew at the time that those kids would be doing a series, they would have done some things differently.

[Tippi]

Wasn't there a movie made in the 1960s about the Walton/Hamner family?  I want to say it was Spencer's Mountain and was not set in Virginia.  I've never seen it, but I think I've seen the description of it as I channel surf.

Among some other very fine performances from the adults in the cast, Richard Thomas was one of the best portrayals on TV of a scholarly, sensitive young man. 

Also of possible interest, Earl Hamner wrote some good episodes of Twilight Zone.  I remember being super scared of Jess Belle which involved love potions and witches.

[Lisa418722]

44 minutes ago, Tippi said:

Also of possible interest, Earl Hamner wrote some good episodes of Twilight Zone.  I remember being super scared of Jess Belle which involved love potions and witches.

Earl Hamner wrote my favorite episode of Twilight Zone, "The Hunt."  Hyder and Rachel Simpson were the precursor for Zeb and Esther Walton.  

[Egg McMuffin]

4 hours ago, Tippi said:

Wasn't there a movie made in the 1960s about the Walton/Hamner family?  I want to say it was Spencer's Mountain and was not set in Virginia.  I've never seen it, but I think I've seen the description of it as I channel surf.

Yes. It was called Spencer’s Mountain, based on Earl Hamner’s book of the same name. They moved the setting to the present day (then 1963) Wyoming, instead of the 1930s Virginia. Henry Fonda and Maureen O’Hara were the parents, and James MacArthur played the John Boy role (called Clay Boy). I didn’t really like it. I thought Fonda was corny, and O’Hara (who is generally one of my favorites) came off a shrewish.

When Hamner wanted to adapt his novel “The Homecoming”, the sequel to Spencer’s Mountain,  to the small screen, he had to change all the names of all the characters. Warner Bros, which made Spencer’s Mountain, held the rights to make a true sequel to the movie and the name “Spencer”. Warner Bros, through its acquisition of Lorimar, now owns “The Waltons”, too.

[methodwriter85]

10 hours ago, Egg McMuffin said:

In Earl Hamner’s defense, he was trying to keep the show going to keep the rest of the cast and crew employed - there were probably over 100 people working on that show. And when a show (or business) starts to fail, people get desperate to fix it and don’t always make the wisest moves.

Most of you know that “The Homecoming” was never meant to be an actual TV series pilot. It was intended as a one-off special. Had it been a true pilot, some of the casting would have been different. For example, Patricia Neal wouldn’t have been cast because CBS felt like her health might interfere with a series, and Edgar Bergen wouldn’t have been cast because he wasn’t interested in doing a series. I also wonder if they would have made different casting choices for the kids (other than Richard Thomas). I understand the younger siblings were cast quickly and cheaply and perhaps if they knew at the time that those kids would be doing a series, they would have done some things differently.

A couple of people have noted that the remake Waltons movie tended to have overall better acting from the kids, and I think it's because they do have it in mind to turn the series into a television series. Things are super-up in the air through because of the sale of the CW, so that's probably why they went with another t.v. movie instead of a series.

You can tell they know they have something with Marchelle LeBlanc (Mary Ellen) because of Mary Ellen's expanded role in the t.v. movie remake. That girl is a star with loads of charisma.

Edited July 1, 2022 by methodwriter85

[LadyIrony]

On 6/30/2022 at 11:15 AM, Blergh said:

It's hard to believe that the late Mr. Hamner actually FIRED Mr. Waite (the last mature parental vestige) for the purpose of using the remaining cast to spin off into a 'Young Waltons' series. By that point they collectively were like the teenage Beaver being mortified over hopping around in public in. .. a BUNNY SUIT!

On 7/1/2022 at 4:43 AM, andromeda331 said:

So do I. How could he do that to Mr. Waite? There was no way Young Waltons was going to work. That was half the problem of the later seasons. Very few original characters and young Waltons no one cared about.

On 7/1/2022 at 5:35 AM, Egg McMuffin said:

In Earl Hamner’s defense, he was trying to keep the show going to keep the rest of the cast and crew employed - there were probably over 100 people working on that show. And when a show (or business) starts to fail, people get desperate to fix it and don’t always make the wisest moves.

Most of you know that “The Homecoming” was never meant to be an actual TV series pilot. It was intended as a one-off special. Had it been a true pilot, some of the casting would have been different. For example, Patricia Neal wouldn’t have been cast because CBS felt like her health might interfere with a series, and Edgar Bergen wouldn’t have been cast because he wasn’t interested in doing a series. I also wonder if they would have made different casting choices for the kids (other than Richard Thomas). I understand the younger siblings were cast quickly and cheaply and perhaps if they knew at the time that those kids would be doing a series, they would have done some things differently.

The show had run it's course before that anyway. Ellen Corby having a stroke, Michael Learned being away for the show for a while, Richard Thomas leaving. Waite was the final link to any kind of structure but I don't think him staying would have made a big difference. 

I'd say if they knew in advance that the show was going to last as long as it did they might have invested in some acting lessons for the younger cast members. Richard Thomas managed to negotiate a higher pay than Waite and Learned from the start so it would have been obvious that he was ambitious and would probably eventually want to go onto something else. 

Easy of course with the benefit of hindsight. 

I think a more interesting spin off would have been seeing John Boy establish his writing career. Dealing with the big city and a completely new world. They only glossed over some of that in the show. They side stepped or inadvertently avoided exploring a lot of potentially interesting story lines in the show. 

As previously discussed the boys war experiences were only given light treatment. 

On 7/1/2022 at 7:47 AM, Tippi said:

Wasn't there a movie made in the 1960s about the Walton/Hamner family?  I want to say it was Spencer's Mountain and was not set in Virginia.  I've never seen it, but I think I've seen the description of it as I channel surf.

Among some other very fine performances from the adults in the cast, Richard Thomas was one of the best portrayals on TV of a scholarly, sensitive young man. 

Also of possible interest, Earl Hamner wrote some good episodes of Twilight Zone.  I remember being super scared of Jess Belle which involved love potions and witches.

Yep Spencer's Mountain it is on my watch list. 

Earl Hamner also created Falcon Crest  TV series,

17 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

A couple of people have noted that the remake Waltons movie tended to have overall better acting from the kids, and I think it's because they do have it in mind to turn the series into a television series. Things are super-up in the air through because of the sale of the CW, so that's probably why they went with another t.v. movie instead of a series.

You can tell they know they have something with Marchelle LeBlanc (Mary Ellen) because of Mary Ellen's expanded role in the t.v. movie remake. That girl is a star with loads of charisma.

She's also more feminine and prettier than Judy Norton who I always thought was a little too harsh looking and acting for a character that is meant to be attractive and guys swoon over. 

[Zella]

1 hour ago, LadyIrony said:

acting for a character that is meant to be attractive and guys swoon over. 

I think with a more talented and charismatic performer, Mary Ellen would have been charmingly fiery. Not that I myself am particularly charming or captivating, but one of my friends once told me my brashness was part of my charm. It's one of the best compliments I've ever received, and I think some variation of that was probably the vibe they were aiming for in the 70s show, but I tended to find her overbearing because of Norton's delivery. Instead of coming across as strong and outspoken, she just seemed like a bitchy stick in the mud. 

Edited July 2, 2022 by Zella

[methodwriter85]

1 hour ago, Zella said:

I think with a more talented and charismatic performer, Mary Ellen would have been charmingly fiery. Not that I myself am particularly charming or captivating, but one of my friends once told me my brashness was part of my charm. It's one of the best compliments I've ever received, and I think some variation of that was probably the vibe they were aiming for in the 70s show, but I tended to find her overbearing because of Norton's delivery. Instead of coming across as strong and outspoken, she just seemed like a bitchy stick in the mud. 

MacKenzie Phillips probably could have done that version of Mary Ellen well, except, you know, her problems.

Quote

I'd say if they knew in advance that the show was going to last as long as it did they might have invested in some acting lessons for the younger cast members.

In Judy Norton's talks with Mary McDonough, Mary pretty much admitted that there was zero to none coaching in the scene where she cries for the first time. When they realized that she could cry, all she did was cry. (Later on, kiss and cry when they decided she was "the pretty one.") 

Edited July 2, 2022 by methodwriter85

[LadyIrony]

10 hours ago, Zella said:

I think with a more talented and charismatic performer, Mary Ellen would have been charmingly fiery. Not that I myself am particularly charming or captivating, but one of my friends once told me my brashness was part of my charm. It's one of the best compliments I've ever received, and I think some variation of that was probably the vibe they were aiming for in the 70s show, but I tended to find her overbearing because of Norton's delivery. Instead of coming across as strong and outspoken, she just seemed like a bitchy stick in the mud. 

It definitely takes some balance which Judy or the Producers lacked. 

Physically speaking Judy has a harsh kind of face and walks in a rather heavy or ungraceful manner. Then as you say her delivery is also bitchy, she forces her way through things rather than using feminine charm in an assertive manner to pave the way for her. 

Mary Ellen is like the Tom Boy who never grew out of it. That said, there are women like her and being she is the oldest she would have had a lot of responsibility placed on her growing up and she probably never had the time to develop the soft side the way Ellen did and later on Elizabeth.

Also notable that Mary Ellen marries a rather brash Doctor so she found a match! 

Edited July 2, 2022 by LadyIrony

[Zella]

4 hours ago, LadyIrony said:

Mary Ellen is like the Tom Boy who never grew out of it. 

One of the reasons she didn't work for me is the characters kept saying she was a tomboy, but other than them talking about her prowess at baseball, I don't remember the show particularly demonstrating it. It seemed more like an informed trait than anything else. It would be sort of like if we never saw John Boy write or talk about writing, but the other characters kept going on and on about him being a writer. 

[LadyIrony]

6 hours ago, Zella said:

One of the reasons she didn't work for me is the characters kept saying she was a tomboy, but other than them talking about her prowess at baseball, I don't remember the show particularly demonstrating it. It seemed more like an informed trait than anything else. It would be sort of like if we never saw John Boy write or talk about writing, but the other characters kept going on and on about him being a writer. 

Something these discussions has made me realize is that The Walton's wasn't very well written or detailed! As I was reading your post I was thinking about John Boy and even his alleged love of writing doesn't always come through that clearly. He wants to write, I get that, he does write but I don't pick up on the passion and inspiration behind it. He goes about it in a workman like way. There doesn't seem to be any fire driving this rather unstable profession he is pursuing and even going as far as trading some land for a printing press that he then abandons. 

I get the Tom Boy vibe in Mary Ellen due to her demeanor but again that could just be clunky acting from Norton. I agree asides from baseball we don't see a lot of Tom Boy traits and given where they lived, I would imagine that lots of girls played out in the woods, went fishing, caught frogs etc So there would be an overlap in what would be considered things boys and girls would do. 

I see some passion for music in Jason, probably because the actor really is a musician. I also see some passion for mechanics from Jim Bob. 

[Zella]

1 hour ago, LadyIrony said:

I agree asides from baseball we don't see a lot of Tom Boy traits and given where they lived, I would imagine that lots of girls played out in the woods, went fishing, caught frogs etc So there would be an overlap in what would be considered things boys and girls would do. 

Yeah I thought Elizabeth as a little kid seemed way more like a genuine tomboy than Mary Ellen ever did. She liked to fish with grandpa and was always playing with her brothers, which makes sense since they were closer in age. But even as a little kid, she seemed even closer to John Boy than she ever did Erin or Mary Ellen. 

[Blergh]

6 hours ago, Zella said:

Yeah I thought Elizabeth as a little kid seemed way more like a genuine tomboy than Mary Ellen ever did. She liked to fish with grandpa and was always playing with her brothers, which makes sense since they were closer in age. But even as a little kid, she seemed even closer to John Boy than she ever did Erin or Mary Ellen. 

I suppose they wanted a teen girl tagged as a 'tomboy' instead of a preteen one- possibly to show the once unconventional teen changing into a more conventional one who did fall in love, get married and have a child- yet never lost her spunk nor became a docile pushover.

[merylinkid]

In one episode where Mary Ellen trades the Baldwin's typewriter (not realizing it was the Baldwin's she just thought it was junk in the shed), Mary Ellen was going on and on about wanting something from some glamour magazine because it was so Hollywood.   Because of course tomboys are reading glamour magazines all the time.  Of course she is only reading the magazine for that episode because she needed to have some reason to trade the typewriter for cash.   So that John Boy could get all upset that she traded something he had borrowed.   He had borrowed it from the Baldwins because his first story was rejected because it was handwritten not typed.    In other words, this show did what it needed to do for that particular plot that week then moved on to next week's episode.

The only "tomboy" trait was Mary Ellen wanted to be a doctor not a nurse.   

[Blergh]

40 minutes ago, merylinkid said:

In one episode where Mary Ellen trades the Baldwin's typewriter (not realizing it was the Baldwin's she just thought it was junk in the shed), Mary Ellen was going on and on about wanting something from some glamour magazine because it was so Hollywood.   Because of course tomboys are reading glamour magazines all the time.  Of course she is only reading the magazine for that episode because she needed to have some reason to trade the typewriter for cash.   So that John Boy could get all upset that she traded something he had borrowed.   He had borrowed it from the Baldwins because his first story was rejected because it was handwritten not typed.    In other words, this show did what it needed to do for that particular plot that week then moved on to next week's episode.

The only "tomboy" trait was Mary Ellen wanted to be a doctor not a nurse.   

For Mary Ellen to have openly wanted ANY kind of career instead of considering ONLY getting married was rather unconventional for that time and place. It's interesting,too, that when she was a teen, she originally wanted to be a doctor but then due to it seeming to be impractical for her to have done as a woman back then, she compromised enough to become a nurse then got married and wound up being Curt's assistant. However, after she had John Curtis and believed Curt dead, after seeing that she wasn't as capable to treat her fellow citizens as a nurse as she would have been as a doctor, that re-awakened her drive to defy conventions to become the doctor she'd wanted to be as a teen!BTW, it's interesting that Olivia (in the series) hadn't considered wanting any kind of career as a young girl  while it got revealed that GRANDMA had wanted to open a dress shop as a teen before her marriage to Zeb.

[jason88cubs]

I always thought Mary Ellen was cute in certain episodes

Nothing like Erin though in the later years

[jason88cubs]

I read a interview from way back where after Richard Thomas left the show both Ralph Waite and Michael Learned thought they should have ended the show right then

[Tippi]

I liked the characterization of Mary Ellen, especially in her teen and young adult years .  She was brash, hard-headed, a real handful, and a good counterpoint to the sensitive prince of the family John Boy and the ultra feminine charmer Erin.  I thought Judy Norton Taylor was pretty, but not in a Hollywood cookie cutter way.  Rather refreshing and easy to relate to for me.

Going by memory here, but was there something in the Patricia Neal version about her referring to her children as red-haired champions or something along those lines?  I've always thought that the younger children were cast for their red hair and cuteness.

[jason88cubs]

1 hour ago, Tippi said:

I liked the characterization of Mary Ellen, especially in her teen and young adult years .  She was brash, hard-headed, a real handful, and a good counterpoint to the sensitive prince of the family John Boy and the ultra feminine charmer Erin.  I thought Judy Norton Taylor was pretty, but not in a Hollywood cookie cutter way.  Rather refreshing and easy to relate to for me.

Going by memory here, but was there something in the Patricia Neal version about her referring to her children as red-haired champions or something along those lines?  I've always thought that the younger children were cast for their red hair and cuteness.

I always felt Mary Ellen got away with back talk more than others

How many times did we hear her say "Oh Grandma"

or in the 1st season episode where she says to John "You're too dumb to realize"

[Zella]

5 hours ago, jason88cubs said:

I always thought Mary Ellen was cute in certain episodes

Nothing like Erin though in the later years

I personally found Elizabeth more stunning after she got older than either of the older girls, but I did think all the girls were pretty in their own way. 

[jason88cubs]

It's hard watching the show after Will Geer passed away.

It just wasn't the same

Richard leaving, Ellen having a stroke, Will passing away, Michael leaving . So much change in what 2 seasons?

No show could survive all that

It still had it's moments but it lost that "family comfort" feeling

[Zella]

23 minutes ago, jason88cubs said:

It's hard watching the show after Will Geer passed away.

It just wasn't the same

Richard leaving, Ellen having a stroke, Will passing away, Michael leaving . So much change in what 2 seasons?

No show could survive all that

It still had it's moments but it lost that "family comfort" feeling

To me, Geer was the true heart and soul of the show. He had a warmth about him that was irreplaceable. 

[sATL]

On 6/19/2022 at 10:05 AM, jason88cubs said:

My favorite moments is Olivia or Grandma going up to John because there's a issue and him acting all annoyed lol

There was a episode where Ben and Jim Bob were fighting and Elizabeth went and told John and Olivia and John say s"Good maybe we can have some peace around here" and Olivia goes"JOHN!" and John takes a deep sigh and goes "ok"

and in another episode John and John Boy are going somewhere and Grandma comes running out screaming "JOHN! JOHN!" and John says something like "Ahhh Now what" all annoyed  lol

That also happened at the Shivaree episode. After the family found out Jim Bob inadvertently told Ike the honeymooner were still local.😂😂

[Blergh]

Yeah, I have to say that John, Sr. and Jim-Bob were among my faves , despite their faults, because they were virtually unique in their extended family via rarely if ever  butting in and minding other folks' biz! 

Edited July 5, 2022 by Blergh

[Egg McMuffin]

10 hours ago, jason88cubs said:

I always felt Mary Ellen got away with back talk more than others

How many times did we hear her say "Oh Grandma"

or in the 1st season episode where she says to John "You're too dumb to realize"

There’s a funny moment in one episode where Grandma is in the middle of some sexist pronouncement, and Mary Ellen interrupts her, saying “Grandma, if you finish that sentence, I think I’m going to scream.”

[jason88cubs]

14 minutes ago, Egg McMuffin said:

There’s a funny moment in one episode where Grandma is in the middle of some sexist pronouncement, and Mary Ellen interrupts her, saying “Grandma, if you finish that sentence, I think I’m going to scream.”

I recall that! Can't remember what episode but I very much do recall this!

I wanna say Grandma Walton was going to make Mary Ellen sweep

[Blergh]

Yet, it seemed via her temper and stubbornness Mary Ellen was the MOST like Grandma among all her grandkids!

[merylinkid]

Remember Grandma and Mary Ellen butting heads in the quilting bee episode?   Grandma was all excited to have one.   ME was having NONE of it.   Because she was going to be a DOCTOR not get married off as soon as possible.   I guess ME threw such a stink they never even raised the subject with Erin.   By the time poor Elizabeth was old enough, Grandma had her stroke and Olivia was off in Arizona getting TB treatment.

[Egg McMuffin]

I liked how in a last season episode (the one where they get yet another new minister), John Boy narrates that, “the pattern of our lives was broken by the war and the old ways of the past became less a part of us when we returned home.”

[Blergh]

14 hours ago, merylinkid said:

Remember Grandma and Mary Ellen butting heads in the quilting bee episode?   Grandma was all excited to have one.   ME was having NONE of it.   Because she was going to be a DOCTOR not get married off as soon as possible.   I guess ME threw such a stink they never even raised the subject with Erin.   By the time poor Elizabeth was old enough, Grandma had her stroke and Olivia was off in Arizona getting TB treatment.

But, after John-Boy successfully guilt-tripped Mary Ellen to have it on the grounds that her refusal was causing a rift to form between Olivia (who sided with Mary Ellen's refusal) and Grandma. She had it, got the quilt but didn't marry anyone as a result of being 'available'.

No, nothing for Erin (who likely would have been more docile) or poor Elizabeth who Jason told flat out with the parents gone, Grandpa dead and Grandma 'visiting' somewhere else, that she just had to suck up having no one to be there for her. 

[LadyIrony]

On 7/3/2022 at 11:30 PM, Blergh said:

For Mary Ellen to have openly wanted ANY kind of career instead of considering ONLY getting married was rather unconventional for that time and place. It's interesting,too, that when she was a teen, she originally wanted to be a doctor but then due to it seeming to be impractical for her to have done as a woman back then, she compromised enough to become a nurse then got married and wound up being Curt's assistant. However, after she had John Curtis and believed Curt dead, after seeing that she wasn't as capable to treat her fellow citizens as a nurse as she would have been as a doctor, that re-awakened her drive to defy conventions to become the doctor she'd wanted to be as a teen!BTW, it's interesting that Olivia (in the series) hadn't considered wanting any kind of career as a young girl  while it got revealed that GRANDMA had wanted to open a dress shop as a teen before her marriage to Zeb.

I thought she may have become a wing walker during the ep where the pilot lands on their property. Ironically the pilot is the same actor as the one who plays the Doctor she marries later! 

She struggled a bit with her studies as far as I recall. I think she could have been like a local Medicine type woman but I am not so sure she would have succeeded in terms of actual qualifications. Not that it would have mattered too much back then. 

Olivia had the chance to make some money as a dressmaker but pined for her family so despite all the talk of being poor she let it go! I could see Grandma as being some type of business woman. 

On 7/4/2022 at 9:00 PM, jason88cubs said:

I always thought Mary Ellen was cute in certain episodes

Nothing like Erin though in the later years

Mary Ellen had that whole 70's look down, even in period costume she still looked 70's. I am surprised she never developed much of a career. 

Elizabeth was also very cute in her older years. She had an old school film star look about her. 

On 7/4/2022 at 9:03 PM, jason88cubs said:

I read a interview from way back where after Richard Thomas left the show both Ralph Waite and Michael Learned thought they should have ended the show right then

I think a John Boy spin off would have been good. Perhaps Thomas wouldn't have gone for it but it would have been interesting to see him in the big city. 

On 7/5/2022 at 2:04 AM, Zella said:

I personally found Elizabeth more stunning after she got older than either of the older girls, but I did think all the girls were pretty in their own way. 

Yep she had an old film star quality. There is one ep where she must have just said it to hell with the costumes and wears a pair of ankle high boots, she is very cute in that one. 

Ironically it was Norton who posed nude. I would have predicted that "honor" going to Mary McDonough. 

On 7/5/2022 at 3:36 AM, jason88cubs said:

It's hard watching the show after Will Geer passed away.

It just wasn't the same

Richard leaving, Ellen having a stroke, Will passing away, Michael leaving . So much change in what 2 seasons?

No show could survive all that

It still had it's moments but it lost that "family comfort" feeling

Will/Grandpa was the last link to the pioneer days of the family. The show was already falling apart. 

There was a lot of change and it should have ended much sooner. Definitely lost the family comfort feeling. It virtually became Happy Days.

Edited July 7, 2022 by LadyIrony

[Blergh]

@LadyIrony- actually it was Judy Norton (Mary Ellen) NOT Mary McDonough (Erin) who posed for Playboy despite an entire episode about Erin becoming an unintentional pin-up for the nearby army base.

[Tim McD]

One of the things that made the early seasons great was that they would often film on location in the mountains and woodsy areas. I think that’s what makes “The Conflict” so great; instead of using some rinkydink set on the Burbank backlot, the production designers built Martha Corrine’s cabin in an actual mountain location, and that’s what lends the story so much authenticity.

They seemed to have abandoned this practice after the 6th season or so, pretty much confining themselves to the backlot (maybe it was budget issues?). This was unfortunate, as the WWII storylines demanded they shoot in different environs, which they did not do. Instead we have to watch Jason and John Boy 2.0 walk along a country road in France that is identical to the goddam road they took to school as kids, or Ben languishing in a Japanese POW camp that looks a lot like Drucilla’s pond without any water in it. Ugh.

[LadyIrony]

10 hours ago, Blergh said:

@LadyIrony- actually it was Judy Norton (Mary Ellen) NOT Mary McDonough (Erin) who posed for Playboy despite an entire episode about Erin becoming an unintentional pin-up for the nearby army base.

Oops, I meant Norton! Yes, MM fit the part of a 40's pin up girl perfectly. 

40 minutes ago, Tim McD said:

One of the things that made the early seasons great was that they would often film on location in the mountains and woodsy areas. I think that’s what makes “The Conflict” so great; instead of using some rinkydink set on the Burbank backlot, the production designers built Martha Corrine’s cabin in an actual mountain location, and that’s what lends the story so much authenticity.

They seemed to have abandoned this practice after the 6th season or so, pretty much confining themselves to the backlot (maybe it was budget issues?). This was unfortunate, as the WWII storylines demanded they shoot in different environs, which they did not do. Instead we have to watch Jason and John Boy 2.0 walk along a country road in France that is identical to the goddam road they took to school as kids, or Ben languishing in a Japanese POW camp that looks a lot like Drucilla’s pond without any water in it. Ugh.

Does anyone else get a Gilligan's Island vibe from the POW camp? Could have been a funny mash up. The SS Minnow runs aground on the island and comes across ol' Ben Walton who was never found and doesn't know the war is over!

Edited July 7, 2022 by LadyIrony

[Blergh]

13 hours ago, LadyIrony said:

Oops, I meant Norton! Yes, MM fit the part of a 40's pin up girl perfectly. 

Does anyone else get a Gilligan's Island vibe from the POW camp? Could have been a funny mash up. The SS Minnow runs aground on the island and comes across ol' Ben Walton who was never found and doesn't know the war is over!

Of course, the whole pin-up deal with Erin seemed like something out of a sitcom (like  Three's Company) instead of a family drama- and even the initial catalyst ( Ben snapped a photo of Erin in short-shorts sitting on a piano bench to send to Olivia in the sanitorium which somehow got copied then passed off to the army base) seemed absurd. I mean, I  know that Olivia had lightened up considerably from her staunch and rigid early years but WHY would they have thought  that Olivia would  have wanted a picture of her middle daughter in that outfit?

Not to mention that the 'German  woods' Jason saw didn't look drastically different from the 'Pacific Island   jungle' that Ben saw. As per Judy Norton, it seems in the early years , in addition to their usual studio backlots/sets, they filmed in actual  [California] woods and forests (e.g. most of the Martha Corrine two-parter) but it doesn't seem as though they bothered to go  beyond the studio gates for the far-flung WWII adventures. 

Edited July 8, 2022 by Blergh

[barshi50]

3 hours ago, Blergh said:

Of course, the whole pin-up deal with Erin seemed like something out of a sitcom (like  Three's Company) instead of a family drama- and even the initial catalyst ( Ben snapped a photo of Erin in short-shorts sitting on a piano bench to send to Olivia in the sanitorium which somehow got copied then passed off to the army base) seemed absurd. I mean, I  know that Olivia had lightened up considerably from her staunch and rigid early years but WHY would they have thought  that Olivia would  have wanted a picture of her middle daughter in that outfit?

I seem to remember that Ben had one shot left on his roll of film that he had taken to enter in a photo contest in the area newspaper and Erin posed in her shorts as a joke. Somehow that photo was picked and printed in the newspaper and she became the "Camp Lee Cutie". I don't think there was any intention to send it to Olivia. I don't remember if she found out about it. Her father certainly did.

[Zella]

Even when they were filming in actual woods, I never could get over how very California the woods looked compared to what Appalachia actually looks like. I had the same problem with Justified (though I love the show otherwise). And incidentally Cold Mountain and the Hatfields and Mccoys miniseries from several years ago. They filmed in Romania as a stand-in for the area, but it all just looks completely wrong to me and takes me out of it. 

Incidentally, the 1992 Last of the Mohicans is what I watch when I am homesick for home (Western North Carolina), but I have been told by people from New York, where the film is actually set, that they find the landscape jarring because it's clearly not home to them. LOL

[LadyIrony]

12 hours ago, Blergh said:

Of course, the whole pin-up deal with Erin seemed like something out of a sitcom (like  Three's Company) instead of a family drama- and even the initial catalyst ( Ben snapped a photo of Erin in short-shorts sitting on a piano bench to send to Olivia in the sanitorium which somehow got copied then passed off to the army base) seemed absurd. I mean, I  know that Olivia had lightened up considerably from her staunch and rigid early years but WHY would they have thought  that Olivia would  have wanted a picture of her middle daughter in that outfit?

Not to mention that the 'German  woods' Jason saw didn't look drastically different from the 'Pacific Island   jungle' that Ben saw. As per Judy Norton, it seems in the early years , in addition to their usual studio backlots/sets, they filmed in actual  [California] woods and forests (e.g. most of the Martha Corrine two-parter) but it doesn't seem as though they bothered to go  beyond the studio gates for the far-flung WWII adventures. 

I am surprised Erin even was allowed to wear the shorts! And weird that her brother took the pic. I know women wore them back then but how accurate is it that someone like her in that culture would wear them? 

When it comes to some TV eps I often think they are vanity projects for a particular star and/or vehicles. I can't help but feel Mary was trying to establish herself as a sex kitten. 

They did film mostly around Hollywood http://www.allaboutthewaltons.com/locations.php#:~:text=The Waltons not only made,in exterior locations as well. And Drusilla's pond doubled as a WW2 setting with bamboo added!

8 hours ago, barshi50 said:

I seem to remember that Ben had one shot left on his roll of film that he had taken to enter in a photo contest in the area newspaper and Erin posed in her shorts as a joke. Somehow that photo was picked and printed in the newspaper and she became the "Camp Lee Cutie". I don't think there was any intention to send it to Olivia. I don't remember if she found out about it. Her father certainly did.

Her father was not impressed! I can't recall if Olivia ever found out, I imagine she might go into religious shock. I know women wore shorts back then but whether Erin or someone like her would have been allowed to or not is another story. 

I thought it was a bit weird having her brother take the pic too! 

6 hours ago, Zella said:

Even when they were filming in actual woods, I never could get over how very California the woods looked compared to what Appalachia actually looks like. I had the same problem with Justified (though I love the show otherwise). And incidentally Cold Mountain and the Hatfields and Mccoys miniseries from several years ago. They filmed in Romania as a stand-in for the area, but it all just looks completely wrong to me and takes me out of it. 

Incidentally, the 1992 Last of the Mohicans is what I watch when I am homesick for home (Western North Carolina), but I have been told by people from New York, where the film is actually set, that they find the landscape jarring because it's clearly not home to them. LOL

Being Australian they tend to get away with a fair bit with me but I do recall when they go to the sister's beach house that I just knew it was far more Californian and 50's looking than Virginia Beach, even though I had no idea what Virginia Beach looks like!

Some parts of America could easily pass for the Australian outback, so it really depends on how well the choose their locations. TV back then was not big on accuracy let alone quality!

[Zella]

11 minutes ago, LadyIrony said:

Some parts of America could easily pass for the Australian outback, so it really depends on how well the choose their locations.

Weirdly enough, I live in the Ozarks now, and I've seen stuff filmed in Hungary where the landscapes could have easily been swapped for here. I'd be none the wiser. LOL 

[jason88cubs]

I loved how in the earlier episodes you would see John come in from the mill all sweaty, hair ruffled, dirty. It looked real

Later on you'd see him come in looking like he'd been sitting on the porch all day

[Blergh]

On 7/9/2022 at 3:14 PM, jason88cubs said:

I loved how in the earlier episodes you would see John come in from the mill all sweaty, hair ruffled, dirty. It looked real

Later on you'd see him come in looking like he'd been sitting on the porch all day

Yes, and unless there were specific plot points for individual episode which hinged upon the saw mill being in operation, the viewers never heard the saw mill . Despite their home being so close to the family's livelihood Olivia, Esther,etc. were able to do  light chores or relax on the front porch instead of being distracted by the noise. Also, there  were no signs of what had become of the trees' bark, leaves, branches, twigs or the critters who'd lived within- just perfectly sawed logs stacked in piles  AND wooden planks to be sawed for boards,etc..

Still, the saw mill was closer to reality than the LHOTP counterpart. 

Edited July 10, 2022 by Blergh

[jason88cubs]

11 hours ago, Blergh said:

Yes, and unless there were specific plot points for individual episode which hinged upon the saw mill being in operation, the viewers never heard the saw mill . Despite their home being so close to the family's livelihood Olivia, Esther,etc. able to do  light chores or relax on the front porch instead of being distracted by the noise. Also, there  were no signs of what had become of the trees' bark, leaves, branches, twigs or the critters who'd lived within- just perfectly sawed logs stacked in piles  AND wooden planks to be sawed for boards,etc..

Still, the saw mill was closer to reality than the LHOTP counterpart. 

and the fact there wasn't enough time in the day for John to get everything done. Chop all the wood, take it to the sawmill cut it up, constantly hunt for food for the family

[jason88cubs]

Anyone notice in the very early episodes Olivia would often sit to John's left at the dinner table, then moved to the right? I wonder why they changed that