Felicity Smoak: Bitch With Wifi

[Guest]

You're right, compared to season three, things have been a million times better and she has been allowed to be stronger and has had agency (unlike poor Thea after 4x13). And at least she's had a storyline unlike Laurel. So yeah things could be worse.

I am generally happy with Felicity this season but I do feel like the pacing on so many of her story's have been rushed that I am left a bit disappointed. I think i just wanted better. I guess my expectations were probably too high.

 

That's my main issue with Felicity's storyline this season too. I'm glad she did have some story outside of Olicity because it's really important that she's more than a love interest, but the pacing of everything has been way too rushed. I know that's a consistent symptom of Arrow anyway - they're forever burning through plot - but I feel like a lot of things should have had time to breathe. I wanted to see Felicity struggle more with adapting to life in a wheelchair instead of her issues being resolved in the same episode. And I always hoped for more from her storyline with her dad. I know they left it open to continue in s5 and that's great but it certainly wasn't what they built it up to be. 

[statsgirl]

From the Laurel Lance thread:

 

Back in the first season I meant. After that they just stopped caring after they got Felicity who (for s1) did very little more than babble even when it made 0'sense.

I think saying that Felicity did little more than babble in season 1 diminishes the role she actually played on the show.

 

Even setting apart her role as the tech expert and telecomms person, she

1. made Oliver laugh and lightened up a very dour (David Ramsey's expression) Arrow lair;
2.  supported Oliver unconditionally but also called him out on his lies and b.s., unlike Laurel who either hated Oliver/the Hood or loved him and never knew when he was lying;
3.  provided a third member of the team who emphasized the humanity of the mission (e.g. don't kill the single father of a little boy) to contrast with Diggle's military thinking or Oliver's lack of humanity in season 1;
4. Reminded Oliver of his humanity;
5.  cut the huge amount of testosterone in the Arrow lair;
6. emphasized optimism and hope over guilt or responsibility.

 

I think there are very good reasons why AK said that the show didn't come together until Felicity joined the Team.

Edited March 9, 2016 by statsgirl

[wonderwall]

From the Laurel Lance thread:

 

I think saying that Felicity did little more than babble in season 1 diminishes the role she actually played on the show.

 

Even setting apart her role as the tech expert and telecomms person, she

1. made Oliver laugh and lightened up a very dour (David Ramsey's expression) Arrow lair;
2.  supported Oliver unconditionally but also called him out on his lies and b.s., unlike Laurel who either hated Oliver/the Hood or loved him and never knew when he was lying;
3.  provided a third member of the team who emphasized the humanity of the mission (e.g. don't kill the single father of a little boy) to contrast with Diggle's military thinking or Oliver's lack of humanity in season 1;
4. Reminded Oliver of his humanity;
5.  cut the huge amount of testosterone in the Arrow lair;
6. emphasized optimism and hope over guilt or responsibility.

 

I think there's are very good reasons why AK said that the show didn't come together until Felicity joined the Team.

 

To build on this, it's easy to say that any other female could've taken on this role and provided what Felicity provided in S1, but a simple matter of fact is that no other woman on Arrow did, nor did the writers ever really hint that any woman on that show before Felicity were set to take on that role. They all had their own roles to play in S1, Thea was the sister desperately trying to get through to Oliver (who completely shut her out for her own safety), Moira who's too diabolical, Laurel who was too burned by Oliver in the past to ever really take on that role... 

[statsgirl]

Could other characters have taken on parts of it?

 

Thea might have been the one to make Oliver lighten up and play the humanity card but then she would have had to have joined the Team and not only was Oliver too protective of his baby sister, she was too young and too occupied in rebelling in s1 to take on a vigilante role.

 

Laurel had too much history with Oliver, not to mention too much anger to either lighten up the mood in the lair or support Oliver unconditionally while calling him on his lies and b.s., something that Laurel had never done in the past.

 

Helena was too psycho.

 

McKenna might have fill some of the functions if they hadn't found EBR first but she was a cop and the Hood was a criminal back then.  It would have taken quite a while to get her onside the Team, and then she would have not only the conflict of working both sides of the law, she'd be busy with her day job when the Team needed her.

 

The Team, and the show, needed Felicity.

Edited March 9, 2016 by statsgirl

[BkWurm1]

Random thought that won't leave me.

Felicity needs new glasses.

She's had the same pair for four years. Now as a wearer of glasses, I've had glasses that long as well (and longer) but usually because I'm trying to save a buck and even then after four years of constantly wearing them, they have scratches on the lense and a lot of ware on the part I tuck behind my ears. And I don't do a darn thing that jostle them.

Felicity has repelled down zip lines, been tackled as land mines went off, kidnapped by Slade, help prisoner in NP (and "died") fought of an attacker with a machine gun AND was shot up by bullets. There is no way her glasses wouldn't have taken a beating.

But her glasses always look brand new. I suppose she found a style she liked and just bought several pairs, but as conscious of fashion as Felicity is, I can't see her not updating her glasses. Even in earware four years is a long time. Styles change.

And yet we just got a gorgeous new promo and that Funko Pop and I hate to see either as out of date. So chances are they have no plans of bringing in new glasses, but it's going to bug me on a practical level until they do.

[Delphi]

I buy my glasses online. And while I do need new ones about every two years I almost always buy the same pair of its still being produced or one as visually similar as I can find.

Was she wearing different glasses in the Starling flash back last year? If she was she's had them for longer.

[BkWurm1]

I buy my glasses online. And while I do need new ones about every two years I almost always buy the same pair of its still being produced or one as visually similar as I can find.

Was she wearing different glasses in the Starling flash back last year? If she was she's had them for longer.

I change them every time.  Sometimes drastically, sometimes just marginally. The last couple times I've made sure I have two pairs at any one time and yeah, both are vastly different.  Nobody.  Ever.  Notices, lol. 

 

I went and found some photos of Felicity in The Return and you are right, she still has the same glasses.  So that's six years of the exact same glasses.  I wonder...

 

Well just did a quick check on my DVR and she has officially had the same glasses since Cooper died.  That puts it closer to seven years if not longer.  So she has had the same pair of glasses since she was 19.

 

Yup, time to upgrade. 

 

(Not that I actually have any problem with her glasses, just how unrealistic it feels that she'd have kept the same pair this long or that they'd still be making the exact same frame. )

 

This is the crap my mind starts fixating on when I have to wait too long for new episodes. 

Edited March 16, 2016 by BkWurm1

[statsgirl]

I kept buying very similar glasses for 15 years or longer because I liked the thin frames that didn't block my vision. Then I decided I needed to reinvent myself but I still wear my old glasses at home.

 

I think having the same glasses in the post-Cooper scenes would be more of a budget decision than a personality statement.

[apinknightmare]

Since the glasses are kind of her trademark, I doubt she'll ever get new ones. 

Edited March 16, 2016 by apinknightmare

[calliope1975]

Since the glasses are kind of her trademark, I doubt she'll ever get new ones. 

 

If there's even a remote chance Wardrobe will muck up Felicity's Glasses 2.0 like they have Oliver's suit and Diggle's helmet, I hope she keeps those frames forever. 

[Guest]

I don't know, I kind of like that she wears the same glasses. I can relate, sticking to the same style because it suited me.

Plus they're just...Felicity.

[BkWurm1]

I got my first pair of glasses in 10th grade and two years later was off anyone's insurance for a number of years so ended up keeping the same pair for 6 years (and superglued them back together several dozen times) and during that time, the style in glasses went from large and oversized to really small.  Perhaps that has made me hyperaware. 

 

  In reality they have probably a dozen of the same glasses in the prop department so she won't need to worry about new glasses for a long time.  They probably will only swap them if the change in styles get too noticeable. I do think it's unrealistic that Felicity wouldn't see her glasses as a potential fashion accessory but yeah, there are some really bad looks out there so tried and true might be safest. 

Edited March 16, 2016 by BkWurm1

[catrox14]

I've worn the same pair of glasses for 7 years. They were nearly 500 US bucks between the frames and the lenses (for I have such poor vision). I've had the lenses replaced as needed. The stems broke twice. They are the perfect shape for my face and I've never been able to find another pair like them .  Alas, I think this last breakage is not fixable so I may be forced to get new glasses.

 

So in short I can relate if Felicity keeps the same glases :).  Of course I'm also not out in the field and swinging down a line to escape bad guys....LOL

[statsgirl]

I think in real life Felicity would use the glasses as a fashion accessory, especially when her insurance would pay for new ones.

 

But on the show, they identify her as Felicity, the IT geek Oliver fell for.

[BkWurm1]

I've worn the same pair of glasses for 7 years. They were nearly 500 US bucks between the frames and the lenses (for I have such poor vision). I've had the lenses replaced as needed. The stems broke twice. They are the perfect shape for my face and I've never been able to find another pair like them .  Alas, I think this last breakage is not fixable so I may be forced to get new glasses.

 

So in short I can relate if Felicity keeps the same glases :).  Of course I'm also not out in the field and swinging down a line to escape bad guys....LOL

Oh I sympathize with you over the $500 pair.  I don't even have a complicated prescription but splurged about seven years ago (cafeteria plan ) and spent $400 on one frame and then got a much cheaper back up pair.  Guess which ones I lost almost right away, lol.  (Only to find out that a family member had found them years ago but tossed them because a lense fell out.- I still whimper about that) 

Edited March 16, 2016 by BkWurm1

[statsgirl]

With all the complaints of Felicity constantly quitting the team, I thought I'd look at the times she did, and surprise, almost all of them are linked to Oliver.

1. She quit the time almost as soon as she joined in season 1 over Oliver targetting a single father. She was back the same episode when Oliver said that he hadn't hurt the man and agreed to go after The Dodger.

2. She left in season 3 when they thought Oliver had died and there was no more Team Arrow.

3. She left at the end of season 3 to go help Oliver find himself (except she really didn't she kept working with them behind his back).

4. She left in season 4 when she was paralyzed and thought she was no good to them any more.

5. She left after the last episode when it became clear that Oliver couldn't work with her as just colleagues.

So that's five quits, four of them caused by Oliver. In contrast, Diggle quit once, because Oliver failed to back him up, and he worked on the Team after the end of season 3 because Oliver was off it. I suspect that if Oliver had stayed, Diggle would have left.

It's all Oliver's fault.

[Guest]

It's weird but some of those listed above I don't even consider her actually quitting the team. IMO, quitting when she was recently paralyzed didn't actually feel real or permanent, especially because it didn't even last an hour. She was just mentally and emotionally exhausted and messed up and wasn't thinking clearly but she was still helping the team.

 

And leaving at the end of s3 also doesn't really feel like quitting when she was helping the team anyway, and a lot by the sounds of it.

 

YMMV, I guess?

Edited March 26, 2016 by Guest

[dtissagirl]

Yeah, I agree. I actually had to look up what other time she quit the team this season, to remember she considered it when she was paralyzed, because it lasted like, 12 minutes on screen.

[doesntworkonwood]

Yeah, I agree. I actually had to look up what other time she quit the team this season, to remember she considered it when she was paralyzed, because it lasted like, 12 minutes on screen.

Half of which she spent talking to herself so I think we can forgive her for that...

[Password]

Also she was on pain meds so it wouldn't have been a good idea ANYWAY to have her on the team. That I thought was a very valid reason to have her sit out for a while so she could recuperate.

I know the onscreen reason was that she had a crisis of faith in her abilities because she was hindered by being disabled and in a wheelchair, but honestly asking her for help while she was drugged was a TERRIBLE IDEA.

[BkWurm1]

I have a hard time considering the first time she quit a legitimate instance since she'd barely agreed to work for them and was back by the next day.  To me that was more setting boundaries and coming to a better understanding than actually quitting. 

 

Same with when she was injured.  She wasn't ready to come back, they pushed her, she freaked out, but shortly after she straightened out her head, started weaning off the meds and was fine.  So I don't count that one. 

 

By my count she quit after Oliver died but that was grief clouding her mind and she was back in a week. She might as well have just taken time off for bereavement.  It still counts but just barely. 

 

The end of season three also sort of falls in the "it counts but barely" since she continued on despite saying she quit. 

 

Really, I only think she's full on quit this one time.  Right now she has no intention of coming back.  An apology from Oliver won't do anything, it would take years to get to the point where being around Oliver wasn't emotionally hard, and while I don't think she'd turn her back on them if they needed her, she wasn't even interested in continuing remotely.  She was DONE and seeking a different way to make a difference in the world. 

 

Of course Laurel's death throws everything back up into the air.  Still, this one full on counts, no caveats, no exceptions. The rest, not so much. 

[Thundercatmary]

Forget to comment back when I first started posting here, I was hoping she would have codebreaker as her codename. I don't particularly like Overwatch but it does make sense. 

[Guest]

I find I'm less bothered by Felicity's codename now. I'm not that keen on Overwatch because it does feel like MG patting himself on the back but I also don't think we're gonna hear it all that much on the show. I can only count a handful of times everyone has called each other by their codename over comms tbh. So...meh. Whatever. I think they made a big thing out of it because it was obvious how much Felicity needed a codename for safety reasons and now that they've ticked that box, I don't think we'll hear it much.

[Thundercatmary]

I agree. Tbh I think it's more important to show at least some self defense training, like teach her how to use a gun or something idk lol

[Guest]

I agree. Tbh I think it's more important to show at least some self defense training, like teach her how to use a gun or something idk lol

 

I'd love Diggle to teach her how to use a gun, just so she has an extra means of defending herself and not like she did when she picked up the gun in 403 and just fired it and hoped for the best. I mean, it was hilarious but that won't always work. LOL. Some basic defense would help but I get the impression that one lesson Diggle gave her in s1 was about as far as they wanted to go with that. 

Edited April 23, 2016 by Guest

[Password]

*gasp*

Do you think now Laurel is gone we'll get Delicity scenes again?

I wonder if the only reason we got Delicity scenes in the season 2B is because Oliver was tied up with the Lances.

[wonderwall]

In a universe where:

• Barry can run extremely quickly
• Barry can go to alternate universes
• Metahumans exist
• Ray can make tech that makes him incredibly tiny
• Curtis can cure paralysis in a few months
• Oliver can hit every single target with a bow and arrow
• Sara has come back to life via the Lazarus Pit
• Magic is real
• Laurel can learn combat in a few months and can go against multiple assassins who've been training their entire lives
• Time travel is possible
• Supersoldiers can be created with a Mirakuru serum

I love how when it comes to Felicity: 

• Her ability to hack into almost anything is unrealistic
• How her being able to walk is unrealistic
• How apparently there is no woman in the STEM field who dresses up like her

It really is something...

Edited May 7, 2016 by wonderwall

[Guest]

@wonderwall, I get irrationally angry at the double standards there. Particularly when Curtis can literally do everything and anything and is even an Olympic athlete and is still not called out for being a Gary Stu. But Felicity graduated at 19 and can hack anything apparently makes her a Mary Sue. Um...

I CANNOT.

And what's up with this idea that Felicity only became CEO of PT because she slept with Ray? I get so ragey.

Edited May 8, 2016 by Guest

[bijoux]

I can understand the part about Felicity walking being incindiary, because a lot of the people I've seen complain have first hand knowledge of having a disability and it hits too close to home. It comes off as a too realistic situation in the show's heightened reality.

[Ceylon5]

Everyone else on these shows heals from everything from death upwards, so I don't really see why Felicity's paralysis should be expected to be treated any differently.  Barry and Wells were both in wheelchairs too, and they both ended up walking again (Barry after only one episode).  I don't really see why it would be fine for Barry to have super-healing (from other disabilities too, like blindness), but not for Felicity to have tech healing?  Sure, I can understand people being disappointed if they thought they were going to get Felicity as a permanent representative of a disability, but again, it's not really something these shows go for long term.  And the tech used on her is actually not that far out of the realm of possibility - people are working on technologies like this right now.

But regardless, I don't really see why her being able to walk again after an injury would be included as something to criticise the character for.  That's like criticising Sara or Thea for being dumped in the Lazarus Pit and brought back to life or Oliver for miraculously not being dead after being run through with a sword and dropped off a mountain, to name just a few examples.  Those are all story-telling faults, not character faults.  And in this case, the main fault in the story-telling was them making a point of how permanent her paralysis was.  If they'd never done that, then her getting better wouldn't even be an issue, since getting better from injuries does sometimes happen in the real world to real people.  I assume they did it that way mostly so Curtis could be the hero with his clever doohicky, but to a lesser degree because they like pretending they're going to kill people or hurt them permanently, only to walk it back and say, 'Haha, gotcha!'.  I assume they erroneously think that makes the story more exciting or something.

As for hacking - ALL TV hacking is wildly unrealistic, from dear Hardison on Leverage, to Birkhoff on Nikita, to Skye on SHIELD, to all the other multitudes.  Hacking just doesn't work that way.  Limitless makes me laugh - when they had him hacking stuff, he'd tell the audience that hacking is really boring, so he'd let us watch cool explosions or cute puppies or whatever while he was busy.  That is such a fun show.  The point is that just like we don't need or want to see people going to the toilet or spending 10 hours in the car getting places that are far away, so too, do we not need or want to see the boring details of hacking.  And in shows like Arrow where we've suspended disbelief on just about everything else, hacking is the least of our worries!  I personally love Felicity's effortless ability to tame any computer network.  I think it's fun and cool, just like Oliver being so accurate with his bow and arrows is fun and cool.

Let's all just be grateful that Felicity doesn't have a silly leather costume or ugly helmet to complain about.  Regular clothes can be hit or miss, depending on the day and the tastes of the viewer, but we're stuck with those same daft costumes week after week and there's nothing we can do to escape those suckers!

Edited May 8, 2016 by Ceylon5

[bijoux]

I didn't point this out, but the complaints I saw were about the storytelling and not along the lines of how dare she walk again. 

[kismet]

Consider me someone who had problems with the whole spinal cord injury/wheelchair story, but I have already discussed those at lengths so I won't go there again. And as angry as I was at the storyline, I blame the writers & TPTB for that. It has nothing to do with the characters. In fact, the only thing that did save the storyline was EBRs & SAs acting. Without their portrayals, I would have had far more significant issues with the storyline.  

[Ceylon5]

9 hours ago, Angel12d said:

And what's up with this idea that Felicity only became CEO of PT because she slept with Ray? I get so ragey.

If this were true, it would be more of an indictment of Ray than of Felicity.  We've been shown, though, that Ray wanted to leave behind a legacy (he said he built his company because he wanted to create something worthwhile that would outlast him).  He certainly liked the idea of being a legend.  He wouldn't have chosen to leave his company in Felicity's hands if he didn't trust her to do a good job.  

But more to the point, Ray only decided to leave her the company AFTER they broke up, when they were no longer sleeping together, so he clearly chose her for business reasons, not personal ones.  He trusted her and depended on her long before they started sleeping together, and continued to do so after they broke up.  She was his number 2.  Who else would he leave it to?

Edited May 8, 2016 by Ceylon5
Checked the episode this happened in and realised it happened after they broke up.

[looptab]

9 hours ago, Angel12d said:

And what's up with this idea that Felicity only became CEO of PT because she slept with Ray? I get so ragey.

Is this being prompted by something in particular or just the general feeling outside the fence? 

[kismet]

Again another writing fumble. They generally write the women decently on Arrow. But every now and then they get these clunky sexist stumbles, it's really bizarre. I really feel its because they try to jam so much in that they forget to even let some of the exposition breathe.

I also think by setting a lot of the "flirty" and "romantic" scenes between RP & FS in PT, they made PT seem more about their relationship and less about her being the actual VP of PT. If you are only surface/casual watching, don't particularly focus on FS or dislike her it would have been easy in s3 to forget that she actually was the VP of PT and not just dating the CEO while doing stuff in the office. The show didn't do much to show that her job responsibilities were that much different from her EA job, which of course they were - but it did a poor job showing or telling that.

[dtissagirl]

16 minutes ago, kismet said:

If you are only surface/casual watching, don't particularly focus on FS or dislike her it would have been easy in s3 to forget that she actually was the VP of PT and not just dating the CEO while doing stuff in the office.

I think you might have skipped a couple of words there. If you are only casual watching WHILE BEING A SEXIST D-BAG, one might think Felicity got job promotions by sleeping with the boss.

[Ceylon5]

To be fair to the show, it's never concentrated on the work side of QC/PT, except in terms of major things like it changing hands or having a bearing on Arrow stuff or personal character stuff - which is just as well, because they suck at all things business related.  We didn't see Oliver doing much CEO-related work in S2 and he's the protagonist.  It's not likely that we'd see much of Felicity's job, either as VP or CEO, where it doesn't in some way relate to the superhero part of the show, or something more personal.  So, yes, I agree that we didn't see much of her VP work, but they did give her the big office (as part of the 'show'), and they did mention her title from time to time (as part of the 'tell'), and we did occasionally see her doing VP stuff, so that's about as much as one can expect from a show like this.  I think that if viewers choose to remember Felicity as spending the entire season doing nothing but dating her boss (when she actually only dated him for 4 episodes out of 23), then that's on the viewers, not Felicity or the show.

Edited May 8, 2016 by Ceylon5

[kismet]

Just now, dtissagirl said:

I think you might have skipped a couple of words there. If you are only casual watching WHILE BEING A SEXIST D-BAG, one might think Felicity got job promotions by sleeping with the boss.

Well perhaps. But I was talking about people who might not have realized she became the VP at all. I watch the show and follow it here and sometimes forget she was actually the VP and not just head of one of the random depts. It's not a detail that is salient if your a casual viewer.

So when RP left her the company they probably did think it had something to do with their previous close relationship/friendship. If she had never dated him, she probably never would have developed a close enough relationship/friendship in that short amount of time for her to be left his company in his absentia/death. And even if they were only technically dating for 4 episodes, from the time she signs on to PT shows them having a flirty close friendship. She earned the job because of her talent & merit, but like I said if you're casually watching it could just seem like hey they dated, he loves her, she loves jello, they break up but remain close friends so RP trusted her and left her his company. The douchebags will of course make it about her sleeping with him, but we can't account for them.

It also was dumb of the writers knowing they were going to kill/shrink RP in the s4 finale, they should have just let FS inherit the company as the actual VP. Have RP never officially file her resignation and forget to remove her from company files. So when he dies they call her out of the blue, as opposed to having her quick sign a few papers, while douche RP never tells her what she is signing. The writers made it easy for people to pounce on how she became the CEO of PT or confuse the facts.

[Ceylon5]

Except, if, as you say, the viewers didn't even remember that Felicity was VP in the first place, they're no more likely to accept your scenario than the one where she signed the papers Ray gave her.

Just in general, though, the idea that someone would leave a company to someone they used to date because they used to date, is to me bizarre in the extreme.  Them breaking up is much more likely to have prejudiced her chances with Ray at work than the other way around.  It's more a case of him leaving her his company in spite of them having dated and then broken up.  That's how much he respects her skills and her.

Edited May 8, 2016 by Ceylon5

[Guest]

1 hour ago, looptab said:

Is this being prompted by something in particular or just the general feeling outside the fence? 

It's actually a thing I've seen mentioned a few times...elsewhere. Felicity only got PT as some kind of reward for sex. I am not kidding. Sexist and gross and honestly believed to be true by some. It doesn't matter that she went to MIT and that she's a genius and she obviously proved herself capable while she was VP. Her vagina was the only reason! LOL.

As for the discussion of Felicity walking again, I agree it was ridiculous but only in the sense that she'd been in a wheelchair for 3 months and had presumably one physical therapy session but had no problem walking. That just doesn't happen. Realistically she would have fallen to the ground because her muscles hadn't been used for so long. She should have built up to walking again. I can buy the chip in the spine to help her walk because this is Arrow. But they really shouldn't have had her walking so easily just so she could walk away from Oliver. It cheapened the whole thing and not only tainted the moment where she could walk again but the O/F break-up too. 

Edited May 8, 2016 by Guest

[bijoux]

42 minutes ago, kismet said:

It also was dumb of the writers knowing they were going to kill/shrink RP in the s4 finale, they should have just let FS inherit the company as the actual VP. Have RP never officially file her resignation and forget to remove her from company files. So when he dies they call her out of the blue, as opposed to having her quick sign a few papers, while douche RP never tells her what she is signing. The writers made it easy for people to pounce on how she became the CEO of PT or confuse the facts.

On the one hand, it certainly would have avoided the confusion over what Ray actually did, leave her his shares, appoint her CEO (but how)...? On the other, I have to admit that Ray doing it the way he did was consistent with him buying the store chain where Felicity worked and tracking her to Verdant.

[Ceylon5]

So does this mean we can add "awe-inspiring in bed" to Felicity's list of unrealistic skills?

[Guest]

Just now, Ceylon5 said:

So does this mean we can add "awe-inspiring in bed" to Felicity's list of unrealistic skills?

Magical vagina! Not only does it inspire Ray to finish his suit but it gets her the keys to PT. Damn! 

[looptab]

14 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

It's actually a thing I've seen mentioned a few times...elsewhere. Felicity only got PT as some kind of reward for sex. I am not kidding. Sexist and gross and honestly believed to be true by some. It doesn't matter that she went to MIT and that she's a genius and she obviously proved herself capable while she was VP. Her vagina was the only reason! LOL.

Wow. I've never seen it, luckily - or if I have, my mind must have just erased it from memory. Ugh.

Edited May 8, 2016 by looptab

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, looptab said:

Wow. I've never seen it, luckily - or if I have, my mind has just erased it from memory. Ugh.

You're so lucky. I've seen it a few times but I came across it recently in the comments on one of the articles about how Olicity helped Arrow or something? Anyway, a woman said this so it stayed with me even more so than usual. And I'm drifting into fan talk now which isn't allowed but you get the gist. 

Edited May 8, 2016 by Guest

[SmallScreenDiva]

I came across this interesting (and very loooooong) post from a disabled Arrow fan this morning. It's very interesting how she viewed Felicity's paralysis story line: Dear Felicity Smoak. 

• Thank you for being authentic
• Thank you for not turning it into a pity party
• Thank you for not making other people feel painfully awkward around Felicity. 
• Thank you for making some people ableist jerks.
• Thank you for handling the situation with humor. 
• Thank you for not letting her disability consume every aspect of her life.
• Thank you for showing Felicity’s resilience and determination.
• Thank you for handling the situation with grace. 

[kismet]

1 hour ago, looptab said:

I think Felicity was being insecure since the board was pondering whether or not she was fit to run the company, when she offered to give it back to Oliver. She has claimed that she wants to carry out Ray's legacy, plus she has always cared about the people who work there - which have been her coworkers for the past 6 years. The employees being out of a job was what she used to convince Oliver to come back to Starling in 201.

I guess I'm not following you anymore. I don't really have an interest in seeing the company and company-related plots, or care about the company itself, I just care insofar the characters I like care about it and the plots are interesting. But it's always been just a  place to have scenes, no matter the players. I guess that's different to you? And maybe you liked better the dynamic of s1 and s2. But I have enjoyed Curtis, and I liked the scenes where Felicity struggled during her presentation. I felt bad for her when they fired her. Now, were they my favorite aspect of the season? No. But I don't think it's an issue of the company being emotionally relevant or not, I think it merely depends on whether you like the dynamics that unfold there.

Brought it here because its not really about the news.

Anyway, the point for me is I don't care about Ray's legacy and I don't care about co-workers they never showed. Frankly, I barely care about Curtis, but he's funny and I guess I have to put up with him because he is a regular now.

In previous seasons, major characters had scenes at QC besides just FS. Since s3 its been FS and characters they are spinning-off. Therefore, if you don't respond to the new characters it becomes easier to care less about those scenes. I like FS but I don't like her professional life enough to care about it when the writers make it all about Curtis or Ray. You can lift the PT plot out of s4 and not miss any part of the main narrative which was to take down DD. It's the equivalent of LL's CNRI after they dropped the VOW set-up or ADA gig in s2/3. Take it away and you miss nothing from the season, unless you are invested in that character. I would say it would be the same for OQ's mayoral run in s4, but they managed to link it back to the main plot with Ruve. The writers should have found a way to link PT back to the main plot, besides just needing to steal tech from it. It did provide a good caper, but they could have stolen from any company and I would have been fine. I honestly think the only reason FS got fired was to do the caper and give the sets to Supergirl. 

In s1/2, even if you didn't care about MQ, the Queens or QC the scenes were important because they linked back to the main narratives of the List, the Undertaking and Isabel/Slade's revenge. And if the scenes did not link back to those, they included multiple main cast members. So those scenes mattered outside of just being a story for a character.

I wish they had done more with FS's tenure as CEO for PT. I wish it was relevant to the main plot and wasn't just used as a place to roll out Curtis. I wish it showed FS as a kickass leader. Instead I got a lot about Curtis being a good inventor and some snappy boardroom banter. Nothing about her credentials as to why she should be CEO and nothing about what she wants her legacy to be. It's been 4 years and all I know about FS for her professional legacy is she likes to help people and is good with computers.

Meanwhile, I could fill a list with Ray's, Curtis's & Cisco's professional skills and legacies. They skipped over why FS would want to go from working in cybersecurity/IT to running a tech company. And her involvement has been only to help other people's inventions and legacies. The only legacy they have set-up is the Eye of Sauruman Virus. Surely someone with her academic pedigree & professional experience should have more dreams than running another man's company. And perhaps next season we'll find out what that is or at least they'll put more main cast into the PT storyline than just FS & the new guy.

Edited May 23, 2016 by kismet

[ComicFan777]

To me, the company became more than just a set for scenes when Felicity cared about it and the people who worked in it.  TBH, I think we've seen a much wider range of Felicity's professional skills in show than Ray, Curtis, and Cisco.  Aside from the genius technical expertise Felicity has, we have seen some of the nitty gritty details of what it means to be a leader of a company through the course of Felicity's career, particularly in season 3 and 4.  She harnessed people's potentials, determined the marketability of inventions, made pitches to gain investors, fought against layoffs, negotiated with the board to push for a company vision for public access for affordable medical devices - how are these not professional skills?  We saw Felicity do more than Ray or Oliver ever did for their companies or their employees in show.  The company is only as important as the people in it and we've seen Felicity fight for those people since season 2, regardless of whose name is on the front of the building.

She has shown us that there can be so much more than just coming up with an invention when you own a company.  At the beginning of season 4, Felicity went through all the projects Curtis had created and determined whether any of them are marketable or useful for the masses.  Curtis invents, but he lacks the foresight that Felicity has for determining the right projects to continue developing.  Curtis may make inventions galore, but Felicity must be able to come up with practical uses for mass production, find and maintain investor interest, and negotiate with the board to make these inventions accessible to the public. 

You don't need to be an inventor like Ray, Curtis, or Cisco to have professional skills or a legacy.  How is taking a failing company and turning it into a successful one that offers affordable medical devices to the masses not a noble legacy?  Why diminish Felicity's legacy to just creating a supervirus and running another man's company? How are Ray, Curtis, and Cisco's professional skills clearly shown? Ray (or his employees) made the smart watch, but otherwise it felt like he was just running the company as a front to build the ATOM suit.  Curtis was on the list of people that the company could fire with minimal impact. We haven't been shown that he made anything practical before Felicity pushed him to focus on the power cell.  As far as we have seen, Cisco seems to spend his days making superweapons and single-application devices to solve the problem of the week for Team Flash, but does little else for the world.

Yes, they're all inventors, but those inventions are also on par with Felicity's chip to run the ATOM suit, her facial recognition algorithm that has been integrated into the ATOM suit, STAR Labs and team Arrow computer systems, and all the other advanced data mining she does to give Team Arrow and Team Flash a clue how and where to do their vigilante jobs.  Felicity has also built a legacy "in the light".  She matters to the people she fights to employ and the people she helps by making medical devices accessible - that is her legacy, no matter whose name is on the company sign.

[Genki]

As long as the company ties to Ray (i.e. is called PT) I will not care about it as much as if it were Queen Consolidated, Queen Incorporated  or Smoak Technologies (Although I assume, according to the darkest timeline ST is the company that occurs when Oliver and Felicity do not get back together).

[kismet]

12 hours ago, ComicFan777 said:

To me, the company became more than just a set for scenes when Felicity cared about it and the people who worked in it.  TBH, I think we've seen a much wider range of Felicity's professional skills in show than Ray, Curtis, and Cisco.  Aside from the genius technical expertise Felicity has, we have seen some of the nitty gritty details of what it means to be a leader of a company through the course of Felicity's career, particularly in season 3 and 4.  She harnessed people's potentials, determined the marketability of inventions, made pitches to gain investors, fought against layoffs, negotiated with the board to push for a company vision for public access for affordable medical devices - how are these not professional skills?  We saw Felicity do more than Ray or Oliver ever did for their companies or their employees in show.  The company is only as important as the people in it and we've seen Felicity fight for those people since season 2, regardless of whose name is on the front of the building.

She has shown us that there can be so much more than just coming up with an invention when you own a company.  At the beginning of season 4, Felicity went through all the projects Curtis had created and determined whether any of them are marketable or useful for the masses.  Curtis invents, but he lacks the foresight that Felicity has for determining the right projects to continue developing.  Curtis may make inventions galore, but Felicity must be able to come up with practical uses for mass production, find and maintain investor interest, and negotiate with the board to make these inventions accessible to the public. 

You don't need to be an inventor like Ray, Curtis, or Cisco to have professional skills or a legacy.  How is taking a failing company and turning it into a successful one that offers affordable medical devices to the masses not a noble legacy?  Why diminish Felicity's legacy to just creating a supervirus and running another man's company? How are Ray, Curtis, and Cisco's professional skills clearly shown? Ray (or his employees) made the smart watch, but otherwise it felt like he was just running the company as a front to build the ATOM suit.  Curtis was on the list of people that the company could fire with minimal impact. We haven't been shown that he made anything practical before Felicity pushed him to focus on the power cell.  As far as we have seen, Cisco seems to spend his days making superweapons and single-application devices to solve the problem of the week for Team Flash, but does little else for the world.

Yes, they're all inventors, but those inventions are also on par with Felicity's chip to run the ATOM suit, her facial recognition algorithm that has been integrated into the ATOM suit, STAR Labs and team Arrow computer systems, and all the other advanced data mining she does to give Team Arrow and Team Flash a clue how and where to do their vigilante jobs.  Felicity has also built a legacy "in the light".  She matters to the people she fights to employ and the people she helps by making medical devices accessible - that is her legacy, no matter whose name is on the company sign.

Because the show keeps on hammering that it's all about Ray's Legacy because it's Ray's company. It's Curtis's inventions. Even the spinal chip was what he did, and the plan to make it affordable is not something the show is promoting as a good idea. Or even much of an idea at all. And before that it was Oliver's company. And the company was never failing it was just financially mismanaged by the last 3 CEOs and sent into financial trouble by its involvement in the undertaking & that CEOs criminal happenings. Nevermind it was initially driven into the ground by Isobel, without Slade's evil plan QC probably would have survived but the show needed it on its knees to bring in Ray. The company was always resourceful and good at what they produced. And when they did need a financial save in s4 they pulled out Ray or Curtis's battery, not a FS wonder code or invention.

Everything you wrote in your post is what I love about FS, but I want it to be about her in s5. I want it explicitly said that FS is a great CEO, inventor in her own right, and this is what she has laid out as a vision. I don't want it associated with Oliver, Ray or Curtis. Like you've listed she has some amazing talents and I want them to be attributed to her. She has some legacy moments but they are all connected to a guy. It's about time she has a legacy not connected to a guy, she is that smart and talented.

Edited May 25, 2016 by kismet