Felicity Smoak: Bitch With Wifi

[poetgirl925]

From the spoilers thread

There is that scene in the episode before she finds Oliver in her backseat, she goes to the Big Belly Burger to meet Oliver. She asks him, "Can I trust you?" She goes on to point out that he's laid down some pretty obvious lies and yet she still feels like she can trust him.  She even asks him (and probably herself) "Why's that?"  Oliver answers with a flippant Oh, I've just got that kind of face which really disappoints Felicity and Olive immediately apologizes and says seriously, yes, she could trust him.

 

So for Felicity, she trusted Oliver even when it made no sense to her, but she still did and I think it's safe to say that her trust in him proved justified.  Still it's fascinating that their connection was written as if on some unexplainable innate level even only half way into season one. 

 

Why did she trust him?  Why did he trust her? 

 

He wasn't even trying it seems to make up believable cover stories.  It comes across almost like he's making up reasons to go see her. 

 

So why did she trust him?  Maybe because he was trusting her. 

 

Or the smile.  It might have been the rare sighting of the real smile of Oliver Queen.

Since we know she grew up in Vegas, I get the idea that she knows how to spot liars and disingenuous behavior. I always got the impression Oliver had difficulty hiding from her. And as you pointed out, maybe he didn't even want to. I'd love it if, at some point, the writers revisit their early interactions and have Oliver and Felicity discuss why he trusted her and why she trusted him. (There was a spoiler that hinted to this, but I don't know how to tag spoilers, so I won't add it here.) I think you're right that Oliver kept going to her for more reasons than just needing information. Oliver did hint in two episodes (Dodger and Three Ghosts) that he had done his research on Felicity and Diggle, so I assume he was already thinking of bringing Felicity in before he got shot. At the same time, he doesn't seem to know a lot about Felicity's past. Or does he? He seemed surprised when she said her father abandoned her, anyway.

And as others have said here, we don't necessarily need flashbacks to determine why Felicity joined the team or why she kept Oliver's secret, but I find the psychology of how the past informs the present very interesting. We're seeing the people and decisions that turned Oliver into the vigilante in the past, and we're seeing the people and decisions influencing his path to hero in the present. We saw how Diggle's time as a soldier and things he had to do there influenced his decision to join Oliver instead of turn him in, and the need to find out what happened to his brother adds another layer to his mission.

So in the same way, finding out about Felicity's past and what drove her to make certain decisions will add more layers to an already interesting character. Her dad walked out, so we can assume that's why loyalty is so important to her. She didn't want to end up like her mother, so she made plans to get out of Vegas. I'm assuming they weren't rich, so daughter of cocktail waitress goes to MIT is very ambitious. I'm leaning towards thinking her mother didn't encourage her ambitions based on Felicity's "My mother is... my mother" comment, but someone must have encouraged her love of computers from such an early age. How and why did she learn hacking? Was she hacking for another greater good in the past? I can kind of see Felicity yanking strings here and there to right something she saw as wrong. I could even see her having been some kind of hacktivist in the past. Like Diggle she seems to have a strong moral code, but she still saw the good in Oliver and what he was doing despite him being a killer in S1. And just like Diggle's past informed his decision to help Oliver, I feel like Felicity's past has informed her decisions as well. I still love that talk she had with Diggle in The Odyssey. These are the reasons I'm really looking forward to her flashbacks and meeting her mother and why I think they have something to add to the story.

[Password]

@poetgirl925 I agree with your entire post. Why would such a normal girl think joining Oliver on his crusade is a good idea? Particularly now that she's faced life and death situations. I look forward to learning more of who she is through where she's been.

[Angel12d]

I never really questioned why Felicity so easily joined Team Arrow. We knew from previous episodes that she hated mysteries and had to solve them and so when Oliver kept coming to her with all these stupid stories, she questioned it. She thought about it a lot. So that's why her lack of surprise about Oliver being The Hood was believable to me.

 

I think also with Digg being there she was able to get some perspective. She did ask plenty of questions and probably in that time while waiting for Oliver to wake up, she was able to solidify things in her head. 

 

Plus she's not a clean as she looks because she obviously has a long history of hacking so it's not exactly new to her. I do honestly think she intended to stay just to help find Walter but obviously that changed because she saw what good they were doing and the Team became an important part of her life.

[Password]

I think the only thing I question is why she stays after being put into such dangerous situations. She luuurve da danger. I'm convinced.

And absolutely yes she's not squeeky clean. "I've been dying to hack the FBI"? Please.

[Angel12d]

I think the only thing I question is why she stays after being put into such dangerous situations. She luuurve da danger. I'm convinced.

And absolutely yes she's not squeeky clean. "I've been dying to hack the FBI"? Please.

 

I see it as there being no choice for her sticking around, even when she's in danger. The Team (and Oliver) and what they're trying to achieve outweighs her need to be safe. It's part of her life now. She's adapted and she loves it. She feels part of a family, part of something important. I'm guessing here but if it was just her and her mom while she was growing up (and I get the feeling it wasn't a great mother/daughter relationship) then it makes sense that she's felt alone most of her life and then in comes Oliver and Digg and they become kind of a family and she's appreciated for what she does. She's loved. I don't think she'd ever leave, even after what happens to her 301.

[statsgirl]

From the Heartaches thread:

I do think Felicity sees herself as an underling/subordinate. Her blowup at Oliver in 2x10 is fairly similar to when she blows up at Walter in s01. She knows when she's being treated unfairly and doesn't tolerate it. She sticks up for herself. However, when Oliver apologizes and tells her she's a vital part of his mission and she takes it as praise for being really good at her job and even refers to herself as an employee

One of the great things about Felicity is how complex a character she became so quickly. I don't know if it was the writing, the potential with a clean slate or EBR herself but she quickly got up to Moira-level of complexity.

 

I see Felicity as being someone who knows she's good at what she does. You want hacking, or spying or fixing anything to do with computers, she's the best and she makes sure people around her know it, and that they need to treat her with respect.

 

But emotionally, that's another thing.  She doesn't seem to have family except her mother who is.. her mother so it's possible she doesn't think she's lovable, or at least not lovable like the cool girls at school. She was probably way smarter than more kids in her school and stuck out and not in a good way. Her line "At last I get a guy who is interested in me and he ends up in a coma" is not the remark of a woman who knows that there are lots more fish in the sea for her.  She babbles and she knows that she babbles, she's made peace with it because it's all she can do, but hasn't accepted it in herself as okay, i.e. not like Scarlett O'Hara who thought that her mannerisms were charming.

 

With Oliver and Diggle and now Sara and Roy, she's finally found a family where she fits in and who value her.  The cost to her of losing that (i.e. Moira's threat) was huge, far bigger than the cost of losing her job at QC, but she was willing to risk it to do the right thing. They did a pretty good job in s2 of showing how brave Felicity really is.

 

Yes, she is an underling, to Walter who is her boss and could fire her, and to Oliver who is The Arrow and keeps her around because he wants her around, not becuase there is anything making him keep her.  She saw herself as the equivalent of his employee and being told that she's his partner was huge.

 

And absolutely yes she's not squeeky clean. "I've been dying to hack the FBI"? Please. And absolutely yes she's not squeeky clean. "I've been dying to hack the FBI"? Please.

To a hacker, that's not really breaking the law. Well it is breaking the law but it's not breaking THE LAW.I

 

It's not like pumping arrows into someone, or trying to level the town.

[poetgirl925]

I see it as there being no choice for her sticking around, even when she's in danger. The Team (and Oliver) and what they're trying to achieve outweighs her need to be safe. It's part of her life now. She's adapted and she loves it. She feels part of a family, part of something important. I'm guessing here but if it was just her and her mom while she was growing up (and I get the feeling it wasn't a great mother/daughter relationship) then it makes sense that she's felt alone most of her life and then in comes Oliver and Digg and they become kind of a family and she's appreciated for what she does. She's loved. I don't think she'd ever leave, even after what happens to her 301.

I definitely think she believes 100% in Oliver, Diggle and what she's helping them accomplish. And we can make reasonable assumptions about her not being that surprised by Oliver being the vigilante, her joining the team, staying even when things get rocky. Even without a backstory we've seen her evolve as a character, so it's not that I question those things. It's more that getting inside her head more will help me round out the character instead of having to make so many educated guesses. I've probably spent more time thinking about her than any other character. She rarely talks to anyone besides Diggle and Oliver and rarely talks about personal things. The psychology of Felicity Smoak fascinates me, really. It's kind of rare for me to be this into a single character. Did she have any serious boyfriends? I'm guessing no? Maybe one? Has she always been a loner, as she seems to be in Starling City? Surely there was a friend somewhere. She specifically said in The Odyssey that she wanted to go back to her boring life as an IT girl after they found Walter. It kind of makes me wonder - did she intentionally choose a 'boring IT girl' career? Smart people like her who graduated from MIT can do better than IT grunt, even for major companies. And if she intentionally chose a boring career path - why? Was she into some things before that weren't so boring? Perhaps something tied to her hacking, her MIT days, etc? I feel like every bit of information they drop about her just leads to more questions, so I'm over the moon that we're about to get answers to at least a few of these.

I've seen people (hello haters lol) say she's not a real character because we don't know what she does on weekends, but we don't really know what any of them do on weekends, do we? We mostly see all the characters working or mission-oriented, though we do at least see them with family or significant others, which Felicity doesn't have. Oliver made references to basketball, so I can see him watching a game with Diggle. Laurel was listening to music on her mp3 player. She and Felicity both seem to like wine. They probably both read? Felicity was listening to music in the Bose mini episodes. I'm guessing Thea likes fashion and Roy had boxing gloves in an episode. We get hints at outside interests but that's about it. I might get some hints of Laurel's likes/dislikes from things in her apartment. I can't really remember much of her apartment, but if they show me Felicity's apartment? I'll probably be going through it frame by frame lol. I would like some references to personal likes, for example, but we don't need huge chunks of time devoted to that with this type of show. But a flashback here and there would likely provide a wealth of information about what goes on in her head and why she's okay operating in the grey areas as Team Arrow does.

[Password]

I definitely think she believes 100% in Oliver, Diggle and what she's helping them accomplish. And we can make reasonable assumptions about her not being that surprised by Oliver being the vigilante, her joining the team, staying even when things get rocky. Even without a backstory we've seen her evolve as a character, so it's not that I question those things. It's more that getting inside her head more will help me round out the character instead of having to make so many educated guesses. I've probably spent more time thinking about her than any other character. She rarely talks to anyone besides Diggle and Oliver and rarely talks about personal things. The psychology of Felicity Smoak fascinates me, really. It's kind of rare for me to be this into a single character. Did she have any serious boyfriends? I'm guessing no? Maybe one? Has she always been a loner, as she seems to be in Starling City? Surely there was a friend somewhere. She specifically said in The Odyssey that she wanted to go back to her boring life as an IT girl after they found Walter. It kind of makes me wonder - did she intentionally choose a 'boring IT girl' career? Smart people like her who graduated from MIT can do better than IT grunt, even for major companies. And if she intentionally chose a boring career path - why? Was she into some things before that weren't so boring? Perhaps something tied to her hacking, her MIT days, etc? I feel like every bit of information they drop about her just leads to more questions, so I'm over the moon that we're about to get answers to at least a few of these.

I've seen people (hello haters lol) say she's not a real character because we don't know what she does on weekends, but we don't really know what any of them do on weekends, do we? We mostly see all the characters working or mission-oriented, though we do at least see them with family or significant others, which Felicity doesn't have. Oliver made references to basketball, so I can see him watching a game with Diggle. Laurel was listening to music on her mp3 player. She and Felicity both seem to like wine. They probably both read? Felicity was listening to music in the Bose mini episodes. I'm guessing Thea likes fashion and Roy had boxing gloves in an episode. We get hints at outside interests but that's about it. I might get some hints of Laurel's likes/dislikes from things in her apartment. I can't really remember much of her apartment, but if they show me Felicity's apartment? I'll probably be going through it frame by frame lol. I would like some references to personal likes, for example, but we don't need huge chunks of time devoted to that with this type of show. But a flashback here and there would likely provide a wealth of information about what goes on in her head and why she's okay operating in the grey areas as Team Arrow does.

 

Yes to all of this.

 

It's a really interesting point about her having a boring IT job when she's a genius. It makes me think her increased confidence will allow her to stretch her wings and branch out on her own e.g. consulting company. There's so much potential for goodness with Felicity that I can't wait to see what they do with her character.

 

Shoot even the bad should be interesting.

[poetgirl925]

Yes to all of this.

 

It's a really interesting point about her having a boring IT job when she's a genius. It makes me think her increased confidence will allow her to stretch her wings and branch out on her own e.g. consulting company. There's so much potential for goodness with Felicity that I can't wait to see what they do with her character.

 

Shoot even the bad should be interesting.

I feel like there's a story to her being a 'boring IT girl' since she went to MIT. Sure, she lacks confidence in her personal life but she's always seemed very confident in her IT skills. She knows she has a lot to offer there. I suppose that her being awkward and her tendency to ramble could have caused her to bomb some interviews, but lots of IT types are awkward. I used to work for an international software company before I decided to put my English degree to use, and part of my job was coordinating client projects with the IT guys and girls. At least half of them were very socially awkward and more comfortable with code than people, but they were hired for their computer skills rather than social skills. According to HR, a couple of those employees weren't so great in interviews either, but they were brilliant. So even assuming she bombed a couple of interviews, it's hard to believe her job at QC was the best she could do. The writers could have had her going to any 4 year university, but MIT is in another league. It seems significant to me.

[Password]

I feel like there's a story to her being a 'boring IT girl' since she went to MIT. Sure, she lacks confidence in her personal life but she's always seemed very confident in her IT skills.

 

I agree she seems very confident in her IT skills but when setting up a business, there's so much more at stake. Ray Palmer may give her the capital she needs to start or even just the push in that direction. Maybe Oliver will surprise us and give her both...you know once he sees past his own nose. If she's as socially awkward as she seems (I don't think she is) with the rambling and inappropriateness, starting something from scratch may well seem daunting, to even a genius.

 

Doing something "bigger" career wise with her degree may not be something she's ever really given thought.

[Angel12d]

The psychology of Felicity Smoak fascinates me, really. It's kind of rare for me to be this into a single character. Did she have any serious boyfriends? I'm guessing no? Maybe one? Has she always been a loner, as she seems to be in Starling City? Surely there was a friend somewhere. She specifically said in The Odyssey that she wanted to go back to her boring life as an IT girl after they found Walter. It kind of makes me wonder - did she intentionally choose a 'boring IT girl' career? Smart people like her who graduated from MIT can do better than IT grunt, even for major companies. And if she intentionally chose a boring career path - why? Was she into some things before that weren't so boring? Perhaps something tied to her hacking, her MIT days, etc? I feel like every bit of information they drop about her just leads to more questions, so I'm over the moon that we're about to get answers to at least a few of these.

I've seen people (hello haters lol) say she's not a real character because we don't know what she does on weekends, but we don't really know what any of them do on weekends, do we? We mostly see all the characters working or mission-oriented, though we do at least see them with family or significant others, which Felicity doesn't have. Oliver made references to basketball, so I can see him watching a game with Diggle. Laurel was listening to music on her mp3 player. She and Felicity both seem to like wine. They probably both read? Felicity was listening to music in the Bose mini episodes. I'm guessing Thea likes fashion and Roy had boxing gloves in an episode. We get hints at outside interests but that's about it. I might get some hints of Laurel's likes/dislikes from things in her apartment. I can't really remember much of her apartment, but if they show me Felicity's apartment? I'll probably be going through it frame by frame lol. I would like some references to personal likes, for example, but we don't need huge chunks of time devoted to that with this type of show. But a flashback here and there would likely provide a wealth of information about what goes on in her head and why she's okay operating in the grey areas as Team Arrow does.

 

She fascinates me too. And what amazes me is that although I'm looking forward to Felicity's backstory a great deal, and I can't wait to learn more about her, I don't NEED it to make her a complete character. EBR has taken this character and made her three dimensional and believable and loved with so very little and that is just incredible. So while I want the backstory to help fill in those little questions we have, I don't need it to make her real. She's already real and I love that about her.

 

Saying that, it is the right time to give us the answers. I can even buy that the reason it's taken so long to find out is because she doesn't like to talk about personal things but now she finally feels safe and accepted in a place where she can. I mean, I can infer so much from what little we know and that's great to speculate but at the same time it should be good to find out a little more.

 

Let's think about what we know already:

 

1) She built computers from age 7.

 

2) Mom is a cocktail waitress in Vegas

 

3) Dad abandoned her when she was young

 

4) She went to MIT

 

5) Had some lacrosse player who used to stalk her in college? I remember something about him camping in his car outside her house...

 

6) Hacker - more than competent so must have been doing it for years

 

It's not a great deal but there's little things here that off-shoots into so much more. Like if her mom was a cocktail waitress, how did Felicity end up building computers at such a young age? Did she learn hacking in Vegas or did she develop that at MIT? How did she afford MIT? How did she jump from MIT in Massachusetts to Starling City? It makes me wonder if she was head hunted. I wouldn't be surprised if that's what happened and they put her in IT with every intention of working her way up the career ladder. SO MANY THOUGHTS!

[poetgirl925]

I'm assuming she was a scholarship student since MIT isn't cheap. She definitely could have been head hunted, but someone with her skills and educational background would not normally be in the regular IT department. I mean, I'm just basing this on my time with the software and web development company I worked for, but it seems like a stretch unless she picked it for specific reasons (i.e. it's safe and boring, or some other reason we haven't been informed of yet.) Sure, she might not have had the capital or confidence to start her own company, but there's a big gap between starting your own company and run-of-the-mill IT girl. She could definitely have been doing something more exciting than what we saw her doing in S1.

I feel like she must have had another mentor besides her mother. Felicity's comments about her mother make me think Mom wasn't encouraging her to dream big. Seven is awfully young to be building computers unless she was in a gifted program at school or someone else recognized her talent and encouraged it. I'm guessing again but I think her hacking started before MIT. I have a friend who likes that kind of thing and he's been doing it since his early high school years.

I know it's a small thing in comparison, but I'm curious about the stalker lacrosse player and how she got rid of him. :)

[Angel12d]

I agree it doesn't make sense that someone with her skills would be in IT. She should have at least been running the IT department, that I would have believed. Although, if I remember correctly, it was implied that she was all but running it anyway only without the fancy title. 

 

Saying that, there have been plenty of shows where things don't add up logically so we might just have to let it slide that she was in IT even though she's better than that. I think maybe we're thinking too much about things they don't expect us to even consider. 

 

I'm also curious about the lacrosse player! Maybe she tutored him and that's how they met. I get the impression that she didn't realize her own beauty/power at college and probably had all these guys following after her lol.

[statsgirl]

Having good computer skills doesn't necessarily translate into having the skills to found a company.  IT is a recommended job for both people with ADHD and those with autism spectrum disorders, but ADHDers have trouble with organization and those with autism have difficulty dealing with people, both skills needed for running companies.

 

Replying on why Felicity left town in the Clocktower thread.

[foreverevolving]

Having good computer skills doesn't necessarily translate into having the skills to found a company.  IT is a recommended job for both people with ADHD and those with autism spectrum disorders, but ADHDers have trouble with organization and those with autism have difficulty dealing with people, both skills needed for running companies.

 

Replying on why Felicity left town in the Clocktower thread.

IT for a person with ADHD? who said that? i can see research as a job for someone with adhd (at least mild adhd, cause when it is a topic we're interested in we can get very focused on it and forget everything else. but i don't know how IT can work.

[fantique]

 As a Computer Science and Psychology double major (sigh...I know), I would say that's unlikely.

I am pretty sure ADHD would be one of the worst conditions to have as a computer scientist. Becasue ADHD means that task completion is extremely difficult if not almost impossible in its most acute forms. Coding, or even any IT related work in a company would be all about solving problems and it's almost always under the form of a project, with a specific task. So if someone can not focus on one thing for a long time especially as the process for CS projects is based on a lot of revisions and making sure that every single "," is where it is meant to be otherwise it won't work so I would be surprised. But then I don't specialise in ADHD so maybe I don't know enough about it but everything I learned points to this not being very likely.

 

I did think it was very interesting that she chose to be an IT girl with her high IQ. While I don't necessarily think that means she should be running a company, I am surprised she didn't choose to work for some consulting firm where they have interesting IT projects to develop for another company. That seems a lot more interesting and challenging for a programmer, I feel. Those companies are also tpyically smaller and chances to be noticed for good work and promoted on more challenging and interesting projects are much higher. It almost feels like she chose to be in a large company where she could go incognito. It feels like before Oliver and Walter she was doing everything to stay under the radar. Also, it was interesting that her first instinct about being summoned upstairs is that she is being fired because if she thinks her abilities are top notch, then she might suspect that it's because of an external factor. Just wondering out loud here...

Edited August 8, 2014 by fantique

[Ceylon5]

I'm wondering if maybe she thought she was going to be fired as a result of having helped Oliver in the previous episode.  She did say to Oliver that she didn't want to get into the middle of a whole Shakespearian family drama thing with his step-dad, so to suddenly be called up to said step-dad's office right on the heels of helping Oliver with his very dubious request must have set off all her alarm bells.

 

Or, as @fantique is implying, maybe she got up to some illegal hacking stuff in her younger days and has subsequently been trying to keep a low profile.

[Morrigan2575]

Honestly, I don't think people should read that much into Felicity being an IT person and graduating from MIT and having a genius IQ.  Remember, Felicity was supposed to be a one-off or (at most) minor recurring character that Oliver used for information from time to time.  I think they made Felicity a generic computer person because there wasn't much depth to the character.  As they started to expand her role they added the MIT and Genius IQ stuff but never worried about the original IT job.

[dtissagirl]

I agree that they gave Felicity generic TV computer person traits -- IT department, hacker, MIT and genius IQ. But when they mixed that with Vegas and counting cards, I can buy that maybe there is something shady in her past, and the IT job was her laying low for a while. [And then Oliver showed up and screwed with her plans. *g*] They kept her past as enough of a blank canvas that they can now complicate it in a lot of different ways now without it looking like a retcon.

 

ETA: I've also been wondering if the theme of identity that they're gonna explore in S3 isn't literal for Felicity. If "Felicity Smoak", for example, is a cover she created.

Of course, I might be just reading too much into the fact that they cast her mother, but made sure to say they were NOT divulging her name yet. It made me go "what if mama's name is not Smoak, but something else from the comics that would be telling?"

Edited August 8, 2014 by dancingnancy

[poetgirl925]

I agree that they gave Felicity generic TV computer person traits -- IT department, hacker, MIT and genius IQ. But when they mixed that with Vegas and counting cards, I can buy that maybe there is something shady in her past, and the IT job was her laying low for a while. [And then Oliver showed up and screwed with her plans. *g*] They kept her past as enough of a blank canvas that they can now complicate it in a lot of different ways now without it looking like a retcon.

Yes, this is what I've been thinking. In the beginning I'm sure she was supposed to be an average IT girl since she was only supposed to be in one episode. But then they gave her a backstory and they made 'genius' and 'Vegas' and 'MIT' part of that backstory, and I feel like they're going somewhere with it. And yes! to your spoiler because that is exactly what I've been thinking. It's almost like she was flying under the radar working fairly anonymously in a big company the way she was in S1. It would also explain why she seems to be a loner. I just can't believe she wouldn't have had at least one friend. Really, they can do anything with her and not have it be a retcon (unlike some of their other plots.) I can't believe we have to wait until November for her episode. *sigh*

Edited August 8, 2014 by poetgirl925

[Velocity23]

 

I had to post this here since i love that she took the shoes off so quickly for flip flops :)

[SleepDeprived]

Gosh, Emily Bett. How are you so adorable?

 

I think I like the former illegal hacker/Anonymous-type scenario for Felicity's backstory best. The show can certainly find creative ways to tie that in to her conspicuously-titled centric episode or, if DC had given them permission, to have Barbara Gordon be, somehow, her mentor/friend from MIT.

 

On the other hand, with all the talk on possible illegal activities that Felicity might've been involved in before becoming a regular IT tech in QC, I've been wondering if the show might try to find a way to connect her flashbacks, Vegas or Mama Smoak, with Roulette since I'm pretty sure Roulette should be one of the characters given the okay to use in the DC-TV 'verse. Especially since

Wildcat

is coming on to the show. I know they have

Ra's as the big bad of the season

and I'm excited about that, but I wouldn't say no to a mob-type episode with Roulette or any of the other organized crime families of DC where Team Arrow goes to Vegas. I just really want a Team Arrow goes to Vegas episode.

 

Either way, "The Secret Origins of Felicity Smoak" is definitely one of my most anticipated plot threads for S3. She's just a really fascinating character, to me.

[statsgirl]

When was the first time Oliver asked Felicity to do anything illegal?  She was slightly uncomfortable  when she found out the bullet-holed laptop wasn't his, she was okay with finding where the arrow had come from.  When he brought her the USB drive from the "scavenger hunt" and she found out it was security grade she was suspicious but hey, it was his story.  He didn't actually ask her to hack into anything illegal until after she had joined the Team.  

 

So while she was comfortable with hacking once she had signed on with Oliver and Diggle, that was for Walter and for the mission.  She hadn't done anything illegal before that that we know of.

 

On the other hand, she was pretty comfortable with Walter asking her to look into Moira's accounts, no questioning whether she should be doing it or not.  So I would expect some hacking in her past but for giggles, not felonies.

 As a Computer Science and Psychology double major (sigh...I know), I would say that's unlikely.

I am pretty sure ADHD would be one of the worst conditions to have as a computer scientist. Becasue ADHD means that task completion is extremely difficult if not almost impossible in its most acute forms. Coding, or even any IT related work in a company would be all about solving problems and it's almost always under the form of a project, with a specific task. So if someone can not focus on one thing for a long time especially as the process for CS projects is based on a lot of revisions and making sure that every single "," is where it is meant to be otherwise it won't work so I would be surprised. But then I don't specialise in ADHD so maybe I don't know enough about it but everything I learned points to this not being very likely.

If coding is your 'thing', the AHDH hyperfocus is going to be a bonus to getting the job done.  Also, working alone means that you don't have to decode the social cues that many ADHDers have trouble with, and constantly changing tasks appeals to the need for stimulation.  Here are a couple of articles by Russell Barkley (mentions computing specifically) and Edward Hallowell with suggestions.  (If you're interested in more, you can PM me because professionally ADHD is one of my areas.) 

[TwistedandBored]

Emily looks beautiful.

[Ceylon5]

When was the first time Oliver asked Felicity to do anything illegal?  She was slightly uncomfortable  when she found out the bullet-holed laptop wasn't his, she was okay with finding where the arrow had come from.  When he brought her the USB drive from the "scavenger hunt" and she found out it was security grade she was suspicious but hey, it was his story.  He didn't actually ask her to hack into anything illegal until after she had joined the Team.  

 

So while she was comfortable with hacking once she had signed on with Oliver and Diggle, that was for Walter and for the mission.  She hadn't done anything illegal before that that we know of.

 

On the other hand, she was pretty comfortable with Walter asking her to look into Moira's accounts, no questioning whether she should be doing it or not.  So I would expect some hacking in her past but for giggles, not felonies.

 

If I recall correctly, wasn't it her hacks that she did for Oliver at QC (before she was officially on the Team) that enabled Det. Lance's tech guy to identify her (after her attempt to hack Merlyn Global), which is why Lance took her in for questioning?  It's not actually legal to hack into people's private networks (e.g. to find out where the arrow came from, or to get past the security company's defences).  It's not going to create as much of a furore as hacking into a bank or a government database, perhaps, but it's still illegal (the cyber version of breaking into someone's house or office).

 

Felicity strikes me as the kind of person who loves a challenge and a new puzzle to solve.  I think she gets huge intellectual gratification from hacking (e.g. her saying she'd been dying to hack into the FBI), and that's mostly her motivation for it.  She likes to have a good reason to put herself in a potentially compromising situation (which is why she didn't just randomly hack into the FBI, but waited until she had a reason to do so), but I think she does it mainly because she really enjoys it.  Oliver and Walter both gave her the gift of a reason that she considered good enough (and I think she has a pretty low bar for this) to be able to do stuff she likes doing.  Her desire to solve the puzzle far outweighs her scruples regarding the legality of how she goes about it.  She errs more on the side of "can I do this without being caught?" than "it's wrong to break the law, woe is me".  So, I think if opportunities had come up in her past the same way as they have in her present, I can see her having done some stuff that could get her into trouble.

Edited August 9, 2014 by Ceylon5

[icandigit]

She felt pretty comfortable when she fixed that guys parking ticket.Hacking could have been a hobby she did not engage in prior to team arrow.

[poetgirl925]

If I recall correctly, wasn't it her hacks that she did for Oliver at QC (before she was officially on the Team) that enabled Det. Lance's tech guy to identify her (after her attempt to hack Merlyn Global), which is why Lance took her in for questioning?  It's not actually legal to hack into people's private networks (e.g. to find out where the arrow came from, or to get past the security company's defences).  It's not going to create as much of a furore as hacking into a bank or a government database, perhaps, but it's still illegal (the cyber version of breaking into someone's house or office).

 

Felicity strikes me as the kind of person who loves a challenge and a new puzzle to solve.  I think she gets huge intellectual gratification from hacking (e.g. her saying she'd been dying to hack into the FBI), and that's mostly her motivation for it.  She likes to have a good reason to put herself in a potentially compromising situation (which is why she didn't just randomly hack into the FBI, but waited until she had a reason to do so), but I think she does it mainly because she really enjoys it.  Oliver and Walter both gave her the gift of a reason that she considered good enough (and I think she has a pretty low bar for this) to be able to do stuff she likes doing.  Her desire to solve the puzzle far outweighs her scruples regarding the legality of how she goes about it.  She errs more on the side of "can I do this without being caught?" than "it's wrong to break the law, woe is me".  So, I think if opportunities had come up in her past the same way as they have in her present, I can see her having done some stuff that could get her into trouble.

I think this is probably true. I know one person who likes hacking, and as far as I can tell it's the challenge he enjoys. Thankfully he put his expertise to work for good. He tests cyber security for companies. Occasionally he hacks my FB page to show how easy it is. (If I hadn't known him for so long that would probably worry me.) He learned hacking early, though - around age 14 or 15. He's gotten up to a few less-than-legal activities over the years but never for malicious reasons. There are all kinds of hacker forums online but they're not all black hat. He was a hacktivist at one time when he was a university student. What he was doing was, again, not exactly legal but he always considered himself a white hat hacker. When I was researching cyber goth he put me in contact with a female hacktivist in that scene, and I got the impression she viewed herself the same way. This fits what we've seen of Felicity being willing to do legally questionable things for what she considers the greater good - that's white hat hacking right there and fits the philosophy of hacktivism. Maybe I'm off base, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to find out she's dabbled in this before, especially given what we know about her flashbacks and where they take place.

[wonderwall]

Felicity: “do I have my own identity?” - x

 

 

I actually don't mind this 'identity crisis' because it makes sense to me. Felicity, imo, has been one to let her work consume her. While she has shown her dedication towards the Arrow and her boys, Mission Arrow has taken over her life, thus I can see her wonder whether she actually has her own identity anymore. Is this a bad thing? No, so long as she grows from being solely a member of team Arrow to being her own person who has a life outside the Arrow. 

 

While we know Felicity has her own identity, it doesn't mean she knows this. It would be realistic to see her feel as though she's lost her footing a bit on the show. It's only human I suppose. 

Edited August 9, 2014 by wonderwall

[tv echo]

In an article linked by dancingnancy in the Green Arrow In Comics thread, there was mention of the bios for Felicity and Diggle that were released on CW Arrow’s facebook timed with Season 2.  I had forgotten about them.  It's interesting to read Felicity's profile at that time, now that we know what happened in Season 2:

 

 

AGE: 25
PROFILE: AN M.I.T. GRADUATE AND SELF-DESCRIBED UBER-HACKER WITH A MYSTERIOUS PAST, FELICITY SMOAK IS THE MOST RECENT ADDITION TO THE ARROW'S TEAM AND JUST AS DETERMINED AS OLIVER AND DIGGLE TO SAVE STARLING CITY FROM THOSE WHO SEEK TO DESTROY IT.  OPTIMISTIC AND DISARMINGLY CHARMING, FELICITY IS SWEETLY NAIVE ENOUGH TO SEE THE GOOD IN EVERYONE, BUT HER HOPEFULNESS COULD LEAD TO HEARTBREAK WHEN HER LONG-STANDING CRUSH ON OLIVER THREATENS TO COMPLICATE THEIR RELATIONSHIP, AS WELL AS HER BELOVED JOB AS THE ARROW'S RESIDENT COMPUTER GENIUS.

Edited August 13, 2014 by tv echo

[wonderwall]

I was watching Emily Bett's interviews and was interested to find that she actually holds herself really well considering she's completely new to this. EBR doesn't divulge any spoilers, she knows her character like she knows her own name (heh, sorry  I couldn't resist), and when she gets asked about Felicity's relationship with Oliver, she tends to steer the conversation into a different direction because EBR doesn't know what the future holds for Felicity and Oliver so she talks about what she would like to see more of from her character or other love interests so she doesn't make any promises or give false hope. 

 

She's truly a class act and I hope we get to see more interviews from EBR in the future!

[NumberCruncher]

I appreciate that about her too, @wonderwall.  She is cool about the 'shipping talk and jokes around with fans about it, but she makes it clear that she doesn't want Felicity only defined by her relationship with Oliver.  I still love that she fought so hard to keep her glasses and to wear her hair in a ponytail because that's, in part, what makes Felicity who she is.

[wonderwall]

I've been seeing people claim that Felicity is a lot of the times, a damsel in distress along with Laurel. Upon seeing these comments I would tend to agree with these people. However, I never was annoyed with Felicity being a DiD than I did with Laurel. Before anyone thinks I have any double standards, I have reasons why. 

 

It's almost in Felicity's job description to be constantly put in danger. While some of the things she does is sort of stupid (2x06 when she went looking for the Vertigo herself), we never see her make that same mistake again. Felicity is usually put in danger by choice whereas danger keeps finding Laurel (people bursting through her unlocked doors) yet she doesn't learn from her mistakes. 

 

While Felicity can be a DiD at times, she makes that up with competency. Felicity is put in danger a lot, but she makes up for it by saving everyone around her countless times as well. While Felicity isn't a fighter, she plays to her strengths in order to help the people around her and I find that admirable. On the other hand, we haven't seen Laurel do the same (not really). I feel as though Laurel is an extremely flat character in that sense.  While I understand she may become BC, if you just look at the series as a standalone, you can see that she doesn't add to the complexity of the story because she's just a DiD and Oliver's potential love interest. Laurel never really saved anyone, nor did she contribute anything positive to society over the past two years. While she's supposedly a good-doer and seeks justice, we've never seen this come to play. 

 

So yeah, while I'm okay with Felicity sometimes being a DiD (because she gives back as much as she takes), I get frustrated with Laurel being the same thing...

 

Does that make sense? Or am I being unfair? 

[NumberCruncher]

Everyone on the show has been a "DiD" situation at one point or another (and yes, that even includes the men--Walter, Roy, Diggle, etc.).  Oliver hasn't been immune to it either considering the many times Diggle and Felicity have had to save his ass.  Hey, it's just that type of show, so it doesn't bother me in the least since that's what I signed up for by watching Arrow in the first place.  As with every other criticism of the show and its characters, people tend to see fault in that which they dislike and ignore the same in that which they love.  I think everyone does it to a certain extent (including myself).  In Felicity's case, sure she has had plenty of DiD distress moments, but I like that they have been balanced pretty well by the times when she has kept others out of danger (e.g. saving Oliver when he was shot, hacking computers to destroy evidence, taking a bullet for Sara, injecting Slade, tracing phone calls to save Walter, running over Isabel with the van to save Dig, blah, blah, blah...).  Laurel has had her moments of heroism too--I just don't tend to focus on them as much because I don't find her character all that interesting.  I'm sure that's the case for those who don't find Felicity all that engaging either.

 

I think the big criticism of Felicity's predicament is in large part due to her strength not being physical in nature.  Most audiences tend to define "kickass" women as those who can fight hand-to-hand rather than fight with their minds like Felicity does.  Just because she can't defend herself against a villain twice her size doesn't mean she's any less kickass because what she lacks in physical strength she more than makes up for it by being the competent "Bitch with wi-fi".

Edited August 15, 2014 by NumberCruncher

[wonderwall]

@NumberCruncher, since I blank out on all Laurel scenes, other than Laurel hitting the mirakudude in the head and saving Oliver and Tommy way back when in season 1, when was she heroic? 

[doesntworkonwood]

One of the reasons that I love Felicity is actually because she's not what I would normally expect in a 'Strong Female Character.'

 

A lot of the times writers (usually male) will write the archetypal 'Strong Female Character' in an attempt to show how feminist they are, but these characters aren't really fleshed out. They become a mass of stereotypes (can physically 'kickass', usually intelligent in a non-nerdy way, gets along with the guys, is practically a guy in disguise...). All of the women end up being exactly the same character with a different face.

 

Arrow does a really good job of avoiding this. I'd consider Moira, Felicity, Sara and Shado incredibly strong women. Throughout this season (and definitely next) we'll be watching Thea become strong both physically and emotionally. But none of these women are the same. They have broad links (they're all intelligent, Sara and Shado can physically fight, they're all brave), but these qualities are exhibited in such different ways that there is no mistaking any of the characters for the other (unlike other shows, which I may be bitter about.)

 

Part of the reason I like Felicity is that I consider her to be really easy to identify with. Superficially, she's a nerd with an interest maths and computing, who is better at communicating through a screen than with her mouth. These are all traits that we both share, but other traits such as her braveness, her strong sense of morality, the fact that she can look Moira in the eye, are all aspirational traits. I both see myself in her and want to be more like her, and that's the reason she's become my favourite character, and I think that's how you make such a likable (to a lot) character. 

[poetgirl925]

To be fair, Felicity has the benefit of knowing the truth and being a full time member of the team. That automatically gives her a lot of opportunities to be involved without resorting to DiD and it gives her a lot of opportunities to save everyone else. As long as it's balanced, I don't automatically hate it every time it happens because it's a superhero show. The DiD trope has been fairly well spread out among the team members - Roy needed saving in S1 and S2. Oliver needed saving in S1 and S2. Diggle needed saving in S1 and in S2. Felicity has helped save all of them at some point. I haven't counted, but I feel like Oliver's been DiD more than all the others. A few of Felicity's DiD moments - The Dodger, the casino episode in S1, The Dollmaker, the S2 finale - were directly related to active missions. If she makes herself the bait as part of the plan, especially like Dollmaker and the S2 finale, I expect DiD situations may occur. She made a mistake in Dodger but it's forgivable because she was in a crowded room and she has no experience with those situations. She probably thought she was safe. In State vs. Queen very like Felicity (IMO at least) to try to help because Diggle was too sick to go out and Oliver couldn't leave the trial, but I always thought it was odd that Diggle allowed it no matter how sick he was. Then she apologized immediately, so it showed she understood the gravity of her mistake. This is actually why I didn't like her running off alone in Time of Death. Technically she wasn't the DiD because she saved Sara, and she did call the team in, but initially going alone seemed like disregarding previous lessons learned. I'm sure she will be the DiD again in S3 just like the others. As long as they don't get lazy and resort to plot driven character too much or end up in Lana Lang territory, I'm not too bothered by it. However, I would like to see a little self defense training going on, especially if she's in the field.

Also, I don't know if this has come up before, but apparently it's possible to hack using a tablet. I thought that was just made up tbh, but a friend told me it's possible - not with a standard out-of-the-box tablet, though. You'd need to make some modifications. And not with Windows - you'd need something called an open source OS so it's not traceable by people like the NSA, and he said it would probably be better to be Linux based. Apparently there are companies working on tablets like this for mass market, but my friend said someone good with computers could modify their own. Most hackers on the go use modified netbooks, but the hacker's tablet is the up-and-coming thing. Guess I have to stop rolling my eyes whenever I see Felicity using her tablet to hack things. :)

[wonderwall]

I agree. Felicity isn't an overly explicit badass as Sara is, however, people shouldn't discount her strength because while she may not be a fighter, she's emotionally and mentally strong and is usually the one to hold the team up when it's crumbling at the seams (Eg. When Digg quit the team, Oliver's emotional meltdowns, keeping the truth from Roy so he doesn't feel guilt when he tries to save Starling etc.) I don't know why people don't understand that it's also strenght when Felicity sees so much death and destruction and yet remains optimistic, loyal, and good. It's strength when Felicity conquers her fear of heights and needles and then some when saving the people she cares about as well as the city. 

 

A classic case of how people interpret badass as being a figher is in Game of Thrones (both book and show). People adore Arya and loathe Sansa because Arya literally kicks ass whereas Sansa plays the game of thrones with subtlety. These girls play to their strengths in order to stay alive, with Arya, it's using her sword, with Sansa, it's being a proper lady. IMO, Sansa is a lot stronger than Arya mentally and emotionally and that has nothing to do with age.

[dtissagirl]

I don't even think the times Felicity offered herself up as bait qualify as damseling. She's done that 3 times, if I'm remembering them all? The casino, the Dollmaker, and Slade. To me that's not damseling, it's using the evil dudes *expectation* of her being a DiD -- i.e. dudes tend to underestimate the tiny blonde woman -- against them.

[poetgirl925]

I agree - some of the DiD moments don't count with Felicity because they were mission related. Slade in the finale especially - that was an exceptional moment of the bad guy's expectations leading to his downfall, and he clearly thought Felicity posed a zero threat factor. Unfortunately, if (when) he gets out he's probably going to want her dead first thing. :/

[dtissagirl]

I think I have a more strict definition of what a Damsel in Distress is. For me, it's not just when a woman is in danger, but when she's put in peril to advance the narrative of a dude. It has nothing to do with the woman herself, and it's usually done to punish or defy the Hero Of The Story.

 

Felicity is in a team of crime-fighting vigilantes, so of course she's gonna be in danger a whole bunch of times. When she offers herself up as bait, there's the expectation that her team will get her out of it. When she gets in trouble during a planned team mission, again, she expects Dig and Oliver to have her back. I think the only time she got legit damseled was The Count, because ultimately, that situation was used to advance Oliver's character arc.

 

Laurel and Thea, otoh, get damseled all. the. freaking. time. because their multiple kidnappings have never really been about them -- they're all about advancing Oliver's storyline [and the Dollmaker kidnapped Laurel because he wanted to screw with Quentin]. I think that is problematic because they haven't signed up to fight crime. So they're stripped of their will and made into objects so that Our Hero can have a saving moment. And I feel it's made worse because it's done to advance Oliver's arc while he's actively hiding a truck load of crap from them, that could have helped them avoid being damseled in the first place.

Edited August 15, 2014 by dancingnancy

[poetgirl925]

Well, I don't know what the technical definition of DiD is. For me as a viewer, DiD also qualifies if a female character makes unwise decisions or they're often reckless and it leads to them being damseled and in need of rescue. (Some of the Smallville ladies were notorious for this.) That could also apply to a male character, which I call Dude in Distress. The Lana, Laurel and Thea types further the hero story/agenda because they're being used against him, although Lana and Laurel types also seem to just attract trouble.

To most viewers, they see 'woman needs to be saved' as DiD, but it's not always the case. Felicity especially doesn't always meet the definition because if it's team related, it's not technically DiD. The Count was a DiD situation, but I imagine he would have just killed her if he hadn't figured out he could use her against Oliver. They've shown a tendency for Felicity to be impulsive - Dodger, The Count, The Clock King - so to me it's a character flaw. And that's okay since real people have flaws. They should have flaws because flaws can make them interesting. While it didn't really result in Felicity as DiD, Time of Death was just so badly written that I didn't like it. It felt wrong for Felicity to run off like that on her own since the last time resulted in Oliver killing someone. And while she saved the day, it felt unnecessary? The team probably could have handled it if she had called them earlier and made a team plan instead of everyone just reacting. If she hadn't distracted Sara, the Clock King might not have gotten the jump on her. Basically, it all felt like a convoluted way to give Felicity a scar, which... why? So I hate inorganic plots that force female characters into the hero role as much as I hate DiD tbh. (They did this with Laurel in the sewers with Oliver as well - Streets of Fire?) I'm always rooting for the ladies to be the heroes, like in the finale, but not if means they make a dumb decision that just happens to turn out well.

[Ceylon5]

I agree, .  And in addition, the finale didn't count as a DiD situation by any definition.  She was acting as a Trojan Horse, with her and Oliver working as a team.  He couldn't take down Slade if she didn't administer the cure, and she needed Oliver to fight Slade once she'd administered the cure.  Both roles were required for the plan to succeed, just as the warriors hiding inside the Trojan Horse were needed to open the gates and let the rest of the Greek army into Troy.  I don't think anyone has ever accused the warriors in the Trojan Horse of being DiD's in need of rescuing just because they couldn't defeat an entire city on their own!

Edited August 15, 2014 by Ceylon5

[NumberCruncher]

@NumberCruncher, since I blank out on all Laurel scenes, other than Laurel hitting the mirakudude in the head and saving Oliver and Tommy way back when in season 1, when was she heroic?

She wielded the shotgun at the dude trying to kill the orphan boy she was protecting back in S1, and if I remember correctly, she saved Oliver in S2 when she shot the guy impersonating Brother Blood. I guess an argument could be made that she sort of saved Oliver in the S2 penultimate episode even though he had to guide her through shooting the exploding arrow. I'm sure there are others, but as I said, I don't actively look for them in her case like I tend to do while watching Felicity (whom I find so fascinating).

ETA: I totally agree that Felicity intentionally being used as bait shouldn't count as a DiD situation any more than Diggle offering himself up to the dangers of the Russian gulag to save Lyla.

Edited August 15, 2014 by NumberCruncher

[statsgirl]

Agatha Christie, in one of her Tommy and Tuppence stories,  had Tuppence say that if you get a mysterious note telling you to meet someone in a dangerous or deserted place and you just show up without checking it out, you deserve what you get. That's my rule of thumb for DiD.

 

Oliver has had to save Roy a few times too, from the guy on the subway, Blood and later from being Slade's vending machine.

 

To most viewers, they see 'woman needs to be saved' as DiD, but it's not always the case. Felicity especially doesn't always meet the definition because if it's team related, it's not technically DiD. The Count was a DiD situation, but I imagine he would have just killed her if he hadn't figured out he could use her against Oliver. They've shown a tendency for Felicity to be impulsive - Dodger, The Count, The Clock King - so to me it's a character flaw. And that's okay since real people have flaws. They should have flaws because flaws can make them interesting. While it didn't really result in Felicity as DiD, Time of Death was just so badly written that I didn't like it. It felt wrong for Felicity to run off like that on her own since the last time resulted in Oliver killing someone. And while she saved the day, it felt unnecessary? The team probably could have handled it if she had called them earlier and made a team plan instead of everyone just reacting. If she hadn't distracted Sara, the Clock King might not have gotten the jump on her. Basically, it all felt like a convoluted way to give Felicity a scar, which... why? So I hate inorganic plots that force female characters into the hero role as much as I hate DiD tbh. 

I think they did this with the best of intentions, to provide Felicity with a growth arc (she wasn't jealous of Sara sleeping with Oliver, she was upset because Sara was better at her job (fighter, blood tech) while Felicity was failing at hers. I think it would have worked better if they had left the scar part out of it though.

 

At least when Felicity puts  herself in danger, it's because she's doing it for the team, and because they give her kind of a reason to (bait for the Dollmaker, no one else available with The Count, ditto with the Clockmaker plus needing to prove herself).   For Laurel, it's too often been because they had to find a way to insert her into the story.

Edited August 16, 2014 by statsgirl

[TanyaKay]

The Felicity centric episode is now called "The Secret Origins of Felicity Smoak."

It is usually super heroes who get their origin stories. Would Felicity Smoak be joining the league of heroes of is this just a title of an episode?

 

secret or no secret, I am quite looking forward to her back story and her interaction with Mama Smoak. Should be a lot of fun.

Edited August 19, 2014 by TanyaKay

[KirkB]

I have been hearing it suggested that Felicity Smoak probably isn't her real name and a title like that seems to suggest it's true.

[Morrigan2575]

I've seen that speculation elsewhere and im curious. Not sure I buy it but it could be fun to try and figure it out.

[BkWurm1]

I even made the suggestion myself  but I wouldn't expect her to be someone we would know, more like she's saddled with a terrible name like Bambi Lamb and chose to reinvent herself when she went to MIT. 

[Password]

I even made the suggestion myself  but I wouldn't expect her to be someone we would know, more like she's saddled with a terrible name like Bambi Lamb and chose to reinvent herself when she went to MIT.

Bambi Lamb, oh my word that's precious.

[statsgirl]

It does sound as if there is more to Felicity Smoak than we've thought, although not too much more I hope.

 

It's also good p.r. for the episode since she's so popular, especially if she's not that much in the previous ones (not a spoiler, just speculating).