Law & Order: Criminal Intent - General Discussion

[Xeliou66]

13 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

I get the episode had to end, but I thought Milo just seemingly accepting Jordy as his father and hugging him and all that was unrealistic. I mean, Milo thought his father died in a plane crash, and yet here he is, the family friend that basically comes and goes?

I think Milo would be angry as hell, especially adding his addiction issues into the mix...

Yeah I was unsure about whether Milo would accept Jordy as his father - Milo did like Jordy, but yeah it seems like Milo would have some resentment about Jordy never saying anything about being his father. And why exactly did the victim not want Milo spending time with Jordy? Was it because she knew Jordy was Milo’s father and had issues with him over that, or did she buy into the narrative that Jordy was a pervert? 

[WendyCR72]

10 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yeah I was unsure about whether Milo would accept Jordy as his father - Milo did like Jordy, but yeah it seems like Milo would have some resentment about Jordy never saying anything about being his father. And why exactly did the victim not want Milo spending time with Jordy? Was it because she knew Jordy was Milo’s father and had issues with him over that, or did she buy into the narrative that Jordy was a pervert? 

If I were to guess [and that is all it would be!], I'm thinking Jordy's addictions were probably a factor. Ironic since their kid was already following in Jordy's footsteps.

[WendyCR72]

I do still wonder - as we had discussed - at just how not only Kevin Mulrooney not only managed to fool a bunch of guys dressed as a woman (which, okay, maybe possible...) but SOUND like one? I just can't see (err...hear!) it...

(Yes, "Lady's Man" is on WE now.)

P.S. One thing I haven't commented upon: the woman at the dry cleaner's was such a salty witch to Eames. LOL!

[Xeliou66]

13 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

I do still wonder - as we had discussed - at just how not only Kevin Mulrooney not only managed to fool a bunch of guys dressed as a woman (which, okay, maybe possible...) but SOUND like one? I just can't see (err...hear!) it...

(Yes, "Lady's Man" is on WE now.)

P.S. One thing I haven't commented upon: the woman at the dry cleaner's was such a salty witch to Eames. LOL!

Yeah Lady’s Man was somewhat hard to understand and I didn’t completely grasp Mulrooney’s motives for doing all of this - was he just completely unhinged? One of CI’s weirdest episodes and that’s saying something. 

[peacheslatour]

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yeah Lady’s Man was somewhat hard to understand and I didn’t completely grasp Mulrooney’s motives for doing all of this - was he just completely unhinged? One of CI’s weirdest episodes and that’s saying something. 

Was that the one with the actor who ended up playing Barba on SVU?

[Xeliou66]

15 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

Was that the one with the actor who ended up playing Barba on SVU?

Yep, the actor wound up playing Barba on SVU, making the episode even stranger in hindsight, seeing him as a murderous nutcase ADA here.

[WendyCR72]

3 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yeah Lady’s Man was somewhat hard to understand and I didn’t completely grasp Mulrooney’s motives for doing all of this - was he just completely unhinged? One of CI’s weirdest episodes and that’s saying something. 

I think motive was pretty straightforward, actually.

In losing the case against Boz Burnham and seeing both Boz gain fame with Faith Yancy and seeing Alex's career flourish despite her allegedly planting the letter from Jenny Burnham [which Mulrooney did!], while his own career went into the crapper, it obviously ate away at Mulrooney.

As it was discovered, he had not prosecuted cases in seven YEARS, likely stuck doing menial legal work.

So he found a way to get back at Boz by murdering him and then by trying to connect it to Eames.

[WendyCR72]

3 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

Was that the one with the actor who ended up playing Barba on SVU?

Yeah. As I had often joked in the SVU forum - as that show has embraced the soap opera - I'm surprised there has not been an episode where Barba discovers he has a psycho twin who was a former ADA, that was kidnapped and raised by an Irish family...

[peacheslatour]

I just caught a movie called Fires Within. It was an indie film from 1991. The thing that intrigued me was it starred Jimmy Smits and VDO, arguably two of the finest actors in the last fifty years. Their scenes together were dynamite.

[WendyCR72]

5 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

I just caught a movie called Fires Within. It was an indie film from 1991. The thing that intrigued me was it starred Jimmy Smits and VDO, arguably two of the finest actors in the last fifty years. Their scenes together were dynamite.

Will have to look for that. Thanks for the heads up!

[WendyCR72]

So I just got home from the hospital having spent a night there. (Kidney stone.) And my nurse was named Alexandra. Hee. Very nice. Funny how before the L&O franchise, I never heard the name much, and now it seems very common.

[Xeliou66]

I saw True Legacy last night, that’s the best season 9 episode IMO, a lot of it felt like classic CI with its focus on a powerful, dysfunctional family, good case. The main issue with season 9 was everyone was so low key, Stevens had no personality, Callas was basically a non-entity, and Nichols just couldn’t carry the show. It just felt like everyone was sleepwalking through the show.

[WendyCR72]

11 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I saw True Legacy last night, that’s the best season 9 episode IMO, a lot of it felt like classic CI with its focus on a powerful, dysfunctional family, good case. The main issue with season 9 was everyone was so low key, Stevens had no personality, Callas was basically a non-entity, and Nichols just couldn’t carry the show. It just felt like everyone was sleepwalking through the show.

Yeah, "True Legacy" was actually decent, considering all the other issues you list. Makes me wonder all the more how Goren/Eames would have approached that case. And funny how the grandson was named...Bobby.

On another note, "Palimpsest" is on as I type on WE, and I still contend it seems so...weird in speaking style and just odd with the woman in England and such. Lenore, Zack's "great love", really did seem like sort of a Harlequin Romance heroine type.

Still think it was sort of funky that the line "I'm on a mission from God!" was used both in this episode and alllllllll the way back in Season 2 in "The Pilgrim", the episode with the bomb vests and the military parade, etc. Ethan Edwards yelled that out to Goren/Eames in the interrogation room. Liked Eames' responding, "So are we."

The line made more sense there, I think, than in "Palimpsest". To me, anyway!

[WendyCR72]

"One" is on WE (as the series begins yet again!), and I saw something I had never noticed in the many times watching the pilot: As we see Deakins, Goren, and Eames enter Deakins' office for the first time, check out the view from the window!

Apparently, in the pilot, I am guessing that it was not established that the Major Case Squad was on the 11th floor. Because, in that scene, you can actually see cars going by, with no long view of the Brooklyn Bridge as became the case later!

I love little oddities/goofs like that when shows start out.

But it does make me wonder why it was felt it needed to be on the 11th floor at all (unless that is where the real MCS is located in One Police Plaza...).

[WendyCR72]

On another note, this video was recommended in my YT feed. From the description, it is the German version of the CI opening credits. What struck me is that Kathryn Erbe gets top billing, which I actually thought was pretty cool:

[Jaded]

I'm seeing this instead of the video. Are you in the US?

[peacheslatour]

8 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

On another note, this video was recommended in my YT feed. From the description, it is the German version of the CI opening credits. What struck me is that Kathryn Erbe gets top billing, which I actually thought was pretty cool:

Well, she was the lead/senior detective in the partnership, what with Goren being a headcase and all. /s

[WendyCR72]

12 hours ago, Jaded said:

I'm seeing this instead of the video. Are you in the US?

I am. Keep forgetting I have VPN through Mozilla Firefox! (That is how you can watch it!) Sorry!

ETA: Or just download the free Opera browser. It has built-in VPN! (Firefox charges a small monthly fee.)

[Jaded]

3 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

I am. Keep forgetting I have VPN through Mozilla Firefox! (That is how you can watch it!) Sorry!

ETA: Or just download the free Opera browser. It has built-in VPN! (Firefox charges a small monthly fee.)

I have a VPN too. Just wondered if you may have been in Canada and could see it or something. It is easy to forget when a VPN is left on. I had the one I use set to start automatically in a browser that isn't my regular one. I changed it to manual later on because having it on all the time caused some issues with what I was doing.

[WendyCR72]

So WE has just begun the episode, "Semi-Professional", and one thing never discussed is...wouldn't it be considered inappropriate for Judge Blakemore to beep Carver to come to his home?

I mean, the judge was presiding over a case of his at the start of the episode, so wouldn't it seem to imply some sort of favoritism/outside relationship?

Not to say I'm not glad Ron Carver/Courtney B. Vance had a bigger role here, because I am, but the setup just seemed sort of hinky, to me.

[Xeliou66]

11 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

So WE has just begun the episode, "Semi-Professional", and one thing never discussed is...wouldn't it be considered inappropriate for Judge Blakemore to beep Carver to come to his home?

I mean, the judge was presiding over a case of his at the start of the episode, so wouldn't it seem to imply some sort of favoritism/outside relationship?

Not to say I'm not glad Ron Carver/Courtney B. Vance had a bigger role here, because I am, but the setup just seemed sort of hinky, to me.

I watched that episode as well last night, and yeah I guess it could be considered unprofessional, but then again Blakemore was a total hack who had no business being on the bench, so unprofessional behavior was pretty much the norm for him.

I liked the heavy dose of Carver in that episode, he was such a good character, it was interesting seeing him show up to the crime scene before the detectives. I also found it interesting how they referenced Nora Lewin several times in the episode, and they also name dropped Jack McCoy once. I like the episode and the focus on the legal stuff, there wasn’t any sympathetic character in the episode really, and I hope Blakemore got exposed as a phony in the wake of the case.

[WendyCR72]

7 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I watched that episode as well last night, and yeah I guess it could be considered unprofessional, but then again Blakemore was a total hack who had no business being on the bench, so unprofessional behavior was pretty much the norm for him.

I liked the heavy dose of Carver in that episode, he was such a good character, it was interesting seeing him show up to the crime scene before the detectives. I also found it interesting how they referenced Nora Lewin several times in the episode, and they also name dropped Jack McCoy once. I like the episode and the focus on the legal stuff, there wasn’t any sympathetic character in the episode really, and I hope Blakemore got exposed as a phony in the wake of the case.

I'd love to think Blakemore lost out on the position, but politics being what it is, you never know. Still, I'd like to think one of the other nominees that Deakins' pal listed got the position instead.

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, WendyCR72 said:

I'd love to think Blakemore lost out on the position, but politics being what it is, you never know. Still, I'd like to think one of the other nominees that Deakins' pal listed got the position instead.

Yes I hope Blakemore didn’t get it, Blakemore was an incompetent hack. No one was sympathetic in that episode, Sabatelli was so obsessed with sticking it to Blakemore that he wound up being part of a murder conspiracy, and the actual killer was just a lowlife. I like the episode, it’s a good one for Carver as he got a much heavier dose of screen time, and I liked the continuity of how they referenced Nora Lewin and even named dropped McCoy. Good continuity, I always liked when the shows had good continuity with each other.

[Xeliou66]

Badge was just on, with evil bitch Terri Randolph, she was such a cold blooded piece of garbage. Goren is at his finest in this episode, I love how he mocks Randolph and gets under her skin, and how he figured out what happened with regards to the murders.

I liked when after the guy shot himself with the officer’s gun, Deakins didn’t chew the officer out, instead just calmly telling him to wait outside, Deakins was a good boss.

This episode is one of my favorites, but it pisses me off how Van Buren’s appearance was so poorly done, while it was nice that she crossed over, it didn’t make her look good, defending that evil bitch Randolph and seeming to still think highly of her despite knowing her penchant for brutality, Van Buren never tolerated brutality from her own detectives and so it was bizarre she would have respect for Randolph, and it just didn’t make Van Buren look good that she defended Randolph. 

[WendyCR72]

20 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Badge was just on, with evil bitch Terri Randolph, she was such a cold blooded piece of garbage. Goren is at his finest in this episode, I love how he mocks Randolph and gets under her skin, and how he figured out what happened with regards to the murders.

I liked when after the guy shot himself with the officer’s gun, Deakins didn’t chew the officer out, instead just calmly telling him to wait outside, Deakins was a good boss.

This episode is one of my favorites, but it pisses me off how Van Buren’s appearance was so poorly done, while it was nice that she crossed over, it didn’t make her look good, defending that evil bitch Randolph and seeming to still think highly of her despite knowing her penchant for brutality, Van Buren never tolerated brutality from her own detectives and so it was bizarre she would have respect for Randolph, and it just didn’t make Van Buren look good that she defended Randolph. 

And I love that Goren - even early on - was skeptical of the domestic argument gone bad angle, asking if there had ever been prior history of calls to the police and being eagle-eyed about the vacuum marks in the rug.

I still get squicked out when he puts on the murdered husband's bloody shirt, though. I mean, I got why, to check blood patterns. But still, eeewww!

Those girls were better off without that sociopath they called a mother.

[Xeliou66]

13 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

And I love that Goren - even early on - was skeptical of the domestic argument gone bad angle, asking if there had ever been prior history of calls to the police and being eagle-eyed about the vacuum marks in the rug.

I still get squicked out when he puts on the murdered husband's bloody shirt, though. I mean, I got why, to check blood patterns. But still, eeewww!

Those girls were better off without that sociopath they called a mother.

I loved Goren putting on the bloody shirt and demonstrating the forensics, it was vintage Goren!! And yeah Goren showed off his excellent skill as a detective on the case throughout.

And yes the girls were definitely better off without that sociopathic piece of human waste mother, I hope she got the death penalty, she deserved it as much as anyone in the history of CI. I still wonder how many people were involved in the murders and corruption, and I would’ve liked a line about them all being arrested, but there was already a lot in the episode.

It’s an awesome episode, it’s just too bad Van Buren’s only appearance on CI wasn’t done well, because I love Van Buren and she was just OOC here.

[Shadow Lass]

On 5/23/2022 at 2:35 AM, WendyCR72 said:

Yeah, "True Legacy" was actually decent, considering all the other issues you list. Makes me wonder all the more how Goren/Eames would have approached that case. And funny how the grandson was named...Bobby.

On another note, "Palimpsest" is on as I type on WE, and I still contend it seems so...weird in speaking style and just odd with the woman in England and such. Lenore, Zack's "great love", really did seem like sort of a Harlequin Romance heroine type.

I think my favorite Nichols/Stevens is "Broad Channel."

I consider "Palimpsest" CI's version of a gothic novel. :-)

[WendyCR72]

1 hour ago, Shadow Lass said:

I think my favorite Nichols/Stevens is "Broad Channel."

I consider "Palimpsest" CI's version of a gothic novel. :-)

Hi, @Shadow Lass! Good to see some new names here! I'd be interested to know what you liked about "Broad Channel"? S9 is not my favorite, but I find "True Legacy" (as mentioned) and "Traffic" were pretty decent.

[Xeliou66]

5 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Hi, @Shadow Lass! Good to see some new names here! I'd be interested to know what you liked about "Broad Channel"? S9 is not my favorite, but I find "True Legacy" (as mentioned) and "Traffic" were pretty decent.

I didn’t care for Broad Channel at all, couldn’t get into the story whatsoever.

True Legacy is definitely my favorite season 9 episode, Traffic was decent and Love on Ice was decent as well, I loved the backstory but the solution to the present day murder was disappointing in that one. Overall I don’t think season 9 was as bad as some make it out to be, most of the cases were okay, it was just the characters were so low energy it made it very dull at times. Certainly not CI at it’s best, but I don’t think it was horrible. 

[peacheslatour]

16 hours ago, Shadow Lass said:

I think my favorite Nichols/Stevens is "Broad Channel."

I consider "Palimpsest" CI's version of a gothic novel. :-)

I'm all alone here but I liked Palimpsest. It didn't fit the CI idiom but it was like an Agatha Christie story. Big house, a bunch of disparate characters, an old love and the gathering of suspects at the denouement where the great detective names the killer. And the butler did it!

[WendyCR72]

9 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

I'm all alone here but I liked Palimpsest. It didn't fit the CI idiom but it was like an Agatha Christie story. Big house, a bunch of disparate characters, an old love and the gathering of suspects at the denouement where the great detective names the killer. And the butler did it!

Should have broken out the board game, Clue, as a meta joke for the audience.

[Sigmagirl]

On 6/9/2022 at 11:07 PM, WendyCR72 said:

Those girls were better off without that sociopath they called a mother.

Especially as they had a grandmother who was kind and supportive. The girls probably would have to leave their private school and I really don’t know where they’d be getting money from, but at least it wouldn’t be blood money.

[WendyCR72]

9 hours ago, Sigmagirl said:

Especially as they had a grandmother who was kind and supportive. The girls probably would have to leave their private school and I really don’t know where they’d be getting money from, but at least it wouldn’t be blood money.

Yeah, but the grandmother also seemed very...I don't know...meek. I'm not sure she'd be up to the task of raising two young girls who would likely have issues down the line, especially knowing what Mommie Dearest did. But still, better grandma than Maleficent.

I'd just hope grandma would not wish those issues away and make sure those girls got some much-needed therapy.

[Xeliou66]

Yeah I hope Randolph’s daughters turned out okay as well, they would need serious therapy after it came out what their mom did, and I agree the grandma might not be able to handle them. But yeah the kids were certainly better off without that worthless murdering bitch of a mother. I love that episode, I really wish Van Buren’s cameo had been written better though. 

[WendyCR72]

6 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yeah I hope Randolph’s daughters turned out okay as well, they would need serious therapy after it came out what their mom did, and I agree the grandma might not be able to handle them. But yeah the kids were certainly better off without that worthless murdering bitch of a mother. I love that episode, I really wish Van Buren’s cameo had been written better though. 

"Badge" is one episode I wish had some sort of follow up, although I admit I can't think of a story to achieve that. But I always wondered how Terry Randolph's kids ended up, since Randolph claimed everything she did was for them.

That can certainly mess with their heads...

[Xeliou66]

13 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

"Badge" is one episode I wish had some sort of follow up, although I admit I can't think of a story to achieve that. But I always wondered how Terry Randolph's kids ended up, since Randolph claimed everything she did was for them.

That can certainly mess with their heads...

Yeah I would’ve liked to have known how many people were involved in Randolph’s dirty cop ring as well. She couldn’t have been alone in killing the family, but I wonder just how many dirty cops she was involved with. 

[WendyCR72]

"Gemini" has started on WE. This is one episode I never quite understood. (The one with the two brothers, one obsessed with changing eye and hair color.)  I know the one brother had mental issues, but I never got if he actually killed anyone or if his creepy brother, Spencer, framed him for them just as he framed his brother as a teenager...

The brother with issues alternately seemed smart in some scenes, yet almost childlike in others. Good acting, I guess. But confusing, as I said.

[peacheslatour]

13 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

"Gemini" has started on WE. This is one episode I never quite understood. (The one with the two brothers, one obsessed with changing eye and hair color.)  I know the one brother had mental issues, but I never got if he actually killed anyone or if his creepy brother, Spencer, framed him for them just as he framed his brother as a teenager...

The brother with issues alternately seemed smart in some scenes, yet almost childlike in others. Good acting, I guess. But confusing, as I said.

I thought it was confusing too.

[Xeliou66]

21 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

"Gemini" has started on WE. This is one episode I never quite understood. (The one with the two brothers, one obsessed with changing eye and hair color.)  I know the one brother had mental issues, but I never got if he actually killed anyone or if his creepy brother, Spencer, framed him for them just as he framed his brother as a teenager...

The brother with issues alternately seemed smart in some scenes, yet almost childlike in others. Good acting, I guess. But confusing, as I said.

Gemini was confusing, but the brother who was mentally disturbed did commit the first murders, and then his scumbag brother committed the final murder I believe for his own reasons and tried to frame his brother for it. It’s been a while since I’ve seen the episode, but both brothers were guilty of murder. 

[WendyCR72]

51 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Gemini was confusing, but the brother who was mentally disturbed did commit the first murders, and then his scumbag brother committed the final murder I believe for his own reasons and tried to frame his brother for it. It’s been a while since I’ve seen the episode, but both brothers were guilty of murder. 

That makes it even more sort of WTF? for me, because, as I said, the show seemed to portray the brother with schizophrenia as gentle, so his committing murder just seems out of left field.

Oh, well!

A good episode is on late night tonight, "But Not Forgotten", with Isabel and her dirty-cop hubby and her dead hitman hubby. (On a side note, it was good to see the actress, Alicia Coppola, show up again on the franchise in the reboot as a defense attorney.)

[peacheslatour]

I just finished watching Palimpsest (I know, I know) and I just wish we could have seen Goren with an old love, the ONE so to speak, that for whatever reason it was not to be. The emotions he could show with just his eyes would have been amazing.

[Gramto6]

I may be odd "man" out here, but I like Palimpsest.  Zack's love was so magical and gentle/tender. Whenever it comes on I watch it.

[WendyCR72]

6 hours ago, Gramto6 said:

I may be odd "man" out here, but I like Palimpsest.  Zack's love was so magical and gentle/tender. Whenever it comes on I watch it.

Well, you could say that was one good thing about the show having different eras/leads: An episode for everyone to enjoy!

[WendyCR72]

On another note, "Stray" has just begun on WE, the episode with the undercover cops being killed by the killer couple, the guy being dyslexic. Good episode, but part of the ending sort of screwed up if you really split hairs.

Goren mentions the phone number of the woman's ex, who would blow her story and the doomed killer boyfriend growls at her to read him the damn number. Now, being dyslexic, maybe he could figure out dialing it on his own, but the majority of the episode makes it seem as if his dyslexia was severe, i.e. he couldn't even read the price on the pizza box, hence his witch of a girlfriend giving him the money to give the delivery guy.

So why would the guy yell at her to read him the number if he cannot even recognize numbers to dial at all?

(To be fair, I'm not dyslexic and only know the condition makes it a challenge with letters and reading, so maybe I'm missing something in that scene, but it stuck out to me!)

[peacheslatour]

18 hours ago, Gramto6 said:

I may be odd "man" out here, but I like Palimpsest.  Zack's love was so magical and gentle/tender. Whenever it comes on I watch it.

Come over here and sit by me. It's one of my favs! 

[Xeliou66]

Sundance just started showing CI this morning, starting with the series premiere One. As I’ve said before, the series premiere was really strong, it did a good job of giving a feel for the show and each character and it was a good case. This show started off really strong, Goren was great from the start, showing off his uniqueness and skill for observation. Eames, Deakins and Carver were good as well from the start. Nora Lewis’s crossover cameo was a nice way to connect the show to the L&O franchise, as I’ve said before it’s too bad they didn’t do more crossover cameos. 

[peacheslatour]

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

Sundance just started showing CI this morning, starting with the series premiere One. As I’ve said before, the series premiere was really strong, it did a good job of giving a feel for the show and each character and it was a good case. This show started off really strong, Goren was great from the start, showing off his uniqueness and skill for observation. Eames, Deakins and Carver were good as well from the start. Nora Lewis’s crossover cameo was a nice way to connect the show to the L&O franchise, as I’ve said before it’s too bad they didn’t do more crossover cameos. 

All you say is true but CI has been on Sundance for a while now.

[Xeliou66]

26 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

All you say is true but CI has been on Sundance for a while now.

I just haven’t noticed it in a while and I just noticed they were starting with episode 1 today. I’m enjoying the season 1 episodes, this show really started off strong and had its formula down from the start, unlike SVU which took a little time to figure out its formula.

[peacheslatour]

2 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

I just haven’t noticed it in a while and I just noticed they were starting with episode 1 today. I’m enjoying the season 1 episodes, this show really started off strong and had its formula down from the start, unlike SVU which took a little time to figure out its formula.

I'm watching it right now! I love the way they set up Goren and Eames characters right out of the gate.

[Xeliou66]

38 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

I'm watching it right now! I love the way they set up Goren and Eames characters right out of the gate.

Agreed - it didn’t take them time to figure out the characters, they knew what they were and how to write them going in, and they were great right off the bat, Goren in particular. This show didn’t have to take time to figure out it’s formula, unlike SVU and even to a small extent the Mothership.