Law & Order: Criminal Intent - General Discussion

[Xeliou66]

18 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

I think Elise Garrett may be even worse than her scummy hubby, because she was telling Bethany's distraught mother how Ethan was not a killer, all the while knowing SHE killed Mrs. London's daughter.

And, as I said, she was pushing Ethan to spill about what happened that night when, again, she actually killed Bethany. Not to say Judge Garrett was at all sympathetic. He was gutter trash, too. I'd hope both got the proverbial book thrown at them.

But since they were well to do, I wonder if they would have gotten undeserved leniency.

I agree Elise Garrett may have been worse, she actually smothered Bethany to death. They were all lowlife garbage though, and I hope they got harsh sentences. One thing I would’ve liked to have known about on CI is what specifically the perps got charged with/sentenced to, the show often didn’t say that as it usually just ended with the perp being arrested. At least in this episode we got to see them go into court but I still would’ve liked to have known what the final sentences were for “Hot Tub Harry” and Elise Garrett.

[peacheslatour]

42 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

I agree Elise Garrett may have been worse, she actually smothered Bethany to death. They were all lowlife garbage though, and I hope they got harsh sentences. One thing I would’ve liked to have known about on CI is what specifically the perps got charged with/sentenced to, the show often didn’t say that as it usually just ended with the perp being arrested. At least in this episode we got to see them go into court but I still would’ve liked to have known what the final sentences were for “Hot Tub Harry” and Elise Garrett.

Yep, that's the thing that made CI less satisfying than Mothership. But I get it. There's procedure and there's courtroom drama. Too bad they never found that balance.

[Xeliou66]

52 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

Yep, that's the thing that made CI less satisfying than Mothership. But I get it. There's procedure and there's courtroom drama. Too bad they never found that balance.

Yes, it’s hard to match the Mothership, it was such an superbly executed show. CI was great as well, but the Mothership will always be my favorite for its balance of investigation/legal stuff, getting to see the case from beginning to end, and the lack of personal drama. But CI was great as well and one thing about CI is that the perps were almost always punished, very rarely did they escape justice, whereas on L&O and to a lesser extent SVU they occasionally did get off. 

[WendyCR72]

I liked CI because it was always so twisty-turny, which makes sense since Dick Wolf and Rene Balcer modeled Goren and Eames on Sherlock and Watson and going toe-to-toe with the criminals.

But, yeah, Carver never had much to do, really. Except be a good foil to Goren on occasion. Still wish he could have shown up in S10, maybe as a judge or defense lawyer that needed Goren and Eames' help, be it on a case or maybe Carver's family could have been in danger somehow...

[Xeliou66]

2 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

I liked CI because it was always so twisty-turny, which makes sense since Dick Wolf and Rene Balcer modeled Goren and Eames on Sherlock and Watson and going toe-to-toe with the criminals.

But, yeah, Carver never had much to do, really. Except be a good foil to Goren on occasion. Still wish he could have shown up in S10, maybe as a judge or defense lawyer that needed Goren and Eames' help, be it on a case or maybe Carver's family could have been in danger somehow...

Yeah Carver was a great character that was criminally underused. Deakins as well for that matter. CI lost a lot when they left. At least Deakins got an exit, albeit a mostly unsatisfactory one. I like to imagine Carver went on to become a judge, while Deakins got to enjoy retirement with his family somewhere. I do wish one or both of them had made a cameo in season 10, they could’ve come up with a reason for them to appear, it would’ve been really nice to see them again. 

[peacheslatour]

Quote

But CI was great as well and one thing about CI is that the perps were almost always punished, very rarely did they escape justice, whereas on L&O and to a lesser extent SVU they occasionally did get off.

With one notable exception. Paul Whitlock in Magnificat. MFer should have been drawn and quartered.

[Xeliou66]

4 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

With one notable exception. Paul Whitlock in Magnificat. MFer should have been drawn and quartered.

Yes as I’ve said before, that was one of the only times I was really disappointed in Carver, he should’ve had that asshole charged and let a jury decide whether he was culpable. It was pretty clear to me he was guilty of criminally negligent homicide or maybe even manslaughter. 

[WendyCR72]

7 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yes as I’ve said before, that was one of the only times I was really disappointed in Carver, he should’ve had that asshole charged and let a jury decide whether he was culpable. It was pretty clear to me he was guilty of criminally negligent homicide or maybe even manslaughter. 

I never understood Carver's reasoning where Paul Whitlock was concerned. He saw that heater, knew his wife had tampered with it and why, which means he knew she was unstable.

So the fact that she did go on to kill the majority of their kids and tried to kill herself and their surviving child should have made him complicit/culpable almost as much as Doreen, IMO.

[Xeliou66]

3 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

I never understood Carver's reasoning where Paul Whitlock was concerned. He saw that heater, knew his wife had tampered with it and why, which means he knew she was unstable.

So the fact that she did go on to kill the majority of their kids and tried to kill herself and their surviving child should have made him complicit/culpable almost as much as Doreen, IMO.

Exactly. I thought it was cowardly of Carver not to prosecute him - Whitlock knew his wife had tried to commit suicide and was a danger to her kids and herself, and yet he didn’t get her help or do anything. If he hadn’t been negligent, his children would’ve have died. And he didn’t seem to give a shit. I like Carver but this was the one time he really was on my bad side, I don’t think a prosecutor like Jack McCoy or Mike Cutter would’ve let Whitlock off.

And I hope he didn’t get custody of his oldest son, he was clearly an unfit parent. 

[peacheslatour]

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And I hope he didn’t get custody of his oldest son, he was clearly an unfit parent. 

 

It looked like Goren's friend, the child welfare advocate, was going to take care of that.

[WendyCR72]

12 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

It looked like Goren's friend, the child welfare advocate, was going to take care of that.

Hope so. But judges often like to keep kids with their parents. And Doreen's mother almost seemed...in awe...of Paul, saying how Doreen needed guidance or some such crap.

Hope the grandmother snapped out of that mindset for Adam's sake.

[Sigmagirl]

I’m not sure Paul even wanted custody of Adam. ISTM he wanted to start fresh with a new family he could tyrannize.

[WendyCR72]

13 hours ago, Sigmagirl said:

I’m not sure Paul even wanted custody of Adam. ISTM he wanted to start fresh with a new family he could tyrannize.

Maybe, but I recall the grandmother having Paul describe the boys as "high-quality children" (BARF!) and Paul seemed to ignore any "imperfections" that Adam had (i.e. his learning disability). But I'd hope his POS "father" didn't want him around.

It would be to Adam's benefit being away from that trash.

[peacheslatour]

I've been watching a CI marathon on Sundance today and I noticed something that hit me in the past; Bobby says "Just one more thing." In every episode so far. Remind us of anyone?

[Xeliou66]

5 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

I've been watching a CI marathon on Sundance today and I noticed something that hit me in the past; Bobby says "Just one more thing." In every episode so far. Remind us of anyone?

Interesting - I never remember Goren saying that phrase. I do know that was Colombo’s catchphrase, and I know Columbo was definitely an inspiration behind Goren’s character along with Sherlock Holmes. 

[WendyCR72]

10 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

I've been watching a CI marathon on Sundance today and I noticed something that hit me in the past; Bobby says "Just one more thing." In every episode so far. Remind us of anyone?

Yep, I noticed that. So Bobby is a blend of Sherlock and Columbo.  😋  A decidedly odd mix, but VDO and his interplay with his "Watson" in Eames made it work.

[WendyCR72]

Came across this on YouTube. Almost forgot that Olivia D'Abo was on the original version of The Wonder Years as the oldest child of the family. Behold Nicole Wallace (kinda) with an American accent!

 

[txhorns79]

On 9/18/2021 at 11:54 PM, WendyCR72 said:

I don't mind that Bobby never interacted with Benson/Stabler,

Jeez, I feel like the L&O world would collapse into itself if Bobby's mommy issues collided with Benson's mommy issues.  And that doesn't even get into Stabler's own mommy issues, and generally terrible family.

[WendyCR72]

23 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

Jeez, I feel like the L&O world would collapse into itself if Bobby's mommy issues collided with Benson's mommy issues.  And that doesn't even get into Stabler's own mommy issues, and generally terrible family.

Well, the fathers were no great shakes, either! Bobby's legal father was a cheater/gambling addict. His bio-dad was a serial killer. Olivia's was a rapist. At least Alex Eames' dad, when we met him, seemed like the hard-worn cop we'd always heard about regarding Johnny Eames.

[peacheslatour]

10 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Well, the fathers were no great shakes, either! Bobby's legal father was a cheater/gambling addict. His bio-dad was a serial killer. Olivia's was a rapist. At least Alex Eames' dad, when we met him, seemed like the hard-worn cop we'd always heard about regarding Johnny Eames.

"Irish Alzheimers"

[WendyCR72]

13 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

"Irish Alzheimers"

I liked him bringing up - like any dad - how he has no grandchildren from Alex [as her lone pregnancy was as a surrogate for her sister], and the look on her face...

[WendyCR72]

In looking at the schedule, considering we've talked at length about both seasons, but WE is on Season 7, while Sundance is on Season 4, two of the show's darkest seasons.

Sort of really hammered home if you watch them back to back!

WE late night is showing "Please Note..." with maniac Marla and her harpy MIL at 1:00 a.m. I still say Marla should have just went after the MIL and spared all the other victims.  😋  (Marla's hubby seemed like he could easily be pushed around by Mommie Dearest.)

[Sigmagirl]

True enough. It was Eleanor who wanted Henry in the school; Marla couldn’t have cared less, and Sonny did as he was told. If Marla had knocked off Eleanor, nobody else would have had to die. Of course Marla was unstable; she would have gone off on something eventually.

[Xeliou66]

I’ve been watching some of those season 7 episodes, and I have to say I think Logan got stronger episodes than Goren/Eames did in his 3 seasons on the show. Goren/Eames got so bagged down with soapy garbage during seasons 6-7 that I enjoyed Logan’s episodes more, and in season 5 while a very strong season (the last season of “classic” CI) I thought Logan got stronger episodes for the most part in that season as well.

In watching seasons 6-7, there was so much soapy baggage with Goren/Eames that it dragged down the show, whereas Logan got mostly solid episodes, for example I watched Reunion last night and that’s a good episode, even though the twists were somewhat predictable it was still a solid case. And I love the episode Senseless, best episode of season 7, and while I know some people were not satisfied with Logan’s exit, I was fine with it, I totally bought that he was sick of the system and of dealing with bureaucracy and wanted to do something else with his life, he always disliked the higher ups so I bought that he had just had enough of dealing with all of their crap. 

[WendyCR72]

4 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

In watching seasons 6-7, there was so much soapy baggage with Goren/Eames that it dragged down the show, whereas Logan got mostly solid episodes

I disagree but respect your take. Logan and Wheeler got the death of a gossip columnist tied to some movie death/perv producer (I'd say based on Weinstein, but his reputation, IIRC, was not public yet in 2007) and rock talk-show host. Although "Neighborhood Watch" and Logan's final episode, "Last Rites" were better, even if I wished the case Logan was investigating was a real case that he and Briscoe had worked on together, since the priest had a connection to Lennie.

Goren and Eames got a parental serial killer for the preschool set, a case of a cop-turned-author (lauded by Chuck Schumer, who appeared!) turned murderer, and - while soapy in framework - dealing with the death of Goren's own brother and his being framed (hence "Frame" - LOL!) by his own trusted mentor (Gage) and his greatest (if not tiring) nemesis, Nicole Wallace. To me, their cases had more "weight".

Not to mention going undercover and almost dying in Tates prison. Yes, the impetus to get him there, via a nephew he had no knowledge of, was soapy. But the case itself was psychological (which was the bread and butter of CI/Goren and Eames) and dark/heavy as hell. Which, for that show, translated to the A game, meat and potatoes. (Even if I can't watch much of that one, nor can @peacheslatour!)

Goren/Eames seemed to get the bigger guest stars, i.e. Rip Torn, Roy Scheider in S6, Chuck Schumer, Dean Winters, Tony Goldwyn, Rita Moreno, even Malcolm MacDowell in S5.

I felt the same in Season 6, in terms of the case disparity. Poor Logan got the Anna Nicole knockoff while Goren got the late, great Roy Scheider as a guest star, and one tied directly to his character, soap or not.

So, for me, I always saw G/E as getting the "A" stories while Logan got the "everyman/lightweight" cases (except "Senseless" and "To The Bone"; those had great meat for Chris Noth, not to mention seeing the great Ben Vereen, even if it only translated to a cameo on Vereen's part in the former and Whoopi Goldberg in the latter!). Sort of made sense since Logan once did the every day cases when he worked with Briscoe at the 2-7.

But I think the difference stood out, right or wrong.

[peacheslatour]

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So, for me, I always saw G/E as getting the "A" stories while Logan got the "everyman/lightweight" cases (except "Senseless" and "To The Bone"; those had great meat for Chris Noth, not to mention seeing the great Ben Vereen, even if it only translated to a cameo on Vereen's part in the former and Whoopi Goldberg in the latter!). Sort of made sense since Logan once did the every day cases when he worked with Briscoe at the 2-7.

I agree. Logan got more of the typical crime/cop show cases while G/E got the dig deep into the psyche of the criminal mind cases.

[Xeliou66]

I guess I just have to disagree here - Goren/Eames were so bogged down with soapy crap in seasons 6-7 that I just didn’t find a lot of their episodes enjoyable, whereas I liked the more “normal” Logan episodes.

As I’ve said before, season 6 is my least favorite season, mainly because it seemed like they just threw out the formula that worked for 5 seasons and threw in a ton of soapy dreck, as well as weird camera stuff and very different styles to the episodes. Season 7 was better but it continued the Goren soap and Goren just seemed lifeless and miserable. My favorite episode from season 6 is World’s Fair, and my favorite from season 7 is Senseless, both Logan episodes. Goren/Eames had more dramatic episodes, but a lot of it was soapy drama.

I do like Betrayed, it’s my favorite Goren/Eames episode of season 7, it was a compelling case that felt a lot like classic CI, although Ross was a grade A dickwad in that one, even moreso than normal. 

[Jaded]

I'm watching an episode of the mothership S1 Ep 7: By Hooker, by Crook from 1990.  Courtney B. Vance had a bit uncredited part playing a character described as "Mayor's Assistant ". He was in a second episode in 1995 where his character had an actual name.

[WendyCR72]

1 hour ago, Jaded said:

I'm watching an episode of the mothership S1 Ep 7: By Hooker, by Crook from 1990.  Courtney B. Vance had a bit uncredited part playing a character described as "Mayor's Assistant ". He was in a second episode in 1995 where his character had an actual name.

Wow, never realized Courtney B. Vance was in "By Hooker, By Crook"! Cool! I do vividly remember his second appearance in "Rage". Never was I so happy to see his character get his comeuppance there!

It really did/does seem like Dick Wolf would often assemble casts for new shows by using actors from other shows/episodes. (Okay, I think many bigwigs do that, but it seemed very prevalent for Wolf.)

Still wish Carver had made a cameo in S10 or something. Wonder if he - or any other former cast members of other Wolf shows - will pop up on the Original Recipe Law & Order revival? I am both excited and scared about this revival, as it is.

[peacheslatour]

7 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Wow, never realized Courtney B. Vance was in "By Hooker, By Crook"! Cool! I do vividly remember his second appearance in "Rage". Never was I so happy to see his character get his comeuppance there!

It really did/does seem like Dick Wolf would often assemble casts for new shows by using actors from other shows/episodes. (Okay, I think many bigwigs do that, but it seemed very prevalent for Wolf.)

Still wish Carver had made a cameo in S10 or something. Wonder if he - or any other former cast members of other Wolf shows - will pop up on the Original Recipe Law & Order revival? I am both excited and scared about this revival, as it is.

I'll just be happy to see Jeffrey Donovan again. On ION TV they used to have both Burn Notice and Leverage, ah, those were the days.

[WendyCR72]

11 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

I'll just be happy to see Jeffrey Donovan again. On ION TV they used to have both Burn Notice and Leverage, ah, those were the days.

I watched CI, of course, on ION, too, when it would air there, with the long marathons. Used to run all day on Saturday into Sunday mornings. Now, ION only runs about 4 or 5 shows.

Never watched Burn Notice, so Jeffrey Donovan will be new to me. Makes me wonder if any familiar faces from other branches of the franchise will pop up on the Mothership's reboot/revival (to bring it back on topic!). I doubt it very much, but it would be nice, assuming no one gets killed or turned into a creep or whatnot.

[Gramto6]

Jeffery Donovan used to be a favorite from Burn Notice...but after watching reruns of Crossing Jordan he was an asses patootie on that show and I'm not a fan any more... 

[peacheslatour]

10 hours ago, Gramto6 said:

Jeffery Donovan used to be a favorite from Burn Notice...but after watching reruns of Crossing Jordan he was an asses patootie on that show and I'm not a fan any more... 

He was the murderer on an episode of Monk too. He plays a very convincing villain. I hope his character on NuLaw & Order shows his good guy side.

[Xeliou66]

On 11/14/2021 at 4:30 AM, WendyCR72 said:

Wow, never realized Courtney B. Vance was in "By Hooker, By Crook"! Cool! I do vividly remember his second appearance in "Rage". Never was I so happy to see his character get his comeuppance there!

It really did/does seem like Dick Wolf would often assemble casts for new shows by using actors from other shows/episodes. (Okay, I think many bigwigs do that, but it seemed very prevalent for Wolf.)

Still wish Carver had made a cameo in S10 or something. Wonder if he - or any other former cast members of other Wolf shows - will pop up on the Original Recipe Law & Order revival? I am both excited and scared about this revival, as it is.

I wonder about the potential for CI characters to appear on the new L&O. SVU brought back Barek last year, so anything is possible!! I would love to see Carver turn up as a judge presiding over one of the cases. Or for Eames to appear again. I’m both excited and scared as well - I know if the writers stick to the L&O formula and just focus on interesting cases the show could be just as great, but given the utter shit that SVU is most of the time now makes me very worried that the L&O revival could be crapola as well.

[WendyCR72]

I would say that maybe Logan could pop up somehow...but considering Chris Noth is busy on The Equalizer, I kind of doubt that.

On another note, I see - as I type -  WE is now showing the Nichols/Stevens tenure, "Broad Channel". The guy playing Jackie Dooley, he was Frank/the Body By Jake killer in "Shibboleth" in S4, and I loved how chilling the actor was there.

In "Broad Channel", Dooley has a history with Nichols and...meh.

(I also recall he was on a Mothership episode where Lennie was in some hot water, but I suck at Mothership titles, what with so many seasons!)

[Xeliou66]

24 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

I would say that maybe Logan could pop up somehow...but considering Chris Noth is busy on The Equalizer, I kind of doubt that.

On another note, I see - as I type WE is now showing the Nichols/Stevens tenure, "Broad Channel". The guy playing Jackie Dooley, he was Frank/the Body By Jake killer in "Shibboleth" in S4, and I loved how chilling the actor was there.

In "Broad Channel", Dooley has a history with Nichols and...meh.

(I also recall he was on a Mothership episode where Lennie was in some hot water, but I suck at Mothership titles, what with so many seasons!)

You are talking about the episode Corruption, where the actor played Detective John Flynn, an old friend of Lennie’s who turned out to be corrupt and then tried to frame Lennie for stealing evidence. He was a real dirtbag. Great episode though.

I found Broad Channel to be very boring. A lot of season 9 was incredibly dull and forgettable, and it didn’t help that all of the characters lacked energy, and Stevens and Callas were dull as dirt and uninteresting characters.

[WendyCR72]

16 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I found Broad Channel to be very boring. A lot of season 9 was incredibly dull and forgettable, and it didn’t help that all of the characters lacked energy, and Stevens and Callas were dull as dirt and uninteresting characters.

I concur. As I did say before, Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio seemed to be a capable actress and the only one with a glimmer of a personality, but she was given squat to do. I can see why she didn't stay long. (And, as someone elsewhere said, I could see some resemblance with her and Kathryn Erbe. Still say MEM could have been an Eames family member instead!)

It wasn't just the low energy, but for all our talk of CI on an island, S9 really seemed isolated, using its own mobster families unconnected to the franchise and such. At least in the G/E seasons, some names called back to the Mothership, etc. Season 9 didn't even bother to do that much.)

[WendyCR72]

WE showed the S9 finale last night/early this morning.

While I have made it no secret I found that season dull, I will say F. Murray Abraham was good as Zack Nichols' shrink dad and he was good in helping with the case. Except it never made sense to me, when Zack was playing the piano in his dad's home, how they hugged when they saw each other.

Nichols made it clear to Wheeler in S8 that, despite living nearby, he hadn't seen his father in eons and clearly had some sort of grudge against him. We saw a peek of that during the case they worked on, but the actual reveal of Nichols' dad did not match the back story/build up to such.

Maybe waiting 'til the last episode of S9 didn't allow for accuracy, especially since, if I recall way back when, it was uncertain as to whether there would even be a S10, let alone the S9 cast departing for VDO/KE's returns.

Still, Abraham and Goldblum believably looked like father and son.

[peacheslatour]

Sundance is having The Wee Small Hours tomorrow at noon PT tomorrow.

[WendyCR72]

2 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

Sundance is having The Wee Small Hours tomorrow at noon PT tomorrow.

Ooh, one of my favorites. (As well as @Xeliou66, if I recall!)

[Xeliou66]

16 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

Sundance is having The Wee Small Hours tomorrow at noon PT tomorrow.

Thanks for letting me know.

13 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Ooh, one of my favorites. (As well as @Xeliou66, if I recall!)

Yes it is probably my favorite ever CI, so much to love about that 2 parter, I’ll watch it tomorrow. I always forget Sundance shows CI on Tuesdays, I see they are starting at 9 am with Prisoner and going in order from there, a string of good episodes - Prisoner, Unchained, Acts of Contrition, In The Wee Small Hours. I know some people have criticized Season 5, but I think it’s a great season.

Good day of L&O content tomorrow, besides the CI marathon on Sundance, WE is showing a Mothership marathon of season 3, a season that’s not shown often. Good day for fans of the franchise!!

[WendyCR72]

5 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yes it is probably my favorite ever CI, so much to love about that 2 parter, I’ll watch it tomorrow. I always forget Sundance shows CI on Tuesdays, I see they are starting at 9 am with Prisoner and going in order from there, a string of good episodes - Prisoner, Unchained, Acts of Contrition, In The Wee Small Hours. I know some people have criticized Season 5, but I think it’s a great season.

I always found Season 5 to be a solid season. Still good cases and acting, still full of psychological twists and turns, but less bleak than Season 4 (to me!). The only downside was losing Carver and Deakins at the end of it, which we have discussed.

I know the character didn't set the world on fire, but I always was kind of surprised Annabella Sciorra left the series after a single season. Barek did seem closer in age to Logan than either Wheeler or Falacci.

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, WendyCR72 said:

I always found Season 5 to be a solid season. Still good cases and acting, still full of psychological twists and turns, but less bleak than Season 4 (to me!). The only downside was losing Carver and Deakins at the end of it, which we have discussed.

I know the character didn't set the world on fire, but I always was kind of surprised Annabella Sciorra left the series after a single season. Barek did seem closer in age to Logan than either Wheeler or Falacci.

Yes season 5 was very good overall IMO, it was the last season of “classic” CI. It was definitely less bleak than season 4, of course no season was as bleak as season 4, that was one dark season. Deakins exit was disappointing and I hate the Carver didn’t even get an exit, but that was the only downside to season 5. I do think Logan/Barek got slightly better episodes than Goren/Eames in season 5, but there were a lot of good episodes that season. 

[peacheslatour]

Watching The Wee Small Hours now. Dear lord the Garrett family are monsters but dear old dad is the worst example of "humanity" I've ever seen.

[Xeliou66]

4 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

Watching The Wee Small Hours now. Dear lord the Garrett family are monsters but dear old dad is the worst example of "humanity" I've ever seen.

The entire Garrett family were human garbage - Judge Garrett was a disgusting predator and a sorry excuse for a human and Elise Garrett was a cold blooded killer. Ethan was a piece of crap as well but it’s not surprising he turned out like he did given that his dad was a creepy perv and his mom a killer.

Such a great episode, I watched it as well today, and it was awesome to see Goren/Eames and Logan/Barek work together, I particularly liked Goren/Logan teaming up several times in the episode and Eames’ line “there they go, ocean’s two” when they departed for the club where Sinatra used to hang at. And of course Arthur Branch’s cameo as well was great, I wish this show had done legal stuff more, they did it well in this episode. 

[WendyCR72]

6 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

Watching The Wee Small Hours now. Dear lord the Garrett family are monsters but dear old dad is the worst example of "humanity" I've ever seen.

And Colm Meany practically inhaled the scenery - rather than just chewing on it - with Harold Garrett's "IAGO!" line to Ethan.

[WendyCR72]

Two good S10 episodes airing in late night on WE: "Cadaver" and "Icarus".

And funny how Steven Weber, who was the unfortunate victim switched with an already dead guy, ended up in the Dick Wolf fold, as well, as I read he is now a cast member on Chicago Med. The Dick Wolf casting agency strikes again!

On another note in that same theme, while not a regular, Cynthia Nixon, who played non-detective Amanda Rollins, drunk Broadway producer, was obviously all over the franchise from its inception! (She was good in the Mothership's S1 episode, "Subterranean Homeboy Blues", where she would first work with Chris Noth, pre- Sex and The City. Speaking of which, even the actor who played her hubby on that show is in the Wolf franchise. David Eigenberg has been on Chicago Fire since its beginning! Funny how two such different shows have a lot of actor overlap.)

[Xeliou66]

I saw Cadaver tonight, that’s a good episode with a lot of good twists and suspects and a wild premise with Langston’s body switched with that of a cadaver. I did wonder what would happen to Maya at the end, she helped cover up the crime and I doubt the DA would make a deal with her, I think she was in big trouble, it’s another episode where I wish an ADA was involved so we could see how they worked that out as Goren and Eames couldn’t make promises on behalf of the DA’s office. But it is a stellar episode, and as I’ve said before season 10 felt like a true return to classic CI and Goren got his mojo back in season 10. I liked Joe Hannah as captain as well even though he wasn’t used much for the most part. 

[WendyCR72]

20 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I saw Cadaver tonight, that’s a good episode with a lot of good twists and suspects and a wild premise with Langston’s body switched with that of a cadaver. I did wonder what would happen to Maya at the end, she helped cover up the crime and I doubt the DA would make a deal with her, I think she was in big trouble, it’s another episode where I wish an ADA was involved so we could see how they worked that out as Goren and Eames couldn’t make promises on behalf of the DA’s office. But it is a stellar episode, and as I’ve said before season 10 felt like a true return to classic CI and Goren got his mojo back in season 10. I liked Joe Hannah as captain as well even though he wasn’t used much for the most part. 

And, of course, Jenna Stern, franchise utility player (a murdered ADA on the Mothership and wasn't she also on SVU?) from S1 of this show as the lying mom in "Crazy", along with her memorable turn as Adair's bitchy manager [whom Adair was screwing!] in S4, and Brady's lawyer in S6. Yep, Ms. Stern made the rounds. Her Lauren Langston was practically sedate next to her other appearances (minus Brady's lawyer as it was more of a cameo!). The girl playing her and Ben's daughter was a good little actress and I liked her talking with Eames.

Somehow, I can't picture Lauren Langston and Theo Kendall together, but whatever. Worked for the plot.

And while Charlie Barnett, the actor playing Ben Langston's illegitimate son, was a good actor (whom Dick Wolf must have liked, because the actor was part of the cast of Chicago Fire in its early seasons!), he looked nothing at all like Steven Weber. (I always just assumed the character favored his late mother in looks.)

And, yeah, it was a good episode! At least the concept of the murder with the cadaver was not done on a thousand other shows. It felt like a fresh idea. Chris Brancato was a good EP, breathing new life into the show. It's too bad that s10 was the end.

And I see WE is skipping "To The Boy With The Blue Knit Cap" again and will begin again with "One" and "Art" in late night tomorrow morning, 1:00 a.m. ET. (And I still cannot get over just how different - down to the voice - Elizabeth Marvel was in "Art" as Sylvia versus her later appearance as Jenny/Wendy in S5's "Prisoner". Which is why, for the longest time, I had no idea it even was the same actress!)

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, WendyCR72 said:

And, of course, Jenna Stern, franchise utility player (a murdered ADA on the Mothership and wasn't she also on SVU?) from S1 of this show as the lying mom in "Crazy", along with her memorable turn as Adair's bitchy manager [whom Adair was screwing!] in S4, and Brady's lawyer in S6. Yep, Ms. Stern made the rounds. Her Lauren Langston was practically sedate next to her other appearances (minus Brady's lawyer as it was more of a cameo!). The girl playing her and Ben's daughter was a good little actress and I liked her talking with Eames.

Somehow, I can't picture Lauren Langston and Theo Kendall together, but whatever. Worked for the plot.

And while Charlie Barnett, the actor playing Ben Langston's illegitimate son, was a good actor (whom Dick Wolf must have liked, because the actor was part of the cast of Chicago Fire in its early seasons!), he looked nothing at all like Steven Weber. (I always just assumed the character favored his late mother in looks.)

And, yeah, it was a good episode! At least the concept of the murder with the cadaver was not done on a thousand other shows. It felt like a fresh idea. Chris Brancato was a good EP, breathing new life into the show. It's too bad that s10 was the end.

And I see WE is skipping "To The Boy With The Blue Knit Cap" again and will begin again with "One" and "Art" in late night tomorrow morning, 1:00 a.m. ET. (And I still cannot get over just how different - down to the voice - Elizabeth Marvel was in "Art" as Sylvia versus her later appearance as Jenny/Wendy in S5's "Prisoner". Which is why, for the longest time, I had no idea it even was the same actress!)

Yeah that actress plays Judge turned defense attorney Elana Barth on SVU and was also a judge in a couple of later Mothership episodes I believe. She certainly played a lot of roles.

I agree that the revelation that Lauren Langston and Theo were having an affair was kind of weird, Theo was such an immature douche that I had a hard time believing anyone would want much to do with him. But yeah I did like Eames’ talk with the daughter.

It was a good episode and yeah the body being swapped with a cadaver was an interesting premise and it was a good mystery, I hated the killer mom, she seemed like a cold witch, but like I say I wonder what happened to Maya after covering for killer mom, I have a feeling she wouldn’t have much of a future as a doctor, like I say I really wish they had an ADA to consult with in many of those later episodes.

I liked all 8 episodes of season 10 and I’m glad the show went out on a high note, they finally found the classic CI formula, Goren was rejuvenated and Joe Hannah was a good squad leader, I wish we had seen more of him and known more about his relationship with Goren. 

Edited November 30, 2021 by Xeliou66