Law & Order: Criminal Intent - General Discussion

[Xeliou66]

13 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

I think the easier question is, what families WEREN'T the very dregs of humanity?!

I mean, I get it. The very premise of this show was the focus on the worst of the worst, but there were so many degenerates, it's hard to recall if any were just victims of circumstance or whatever and not just generally awful, you know?

Anyway, another awful pick: The dad in "Bright Boy", who tried to live his academic life through his kid and was willing to kill a social worker just because she may prevent said kid from entering a prestigious academy that he truly had no business being in.

Robbie lied because he wanted to be a kid and play baseball, but that's just it: It was a kid response. Robbie didn't know his father was a psycho and was not about to let his (the dad's) fantasy of academic excellence go without a fight, and killed an innocent social worker to make sure of that.

As I have said before, Robbie was not a small child, so I wonder how he coped with the fallout. The social worker dying was NOT his fault or HIS intention. But I can't imagine the guilt the poor kid carried. The dad may have taken a plea and avoided a trial, but I think it is extremely naive to think Robbie would NEVER find out just why Kim died.

Yeah I’ve always wondered what happened to Robbie after that episode, because he would definitely figure out why his dad committed the murder and that would have to weigh on him, I hope he turned out okay. His dad was a loon.

Others that standout are the god awful dad/grandpa from Bedfellows, who only loved one son/grandson, and the perp and his sister from Maledictus, what a bizarre relationship they had, I couldn’t figure out whether there was incest there or not.

[WendyCR72]

2 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Others that standout are the god awful dad/grandpa from Bedfellows, who only loved one son/grandson, and the perp and his sister from Maledictus, what a bizarre relationship they had, I couldn’t figure out whether there was incest there or not.

"Bedfellows" was on just a few nights ago, and all I kept thinking was how utterly awful the senior Mr. Copeland was. I especially hate the scene at the merry-go-round with his grandsons after he is once again questioned by G/E, lecturing Ted's kid that, because he didn't have money, he got no popcorn while the other kid would. What a dick.

As for Kenny and Martha in "Maledictus", they were beyond creepy. But I think - as we don't know - it was just severe co-dependency rather than true incest. I hope that's the case, anyway!

And here is another obvious awful/looney/dysfunctional family: Declan Gage and his homicidal daughter, Jo. 'Nuff said!

[Xeliou66]

1 minute ago, WendyCR72 said:

"Bedfellows" was on just a few nights ago, and all I kept thinking was how utterly awful the senior Mr. Copeland was. I especially hate the scene at the merry-go-round with his grandsons after he is once again questioned by G/E, lecturing Ted's kid that, because he didn't have money, he got no popcorn while the other kid would. What a dick.

As for Kenny and Martha in "Maledictus", they were beyond creepy. But I think - as we don't know - it was just severe co-dependency rather than true incest. I hope that's the case, anyway!

And here is another obvious awful/looney/dysfunctional family: Declan Gage and his homicidal daughter, Jo. 'Nuff said!

Yes Copeland Sr was a horrible person, I wanted to punch him after how he treated one grandkid so poorly. He reminded me of the awful mother in Beast who only loved her beautiful, deceased daughter while treating her other daughter poorly.

And yeah good call about Declan and Jo Gage. 

[WendyCR72]

2 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yes Copeland Sr was a horrible person, I wanted to punch him after how he treated one grandkid so poorly. He reminded me of the awful mother in Beast who only loved her beautiful, deceased daughter while treating her other daughter poorly.

Colleen in "Beast" should have just left Mommie Dearest and "beautiful sis" the minute she reached 18. Instead, because of her mother's constant put-downs, she threw her life away. I know, she's a killer. But I do feel a degree of compassion for her, unlike freaks like John Tagman.

[Xeliou66]

3 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Colleen in "Beast" should have just left Mommie Dearest and "beautiful sis" the minute she reached 18. Instead, because of her mother's constant put-downs, she threw her life away. I know, she's a killer. But I do feel a degree of compassion for her, unlike freaks like John Tagman.

Agreed, her mother really screwed her up with her favoritism of her sister, it caused her to become obsessed with Gregory, who was a murderous piece of shit himself, and she wound up killing Gregory’s wife because of her lifelong obsession/jealousy. That was one twisted episode! 
It kind of reminds me of the parents in Saving Face, who just used their daughter as a replacement for their dead son and forced her to do everything they thought their son would’ve done if he hadn’t died, I thought she was one of CI’s more sympathetic perps, her whole life she was never allowed to become her own person, at least she got to explode at her parents and throw a bottle of wine on the portrait of her brother! Those were awful parents. 

[WendyCR72]

5 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Agreed, her mother really screwed her up with her favoritism of her sister, it caused her to become obsessed with Gregory, who was a murderous piece of shit himself, and she wound up killing Gregory’s wife because of her lifelong obsession/jealousy. That was one twisted episode! 
It kind of reminds me of the parents in Saving Face, who just used their daughter as a replacement for their dead son and forced her to do everything they thought their son would’ve done if he hadn’t died, I thought she was one of CI’s more sympathetic perps, her whole life she was never allowed to become her own person, at least she got to explode at her parents and throw a bottle of wine on the portrait of her brother! Those were awful parents. 

It's no wonder Christine was faking her "emotional attachment" to her brother. To know she was just a "spare" and knowing she was conceived after her brother had died...well, it's like Christine told her folks: "I know my place in this family."

But the WAY the young girl died, I do have less sympathy for Christine. I mean, having one's heart literally taken. That's just a whole other level of awful...

[Xeliou66]

1 minute ago, WendyCR72 said:

It's no wonder Christine was faking her "emotional attachment" to her brother. To know she was just a "spare" and knowing she was conceived after her brother had died...well, it's like Christine told her folks: "I know my place in this family."

But the WAY the young girl died, I do have less sympathy for Christine. I mean, having one's heart literally taken. That's just a whole other level of awful...

I agree that the murder was quite gruesome in that episode. But Christine’s psyche was severely damaged because her parents had never let her be her own person, so I did feel some sympathy for her. 

[Shadow Lass]

On 7/8/2022 at 2:18 PM, Xeliou66 said:

My favorite episode, In The Wee Small Hours, is on now!! So much to love about this 2 parter,

"There they go, Ocean's 2." ROFL.

On 7/13/2022 at 8:56 PM, WendyCR72 said:

Makes one wonder just where that Porsche ended up since it was bought by plundering the estates of deceased victims!

Pssst. It was a Ferrari. :-)

[Xeliou66]

14 minutes ago, Shadow Lass said:

"There they go, Ocean's 2." ROFL.

Pssst. It was a Ferrari. :-)

I love Eames’ “Ocean’s 2” one liner, and Goren/Logan interrogating Ethan. I think that is the best episode of CI. 

[WendyCR72]

2 hours ago, Shadow Lass said:

"There they go, Ocean's 2." ROFL.

Perfect delivery by Kathryn Erbe as she munched on Skittles. Like how Barek sort of looked at her like she was a bit weird. I'd like to think that was a bit of Goren's influence rubbing off on her. LOL!

2 hours ago, Shadow Lass said:

Pssst. It was a Ferrari. :-)

Oops! Guess you can tell I'm not a car person. My bad!

[peacheslatour]

While I'm not Mike Logan's biggest fan, the way he handled Felix in Senseless, that little fucking punkass POS, was masterful.

[WendyCR72]

7 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

While I'm not Mike Logan's biggest fan, the way he handled Felix in Senseless, that little fucking punkass POS, was masterful.

That whole episode was just so sad and depressing. I felt so sorry for the couple that lost both of their children.

[Xeliou66]

30 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

That whole episode was just so sad and depressing. I felt so sorry for the couple that lost both of their children.

Yes it was a depressing episode, but it’s probably my favorite of season 7, it was really well done. None of the soapy crap that CI got bogged down in around that time, just a good murder investigation.

I know it’s a very unpopular opinion, but I enjoy the Logan episodes of that time more than the Goren/Eames episodes of that time for the most part. I just really, really hated what they did to Goren in seasons 6-7, and liked the Logan episodes because they weren’t as soapy for the most part. Season 7 was better than season 6, but I just disliked the constant Goren angst or how they portrayed him as someone considered a loose cannon hated by the higher ups, that was absurd, given how many big cases Goren had closed and his extreme intelligence it would seem like the higher ups would be happy to have someone like Goren. Then again, bureaucrats frequently don’t make sense. But either way it annoyed me. 

[WendyCR72]

Logan's exit in S7, I just wish he had decided to retire on his own. The whole thing with being angry at the Queens (?) DA, it's like he was leaving under a shadow once again. If the case was an ACTUAL old case he had worked with Lennie, instead of something made up, perhaps I'd feel differently, but as it was, Logan's last exit wasn't much better than his initial one.

At least Goren and Eames got a do-over in S10 after the wretched initial ending in S9.

[Xeliou66]

7 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Logan's exit in S7, I just wish he had decided to retire on his own. The whole thing with being angry at the Queens (?) DA, it's like he was leaving under a shadow once again. If the case was an ACTUAL old case he had worked with Lennie, instead of something made up, perhaps I'd feel differently, but as it was, Logan's last exit wasn't much better than his initial one.

At least Goren and Eames got a do-over in S10 after the wretched initial ending in S9.

Yeah I agree about Logan’s exit, while I bought that he would get fed up with bureaucrats and politicians and the system and decide to do something else with his life, it wasn’t a great exit for him. Better than Deakins exit though. And yeah it’s great that Goren/Eames got a satisfying exit in season 10 after that awful season 9 exit.

[WendyCR72]

Ah, "Vanishing Act" is on again. Love it if just for VDO's/Bobby's obvious sincere joy, which was in short supply by then. (Makes sense since I read VDO has said that if he wasn't an actor, he would have been a magician!)

But I do think there was an early goof.

Det. Agnes Farley (the other blonde female detective at the scene) tells Eames (as Goren plays with the modified mummy cabinet he later explains!) that all six audience members "only seen what they were supposed to".

But before the credits, you can clearly see them gasp in horror, which then signals Carmine to turn and jump in shock as he sees Miles Stone's body!

[GiandujaPie]

On 7/29/2022 at 6:52 PM, WendyCR72 said:

That whole episode was just so sad and depressing. I felt so sorry for the couple that lost both of their children.

I can't watch that episode. It's just too sad and like the title, just so senseless. 

[WendyCR72]

6 hours ago, GiandujaPie said:

I can't watch that episode. It's just too sad and like the title, just so senseless. 

But sadly, realistic. Maybe that's why it is just so hard to watch. I only wish Ben Vereen had more airtime.

[Shadow Lass]

On 7/31/2022 at 2:15 AM, WendyCR72 said:

Ah, "Vanishing Act" is on again. Love it if just for VDO's/Bobby's obvious sincere joy, which was in short supply by then. (Makes sense since I read VDO has said that if he wasn't an actor, he would have been a magician!)

Yes, apparently he was doing magic tricks as a teen. Funny that he's played Orson Welles in ED WOOD and did the short film "Five Minutes, Mr. Welles"--Orson Welles was also big into magic.

Edited August 7, 2022 by Shadow Lass

[WendyCR72]

On 8/7/2022 at 6:19 PM, Shadow Lass said:

Yes, apparently he was doing magic tricks as a teen. Funny that he's played Orson Welles in ED WOOD and did the short film "Five Minutes, Mr. Welles"--Orson Welles was also big into magic.

I saw that! It was well acted and somewhat offbeat. (The "Five Minutes" film,  not "Ed Wood", to clarify. )

On another note, S8 has been airing again, and I wonder if TPTB were testing a Nichols/Eames partnership with the couple of episodes they had or if it was just happenstance since Julianne Nicholson had already left by then? 

Just curious. Maybe it was floated but KE also wanted out.

Or just saving money by not paying another actor as a temp partner. 

And, naturally, the 2008 Writers' Strike hit...

[peacheslatour]

On 8/7/2022 at 3:19 PM, Shadow Lass said:

Yes, apparently he was doing magic tricks as a teen. Funny that he's played Orson Welles in ED WOOD and did the short film "Five Minutes, Mr. Welles"--Orson Welles was also big into magic.

He was perfect as Orson Welles in Ed Wood. But that was not his voice, it was Maurice LaMarche AKA The Brain in Pinky and the Brain.

[WendyCR72]

"Three In One", the S9 finale, and "Rispetto", the S10 premiere, aired earlier tonight, and the way the former ended with Nichols and his dad was ultra low key. I recall there being a lot of uncertainty about the show's future at the time, but you would think Saffron Burrows, as Zack's partner, would have merited a final scene, just in case. Ditto Callas.

On the other hand, the S10 opener made it feel like G/E never left - even though I wish, as I said before,  their reinstatement was explained. 

On a story-related note,  Teddy Scola not recognizing his former BFF's daughter because he hadn't seen her in nine years seemed a bit thin since it seemed like he was so close to Nyle/Norman, but maybe Nyle was a deadbeat dad since he had his second family and his fame, etc. And maybe it's also why the Paris angle was written in with distance. 

I am more surprised that both Debra Brite and her son NEVER had a clue about Chloe/Sarah. All those years together and not one mention?

Even if Sarah's mother was a model, Nyle Brite was supposedly famous. You'd think she would insist on some financial contribution from him if just for her kid's sake. Since Nyle wasn't listed on the birth certificate, though, I assume the mother's career was successful and she was fine with raising her daughter alone. 

Which then begs the question of how Nyle even spent time with Chloe since his wife had no idea about her? Even calling her his one and only girl and gifting her his clarinet? The history there doesn't seem to make sense unless I'm missing something. 

[TakomaSnark]

I'm not the biggest fan of much of latter-era CI but 'The Last Street In Manhattan' - which aired today on WE - is a four-star ep for me that could easily have come from the first five/six seasons. Great work by D'onofrio and Erbe in relating to Vanessa Colway and Raymond J. Barry did so much in his brief scene as Eames' dad (I also think he's outstanding in the mothership episode 'Ghosts,' particularly playing against Dennis Farina).

Edited August 18, 2022 by TakomaSnark
'Aired' not 'haired' :)

[Xeliou66]

I like all 8 episodes of season 10, it finally felt like CI had gotten back to its classic formula from seasons 1-5. Goren got his mojo back, the cases were good, and Joe Hannah was a good captain. It was great that CI went out on a high note.

The Last Street In Manhattan is perhaps my favorite episodes from season 10, very strong case. Nice to see Eames’ dad in a brief scene. 

[WendyCR72]

9 hours ago, TakomaSnark said:

I'm not the biggest fan of much of latter-era CI but 'The Last Street In Manhattan' - which aired today on WE - is a four-star ep for me that could easily have come from the first five/six seasons. Great work by D'onofrio and Erbe in relating to Vanessa Colway and Raymond J. Barry did so much in his brief scene as Eames' dad (I also think he's outstanding in the mothership episode 'Ghosts,' particularly playing against Dennis Farina).

I have made it no secret that "The Last Street In Manhattan" is my favorite S10 episode. Loved finally seeing Johnny Eames after years of hearing about him, and loved his griping to Alex about having no grandchildren from her. (A very dad thing.)

Also loved G/E's interactions with Vanessa, too. As well as Alex snarking at Stephanie Miller of The Swan Club as Bobby, clearly amused, tried to sort of referee.

Just a great episode all the way around.

I saw a comment from Alexandra Silber, who played Vanessa, on...I think it was the review of the episode on the All Things Law & Order blog (at least the post claimed to be her!) years ago, saying that she had a wonderful experience filming the episode, too.

[Shadow Lass]

On 8/19/2022 at 12:29 AM, WendyCR72 said:

I have made it no secret that "The Last Street In Manhattan" is my favorite S10 episode. Loved finally seeing Johnny Eames after years of hearing about him, and loved his griping to Alex about having no grandchildren from her. (A very dad thing.)

I think that's my favorite season 10, too. Eames walking around her old school!

On 8/10/2022 at 2:07 PM, peacheslatour said:

He was perfect as Orson Welles in Ed Wood. But that was not his voice, it was Maurice LaMarche AKA The Brain in Pinky and the Brain.

Yeah, he got robbed. I thought he was brilliant as Welles in "Five Minutes."

[Shadow Lass]

Watching some fourth season. Love the coffee wake up scene in "Silver Lining."

[WendyCR72]

9 hours ago, Shadow Lass said:

Watching some fourth season. Love the coffee wake up scene in "Silver Lining."

Me, too! It was just kind of nice and solicitous a way for Goren to wake Eames. Actually for Goren, dare I say it, sort of...low-key sweet. (Instead of just shaking her or yelling to wake up, etc.)

[wknt3]

On 8/18/2022 at 10:22 PM, Xeliou66 said:

I like all 8 episodes of season 10, it finally felt like CI had gotten back to its classic formula from seasons 1-5. Goren got his mojo back, the cases were good, and Joe Hannah was a good captain. It was great that CI went out on a high note.

Yes S10 was great. Because after years of network interference trying to turn the show into something else the mandate was to go back to the classic formula and give the fans what they wanted. It was nice that the show pretty much got to go out on it's own terms on a high note unlike the other 2 members of the Big 3 L&Overse series (and yes I know that we don't know how SVU will end, but can anyone here honestly see a scenario where everyone involved would choose doing the right thing for the show's legacy over their own short term financial best interest?

[Xeliou66]

29 minutes ago, wknt3 said:

Yes S10 was great. Because after years of network interference trying to turn the show into something else the mandate was to go back to the classic formula and give the fans what they wanted. It was nice that the show pretty much got to go out on it's own terms on a high note unlike the other 2 members of the Big 3 L&Overse series (and yes I know that we don't know how SVU will end, but can anyone here honestly see a scenario where everyone involved would choose doing the right thing for the show's legacy over their own short term financial best interest?

For that matter we don’t know how the Mothership will end either, now that it’s been revived, Rubber Room was a great finale for the first 20 seasons of it but I’m glad to have it back and see new episodes. SVU has descended into utter shit most of the time, it can’t be salvaged IMO, and I agree I don’t foresee a great ending for it. And yeah it was great that CI got to go out on its own terms and give us 8 strong episodes of what the show should be like and was like for its first 5 seasons before the network executives/writers messed it up. I’m really glad that Goren/Eames got a satisfying ending, especially after their original awful ending in season 9. 

[WendyCR72]

7 hours ago, wknt3 said:

(and yes I know that we don't know how SVU will end, but can anyone here honestly see a scenario where everyone involved would choose doing the right thing for the show's legacy over their own short term financial best interest?

That would be NO, capital letters and all! 😎

With NBC potentially ceding the 10:00 p.m. hour next fall, it does make me wonder if SVU will finally fold, move an hour earlier, or be shuffled off to Peacock.

To bring it back to CI, I'm now glad it ended when it did and has not been revived. Its ending was solid. (Of course, SVU messed with it, but I just ignore it, as I said!)

Because, while I'm reasonably glad the Mothership returned, something with the reboot just seems to be missing to me. I hope the upcoming season will be less rough and more like the classic 20 seasons! But CI got it together again, and I'm glad it went out as it did.

As for SVU, while it sounds bitchy, the phrase "lost cause" springs to mind at this point. OC is...more like Chicago PD-ish to me...and I'm not exactly a fan of the latter. Nice to have Stabler back, but the show's tone isn't exactly my thing.

[WendyCR72]

Obviously, my last post had a late-night brain fart since SVU airs at 9:00 p.m., not 10.

Oops. 

But my question about its future holds since NBC would have limited show space if it loses an hour and the show is so old and  - even with cuts - likely expensive. 

On topic: "Rocket Man" is on Sundance now, and I realize I like  Bobby in snark mode when he is interrogating the NSA commander that was screwing his astronaut partner and says he was trying to protect his wife"s feelings: "Commander, that's very thoughtful of you!" Seems Eames' sarcasm rubbed off.

And I like how pissy he gets when interrogating Sandy, too. The search of her car and finding bunches of evidence as Eames quips, "Houston, we have a problem!" is great snarky use of an historic quote. 

[WendyCR72]

"Con-Text" from S2 aired last night. Doug was just creepy. Gracenote cultist that he was.

But I did like Bobby telling him that he failed the course there, and he was still the same scared loser he always was!

His lawyer in the prison scene looked familiar. Did he ever appear on the Mothership?

[Shadow Lass]

On 8/29/2022 at 2:30 AM, WendyCR72 said:

As for SVU, while it sounds bitchy, the phrase "lost cause" springs to mind at this point. OC is...more like Chicago PD-ish to me...and I'm not exactly a fan of the latter. Nice to have Stabler back, but the show's tone isn't exactly my thing.

I have watched OC about four times and to me it's a snooze.

Now I understand that next year Elliot's supposed to not be working undercover anymore--sheesh, he's done so much undercover in two years you'd think everyone would KNOW by now--so maybe that will improve it.

Am looking forward to the combined show on September 22, though, just to see how they'll handle it.

[WendyCR72]

16 hours ago, Shadow Lass said:

Am looking forward to the combined show on September 22, though, just to see how they'll handle it.

With the different tones for each show, I hope it isn't too jarring. But it just makes me wish CI had gotten a shot to work alongside the Mothership for an episode or two.

Oh, well.

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, WendyCR72 said:

With the different tones for each show, I hope it isn't too jarring. But it just makes me wish CI had gotten a shot to work alongside the Mothership for an episode or two.

Oh, well.

I’m hopeful about the crossover because they are advertising it as an L&O movie with characters from each show in all 3 hours dealing with the case from start to finish, there won’t be a transition to a new show at each hour and they won’t have credits at 9 and 10, so it won’t be like 3 different episodes tied together, it will be one movie pretty much, I think that’s the only way to go given how different the styles of the 3 shows are. I think it will be kind of cool to see the characters from each show working together, and yeah it does make me wish they had done something like this when CI was on the air, that would’ve been interesting. 

[peacheslatour]

34 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

I’m hopeful about the crossover because they are advertising it as an L&O movie with characters from each show in all 3 hours dealing with the case from start to finish, there won’t be a transition to a new show at each hour and they won’t have credits at 9 and 10, so it won’t be like 3 different episodes tied together, it will be one movie pretty much, I think that’s the only way to go given how different the styles of the 3 shows are. I think it will be kind of cool to see the characters from each show working together, and yeah it does make me wish they had done something like this when CI was on the air, that would’ve been interesting. 

Really! I would love to have seen how Goren would relate to Elliot Stabler.

[Xeliou66]

7 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

Really! I would love to have seen how Goren would relate to Elliot Stabler.

I would’ve loved to see Goren with Munch or Fin, that would’ve been great. And I would’ve liked to have seen McCoy have scenes with CI characters, particularly Carver. A 3 way crossover between the Mothership, CI and SVU could’ve been really good. I’m very curious as to how well the franchise will pull off the L&O movie, it could be very good, it could be bad, hopefully they just give us a strong case with good work from each character and don’t get into the soapy crapola that SVU and OC get bogged down by. 

[WendyCR72]

On 9/5/2022 at 6:37 PM, Xeliou66 said:

I would’ve loved to see Goren with Munch or Fin, that would’ve been great. And I would’ve liked to have seen McCoy have scenes with CI characters, particularly Carver. A 3 way crossover between the Mothership, CI and SVU could’ve been really good. I’m very curious as to how well the franchise will pull off the L&O movie, it could be very good, it could be bad, hopefully they just give us a strong case with good work from each character and don’t get into the soapy crapola that SVU and OC get bogged down by. 

Yeah, we mentioned it before, but Goren and Munch could have out-quirked each other. And with both Goren and Finn having military backgrounds not to mention starting out in Narcotics, I would have loved to see the interplay there.

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, WendyCR72 said:

Yeah, we mentioned it before, but Goren and Munch could have out-quirked each other. And with both Goren and Finn having military backgrounds not to mention starting out in Narcotics, I would have loved to see the interplay there.

Yep, Goren with Munch/Fin would’ve been awesome! And it would’ve been great to see McCoy interact with either Goren/Eames or particularly Carver, McCoy and Carver are both great prosecutors but have very different styles, and seeing them work together would’ve been a treat. It’s really a shame they never did a CI/Mothership crossover or a CI/SVU crossover or a 3 way Mothership/CI/SVU crossover, that could’ve been awesome. At least we had some Mothership characters appear on CI, and then we had Eames and Barek appear on SVU in later seasons, although I disliked how they messed up CI’s ending with Eames’ appearances, I didn’t buy that Goren would move on from his job, there was no need for that. I did like Barek’s appearance in season 22 of SVU, and she even named dropped Goren casually which was great! 

[WendyCR72]

23 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yep, Goren with Munch/Fin would’ve been awesome! And it would’ve been great to see McCoy interact with either Goren/Eames or particularly Carver, McCoy and Carver are both great prosecutors but have very different styles, and seeing them work together would’ve been a treat. It’s really a shame they never did a CI/Mothership crossover or a CI/SVU crossover or a 3 way Mothership/CI/SVU crossover, that could’ve been awesome. At least we had some Mothership characters appear on CI, and then we had Eames and Barek appear on SVU in later seasons, although I disliked how they messed up CI’s ending with Eames’ appearances, I didn’t buy that Goren would move on from his job, there was no need for that. I did like Barek’s appearance in season 22 of SVU, and she even named dropped Goren casually which was great! 

I'm just thankful Barek wasn't pulling plugs on people or behaving wildly out of character during her SVU visit. Small victory but one nevertheless, at this point!

Nice to know she made Lieutenant.

[Xeliou66]

11 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

I'm just thankful Barek wasn't pulling plugs on people or behaving wildly out of character during her SVU visit. Small victory but one nevertheless, at this point!

Nice to know she made Lieutenant.

Agreed, SVU so frequently trashes characters for cheap drama now that it was nice that Barek made it out unscathed, and I liked that she mentioned Goren.

Back to CI episodes, I watched Monster today - this is an underrated episode, intricate plot with the victim’s son being not only a killer but a rapist as well and the mom finding out the detective got the wrong guys for the rape, so the detective killed her. That detective was pure scum, he had no regard for any of the lives he destroyed, and Mark was a real sicko as well. Really good detective work from Goren in this one, and I liked the ending where they confronted the suspects in the park, nice to see Carver out of the office assisting them as well.

[WendyCR72]

10 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Really good detective work from Goren in this one, and I liked the ending where they confronted the suspects in the park, nice to see Carver out of the office assisting them as well.

I liked Bobby taunting the dirty detective about making the best deal he can. The area where the '80s crime happened did look believably remote. (Seemed to be based on the whole case with the "Central Park Jogger" case in April 1989.) Also looked cold. That's another thing I like(d) about the franchise: New York seemed to be another prominent character, with all the changes in weather that entails.

[Xeliou66]

2 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

I liked Bobby taunting the dirty detective about making the best deal he can. The area where the '90s crime happened did look believably remote. (Seemed to be based on the whole case with the "Central Park Jogger" case in April 1989.) Also looked cold. That's another thing I like(d) about the franchise: New York seemed to be another prominent character, with all the changes in weather that entails.

Yeah that was good use of the scenery. The story was inspired by both the Central Park Jogger case and the Robert Chambers “preppy killer” case, it was a good storyline with ripped from the headlines stories but creating new twists on it. It was somewhat predictable, I knew where the story was going and called the cop as the killer the minute he appeared on screen the first time I watched the episode, but it was a good case with good investigation, Goren was his usual awesome self. Deakins seemed a bit off though, he was dead set on the son being the killer. 

[WendyCR72]

21 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Deakins seemed a bit off though, he was dead set on the son being the killer. 

Considering the son's criminal past, I sort of understand why he was fixated on him. But yeah, he should have kept a more open mind there.

And yeah, I remembered the Central Park jogger but forgot the Robert Chambers' part. The show merged both cases pretty well, all things considered.

[Xeliou66]

4 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Considering the son's criminal past, I sort of understand why he was fixated on him. But yeah, he should have kept a more open mind there.

And yeah, I remembered the Central Park jogger but forgot the Robert Chambers' part. The show merged both cases pretty well, all things considered.

Yeah Deakins seemed very reluctant to believe anyone other than the son was guilty - one thing I love about Goren is how he kept an open mind on cases, more so than any other detective on the franchise, he explored the cases with an open mind.

I thought this was a good example of a ripped from the headlines episode where they added in new twists on it. I know people have mixed feelings about ripped from the headlines episodes on the franchise, I personally don’t mind them and think they can make for interesting episodes. 

[WendyCR72]

On 9/9/2022 at 9:12 PM, Xeliou66 said:

I thought this was a good example of a ripped from the headlines episode where they added in new twists on it. I know people have mixed feelings about ripped from the headlines episodes on the franchise, I personally don’t mind them and think they can make for interesting episodes. 

Since, if I recall correctly, ripped from the headlines was the framework beginning all the way back in 1990, I'm surprised that some would have an issue about it. But we like what we like and don't what we don't.

Yeah, Goren kept an open mind from the start. Remember, he also did not jump to the murder/suicide theory when Ann Ellis was found hanging in "Art", all the way back in S1, not to mention the whole crime in "Badge".

I liked that Bobby was very outside the box, even if he sometimes annoyed people because of it.

[Xeliou66]

12 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Since, if I recall correctly, ripped from the headlines was the framework beginning all the way back in 1990, I'm surprised that some would have an issue about it. But we like what we like and don't what we don't.

Yeah, Goren kept an open mind from the start. Remember, he also did not jump to the murder/suicide theory when Ann Ellis was found hanging in "Art", all the way back in S1, not to mention the whole crime in "Badge".

I liked that Bobby was very outside the box, even if he sometimes annoyed people because of it.

Yep, season 1 of the Mothership was filled with “ripped from the headlines” cases, in fact almost every episode of season 1 was inspired by some real life event in one way or another, and it’s stayed that way with the franchise ever since. It’s been pretty much a staple of the L&O shows and I have no problem with it.

And yeah I love how Goren always thought outside the box and didn’t jump to obvious conclusions, instead he studied all the details to form his theories and didn’t let personal biases get in the way of his detective work.

[peacheslatour]

Quote

And yeah I love how Goren always thought outside the box and didn’t jump to obvious conclusions, instead he studied all the details to form his theories and didn’t let personal biases get in the way of his detective work.

Bobby looked at their cases and saw puzzles. When a normal person looks at a puzzle, they try to make the pieces fit the way that fits from their experiences. He looked at the puzzle for what it was. He didn't drag his own preconceived ideas into it.

[Shadow Lass]

On 9/8/2022 at 11:10 PM, WendyCR72 said:

Also looked cold. That's another thing I like(d) about the franchise: New York seemed to be another prominent character, with all the changes in weather that entails.

I've always loved the NYC set LAW & ORDER eps as well as other shows filmed in NYC (ELEMENTARY) because you see the characters out in the rain, snow, etc. Real weather. Not like the other series where it only snows in the Christmas episode and only rains when (1) needed for dramatics or (2) during a funeral.

Incidentally, Kathryn Erbe was in an episode of ELEMENTARY...