Law & Order: Criminal Intent - General Discussion

[Xeliou66]

5 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

No, the question of whether Nora could trust was directed at Ron, since he had told her that in this case, he did trust Bobby.

And in "Poison" I think it was, we got cameos from Lennie and Ed! But after that we got Foghorn in "In the Wee Hours", but no other cameos from the mothership.

But at least this show didn't shit upon the DA's office, even if they shat on Carver when he left. Meaning, the way he left.

It was a joke how they didn’t explain Carver’s exit.

Don’t forget about Van Buren’s appearance in Badge, but I hated that cameo, Van Buren was OOC and it didn’t make her look good that she trusted that psychopath bitch Randolph and seemed to have no issue with her beating up people etc. They botched that crossover appearance badly.

But the Briscoe/Green cameo in Poison was AWESOME!! I loved how Lennie called the commissioners office “those idiots” and then how Goren got Lennie and Ed to leak the story to the media and then when Deakins was wanting to know who talked, Goren/Eames kept their mouths shut.

And don’t forget Skoda appeared in Crazy and in a deleted scene in Tomorrow, and Olivet appeared in To The Bone. And of course ME Rodgers was a prominent character on both the Mothership and CI. But I do wish they had done more crossovers.

[GHScorpiosRule]

So I watched the first five seasons on Peacock--marathon watching. They'd show like maybe 25 second commercials...three times? But, but, after watching through season 4, like back to back, they aired them commercial free! Hee. I guess because I was marathon watching? But when I shut down for the day/night and continued the next day, it was back to watching with ads.

[WendyCR72]

8 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I saw the series premiere, One, last night and it’s noticeable how this show came out of the gate so strong, there were very few if any kinks that needed to be ironed out - all of the characters were themselves and the show’s format stayed the same throughout the first 5 seasons. It was notable how long the cold open was in One, but it worked, and Goren was great right off the bat. I also liked Nora Lewin’s cameo, while she was a rather bland character, it was nice to have a crossover to tie CI into the franchise. I loved how CI season 1 had so many crossovers, too bad they stopped doing that in later seasons.

The cold open was probably longer because it was the pilot, and it wanted to establish just what CI was about, which was the criminal and their motivations.

But I agree the characters were strong from word go. Bobby was still more "out of the box" while Alex was the rational detective. As I said, Alex was much more "cop"/straight arrow in the beginning versus later, but then she did say Bobby was an "acquired taste", and I think - being with him for so long - that was why she eventually became "softer", for lack of a better term.

The partner chemistry seemed great from the start, too. There did not seem to be the need to wait for it to gel.

[WendyCR72]

5 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

And don’t forget Skoda appeared in Crazy and in a deleted scene in Tomorrow, and Olivet appeared in To The Bone. And of course ME Rodgers was a prominent character on both the Mothership and CI. But I do wish they had done more crossovers.

Yeah, Rodgers was practically a "regular" on Criminal Intent! Which was great. I do wish we had seen more of Skoda and the rest, though. As I once said, I know Vincent D'Onofrio raved about Julia Ormond, and she was good as Dr. Gyson. But Olivet and/or Skoda could have worked in the role of Goren's shrink, too. Oh, well.

Or, to be realistic, maybe it was thought Goren would need a newer doctor who did not ever interact with him so as to have no preconceived notions? Shrug. (Skoda did. Olivet? Not on screen at all, but I could see G/E interacting with her off screen through the years on the job.)

[Xeliou66]

1 minute ago, WendyCR72 said:

Yeah, Rodgers was practically a "regular" on Criminal Intent! Which was great. I do wish we had seen more of Skoda and the rest, though. As I once said, I know Vincent D'Onofrio raved about Julia Ormond, and she was good as Dr. Gyson. But Olivet and/or Skoda could have worked in the role of Goren's shrink, too. Oh, well.

Or, to be realistic, maybe it was thought Goren would need a newer doctor who did not ever interact with him so as to have no preconceived notions? Shrug. (Skoda did. Olivet? Not on screen at all, but I could see G/E interacting with her off screen through the years on the job.)

Yeah I wish Skoda/Olivet had appeared more often on CI, especially since CI dealt with psychological stuff, it would’ve been nice to see them pop in and consult on occasion. I wish they had kept in Skoda’s deleted scene in Tomorrow, it helped explain the psychological motivations of the killer nannies and Skoda was awesome as usual.

And yes it was awesome that ME Rodgers was on CI a lot, she’s one of my favorites, although I hated how they implied her and Ross went out together. I would love for Rodgers to come back as the ME in the Mothership season 21, although after how they crapped on Jamie Ross I’m hesitant to wish for any beloved character to return to the show.

[WendyCR72]

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

And yes it was awesome that ME Rodgers was on CI a lot, she’s one of my favorites, although I hated how they implied her and Ross went out together. I would love for Rodgers to come back as the ME in the Mothership season 21, although after how they crapped on Jamie Ross I’m hesitant to wish for any beloved character to return to the show.

Yeah, right now, I don't know if I want Rodgers back or a new ME, if just for the fact that if the writers shit on said ME, I'd rather it be someone I have no investment in.

I always loved Rodgers' quips whenever Goren's guesses would prove correct:

"As much as I kick myself for saying this, Det. Goren was right..."

"Color me chagrined..."

And so forth. Although in "The Extra Man" (coming up soon probably as the show is back in S1!) I liked the scene where Goren and Rodgers were both standing against a wall, looking at...was it pictures?...as they both mirrored each other's stance with arms crossed, and quipping how "DuPont's" face was made into hamburger. Alex was also there, if I recall.

And I like when she would smack Goren's ever curious hands away. LOL!

[peacheslatour]

If we're discussing, crossover, I was always partial to Dr. Huang.

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, WendyCR72 said:

Yeah, right now, I don't know if I want Rodgers back or a new ME, if just for the fact that if the writers shit on said ME, I'd rather it be someone I have no investment in.

I always loved Rodgers' quips whenever Goren's guesses would prove correct:

"As much as I kick myself for saying this, Det. Goren was right..."

"Color me chagrined..."

And so forth. Although in "The Extra Man" (coming up soon probably as the show is back in S1!) I liked the scene where Goren and Rodgers were both standing against a wall, looking at...was it pictures?...as they both mirrored each other's stance with arms crossed, and quipping how "DuPont's" face was made into hamburger. Alex was also there, if I recall.

And I like when she would smack Goren's ever curious hands away. LOL!

I loved Rodgers back and forth with the detectives, and how she would get annoyed when the detectives got too up close and personal with the bodies. She did that on CI and the Mothership. I love Rodgers. 

 

1 hour ago, peacheslatour said:

If we're discussing, crossover, I was always partial to Dr. Huang.

Huang was pretty good, and he’s sorely missed on modern day SVU which could really use a recurring psych expert, but Skoda will always be my favorite psych expert.

[WendyCR72]

4 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Huang was pretty good, and he’s sorely missed on modern day SVU which could really use a recurring psych expert, but Skoda will always be my favorite psych expert.

This.

And "Smothered" is ending, with Geoffrey Nauffts as junkie Dale Van Acker. The forged letter (supposedly by Bobby's forger pal that was supposedly from Lois, his fiancé) to get Dale to break was always a clever move.

But I hate that they never show the short scene of Bobby with said forger friend! I remember Bobby checking on the friend's work in one of the interrogation rooms, asking, "How's it going?" Early Bobby with his many friends was always fun to watch.

Don't recall seeing it in ages. Just like the scene in "Purgatory" with Eames' temp partner talking about Lois (hey, another Lois!) Melago's involvement with the missing drugs [with Melago's partner walking out with his lawyer after spilling that news] is also never shown.

I guess there's always the DVDs if we want the uncut episodes. Since it seems Peacock uses the edited versions, too.

[Prairie Rose]

Maybe you guys could help me out. I'm trying to remember the episode where Goren and Eames go to some fancy dinner to arrest a suspect. Bobby just sits down and helps himself to the guy's steak! Priceless! 😂

[peacheslatour]

Quote

But I hate that they never show the short scene of Bobby with said forger friend! I remember Bobby checking on the friend's work in one of the interrogation rooms, asking, "How's it going?" Early Bobby with his many friends was always fun to watch.

And the scene where Alex says "I always love meeting your buddies."

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, Prairie Rose said:

Maybe you guys could help me out. I'm trying to remember the episode where Goren and Eames go to some fancy dinner to arrest a suspect. Bobby just sits down and helps himself to the guy's steak! Priceless! 😂

That would be season 3, episode 20, D.A.W, that was a hilarious scene when Goren starts eating the creepy murderous doctor’s steak.

[Prairie Rose]

3 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

That would be season 3, episode 20, D.A.W, that was a hilarious scene when Goren starts eating the creepy murderous doctor’s steak.

Thank you!! I crack up even just thinking about that scene. 😂

[GHScorpiosRule]

10 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

I guess there's always the DVDs if we want the uncut episodes. Since it seems Peacock uses the edited versions, too.

Well damn. I thought they were airing the full episodes. Just what the fuck is the point of their network, if they're not going to air the full episodes? NBC really fucked up and proved they know shit-all about streaming platforms.

[WendyCR72]

5 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Well damn. I thought they were airing the full episodes. Just what the fuck is the point of their network, if they're not going to air the full episodes? NBC really fucked up and proved they know shit-all about streaming platforms.

Yeah, I was happy to watch "Purgatory", as one example, thinking I'd finally see the whole episode again...and nope. Then I checked "Smothered"...and the same thing. Sigh. I know the cut scenes aren't vital per se, but they were in the original episodes, so show them!

7 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

And the scene where Alex says "I always love meeting your buddies."

That scene is still shown, in "The Pardoner's Tale" from S1. (Not a favorite of mine, but I remember seeing the scene!)

[Prairie Rose]

Remember Mark Linn-Baker as the perpetually awkward insurance investigator in "Probability"?

Eames: I didn't know you had an older, geekier brother.

[WendyCR72]

I have uploaded the scene with Bobby and his forger friend from "Smothered" [and this time, the audio works! YAY!]. If you want to see it, just click the link:

Bobby and his forger friend.

[Xeliou66]

3 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

I have uploaded the scene with Bobby and his forger friend from "Smothered" [and this time, the audio works! YAY!]. If you want to see it, just click the link:

Bobby and his forger friend.

Thanks for uploading that. 

[WendyCR72]

1 minute ago, Xeliou66 said:

Thanks for uploading that. 

You're welcome. Like I said, the scene isn't vital since G/E mention said forger at the end (which infers the letter from Lois to Dale was forged!), but the detail of seeing it come together and Bobby with one of his many early friends just adds a little something, I think.

As I said, the scenes from "Smothered" and "Purgatory" aired in first run, so I don't get why Peacock is fine with edited episodes.

[Xeliou66]

Poison was just on, one of my favorite episodes, the scene where Goren/Eames meet with Briscoe/Green will always be one of my favorite scenes, it was awesome to see them make a cameo on CI and I love Lennie calling the commissioner’s office “those idiots” and then Goren suggesting they leak the case to the media. It was one of the times I disagreed with Deakins, the case needed to be made public so people could be aware of the threat. I liked how when Deakins was asking who opened their mouth, Goren/Eames just kept silent.

Carver did seem to go along easily with Goren’s plan to indict the mother, which I found unusual, as Carver was very by the book, Goren’s plan to get Trudy to incriminate herself was clever but if it hadn’t worked it would’ve been a disaster.

Trudy was such an evil villain, she was ice cold and cared about nothing but opening her store. And her mom was just kind of pathetic and weak.  

[GHScorpiosRule]

36 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Trudy was such an evil villain, she was ice cold and cared about nothing but opening her store. And her mom was just kind of pathetic and weak

The actresses both appeared on the mothership before appearing on this show. Trudy’s actress was a brunette in, oh shoot—AH! “Severance” she was the designer who had just started dating one of the male victims/witnesses. And I think the actress who played the mother, played Cookie that was sort of based on the Kitty Genovese case. That twat, Talia Balsam played the defense attorney who got Cookie’s rapist off at the retrial.

[Prairie Rose]

7 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Trudy’s actress was a brunette in, oh shoot—AH! “Severance” she was the designer who had just started dating one of the male victims/witnesses. And I think the actress who played the mother, played Cookie that was sort of based on the Kitty Genovese case. That twat, Talia Balsam played the defense attorney who got Cookie’s rapist off at the retrial.

Yup, you are right in both cases. J. Smith-Cameron and Anita Gillette, respectively.

[peacheslatour]

Quote

Trudy was such an evil villain, she was ice cold and cared about nothing but opening her store. And her mom was just kind of pathetic and weak.  

She was so weird. A cold blooded murderer who wanted to open a cutesy baby clothes store. It's kind of an odd ambition for a homicidal maniac.

[GiandujaPie]

3 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Poison was just on, one of my favorite episodes, the scene where Goren/Eames meet with Briscoe/Green will always be one of my favorite scenes, it was awesome to see them make a cameo on CI and I love Lennie calling the commissioner’s office “those idiots” and then Goren suggesting they leak the case to the media. It was one of the times I disagreed with Deakins, the case needed to be made public so people could be aware of the threat. I liked how when Deakins was asking who opened their mouth, Goren/Eames just kept silent.

Carver did seem to go along easily with Goren’s plan to indict the mother, which I found unusual, as Carver was very by the book, Goren’s plan to get Trudy to incriminate herself was clever but if it hadn’t worked it would’ve been a disaster.

Trudy was such an evil villain, she was ice cold and cared about nothing but opening her store. And her mom was just kind of pathetic and weak.  

My favorite part of the episode is at the end when they show up to arrest Trudy at her baby clothes store and they literally have to pry her hands off the counter and drag her away. L:OL God she was a terrible person. The actress was also in that episode with Mark Ford Brady as the first victim identified who was alive. And Anita Gillette is always Catherine Willows's (from CSI) mom to me. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

32 minutes ago, GiandujaPie said:

My favorite part of the episode is at the end when they show up to arrest Trudy at her baby clothes store and they literally have to pry her hands off the counter and drag her awa

Oh I always 🤣🤣🤣 when I watch that scene! Willows is also one of the many actors who appeared on all three shows. Yeah, even on SVUShitshow as a rape victim.

[peacheslatour]

Quote

Quote

My favorite part of the episode is at the end when they show up to arrest Trudy at her baby clothes store and they literally have to pry her hands off the counter and drag her away.

 

Eames is like "I don't want to hurt you."

Narrator: She totally wanted to hurt her.

[WendyCR72]

As I said, I know it was another character entirely, but Trudy is why, when J. Smith Cameron appeared as one of Mark Ford Brady's victims in "Endgame" in S6, I had a hard time feeling sympathy for her, initially. LOL!

Just goes to show how nasty Trudy was!

[WendyCR72]

"Semi-Professional" from S1 just started on WE. I like this one if just for the fact that I liked Carver asking Alex if Bobby was always so sociable when working (as Bobby played with the trash can!), not to mention that Courtney B. Vance seemed to have a bigger role in this one with his history with the judges involved...

[Xeliou66]

10 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

"Semi-Professional" from S1 just started on WE. I like this one if just for the fact that I liked Carver asking Alex if Bobby was always so sociable when working (as Bobby played with the trash can!), not to mention that Courtney B. Vance seemed to have a bigger role in this one with his history with the judges involved...

I like that one as well - Carver got a big role in the episode and it was interesting how he was called to the crime scene before Goren/Eames, and he continued to have a strong role throughout. This episode was one of the 2 CI episodes where they name dropped Jack McCoy, and they mentioned Nora Lewin as well. So I liked the heavier amount of legal stuff. But god I hated that elitist, unqualified prick Blakemore, I know Sabatelli was the criminal mastermind of the episode and he was something of a prick with a chip on his shoulder but I was hoping Blakemore would be guilty of something. 

[WendyCR72]

11 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I like that one as well - Carver got a big role in the episode and it was interesting how he was called to the crime scene before Goren/Eames, and he continued to have a strong role throughout. This episode was one of the 2 CI episodes where they name dropped Jack McCoy, and they mentioned Nora Lewin as well. So I liked the heavier amount of legal stuff. But god I hated that elitist, unqualified prick Blakemore, I know Sabatelli was the criminal mastermind of the episode and he was something of a prick with a chip on his shoulder but I was hoping Blakemore would be guilty of something. 

I'd like to think with his arrest, Blakemore's extracurricular activities were exposed and he lost out on the position he and Sabatelli were up for. And that his wife divorced him. (Probably not on that part since it seems some upper-crust types tend to look the other way at a spouse cheating. But I'd still like to think so.)

[peacheslatour]

I'm watching Mothership Rage right now. I'm not really paying attention but then I hear a voice that I know. I look up and sure enough, it's Courtney B. Vance!

Edited March 8, 2022 by peacheslatour

[WendyCR72]

4 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

I'm watching Mothership Rage right now. I'm not really paying attention but then I hear a voice that I know. I look up and sure enough, it's Courtney B. Vance!

Yeah. He played the ice-cold murderer oh, so chillingly, on that one. Made the ending worth it.

[WendyCR72]

Brother and sister Kenny and Martha in "Maledictus" in S1 are still creepy as hell. (Just needed to say that as it is on WE as I type.)

[GiandujaPie]

7 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Brother and sister Kenny and Martha in "Maledictus" in S1 are still creepy as hell. (Just needed to say that as it is on WE as I type.)

Kenny and Martha were incestuous, right? I could never figure out their creepy relationship. 

[peacheslatour]

15 minutes ago, GiandujaPie said:

Kenny and Martha were incestuous, right? I could never figure out their creepy relationship. 

Well, he was a masochist and she infantilized him. No matter what, it was a sick, codependent relationship.

[WendyCR72]

7 hours ago, GiandujaPie said:

Kenny and Martha were incestuous, right? I could never figure out their creepy relationship. 

I think it was more like what @peacheslatour said. But still, creepy.

[peacheslatour]

Bit of nit pick here. I'm watching Dead, Goren and Eames get a search warrant for Harry Rowan's garage. Carver says "I'll go with you. Let me call home first." Goren says "We're not serving it tonight, Harry needs to get a good night's sleep tonight," In the next scene, Rowan is frantically tossing his own garage, including a full chest freezer. Madly searching for a porcelain cap. His wife comes in to inquire what the hell he is doing and he tells her it's late, go to bed. Then Goren and Eames walk in and he confesses. Carver is there. 

[GiandujaPie]

23 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

Bit of nit pick here. I'm watching Dead, Goren and Eames get a search warrant for Harry Rowan's garage. Carver says "I'll go with you. Let me call home first." Goren says "We're not serving it tonight, Harry needs to get a good night's sleep tonight," In the next scene, Rowan is frantically tossing his own garage, including a full chest freezer. Madly searching for a porcelain cap. His wife comes in to inquire what the hell he is doing and he tells her it's late, go to bed. Then Goren and Eames walk in and he confesses. Carver is there. 

I think we are supposed to infer that it is actually very early morning/middle of the night...Harry has literally stayed up all night looking for the tooth. 

[peacheslatour]

14 minutes ago, GiandujaPie said:

I think we are supposed to infer that it is actually very early morning/middle of the night...Harry has literally stayed up all night looking for the tooth. 

Okay but Goren wanted to make sure the kids were in school while they were there so it couldn't be the middle of the night? 

[WendyCR72]

6 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

Bit of nit pick here. I'm watching Dead, Goren and Eames get a search warrant for Harry Rowan's garage. Carver says "I'll go with you. Let me call home first." Goren says "We're not serving it tonight, Harry needs to get a good night's sleep tonight," In the next scene, Rowan is frantically tossing his own garage, including a full chest freezer. Madly searching for a porcelain cap. His wife comes in to inquire what the hell he is doing and he tells her it's late, go to bed. Then Goren and Eames walk in and he confesses. Carver is there. 

Yes, but it was the next morning. Just as Goren said. He wanted Rowan to panic, and he did. Notice when they exit the garage/house, it is morning/daylight.

[scriggle]

I was watching Tomorrow on WE. The ending always is a little confusing to me. They concoct a scheme to get Hannah to talk by having the victims' father provide a high priced lawyer for Sarah. And it works, Hannah blurts out everything as the father is leaving with Sarah. But then what? Does he somehow take back the bail for Sarah? Un-retain the high priced lawyer? Did the lawyer he retained know about the scheme? Because if she did, she's unethical. So many questions.

[Xeliou66]

5 hours ago, scriggle said:

I was watching Tomorrow on WE. The ending always is a little confusing to me. They concoct a scheme to get Hannah to talk by having the victims' father provide a high priced lawyer for Sarah. And it works, Hannah blurts out everything as the father is leaving with Sarah. But then what? Does he somehow take back the bail for Sarah? Un-retain the high priced lawyer? Did the lawyer he retained know about the scheme? Because if she did, she's unethical. So many questions.

I assume he would quit paying for the high priced lawyer, and yeah if the lawyer knew about the scheme she would be very unethical, but I doubt she did. Carver could try to have Sara’s bail revoked, who knows if he would succeed, but I assume Hannah would please guilty and testify against Sara, which meant Sara might plead guilty as well rather than go to trial. I like that episode, it’s rather bizarre but unique and compelling, but yeah the ending is somewhat confusing and I wondered what would happen with regards to the victims father paying for the lawyer and all.

[peacheslatour]

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

I assume he would quit paying for the high priced lawyer, and yeah if the lawyer knew about the scheme she would be very unethical, but I doubt she did. Carver could try to have Sara’s bail revoked, who knows if he would succeed, but I assume Hannah would please guilty and testify against Sara, which meant Sara might plead guilty as well rather than go to trial. I like that episode, it’s rather bizarre but unique and compelling, but yeah the ending is somewhat confusing and I wondered what would happen with regards to the victims father paying for the lawyer and all.

So back to Shatenstein, again?

[Xeliou66]

5 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

So back to Shatenstein, again?

She would probably be assigned another public defender, not the same one that was representing Hannah. 

[WendyCR72]

And the actress playing the snooty second wife of the airline magnate in that episode, "Tomorrow" in S2, Noelle Beck, would return in S10 as Debra Brite in "Rispetto".

[Sigmagirl]

So it just occurred to me: After Dr. Charles Webb goes off to prison in "Crazy," does scheming Sarah Lindstrom end up with the Judas Ullulaq sculpture after all? 
 

also: all respect to Inuit culture and traditions, but it must be harsh to carry around the name Judas. I mean I thought Cain was bad.

[WendyCR72]

2 hours ago, Sigmagirl said:

So it just occurred to me: After Dr. Charles Webb goes off to prison in "Crazy," does scheming Sarah Lindstrom end up with the Judas Ullulaq sculpture after all? 
 

also: all respect to Inuit culture and traditions, but it must be harsh to carry around the name Judas. I mean I thought Cain was bad.

Anything is possible. Sarah just seemed like a tease. I mean, Dr. Webb was creepy with a capital C, but she should have been honest EARLY on and said she wasn't interested. Instead, she seemed to lead Dr. Crazy on, making him think he had a shot, when it was clear Sarah had one foot out the door.

While Webb killing her ex-BIL wasn't her fault, maybe had she been honest from word go and not encouraged a relationship, Webb would not have felt the need to "impress" her in his sick way.

[Xeliou66]

I didn’t like Sara Lindstrom from Crazy at all - she was leading the obsessed Dr Webb on, and I’m not sure what she got out of the relationship, it was weird. No one was sympathetic in that episode, not Dr Webb, not the hitman, not the victim who was rigging the court proceedings, not the ex wife/Sara’s sister who got her daughter to fabricate the abuse claims and not Sara. A very good episode but no character was likable. I loved seeing Skoda come in to help out, it’s too bad he didn’t appear more, CI had a lot of complex suspects that could use a psych profile.

[WendyCR72]

10 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

not the ex wife/Sara’s sister who got her daughter to fabricate the abuse claims

Except Sophie didn't. She told Bobby the truth about pooping her pants. Julie Feldman, however, even knowing why her kid was groggy and red "down there" after her visit with her father was the one who took her daughter to the hospital and made that untrue accusation to get back at her ex in court.

As I said before, as the kids got older, I hope they learned what their mother did and made her life hell. Yeah, their dad also sounded like a controlling asshat, but that accusation was the excuse Crazy Charlie used to kill their father.

[WendyCR72]

"Shandeh" with the now-late Ned Eisenberg as wimpy Danny is just ending on WE. He was so meek it made me wonder why his wife, Kelly, would convert for him.