Law & Order: Criminal Intent - General Discussion

[WendyCR72]

2 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

It just didn’t reflect well on Van Buren to be defending a stone cold sociopath who murdered a family in cold blood. Usually Van Buren was much more objective, and it seemed like that she wouldn’t respect Randolph after knowing her MO of roughing up people, something which she would never tolerate from one of her own detectives. Van Buren just seemed off to me and it bugged me as someone who is a big Van Buren fan, she’s one of my favorites on the Mothership, I wish her appearance had been done better.

At least Green/Briscoe (especially wisecracking Lennie!) seemed to be more true to form with their cameo appearance, not to mention Branch's later on...

[Xeliou66]

12 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

At least Green/Briscoe (especially wisecracking Lennie!) seemed to be more true to form with their cameo appearance, not to mention Branch's later on...

Oh yes the other crossover cameos were really well done - I loved the Briscoe/Green cameo in Poison, that was awesome seeing them assist Goren/Eames, and Branch was his usual colorful self in his cameo. Also Skoda was great when he appeared, and Nora’s cameo in the pilot was fine. Still really wish Jack had appeared on this show. But yeah all of the crossovers were well done aside from Van Buren’s.

[peacheslatour]

20 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Oh yes the other crossover cameos were really well done - I loved the Briscoe/Green cameo in Poison, that was awesome seeing them assist Goren/Eames, and Branch was his usual colorful self in his cameo. Also Skoda was great when he appeared, and Nora’s cameo in the pilot was fine. Still really wish Jack had appeared on this show. But yeah all of the crossovers were well done aside from Van Buren’s.

The perp in that one has been in like 10 L&O's, she's really fun to hate.

[Xeliou66]

7 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

The perp in that one has been in like 10 L&O's, she's really fun to hate.

The perp in Poison? She’s been in 7 episodes across the L&O franchise, all as different characters. Trudy in Poison was a chilling villain, she cared about nothing but opening her store, she was pure evil. 

[WendyCR72]

2 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

The perp in Poison? She’s been in 7 episodes across the L&O franchise, all as different characters. Trudy in Poison was a chilling villain, she cared about nothing but opening her store, she was pure evil. 

J. Smith Cameron certainly played a sociopath quite effectively in "Poison". As I said before, it was a big reason why it seemed so disconcerting when she returned to CI in "Endgame" in S6 as an actual living victim of Mark Ford Brady's. I still remembered Trudy Pomeranski from S1 vividly!

[WendyCR72]

Chris Noth accused of sexual assault by two women. This sickens me.

[peacheslatour]

54 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Chris Noth accused of sexual assault by two women. This sickens me.

I always thought there was something a little off about him but I never thought it would be something like that.

[WendyCR72]

The whole Chris Noth scandal is airing right now on NBC Nightly News. I hope this isn't true, but it doesn't sound good...

[peacheslatour]

8 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

The whole Chris Noth scandal is airing right now on NBC Nightly News. I hope this isn't true, but it doesn't sound good...

The main question is what will it do to Peloton's stock?

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, WendyCR72 said:

The whole Chris Noth scandal is airing right now on NBC Nightly News. I hope this isn't true, but it doesn't sound good...

Yes the allegations are very disturbing. I hate that Noth may be a scumbag as I’ve always liked him as an actor and thought he was great as Logan. I’m able to separate the actors from the characters they play and still enjoy shows/movies with actors who I think are lousy people, but this is very disappointing. 

[WendyCR72]

Ironically, shit has also hit the fan with another actor that appeared on this show (in a guest-starring role): Jeff Garlin, who plays the father on The Goldbergs on ABC, has exited that show after an HR investigation into bad behavior on set.

You may remember him: He played the Harvey Weinstein-esque movie producer, Barry Freeberg, in "Contract", who killed Mo Rocca's gossip columnist character. Which was, ironically, a Logan/Wheeler episode [and Julianne Nicholson's first since her maternity leave].

[WendyCR72]

Yeah, a discussion in the Mothership forum brings up a similar question here. The show is in the midst of its early seasons in terms of rotation right now, but once Season 4 with "Stress Position" rolls around, I wonder if Sundance and/or WE will show Logan's era or skip or pull the show completely? (I hope not. One character should not ruin things, but then I think of The Cosby Show being pulled because of Bill Cosby and the 7th Heaven (which I never watched) ickfest with one of its stars there, and it makes me wonder...)

I do feel awful for the victims, all being said. If true, I hope they can somehow get justice and hope there is no statute of limitations or whatnot.

Why can't some actors not turn out to be nasty individuals?

[Xeliou66]

12 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Yeah, a discussion in the Mothership forum brings up a similar question here. The show is in the midst of its early seasons in terms of rotation right now, but once Season 4 with "Stress Position" rolls around, I wonder if Sundance and/or WE will show Logan's era or skip or pull the show completely? (I hope not. One character should not ruin things, but then I think of The Cosby Show being pulled because of Bill Cosby and the 7th Heaven (which I never watched) ickfest with one of its stars there, and it makes me wonder...)

I do feel awful for the victims, all being said. If true, I hope they can somehow get justice and hope there is no statute of limitations or whatnot.

Why can't some actors not turn out to be nasty individuals?

I really hope they don’t pull the Logan episodes on either the Mothership or CI, there are so many good episodes with him and they shouldn’t be pulled just because he’s probably a scumbag in real life. I’m glad I have the DVDs but I usually watch the episodes on tv and I would really miss the Logan episodes.

I’m very disappointed with Noth, and it’s looking more and more like the allegations are probably true, and if so Noth belongs in a jail cell. Sickening stuff, and yeah I hate how many people in Hollywood turn out to be scum. But I can still separate actors from characters and enjoy a show/movie with an actor who I think is a bad person.

[WendyCR72]

I did watch Daredevil when it was on Netflix but really have not kept up with the superhero genre. But I read that VDO has appeared on the mini series, Hawkeye, on Disney+.

[WendyCR72]

I don't know if anyone here watched The Equalizer (newer version with Queen Latifah), but Chris Noth has been axed from the show.

[Cristofle]

On 12/20/2021 at 2:45 AM, WendyCR72 said:

I did watch Daredevil when it was on Netflix but really have not kept up with the superhero genre. But I read that VDO has appeared on the mini series, Hawkeye, on Disney+.

Yes, he has. To my delight. VDO's portrayal of Kingpin is one of my favorites of the onscreen Marvel villains. And this brings him back into the MCU, so he can appear in other things.

[peacheslatour]

I heard another great Eamsism today while watching The Third Horseman. They are questioning the murderer of an abortion doctor and the perp's lawyer goes "My client is invoking his right to silence." She deadpans "Yeah well he doesn't have the right to be deaf so I guess he'll have to listen to our questions."

[WendyCR72]

I love Alex Eames and her "give no fucks" attitude toward the usual lawyer speak. I remember, too, in "Malignant" in Season 2, when the lawyer blah blahs about her client having no knowledge and Alex sort of interrupts and says [paraphrasing as I cannot remember word for word], "And he was afraid for his life, blah, blah..."

G/E sort of tag-teamed each other when telling the lawyer about the evidence they had and how long he had to talk to strike a deal before his friend did. Loved that.

[Xeliou66]

I saw A Murderer Among Us tonight, that episode has one of the most chilling villains on CI in Lance Brody, he was so filled with rage and hate. Good episode, but I found it somewhat far-fetched in that Brody’s wife was able to stage her suicide to look like a murder so well, and I also thought that Goren was able to zero in on Brody being a killer quite easily.

Next up was Sound Bodies, another stellar episode with a memorable villain in Connie. One thing I noticed about this episode and found odd is how they called City Island “Channel Island” instead of using its actual name, the crimes clearly happened on City Island, they even mentioned Hart’s Island which is right across from City Island by name, but they used the made up “Channel Island”, that was interesting, maybe the people living on City Island objected to having the community having poisonings and drownings occur there. Whatever reason, it was very odd. But it’s a great episode with a compelling investigation and a memorable villain.

[WendyCR72]

Yeah, "A Murderer Among Us" was just chilling. The actor playing Lance Brody certainly sold the hatred and bigotry. As did the actress playing his sister. (Makes me wonder how she would react to finding out her brother was a serial killer of Jewish men and that her own niece is Jewish, etc.)

And the way Lance screamed, "CLAAAAAAIIIIIIIRRRRRRREEEEEEE!!!" as he was being led away made MY throat hurt.

And yeah, I think the deal with City Island was a lack of clearance, hence the workaround.

By the way, the actor playing Lance Brody also appeared in "Jones" in Season 1 as Henry Talbot's bookie, who called him to "settle up" (at G/E's urging), causing his wife to appear instead and get arrested. (His hair was a lot darker in S1; all gray just two seasons later!)

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, WendyCR72 said:

Yeah, "A Murderer Among Us" was just chilling. The actor playing Lance Brody certainly sold the hatred and bigotry. As did the actress playing his sister. (Makes me wonder how she would react to finding out her brother was a serial killer of Jewish men and that her own niece is Jewish, etc.)

And the way Lance screamed, "CLAAAAAAIIIIIIIRRRRRRREEEEEEE!!!" as he was being led away made MY throat hurt.

And yeah, I think the deal with City Island was a lack of clearance, hence the workaround.

By the way, the actor playing Lance Brody also appeared in "Jones" in Season 1 as Henry Talbot's bookie, who called him to "settle up" (at G/E's urging), causing his wife to appear instead and get arrested. (His hair was a lot darker in S1; all gray just two seasons later!)

Oh yeah Brody’s sister was a bigoted witch as well, she was quite nasty. I felt very bad for the daughter, to lose her mom then find out her dad is a serial killer/hate murderer.

And yeah the City Island/Channel Island thing was funny to me, because they rarely used made up locations on L&O and it was so obviously City Island, very strange. But Sound Bodies is a great episode.

[peacheslatour]

Quote

Oh yeah Brody’s sister was a bigoted witch as well, she was quite nasty. I felt very bad for the daughter, to lose her mom then find out her dad is a serial killer/hate murderer.

How about the sister/sisters in Posthumous Collection?Can you even imagine a childhood like that?

[Xeliou66]

Just now, peacheslatour said:

How about the sister/sisters in Posthumous Collection?Can you even imagine a childhood like that?

Oh good god those witches were the worst. I think the perp in that episode may have had the most dysfunctional family in the shows history, and that’s saying something.

[WendyCR72]

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

Oh good god those witches were the worst. I think the perp in that episode may have had the most dysfunctional family in the shows history, and that’s saying something.

"He's a boy. He could take it!"

And the fact that Doris was still laughing about it, so matter of fact, telling G/E to tell Spencer hi for her. Talk about fucked up in the head.

On another tragic real-life note, apparently Alicia Witt's (Nola Falacci) parents in Massachusetts were both found dead during a wellness check as she hadn't heard from them for a while. From what I read, there was no sign of foul play or trauma. (If I were to elicit a guess, and that is ALL this is, maybe something like carbon monoxide poisoning, which is odorless, etc.)

How awful to happen at any time, but to happen during the holidays must be excruciating for her. 😥

ETA: After fully reading the People article, I guess the parents had furnace issues but cops said they found no evidence of carbon monoxide. So I guess my theory was wrong. Either way, what a tragedy.

[Xeliou66]

Mad Hops was on tonight, this is one of my favorite season 3 episodes, such a good, in depth case and investigation but unlike some other episodes I never got lost and everything made sense, I liked how they tied Powell to both murders and pieced everything together. I liked seeing Goren’s knowledge of basketball, and I liked how he confronted Powell at the end. Powell was despicable, he killed two people all because he was desperate to win over the player’s mother, and speaking of Karen Watkins I didn’t find her sympathetic at all, she was stringing Powell along just to help her son out.

[WendyCR72]

14 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Mad Hops was on tonight, this is one of my favorite season 3 episodes, such a good, in depth case and investigation but unlike some other episodes I never got lost and everything made sense, I liked how they tied Powell to both murders and pieced everything together. I liked seeing Goren’s knowledge of basketball, and I liked how he confronted Powell at the end. Powell was despicable, he killed two people all because he was desperate to win over the player’s mother, and speaking of Karen Watkins I didn’t find her sympathetic at all, she was stringing Powell along just to help her son out.

Karen Watkins was just another Sarah Lindstrom (the one leading the murderous Dr. Webb on in "Crazy"!). She obviously didn't have the strongest of feelings for Powell, but she liked what his money could do for her kid.

I'm guessing we were supposed to feel sorry for her, but I never did.

And while I was always happy to see the return of Eames in "Unrequited" right after, it's weird how the franchise never seemed to give the temp partners any exit scenes. Didn't for Bishop and didn't for Falacci. Just poof! Gone.

[peacheslatour]

Quote

And while I was always happy to see the return of Eames in "Unrequited" right after, it's weird how the franchise never seemed to give the temp partners any exit scenes. Didn't for Bishop and didn't for Falacci. Just poof! Gone.

That sucks. I loved Falacci.

[Sigmagirl]

3 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

That sucks. I loved Falacci.

Me too. She was my favorite of all the women detectives after Eames.

[peacheslatour]

8 minutes ago, Sigmagirl said:

Me too. She was my favorite of all the women detectives after Eames.

Same.

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, WendyCR72 said:

Karen Watkins was just another Sarah Lindstrom (the one leading the murderous Dr. Webb on in "Crazy"!). She obviously didn't have the strongest of feelings for Powell, but she liked what his money could do for her kid.

I'm guessing we were supposed to feel sorry for her, but I never did.

And while I was always happy to see the return of Eames in "Unrequited" right after, it's weird how the franchise never seemed to give the temp partners any exit scenes. Didn't for Bishop and didn't for Falacci. Just poof! Gone.

Good comparison between Karen Watkins and Sarah Lindstrom. I still don’t get why Sarah Lindstrom was stringing on Dr Webb, I don’t see what she got out of the relationship with him. I didn’t like either woman though, they were both unsympathetic. 

[WendyCR72]

So, I'm watching "Pas De Deux" on WE with dumb Margie, the stupidest chemistry teacher on earth. And this time, when G/E interview folks - like the flooring guy (when G/E posed as a couple shopping for flooring in the kids' room...) and dance teacher just before Bobby meets drippy Margie - this time, I distinctly heard "Johnny" versus "Donnie", i.e. Charles Rocket's thief/murdering character.

And here I always thought it was the latter name - for the last 18 years or so. And IMDB lists the character as Johnny DePalma. Huh. Who knew?!

ETA: Yet VDO/Goren calls him Donnie to Margie in the interrogation room. LOL! And so did KE/Eames, "Dancing Donnie". Ah, well.

[Sigmagirl]

Well, if I were a murderous bank robber, I’d certainly use an alias.

[WendyCR72]

4 hours ago, Sigmagirl said:

Well, if I were a murderous bank robber, I’d certainly use an alias.

True. But it begs the question of which it is, since it is Donnie/Johnny, etc. I think it's hilarious how no one could keep the name straight!

[WendyCR72]

Per listings, I see "The Saint" (with Stephen Colbert!) and "Conscience" are airing on WE late night/early morning. Always wondered if Colbert gets any royalties from the episode. Probably not (not that he needs it!), but it does make me wonder...

Happy New Year to any and all posters and lurkers here!

[peacheslatour]

7 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Per listings, I see "The Saint" (with Stephen Colbert!) and "Conscience" are airing on WE late night/early morning. Always wondered if Colbert gets any royalties from the episode. Probably not (not that he needs it!), but it does make me wonder...

Happy New Year to any and all posters and lurkers here!

Same to you!

[WendyCR72]

Got the day wrong, apparently. These will air early Monday morning. I also get a kick out of the fact that the actress playing the victim in "The Saint" (with the death by exploding Christmas present!) went on to play Wilson Fisk's mother (a.k.a. VDO!) in Daredevil years later.

[WendyCR72]

"D.A.W." with Kevin Tighe as the creepy druggie doctor just started on WE. How his girlfriend's skin didn't crawl is beyond me. He was creepy.

But on a very shallow note, I think it is the only time we saw Bobby/VDO wearing a leather jacket.

[Xeliou66]

15 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

"D.A.W." with Kevin Tighe as the creepy druggie doctor just started on WE. How his girlfriend's skin didn't crawl is beyond me. He was creepy.

But on a very shallow note, I think it is the only time we saw Bobby/VDO wearing a leather jacket.

Lingard was beyond creepy, the whole way he acted was just strange, remember how he said to the patient’s husband he was having dinner with “you should’ve seen her when she was 24” or something like that. It is a good episode, although at the end I wondered if they had enough evidence to arrest Lingard, didn’t he ask for his lawyer a few minutes before he blurted out his confession, and that might make his statements inadmissible. 

[WendyCR72]

7 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Lingard was beyond creepy, the whole way he acted was just strange, remember how he said to the patient’s husband he was having dinner with “you should’ve seen her when she was 24”

Yeah, that line was disgusting. I never saw Kevin Tighe in his good-guy role on Emergency since it literally began the year I was born, and I do not recall ever seeing it in syndication.

But he played creepy so well that I'm not sure I'd buy the hero-ish turn even if I ever did see the show! (And that is a compliment, since Lingard was so skeevy. Tighe seemed to delight in playing up the sleazy drug addict.)

[bkathi]

6 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Yeah, that line was disgusting. I never saw Kevin Tighe in his good-guy role on Emergency since it literally began the year I was born, and I do not recall ever seeing it in syndication.

 

Emergency is on COZI TV - if you get that channel.

[peacheslatour]

3 hours ago, bkathi said:

Emergency is on COZI TV - if you get that channel.

Yep and he looks completely different there. He plays a good guy, clean cut straight arrow. The diametric opposite of creepy  Lingard. You wouldn't recognize him as being the same actor.

[WendyCR72]

Film director and recurring CI character actor Peter Bogdanovich has died at 82. He played George Merritt, the answer to Hugh Hefner in charge of fictional Privilege (a.k.a. the bargain-basement version of Playboy!) magazine, in "Sex Club" and "Bombshell".

I never knew "Sex Club" was based on something true, as well. (And involved someone who appeared on this very show later on!) Scroll down to background info.

[WendyCR72]

Watching the end of "Collective", a.k.a. the poor man's Anne Rice episode, and I see "Stress Position" is airing next, so I guess WE is not pulling Chris Noth episodes.

[WendyCR72]

Ironically, as I had just mentioned it a couple days ago, "Sex Club" is on WE (featuring the now-late Peter Bogdanovich) now. And after that, is creepy Tommy Onorato (Chris Penn) in "Death Roe".

[Xeliou66]

12 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Ironically, as I had just mentioned it a couple days ago, "Sex Club" is on WE (featuring the now-late Peter Bogdanovich) now. And after that, is creepy Tommy Onorato (Chris Penn) in "Death Roe".

As I’ve said before, Tommy from Death Roe is one of the most evil monsters in the history of CI, hell the history of the whole L&O franchise, as Goren said, he’s an ogre. I love the episode but Tommy was just an abominable excuse for a human being - setting up an elaborate scheme to brutally murder 2 people all so he could continue to rape his daughter. 

[WendyCR72]

2 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

As I’ve said before, Tommy from Death Roe is one of the most evil monsters in the history of CI, hell the history of the whole L&O franchise, as Goren said, he’s an ogre. I love the episode but Tommy was just an abominable excuse for a human being - setting up an elaborate scheme to brutally murder 2 people all so he could continue to rape his daughter. 

It's so weird to think he played the sweet Willard (and looked so different physically!) in the original Footloose. As disgusting as Tommy was, Chris Penn played the hell out of the role.

In other news, I know he had expressed interest prior on Twitter a couple years ago, but here is a new article from yesterday where, again, VDO seems open to revisiting Bobby Goren.

Will it happen? Who knows.

[peacheslatour]

2 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

It's so weird to think he played the sweet Willard (and looked so different physically!) in the original Footloose. As disgusting as Tommy was, Chris Penn played the hell out of the role.

I know he had expressed interest prior on Twitter a couple years ago, but here is a new article from yesterday where, again, VDO seems open to revising Bobby Goren.

Will it happen? Who knows.

Well, they're bringing back Mothership, so maybe there will be room for a brilliant retired consulting detective ala Mycroft Holmes?

[Xeliou66]

4 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

It's so weird to think he played the sweet Willard (and looked so different physically!) in the original Footloose. As disgusting as Tommy was, Chris Penn played the hell out of the role.

In other news, I know he had expressed interest prior on Twitter a couple years ago, but here is a new article from yesterday where, again, VDO seems open to revisiting Bobby Goren.

Will it happen? Who knows.

I would love to see Goren again - but only under certain circumstances. I don’t want him on modern day SVU, which is a total shitshow soap opera that shits on popular characters for no reason, keep Goren far away from the St Olivia hour. If they were to do a Criminal Intent movie or something with Goren and Eames working on a case, that would be awesome, and I would be happy to see Goren on the Mothership revival as well, obviously I have no clue if the revival will be any good but it would be cool to have Goren and Jack McCoy share a scene. 

[WendyCR72]

10 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

I would love to see Goren again - but only under certain circumstances. I don’t want him on modern day SVU, which is a total shitshow soap opera that shits on popular characters for no reason, keep Goren far away from the St Olivia hour. If they were to do a Criminal Intent movie or something with Goren and Eames working on a case, that would be awesome, and I would be happy to see Goren on the Mothership revival as well, obviously I have no clue if the revival will be any good but it would be cool to have Goren and Jack McCoy share a scene. 

Yeah, I'm curious about Goren/McCoy, myself. And it goes without saying, but I'd want Kathryn Erbe/Alex Eames returning, too. I'd love to see both interact with McCoy since both characters never had the opportunity on Criminal Intent.

[peacheslatour]

31 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Yeah, I'm curious about Goren/McCoy, myself. And it goes without saying, but I'd want Kathryn Erbe/Alex Eames returning, too. I'd love to see both interact with McCoy since both characters never had the opportunity on Criminal Intent.

That was a foolish omission.