Law & Order: Criminal Intent - General Discussion

[peacheslatour]

Speaking of Season 4, Magnificat is on right now. I can't even watch most of it because I hate the dad so fucking much.

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, peacheslatour said:

Speaking of Season 4, Magnificat is on right now. I can't even watch most of it because I hate the dad so fucking much.

That was an episode in which I was really disappointed in Carver in for not prosecuting the father. I didn’t buy that they had nothing they could charge him with, he was criminally negligent to say the least, he knew the mom was unstable and left the kids with her anyway. I didn’t buy that they couldn’t charge him.

[peacheslatour]

4 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

That was an episode in which I was really disappointed in Carver in for not prosecuting the father. I didn’t buy that they had nothing they could charge him with, he was criminally negligent to say the least, he knew the mom was unstable and left the kids with her anyway. I didn’t buy that they couldn’t charge him.

I don't know but it did seem like something could be done. I loved Goren's emotional "Mr. Carver!" He could act circles around most actors.

[Xeliou66]

3 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

I don't know but it did seem like something could be done. I loved Goren's emotional "Mr. Carver!" He could act circles around most actors.

As I’ve said before, it is interesting how they never called Carver by his first name, always the very formal “Mr. Carver”, not once was his first name ever used. They were very formal on this show, first names were rarely used, compared to the other L&O shows where first names are used a lot more. Even most of the detective partners used each other’s last names. 

 

[WendyCR72]

7 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

As I’ve said before, it is interesting how they never called Carver by his first name, always the very formal “Mr. Carver”, not once was his first name ever used. They were very formal on this show, first names were rarely used, compared to the other L&O shows where first names are used a lot more. Even most of the detective partners used each other’s last names. 

 

On this show, it seemed like first names were used only in dramatic/highly emotional moments. Bobby usually always called Alex "Eames", but in "Amends" when speaking about Joe's killer, he did call her Alex. Also did the same in the finale.

Alex seemed to alternate between Bobby and Goren, but the former seemed to also be during dramatic/emotional moments, too.

[Xeliou66]

8 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

On this show, it seemed like first names were used only in dramatic/highly emotional moments. Bobby usually always called Alex "Eames", but in "Amends" when speaking about Joe's killer, he did call her Alex. Also did the same in the finale.

Alex seemed to alternate between Bobby and Goren, but the former seemed to also be during dramatic/emotional moments, too.

Yes - I think Goren only called Eames “Alex” twice, in Amends and in the series finale. Eames called Goren “Bobby” plenty of times though. It was interesting to me how even partners almost always used their last names. We never even heard Bishop or Falacci’s first name. Deakins did call the detectives by their first name on occasion, and I found it noteworthy how in season 10 Goren and Joe Hannah were on a first name basis. But yeah this show rarely used first names and they were more formal with each other compared to other L&O shows, where first names were used a lot more often. 

[peacheslatour]

5 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yes - I think Goren only called Eames “Alex” twice, in Amends and in the series finale. Eames called Goren “Bobby” plenty of times though. It was interesting to me how even partners almost always used their last names. We never even heard Bishop or Falacci’s first name. Deakins did call the detectives by their first name on occasion, and I found it noteworthy how in season 10 Goren and Joe Hannah were on a first name basis. But yeah this show rarely used first names and they were more formal with each other compared to other L&O shows, where first names were used a lot more often. 

I kind of like it.

[WendyCR72]

12 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yes - I think Goren only called Eames “Alex” twice, in Amends and in the series finale. Eames called Goren “Bobby” plenty of times though. It was interesting to me how even partners almost always used their last names. We never even heard Bishop or Falacci’s first name. Deakins did call the detectives by their first name on occasion, and I found it noteworthy how in season 10 Goren and Joe Hannah were on a first name basis. But yeah this show rarely used first names and they were more formal with each other compared to other L&O shows, where first names were used a lot more often. 

Yeah, Bishop's first name was known, I think, only in press write-ups. And to name her as G. Lynn Bishop was weird in itself as it was never specified just what that "G" stood for. Shrug. Falacci? Same deal. Press write up. Nola Falacci.

And yeah, Bobby calling Joe Hannah by his first name must have been a way to show their history (as the press stuff had them as friends from going through the Academy together). And Bobby was rarely as prickly with Hannah as he was with Ross (and, on rare occasions, Deakins!). See when Hannah called him out for skipping his therapy sessions. Hannah made it clear he would back Bobby, but that he had damned well better do as he was told, in so many words... Bobby would have challenged Deakins/Ross in such a scenario. But didn't with Hannah.

The difference was subtle, but apparent.

[Xeliou66]

13 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Yeah, Bishop's first name was known, I think, only in press write-ups. And to name her as G. Lynn Bishop was weird in itself as it was never specified just what that "G" stood for. Shrug. Falacci? Same deal. Press write up. Nola Falacci.

And yeah, Bobby calling Joe Hannah by his first name must have been a way to show their history (as the press stuff had them as friends from going through the Academy together). And Bobby was rarely as prickly with Hannah as he was with Ross (and, on rare occasions, Deakins!). See when Hannah called him out for skipping his therapy sessions. Hannah made it clear he would back Bobby, but that he had damned well better do as he was told, in so many words... Bobby would have challenged Deakins/Ross in such a scenario. But didn't with Hannah.

The difference was subtle, but apparent.

I found it very weird how we never knew Bishop’s or Falacci’s first name. 

I liked Joe Hannah and it was noteworthy how him and Goren were on a first name basis and definitely knew each other for a while, they never called the previous captains by their first names, and Deakins only occasionally called the detectives by their first names. 

But yeah I’ve always found it noteworthy how first names were rarely used on this show, sometimes the partners would use eac( others first names, and that was about it. It was different from the Mothership and SVU where first names were used much more often and detectives and prosecutors were on a more first name basis even. 

[WendyCR72]

Just read that former CNN talk-show host Larry King died. I put it here because he made a cameo on this show in the episode "Weeping Willow" in Season 6, the episode where Michelle Trachtenberg's character stages her own kidnapping.

(He was at the very end on one of the big-ass Times Square monitors interviewing Trachtenberg's character about her upcoming plans.)

May he RIP.

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, WendyCR72 said:

Just read that former CNN talk-show host Larry King died. I put it here because he made a cameo on this show in the episode "Weeping Willow" in Season 6, the episode where Michelle Trachtenberg's character stages her own kidnapping.

(He was at the very end on one of the big-ass Times Square monitors interviewing Trachtenberg's character about her upcoming plans.)

May he RIP.

Yes I liked Larry King’s cameo in that episode, I always liked when people played themselves on the franchise, it gave it a very realistic feel. 

King also appeared on the L&O Trial By Jury episode Day, where he interviewed the rich, powerful mother of a serial rapist, that episode was the second part of a crossover that began with the SVU episode Night. 

RIP Larry King. 

[Ebau]

On 1/23/2021 at 3:20 PM, Xeliou66 said:

King also appeared on the L&O Trial By Jury episode Day, where he interviewed the rich, powerful mother of a serial rapist, that episode was the second part of a crossover that began with the SVU episode Night. 

Was that the one where Alfred Molina played the rapist? From time to time, I see Part II on one of the other L&O shows (I forget which one) and it's frustrating, because L&O:TBJ is not shown in reruns, so you can't really get caught up on what's happened with the case up to that point. But I thought TBJ was a pretty good series, for what little of it aired. 

[Xeliou66]

11 minutes ago, Ebau said:

Was that the one where Alfred Molina played the rapist? From time to time, I see Part II on one of the other L&O shows (I forget which one) and it's frustrating, because L&O:TBJ is not shown in reruns, so you can't really get caught up on what's happened with the case up to that point. But I thought TBJ was a pretty good series, for what little of it aired. 

Yes it was. And I thought TBJ was a decent show as well, and I liked how they did a lot of crossovers in their brief 13 episode run, almost more than CI did in all 10 seasons. 

[WendyCR72]

Sort of surprised L&O: TBJ failed, since Bebe Neuwirth was so well known from Broadway and especially from Cheers, but TV is fickle. Makes me wonder, had that show survived, if it ever would have made its presence known on Criminal Intent or vice versa.

Probably not since, as pointed out, CI never seemed to get the crossover stuff the other "arms" of the franchise did.

On another note, WE is beginning S5 in late night early this morning, and it's still something to see Peter Scanavino play a killer since he has played Carisi on SVU as a white hat for years now. ("Diamond Dogs" is the second episode of three being shown.)

[peacheslatour]

Quote

Sort of surprised L&O: TBJ failed, since Bebe Neuwirth was so well known from Broadway and especially from Cheers, but TV is fickle.

I think it has a lot to do with time slot, night it's on and what it was up against. And you're right, tv is fickle. Maybe the whole zeitgeist was wrong.

[Xeliou66]

In the Wee Small Hours was on today and like I’ve said before I really love this 2 parter, it was CI at its best. A terrific case and I loved seeing both detective pairings work together in the case, it worked really well, plus Deakins and Carver had very large roles, which was always nice as they were frequently underused.

I loved seeing courtroom scenes, which we rarely saw on CI, it was awesome to see Carver in court and it was awesome to see Arthur Branch make a crossover appearance, as we’ve discussed before, CI didn’t crossover much, so it was great to see Carver and Branch interact, I liked Branch offering to promote Carver to Bureau Chief and the scene where Arthur tears up the original arrest warrant and replaces it with one with his signature was funny, I know that L&O fans are rather divided when it comes to Arthur, but I liked him, he had a colorful, charismatic personality. 

There were so many good scenes and lines in this episode - both detective pairings got good scenes and I especially liked seeing Logan and Goren work together, such as the scene where they provoked Ethan into assaulting them in his bedroom. 

The Garrett’s were despicable, all of them, I was glad they all went to prison.

Like I’ve said before, I like how the personal stuff that came up in the episode didn’t become soapy and remained limited, and like I’ve said before I thought Goren did a great job with judge “hot tub Harry” after he sent the guy to intimidate Goren’s mother, I thought Goren did a great job of keeping calm and then provoking Garrett into admitting he had sex with the victim. 

[peacheslatour]

Quote

Like I’ve said before, I like how the personal stuff that came up in the episode didn’t become soapy and remained limited, and like I’ve said before I thought Goren did a great job with judge “hot tub Harry” after he sent the guy to intimidate Goren’s mother, I thought Goren did a great job of keeping calm and then provoking Garrett into admitting he had sex with the victim.

The first time I saw it, I thought Bobby was going to come across that jerk's desk and throttle him. Well done, Det. Goren.

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, peacheslatour said:

The first time I saw it, I thought Bobby was going to come across that jerk's desk and throttle him. Well done, Det. Goren.

As I’ve said before, if I were in Bobby’s shoes, I don’t know if I could’ve restrained myself. Goren did a great job of not going apeshit on Judge Pervert and instead provoking him into incriminating himself. 

There were so many great scenes and lines in this episode, every character had good scenes. Another thing I liked the continuity of bringing back Connie the killer from Sound Bodies to be basically a jailhouse informant for them. 

And I really wish CI had gone into the courtroom more - Carver shined when he got stuff to do and it was great to see him in the courtroom and interacting with Branch, and they should’ve had more episodes that involved courtroom/legal stuff. 

[peacheslatour]

Quote

There were so many great scenes and lines in this episode, every character had good scenes. Another thing I liked the continuity of bringing back Connie the killer from Sound Bodies to be basically a jailhouse informant for them. 

I liked that too. That was really such a good episode. It had everything.

[Xeliou66]

5 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

I liked that too. That was really such a good episode. It had everything.

Yes I think In The Wee Small Hours could be the very best CI episode, it was so well done. 

[WendyCR72]

3 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

As I’ve said before, if I were in Bobby’s shoes, I don’t know if I could’ve restrained myself. Goren did a great job of not going apeshit on Judge Pervert and instead provoking him into incriminating himself. 

Yeah, if there was ever a time for Goren to be justified in losing his shit, having some goon go after his mentally-ill mother would be it. But I like, besides yelling [which he had every right to do] that Bobby kept his cool.

And I like that Alex knew Bobby well enough to try and stop things from escalating by calling Carver.

It's not real life, obviously, but if I were in Bobby's shoes and the facility that cared for my parent let some stranger in [to cause distress!] based on hearsay [friends with Bobby] and offering no proof, I'd sue the place into the ground.

Hey, that would have paid off his future debts [that Alex alluded to in "Frame" in S7!]!

2 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yes I think In The Wee Small Hours could be the very best CI episode, it was so well done. 

I just wish the episode was left as a single two-hour episode [as it was when it originally aired] instead of broken into two parts in syndication.

[Xeliou66]

28 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Yeah, if there was ever a time for Goren to be justified in losing his shit, having some goon go after his mentally-ill mother would be it. But I like, besides yelling [which he had every right to do] that Bobby kept his cool.

And I like that Alex knew Bobby well enough to try and stop things from escalating by calling Carver.

It's not real life, obviously, but if I were in Bobby's shoes and the facility that cared for my parent let some stranger in [to cause distress!] based on hearsay [friends with Bobby] and offering no proof, I'd sue the place into the ground.

Hey, that would have paid off his future debts [that Alex alluded to in "Frame" in S7!]!

I just wish the episode was left as a single two-hour episode [as it was when it originally aired] instead of broken into two parts in syndication.

Both parts are always shown back to back though, so it’s not like viewers don’t get to see both episodes when they air. I don’t really know what the difference would be if it was a 2 hour episode versus 2 1 hour episodes. 

Anyway I think it could be my favorite CI episode - such a good case and it was really awesome to see both detective pairings, plus Deakins and Carver, all working together to get to the bottom of it, a lot of great lines and scenes for the characters, plus the continuity with Connie and the crossover appearance from Branch really added to the episode. 

[ML89]

"There they go, Ocean's 2," was such a great line in a great ep.

Possible spoilers for upcoming L&O SVU -

Spoiler

Barek is back? Have we ever found out what happened to her since she left CI? Warren Leight posted pics of Mariska and Annabella Sciorra and said "Benson Barek love fest."

 

 

[WendyCR72]

9 hours ago, ML89 said:

"There they go, Ocean's 2," was such a great line in a great ep.

Possible spoilers for upcoming L&O SVU -

  Hide contents

Barek is back? Have we ever found out what happened to her since she left CI? Warren Leight posted pics of Mariska and Annabella Sciorra and said "Benson Barek love fest."

 

 

Interesting. Considering the personal issues Sciorra has had to face, I'm glad she is still acting. Makes me wonder what's up plot wise...

[peacheslatour]

12 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Interesting. Considering the personal issues Sciorra has had to face, I'm glad she is still acting. Makes me wonder what's up plot wise...

Care to elaborate?

[Jaded]

5 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

Care to elaborate?

Harvey Weinstein

[peacheslatour]

2 minutes ago, Jaded said:

Harvey Weinstein

Oh, Jesus. I hope they throw him in jail for the rest of his life.

[peacheslatour]

They just had Blind Spot on and when it got to near the end, where Bobby is talking to Jo about her dad, I actually had to get up and go into the other room with the better tv. To watch his face, to see him struggle with pain, revulsion, pity and professionalism is such an awe inspiring thing.

[roseha]

I haven't watched this show for awhile, but I noticed today that it's re-running on WOR Channel 9 in NYC.  I think they are on Season 3.    I'm going to have Tivo record some episodes.

Sorry to have missed In the Wee Small Hours.  I agree also, it's one of my favorite episodes.  As far as breaking up the 2 hour version goes, my problem with that is that they always seem to break it up exactly at the point where they've found the body in the marsh - exactly where you don't want it to stop.  Great episode though, I agree all the cast gets a chance to shine.

Some of my other favorites were from around that time - No Exit, one of the most depressing scenarios ever, but fascinating in that every character either is guilty, or (like the victim's parents) seem to look guilty of something, and a great courtroom scene with Carver.  I also really liked Vacancy, maybe not a popular opinion, but the ending when Goren says "this search for the truth  - it's not for the faint hearted" is one of my favorites.

I do wish that Carver had stayed on, or that they had at least brought him back for the Season 10 wrap up.  I think the show lost something when they dropped the DA role.  I do agree that Season 10 was a good finale though, with Goren and Eames more like their season 1-5 selves, with his insight and her sense of humor more like before.

Edited January 30, 2021 by roseha

[Xeliou66]

 

42 minutes ago, roseha said:

I haven't watched this show for awhile, but I noticed today that it's re-running on WOR Channel 9 in NYC.  I think they are on Season 3.    I'm going to have Tivo record some episodes.

Sorry to have missed In the Wee Small Hours.  I agree also, it's one of my favorite episodes.  As far as breaking up the 2 hour version goes, my problem with that is that they always seem to break it up exactly at the point where they've found the body in the marsh - exactly where you don't want it to stop.  Great episode though, I agree all the cast gets a chance to shine.

Some of my other favorites were from around that time - No Exit, one of the most depressing scenarios ever, but fascinating in that every character either is guilty, or (like the victim's parents) seem to look guilty of something, and a great courtroom scene with Carver.  I also really liked Vacancy, maybe not a popular opinion, but the ending when Goren says "this search for the truth  - it's not for the faint hearted" is one of my favorites.

I do wish that Carver had stayed on, or that they had at least brought him back for the Season 10 wrap up.  I think the show lost something when they dropped the DA role.  I do agree that Season 10 was a good finale though, with Goren and Eames more like their season 1-5 selves, with his insight and her sense of humor more like before.

When I saw In The Wee Small Hours the other day, the first part of it ended with the victim’s mom confronting Judge Garrett and his wife at their house, I’m pretty sure that’s when the episode ended, and part 2 started with them searching the marsh and finding Bethany’s body. 

It was a terrific episode, CI at its finest, a great, in depth plot but not too complicated to follow, plus giving everyone a chance to shine, plus having courtroom scenes and a crossover with the Mothership with Branch’s appearance. It was terrific in so many ways. 

I agree that the show really missed Carver when he left and they should never have dropped the legal stuff. 

I happen to like Vacancy as well, I know it’s not popular amongst a lot of CI fans but I like it for the most part - the cold open was creepy and memorable and the investigation into the killer was good and his backstory was interesting, but I didn’t really get at the end what gave them the proof needed to put the killer away. Maybe I need to rewatch the episode. 

No Exit on the other hand was just horrifically bleak and almost too depressing and dark - it wasn’t terrible but it’s somewhat hard to watch. 

 

[roseha]

2 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I happen to like Vacancy as well, I know it’s not popular amongst a lot of CI fans but I like it for the most part - the cold open was creepy and memorable and the investigation into the killer was good and his backstory was interesting, but I didn’t really get at the end what gave them the proof needed to put the killer away. Maybe I need to rewatch the episode. 

No Exit on the other hand was just horrifically bleak and almost too depressing and dark - it wasn’t terrible but it’s somewhat hard to watch. 

 

I think Goren just got the perp to confess in Vacancy, if I remember correctly. 

I can see why you feel that way about No Exit, it's certainly depressing, but I think it was one of the episodes that made me realize what superior television this show was at its best.  One hard hitting scene after another.

[WendyCR72]

3 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I happen to like Vacancy as well, I know it’s not popular amongst a lot of CI fans but I like it for the most part - the cold open was creepy and memorable and the investigation into the killer was good and his backstory was interesting, but I didn’t really get at the end what gave them the proof needed to put the killer away. Maybe I need to rewatch the episode. 

I don't hate Vacancy. I just hated whiny, shrieky Alice, played by Emily Bergl. And based on Eames' interactions with her, I think she felt exactly the same! LOL! (Because of Eames' needy and vicious drunken aunt, which she told Goren about!)

[Xeliou66]

11 hours ago, roseha said:

I think Goren just got the perp to confess in Vacancy, if I remember correctly. 

I can see why you feel that way about No Exit, it's certainly depressing, but I think it was one of the episodes that made me realize what superior television this show was at its best.  One hard hitting scene after another.

 

10 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

I don't hate Vacancy. I just hated whiny, shrieky Alice, played by Emily Bergl. And based on Eames' interactions with her, I think she felt exactly the same! LOL! (Because of Eames' needy and vicious drunken aunt, which she told Goren about!)

I would have to rewatch the ending of Vacancy to remember how exactly it closed out, but overall I liked the episode, like I say, the cold open was very creepy and the investigation was very good. I also hated Alice, she was whiny and extremely unlikable. 

No Exit on the other hand was just incredibly bleak, and the sight of the guy trapped in the back of the car as the train was approaching was horrific. No character was likable, and the plot was somewhat hard to follow. I just don’t care for the episode, it was almost too bleak even for me, it is arguably the darkest CI episode. 

[peacheslatour]

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

 

I would have to rewatch the ending of Vacancy to remember how exactly it closed out, but overall I liked the episode, like I say, the cold open was very creepy and the investigation was very good. I also hated Alice, she was whiny and extremely unlikable. 

No Exit on the other hand was just incredibly bleak, and the sight of the guy trapped in the back of the car as the train was approaching was horrific. No character was likable, and the plot was somewhat hard to follow. I just don’t care for the episode, it was almost too bleak even for me, it is arguably the darkest CI episode. 

If you hated her here, you would have absolutely loathed her in The Gilmore Girls. She was a horrible, evil, power hungry private school bitch. I wanted to smack her every time she was on.

[WendyCR72]

Still, as has been said before, Darrell Hammond, usually known for his comedy on SNL (and now its announcer since Don Pardo died!), played a very effective soulless sleaze of a boss in "No Exit". Surprised he wasn't targeted for death directly rather than Len's flunkie, Carmine Ruggerio.

[WendyCR72]

Watching "Please Note..." on WE late night as I type, and I always did wonder why Marla the Murderous Mommy didn't just off her Mother-in-Law from hell outright instead of killing those other parents, since the MIL was at the root of the murders.

But then, Marla didn't seem too tightly wrapped, so that may explain it...

[Xeliou66]

I watched Betrayed late last night, and while this is a really good episode, Ross was at his most obnoxious in it. God what a huge prick he was, he was condescending and rude to Goren and Eames the entire time and behaved like a complete ass from start to finish. I really couldn’t stand him, he’s probably my least favorite main character in the entire L&O universe. He did have blinders on the whole way and was a complete dick to his detectives throughout.

The case was very good and felt like a classic CI case even though it was obvious Kathy would be guilty, the investigation was in depth and good. 

One question I had about that episode - didn’t Kathy say that Woody had called her from the airport, but of course Woody was already dead at that time, so who did call Kathy from the airport? Surely someone had to because the detectives would’ve checked the phone records, but it didn’t appear Kathy had an accomplice? What am I missing, or is this a plot hole? 

I liked Chuck Schumer’s cameo as himself, it’s always cool when prominent people made cameos as themselves. 

[peacheslatour]

10 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

I watched Betrayed late last night, and while this is a really good episode, Ross was at his most obnoxious in it. God what a huge prick he was, he was condescending and rude to Goren and Eames the entire time and behaved like a complete ass from start to finish. I really couldn’t stand him, he’s probably my least favorite main character in the entire L&O universe. He did have blinders on the whole way and was a complete dick to his detectives throughout.

The case was very good and felt like a classic CI case even though it was obvious Kathy would be guilty, the investigation was in depth and good. 

One question I had about that episode - didn’t Kathy say that Woody had called her from the airport, but of course Woody was already dead at that time, so who did call Kathy from the airport? Surely someone had to because the detectives would’ve checked the phone records, but it didn’t appear Kathy had an accomplice? What am I missing, or is this a plot hole? 

I liked Chuck Schumer’s cameo as himself, it’s always cool when prominent people made cameos as themselves. 

And Eric Roberts is always the best evil creepy guy.

[basiltherat]

He and Kathy would've made a great Evil Couple That Conquers The World!

[Sigmagirl]

16 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Watching "Please Note..." on WE late night as I type, and I always did wonder why Marla the Murderous Mommy didn't just off her Mother-in-Law from hell outright instead of killing those other parents, since the MIL was at the root of the murders.

But then, Marla didn't seem too tightly wrapped, so that may explain it...

Good point. Then they could have had that nice big house all to themselves and eaten grits for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

I don’t like grits but geez, lady.

[WendyCR72]

13 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

One question I had about that episode - didn’t Kathy say that Woody had called her from the airport, but of course Woody was already dead at that time, so who did call Kathy from the airport? Surely someone had to because the detectives would’ve checked the phone records, but it didn’t appear Kathy had an accomplice? What am I missing, or is this a plot hole? 

All records show, I assume, are the time/location of calls, not who called. So maybe Kathy either used a pay phone and called her own cell (how retro! Unsure if pay phones were even still a thing in 2007/2008, when this was filmed!) or had a burner phone call her own cell?

If the callers are on the records? Not a damned clue. LOL!

Eric Roberts did play a great skeevy letch. Always get a kick out of the scene after he gets released from the NYPD/1PP and he smiles as he films the reporters he just said he was suing!

(And, as I said before, his appearance means VDO worked with both Roberts siblings, as he was in Mystic Pizza and also Dying Young with Julia Roberts.)

On another note, I like the symmetry of the episode title, "Betrayed", as it encompassed so many themes: Kathy betrayed Danny Ross, Avery Hubert betrayed Roy, Roy betrayed Avery with his first wife, Trina, and Eames still felt betrayed at the beginning by Bobby and Ross from the undercover stuff. Liked, as the case unfolded, how Goren/Eames also seemed to thaw. Eames may have been angry, but she also seemed to take Bobby's side against Ross' tirades when it mattered, and it seemed to help her get past her hurt.

Still LOL! at the scene where Trina gave Bobby and Alex the sex tape as Alex makes a face and holds it out to Bobby, who seems to take the tape as if it had cooties.  😛

[Xeliou66]

6 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

All records show, I assume, are the time/location of calls, not who called. So maybe Kathy either used a pay phone and called her own cell (how retro! Unsure if pay phones were even still a thing in 2007/2008, when this was filmed!) or had a burner phone call her own cell?

If the callers are on the records? Not a damned clue. LOL!

Eric Roberts did play a great skeevy letch. Always get a kick out of the scene after he gets released from the NYPD/1PP and he smiles as he films the reporters he just said he was suing!

(And, as I said before, his appearance means VDO worked with both Roberts siblings, as he was in Mystic Pizza and also Dying Young with Julia Roberts.)

On another note, I like the symmetry of the episode title, "Betrayed", as it encompassed so many themes: Kathy betrayed Danny Ross, Avery Hubert betrayed Roy, Roy betrayed Avery with his first wife, Trina, and Eames still felt betrayed at the beginning by Bobby and Ross from the undercover stuff. Liked, as the case unfolded, how Goren/Eames also seemed to thaw. Eames may have been angry, but she also seemed to take Bobby's side against Ross' tirades when it mattered, and it seemed to help her get past her hurt.

Still LOL! at the scene where Trina gave Bobby and Alex the sex tape as Alex makes a face and holds it out to Bobby, who seems to take the tape as if it had cooties.  😛

Yeah I’m just trying to figure out how Kathy managed that, I wonder if the records showed the duration of the call? Because if Kathy used another phone to call her own cell, how would she answer her own phone while calling from another? Because she said she spoke to Woody, which we know isn’t true, so if the duration of the call was recorded I have no idea how she would’ve been able to make it look like she had been on the phone for a couple of minutes if the phone just rang and no one answered? I don’t know but that part of the plot was a bit puzzling to me. 

But I do like the episode a lot - unlike a lot of season 6-7 episodes, it featured a complex, in depth plot with minimal soapy elements. And I agree that the title was good and makes a lot of sense.

I also like the scene with Roy being real smug with the reporters after he’s released. 

But Ross was such a huge prick that he detracted from almost every episode he was in, and he was at his worst in this one. Extremely rude to Goren and Eames throughout and had blinders on, and then what was with his attitude at the end, when he snapped at Goren when he tried to talk to him after Kathy’s arrest? He was such a douche.

[WendyCR72]

10 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

But Ross was such a huge prick that he detracted from almost every episode he was in, and he was at his worst in this one. Extremely rude to Goren and Eames throughout and had blinders on, and then what was with his attitude at the end, when he snapped at Goren when he tried to talk to him after Kathy’s arrest? He was such a douche.

You know I agree 100% here. He was AWFUL to Alex and Bobby. But I think he was even more of a douche to Rodgers! Here he was, with G/E at the morgue, all tortured about Kathy...and weren't Rodgers/Ross "dating" or whatever?

What an insensitive ass.

[Xeliou66]

21 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

You know I agree 100% here. He was AWFUL to Alex and Bobby. But I think he was even more of a douche to Rodgers! Here he was, with G/E at the morgue, all tortured about Kathy...and weren't Rodgers/Ross "dating" or whatever?

What an insensitive ass.

I have no idea what the status of the Rodgers/Ross relationship was at that time, that was confusing and as you know I absolutely HATED the hints that they were involved, but yeah his behavior at the morgue was rather insensitive. But he was an absolute dick to Goren and Eames, Goren in particular, constantly snapping at him and telling him he was out of line and then being rude to him at the end for no reason. Ross was truly awful. 

I hated how he got so many more scenes than any other captain, Deakins was so often underused and he was a really good character, unlike dickhead Ross. For example Ross frequently went to the morgue with the detectives, something that the other squad leaders never did, Deakins didn’t go to the morgue one time in his 5 seasons, but Ross went in numerous episodes. 

I truly think I hate Ross more than any other main character in the whole franchise - even more than Rollins on SVU and you know I loathe Rollins. At least she’s had a few good moments though - I can’t think of a single good moment Ross had. 

[WendyCR72]

2 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

I truly think I hate Ross more than any other main character in the whole franchise - even more than Rollins on SVU and you know I loathe Rollins. At least she’s had a few good moments though - I can’t think of a single good moment Ross had. 

Dying?  😛

[Xeliou66]

4 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Dying?  😛

LOL - I truly laughed out loud at that. I have to admit I felt nothing when he bit the dust, unlike when every other supposedly sympathetic character that we knew on the L&O franchise died. The guy was a rude, demeaning ass. And I didn’t get why everyone was so broken up about Ross dying - I can see Nichols being affected since he knew Ross for a long time, but Goren/Eames were real broken up, as was Rodgers, and it just didn’t ring true. I could definitely see them wanting to work the case, since he was their boss and all, but he was such a dick to them most of the time I didn’t get why they were so shaken. 

And my god - what a ridiculously complicated plot that was when Ross bit the dust. I’ve watched that 2 parter several times, and I still have very little clue as to what was going on. 

[WendyCR72]

23 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

LOL - I truly laughed out loud at that. I have to admit I felt nothing when he bit the dust, unlike when every other supposedly sympathetic character that we knew on the L&O franchise died. The guy was a rude, demeaning ass. And I didn’t get why everyone was so broken up about Ross dying - I can see Nichols being affected since he knew Ross for a long time, but Goren/Eames were real broken up, as was Rodgers, and it just didn’t ring true. I could definitely see them wanting to work the case, since he was their boss and all, but he was such a dick to them most of the time I didn’t get why they were so shaken. 

And my god - what a ridiculously complicated plot that was when Ross bit the dust. I’ve watched that 2 parter several times, and I still have very little clue as to what was going on. 

You know I'm no Ross fan, to say the least. But, as I said before, as loathe as I am to admit it, he did help Goren get reinstated on the force. (Even though Ross himself was the one to cause Goren to go undercover at Tates to begin with because Ross sent Goren's nephew back there...so, in my mind? Ross owed it to Goren there, anyway!)

And he did allow Eames to work on the murder of her husband's partner, which led to her investigating Joe's killer.

So I sort of understand their feelings, even if I, as a viewer, also agree that Ross was a douche more often than not.

Anyway, glad I gave you a laugh, too!

[Xeliou66]

I watched Lady’s Man today - I like this episode a lot, although it’s bizarre to see the actor who later played Barba on SVU play a creepy murderous ADA here. Goren was really good in this one, doing his usual tricks to get under Mulrooney’s skin, I particularly liked the scene where Goren acted almost drunk at the bar with Mulrooney. Also an interesting episode for Eames as it offered a glimpse into her past. And I loved that they mentioned Jack McCoy, that was nice continuity and as we’ve discussed CI wasn’t closely tied in to the Mothership often. 

But I have a few questions about the episode - namely why did Mulrooney wait 10 years to kill Boz if he was that obsessed over him, did he just snap one day or what? And did Mulrooney have multiple personalities? Is that why he dressed and posed as a woman as part of his scheme, and why he decided to cut off Boz’s genitals after he killed him? That part was unclear to me, I wonder if Mulrooney would plead insanity, because he was clearly unstable but I couldn’t tell what exactly was up with him.

[peacheslatour]

39 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

I watched Lady’s Man today - I like this episode a lot, although it’s bizarre to see the actor who later played Barba on SVU play a creepy murderous ADA here. Goren was really good in this one, doing his usual tricks to get under Mulrooney’s skin, I particularly liked the scene where Goren acted almost drunk at the bar with Mulrooney. Also an interesting episode for Eames as it offered a glimpse into her past. And I loved that they mentioned Jack McCoy, that was nice continuity and as we’ve discussed CI wasn’t closely tied in to the Mothership often. 

But I have a few questions about the episode - namely why did Mulrooney wait 10 years to kill Boz if he was that obsessed over him, did he just snap one day or what? And did Mulrooney have multiple personalities? Is that why he dressed and posed as a woman as part of his scheme, and why he decided to cut off Boz’s genitals after he killed him? That part was unclear to me, I wonder if Mulrooney would plead insanity, because he was clearly unstable but I couldn’t tell what exactly was up with him.

I loved it when Goren smacked him and handed Eames the keys to the handcuffs.

[WendyCR72]

3 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

I loved it when Goren smacked him and handed Eames the keys to the handcuffs.

Me, too!

Also loved when G/E were questioning that friend of Boz's who talked about almost cheating on his wife. As the guy is speaking to Eames, you see Goren sort of making faces and mocking him, but as the guy turns around to look at Goren, he tries to look serious. It was nice to see Bobby with a flash of humor again, even with the warped case. But then, it seemed that any case that involved helping Eames [Blind Spot, Lady's Man], Bobby seemed to come alive.

As for Mulrooney, I don't think he explicitly had dissociative identity disorder, but I do think he WAS unstable, as Goren told Eames. Since he went on about women being scared and wearing their expensive suits to cover it [as he told Goren in the bar], maybe he just wanted to create his idea of a "strong" woman to get the courage to commit murder.

I think he waited so long because, well...he was nuts. And maybe going years in realizing he was never going to get his career back, and maybe seeing Eames be successful with her promotion at Major Case, he had years to fume and stew until it all boiled over...

As I said, the only part about that episode that bugged me was Mulrooney in Eames' home, looking at her wedding photo, etc. Alex was NOT a stupid detective. But you mean to tell me she did not see anything out of place or smell perfume or whatnot? That was a big hole.