Last Man Standing - General Discussion

[Brian Cronin]

On 11/28/2018 at 2:05 AM, Aryanna said:

I loved Mandy. The old Mandy. The new Mandy isn't horrible and it's unfair for me to hate on her and compare her but I so loved the old Mandy. I loved her style and that she started her own fashion business. When the show first started I was afraid Mandy was just going to be the stock dumb character but she really wasn't and I grew to love her. She had a good story arc going. But I never did buy her and Kyle together. 

That's the problem with having a strong actress, when you're off the air for a year, you're bound to lose her. It does suck and I agree, new Mandy isn't bad or anything, she just doesn't compare well. 

So, Kyle and Mandy couldn't help decorate the tree because they were on the way out to see the Nutcracker.  We see them leave.Then we cut to later, the tree is still not decorated yet and Mandy and Kyle stop on the way out...to see the Nutcracker. Huh?

[readster]

6 hours ago, Brian Cronin said:

That's the problem with having a strong actress, when you're off the air for a year, you're bound to lose her. It does suck and I agree, new Mandy isn't bad or anything, she just doesn't compare well. 

So, Kyle and Mandy couldn't help decorate the tree because they were on the way out to see the Nutcracker.  We see them leave.Then we cut to later, the tree is still not decorated yet and Mandy and Kyle stop on the way out...to see the Nutcracker. Huh?

That's when things don't make sense. It goes back to a few years ago when everyone, BUT Kristin wanted to get things ready for Christmas. Eve and Mandy thought they were too old for it, Ryan was being a dumb ass again and dragged Kyle into his through process. Kristin puts up: The tree and gets things in the house together. Even tries rubbing it in everyone's faces. Then on Christmas Day, the tree just falls over for some reason. Originally it was that she put too many ornaments on one side of the tree. However, the tree is perfectly balanced and had been up for over a week and just falls to be a stupid joke. All the other characters do things that make no sense, they don't want to do Christmas because: "They are too old or don't believe in Jesus", yet they want presents and eat the food. Yeah, doesn't work that way. There is being anti-Christmas and then there is just not being into the entire "holiday spirit". Here, it's just that McCook can't be Mandy and she keeps trying to be Ephram and then when she tries to be her own version of it. It doesn't come off right.

[seacliffsal]

So, even though I knew it was coming, I still cried when Mike asked Ed to fill the personnel positions with veterans who had the required skills.  I like that the characters seem to be getting back into their roles and nuMandy seems to be more comfortable as well.

[Aryanna]

I loved when Mike said he wished Eve were there and right then the doorbell rang. And it was Chuck. Such a funny fakeout. 

[readster]

On 12/16/2018 at 11:21 PM, Aryanna said:

I loved when Mike said he wished Eve were there and right then the doorbell rang. And it was Chuck. Such a funny fakeout. 

Right it was a good fake out. I figure the show will most likely go another year since it's ratings have gone back to what they were on ABC. However, I can see Fox after everything with the Disney deal goes through saying: "Well, it was fun, but the ratings are starting to decline again, but we will give you a good wrap up this time." 

[galaxychaser]

I still miss the old Kristen . Now new Mandy?

i just don’t care for the show anymore.

[Aryanna]

On 12/30/2018 at 8:16 AM, readster said:

Right it was a good fake out. I figure the show will most likely go another year since it's ratings have gone back to what they were on ABC. However, I can see Fox after everything with the Disney deal goes through saying: "Well, it was fun, but the ratings are starting to decline again, but we will give you a good wrap up this time." 

Yeah with the 1 season layoff, a new Mandy and Eve only being a recurring character, it's just not the same. Not too surprising that ratings are suffering.

[readster]

On 1/3/2019 at 8:55 AM, Aryanna said:

Yeah with the 1 season layoff, a new Mandy and Eve only being a recurring character, it's just not the same. Not too surprising that ratings are suffering.

Right and having Mari Yu not return for another couple of episodes is going to make people go: "Who is this character again?" When she was being shown to be this "big replacement for old Mandy and Eve." We haven't seen her in almost five episodes and then she returns. Yeah, that's not how you market a new character and then don't even mention them at all. There has been  no prep for her character outside the initial episode. Plus, as many critics have said: "Oh look a new Cousin Oliver character, because that always works." 

 

Happy that they actually pointed out that Ryan and Mike arguing is just who they are. However, once again, Ryan had a horrible father, I mean he didn't want Ryan seeing his grandfather because they "spend to much time together". Yet, he would never spend time with Ryan and still no word on what the hell Ryan's mother is or does? The Ed story was funny, best with the NuMandy since the show started. Though, could we have any more pot shots at liberal vs conservative. I'm going to talk politics, but it has gotten so old.

[galaxychaser]

Kristen hasn’t aged nicely. Ryan’s hair is baaaad. They should have added an extra kid or 2 for Kristen and Ryan.

I know it’s mean, but wow. 

[readster]

The show is back after break. Seems not much has changed, I don't get why Ryan and Mike feel they "have to" take swipes at each other. I like that Ryan explains why he wants Mike to have a relationship with Boyd. Plus, admitting that Mike knows more about things like cars, fishing trips, ect than him. Especially, since Ryan doesn't even "try" to do things. I mean, for apparently being so well off, he couldn't afford to take his car into the shop? He couldn't go to Mike and say: "Hey you know Jay Leno who is an auto-mechanic, can he figure out why the check engine light is always coming on?" They want to write it that Ryan has learned to be a better person and dad, yet he can't get a clue on handling things. Even his entire idea behind the rug is: "Yeah, we get it, Ryan is a hippy, they all sew rugs." Yet, even he admits that Boyd needs to learn how to fix cars, go on big fishing trips. Instead of working it out with Mike, he decides to do things he knows is useless because he wants to show "he is not his father" eventually you have to move on. 

[Aryanna]

NuMandy's style is nowhere near as good as old Mandy's. Her outfits are not very cute. And since Mandy is supposed to be a designer that kinda matters.

Edited January 7, 2019 by Aryanna

[Suzysite]

Oh good, Cousin Oliver is finally here.    Because bringing in a spare kid ALWAYS improves a show's ratings.  

[readster]

On 1/12/2019 at 9:08 AM, Suzysite said:

Oh good, Cousin Oliver is finally here.    Because bringing in a spare kid ALWAYS improves a show's ratings.  

Plus, they made her a regular and isn't it amazing that someone who is a native from China all their life has no accent what's so ever? Ryan is trying to avoid taxes on the Bud shop? Oh yeah, Ryan that is going to not lead to you being audited and losing the business that you and Kristin FEEL needs to stay in business. I'm with Mike, just let the place go or sell it to someone who knows how to run a business. 

[readster]

Looks like they are going to move the show to a different Night. t. 

Last Man Standing Season 8 will move to a different night.

I do think it's interesting that they are saying that Fox is most likely going to renew it. Since they are talking about moving it to a different night. However, the ratings have returned to what they were back on ABC. The only good night would be Mondays since The Bachelor and DWTS doesn't get the ratings it once did. Any other night the show would be killed by other shows. Of course, maybe this is Fox's way of saying; "Hey, we brought it back, and we want to give it a decent send off unlike ABC, this is our excuse why we should end it. 

Molly McCook might leave the series.

Didn't know all the other actor were that involved in other projects. Sure, they film at different times and streamed series film back to back and then air. However, the only person who seems to have a regular empty schedule is Tim Allen and Nancy Travis show was renewed for another year and Orange is the new Black is airing it's finally season later this summer on Netflix. Hmmm...

Edited February 9, 2019 by readster

[FormerMod-a1]

So we have a new actress to play Carol.  That's a whole lot of cast changes.  This may have been previously know/posted, but if so I didn't remember.  

[SuprSuprElevated]

1 hour ago, aquarian1 said:

So we have a new actress to play Carol.  That's a whole lot of cast changes.  This may have been previously know/posted, but if so I didn't remember.  

Tisha Campbell was mentioned?

[SuprSuprElevated]

Just now, SuprSuprElevated said:

Tisha Campbell was mentioned?

I missed the episode.  

Spoiler

https://tvline.com/2019/02/15/last-man-standing-chuck-wife-carol-recast-tisha-campbell-video/

[FormerMod-a1]

I'm sure it's On Demand or otherwise available somewhere.  It was a double episode.

[SuprSuprElevated]

Just now, aquarian1 said:

I'm sure it's On Demand or otherwise available somewhere.  It was a double episode.

Yeah, I'll have to catch it later, thanks!

[readster]

15 hours ago, aquarian1 said:

So we have a new actress to play Carol.  That's a whole lot of cast changes.  This may have been previously know/posted, but if so I didn't remember.  

Sadly, Carol hasn't been in the picture for almost 2 years. Even Chuck saying how she moved out of state for a while. While the show wanted to basically try to have it's cake and eat it too. I think they wanted Chuck married again and do more than just insult Mike. Because you know, Joe insulting Chuck and vice versa was not enough. 

[FormerMod-a1]

53 minutes ago, readster said:

Sadly, Carol hasn't been in the picture for almost 2 years. Even Chuck saying how she moved out of state for a while.

Right?  When they started mentioning renewing vows I was like "Is Carol even living here?"  and then "I didn't think they got Erika Alexander back" then wondered if it would happen off-screen and then boom! different actress.  Like I said, I hadn't paid attention to news of the show much, so I wasn't expecting that. 

55 minutes ago, readster said:

I think they wanted Chuck married again and do more than just insult Mike. Because you know, Joe insulting Chuck and vice versa was not enough. 

And hopefully give more for Vanessa, too.  It's just... a lot of cast changes, although I don't mind the Boyd change.  I probably wouldn't have even noticed since I don't pay attention to that character so much and he's not in every episode.  

[readster]

4 hours ago, aquarian1 said:

Right?  When they started mentioning renewing vows I was like "Is Carol even living here?"  and then "I didn't think they got Erika Alexander back" then wondered if it would happen off-screen and then boom! different actress.  Like I said, I hadn't paid attention to news of the show much, so I wasn't expecting that. 

And hopefully give more for Vanessa, too.  It's just... a lot of cast changes, although I don't mind the Boyd change.  I probably wouldn't have even noticed since I don't pay attention to that character so much and he's not in every episode.  

Right and I'm wondering if they want to try and "renew" the Vanessa/Carol friendship with less Vanessa trying to sound "politically correct". Because since the show has been back you either have Vanessa yelling at someone or just there. More focus has been trying to make "new Mandy" work or bring in the new cousin Oliver for Vanessa.

[Aryanna]

Does it bug anyone else that the only reason Kristin has her job is because of her dad? She runs a little restaurant inside her dad's store. But she acts like she's achieved so much and has done it on her own. It shouldn't but it just bothers me.

[Katy M]

15 minutes ago, Aryanna said:

Does it bug anyone else that the only reason Kristin has her job is because of her dad? She runs a little restaurant inside her dad's store. But she acts like she's achieved so much and has done it on her own. It shouldn't but it just bothers me.

Not really. Her dad may have got her that job, but she had previous restaurant management experience, and they pretty much leave her on her own to run the grill the way she wants to.  Or, at least they did.  I haven't been watching this season.  I remember a line from some other show years and years ago where someone got a job based on nepotism, but he didn't realize that until he was already there.  Someone told him "it's not how you get the job, it's what you do with it."

[Aryanna]

Yeah, she was a waitress in that greasy spoon for a couple of seasons.

[Katy M]

6 hours ago, Aryanna said:

Yeah, she was a waitress in that greasy spoon for a couple of seasons.

No, after that, she managed that restaurant that Jonathan Taylor Thomas owned.

[readster]

15 hours ago, Katy M said:

No, after that, she managed that restaurant that Jonathan Taylor Thomas owned.

Yes and then Mike brought up the old plans for a restaurant and Kristin was all: "Hey, I could do that." Ed hated it because he didn't want "fat people" coming into the store. I do agree, it's not how you "get the job" it's how you handle it. However, yes, Kristin has a very: "I know everything and I'm the best" attitude. Just like Ryan is all: "Money bad, religion is bad, politics bad. Yet, my reason for it all is because my dad was an asshole and I got my girlfriend pregnant in high school." 

[Aryanna]

On 2/20/2019 at 6:12 AM, Katy M said:

No, after that, she managed that restaurant that Jonathan Taylor Thomas owned.

She did have that job for a minute. But didn't she also get that because she was old friends with JTT?

I don't know. It just irritates me that the character acts like she did it all on her own but she went from being a waitress to management based on her relationship to successful people instead of actual ability or merit.

[Katy M]

9 minutes ago, Aryanna said:

She did have that job for a minute. But didn't she also get that because she was old friends with JTT?

She actually had worked with him at the other restaurant.  That's how a lot of people get jobs.  People remember them from prior jobs.   I got two interviews when I wasn't even job searching because two former co-workers who had moved on remembered me and thought I would do a good job at their new place of employment.

[readster]

2 minutes ago, Katy M said:

She actually had worked with him at the other restaurant.  That's how a lot of people get jobs.  People remember them from prior jobs.   I got two interviews when I wasn't even job searching because two former co-workers who had moved on remembered me and thought I would do a good job at their new place of employment.

Right and even why she left the diner was because she finally realized her manager had been BSing her on why he didn't give her a pay raise or better hours. Sadly, Kristin was turn into: "I'm the best" when she became the manager at the OMD restaurant but given how Mike has to "always be right" you wonder why. 

[Aryanna]

13 minutes ago, Katy M said:

She actually had worked with him at the other restaurant.  That's how a lot of people get jobs.  People remember them from prior jobs.   I got two interviews when I wasn't even job searching because two former co-workers who had moved on remembered me and thought I would do a good job at their new place of employment.

Right, those people saw that you had the capability to do a good job. But just because someone can carry food from a kitchen to a table without messing the order up too bad doesn't mean that they would be good at managing people, good at finances, good at taxes and all the other things that go into the business side of a restaurant. That would be like Mike pulling one of the cashiers at ODM and making them manager of the store or the company.

Edited February 21, 2019 by Aryanna

[Katy M]

3 minutes ago, Aryanna said:

Right, those people saw that you had the capability to do a good job. But just because someone can carry food from a kitchen to a table without messing the order up too bad doesn't mean that they would be good at managing people, good at finances, good at taxes and all the other things that go into the business side of a restaurant. That would be like Mike pulling one of the cashiers at ODM and making them manager of the store or the company.

Didn't she start out as a waitress and he promoted her to manager?  Either way, I don't really care.  She probably did her jobs comptetently and that's all that really matters.  Funny story.  At the aforementioned job that I had, they promoted me to supervisor in another department and I completely sucked at it. So, yes, I agree you can be good at one thing and that does not mean that you are good at managing people.  But, people get jobs in all kinds of ways due to all kinds of connections.

[readster]

2 hours ago, Katy M said:

Didn't she start out as a waitress and he promoted her to manager?  Either way, I don't really care.  She probably did her jobs competently and that's all that really matters.  Funny story.  At the aforementioned job that I had, they promoted me to supervisor in another department and I completely sucked at it. So, yes, I agree you can be good at one thing and that does not mean that you are good at managing people.  But, people get jobs in all kinds of ways due to all kinds of connections.

Yeah and I had the opposite, I was passed over for a promotion way back when and the person they gave it to, turned into "I'm the boss, you all suck." Yet I ended up the main trainer and crew leader and everyone I trained was given top reviews by the mangers, but her. She constantly had to strut around like she was the greatest thing. I ended up getting fed up and quit and all of a sudden, she wasn't looking so hot as people were quitting left and right even telling the district manager they couldn't stand working with her. She was going to be demoted and she walked into the main office (an hour away) and said: "Yeah, I quit, it's been fun." The only reason she got recommended was because she was constantly doing her job as a regular crew leader and once she was put in as an assistant manager, it was: "I'm the boss, suck it!" 

  Back to the show with Kris, yes they showed early on she did do her jobs right and was good at it. However, when they made her the manager, it was: "I know everything... wait can someone help me with this!" It was like with Ryan, constantly complained about the world was wrong and everyone told him to use his teaching degree but it was: "I can't work for 'the man'." Then when Vanessa hired him for her tutorial business, he was actually doing a good job. Then they turn around and have him take over the Pot Shop and he is: "I'm going to run this place since it was important to Kristin. Wait, I have to do books, and pay taxes and a lease? What the hell?" Seriously, I love it if the shop does close. Yes, it will make Mike happy since he hates anything pot related, but also the fact his son in law can't keep a job because he rather complain than say: "I'm too old to be acting like this, I need to suck it up!" 

[Aryanna]

Have you guys noticed that Mandy's storyline of being a designer has taken a backseat? It's not so prominent this year. And I liked that for Mandy. It was actually interesting and I could someone like Mandy having a natural talent for that but having to learn the business side from her dad.

Edited February 21, 2019 by Aryanna

[readster]

On 2/21/2019 at 3:39 PM, Aryanna said:

Have you guys noticed that Mandy's storyline of being a designer has taken a backseat? It's not so prominent this year. And I liked that for Mandy. It was actually interesting and I could someone like Mandy having a natural talent for that but having to learn the business side from her dad.

They had Mandy wanting to be a real estate agent a few episodes back because her clothes got a bad review. Or Vanessa was pestering her at the beginning of the season to have a baby with Kyle. Which is what lead to "Cousin Oliver" from China coming to the show. Vanessa misses kids in the house, like real kids and feels Boyd is getting too old now. Which yeah, a 17 (24) foreign exchange student is going to fix that. 

[seacliffsal]

In my opinion, the major problem with the foreign exchange student is that they are trying to turn her into Eve and they have made her interactions with Vanessa feel way too familiar.  I would think that a guest student would never speak to their host mother the way that she did in this recent episode.  I get that they want a character in the house to interact with the other characters, especially Vanessa, but it should be someone who is entitled to this level of familiarity, not a stranger who is in the home as a guest for a year.  I hope that they send her back to Hong Kong next season and figure out another way to make this work.  Although morbid, maybe they kill off Kristin and Ryan so that Boyd can move back in.  

[readster]

On 2/24/2019 at 12:28 PM, seacliffsal said:

In my opinion, the major problem with the foreign exchange student is that they are trying to turn her into Eve and they have made her interactions with Vanessa feel way too familiar.  I would think that a guest student would never speak to their host mother the way that she did in this recent episode.  I get that they want a character in the house to interact with the other characters, especially Vanessa, but it should be someone who is entitled to this level of familiarity, not a stranger who is in the home as a guest for a year.  I hope that they send her back to Hong Kong next season and figure out another way to make this work.  Although morbid, maybe they kill off Kristin and Ryan so that Boyd can move back in.  

Another thing is, they brought back Chuck's wife with a completely different actress. Everyone thought it was to give Vanessa a friend again. Like you said, they are trying to turn the exchange student into Eve. It is Eve, but Asian. It's like: "Yeah, writers, maybe you need to admit, you can't write other characters." 

  The write is on the wall, they are trying to turn it into a new show, but keep saying: "No, really it's LMS." "No ratings, don't go back to what they were two years ago, we need to prove we are good writers." The show is a real former shadow of itself. 

[Aryanna]

10 hours ago, readster said:

Another thing is, they brought back Chuck's wife with a completely different actress. Everyone thought it was to give Vanessa a friend again. Like you said, they are trying to turn the exchange student into Eve. It is Eve, but Asian. It's like: "Yeah, writers, maybe you need to admit, you can't write other characters." 

  The write is on the wall, they are trying to turn it into a new show, but keep saying: "No, really it's LMS." "No ratings, don't go back to what they were two years ago, we need to prove we are good writers." The show is a real former shadow of itself. 

The cancellation from ABC and the year off really hurt LMS. In the year that it was off the air, some of the actors moved on to something else. I looked at imdb though and don't see what's keeping Molly Ephraim from being on the show. Her last credit was for a movie released in November 2018. I guess Amanda Fuller didn't have anything else going on but Kristin is my least favorite of the sisters and I liked her better when she was played by the girl in season 1.

[Katy M]

40 minutes ago, Aryanna said:

don't see what's keeping Molly Ephraim from being on the show.

I think I read somewhere it was about politics. 

[Aryanna]

1 minute ago, Katy M said:

I think I read somewhere it was about politics. 

Well that's too bad. I loved her in that role.

[Katy M]

1 minute ago, Aryanna said:

Well that's too bad. I loved her in that role.

I think they should have just let the show die.  With Eve off to college and Mandy married to Kyle and getting ready to move out, it was a good natural stopping point.  Sure, it would have been nice for ABC to let them know so they could have had a better finale.  Or, maybe let them do a made-for-TV move wrap up in the fall. But, I only watched the first epi after the switch and it was just ugh.  Kristen was always the most bland of the three sisters, IMO.  Wouldn't say I hated her or anything, but she couldn't carry the show.  Eve and Kyle were my fave characters and with Eve on a part-time basis, a new Mandy and doubling down on the politics, just no.

[Aryanna]

13 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I think they should have just let the show die.  With Eve off to college and Mandy married to Kyle and getting ready to move out, it was a good natural stopping point.  Sure, it would have been nice for ABC to let them know so they could have had a better finale.  Or, maybe let them do a made-for-TV move wrap up in the fall. But, I only watched the first epi after the switch and it was just ugh.  Kristen was always the most bland of the three sisters, IMO.  Wouldn't say I hated her or anything, but she couldn't carry the show.  Eve and Kyle were my fave characters and with Eve on a part-time basis, a new Mandy and doubling down on the politics, just no.

It would've been nice if ABC had just left it alone and let it come to its own natural conclusion instead of canceling it. It still had really good ratings.

[Katy M]

8 minutes ago, Aryanna said:

It would've been nice if ABC had just left it alone and let it come to its own natural conclusion instead of canceling it. It still had really good ratings.

I don't think the last season was as strong as previous seasons.  And I think it was getting stale trying to artificially manipulate things to stay the same.  Eve should have gone to college, instead of becoming a bum for a year because she didn't get into West Point. Mandy and Kyle should have found their own place to live.   Like I said, it was at a good natural ending point.  Family shows have a shelf life.

[readster]

7 hours ago, Katy M said:

I don't think the last season was as strong as previous seasons.  And I think it was getting stale trying to artificially manipulate things to stay the same.  Eve should have gone to college, instead of becoming a bum for a year because she didn't get into West Point. Mandy and Kyle should have found their own place to live.   Like I said, it was at a good natural ending point.  Family shows have a shelf life.

Yes, it was so bad in the last season on ABC. The writers just didn't know what to do with Eve and the final episode was so half assed you just wonder what was going on. Really, ABC should have said: "You know what, ratings are down, it's getting expensive, the politics are out of control. Let's just give you one more season, wrap this all up and let's all move on with their lives. Instead you got all this piece and as the old saying goes for those who wanted the show back no matter what. "Be careful what you wish for." 

[ketose]

This show is Tim Allen's last stand. Whenever ABC ended the show he would have called it a cancellation. Ironically, it would have been better if ABC kept it and never did the Roseanne reboot. The show is still posting good enough ratings, especially for FOX.

I think the later season(s) of the show will definitely mark a change in overall quality. The only original actors on the show are playing Mike, Vanessa and Ed. Eve is gone most of the time and Chuck came on in season 2, along with new Kristin and new Ryan. I think Tim Allen sees this as a vehicle for him and the kind of sitcom (where the Dad is right) he wants to do. Fox is okay with that because the show does well.

[SuprSuprElevated]

Hubs and I are fans of the show, but we both agreed that last night's (3/1/19) show was awful.  While I don't necessarily think that the musical chairs of actors is a show killer, it doesn't help, and to me, the quality of writing is just down.  I don't follow the backstage stuff like some of you do, did the show get a new writing team too?

[readster]

12 hours ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

Hubs and I are fans of the show, but we both agreed that last night's (3/1/19) show was awful.  While I don't necessarily think that the musical chairs of actors is a show killer, it doesn't help, and to me, the quality of writing is just down.  I don't follow the backstage stuff like some of you do, did the show get a new writing team too?

The show has been on 7 years, they don't have to remind the audience EVERY season that Kristin had Boyd right out of high school.The story line was a retread once again about how Kristin or Ryan over react to things. Not that they didn't have the same issues from their own parents, but still. The show is just not there anymore.

[ketose]

1 hour ago, readster said:

The show has been on 7 years, they don't have to remind the audience EVERY season that Kristin had Boyd right out of high school.The story line was a retread once again about how Kristin or Ryan over react to things. Not that they didn't have the same issues from their own parents, but still. The show is just not there anymore.

This show is heading into Reba territory. The cast is getting loo large, people who want to leave are being kept on in diminished roles and actors are just aging out of their characters. What's worse in LMS is that Mike is exactly the same and Vanessa keeps changing to the point where's she's essentially pointless now. The show isn't really bad, but it's relying on the sitcom formula more than ever.

[readster]

4 hours ago, ketose said:

This show is heading into Reba territory. The cast is getting loo large, people who want to leave are being kept on in diminished roles and actors are just aging out of their characters. What's worse in LMS is that Mike is exactly the same and Vanessa keeps changing to the point where's she's essentially pointless now. The show isn't really bad, but it's relying on the sitcom formula more than ever.

It's like with "Cousin Oliver" They made her Eve, but supportive of Vanessa to gang up on Mike. People got tired of Mike and Eve ganging on up on Vanessa all the time. Reversing it hasn't do anything "new" it just shows it's repeating old stories. They have now turned Vanessa into an empty nester wanting kids around all the time. Now, with Kristin: "Boyd's getting too old now, and doesn't want to hang around me." Hey, Kristin, you and Ryan were still at a good age and so forth, you could of, you know HAD ANOTHER KID by now. Don't go complaining now you feel old because your pre-teen doesn't want to do things that HE KNOWS you don't like or do. Same goes for holding onto the Bud Shop, just sell the place off and take the money. Because let's face it, it's going to just take one thing Ryan doesn't like and he'll get bored and move on.

[SuprSuprElevated]

I missed the episodes where this Cousin Oliver was introduced...this is the Chinese exchange student?  I don't understand the point, and it does not seem like a natural thing for that family.  Plus, the actress' portrayal is nothing but annoying imo.

Also - The character of Vanessa could perish because she pumped kerosene into her gas tank by mistake, and the show would be, at worst, better off.

Edited March 3, 2019 by SuprSuprElevated
No need to correct me if in fact kerosene wouldn't cause an internal combustion engine to blow her to smithereens. I, unlike Vanessa, do not have a science Doctorate or PHD or whatever it is we're supposed to believe that daft woman possesses.