Hoarders - General Discussion

[JudyObscure]

8 hours ago, Elizzikra said:

I have no idea how many times a day I have to go to the bathroom

Me either, so I'm counting today to find out.

I drink a lot of coffee.

[Elizzikra]

On 1/11/2024 at 5:50 AM, JudyObscure said:

Me either, so I'm counting today to find out.

I drink a lot of coffee.

I keep meaning to count, just out of curiosity, but then I forget. Ah well. I guess I will just have to wonder.
 

Anyone watching Bob in St. Louis now? That was a cool house at some point in the (undoubtedly distant) past. Dr. Z. needs to get a better hair colorist before her long locks fall out completely. 

[LGraves65]

Bob 👀

[Elizzikra]

6 minutes ago, LGraves65 said:

Bob 👀

He's kind of breaking my heart...

[FormerMod-a1]

Matt!

[CrazyInAlabama]

New episode, "Bob". He's from St. Lousi Missouri.   What a lovely, historic Victorian house.    He says he loves being a hoarder. He did lovely portraits of himself and others.  He collects antiques, artwork, and all kinds of items that look valuable. Antique textiles.  The kitchen is a mound of garbage.    He bought the 6200 sq ft mansion in 1971, for $4,000.  House was restored by Bob, and now he's trashing it.  He wants to turn the house into a museum, with help from Daulton and Ken.

The poor helpers that have been conned into helping with filming: Ceil, his best friend.   She's 91.    Ken is Bob's young friend.  Ken's husband Daulton is going to help turn the house into a museum too.  

Bob was a commercial artist for years.   He also freelanced for Playboy, and other magazines, and celebrity clients, such as Vincent Price. 

I'm terrified for Bob's safety, Ken is on national TV talking about how valuable the collections inside the house are.   Ken says the goal is to turn the house into a museum.  Ken strikes again, telling that Bob's collection of his own paintings is worth $2.8 millon.   Bob had family issues because he's gay, and hasn't had contact with his bio family in decades. .   

In 1970 he met John, who stole from him, tried to kill him (John was on drugs and alcohol), and gave him AIDs. John died years ago.  Bob's health is declining, and he now has lung cancer.   I feel so awful for Bob. He says John isn't the only person who took advantage of him. 

Cleanout specialist is Matt Paxton, with Steri-Clean crews. Psychologist is Dr. Zasio (aka Tonya Hoarding). 

The helpers are: Ceil, the 91 year old friend, Angela (Ceil's caretaker) friends Ken, and his husband Daulton.

Day One- Matt wants to do the front yard, foyer/hall and kitchen today.  Poor Daulton and Ken get to see the kitchen when it's down to a foot deep in trash, that's been there for many years.  Ken and Daulton are Bob's medical guardians, to assist him with medical care.   Ken can't take the stench in the kitchen, and I'm just glad this show doesn't have Smell-O-Vision.    Poor Daulton stays in the kitchen with Matt, and it's horrific. 

Day Two-My heart is breaking for Bob, and his friends.  Two full dumpsters from the kitchen and yard on day one.  Day Two-basement has paintings, but a lot of junk. Bob just wants to move stuff from the living room, to other rooms. The auction people from Freeman's Aucton House,  are supposed to come and gather items for sale. 90% of the art is Bob's own work.  Bob is now revolting about doing the clean up. The plan is now to haul everything from the first floor outside, unfortunately Bob plans to keep it all. Matt will send photos of items in the house to Freeman's, and has three other auction houses for smaller items. The other auction houses will take entire rooms of contents and sell. 

Day Three-Ken can only sell abstracts.   They have a little party for Bob's birthday, he's 87.  Why is Dr. Z wearing a white lace dress in the hoard?  The paintings are going to sale (abstracts only), and all other paintings are going to a safe storage. I love Ken and Daulton.  Poor Matt has an eye infection from the ammonia in the house.  Bob agrees to aftercare.  He also wants to keep a chair that's a rat's nest.  Bob keeps arguing to keep almost all of the furniture. 

Day Four, final day-Bob wants a bedroom for himself.  So, they'll clean the huge bathroom and put a bed in there. The kitchen, bedroom/bath, living room, music room,  stairs, dining, foyer, are clean and decorated.   You can see the amazing artwork on the walls and ceilings now.  They hauled 4 tons of trash from the first floor and basement. Put the paintings to storage, frames to the basement, items for sale in the basement.   Bob actually has a bed (I think I have the same quilt as Bob's).  

Epilogue-Bob still wants his house museum, he's not cleaning out anything, Bob and Ken are no longer friends, and Bob isn't doing aftercare.   

Here's a link to the house site, with the history of Bob and his family history, the house, and the restoration:

http://www.dielmannkaiserhouse.org/index.html

 

Edited January 18 by CrazyInAlabama

[Elizzikra]

Bob is an incredible artist. I feel so sorry for him. He's had a hard life and living in that mess is only going to make his lung issues worse. 

Did anyone else wonder about the cat(s)? Everything was covered in cat pee. There were thousands of empty cat food cans. But no mention, ever, of a cat. Then at the end, two stuffed white cats on the living room sofa. Please tell me they were stuffed animal cats and not Bob's former pets, taxidermied. 

[FormerMod-a1]

I was trying to figure this house out.  In overhead shots it looked like it was next to a warehouse or something, and really close to it.  Was that also part of the property?  This house also literally stood out as taller than anything around it, and looked like nothing else.  

[JudyObscure]

I hate my house now.

I also hate that Bob's incredibly beautiful house still looks cluttered in it's best rooms. 

If Ken and Bob are no longer friends I must blame Bob.  Bob is a sweetie, but often unreasonable.  Ken and the silent Daulton probably carried a hundred loads down two flights, organized and then carried most of it back up, and then Bob saw them throwing out a cat urine soaked embroidered tea towel and got yelled at.

Good episode!  Interesting hoard.  My father was an artist and left a lot of paintings but not a tenth of Bob's.  Where did he ever find the time to do all that?

[LGraves65]

11 hours ago, aquarian1 said:

I was trying to figure this house out.  In overhead shots it looked like it was next to a warehouse or something, and really close to it.  Was that also part of the property?  This house also literally stood out as taller than anything around it, and looked like nothing else.  

The older areas of STL are like that.  Gorgeous old homes next to industrial areas.

[CrazyInAlabama]

On the Reddit thread about this show, there is a very suspicious link to an "obituary" for Bob.  It's probably fake, nothing is online except this, and it says "indianha", he lives in St Louis MO, and Indiana is misspelled.  I think it's a phony clickbait article.   

On reddit there's an AMA with Ken.  He's no longer part of the foundation, but was still taking Bob to appointments.  He says Bob isn't doing aftercare, and is now alienated from him.   Bob was talking about suing for the items that were trashed.   Ken and his husband moved to Chicago, but says he's heard Bob is alive and doing as well as can be expected. 

Ken says the reason they picked that huge bathroom for Bob's bed is it's the only functioning bathroom in the house, and has a door right onto the veranda as a fire escape.   The staircase leading to that part of the house is wide, so suitable for a chair lift.   The intention was to clean a bedroom across the hall out, but Bob never cleaned anything else. 

Edited January 18 by CrazyInAlabama

[AZChristian]

One Facebook page says that Bob started to blame Ken for all of the items that were removed, and Ken had to walk away.

People with mental illness can be like that.  Even though Ken was trying to act to HELP Bob, Bob only wanted the help he, himself, had agreed to.

Great to see Matt; he knows it's not his job to delve deeply into why a hoarder hoards.  He just lays out the facts of the challenge of cleaning up if nothing can be tossed or donated.  He let the psychologist do her job, and he did his.  

[Claire85]

12 hours ago, Elizzikra said:

Bob is an incredible artist. I feel so sorry for him. He's had a hard life and living in that mess is only going to make his lung issues worse. 

Did anyone else wonder about the cat(s)? Everything was covered in cat pee. There were thousands of empty cat food cans. But no mention, ever, of a cat. Then at the end, two stuffed white cats on the living room sofa. Please tell me they were stuffed animal cats and not Bob's former pets, taxidermied. 

At the beginning we did see a (live) black cat on the kitchen counter, so he has at least one. 

[Schnickelfritz]

Bob's house has a website. Looks to be from one of his earlier attempts to make it a museum. You can see what it looked like when first restored before the hoarding took over. I hope that it can be saved someday.

http://www.dielmannkaiserhouse.com/

[pezgirl7]

I thought Bob’s art was amazing. It’s too bad that he only wanted to sell the abstract pieces. I think selling more of them could increase the popularity of his art and allow more people to see them. It would also be nice if he could have exhibits throughout the country, but I don’t know how you would even go about doing that. I googled his art, hoping to find some pictures, but only came across one on an auction site.

Although some of the cleaned rooms still looked a bit cluttered, they were a big improvement. But there’s no way I would sit on any of that furniture. It’s shows like this that make me wary of buying anything secondhand. 

Regarding the commercial buildings around the house, looking at the older photos on the website, I think it was built similar to a row house. There used to be buildings touching the house, so the only windows on the sides of the building are closer to the back. Seems like it’s the only building from that time period still standing, which makes it look really out of place. 

Due to the location, I worry about the future of the house once Bob passes. Old homes are expensive to care for. 

[Elizzikra]

Quote

Due to the location, I worry about the future of the house once Bob passes. Old homes are expensive to care for. 

I was surprised there wasn't more damage but maybe they didn't get far enough cleaning to see it? Usually these hoarded homes have rotten floors, water damage, etc. I can only imagine how the weight of all that stuff must have pulled the foundation of that house.

[CrazyInAlabama]

On the other board posting by Ken, he said that an engineer checked out the third floor before it got full of junk, and said the house structure was safe and secure.  The house does need tuck pointing (where they restore some mortar if I screwed the name up) and if it's ever cleaned out, needs plumbing and other work.   

[enoughcats]

You could see the plumbing solution in the raised floor under the bathroom part of the bathroom / bedroom.  They didn't want to get into the filth that could be between the floors.

I know a few people who worked in a 'historic' St. Louis neighborhood, and rough and intimidating were among the adjectives applied.  That the house has no parking (muck less secure parking) means the museum will fail.  

Cynic that I am, I will note that there aren't a lot of assorted activities near that house.  Translate: nobody stole the stuff that was temporarily stored in the front yard.

And I felt very sorry for Matt getting an eye infection. OTOH they may have been lucky that Hanta virus hadn't gotten to that part of the country yet.

I sort of wish Matt had asked Dr. Z if she still had the pet rat she adopted several years ago.

[Elizzikra]

Quote

You could see the plumbing solution in the raised floor under the bathroom part of the bathroom / bedroom.  They didn't want to get into the filth that could be between the floors.

I actually didn’t know what that raised flooring was - why was it like that?

Quote

I sort of wish Matt had asked Dr. Z if she still had the pet rat she adopted several years ago.

I remember that! But that’s been five or six years at least, yes? How long do pet rats live?

[enoughcats]

Quote

How long do pet rats live?

Dr. Z would know!

about the bathroom floor.  To have a working bathroom, the plumbing would have to be replumbed so as not to leak on the nice things on the floor below. They couldn't depend on 120 year old pipes.  Hot and cold water lines could be laid along the walls but Bob is way too old to be expected to step over drain pipes exposed on the floor. So, lay the drain pipes and build a floor over them.  And make it look handsome. 

[CrazyInAlabama]

New episode "John".  Monday 22 January. 

from the show site:    The experts help John get his hoarding impulses under control as they address the motivations behind his dumpster diving, weekly swap meets and yard sale visits that contribute to the massive amount of clutter on his property.

He's from: San Diego, CA 

He was born in the house, lived there until he was 17.  Then, he bought the house from his parents.  

Cleaner and Organizer: Carolina Harvey  , Psychologist Dr Robin Zasio (for once she's dressed appropriately for going into a hoard) . Steri-Clean is the cleaning service. 

Friend John talks about knowing John for his whole life. .  Another friend Jessica, she says he actually made a profit off of reselling.  Mary Rose is his daughter, says house was livable until she was eight, then the hoarding increased until now.  John's wife was an addict, and John was dumpster diving for money.   John and wife divorced because of her addiction.

  Mary Rose and her brother were taken away from the mother because of her addictions.  The children wanted out, and the court took the kids away from John and his hoard, and gave custody to a family friend.  John says he cleared one room for his daughter during Covid.  (Earlier Mary Rose said something about a brother, but John said 'daughters' during the cleared bedroom scenes.  

John wanted help, and for a year he's been seeing Dr. Tina Mays for therapy for his hoarding.   10 months before this code enforcement came by.  They said he has to clean up or the city will clean up and they will put a lien on the house to pay for clean up.    

John and his girlfriend, Andi,  have an on- and off-again relationship, but she's going to help with the clean up.   This is the first time in six years Andi had been in the house. 

Dr. Z is impressed that he's ready to clean up.  I'm hopeful that he will clean up.  I want this to be another success story.  

I don't like that Carolina is the organizer on this.  

Day One-Friends Professor John, Andi, and Charlie will help, daughter's coming to help later.  He wants to keep 25%. Zasio says 80 to 85% is more realistic.    Carolina the organizer says start in the back yard. I would start in the front yard then clear it out and move to the back.   He started out well, but is now talking about dumpster diving again. 

When Mary Rose (daughter) arrives, Carolina wants 3 teams, with everyone making decisions. John is actually thanking the workers, how refreshing.  They didn't even clear half of the yard.  

Day Two- The therapist comes out to help John.  The constant arguing is slowing everything down dramatically. John tells stories about everything.  Sidewalk is clear, but going in the house he wants to keep almost everything.  The yard is small, but it's all that's cleared out so far.  

Day Three-still starting in the house.  Poor Andi breaks down, and I feel so sorry for her. Andi tells John the truth, that no progress is happening.   John lets Andi clean out the kitchen.   That was a nasty job.  However, the fridge is still lurking in there.    The dining room is mostly clear, the kitchen is also 95% done.   

Day Four-Last day.  John is standing strong on not filtering through the dumpsters.  They want to clear the bedrooms, and his room is almost cleared out.   John says he wants to change his life. Steri-Clean and the organizers are cleaning and staging the house (the cleaning crew did not come to the house, this time).   Everything looks fantastic.    I hope this is a new beginning for John, Andi and Mary Rose, and the friends.  Everything is cleared out, except the few items that are left.   John's bedroom is so nice now. 

18 tons of trash gone, and 2 1/2 trucks of scrap metal.   Carolina will talk to codes enforcement.  Aftercare will be with Dr. Mays, and an organizer to help John get the remaining items organized. 

Epilogue--John is enjoying cooking and clearing out.  He's in good spirits over the clean up, and is continuing to clean up.   Friends helped him clear the garage out, and he can get his car in the garage now.  John plans to continue aftercare with his therapist.  He continues cleaning up, and getting rid of more stuff. 

 

I'm so happy for John and his friends and family.   He's a real success.   So, two successes in three episodes?  Maybe the show is picking people who really want help.  

(This is the second major hoarder in San Diego. There was another case last season where the son hoarded his mother's house. Son was Andy, mother was Louise.).

 

Edited January 24 by CrazyInAlabama

[JudyObscure]

John and Andi were so interesting.  I loved how much they looked like each other, like brother and sister.  They were both so tender hearted, I hope they were truly kindred spirits.

The only thing that worries me was Andi saying she had cleaned it once and he had messed it up again in weeks saying, "Did you expect it to stay this way?" 

I've noticed that lots of hoarders have no idea how to maintain a house with a daily routine of making the beds, taking out the trash, washing the dishes. Much less a weekly schedule of doing the laundry, cleaning the kitchen and bathroom fixtures, sweeping and mopping, dusting and vacuuming.

They think it's just about not hoarding anymore.  I think the show should do more teaching about how to keep a house under control once they've left.

 

[CrazyInAlabama]

4 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

John and Andi were so interesting.  I loved how much they looked like each other, like brother and sister.  They were both so tender hearted, I hope they were truly kindred spirits.

The only thing that worries me was Andi saying she had cleaned it once and he had messed it up again in weeks saying, "Did you expect it to stay this way?" 

I've noticed that lots of hoarders have no idea how to maintain a house with a daily routine of making the beds, taking out the trash, washing the dishes. Much less a weekly schedule of doing the laundry, cleaning the kitchen and bathroom fixtures, sweeping and mopping, dusting and vacuuming.

They think it's just about not hoarding anymore.  I think the show should do more teaching about how to keep a house under control once they've left.

 

Good point.  There are many people who never learned basic housekeeping skills, or the most efficient way to keep a house clean.   

[JudyObscure]

I think it was the first season where they had a couple of ex airline stewards, both very immature. The man cried over everything and the woman said her mother had spoiled her and never asked her to do anything while growing up.  They had a sweet little boy, about eight, who bonded with the crew and worked with them the whole time.  By the end of the show he was teaching his mother how to sweep with a broom.  He told her to make one big pile, she was making little random piles all over the room.  It was so pitiful.

[Gravity Check]

I really liked John. Such a California hippie. He and Andi seemed very much in tune, and I was glad to see her little breakdown. It must be like loving an addict, being with a hoarder.

His daughter seemed lovely, as well. I really hope he keeps it up.

Funny how they showed everything looking so open and beautiful, and then mentioned that there was still a lot to clean out. I hope with the support of the professionals, Andi, and his family, John keeps it from ever getting out of control again.

I'm really liking the hoarders this season. Happy endings, for the most part. And no gross-out messes or screaming harpies (so far). Fingers crossed.

[CrazyInAlabama]

The epilogue did say that John cleared the garage out with help from friends, and now can park his car in the garage.    He's also still working on clearing out.  He did have quite a bit of stuff still around in the rooms, and apparently the garage, so I'm encouraged by the fact he's still working on the clean up, and doesn't seem to be regressing, and is still working with his therapist.  

Monday the 29th is the last 2 hour episode, at least according to my cable guide. 

"Destiny"

New, 1/29/2024, Reality, Health, Profile

A woman needs to clean up her property or risk being evicted by her landlords, so the experts help her address the root causes of her hoarding tendencies, which became worse after a car accident took the lives of her sister and nephew.

 

Monday February 5 is a big change.  They have two one hour episodes of Hoarders, Where are They Now.  Episodes #101, and #102.  Revisiting past hoarders, I'm not hopeful about the ones from other seasons keeping clean.   

Edited January 27 by CrazyInAlabama

[CrazyInAlabama]

New, “Destiny” from Cameron, North Carolina

The house is so horrible.  Destiny and mother Gail, lived together there for 20 years.  Destiny has to clean out, or be evicted.  Then the mother died right before the filming was scheduled to start.

Dawn is Destiny’s sister.  Doug is Destiny’s older brother. Roddy is another brother.  

I’m surprised the floor of the house hasn’t given out.  Cooking was on one stove burner, microwave, or an air fryer.    Destiny just tosses trash anywhere, and doesn’t take it out.  Destiny and the mother spent their time in their rooms.   Destiny says her mother was a hoarder for her entire life.   The mother didn’t have piles of stuff at first, but still had a lot of stuff.  

When Destiny was 17, her sister and nephew were killed in a car wreck, and she identified the bodies.  Untreated grief is so horrible.   Hoarding increased a lot after the sister and nephew died, and after the father’s death in 2011.  Apparently, the father limited the hoarding inside the house. There are a lot of sheds on the lot that are totally full, and an eight stall barn, all are full.  Gail, the mother was a smoker, congestive heart failure, and a lot of other illnesses.     Gail only died two days before the clean up was scheduled to start. 

Destiny claims she still wants to clean up. The property manager said clean up or else Destiny will be evicted.   Dr. Z is so right, Destiny has no self-esteem, and untreated grief. 

Dorothy is the organizer, and I guess is the cleaning crew chief too, with Steri-Clean helping. Psychologist is Dr. Robin Zasio.  All of the siblings are helping with the cleanup. 

The property manager hasn’t been in the house in years, and she goes with Dorothy.   This is why property managers need to do a scheduled yearly inspection with appropriate notice at rentals. Even Dorothy is shaken at seeing the house.   The two outside shed, travel trailer and eight stall barn are chock full of junk. 

I’m hoping this is another success.   With help from her brother and sister, Destiny is really cleaning out a lot.  Dawn and Roddy are doing great, but Doug is wanting to keep a lot.   Dorothy had to bring in the biohazard crew for the bathroom clean up.   I’m worried at how flushed, and upset Destiny looks.   Dorothy and Zasio are really stepping up to the challenge.    Seven tons of trash gone, but the late mother’s room is next, and that’s going to be awful.

Destiny agrees to get rid of all of the junk in the shed and barn.   So, mother was a hoarder for many years.    The barns, and sheds are getting done, but it’s a lot of work.  The workers have to empty the trash into plastic cans, and take them on an ATV or utility trailer to the dumpster.  The old travel trailer gets hauled away.

The only room left is the late mother’s room.    Everything is cleared out, and the cleaning crew is amazing, a truly nasty job for the cleaners.   The property manager is inspecting.  Why didn’t they take the freezer away?  The property manager is happy, and with the agreement of the company, and the owner they will work on another lease with Destiny.  They got rid of 18 tons of junk, 9 commercial dumpsters of trash.   The one sibling I’m worried about is Doug, he seems to have hoarding tendencies also.  (I'm steamed at the property manager, she visited five years ago, and told the women to clean up, and didn't come back until the clean up.  By the way I read recently that because hoarding is now listed as a mental issue, that hoarding in an exempt class under the Fair Housing Act. ). 

I really have hope for Destiny, and her family.  The house looks so good after, including Destiny’s room. I’m wondering about the condition of the HVAC, plumbing, etc.  It also needs new carpet and paint, and I bet new light fixtures and appliances. 

Epilogue- Destiny is doing aftercare. She turned the house back to the property manager, and is living with her brother Roddy.  She hopes to move out on her own.  

(I’m glad she moved out of that isolated house.  I hope she's happy, and healthy, and living her best life.  )

(I think this is the last new episode of the season, Monday 5 February, there are two one-hour episodes titled: Hoarders, Where are They Now, #101 and #102.  I’ve read they’re having follow-ups on some of the hoarders from this season.  I’m hoping for success stories.)

#101 Carl in Tampa.  Episode was filmed two years ago, Dr. Tolin is revisiting, and it's back to a hoard.   Dr. T contacted APS, and with Carl's attorneys, medical team, and friends will try to help Carl find a better living situation, and improve his health. 

Eric in GA was filmed three years ago.  Dr. Zasio visits, he's hoarded the house and porch again, and Dr. Z wants him to go back to therapy, and organizers again.  I don't have any hope of this happening. 

#102 Destiny and Terri (Destiny was a recent success story, Terri from Missouri, isn't a success. ) 

Destiny cleaned up everything, including the barn and sheds.  She moved out of the remote rental and lived with her wonderful brother Roddy.   She's visited by Dorothy.      

 This is about 18 months after the clean-up.     She was only in the hoarded house for a week after clean up.  She moved in with Roddy, and now is living on her own.  Now she has two jobs.  She now lives on her own.   Her new place looks lovely, and she looks so different, and happy.   I’m glad for Destiny.  A wonderful success story.

 

Terri, from Missouri, her boyfriend is Kraig, her original episode was filmed two and a half years ago.  Cleanup did not go well.  The crew cleared the house, but the garage was packed with her keep boxes.     Kraig finally proposed at the end of the episode, they married a year later. They've been in a relationship for 47 years.   Terri only went to one session of aftercare therapy.   

She's visited by Dr. Zasio.   Terri and Kraig live in Kraig's home.  Her home is a dump place for her (her words), she drops stuff off, and is bringing stuff to her home with Kraig.  If Terri brings something to Kraig's home, he tells her to get rid of it, or donates it immediately.   

Dr. Z goes to Terri's old home, I remember that house, it was once lovely, and now it's hoarded full again.   Kraig says Terri's home is more hoarded than before the original clean-up.   Poor Kraig looks so frail, and unsteady.    Terri agrees to aftercare and organizing help. 

Kraig says Terri's been going to some kind of therapist for years, and he thinks nothing is helping Terri.  Dr. Zasio looks at the rest of the house, it's level 5 again.   

I feel so sorry for Kraig, he has to realize that Terri is choosing her hoard over him again, and if he pre-deceases her, that his home will be hoarded too.   I see no hope for Terri, I hope I'm wrong. 

(Next week #103  John and Andy both from San Diego, John was a huge success, and Andy wasn't, and #104 Meryl and Janet from previous seasons). 

Edited February 8 by CrazyInAlabama

[Elizzikra]

That was depressing. The only one of the four who is doing well, Destiny, maybe wasn't a true hoarder as much as she was a victim of her mother, who was a lifelong hoarder.

I'd like to suggest a new format for this show. Go. Do the cleanup. And then stay with these people for a year. Weekly therapy; regular sessions with an organizer and actually actively help them maintain their homes for a full year. Maybe that level of intense support would work. Because it's clear that the current hurricane cleanup isn't working for a majority of these participants.

[lu1535]

Dr.Zaz is starting to look like Darcey. 😞

[CrazyInAlabama]

On 2/5/2024 at 9:04 PM, Elizzikra said:

That was depressing. The only one of the four who is doing well, Destiny, maybe wasn't a true hoarder as much as she was a victim of her mother, who was a lifelong hoarder.

I'd like to suggest a new format for this show. Go. Do the cleanup. And then stay with these people for a year. Weekly therapy; regular sessions with an organizer and actually actively help them maintain their homes for a full year. Maybe that level of intense support would work. Because it's clear that the current hurricane cleanup isn't working for a majority of these participants.

A lot of the hoarders have already had repeated cleanouts.   Eric in GA, he said in the original episode that he was a master hoarder, and could rehoard in record time.   He proved that was true.   I bet that house was stuffed in a few months.   He sees no need to clean up.   

That's an issue I have about the show roping friends, family and neighbors into the clean up, they claim the clean up will work this time, and the chances are extremely low of that being true.   It's anything to keep the cameras rolling, and get a show out of it.   

Destiny was heart-warming, because her mother was no longer around to demand she keep hoarding.   In my opinion, the clean up would never have happened if mother Gail was still alive.    

Edited February 12 by CrazyInAlabama

[Tango64]

The follow-ups only confirm what some of us had thought from the beginning, that this whirlwind cleanup and on-the-fly counseling achieves very little meaningful change. Each episode presents an upbeat conclusion even if they have to really reach for it (one room sort of cleaned and the trash stored in U-Haul boxes), but usually the hoarder doesn't want to change and just says anything to get the crew out of the house.

It makes the show seem exploitative instead of helpful. Sure, they do a bit of good but the real goal seems to gawk at these people and their hoards while portraying themselves as great interventionists.

[Stevie Nicks]

Destiny was a success story! I wanted to hug her. I wish her all good fortune. And the "property manager" needs to be fired immediately. How does that woman still have a job? She's obviously incompetent and the owner dgaf about anything but the rent check. Smh. 

Kraig... Wtf did he think was going to happen? That Terri would magically stop hoarding? He looked so defeated. 

Carl needs to be in assisted living for the remainder of his life. Someone asked on X or Twitter who's paying for all his stuff. Probably our tax dollars. 

Finally, wtf did Zazio do to her face?? She looks horrible. She looked so much better before. 

 

[Claire85]

Zaz put way too much filler in her lips and face. It's even more obvious since the beginning of the episode was a flashback.

[JudyObscure]

The re-hoarding is depressing and gives us at home a taste of what the friends and relatives have had to endure over the years. If  Terri has had ten years of therapy and still completely filled a house in 2&1/2  years, I think it's time to give up on her and just let her hoard. 

Destiny and Dorothy are the cutest couple, they just thrive together.

Over the years I've enjoyed watching our psychologists as much as the hoarders.  Dr. Tolin (my sweet baboo)  has steadily gained weight until it peaked in Carl's first  episode and now I see he's lost some and got it under control. An inspiration to me!

Dr. Zasio, in spite of being blessed with lots of natural beauty, always seems to be working against herself with her hair and make-up choices and the last few years it seems to be misplaced botox or something. I think she still looks good, just different.

They're all still patient and kind with the Hoarders, so they have my deepest admiration for that.  I think I would have switched to an area with a higher success rate like heroin/fentanyl addicts or something.

 

[Shrek]

22 hours ago, Tango64 said:

The follow-ups only confirm what some of us had thought from the beginning, that this whirlwind cleanup and on-the-fly counseling achieves very little meaningful change. Each episode presents an upbeat conclusion even if they have to really reach for it (one room sort of cleaned and the trash stored in U-Haul boxes), but usually the hoarder doesn't want to change and just says anything to get the crew out of the house.

It makes the show seem exploitative instead of helpful. Sure, they do a bit of good but the real goal seems to gawk at these people and their hoards while portraying themselves as great interventionists.

I get what you're saying but the people who go straight back to hoarding & never follow up with all of the tools the people put in place for them comes under the heading of "you can lead a horse to water..........." .

They just have to celebrate the few wins they get and keep plugging away at the hoarders.

If the show seems exploitative then you don't have to watch it, I watched 10 minutes of that Shauna Ray (sp?) programme and never watched it again for the very reason that it seemed exploitative to me.

[CrazyInAlabama]

Two new 1-hour episodes tonight. 

#103  John and Andy both from San Diego, John was a huge success, and Andy wasn't. 

John was a real dumpster diver, and cleaned up his house beautifully, and continued on cleaning up.   Original episode was filmed 18 months ago. John was in therapy for years, and said he would continue after the show.  His daughter, girlfriend Andi, and several friends helped him clean up.  The turning point was when his girlfriend Andi talked about her frustration with his hoard, and he let his daughter, and Andi make decisions, and he really cleaned up. The epilogue on the original episode said he's continuing with his therapist, and with the help of friends cleared the garage out, and is still clearing out stuff. 

Shocking update, John quit aftercare, he broke up with Andi, they're on-again, off-again, and isn't hoarding at the house but is hoarding in storage units.  I really had hopes for him, but I now see he was just cleaning up temporarily, and has zero chance of keeping the house cleaned up.   

Carolina the organizer meets with Andi, who says they broke up, and he won't let Andi in the house.  John says Andi will be disappointed with him.  Carolina is allowed in the house, which is well on the way to rehoarding, items stacked everywhere, you can still see the floor.  John says he's down to one 10' x 10' storage unit from four units, and the stuff in the house is from the three abandoned storage units.   He claims he's still cleaning out.  He still hasn't passed his code enforcement inspection.    

John claims he's going to go back to seeing the therapist soon.  The back yard looks like a trash dump again.   I think he's churning between the sheds.   He says he has a therapist appointment the next week.  

Andy is the one who lived in his mother's house, and hoarded the inside and outside so badly his frail mother was endangered.     Property was about an acre, and it was piled full inside and outside of the house.  His mother Louise, 93 years old, owns the house, and land, as Andy's caretaker.   I agree with the out of town brother, and his son, Andy is taking advantage of the mother. 

The mother had a reverse mortgage, and between that and the liens from the city was in an enormous amout of debt.   The mortgage contract required her to keep the home in good repair, so the episode narration said that when the mortgage company people were coming to inspect she would be foreclosed on.  The fees on the mortgage are now $500,000 plus liens from the city.    The original clean up was only on a few rooms in the house, and the carport.   There is a decent open space in the back yard, but the rest is still hoarded.   

The update on the original episode was dismal. 

Return visit is two years after the first episode was filmed.  Return visit is from Dr. Zasio.   Andy's mother Louise died at home, a year after the show was filmed.   He claims he's getting rid of stuff, not collecting any more, sold the house, and is clearing out in preparation for the new owners.   Zasio makes the mistake of going in the carport, which is full with only a path left.

He says he's moving to Arizona.  He still has legal issues to sell the house.  The back yard is a dump, five feet high.  Zasio thinks having pathways is acceptable, and he's not rehoarding.    He has pancreatic cancer.  If there was an update after this I missed the last scenes.  

 

#104 Meryl and Janet from previous seasons. 

Meryl   from Massachusetts, borrowed $12,000 or $15,000 from her brother to clean up and repair the house, and didn't.  I think there was a mention of a second mortgage too.  Meryl didn't seem to have any resistance to getting rid of things either.   Meryl and husband Kevin claim the hoard started with what her mother left her.   The house is packed including almost all of the mother's stuff in the basement. Then, Meryl hoarded the first floor full.  She has Lymphedema, she was a court reporter.    House looked good after the clean up, at least on the first floor. 

Return visit is  3 years after the original clean up.  Cory Chalmers is visiting. Sadly, the empty first floor is packed at least five feet high.    Meryl swears she emptied the storage unit, and it must have been huge because was going up to $300 a month.    My recent 10' x 20' wasn't even $200, and that was climate controlled and not the cheapest I could find, so I'm betting a 10' x 30' or 40'.   The junk in the first floor looks more like a bunch of storage units, not one.   

Her husband has Alzheimers and needs surgery, she has Lymphedema that's advancing.  Meryl wants to move to an assisted living apartment, either a 1 bedroom or studio.  Then, she says they won't move for a few years.   However, her husband says they pay less than $2,000 a month for the house, and the other apartment would cost at least $6,000, so he wants Meryl to clean up, and for them to stay in the house.   I hate to say this, but memory care where the husband will eventually end up isn't just $6,000 a month, but at least $8,000 to $10,000. 

Meryl refuses to see reality when Cory tells her she can't clean up by herself.  They still owe a lot on the house, and need to sell the house, to finance their future living plan.  Cory tells her packing up has to use outside help.   Cory offers to keep advising them.   

They're not going to get any more than land value for that hoarded out mess of a house.  I bet they'll have to sell the house 'as is' for very little money, because of the clean up required.  Meryl is fooling herself thinking she can get $400,000 for that house.   I don't think she'll ever change, or move.   The husband is right, the house is 25% of the cost of the apartment Meryl is thinking of. 

 

Janet is from Diamond Bar, California.   Her episode was filmed 14 years ago.  Her husband died waiting for a heart transplant.   She met with Dr Suzanne, and Dorothy was her organizer.    The house and pool area was huge, and she packed it full.   The after on the house looks great, except for some stacked boxes.  

Follow up visit is 14 years later. One of the daughters is at the house too, with Janet.   The house looks wonderful.  Janet has renovated the house, and it looks lovely.  Janet still has boxes on the patio she's going through. Janet credits Dorothy with changing her life.   Janet now has the house design she always wanted.   

Epilogue is Janet is living her best life.  

 

(This isn't the end of the season, next Monday, the 19th is a totally different show, but there's another new episode, 2 hours, on 26 February.  David and Elizabeth, and it sounds like a tragic situation). 

 

Edited February 14 by CrazyInAlabama

[Elizzikra]

Sigh. And Meryl's poor husband has Alzheimers? This is a horrible situation.

[essexjan]

On 2/6/2024 at 11:35 AM, lu1535 said:

Dr.Zaz is starting to look like Darcey. 😞

I actually said out loud (with only the cat to hear) "What the f**k has she done to her face?!"

[CrazyInAlabama]

Notice John and Meryl had the same excuses for their huge amount of rebuilding the hoard.  "I emptied out my storage units", there is zero way that Meryl emptied one storage unit out, unless it was the size of a house.   

John claimed to have emptied multiple storage units, and I still don't believe him.   He claimed to be going back to therapy, and emptied the garage out, and was parking a car in it, there is no way you could get a car in that garage.    

Since Andy's mother owed over $500,000 with the reverse mortgage fees, and liens, I wonder how much he had to pay to get ownership of the house?     

I don't think Meryl or her husband will ever move, and she's rehoarding, not emptying storage units.   

I loved seeing Janet again, and the progress, but the boxes on the back patio was worrying.  

Edited February 14 by CrazyInAlabama

[Elizzikra]

2 hours ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

 

I don't think Meryl or her husband will ever move, and she's rehoarding, not emptying storage units.   

 

I fear for her husband. Alzheimer’s can progress quickly and there is no way he can live safely in that home.

[Rapunzel]

On 2/13/2024 at 8:48 AM, essexjan said:

I actually said out loud (with only the cat to hear) "What the f**k has she done to her face?!"

I said the same thing. It looks like she walked into a bee hive. I am deathly allergic to stings from bees, wasps, hornets, etc. and I have to keep an epi pen on me all the time especially as I live in CA where they are around pretty much all year. I wanted to give Dr. Z my epi pen hoping it would cure the mess that they made of her face with the filler, Botox and collagen. 

[CrazyInAlabama]

Tonight's new episode David & Elizabeth. a pair of hoarders. From TV Guide: they have mortgaged their house to pay for TV-sold items.  They live in Ottawa, Ontario. 

David & Elizabeth have a hoard full of junk they call collectibles.   David says he never loved Elizabeth, and says she was the plainest one when they met.  I wonder how the wife and daughters felt when they saw the film of David saying his awful statements about all of them. 

They have three daughters, and seven grandkids who never come in the house. 

Elizabeth has been ill since the 80's with chronic fatigue, and had heart surgery.   Her doctor found out about the hoard, and said if they don't clean up that he'll call the fire department and have the house condemned.   David says he thinks Elizabeth is faking being sick, when she's had chronic fatigue since the 80's, and heart surgery. .  She moved out to a retirement home, and David doesn't want  her spending money on herself.   After David says he never loved his wife, then he chooses the hoard over his daughter.    I can't stand David, and Elizabeth's enabling is awful too.   

One daughter, Wendy,  and her husband will help, and the other, Kathy,  will help too, but she can't work inside with the dust and filth because of her allergies.  I guess the third daughter refused to be guilted into being on the show. Natasha the psychologist, and Effy the organizer are trying, but David will never clean up.  

David thinks his junky collectibles are valuable, and he's totally wrong.   Why is a sick woman like Elizabeth in the house?  Why is anyone working in this house without respirators?    I feel sorry for the neighbors, you know the mice that left the hoard went shopping for another place to invade.  David sees nothing wrong with some 20 year old bacon in the fridge.   

Why are the staff trying to get David to clean up for his family?  He doesn't care about his family at all.  Kathy, the daughter refuses stay at the filming if David keeps stalling on clean up.  Natasha is delusional if she thinks David will clean up.  Why does Natasha ask David if he's going to  clean up for his grandchildren?  He has said he doesn't care about family.   

Kathy walks, and the third daughter Sheila comes for a few hours.  Sheila is lying to herself if she believes David cares about her or the rest of her family.  Elizabeth thinks she can take a lot of stuff to her one bedroom place at the retirement home, and she's just as bad as David.  If Elizabeth cared about her daughters then why did she raise them in a hoard full of vermin?  Then Elizabeth tells Natasha to leave. 

The daughters ask an appraiser to view the home and evaluate the collectibles.  The only valuable items are the Tiffany reproduction lamps. David refuses to sell or get rid of anything. David is stopping everything, but Elizabeth is the same. Nothing from the main floor will be sold. Natasha should wise up, and take David at his word that he doesn't care about anyone but himself. 

12 tons removed.    I don't beleive anything will change in the future.    The house looks good, but I'm sure it won't stay that way.  I'm sick of David's 'jokes'.   He says he'd die for his wife and kids, but he consistently says he doesn't care about any of them. 

Epilogue-Grandchildren get to visit for the first time.  David is working with an aftercare organizer, and hasn't added any more lamps.    Elizabeth is still living in the retirement home and isn't coming back to the house.   

(My question is where they stashed the mountains of junk that David and Elizabeth kept?  They kept so much, but the house was cleaned out. So, I'm suspecting the garage is full of junk, maybe some storage units, and I bet it all moved back.  We never saw the other extra bedroom either.      I hate that the grandkids were exposed to that house, it should have been gutted, and cleaned out by biohazard people, not unprotected cleaning crews with rubber gloves.  David was so horrible, and his wife was pretty awful also, but I feel the most sadness for their daughters, who saw their father say on TV that he doesn't care about Elizabeth, or anyone else.) 

I hope that when the daughters saw what their awful father said about them and their mother, that they cut him off. 

 

(See Schnickelfritz's post below for what's going on with the rest of the season)

(Next Monday 4 March, is new "Lori", who is hoarding her house with her son living there.  Every source I can find says this season has 8 episodes including the Where are they Nows.  So, I guess the 4 March episode will be the last one.  So, the last two of the season are from Hoarders Canada.)  

Edited February 28 by CrazyInAlabama

[Schnickelfritz]

3 hours ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

Next Monday 4 March, is new "Lori", who is hoarding her house with her son living there. ) Every source I can find says this season has 8 episodes including the Where are they Nows.  So, I guess this episode will be the last one. 

My DVR says that this is an episode of Hoarders Canada. Doing a little digging, Lori is episode 3 and 4 of Hoarders Canada that originally aired (in Canada) last March.

[LGraves65]

"A little on the plainish side," oh David you can eff RIGHT off.

[Schnickelfritz]

Last night's episode was Hoarders Canada episodes #1 and 2. Surprise....

Nope, I'm wrong. Wrong David... Don't know where it falls in the scheme of things.

Edited February 27 by Schnickelfritz

[JudyObscure]

David and Elizabeth proved that this show will never stop amazing me.

When we looked at their wedding pictures and David said she had been "plainish," while we see she was cute and he looked just like Ichabod Crane.  I just shook my head.  Then we saw all the money he had spent on stuff he liked while admitting he was too lazy to do anything and wouldn't even take out the garbage  -- and then remarks that Elizabeth is selfish. 

David also complains that she pays full price for things while he always pays the "sale price."  I guess 30 years of QVC shopping he's never noticed that everything is always on "sale."  If the original price ever happened it was probably for five minutes off camera.  He also probably never thought that buying a lamp you don't need and don't have a place for is not a bargain even if cost one dollar.  You just waste a dollar.

Even my husband looked up from his computer and said, "What a jerk."

So at the one hour mark we hated him and turned the TV off.

Now, I've watched the second hour and I can't stand Elizabeth either.  She is selfish, unable to part with a single purse or parka and not interested in living in this house but wants her 50% of it along with her assisted living house and nice six o'clock dinners cooked by someone else.  Frist she was saying she came home from the hospital and got dizzy in the nasty kitchen but later she admits it was always like that, just with a little square clear space.  David is amazingly lazy, but at least he held a job for many years while apparently Elisabeth didn't do one darn thing.

How do people like this manage to raise such nice children?

 

[Stevie Nicks]

They never said what David did for a living before he retired. He's some piece of work. I wanted to punch him. 

[Elizzikra]

4 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

David and Elizabeth proved that this show will never stop amazing me.

David is amazingly lazy, but at least he held a job for many years while apparently Elisabeth didn't do one darn thing.

How do people like this manage to raise such nice children?

 

Well… someone had to raise the nice children. That was probably mostly Elisabeth. I don’t think the house was always as badly hoarded. They mentioned that at least one of the bedrooms had originally been a bedroom for one of the daughters. Elisabeth also mentioned it was really busy when the kids were little; she also mentioned sewing with them, etc. And she did have chronic health conditions serious enough to warrant a disability check. I don’t know about Canada but it’s not really easy to get that in the US so I don’t doubt she really was ill.

I did completely understand the dynamic in which David had the job and made Elisabeth feel as though all the money was “his,” completely discounting the work she did as a mother and homemaker. And for all we know, David’s job was something that required little more from him than showing up with a pulse. I have a hard time picturing him as highly productive in any setting other than shopping.

Honestly, I had a hard time finding sympathy for either one of them. David clearly was perfectly happy in his mess and Elisabeth was living somewhere safe (albeit with what appears to be a strangely rigid meal schedule - were they going to deny her dinner if she was a few minutes late?). I thought the best possible outcome would have been to get whatever they could for the house and the contents and have both David and Elisabeth in senior care facilities, though maybe different ones since they clearly can’t stand each other. 

[JudyObscure]

On 2/27/2024 at 4:06 PM, Elizzikra said:

I did completely understand the dynamic in which David had the job and made Elisabeth feel as though all the money was “his,” completely discounting the work she did as a mother and homemaker.

I do understand that and I hate it when the man thinks all the money is his when a proper division of labor says she deserves half the income if she is raising the children, cooking and cleaning.   But I'll never believe Elisabeth did any actual work as homemaker.   She says she sewed with the children but their little sewing machine was still brand new and she seemed to have bought hundreds of pieces of clothing for herself and matching outfits for the girls.  David and Elisabeth both admitted that they didn't do housework or cooking and one of the girls said it was always a mess.  David said she had always spent as much as she wanted to and never even saw the bills.

[CrazyInAlabama]

I suspect one of David's statements about his family coming second to his junk was because  he has three daughters.   His despicable statements about  Elizabeth and the daughters were disgusting.   I think the lukewarm welcome in the ending scenes was because he didn't care if the daughters or granddaughters visited.  

I didn't notice until reading the show synopsis, but they remortgaged the home to pay the bills. His major issue was Elizabeth wasn't that she was spending so much living in the assisted living apartment, but she disobeyed him.    That was also his problem with her spending so much on the shopping channel stuff, she didn't listen to him and stop, so he could keep spending on the shopping channel stuff.    Except for the lamps, I doubt anything in that house they bought off of TV shows was worth anything.    Those collector plates he had were just mass market over-priced junk. Those little figurines were the same type of thing, and useless for resale. 

(Monday 4 March is Lori, I read that one is unique, since the hoarder lives in a very remote location, and disposing of the trash is a huge problem in logistics.   Then, 11 March is David and Odette. Both are Canadian episodes. and if they show the episode about Coral, it's also a Canadian episode, but my cable guide (Titan TV) doesn't go that far out.). 

Edited March 2 by CrazyInAlabama