Everybody Loves Raymond - General Discussion

[WendyCR72]

Came across an old link to Peter Boyle's obituary from 2006. How did I never know that Beatle John Lennon was the best man at his wedding? Or that he spent 3 years in a monastery before deciding to act instead?

What a diverse sort of life he led!

(And, per that same obituary, was the only cast member of the show to not win an Emmy, which seems so wrong. He deserved one! On a side note, on a sorta coincidentally "life's funny" note, my middle school [so mid-'80s!] vice-principal was named...Frank Barone! Except he looked nothing like TV Frank...)

[ByTor]

11 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Came across an old link to Peter Boyle's obituary from 2006

Wow, hard to believe it's been that long!

[TVMovieBuff]

13 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Came across an old link to Peter Boyle's obituary from 2006. How did I never know that Beatle John Lennon was the best man at his wedding? Or that he spent 3 years in a monastery before deciding to act instead?

What a diverse sort of life he led!

(And, per that same obituary, was the only cast member of the show to not win an Emmy, which seems so wrong. He deserved one! On a side note, on a sorta coincidentally "life's funny" note, my middle school [so mid-'80s!] vice-principal was named...Frank Barone! Except he looked nothing like TV Frank...)

I read "Frank Barone" like that guy in the clip, in the video Ray & Robert put together in "Frank's Tribute". 

My maiden name was Donna Martin, like Tori Spelling's character in Beverly HIlls 90210.

[ByTor]

1 hour ago, TVMovieBuff said:

I read "Frank Barone" like that guy in the clip, in the video Ray & Robert put together in "Frank's Tribute". 

LOL!!! So did I!!! 😂

[Gemma Violet]

On 9/6/2022 at 9:50 PM, WendyCR72 said:

How did I never know that Beatle John Lennon was the best man at his wedding?

Wow, I didn't know that either. 😲

[ljenkins782]

On 5/5/2021 at 12:47 PM, WinnieWinkle said:

I am just watching the Ray Home Alone episode and so identified with Ray when he is nervous about being alone and gets up and closes his bedroom door "Oh great now I can't hear the murderer" and opens it again.  I am always conflicted like that when I'm alone at night too 😄.

I just watched that one, so funny. I love alone time, but once I work myself up into a state like that, I can't settle back down.

Catching up on this show on Peacock, just saw the one where Ray and Debra choose their friends as guardians in their will instead of Ray's family. It makes no sense to me why they would choose and name these people without actually asking them first if they'd even want the kids. They have a baby of their own that they're hovering over obsessively, taking on 3 additional kids is a pretty enormous commitment, especially for people who aren't even family.

[Bethany]

On 9/13/2022 at 2:20 PM, ljenkins782 said:

It makes no sense to me why they would choose and name these people without actually asking them first if they'd even want the kids.

I just saw this one as well and I hated the way Debra and Ray act like they ever actually considered Robert as a possible guardian.  His name never even came up!  And even at the end when they run through their entire address book they still won't consider Robert over either of their parents (or the Bronx Zoo!)

[qtpye]

On 9/13/2022 at 2:20 PM, ljenkins782 said:

I just watched that one, so funny. I love alone time, but once I work myself up into a state like that, I can't settle back down.

Catching up on this show on Peacock, just saw the one where Ray and Debra choose their friends as guardians in their will instead of Ray's family. It makes no sense to me why they would choose and name these people without actually asking them first if they'd even want the kids. They have a baby of their own that they're hovering over obsessively, taking on 3 additional kids is a pretty enormous commitment, especially for people who aren't even family.

It seems like it never occurred to them that some people might not be thrilled with the idea of raising their 3 kids.

[TVMovieBuff]

On 9/23/2022 at 5:28 PM, qtpye said:

It seems like it never occurred to them that some people might not be thrilled with the idea of raising their 3 kids.

If Robert thought he had a hard time getting women, it would have become impossible if he had 3 of OPK (Other People"s Kids) to raise. Marie would have taken that over, and for the best.

[ljenkins782]

On 9/23/2022 at 5:28 PM, qtpye said:

It seems like it never occurred to them that some people might not be thrilled with the idea of raising their 3 kids.

3 kids is a lot and again, these were just friends of theirs. Who on earth would think non-family members would be up for raising their kids without any discussion.

I just watched the one where Debra wants to be alone. I know it wasn't nice of him, but Ray's reaction to Debra bleaching her mustache cracks me up. The expression of genuine befuddlement and "how long have you been...sporting that?" kills me. And his dancing to Lady Marmalade at the end too. 

[Bethany]

On 9/29/2022 at 1:36 PM, ljenkins782 said:

And his dancing to Lady Marmalade at the end too. 

Some of my favourite episodes are the dancing ones.  This one and the one where Ray goes swing dancing and especially the awesome dance Robert and Amy do at their wedding.  Oh and the one where the Barones are all at a wedding and Robert does the bunny hop.  That one kills me.  No matter how many times I see it I start laughing.

[andidante]

23 minutes ago, Elizabeth Anne said:

Some of my favourite episodes are the dancing ones.  This one and the one where Ray goes swing dancing and especially the awesome dance Robert and Amy do at their wedding.  Oh and the one where the Barones are all at a wedding and Robert does the bunny hop.  That one kills me.  No matter how many times I see it I start laughing.

I love Robert and Amy's wedding dance! It's my favorite. 

[Fellaway]

3 hours ago, andidante said:

I love Robert and Amy's wedding dance! It's my favorite. 

Agreed. I've just watched BG's two episode turn on L&O: SVU and can't get over what a good actor he is. These two characters couldn't be more different.

[Bethany]

Just watching the Pat smokes episode and good grief why on earth did they have to make that cake Debra was icing look so terrible?  I know the last years of the show they really doubled down on the Debra is a lousy cook thing but c'mon!  If you can't make a cake and ice it so it at least looks edible you go to a bakery and buy one!

Edited October 22, 2022 by Elizabeth Anne

[TVMovieBuff]

On 10/21/2022 at 11:02 PM, Elizabeth Anne said:

Just watching the Pat smokes episode and good grief why on earth did they have to make that cake Debra was icing look so terrible?  I know the last years of the show they really doubled down on the Debra is a lousy cook thing but c'mon!  If you can't make a cake and ice it so it at least looks edible you go to a bakery and buy one!

I know I would just buy one! But Debra just wouldn't cave in and she never stopped trying to show Marie that she could cook too. Marie would have denigrated a store-bought cake even worse!

[Gemma Violet]

On 10/21/2022 at 10:02 PM, Elizabeth Anne said:

Just watching the Pat smokes episode

By the way, you'd think Pat's husband would have smelled smoke on her at least once in 2-3 decades, or however long she smoked.  Even if she only smoked outside upwind, he'd still smell it on her breath, despite gum, mints, etc.

[Bethany]

On 9/29/2022 at 1:36 PM, ljenkins782 said:

I just watched the one where Debra wants to be alone. I know it wasn't nice of him, but Ray's reaction to Debra bleaching her mustache cracks me up. The expression of genuine befuddlement and "how long have you been...sporting that?" kills me. And his dancing to Lady Marmalade at the end too. 

This episode was on tonight and that ending with Lady Marmalade!  Even though I knew it was coming I still sat here with a big goofy grin on my face.  Loved it.

[ByTor]

On 3/29/2021 at 8:54 AM, readster said:

If anything has proven over the series besides the constant: "Debra can't cook." I think at times, she resented being the house wife/stay at home mommy. Something I said during the final two years of the show. Deb could have gone back to work, I know they did it a few years prior and it just showed that Debra was just not a pleasant person to work around. Thinking she knew it all and even going as far as learning that through her old job, people were happy when she quit to stay at home with the kids. 

I was going through older comments here and came across this. For the life of me, I do not remember the bolded part happening. Does anyone know what episode?

[Gemma Violet]

I think that's when she went to work for the advertising agency and refused to back down when the boss said her idea of a "Pete Za" mascot for a pizza company was no good.  

[TVMovieBuff]

It was in season 1, the episode called Working Girl. When the kids were older it seems Debra could have gone out to work. But they always hinted that Ray made good money,so she just didn't. 

[Bethany]

4 hours ago, ByTor said:

I was going through older comments here and came across this. For the life of me, I do not remember the bolded part happening. Does anyone know what episode?

I agree with Gemma - this is a misunderstanding of what happened the day Debra had a job, Working Girl, in season 3.  An episode which was truly funny but also one of the times that they portrayed Debra pretty unrealistically just to make sure she didn't actually get out of the house!  

I'm an ELR junkie and the only times Debra's working career prior to marriage is ever mentioned aside from a brief comment or two and in at least one flashback episode is when we meet Amy in season one and the discussion is completely focused on Amy at work, there is really no reason why Amy would have said anything negative to Debra about how her former colleagues felt when she left!

Edited April 2, 2023 by Elizabeth Anne

[Bethany]

50 minutes ago, TVMovieBuff said:

But they always hinted that Ray made good money,so she just didn't. 

I think by the last few years of the show they didn't even show Ray or Robert at work anymore (which was too bad as some of the funniest early episodes involved Ray at work) and although I think Amy was still working they all certainly spent a lot of time at home for working people!  That said there was no reason at all why they couldn't have had Deb working, at least part-time, and just never mention her job - just like the others!

ETA:  I always wondered too about just how much money Ray was making.  IIRC he wasn't a syndicated columnist so his income would be the salary he got from the paper he wrote for.  They had him trying to write books that never seemed to lead to anything so no extra $$ from royalties. Anyway I'm sure he would have gotten a decent salary but could it have been as good as the show conveyed?

Edited April 2, 2023 by Elizabeth Anne

[ByTor]

I'm not sure what Ray's title was, but according to Zip Recruiter, the average 2023 salary for a Senior Writer in NYC is about $93k a year, so I would imagine that in the 1990s he would have done well but not the level the show seemed to imply.

[Bethany]

4 minutes ago, ByTor said:

I'm not sure what Ray's title was, but according to Zip Recruiter, the average 2023 salary for a Senior Writer in NYC is about $93k a year, so I would imagine that in the 1990s he would have done well but not the level the show seemed to imply.

Just did a quick search for what a lieutenant in the NYPD would be making and the salary, depending on the site, ranges from 85k up to about 125k (I assume depending on seniority).  Anyway if we try to make the show at all based on reality, in the last few years of the show with Robert and Amy both working they must have had more money coming in than Ray and Debra did!  I guess the writers though were not basing the show on reality 😃!

Edited April 2, 2023 by Elizabeth Anne

[Fellaway]

15 hours ago, Elizabeth Anne said:

They had him trying to write books that never seemed to lead to anything so no extra $$ from royalties. Anyway I'm sure he would have gotten a decent salary but could it have been as good as the show conveyed?

The biggest mysteries of the show, for me, were how they maintained their lifestyle with three kids, that house, and Debra not working, on just Ray's salary alone, and why Ray wanted to write a book so badly when he hated reading so very much. Actually, the biggest mystery for me, I guess, is that he was a writer at all. I have a very hard time believing someone who doesn't read can be a good writer.

[Gemma Violet]

29 minutes ago, Fellaway said:

I have a very hard time believing someone who doesn't read can be a good writer.

Lol, not only that, but also someone who loves sitting around watching TV, is lazy when it comes to helping around the house, and doesn't have much common sense, i.e. fighting a kitchen fire with a short hose that didn't reach the fire.  It's like there are two Rays:  dull-witted husband Ray and smart writer Ray. 😄

 

[Bethany]

9 hours ago, Fellaway said:

The biggest mysteries of the show, for me, were how they maintained their lifestyle

I wonder this about Frank and Marie as well!  I mean they don't spend money on vacations or home decor but they certainly don't stint on the groceries!  All on social security and whatever pension Frank would have gotten from the job where he got fired!  They might not have had a golden retirement but they were doing awfully well!  Only in Hollywood 😃!

[Gemma Violet]

On 4/3/2023 at 11:43 AM, Elizabeth Anne said:

I wonder this about Frank and Marie as well!  I mean they don't spend money on vacations or home decor but they certainly don't stint on the groceries!  All on social security and whatever pension Frank would have gotten from the job where he got fired!  They might not have had a golden retirement but they were doing awfully well!  Only in Hollywood 😃!

Reminds me of Family Affair where they lived in what looked like a 2,000 sq. ft. apartment in Manhattan.  Yeah, I know Uncle Bill was a successful engineer, but geez.

Edited April 8, 2023 by Gemma Violet

[ByTor]

On 4/3/2023 at 2:56 AM, Fellaway said:

The biggest mysteries of the show, for me, were how they maintained their lifestyle with three kids, that house, and Debra not working, on just Ray's salary alone, and why Ray wanted to write a book so badly when he hated reading so very much. Actually, the biggest mystery for me, I guess, is that he was a writer at all. I have a very hard time believing someone who doesn't read can be a good writer.

Even in the Homework episode, Ray talks about ending a sentence with a "proposition." A writer doesn't even know it's "preposition?"

[Gemma Violet]

2 hours ago, ByTor said:

Even in the Homework episode, Ray talks about ending a sentence with a "proposition." A writer doesn't even know it's "preposition?"

And in the episode where he goes on TV, he says "asterix" for "asterisk" and "axe" for "ask." 

[Guest]

On 4/2/2023 at 10:44 AM, Elizabeth Anne said:

An episode which was truly funny but also one of the times that they portrayed Debra pretty unrealistically just to make sure she didn't actually get out of the house!  

I thought it was pretty realistic. Debra was a know it all at times and definitely liked her way or the highway. While in a career, she probably knew not to show that at work or maybe it wasn't as strong a trait by then. After years of being home and getting her  way with Ray and the kids, I can see her having a rough time of having to listen to someone else.

[Bethany]

5 minutes ago, deaja said:

I thought it was pretty realistic. Debra was a know it all at times and definitely liked her way or the highway.

True, although she clearly walked a fine line in terms of her relationship with Marie, and to some extent, Frank.  What she said about them to Ray didn't always seem to translate to how she spoke to them face to face so she did have some ability to curb her tongue!  That said I guess what I found most unrealistic was that a brand new hire, who had been out of the world of advertising for a number of years, would have been given an account and expected to produce something for a national campaign before she'd even spent a full day in the office!

[qtpye]

1 hour ago, Elizabeth Anne said:

True, although she clearly walked a fine line in terms of her relationship with Marie, and to some extent, Frank.  What she said about them to Ray didn't always seem to translate to how she spoke to them face to face so she did have some ability to curb her tongue!  That said I guess what I found most unrealistic was that a brand new hire, who had been out of the world of advertising for a number of years, would have been given an account and expected to produce something for a national campaign before she'd even spent a full day in the office!

I think the best gag in the episode was the state of the house after Ray had been there for a day with the kids. Though, it seemed Marie would take the opportunity of Debra working "to take over Ray's house" and make it spotless.

[Bethany]

1 minute ago, qtpye said:

I think the best gag in the episode was the state of the house after Ray had been there for a day with the kids.

I wondered who had looked after them since they were now "latchkey children"!  I didn't twig that it had been Ray with them for the day.  The house looked like it did the one day Ray worked from home and the kitchen looked like a tornado had gone through!

[ByTor]

On 4/5/2023 at 2:03 PM, Elizabeth Anne said:

I guess what I found most unrealistic was that a brand new hire, who had been out of the world of advertising for a number of years, would have been given an account and expected to produce something for a national campaign before she'd even spent a full day in the office!

Yeah, I get Charlotte saying that she needed someone who can just step in and do the job, but it's pretty unreasonable to do what she did to a new hire.

[Bethany]

Remember when Ray says "it's harder to watch the person in pain then to be the person in pain"?  I am feeling that today.  My husband dislocated his shoulder which was bad enough, but the pain from the surgery is pretty intense today and he doesn't want to take the heavy duty pain meds.  As Marie would say "such a brave little soldier".  But I am thinking maybe Ray wasn't being as selfish as Debra and I thought.  It really is very hard to watch someone else in pain!  

[TVMovieBuff]

One of my favorite running jokes in the series is: Harriet Lichtman! Frank's dream laty and Marie's nemesis!

One episode cracks me up when Marie yells at Frank "you are never going to be with Harriet Lichtman1" he replies "was there an offer?"

And the whole bit about the 200 pound cleaning lady & Ray in the episode Older Women was gold. 

 

[Bethany]

26 minutes ago, TVMovieBuff said:

And the whole bit about the 200 pound cleaning lady & Ray in the episode Older Women was gold

It really was but my favourite part of that episode was the "older woman" and that slow ascent on the stairs!

[Gemma Violet]

4 hours ago, TVMovieBuff said:

One of my favorite running jokes in the series is: Harriet Lichtman! Frank's dream laty and Marie's nemesis!

One episode cracks me up when Marie yells at Frank "you are never going to be with Harriet Lichtman1" he replies "was there an offer?"

And when that office supply guy shows up to thank Frank for his past mentorship and Marie thinks he's Frank's secret son by Harriet Lichtman. 😆

[Bethany]

1 hour ago, Gemma Violet said:

And when that office supply guy shows up to thank Frank for his past mentorship and Marie thinks he's Frank's secret son by Harriet Lichtman. 😆

"Lips that touch Harriet Lichtman's will never touch mine!"

[TVMovieBuff]

My dad was a mechanic in a sewing factory and was friends with a lot of the women, especially one named Hilda. 

My mom's name was Marie too, and during ELR, I think Hilda was my dad's Harriet!

[MissT]

My favorite episode of all time is the tofu turkey Thanksgiving.  I remember watching that and laughing hysterically.   I watch all the reruns and it still makes me laugh. 😂😂😂

[Bethany]

5 minutes ago, MissT said:

My favorite episode of all time is the tofu turkey Thanksgiving

“You know what makes me happy? Butter!” 

[TVMovieBuff]

My current favorite episode (they change!) is Jazz Records. I like the way Ray's frustration over Frank's preference for scratched vinyl records over pristine CDs, was compared with Ray's love of his old dictionary over the electronic dictionary the twins gave him. 

The pile of unused gifts from Ray  in Frank & Marie's basement: Mount Crapmore. 

And Robert slip-sliding on eggs. 

[Guest]

I don’t know what my favorite episode is but my favorite scene is from Not So Fast (Season 9, episode 2) where Ray and Debra listen to all the ways Frank and Marie have harmed the retirement village. 
 

 

[Bethany]

Just now, deaja said:

Ray and Debra listen to all the ways Frank and Marie have harmed the retirement village. 

Oh my god, that woman "we have people to help you pack".  I don't know how many times I've seen that episode and yet I laugh out loud every time!

[Gemma Violet]

Lol, I like that scene, too.  "But as bad as your father is . . . . . ." 😆

My favorite scene is in The Angry Family, when Debra freaks out to the teacher:  "Eileen, you have no idea what I go through."  I have her whole diatribe memorized.

So many great scenes.

 

 

[Bethany]

I love Debra's diatribe in the episode where Ray overhears her parents arguing about going to marriage counselling.

"If MY parents burned down an orphanage on Christmas Eve they still wouldn't be as bad as YOUR parents!"

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Elizabeth Anne said:

Oh my god, that woman "we have people to help you pack".  I don't know how many times I've seen that episode and yet I laugh out loud every time!

“It is now a one woman show.”

”One time he shouted ‘hit the monkey, win a cookie!”

(the non verbal impression of Frank eating the salami)

”Some of our residents have threatened to stop taking their medication.”

[Vanderboom]

15 hours ago, deaja said:

I don’t know what my favorite episode is but my favorite scene is from Not So Fast (Season 9, episode 2) where Ray and Debra listen to all the ways Frank and Marie have harmed the retirement village. 
 

 

The second I read this, I flashed back to the administrator imitating Frank gnawing on the bologna!