Star Trek: Deep Space Nine - General Discussion

[Prevailing Wind]

Yesterday, I watched the episode where Tom Riker steals the Defiant.  While he's pretending to be Will and Kira's taking him on a tour, they enter the Defiant, where O'Brien's working. Riker is quite hateful to O'Brien, who slinks off as though he deserved that.

I must have missed something in TNG. Why would Riker be so nasty to O'Brien?  They never explain it on DS9.

[Maverick]

There was no reason for the real Riker to act that way.  Tom knew O'Brien would start reminiscing as bout events on the Enterprise and if he did that his cover would be blown.  Acting like there was some rift between them prevented any conversation between the two that could trip Tom up.  O'Brien was obviously bewildered, but since Riker was a senior officer he had no choice but to leave as ordered.  O'Brien was still going to know something was off and probably would have contacted Geordi to find out what's going on but Tom has already stolen the Defiant.  He just needed to get O'Brien off the ship right then for his plan to work.  

[Prevailing Wind]

Well, this certainly explains why, in "Little Green Men," Nog pointed to the Great Lakes for where the invasion was going to occur...

https://www.thevintagenews.com/2021/06/24/lake-michigan-triangle/

[MSterling]

I listen to the Delta Flyers podcast with Robert Duncan McNeill and Garrett Wang. The newest episode has two new co-hosts, Terry Farrell and Armin Shimerman. They've started a recap and review of DS9 since they completed Voyager earlier this year. I like the addition of Farrell and Shimerman, they fit nicely into the format and they're interesting to listen to. And, this way Wang and McNeill can continue the podcast...

[blueray]

On 12/7/2023 at 11:52 PM, MSterling said:

I listen to the Delta Flyers podcast with Robert Duncan McNeill and Garrett Wang. The newest episode has two new co-hosts, Terry Farrell and Armin Shimerman. They've started a recap and review of DS9 since they completed Voyager earlier this year. I like the addition of Farrell and Shimerman, they fit nicely into the format and they're interesting to listen to. And, this way Wang and McNeill can continue the podcast...

If you are looking for a good DS9 podcast, check out the 7th rule. It's Cirroc Lofton (Jake Sisko) youtube channel, that he started with Aaron (Nog). They reviewed all of DS9 and are now reviewing TNG. They go really in depth of the show, and annualize each episode. As well as have different guests on, often other cast members or Ira. Not that they are completing against each other. But thought I'd shot it out as well.

[Trini]

Cross-posting since there isn't a general Star Trek media topic:

2024 in Star Trek history:

Quote

A lot—a lot—happens historically in Star Trek’s 2024, crucially important events that go on to not just shape Earth as it is in the early 21st century, but form foundational pillars for the contemporary Star Trek timeline. It’s a year we’ve heard about, and visited, multiple times across several Trek shows. So what’s exactly wild about it? Well, let us take a look through Trek’s past to find out... and perhaps, our future?

 

[wanderingstar]

The Bell Riots!!!!

Guess it's time for me to watch "Past Tense" again.

[Prevailing Wind]

I was just watching a season two Have Gun-Will Travel. At the end of the episode, a group of cavalrymen are riding off, and they all started singing "The Minstrel Boy."  I looked for Miles O'Brien, but he wasn't there. LOL.

[Prevailing Wind]

I'm watching Past Tense (which takes place in 2024!) and half-way through the second part, Bill Smitrovich asks his son if Mom and Jeannie are all right. Kid responds with "They're OK. They're with the Petersons."

...and I wondered if they were the ancestors of the Petersons that Molly O'Brien spends so much time with.

[MaryMitch]

Aww.... Vic Fontaine is but a holographic memory now 😩

James Darren, RIP

https://variety.com/2024/film/news/james-darren-gidget-moondoggie-star-trek-1236127756/

[wanderingstar]

Rest in power, Tony Todd.

[Annber03]

Popping into this thread - as stated in the "Behind the Times" thread elsewhere on this site, regarding older TV shows that we're just now discovering for the first time, I have recently started in on this show thanks to an online friend of mine. Up to now I had not seen any of the "Trek" series, what all I knew about this franchise was through general pop culture/online fandom conversations and various clips I might've seen of the original series in, like, TV retrospective documentaries aor something. So this series is literally my introduction to the "Trek" franchise (along with an episode of TNG that that same friend also showed me). 

And I am absolutely loving this series thus far. I just finished up season one this past week, so collective thoughts on that one thus far:

-The pilot two-parter was intense and did a great job of setting the tone and stage for the whole premise of the series. The tension between Sisko and Picard was perfectly done and a great way to highlight the sharp difference between this series and TNG (II may have only seen the one episode of TNG thus far, but based off both that episode and what I've read and heard about that show, I know that it has a very different vibe from DS9). Also, pretty bold choice to have Sisko going up against Picard, one of the most popular and beloved "Trek" characters (even before I watched any "Trek", I still knew who Picard was and was familiar with Patrick Stewart as an actor in general), and have his opinions and stances on everything going on be taken seriously and respected. 

Also, I'm not a baseball person at all, so I couldnt help being a bit amused at the constant metaphors involving that sport in the pilot :p. I do love Sisko being a baseball fan, though, and his nerdiness around it, to the point where he has a baseball in his office, is a charming and cute element of his character :). 

-The stuff with the prophets felt kind of trippy and out there in the pilot as well, but the way the season continued to touch on and expand that part of the story a little more helped make that aspect feel a little more grounded and added some interesting tensions to everything. Especially given their presence in this post-war setting, in an area that's still very fragile as it continues to rebuild. I also find Kira's connection to them intriguing, given her particular backstory and connections to Bajor.

-And that brings me to one of the two big things that really drew me into this show, all the political intrigue they're setting up here. It's fascinating. The tensions between the Bajorans and the Cardassians, the individuals and groups that are trying to take advantage of those tensions, the way the team is trying to bridge the gap and help ease those tensions and keep them from flaring up again, the shifting and questionable loyalties that might be lurking among some of the characters, both within the team and with some of the guest/recurring characters who pop in. I just really like how they're slowly laying the groundwork to build on those various aspects - I have heard about how serialized this show becomes and how some of these story arcs build and develop, so iI'm looking quite forwrard to seeing how everything that's been set up here will be expanded upon and developed further going forward. 

(Also, not to get too into the weeds here, but let's just say that the political aspect of this show is hitting especially hard right now, which is another reason I think I'm so drawn to and connecting with that part of the show as I am.)

-The other thing that drew me in and has me invested is, of course, the characters. I love a show with a strong ensemble cast and this one absolutely fits that bill. Sisko's relationship with his son Jake is incredibly endearing and touching, Jake's firendship with Nog  is cute and fun, Odo and Quark are a wonderful comedic duo, there's the already iconic connecton between Bashir and Garak - and they've only been in one episode together this first season! I also absolutely adore the dynamic between Sisko and Kira, how they're both very stubborn and always up for a good debate, and yet there is a strong and clear respect for each other that comes through. I love their one-on-one scenes where they get to have some heart to heart conversations about the various issues they're dealing with. Kira's interactions with Odo are fantastic, too, his rule-following self against her more rebellious spirit. 

And then on top of that each character is fleshed out individually, too. They've all got their respective roles within the team and the setting of the show, and it's been fun getting to know them. I also appreciate how they're all deeply flawed in so many ways and yet those flaws are a large part of what makes me care about and get invested in them. It's been fun getting to know these characters this season, and I'm excited to see what else the show has in store for them. 

And I'll finish off this rambling post with my top five episodes from this season:

1. Duet. God, this episode was powerful, to the point where it actually made me cry. Great showcase for Kira as a character, and I also especially appreciated how it felt so much like a classic "Twilight Zone" episode in many ways, in terms of how it touched on the themes it addressed. Marritza's monologue speeches were straight up Serling-esque in how they were written and acted, and that just added to my appreciation for this episode. 

2. Past Prologue: Again, a good episode for Kira, with her having to deal with her conflicted loyalties when Tahna shows up. And it's a great example of my comment above about how I love the interactions between her and Odo and her and Sisko, as each duo have some great scenes together this episode. 

Also, the whole plot with Bashir and Garak is a fun and entertaining contrast to the tension with Kira's storyline. The scene with their first meeting, and Bashir practically skipping aorund Ops in excitement about it afterward, is amazing XD. 

3. Dramatis Personae: This one was just a fun, trippy little episode :).  Again, strong "Twilight Zone" vibes here, with everyone acting all shifty and weird except for Odo, who's the lone sane guy trying to get everything back to normal. It was just a kick to see everyone acting a bit shady and creepy :D.  I know some people think an episode like this might work better in a latter season, when you know the characters better, but there is something fun about doing an episode like this in the first season of a show when you are still getting to know the characters, 'cause you can play a little more with the whole idea of how much of the weirdness is the character as we know them thus far and how much is the result of whatever strange things are going on. 

4. Dax: I just relly liked the moral quandry this episode set up, and it was an interesting look into Dax as a character as well. Her whole history with the host/worm stuff is a really intriguing element of her character, and I like how she's able to connect with Sisko through her connection to his old freind Curzon. I am curious which way the ruling might've gone for the trial in this episode, but obviously, I also understand why they didn't resolve it, so as to leave the viewers with something to debate and discuss and think about further. 

5. A Man Alone: I just really liked this episode for Odo. It was an interesting glimpse into his character and why he kinda keeps to himself as he does, and I also think it higlhlights one aspect of what made Auberjonois such a great actor. He has to do a lot of acting with his eyes on this show, given the particular makeup he has to wear for his character, and I thought this episode nicely highlighted that. The scene with him in his destroyed quarters while the mob's outside harassing him genuinely made me feel for him, and it was all due to Rene's quiet acting. 

The pilot deserves mention, too, of course, for reasons noted above, but I just wnated to focus on episodes that weren't a two-parter setup here. 

Anywho, so yeah, those are my thoughts on season one thus far - on to season two!

Edited February 4 by Annber03

[wanderingstar]

Annber03, I wish I could give your post +1000. I'm delighted for you that DS9 is your intro to Trek, which is very different from the experience of most fans. Agree with your top 5 episodes. Duet, in particular, is an all-timer, not just for Trek but for television in general.

The DS9 ensemble is one of the best ever, period. I'm so excited for you to see what comes in subsequent seasons. Please keep posting your reactions, comments, and questions. And welcome to the Trek family!

Edited February 2 by wanderingstar

[Annber03]

11 hours ago, wanderingstar said:

Annber03, I wish I could give your post +1000. I'm delighted for you that DS9 is your intro to Trek, which is very different from the experience of most fans. Agree with your top 5 episodes. Duet, in particular, is an all-timer, not just for Trek but for television in general.

The DS9 ensemble is one of the best ever, period. I'm so excited for you to see what comes in subsequent seasons. Please keep posting your reactions, comments, and questions. And welcome to the Trek family!

Yeah, from talking to my friend and reading a bit from other "Trek" fans online, it's always interesting to see how people got into this fandom and which show was their introduction into the franchise. I especially love the stories from people who grew up with these shows and watched them with their families, it's cool to see how this franchise can be a bonding experience for people like that. 

Another thing I really liked about "Duet" was how it kept this tension and intensity...and the episode basically just featured characters talking the entire time. This show has its action scenes, obviously, and those are definitely fun and exciting to watch,  but I really like how they can also bulid up so much genuine tension just through putting two (or more) characters in a room and letting them talk and debate with each other. Proof you don't have to go all out with big action sequences or explosions or whatever to keep people's attention and keep them on the edge of their seats. It's nice to see these stories getitng a chance to breathe, so you can properly absorb what's going on. I know people are os used to shorter seasons nowadays 'cause of streaming and whatnot, but I think a show like this is a good argument for the old-school style of doing things, and finding a good balance between serialized storytelling and episodic storytelling. 

I appreciate your kind words and welcome, thank you :D. I will absolutely be back to share more thoughts as I continue on, it's nice to have a place to be able to discuss this show with other fans. 

[Anduin]

DS9 Theme but the theme is coming from DS9 Ops! Good one. :)

[Annber03]

Back again, having wrapped up season 2...

...and what a good season this was. You can definitely see this show getting a lot more comfortable with itself and its general premise, and the characters are getting really settled in and the cast is getting far more comfortable with thier roles. Again, so many great character dynamics being explored this season - alongside the usual favorites like Odo/Quark, Bashir/Garak, Dax/Kria, etc, we also get to see Miles connecting more with Kira, Bashir, and Sisko, more exploration of Odo and Kria's history with each other, Odo and Dax got to ahve a few fun adventures, as did Garak and Quark (chaotic enough on their own, absolute mayhem when interacting :p)... I really like seeing more of that variety, and I also appreciate how balanced the focus is among the characters in general.

I also love how we continue to learn more about the team, be it through flashbacks or their day to day interactions with each other or their home lives/interactions with their families. Or, in the case of Dax, with ancient warrior clans. It really says something about this show where half the cast isn't even in an episode and yet the episode can still be entertaining - "Blood Oath" was a great example of that in action. 

And on a grander scale, this season's been fun in terms of how it's expanded the general universe. There's still the main storyline of the Bajorans and Cardassians and the Federation, but we've also gotten to learn about these little splinter groups - the Marquis, the religious group in "Sanctuary", the (very cult-y) group in "Paradise"... It makes this whole world feel mroe lived in and vast, and adds to the tensions between the main three groups in a variety of ways. And, again, it's another great way to explore some of the issues surrounding the fallout from the war and all the politics involved. I especially liked "Sanctuary" in that regard because of the conflict it caused for Kira, and the ending of that one actually got me emotional. 

I also love how the show slowly built up some of the bigger drama yet to come - sprinkling in the referendes to the Dominion, the Marquis rearing their heads as they did, the further development of characters like Dukat and Kai Winn as formidable antagonists. I'm excited to see how these groups and people continue to play a role in whatever comes next - I know some of them become especially prominent in latter seasons, but not how, so it'll be fun to watch all of that unfold .

You can also tell how much more comfortable and settled this show became this season because of how many two/three parters they had :D. The whole siege three parter at the beginning of the season was a great way to start things off with a bang, and a good way to set up some of the bigger tensions and drama throughout the season. 

And with that, on to my "favorite episodes" list from this season: 

1. The Wire: This one will always have a special place in my heart, both because it's a fantastic episode in and of itself and because it's the episode that my friend showed me and which evidently intrigued me enough to be like, "Hm. I need to check out this show further." :). When I first watched this episode, I was fascinated by the whole back and forth with Bashir and Garak, their whoel dynamic and interplay, and the "Elim" reveal was a great twist that threw me for a loop :D. 

Having watched it again within its proper context, taking into account all I've learned these past two seasons about the history of Cardassia and Garak's past (murky and questionable though it still is in so many ways), and having seen more of Bashir and Garak's dynamic develop and play out, it really adds to my enjoyment and appreciation of this episode. I absolutely love the way their literary debate at the beginning, abuut duty to the individual versus duty to the state, sets up the premise for the episode (and hell, it's a debate that can apply to all the characters on the show in general). I love the lengths Bashir is willing to go to help Garak in such a difficult time, the compassion and dedication to him, both as his patient and as his friend. I feel like Garak seems to bring out a particular maturity in Bashir, and it's been fun to see their friendship deepen as it has over these first two seasons. 

I also love how Garak's behavior this episode can be attributed to so many things - he's an addict, and addicts can and do lie to get what they want . He's got a questionable past that he won't/can't divulge too much about, for a whole host of reasons, so of course he's got stories and lies at the ready. I'm inclined to think there's a kernel of truth in all of his stories, and also a bunch of BS, but I've seen some fantastic arguments either way in online discussion about this episode (seriously, the amount of meta and analysis around this episode that's out there is amazing :D). 

And I love that this episode highlights one of the many things that makes this show so great. Not only are the main characters well developed and complex, but so are all the guest and recurring characters, like Garak. It was a very wise decision indeed on the show's part to bring Robinson back as a recurring character, and this episode is a great showcase for why he's one of the more memorable and fascinating characters this station's ever seen. 

I could go on, honestly, but yeah. This episode is a fan favorite for a whole host of reasons, and I will happily agree with that consensus. 

2. Necessary Evil: I LOVE it when TV shows do their own take on film nori-style episodes. Some take a more comedic route, some, like this show, more dramatic, but either way, it's always a fun style of episode to play with, and this show's take was brilliant. I absolutely loved all the flashbacks to the past, when the station was still under Cardassian rule and Odo was still working for them, and getting to see the first time Odo, Kira, and Quark all met each other was a real treat. I also liked how the show managed to transition between the past and present without the transitiosn seeming jarring. It was all seamlessly done and allowed the episode to keep a good pace about it

The present day stuff with Odo and Kira, though. Just...so, ss good. I've really liked the dynamic between them thus far, with the way Odo's always kind of quietly looking out for Kira and the way she's not afraid to challenge him and yet also still values his opinion on weighty matters, and also seeks him out for advice when needed. And those aspects were so nicely handled here. That end scene between them is perfection in how it's written, acted, and filmed. 

I also loved Odo narrating the episode in only the way he could :D. 

3. Whispers: So, uh...yeah. This one kinda messed with my head. I mean that as a compliment, though - I've already talked before about how this show gives off strong "Twilight Zone" vibes to me, and boy, this episode would have felt right at home in that world. To the point where I almost feel like I should've seen the end reveal coming, and yet my jaw still dropped at the twist anyway. Such an inriguing, clever take on a common premise, and I enjoyed gettiing to follow along and try to catch all the clues hinting at something more sinister going on. They really did a great job of building the suspense and tension, and the claustrophobic nature of the setting just added to the creepiness of it all. This one will make for a fun rewatch to pick up on anything I hadn't noticed the first time around.

Also, I've been hearing about and seeing the "O'Brien Must Suffer" memes online, and boy, do I understand them even better now after this season :p. "Whispers" ,"Armageddon Game", "Tribunal"...the poor guy really has gone through it. I actually joked to my friend at one point halfway through the season that it was getting to where Miles wouldn't even be able to take a simple vacation without something going wrong. And then here comes "Tribunal" :p....

4. Cardassians: Again, a fun episode in terms of the interaction between Bashir and Garak, it was neat to see them team up as they did here (also, the scene where Bashir wakes Sisko in the middle of the night to ask for a runabout is hilarious XD. I love when Sisko is just so done with his team's nonsense), but I was really invested in the main storyilne itself, too. The first season touched so much on how Bajorans were dealing in the wake of the war, the trauma they suffered and their struggles to rebuild and so on. 

And now this season there's more exploration of the Cardassian side of things, both from those who were connected to the brutal regime (hi, Garak, Odo, and Dukat) and those who were innocent pawns and victims, like Rugal. It's been really interesting seeing how that planet's trying to deal with the atrocities it committed, and how it still struggles to break free of those more militaristic and shady elements, and the ripple effects those struggles have on those around them. I know the ending has caused some debate online, but also, I think that's a big part of this show's appeal, the fact that it doesn't wrap up all its storylines in neat, simple, properly resolved bows. 

5. Crossover: This one was just FUN :D. I'm not used to watching shows that do these kinds of mirror episodes, so it was a real kick to see how this show handled the concept. Evil Kira gave off serious "Michelle Pfeiffer as Catwoman" vibes, which I loved, Garak was even more brutal in this world, Quark was meek and polite... I feel like the "Dramatis Personae" episode from the first season was the show's way to test the waters for this kind of episode, it felt like a natural progression. 

Also, you just know that there are fics floating around online somewhere with Evil Kira hooking up with regular universe Kira XD. It takes some skill to manage to be so freaking flirty with yourself, but damn if Nana Visitor didn't pull it off! I do know the mirror universe thing will show up again in future seasons, so I'm excited to see what else they do with this whole setup. 

Excited to start in on season three now :D. 

Edited Saturday at 12:47 PM by Annber03

[wanderingstar]

Annber03, I'm so glad you're enjoying the show. Season 2 improves on season 1 in many ways (and I say that as someone who adores season 1). The 3-part opener is one of my favorites in the show. The show ramps up some of the long-term storylines in season 3, and I can't wait to hear your thoughts on the season overall.

[statsgirl]

The world building that this show does, with all the political, religious and various sects as well as the main groups, has much to say about our world today.

One thing that struck me this weekend is that the Federation and the Cardassians are the big players in this world and without the support of the Federation, Bajor as an entity would cease to exist no matter how hard or how long the Bajorans founds. It is because of the Federation that Bajor can be a free state to makes its own decisions.

[Annber03]

4 hours ago, wanderingstar said:

Annber03, I'm so glad you're enjoying the show. Season 2 improves on season 1 in many ways (and I say that as someone who adores season 1). The 3-part opener is one of my favorites in the show. The show ramps up some of the long-term storylines in season 3, and I can't wait to hear your thoughts on the season overall.

Yeah, I know people have talked about how the series starts off a bit bumpy and whatnot (and apprently that seems to be a trend with the "Trek" series in general, it seems common consensus is that most of them don't really hit their stride until a couple seasons in). But I'm with you, I thought there was a lot to like about season one and I like seeing how they continue to build on what was set up at the beginning of the series. I think they clearly had their themes set out nicely from the jump and it's been fun getting to see them expand on those themes further as time's gone on. 

(One of my favorite smaller moments from the three-part opener was the goodbye scene between Jake and Nog when people were evacuating the station. Their friendship is really cute and sweet, and I loved how they brought that back in a big way in the season 2 finale, with them and Sisko and Quark all going on that science field trip together. It was neat to see two families connecting like that and working together to get out of a really sticky situation. It was a really nice full circle moment. Jake and Sisko's bond continues to be one of the most touching elements of the show, too, I love their scenes together.)

And yeah, I've heard so much about how there's a LOT of big drama and tension coming up, so I am buckled in and ready for the ride :D.  Bring it on. Hehe. 

3 hours ago, statsgirl said:

The world building that this show does, with all the political, religious and various sects as well as the main groups, has much to say about our world today.

One thing that struck me this weekend is that the Federation and the Cardassians are the big players in this world and without the support of the Federation, Bajor as an entity would cease to exist no matter how hard or how long the Bajorans founds. It is because of the Federation that Bajor can be a free state to makes its own decisions.

Like I said in an earlier post, I don't think it's a coincidence that I'm connecting with this show at this particular point and time, given the way the real world's been going lately. The show has definitely been a very cathartic watch for me in that respect. 

I really like the way they set up the tension between Bajor and the Federation, too. Like you said, the Federation is there to help Bajor recover and rebuild, so I like getting to see the way the two factions connect and form their alliance as they do. But  also can totally understand Bajorans' wariness to connect with another government entity that will oversee the daily goings-ons within their planet, given everything they've already been through. I appreciate that they touch on some of those tensions, too - and the fact this show is set just shortly after the end of this big war makes those tensions that much more raw and heightened, which really adds to the drama and conflict. I like how everyone's perspectives on this show can be sympathetic one moment and worthy of critcism the next, it makes the conflicts that much more realistic and believable. 

[SVNBob]

18 hours ago, Annber03 said:

"Blood Oath" was a great example of that in action. 

Blood Oath is also a great bit of universe continuity for people who have seen TOS.  Since you haven't yet, I hesitate to say much more.

[Annber03]

And now you have me intrigued :D! That's neat - I imagine those sorts of continuity nods and connections had to be a thrill for longtime "Trek" fans. Nice way to pay tribute as well, I like how it sounds like all these shows in the franchise managed to put their own spin on the premise while still acknowledging and respecting those who came before. 

But yeah, I definitely want to check out the original series at some point, too, so it'll be fun to see how it connects to the DS9 world when the time comes. 

[SVNBob]

3 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

But yeah, I definitely want to check out the original series at some point, too, so it'll be fun to see how it connects to the DS9 world when the time comes. 

May I suggest you take a small break from DS9 after finishing season 4, and watch the 3 seasons of TOS then.  Then pick back up on DS9 with the start of season 5.

Those that know will know.