The Starling City Times: News and Media about Arrow

[Ann Mack]

Just bringing this back for further examination: BTW the writer expresses her thoughts thoroughly and brutally in some cases.

 

Stop Blaming Arrow's Olicity For the Shortcomings of Laurel Lance

By Amie Marie Bohannon ⋅ Posted on May 11th, 2015 at 5:13pm ⋅ Last edit on May 12th, 2015

 

http://moviepilot.com/posts/2920623

 

Insomnia can't sleep right now so I'm surfing. I need to get some sleep badly!

[wonderwall]

I finally watched that video and a couple of things just stood out as pure bullshit to me:

 

KC:

• Saying that Laurel saw Oliver/Felicity's relationship blossom. That's actually false.
• Felicity inspires Laurel (Idk it's a nice thought, but I haven't seen this anywhere on screen ever)
• No KC, Oliver isn't the love of Laurel's life. Please have some respect for your character

EBR: 

• Saying that Felicity/Laurel are similar thinkers emotionally which... no. 

[bijoux]

Vigilante Tech for Dummies. 

 

Crime-Fighting in The Cyber World 101

 

Track This & Search That

And then you know she'd give them a pop quiz while there was a lull in the criminal activity.

[lemotomato]

On the plus side, we have confirmation that EBR and KC think that Laurel and Felicity are good friends. So... Felicity's anger and grief in the flashforward limo scene is no longer limited to her only feeling that strongly about her mom and Diggle. She would be reacting that way if it were Laurel in the grave too. Yay?

[looptab]

The silver lining is this interview has pulled us back a bit from the endless grave speculation in the Spoilers thread. So, thanks, Katie Cassidy!

[Primal Slayer]

""I feel like Laurel has picked up on Felicity's tech skills" say what KC?

It isn't false. Laurel did learn how to secretly tag someone and use the computer to locate them. But just as they all backstories for their characters, not every single thing will be depicted on screen.

[Velocity23]

Wow i must say KC makes LL seem so pathetic.

 

And she must have picked up up in offscreenville like her fighting skills.

[Sakura12]

The fact that KC is playing Laurel still in love with Oliver really shows me that Laurel needs to leave town. She should follow Sara's footsteps to go find herself. Hanging around her ex-boyfriend who's most current ex was her sister, again and is engaged to another woman is not healthy if she still considers him the love of her life. Also if she wants to be an equal hero she should go to a city that doesn't have a hero. all preferably offscreen. 

[dtissagirl]

Furthermore, I don't think KC plays it that way either. 95 times of 100 I feel like she just thinks Oliver is a jackass. Not in the repressed feelings sort of way, just a straight up you, jackass way.

 

I totally agree with this, but I'm honestly not sure if it's intentional. The biggest feeling I get from Oliver and Laurel whenever they're in the same scene together is the actors' frustration that they don't click onscreen, and it shows. I feel like KC thinks Oliver is a jackass, and Steve wishes Laurel would go away and stay there.

[AyChihuahua]

I totally agree with this, but I'm honestly not sure if it's intentional. The biggest feeling I get from Oliver and Laurel whenever they're in the same scene together is the actors' frustration that they don't click onscreen, and it shows. I feel like KC thinks Oliver is a jackass, and Steve wishes Laurel would go away and stay there.

I so agree. By all indications both actors get along fine IRL, regardless of their horrendous onscreen anti-chem. But yeah, I think both are frustrated by the fact that they have such anti-chem, which is now just a vicious anti-chem circle, and I think each really dislikes the other's alter ego. 

[dtissagirl]

I don't even believe getting along IRL affects on-screen chemistry. And sometimes actors who actively hate each other IRL have insane chemistry. That's the ~magic~ of acting chemistry, it's not something that anyone can do anything about it.

 

It's just super extremely rare to have this kind of black hole of anti-chemistry happening. And even rarer that TPTB don't immediately nip it in the bud by recasting, or sending one of the actors off to Mandyville as soon as the story allows it. I mean, Arrow did go out of its way to minimize the amount of screentime Steve and KC have had together, but it's really fucking weird that they still try it, and still NOTHING HAPPENS. The black hole of suck is stronger than ever.

Edited February 2, 2016 by dtissagirl

[AyChihuahua]

I don't even believe getting along IRL affects on-screen chemistry. And sometimes actors who actively hate each other IRL have insane chemistry. That's the ~magic~ of acting chemistry, it's not something that anyone can do anything about it.

Oh, I agree two actors can hate each other IRL and have great onscreen chem (I think that was the case for The Notebook, Dirty Dancing, and Gilmore Girls), BUT I think it's more likely in pure numbers for them not to care for each other IRL if they do have terrible onscreen chem, and from what I can tell no one on set seems to hate KC (although DR has sure been snarky about her acting abilities at least once).  

 

And yeah, they really need to just boot her. This is Oliver's story, so having one character the writers have to mostly keep isolated from him bc the chemistry is so bad is such a terrible idea.

Edited February 2, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[looptab]

Gilmore Girls??

[NumberCruncher]

It's just super extremely rare to have this kind of black hole of anti-chemistry happening. And even rarer that TPTB don't immediately nip it in the bud by recasting, or sending one of the actors off to Mandyville as soon as the story allows it. I mean, Arrow did go out of its way to minimize the amount of screentime Steve and KC have had together, but it's really fucking weird that they still try it, and still NOTHING HAPPENS. The black hole of suck is stronger than ever.

Call me crazy, but I'm probably the only one here who's fine with KC staying on the show and this is just another reason why. TPTB can't get around the total lack of chemistry between KC and SA (and they know it) so as long as she stays on the show, I don't really worry all that much about them trying O/L again as a couple. I'd prefer her to stay since Laurel's almost an afterthought at this point as opposed to TPTB cutting KC loose so they can bring on a new actress in yet another incarnation of a BC-like character so that they can somehow fulfill their precious comic canon pairing.

[bijoux]

Gilmore Girls??

 

I remember stories about Lauren Graham and Scott Patterson hating each other. Or at least her hating him.

[looptab]

I remember stories about Lauren Graham and Scott Patterson hating each other. Or at least her hating him.

Oh, okay. Wow. I had no idea. Thanks :)

[AyChihuahua]

Oh, okay. Wow. I had no idea. Thanks :)

Supposedly that was why they hardly ever kissed after they got together. 

[dtissagirl]

 I'd prefer her to stay since Laurel's almost an afterthought at this point as opposed to TPTB cutting KC loose so they can bring on a new actress in yet another incarnation of a BC-like character so that they can somehow fulfill their precious comic canon pairing.

 

I had never heard this rationale before. How likely would that be, I have no idea, but just thinking about the insane amounts of pre-rejection this new actress and new character would have is making me tired.

 

And while KC/Laurel staying on the show as an afterthought is an infinite source of amusement for me -- she's a really expensive afterthought. I kinda would really really like Arrow to have some extra 50-60K per episode to hire more extras and build new sets.

[NumberCruncher]

I had never heard this rationale before. How likely would that be, I have no idea, but just thinking about the insane amounts of pre-rejection this new actress and new character would have is making me tired.

Well we do know how much the EPs loooooove creating as much drama as possible and tend to bring on new characters specifically for that purpose so I wouldn't put it past them at this point. Look how fast they brought BR when they realized that A) they could showcase a shiny new superhero origin story and B) create romantic angst in the process.

 

And while KC/Laurel staying on the show as an afterthought is an infinite source of amusement for me -- she's a really expensive afterthought. I kinda would really really like Arrow to have some extra 50-60K per episode to hire more extras and build new sets.

Except they'd likely just use the money to...bring another another masked hero rather than spend the money on the actual production of the show. How much money did they waste creating Ray's ATOM suit again?

[bijoux]

I kinda would really really like Arrow to have some extra 50-60K per episode to hire more extras and build new sets.

 

Do not toy with my emotions. Although, even when they do get extras, they let it go to waste. 4x07 fundraiser, I'm looking at you.

[Primal Slayer]

Even though KC sees Oliver as the love of her life doesn't mean that she/Laurel are moping around waiting for him to come back to her. Laurel has accepted that Oliver has found his happiness and supports his new relationship. She likes the person he has become and probably the man she knew he could be. But until Laurel gets a full time love interest, having that thought would be hard to get rid of. She needs a new guy in her life to allow her to find a new happiness in the love area.

But the writers are finally taking the time to have Laurel/Oliver rekindle a somewhat meaningful friendship which KC/SA do fine with.

Edited February 2, 2016 by Primal Slayer

[dtissagirl]

Except they'd likely just use the money to...bring another another masked hero rather than spend the money on the actual production of the show. How much money did they waste creating Ray's ATOM suit again?

 

If I may let the small % of me that thinks Laurel is the one dying talk for a second: they're already doing it --

by bringing in both Vixen and Cupid in the next few episodes, as soft tryouts

. But if they make either of them regulars, it won't cost as much as KC does, so there'll be money in the bank for other things.

[looptab]

Bring in Lyla and let the dead weight go!

[apinknightmare]

Even though KC sees Oliver as the love of her life doesn't mean that she/Laurel are moping around waiting for him to come back to her. Laurel has accepted that Oliver has found his happiness and supports his new relationship. She likes the person he has become and probably the man she knew he could be. But until Laurel gets a full time love interest, having that thought would be hard to get rid of.

It would be hard to find someone new if you're thinking a guy who's in love with and getting married to someone else is the love of your life. Especially when that guy treated you like dirt when you were together.

[looptab]

Supposedly that was why they hardly ever kissed after they got together.

I didn't even notice that while I watched, but now that I think about it, there weren't that many memorable kisses. I just remember the first one - interruped by Kirk, hee. Now I wish I didn't know, hahah.

 

(Sorry everyone for derailing the conversation, this doesn't belong here).

Edited February 2, 2016 by looptab

[bijoux]

Bring in Lyla and let the dead weight go!

 

You know, I adore Lyla and want her to be on the show more often than she is, but seeing this in writing, I don't really think her character would work if she were in every episode. However, if Quentin bites it, thus the team losing their police connection, Lyla would work really well as an ally, especially since the head of ARGUS spot is wide open at the moment.

[Chaser]

It would be hard to find someone new if you're thinking a guy who's in love with and getting married to someone else is the love of your life. Especially when that guy treated you like dirt when you were together.

And its been eight years since coupledom and at least three years since they hooked up. In the meantime they haven't been close and Laurel has watched him be with Felicity, leave with Felicity, move in with Felicity, ask Felicity to marry him.....

 

It's just a little sad.

[bijoux]

Twitter tells me EBR made this face when KC said that Oliver was still the love of Laurel's life. True or not? To be honest, it was not all that good of an interview and I'm to lazy to rewatch it and find out for myself.

 

[apinknightmare]

Well, it's also kind of sad to me, because what part of this relationship would Laurel be basing this "love of her life" theory on? When he was cheating on her? When he was skittish about moving in together? When he ran off with her sister? I don't blame KC for angling for O/L to get back together, but the love of her life stance is ridiculous.

[dtissagirl]

I'm now wondering if Laurel ~became~ Sara because Sara was who Oliver was dating around the time Laurel figured out who Oliver really was. And Laurel had zero idea about how deep were the feelings between Oliver and Felicity at that point, so she SWFed the wrong woman to get Oliver back.

 

Edited February 2, 2016 by dtissagirl

[looptab]

I don't know if the expression 'love of one's life' has other connotations in English, but I have always used it to mean 'the person one has loved the most'. So I can see Laurel thinking that of Oliver, no matter how big of a douche he has been to her.

Why keep dwelling on that, and not hoping her character moves on to someone else who could really be, and above all why KC would be very proud and happy of these circumstances, though, it's a mistery.

(Edited to clarify).

Edited February 2, 2016 by looptab

[Carrie Ann]

Generally in English (at least in the US?), the phrase tends to indicate you believe that person was, is, and will always be the great love of your life. That's why it's sad that KC would believe that for Laurel, because the Ollie we have seen on the show and the relationship they had was not worthy of that designation, and it indicates that Laurel would be basically fatalistic in her thinking about any future dating options. That none could measure up to Ollie Queen, Douchebag King.

[dtissagirl]

It might be just because it's gotta sting that KC was sold on it -- that L/O were the soulmate-y type of couple -- and she's said that many many many times before, so she doesn't want to take what she said back. She's sticking to her word, and giving it a new spin.

 

The show doesn't support what's she saying in anyway, so it just ends up being baffling. Or funny, if you're me.

[looptab]

Generally in English (at least in the US?), the phrase tends to indicate you believe that person was, is, and will always be the great love of your life. That's why it's sad that KC would believe that for Laurel, because the Ollie we have seen on the show and the relationship they had was not worthy of that designation, and it indicates that Laurel would be basically fatalistic in her thinking about any future dating options. That none could measure up to Ollie Queen, Douchebag King.

Oh, okay. There's a slight difference :) Still agree on the sadness of it all and on finding confusing KC not hoping for a better romantic outcome for her character.

[Chaser]

A part of me would love someone to ask her why she still feels Oliver is the love of Laurel's life, just so I can hear her justify the belief in an in-show context.

 

However the larger part of me hopes no one ever asks her because I know it's all external motivation and that is just awkward.

[looptab]

"Because they have such a strong bond..they've been through so much and have known each other all their lives...and now he sees her like an equal..he respects her..Laurel is A STRONG WOMAN".

[tv echo]

TV Fanatic's roundtable discussion of 411 (surprisingly positive about Felicity/Gothlicity)...

 

Arrow Round Table: Overwatch was Overdue!
Carissa Pavlica at February 1, 2016 9:30 am.
http://www.tvfanatic.com/2016/02/arrow-round-table-overwatch-was-overdue/

What did you think of Felicity's struggle with her Goth self to get back on her feet (so to speak)?
Jay: This was the best part of the episode. Last season, when Roy, Laurel and Diggle were figuring out why they were protecting the city without the Arrow, Felicity was more supporting than struggling. I like that she got her chance to find herself and find her reasons for being on Team Arrow.
Hank: I also enjoyed watching Emily Bett Rickards shine playing opposite herself. She did a phenomenal job and gave Stephen Amell tons of meaty material to work with elevating his performance as well. This episode is probably one of my favorites of the season thanks to those scenes.
Meg: I love Goth Felicity! I hope she gets back to her roots one day. EBR did an amazing job playing both versions. Felicity's past is very interesting, and I hope we get to see more.
Caralynn: Goth Felicity was so catty and snarky! I loved seeing this different side of her, and I thought the hallucination was a neat trick to do this and have Felicity work through her issues. I also thought it was really important that she did this on her own. Oliver can tell her that she's still a valuable team member all day long, but it was clear she needed to do some soul-searching and come to that realization herself.
Carissa: I really loved Goth Felicity. I hope firing up her photo doesn't mean she's gone forever, but shelved until she's needed again. This was even better than Felicity's actual origin story, as it gave her purpose and drive from inside. It worked really well. I bet Emily had a lot of fun playing both sides of Felicity digging at the same problem, as well.
*  *  *
Felicity got a codename. What are your thoughts on Overwatch?
Jay: I'm glad it wasn't Oracle. Felicity is a unique character, and she deserved her own unique codename, and it's a bit disappointing that they went about it this way, but nevertheless, it's about time.
Hank: I loved the shout-out to Oracle, but let's be honest Overwatch doesn't have the same kind of ring to it. Has Felicity earned her Team Arrow codename? Absofreakinlutely! I just think she deserved something a bit more clever. As far as Felicity definitely not being Oracle, I'm fine with it, though I would like to see all the Birds of Prey together on Arrow at some point. I want Felicity out of that wheelchair ASAP as well.
Meg: I am glad she got a code name! But I wish it had more of her spunk in it. Oliver should leave the naming to Cisco on The Flash. Overwatch is a lame name for her. What about a computer centric name? Hopefully in the future?
Caralynn: Meh. The scene where Oliver first called her by the new code name was super cute, but I agree with Meg. He should've called in Cisco on that one.
Carissa: It was beyond time she got one, but she deserved something inspired. Overwatch just isn't. There are simply too many useless comic characters so all the good words are used. That stinks.

Edited February 2, 2016 by tv echo

[Velocity23]

Edited February 2, 2016 by Velocity23

[tv echo]

This article about an archery contest in Las Vegas contained several Arrow mentions...

 

Archery enthusiasts bring skills straighter than 'Arrow' to Las Vegas Shoot
By Ron Kantowski February 1, 2016 - 2:18pm
http://www.reviewjournal.com/opinion/columns-blogs/ron-kantowski/archery-enthusiasts-bring-skills-straighter-arrow-las-vegas

This was Las Vegas Shoot 2016, billed as the world's largest archery tournament. More than 3,000 bow-and-arrow types from South Dakota and elsewhere competed.
 

Oliver Queen would have loved this.
 

Oliver Queen is a character in the DC Comics and now on television. His (not so) secret identity is the Green Arrow, or on TV, just "Arrow." Arrow is a total badass. He wears a dark green hood and a mask and chin stubble, and he fights crime in Starling City by shooting arrows at bad guys and exhibiting Bruce Lee-like skills in the martial arts.
 

(He also has a lot of girlfriends, though my wife would prefer he settle down with Felicity Smoak, his leggy, computer savvy-sidekick from Las Vegas, who feared she was destined to become a cocktail waitress if she didn't enroll at MIT.)
*  *  *
"Archery's precision comes from the human element," Cull said. "You have to be stable. If you're under pressure like that, with moving objects, it becomes more difficult, obviously. It's Hollywood, but a lot of things are possible with a bow (and arrow)."
 

Cull said he has seen only a few episodes of "Arrow" but added it has been a shot in the arm for archery, in the manner "The Hunger Games" at the movies was a shot in the arm.
 

Juan Carlos Holgado, the 1992 Olympic gold medalist in archery from the Extremadura region of Spain near Portugal, said he has seen every episode of all three seasons of "Arrow.
*  *  *
There are many things they do in Hollywood that are fantasy. Shooting so many arrows, so fast with accuracy, and using the bow to hit back ... I would say there is lot of fantasy there. But I love the show as you do. I love the idea to promote (archery) through these kind of movies."

Edited February 2, 2016 by tv echo

[Menrva]

"Because they have such a strong bond..they've been through so much and have known each other all their lives...and now he sees her like an equal..he respects her..Laurel is A STRONG WOMAN".

See, this is what bugs me a lot about LL. I get the impression that KC sees LL as strong because now she wears a mask and fights crime, as though physical strength somehow also gives her strength of character. And that's not really the case. Being physically strong can boost your self-confidence, but it doesn't necessarily make you a better person. I would imagine that if LL really was confident and strong, she wouldn't carry a torch for a man who treated her badly in the past and has shown no interest in rekindling a romance in the present. She should feel good about herself because of what she's accomplished, not because a man loves her. Now, I don't personally feel that LL has accomplished very much on  a personal level, but since she lives in a universe where her choices make sense, my opinion counts for little. 

[Primal Slayer]

It would be hard to find someone new if you're thinking a guy who's in love with and getting married to someone else is the love of your life. Especially when that guy treated you like dirt when you were together.

Laurel was opening herself up to Tommy before he died so if she is willing to open herself up to a new guy, she at least tries to move on with her love life and is able to get a new soul mate.

She knows she won't be with him and isn't holding on to any sort notion, she just sees him as the guy she thought she would end up. Her supporting Olicity shows that she isn't hung up on him.

Edited February 2, 2016 by Primal Slayer

[looptab]

See, this is what bugs me a lot about LL. I get the impression that KC sees LL as strong because now she wears a mask and fights crime, as though physical strength somehow also gives her strength of character. And that's not really the case. Being physically strong can boost your self-confidence, but it doesn't necessarily make you a better person. I would imagine that if LL really was confident and strong, she wouldn't carry a torch for a man who treated her badly in the past and has shown no interest in rekindling a romance in the present. She should feel good about herself because of what she's accomplished, not because a man loves her. Now, I don't personally feel that LL has accomplished very much on a personal level, but since she lives in a universe where her choices make sense, my opinion counts for little.

ITA. That's exactly the aspect I was making fun of. Who cares if I'm a doormat, I can throw a punch so I'm strong!!!

Okay, well, if it works for you..:/

[Ceylon5]

Twitter tells me EBR made this face when KC said that Oliver was still the love of Laurel's life. True or not? To be honest, it was not all that good of an interview and I'm to lazy to rewatch it and find out for myself.

 

 

This is just her "politely listening to Katie ramble" face - she had the same expression throughout Katie's whole answer, which started with how happy Laurel was to see her friends happy, and how wonderful she thinks Felicity is, through the soul mate part and out the other end.  She then finally (kindly) put Katie out of her misery by saying something to the effect that Laurel has reinvented herself now.  It was a super awkward question (essentially asking who they wanted Oliver to end up with) to ask these two together, and they both answered somewhat awkwardly as a result.

[looptab]

What's funny is that (the last time I checked) the majority of the comments were 'Kill them both!' Or 'I'd bang them both!'

It was a strange interview, with little to no amount of significant content.

[statsgirl]

The comments section at ign are really horrible. Even Eric Goldman has said that he avoids them and would rather communicate over twitter.

[foreverevolving]

I didn't watch the interview, what was EBR reaction (if you can caps it I will love you) to KC proclaim that Oliver was still Laurel soul mate (or whatever she said).

 

ETA: never mind, I really should have read the entire page before posting

Edited February 2, 2016 by foreverevolving

[apinknightmare]

Laurel was opening herself up to Tommy before he died so if she is willing to open herself up to a new guy, she at least tries to move on with her love life and is able to get a new soul mate.

She knows she won't be with him and isn't holding on to any sort notion, she just sees him as the guy she thought she would end up. Her supporting Olicity shows that she isn't hung up on him.

Didn't she dump Tommy the second she thought Oliver was willing to get back together with her? And it doesn't seem like she's dated anyone since. Even though it has nothing to do with actual show reasons, I just think it's incredibly sad to hold up the Oliver she was in a relationship as the love of anyone's life. Especially her, since he treated her so terribly.

[kismet]

I'm now wondering if Laurel ~became~ Sara because Sara was who Oliver was dating around the time Laurel figured out who Oliver really was. And Laurel had zero idea about how deep were the feelings between Oliver and Felicity at that point, so she SWFed the wrong woman to get Oliver back.

 

And if LL stays on for s5, perhaps you have just written & predicted her storyline. I too joke and yet I don't. :)

[wonderwall]

Didn't she dump Tommy the second she thought Oliver was willing to get back together with her? And it doesn't seem like she's dated anyone since. Even though it has nothing to do with actual show reasons, I just think it's incredibly sad to hold up the Oliver she was in a relationship as the love of anyone's life. Especially her, since he treated her so terribly.

 

I thought Tommy broke up with Laurel because he thought she'd break up with him anyways and get back together with Oliver... which, having sex with him sort of confirmed Tommy's suspicions so...

[statsgirl]

You're both right. Tommy dumped her because he thought she'd get back together with Oliver if she had the chance, Oliver encouraged her to fight for Tommy so she decided she was going to, but then Tommy told her Oliver was still interested. When Oliver confirmed that, it was Tommy who?