The Starling City Times: News and Media about Arrow

[tangerine95]

I really don't know there the pregnant and lost the baby as well as the ablity to have kids is coming from.I feel like they would have had the kid storyline revolve around the actual kid or Oliver as a father or introduced the issue of if they want kids,if they wanted to do this storyline.Instead the whole thing is based on Oliver lying and the kid and fatherhood are barely a factor in it.I really don't think they're doing that.

[AyChihuahua]

Good grief.  It's not bad enough that 13% think she was unknowingly pregnant and lost the baby but another 23% think not only did she lose the baby but now can never have children. 

This fandom is REALLY into melodrama. A lot of fics center on the death, preferably under terrible/painful/decapitation-y/rapey circumstances, of Felicity, so as to ramp up Oliver's manpain. Comparatively few are about Oliver dying and Felicity being sad, bc if someone dies and there's no manpain, who cares, amiright?

 

It's just going to be temp paralysis. (1) I'll never believe Felicity isn't a birth control shot/IUD girl, and (2) miscarriage/infertility is too mundane/sad for a comic book show. 

I really don't know there the pregnant and lost the baby as well as the ablity to have kids is coming from.I feel like they would have had the kid storyline revolve around the actual kid or Oliver as a father or introduced the issue of if they want kids,if they wanted to do this storyline.Instead the whole thing is based on Oliver lying and the kid and fatherhood are barely a factor in it.I really don't think they're doing that.

I had an argument with someone about this recently. She is convinced the kid was introduced out of a sincere desire to show Oliver as a father, which to me indicates a genuine break with reality, as that makes no sense at all. First of all, the kid ain't on the show. If they were going to show Oliver being a father, the #1 requirement is OLIVER BEING SHOWN BEING A FATHER. Second, the kid wouldn't be a secret. We'd see Digg react to it and give advice, Thea being an excited aunt, Felicity being an excited/nervous future stepmother, Laurel being upset and then bonding with the kid, etc. One of the few things I agree with jbfuffyangel about is that the BM and Spawn are, very clearly, romantic stalls. IMO grotesquely stupid romantic stalls that ruin Oliver as a viable romantic interest for Felicity, but nevertheless, just stalls. They are entirely without purpose as actual characters, and are, quite likely, never going to appear again.

Edited December 29, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[tangerine95]

Yeah its very clear it has nothing to do with Oliver as a father and everything to do with his relationship with Felicity and stalling that relationship.No time was spent on Oliver as a father or developing the kid and baby mama as actual characters.They will totally become offscreen references once the drama is done imo.

[BkWurm1]

I was talking to someone that thinks the one thing Arrow is really lacking and the BM story was set up to fix was kids as a part of the story.  I could ALMOST understand if they wanted to write in another teenager (like 16 or 17 - I loved Sin) but a ten year old?  What is the logic there? 

 

This fandom is REALLY into melodrama.

 

I'm beginning to see that, lol.  When there was all that spec about Felicity drinking water in the crossover the timing made a certain amount of sense since BM was going to pop up but now it would just be randomly heaping it on. 

[AyChihuahua]

I was talking to someone that thinks the one thing Arrow is really lacking and the BM story was set up to fix was kids as a part of the story.  I could ALMOST understand if they wanted to write in another teenager (like 16 or 17 - I loved Sin) but a ten year old?  What is the logic there? 

 

I'm beginning to see that, lol.  When there was all that spec about Felicity drinking water in the crossover the timing made a certain amount of sense since BM was going to pop up but now it would just be randomly heaping it on. 

No one has yet pointed out one single adult show that didn't start with kids but was improved by the addition of kids. It's pretty much a truism at this point that kids on adult shows (other than shows such as Parenthood that started out with them) ruin everything. The only one that wasn't ruined by adding a kid was Friends, bc it pretty much ignored the kids' existence.

 

And yeah, there's OMG SHE'S DRINKING A CLEAR LIQUID SHE'S PREGNANT AND WILL MISCARRY!!!; there's she gives herself up to DD for gang rape to keep DD from outing Oliver, bc once she's his gang-raped captive, DD has reason to keep his word...why?; there's Felicity decapitated by RAG in front of Oliver bc she dared to try to save him and women should be punished for not following orders; there's Oliver's and Felicity's kid is kidnapped by MM to become the new RAG and he kills Oliver in front of Felicity...etc., etc. It's ridiculous and absurd. Like hey, the show is idiotically melodramatic and angsty already, let's turn that ish up to 11!

 

I don't understand how any of this is fun, but I like my tv shows to be enjoyable, not misery-inducing.

[BkWurm1]

And yeah, there's OMG SHE'S DRINKING A CLEAR LIQUID SHE'S PREGNANT AND WILL MISCARRY!!!; there's she gives herself up to DD for gang rape to keep DD from outing Oliver, bc once she's his gang-raped captive, DD has reason to keep his word...why?; there's Felicity decapitated by RAG in front of Oliver bc she dared to try to save him and women should be punished for not following orders; there's Oliver's and Felicity's kid is kidnapped by MM to become the new RAG and he kills Oliver in front of Felicity...etc., etc. It's ridiculous and absurd. Like hey, the show is idiotically melodramatic and angsty already, let's turn that ish up to 11!

 

Misery porn isn't my cup of tea. 

[Primal Slayer]

Arrow/Nikita/The Walking Dead/Originals all introduced babies into the show and have been fine. What do they do with the kid? Not much which is why it works, majority of the time spent with the child is off screen, so even if they introduced Olivers kid "full time" into the show, I don't see it changing things unless they push him to the front of the show. I have to believe that Oliver knows that he, more then anyone is not ready to raise a kid at all due to his job unless he or Felicity retire or go part-time. He would rather have the kid raised by his grandparents (if they are good people) first I would hope.

[Starfish35]

Haven't seen Nikita or The Walking Dead, but I don't think it can be said they've brought a kid onto Arrow yet....he's only appeared once. He's not a regular character or even recurring regular character yet. And Originals doesn't count because the premise of the show, at least in the first season, revolved around that child. It wasn't an "added later" situation.

Edited December 29, 2015 by Starfish35

[Primal Slayer]

Diggle has a child, that is introducing a baby into the show for me. The kid of The Originals isn't even seen that much and they still are able to tell plenty of sort of compelling stories. 

Edited December 29, 2015 by Primal Slayer

[Starfish35]

Diggle's baby isn't a child of the lead character, and is mostly offscreen with her mother.

[Primal Slayer]

It is still a child of a main character and little Sara doesn't affect Diggles storyline that much. They can easily have Olivers child more in the background and only show him when they need more personal time. Rick is the lead character in TWD and he has a pre-teen and a 1 year old, they've made Carl into a good character throughout the series even though he started off annoying. 

 

IF they had to, Donna could easily be babysitting the child while Oliver and Felicity are "at work" which they are majority of the time.

Edited December 29, 2015 by Primal Slayer

[Chaser]

I don't watch TWD or The Originals (The baby killed any desire to watch that show).

 

I think the kid on Nikita is forgivable because he only appeared in a few episodes and there was no secrets and lies. Sara isn't as bad as I feared. I think it's because she is more of a footnote. A big part of Diggle's life, but not the shows.

 

It's the April's that are too be feared. 

[BkWurm1]

I enjoyed April when she was just being herself and interacting with Luke.  It was the drama and the secrets that made everything so miserable.  Still, I don't even consider Gilmore Girls a show that added kids in later seasons since Rory and Lane and their friends at school were a part of the show's sensibility right from the start. 

 

On Friends I think Ben actually did add to the show but Emma might as well have been Joey's Huggsie for all she added to the show.

[wonderwall]

I know some of you are annoyed by the obvious clickbait article... But I'm honored that tvline thinks Felicity is worthy of being clickbait (it validates her popularity) :) 

[tv echo]

Bello Mag's multitude of tweets regarding their EBR cover issue (also check out the current banner pic on their twitter page)... 

BELLO ‏@BELLOmag
Let me give you the stunning @emilybett for @bellomag issue #100 ✨ Download your #YoungHollywood… https://www.instagram.com/p/_lMGD_HB6z/
8:42 PM - 21 Dec 2015

https://twitter.com/BELLOmag/status/679160053660798976

BELLO ‏@BELLOmag
It's here! Our #100thissue with the stunning @EmilyBett front & center! #Arrow #TheFlash #EmilyBett #YoungHollywood
4:07 AM - 22 Dec 2015

https://twitter.com/BELLOmag/status/679272048447877120

BELLO ‏@BELLOmag
#Olicity ✨@emilybett by @the_visualante for @bellomag #YoungHollywood now out

[dtissagirl]

I really don't know there the pregnant and lost the baby as well as the ablity to have kids is coming from.

 

They did this in the comics with Dinah, so that Oliver could manpain a lot about it. I guess people are projecting the misery porn onto Felicity? Yuck.

[tv echo]

Clearly a Flash fan (his #1 is Shantel VanSanten)...

 

My Top 10 Celebrity Crushes of 2015!
By Trent Tofte ⋅  December 28th, 2015 at 10:25pm
http://moviepilot.com/posts/3700595

3) Emily Bett Rickards
*  *  *
No one personifies "adorkable" more than Emily Bett Rickards, especially in her role as Arrow's Felicity Smoak. The chemistry between her and Barry Allen's Flash is even better than that between her and Oliver Queen.

[Morrigan2575]

I think it comes from people trying to figure out just why Samantha/William and THE secret were setup in the episode before Felicity gets injured. 408 + Felicity getting shot in the stomach area = Felicity losing baby and/or ability to have kids to ratchet up the DRAMA.

Plus it could be used to give Oliver an excuse (gag) for why he keeps the secret/lie going for several episodes (how can I tell Felicity about William when she just lost the ability to ever have kids of her own!?)

[tv echo]

IMO, a big "NO" to Felicity becoming an Oracle-esque character (no spoilers unless you haven't been watching S4 so far)...

 

'Arrow' Season 4 Spoilers: 5 Storylines We Need To See Happen In New 2016 Episodes
Peter Anthony Dec, 28, 2015, 02:00 PM
http://www.designntrend.com/articles/67239/20151228/arrow-season-4-spoilers-5-storylines-we-need-to-see-happen-in-new-2016-episodes.htm

[tangerine95]

I think they will use her injury as a reason for Oliver to delay telling her but I don't think it has to be because she can't have kids so he doesn't know how to break it to her he has one already and lied about it.It can even be used if she's totally fine and he didn't want to upset her after everything she's been through.I can see that excuse being used.With the kid storyline focusing on the lie I expect them to mostly deal with that and make it an issue of trust as well as tie it with her father.

Yeah a big no on the Oracle storyline.I can't believe thats even a issue.Felicity is an original character despite the comic book name,there's no need to try to fit her into someone else's comic book destiny just because they're both hackers and I hope they don't try.At this point I'm so sick of the oracle speculation I'd be happy to settle for Overwatch as her codename and I hated that one.

[tv echo]

More grave speculation - only characters discussed are Felicity, Captain Lance, Diggle, and Baby and/or Baby Mama (no spoilers unless you haven't been watching S4 so far)...

 

'Arrow' Season 4 Spoilers: Theories On Who Will Die When The Show Returns In 2016
BY TYLER MCCARTHY @TYLERMCCARTHY ON 12/25/15 AT 1:43 PM
http://www.ibtimes.com/arrow-season-4-spoilers-theories-who-will-die-when-show-returns-2016-2238837

Edited December 29, 2015 by tv echo

[tv echo]

This writer's #1 is sure to be controversial (he believes "Canaries" was the best S3 episode in 2015)...

 

Arrow: The Top 5 Things That Reminded Us the Show Can Still Be Good
By Noel Kirkpatrick   Dec 22, 2015
http://www.tv.com/news/arrow-top-5-moments-2015-145080902842/

[Primal Slayer]

He wasn't lying, shame they practically undid all of her S3 storylines.

[dtissagirl]

The thing that grates is that this [potential] severely injured storyline for Felicity comes with selective amnesia about Oliver's magic island herbs + Tatsu's magic tea insta-cures. But nope, Felicity needs to be incapacitated for reasons.

[EmilyBettFan]

That episode was ridiculous and so bad. Sorry to the fans of hers but it completely showed how awesome Sara is and just how out of her league Laurel is.

The thing that grates is that this [potential] severely injured storyline for Felicity comes with selective amnesia about Oliver's magic island herbs + Tatsu's magic tea insta-cures. But nope, Felicity needs to be incapacitated for reasons.

i don't like that either. But, all I can have faith in is how well she is elevating her acting with each passing episode! She's going to act the hell out of whatever storyline they're doing for her.

[Primal Slayer]

It was all about Laurel learning that she isn't anywhere near Sara which is fine. She is her own person.

[way2interested]

Yeah a big no on the Oracle storyline.I can't believe thats even a issue.Felicity is an original character despite the comic book name,there's no need to try to fit her into someone else's comic book destiny just because they're both hackers and I hope they don't try.At this point I'm so sick of the oracle speculation I'd be happy to settle for Overwatch as her codename and I hated that one.

This. It's one thing to use it as logic to support the speculation (i.e. "well, she has an Oracle role on the show already, so being in a wheelchair wouldn't be too outlandish to predict for a temporary plot line"), but it's another to go around proclaiming that she's going to follow the Oracle path now, especially when we don't even have confirmation on her injuries. It was annoying back in s1-2 when people claimed this would happen, and it's annoying now.

If anything, she's following Proxy more, but even then only in a slightly superficial sense. She's Felicity Smoak, she's interesting enough on her own without having to be tied to a different comic book destiny to make her suddenly more important. Even IF her codename is Oracle (which is still strange, did all of these articles just suddenly forget that they can't do Batman/Superman lore? It doesn't matter if the Titans show gets picked up or not, they still probably can't use it, they can barely mention locations in this universe, they wouldn't be able to reference names. It takes away too much from the Arrowverse), it doesn't change the fact that she's still her own character who has a different destiny.

Sigh, sorry for the rant. Articles that report unresearched information (Felicity is now Oracle, Batman and Superman to appear on Arrow?, Oliver to wear signature facial hair?) burn me up. Even in the click-bait sense, it's still pretty shallow news. I'm steeling myself in case they are true, though. Don't even get me started on how many times I rolled my eyes at articles for HIMYM about the mother being dead only to ram my head against the wall once the finale rolled around.

[Delphi]

She's way more interesting than Proxy, that's for sure. :/

[dtissagirl]

I really want a unique codename for Felicity exactly because they're borrowing plot points from the previous ~lady hacker~ characters for her.

 

If Smallville OF ALL SHOWS managed to come up with a cool twist on their ~lady hacker~ codename, it's the very least I expect from Arrow.

[EmilyBettFan]

It was all about Laurel learning that she isn't anywhere near Sara which is fine. She is her own person.

i don't think she did learn. She's still has everything Sara was. She's just Laurel with all of Sara's costume and crying device. I know it's different (the device) but you have to admit Sara had all the stuff BC has in the comics. She just didn't have "the name." Edited December 29, 2015 by EmilyBettFan

[Primal Slayer]

Laurel coming to the conclusion that she isn't her sister in any way, shape, or form has nothing to do with her being smart enough to know that these weapons are good use and honoring her sisters memory.  Sara had a lot of BC things, there were things she didn't have, I like both sisters so I don't take time to pit the two against each other constantly.

[GreatAtBoats]

"Canaries" wasn't about Laurel realizing she was different from Sara, though, it was Sara's motivations and personality being posthumously retconned by Felicity so that Laurel could feel better about herself at the expense of Sara's memory.

You can't honor the memory of someone you don't have a clue about, and it was obvious from Laurel post-Vertigo breakthrough imagining Sara would be smiling on as her big sis relentlessly pummeled someone that Laurel has no clue who Sara is/was.

[EmilyBettFan]

Not retconned by Felicity. By the writers.

[Sakura12]

That's another thing that still bothers me. Laurel knew nothing about Sara or what she's been through. She seemed to only take on the superficial part of Sara, the costume and the fighting. She wasn't honoring the person Sara was or what Sara was fighting for.

 

A doctor told her Sara scars look like she'd been in a war zone, then instead of following up with any questions went to give Oliver a hug instead of her sister. She had her hallucination Sara call her a bitch and we know Sara hates that word and would never use it. The final straw was having to be told Sara had no light so she could feel better and be different than Sara. 

 

Sara's light always shines for women in trouble. That part of her was never extinguished even when she had no soul. Laurel has no understanding of that part of her sister. Everything she sees with Sara is on the outside, just like Laurel being a hero is on the outside. She put on a mask to beat up people to make herself feel better. That had nothing to do with honoring her sister.

Edited December 29, 2015 by Sakura12

[AyChihuahua]

I don't watch TWD or The Originals (The baby killed any desire to watch that show).

 

I think the kid on Nikita is forgivable because he only appeared in a few episodes and there was no secrets and lies. Sara isn't as bad as I feared. I think it's because she is more of a footnote. A big part of Diggle's life, but not the shows.

 

It's the April's that are too be feared. 

Just FYI, my first name is April. Sharing it with Miss Nardini is an unpleasant experience. (I always thought the actress was fine, though...it was the adults' reactions to the kid that were the problem, not the kid herself or the actress playing her.)

 

The Walking Dead started with two young kids, one of whom is a major character. In fact he's probably going to be the last person standing in the series finale. Shows that start with kids, as I said, don't count. (Comment not directed at you.)  Sara arguably counts, but she's more like one of the Friends kids who were barely shown. (And actually, Ross's first kid was pretty terrible once he wasn't a mostly-invisible baby anymore.) The kid on Nikita did not improve that show. No one can argue that kid improved Nikita. He only didn't ruin it bc yeah, no lies about him, and he was gone quickly.

[AyChihuahua]

I think it comes from people trying to figure out just why Samantha/William and THE secret were setup in the episode before Felicity gets injured. 408 + Felicity getting shot in the stomach area = Felicity losing baby and/or ability to have kids to ratchet up the DRAMA.

Plus it could be used to give Oliver an excuse (gag) for why he keeps the secret/lie going for several episodes (how can I tell Felicity about William when she just lost the ability to ever have kids of her own!?)

Replying in Spoiler Discussion.

[dtissagirl]

Homeland inserted a kid into the story in the third season [because Claire Danes got pregnant], and it kinda worked? But it's because Carrie's only a mother in offscreenville. As soon as the action plotty plot start, she leaves the kid with her family back in the US, and goes be a spy elsewhere in the world.

 

But I also think there's a huge difference between babies/toddlers, who don't have to be written as actual characters, and bringing a surprise pre-teen into a show. Then there's the expectation of actual narrative for the kid. Which Arrow doesn't even seem inclined to do. They're writing a 10 year old the way every other tv show ever writes a baby.

Edited December 29, 2015 by dtissagirl

[Morrigan2575]

I always thought Charmed did a really good job integrating kids into the story. Granted family (not magic) was the main theme of the TV Show which probably made it easier to work marriage/children into the series.

I really, really, really hope Arrow doesn't try to integrate William into the show. I don't think it'll work with this show, not without causing major changes to the premise.

Edited December 29, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[AyChihuahua]

I think a baby can work, but only if they're barely shown. That is why I don't even want an O/F baby until the very end of the series, bc both parents would be main characters. I guess they could pull an Emma and mention the kid's always with Donna, but I never thought doing that on Friends reflected all that well on Rachel or Ross as parents. A 10-year-old appearing out of the blue? God no. Either constant kidnap-bait or precocious imp. The only thing worse would be an angsty teen.

[wonderwall]

An interesting read. Not sure if I agree fully, but interesting nonetheless. 

 

How Felicity Smoak Set the Stage for Supergirl

http://decider.com/2015/12/29/how-felicity-smoak-set-the-stage-for-supergirl/

 

A little excerpt: 

 

Supergirl carries on the Smoak legacy with its unique self-awareness and focus on what makes Kara Zor-El (Melissa Benoist) human rather than alien: her personal relationships with her family, her friends, and her work, both as Kara and as Supergirl. Kara in turn is an interesting look at Felicity Smoak’s character because Kara, like Felicity, is the character the audience is meant to relate to – she’s just the one with superpowers this time.

Edited December 30, 2015 by wonderwall

[way2interested]

Same, I don't agree with some of it, but it does draw some interesting points for discussion. I do think that Felicity clarified the need for a character who can be a light in the plot and reflect on points that the audience would be thinking, especially in a superhero show, not to mention the importance of a chemistry test. And I do think that Felicity definitely had influence over some of the decisions on some of these shows as well (with Barry and Ray being written towards Felicity's character, Patty's casting calling for a "Felicity-like" girl, or some of the original sides for Kara on Supergirl), but I do think that ultimately all of these characters are different, each wanting and needing different things in life, but that, I think, would be a discussion for the Mind Your Surroundings thread.

 

Gotta love the love for Felicity always though. My favorite description that an article gave for Supergirl is "It's as if Felicity had superpowers." It's actually not really that true, and the comparison is actually starting to wear on me, but the description still makes me laugh.

[Primal Slayer]

That is just overkill for me, Felicity is a fun character but she is not the first of her kind. It is one of the things that instantly put me off of Patty.

[EmilyBettFan]

She certainly is more popular than others though.

[Chaser]

Felicity didn't invent a trope or forge new ground, but I do think that her popularity had a big influence on the Berlanti universe. 

[Primal Slayer]

She certainly is more popular than others though.

Ok? She has the perk of being the happy character in a show filled with only dramatic characters. 

Felicity didn't invent a trope or forge new ground, but I do think that her popularity had a big influence on the Berlanti universe. 

I think she did make them take a double take of "oh hey, we don't need every character to be so emo" but other then that I think they try to ride off of her popularity and it just doesn't work for me.

[EmilyBettFan]

She still has dramatic moments, cries and all of that. People just gravitate towards her more because she's an approachable character. I know that sounds weird because she's fictional. But, she radiates a different aura.

They tried to give everyone moments of lightness. They had Roy and Thea. They tried it with Laurel and Nyssa with that diner scene. You can't connect those two when we know Nyssa and Sara have a history. Just rubs the wrong way.

Felicity I think won't be very happy soon and I still think a lot of fans are still going to gravitate towards her. In a show where she's not the main character or as some say "not the leading female" she sure does get most of the year end best lists

Edited December 30, 2015 by EmilyBettFan

[Chaser]

I think she did make them take a double take of "oh hey, we don't need every character to be so emo" but other then that I think they try to ride off of her popularity and it just doesn't work for me.

 

I'm not a fan of it either. Whether it's fashioning a character after or attaching another to her. It can read like manipulation. 

 

But I will say I like Patty/Kara. I'm glad the influences are superficial and they made them their own characters. I'm less happy with other uses of her popularity.

 

Edited to rephrase. 

Edited December 30, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[Primal Slayer]

1 scene over Felicitys majority of existence being fun and light aren't really the same to me. She didn't start the show being bogged down with drama like everyone else.

I'm not a fan of it either. Whether it's fashioning a character after or attaching another to her. It can read like manipulation. 

 

But I will say I like Patty/Kara. I'm glad the influences are superficial. It was less successful with Ray and Laurel IMO.  

I like Kara, not really sure on Patty. With Patty, it probably has to do with them outright stating that she is suppose to be like Felicity 2.0 so I just see the writers trying to hard to make her into Police Felicity, it's like Barbie and all her different versions of careers.

Edited December 30, 2015 by Primal Slayer

[Chaser]

On one hand, I fist pumped at the Felicity mention because it was another example of her popularity. On the other hand, I groaned because I was tried of the them trying to duplicate Felicity and because I knew some very vocal fans were not going to like it at all. I get it. If they said they were introducing a Laurel-like character, I would probably want to hate her on principal. 

[wonderwall]

On one hand, I fist pumped at the Felicity mention because it was another example of her popularity. On the other hand, I groaned because I was tried of the them trying to duplicate Felicity and because I knew some very vocal fans were not going to like it at all. I get it. If they said they were introducing a Laurel-like character, I would probably want to hate her on principal. 

 

In the end they can try to replicate Felicity Smoak as much as possible but those characters, IMO will always come short (unless they make them different) because Felicity Smoak only came to be because of EBR. EBR brought Felicity's quirkiness to life. Her quirkiness and lightness are what attracted people to her in the first place, but then they delved deeper into her character and she's not just that anymore. 

 

So when people say that certain characters with the traits Felicity had in S1 are exactly like Felicity, I tend to roll my eyes. 

 

Just because these women share 2-3 similar superficial traits, doesn't make them the same. It's like how people say Chloe/Felicity are the same because they're blonde hacker geniuses who date Oliver Queen. 

 

I honestly do think that Felicity did have influence in some of Kara/Patty's characterization, but I wouldn't call them the same characters.

 

ETA: @10Eleven12, sorry about the mini rant that probably has nothing to do with what you're talking about :p

Edited December 30, 2015 by wonderwall