looptab May 5, 2016 Share May 5, 2016 Quote Perhaps a better question is can the show find a way of having them together, without it dominating everything, changing both characters in ways that aren't true to who they are, and making the show far more of a soap-opera than it needs to be? I'd like to think so, if they are committed to it anyway, but the show's yet to prove it. Uh, eps 401 to 414? 408 excluded. 12 Link to comment
tv echo May 5, 2016 Share May 5, 2016 (edited) ANOTHER ONE BITES THE DUST AS TEAM ARROW LEARNS ALL ABOUT DAMIEN DARHK’S MASTERPLAN Verena Cote | May 5, 2016http://www.4ye.co.uk/2016/05/another-one-bites-the-dust-as-team-arrow-learns-all-about-damien-darhks-masterplan/ Quote All in all, Arrow delivers a solid episode that had us swooning, yelling and laughing. Maybe there was a tear or two in there as well (Tommy Merlyn does that to you). But mostly it had us celebrating the end of Andy Diggle, the most unlikeable character of season four. #4.20 had us wondering just how long it will take for Oliver and Felicity to remove their heads from their colons. We couldn’t help but feel for Thea, who really deserves to catch a break. The final scene did pique our interest and we can’t wait to see what Damien Darhk comes up with next. Where will Team Arrow go from here, and what can they do to stop Genesis? Edited May 5, 2016 by tv echo 1 Link to comment
tv echo May 5, 2016 Share May 5, 2016 (edited) Arrow Review: A Diggle House Divided BY CRAIG WACK · MAY 5, 2016http://oohlo.com/2016/05/05/arrow-review-a-diggle-house-divided/ Quote After the “death” and burial of Laurel Lance, Arrow returned to its old self in a lot of ways. The team is in separate corners but everyone manages to get a fair amount of the spotlight. The action sequences were crisp and plentiful. Plus there was moments of heavy emotion mixed with levity. * * * ... Knowing Diggle will ignore every bit of his training that doesn’t involve a gun, Andy sets a series of traps that Digs falls for easily. Chasing Andy without backup? Check. Pursuing Andy into a tactically terrible situation? Check. Attempting to escape after getting captured? Not checking for tracking devices after being knocked out? Heading straight back to his wife in the rolling fortress after escaping? Check, check and you get the picture. ... * * * ... The getaway also an opportunity for Ollie and Felicity to get some time alone together, although Oliver does need a “don’t talk to me like I am other people” from Felicity first. After making a small fortune in blackjack, Ollie and Felicity meet their shaman, Esrin Fortuna. She guides the pair to a pocket dimension that looks a lot like that cave we saw during the Island flashbacks this season. The tattoo Constantine transferred to Ollie’s abs earlier in the season has enough power to battle Darhk’s magic. All Ollie has to do to counter this evil magic is – and I kid you not – think happy thoughts. ... They come back in time to save Lilah’s bacon and see Oliver square off against Darhk. The dark magic seems to be winning out as expected, but Ollie rallies to magically counter Darhk’s evil. After, Oliver said in that crucial moment he thought of Felicity’s voice led to a chain reaction of hope that filled him with the light to counter the dark magic – aww. * * * *The existence of Hub City opens up the possibility of a future guest spot from The Question, a faceless crime fighter with a conspiracy theorist bent. If they use The Question anything like he was written in the Justice League animated series, it would be a lot of fun. * * * *Little baby Sara isn’t so little any more, which is so great compared to Judith on The Walking Dead, who has been six months old for about three seasons now. * * *“Genesis” might not have been a home run episode, but it was a stand-up double the show desperately needed. There were no Island flashbacks to interrupt the narrative flow. All the characters were involved and most importantly the story moved forward for the first time in what feels like forever. If Arrow can capitalize on this narrative momentum, the series should end the season on a high note. Edited May 5, 2016 by tv echo Link to comment
tv echo May 5, 2016 Share May 5, 2016 (edited) Arrow Review: Genesis (Season 4 Episode 20) May 5, 2016 Lissete Lanuza Saenzhttp://telltaletv.com/2016/05/arrow-review-genesis-season-4-episode-20/ Quote Welcome, Arrow fans, to the world without Laurel Lance. It looks pretty…eh, familiar? I mean, other than a few mentions here and there, it didn’t feel like anyone really missed her or even needed her. But, I’m going to stop harping on about how badly the writers botched the whole Laurel Lance death/character/general existence. After such a good episode, they’ve earned the right to a reprieve. Let’s focus on the good, for a change. * * * Felicity Smoak has always been Oliver Queen’s light. She’s the one who, with her love, her kindness and her unwavering support has helped Oliver turn a new leaf. And yet, Oliver can’t depend on Felicity anymore, not if he wants to defeat Damien Darhk. He can’t rely on Diggle, either, his brother, his role model. So, who else is left? Felicity broke up with him, an event so traumatic that he seems to regard it on the same scale as the death of his parents. Diggle has officially lost his way, so Oliver can’t rightfully expect the man to point him in the right direction. Laurel is dead. Thea is his little sister. Who can Oliver turn to? No one. This time, Oliver Queen has to find the light within himself. That’s easier said than done, of course. Oliver fails on his first try, and he comes very close to failing on the second one. But then, Oliver does something that he’s never managed to do before: He internalizes all those things that he’s always required from the people he cares about. He internalizes Felicity, Thea, Diggle and Laurel. He uses them to make himself stronger. * * * Oliver Queen might not be the hero we thought he was. He might not be the Green Arrow from the comics. He might not even be the best version of himself, not yet. But he’s finally a man who can stand on his own and win a fight – not with his fists, or with his bow, but with his heart. Edited May 5, 2016 by tv echo 2 Link to comment
lemotomato May 5, 2016 Share May 5, 2016 46 minutes ago, looptab said: Uh, eps 401 to 414? 408 excluded. Seriously. With all the "Olicity has taken over the show and is unpleasant melodrama!" and "Felicity is such a bitch that's always mean to Oliver!" talk, I wonder if people's memories are so short they don't remember 401-414, when they worked as a team within a team and Felicity was completely supportive of Oliver, even when he screwed up and wasn't with her at the hospital after she was paralyzed. 11 Link to comment
AyChihuahua May 5, 2016 Share May 5, 2016 A lot of the articles are saying he failed the magic thing on his first try, so succeeding later was out of the blue, but that's not correct. The first black smoke she sent at him, he succeeded. He failed at his SECOND try. If the reviewers just paid more attention... 9 Link to comment
BkWurm1 May 5, 2016 Share May 5, 2016 3 hours ago, AyChihuahua said: A lot of the articles are saying he failed the magic thing on his first try, so succeeding later was out of the blue, but that's not correct. The first black smoke she sent at him, he succeeded. He failed at his SECOND try. If the reviewers just paid more attention... Not to mention that it seemed pretty clear to me that Oliver was given that key bit of hope back to him during his conversation with Felicity. He felt he failed and that he couldn't change, Felicity made sure he understood that wasn't true and next time, he had the mental control he needed because he had the needed faith in himself. His mind set between his session with Fortuna and when facing Dahrk had already changed. That is why it didn't bother me with Fortuna stopped the lessons so soon. She said he wasn't ready, not that he would never be ready. After knowing Felicity hadn't given up on him, he WAS ready. :) I was ok with Fortuna giving up so quickly because while she said there was nothing she could do, she did leave open the possibility that Oliver could change 9 Link to comment
dtissagirl May 6, 2016 Share May 6, 2016 I'm half tempted to believe Fortuna gave up on Oliver on purpose. Like, she knew all along she wasn't the one who was supposed to lead Oliver into the light -- she was just the one to clarify that's where he needs to go. 18 Link to comment
AyChihuahua May 6, 2016 Share May 6, 2016 3 minutes ago, dtissagirl said: I'm half tempted to believe Fortuna gave up on Oliver on purpose. Like, she knew all along she wasn't the one who was supposed to lead Oliver into the light -- she was just the one to clarify that's where he needs to go. I was thinking the same thing. Like in the first Matrix...telling Keanu he wasn't The One is sort of what made him become The One. 3 Link to comment
tv echo May 6, 2016 Share May 6, 2016 (edited) Los Angeles Times' mixed review of 420 (reviewer must've taken a bathroom or snack break when O&F had their post-test conversation)... It only took 20 episodes, but the bad guy's plan finally makes some sense after Arrow's 'Genesis' James Queally May 5, 2016http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/herocomplex/la-et-hc-arrow-genesis-recap-20160504-story.html Quote Arrow's" fourth season has truly been a tale of two series: the one that lands its emotional arcs with all the precision of a top-of-the-line boxer throwing jabs, and the one that's struggling to rein in its unwieldy magic-heavy A-plot, out of breath and hoping to be saved by the bell at the end of the round. "Genesis" is a microcosm of those two series in a 60-minute span. Everything that's so right about the conclusion to the war between the brothers Diggle matches up with everything confusing and unsatisfying about the series' stumbling attempts to shoehorn magic into a previously grounded show about masked men and women making tough choices on rooftops. * * * But Andy is his blind spot, and to see Diggle pay so many prices for the simple hope that he could believe in his brother has made for excellent television. David Ramsey has had great moments in this series, and the simple shock that spread across his face after shooting his brother ranks high up there. It's a perfect understanding of the character, even after everything Andy did to deserve the bullet that ended him, John is still wearing an expression that screams "What did I just do?" He even lies to Lyla about the specifics of their final confrontation, a move that seems a little more like Oliver than it does our man Dig. * * * However, this is the second or third time the show has chosen to convey magic as little more than fisticuffs inside one's mind (the battle for Sara's soul played out as a pier six brawl back when Constantine showed up last year), and it kind of doesn't work. The season-long theme of Oliver wrestling with his internal leanings toward light or darkness are fine, playing it out as a deciding factor in his ability to combat Darhk's magic seemed a little on the nose. Nothing really changed between Oliver's conversation with Esrin Fortuna ... and his clash with Darhk. Yet somehow the sound of Felicity's voice allowed him to sense the light inside and repel Darhk's abilities? That's Saturday morning cartoon storytelling. I don't have a problem with Felicity being the anchor that keeps Oliver more hero than killer. I have a problem with the show doing nothing to establish that. Felicity doesn't say anything in her one scene with Oliver between his failed magic training and his latest punch-up with Damien, so I'm left to believe that the mere thought of her allows him to embrace the light, or something. Felicity and Oliver's bond can certainly be the reason he's able to battle back against Darhk's evil incarnate, but the lovebirds need to do something active, a reconciliation, an understanding of why they can't be together right now. If this is the only explanation we're going to get of how Oliver can stand toe-to-toe with the bad guy, it robs Mr. and Mrs. Queen-Smoak of their agency. * * * I am aware that Esrin Fortuna is a DC Comics character, or at least my Google search history is aware. I just don't care. If it walks like Zatanna and it talks like Zatanna, it's Zatanna. (I may have also just rewatched "Young Justice," so I really want more Zatanna). Edited May 6, 2016 by tv echo Link to comment
Password May 6, 2016 Share May 6, 2016 No but seriously this reviewer either did not watch 5 minutes of the episode, or just doesn't count Felicity telling Oliver she was hurt and didn't mean it when she said he can't change. Leading to encouragement and hope flowing in. 3 Link to comment
tv echo May 6, 2016 Share May 6, 2016 (edited) Craig Wack and Tatiana Torres discuss Arrow 420 beginning at 1:18:40... Agents of GEEK Podcast Episode 27 Posted on 05/06/2016http://agentsofgeekpodcast.com/wordpress/ -- Craig said that this was a better episode than what we've gotten in awhile, esp. since the show came back from its long hiatus. -- Tatiana was even mad that they had to mention Laurel at all: "Can't we just be done with Laurel? Completely. We don't have to mention her at all. Is that wrong? Is that mean?" Craig: "Well, you wish. But no, not especially." -- Tatiana thought that, especially after last week, this episode was "light years above" what she felt they'd be getting, and a big contributor to that was the fact that there was no Laurel and there was no island flashback. Also, we got some "old school" Oliver & Felicity stuff. Craig added that seeing Diggle & Lyla together "has always been fun." Tatiana: "She's so kickass... She's a f^ckin' badass." -- Craig and Tatiana did have one point of contention. Craig said Oliver learned that the way to combat DD's darkness was to "think happy thoughts." Tatiana disagreed and said that it wasn't that simple and that it's like "the whole basis of the Jedi... if he thinks about fear or anger or hurt, that's just gonna overtake his being. It's not just thinking happy thoughts - it's pushing aside all the negative, you know what I mean? It's more pushing aside the negative than thinking happy thoughts... Especially for someone like Ollie, who we saw in that f*cking flash - like, has so much negative sh*t - to be able to overcome that, even if it is because he's thinking about Felicity's voice - which, by the way, 'swoon' - um, that just shows how strong... He's kinda denied it for so long, but those relationships are so strong that the positivity of those relationships... can outweigh all the negative darkness stuff that he flashed on before." She added: "It's like soul-weighing. It's not like he's just thinking about riding a bike or like, 'I flew a kite, that made me happy.' No, he's thinking about real f*ckin' sh*t... that is the positive light in his soul, through these relationships in his life that have kinda helped him come out of this Island Oliver. That's been the topic all year, especially in the breakup... 'how can he become someone who's not Island Oliver?'" Tatiana noted that it was Felicity telling him that she was angry when she told him he could never change from Island Oliver and that he has changed "that brought it all around." Craig said that the episode made it seem like Oliver just had hear Felicity's voice in his head to enable him to get the light magic. Tatiana said that it wasn't just that, but Oliver also thought of his relationship with Diggle and with his sister. Craig added "and Laurel". Tatiana: "Stop mentioning her f*ckin' name! -- Tatiana objected to keeping Baby Sara in a truck that just keeps driving around all the time. -- Craig and Tatiana laughed over Thea & Alex's vacation destination: "Who goes on a romantic getaway to the g*dd*mn suburbs?" That should have been the first thing to make Thea suspicious. -- Craig: "Darhk's plan is essentially a twist on Samuel L. Jackson's plan in Kingsmen: The Secret Service... They're gonna cull humanity in order to save the planet. In Kingsmen, they found a way to control people's minds to make them beat each other and kill them, while the protected group were in little pockets around the world. When the 90% kill each other, this elite 10% will start over again and let the planet heal itself. Darhk's plan is sorta the same way, except he's gonna use nukes - which makes no sense because, yes, nukes will get the job done, but it will also, like, cause nuclear winter for 10,000 years and all kinds of radioactive fallout. So basically, they would turn themselves into mole people because they would have to stay in that dome. And how the hell is that dome gonna power itself?" -- They noted that Damien Darhk is the "nicest bad guy ever" because he gave the heroes a break of several weeks but now it's time for him to go full throttle. -- They were both down on Andy Diggle for shooting at a truck with a baby inside. -- Tatiana asked "how many times can you mention Constantine without bringing Constantine back?" She suggested saying "Constantine" a hundred times "rapid-fire". Craig added "like Beetlejuice." -- Craig was glad that now they can move forward and make a plan. He said that between the stuff they did with the LoT set-up and all the breaks they've taken, the Darhk storyline has been "so haphazard" and he's so ready for the Darhk story to be done and over. Tatiana asked if maybe NM was too expensive to get for every episode. Craig said that he thought a "guest star" was limited to a certain number of episodes per season, which is why they brought in Ruve Darhk. Edited May 6, 2016 by tv echo 2 Link to comment
tv echo May 6, 2016 Share May 6, 2016 jbuffyangel's review of 420... THE SHIFT: (GENESIS) ARROW 4X20 REVIEW jbuffyangel MAY 05, 2016 @ 15:52http://jbuffyangel.tumblr.com/post/143908382323/the-shift-genesis-arrow-4x20-review 1 Link to comment
looptab May 6, 2016 Share May 6, 2016 13 minutes ago, Password said: No but seriously this reviewer either did not watch 5 minutes of the episode, or just doesn't count Felicity telling Oliver she was hurt and didn't mean it when she said he can't change. Leading to encouragement and hope flowing in. I honestly didn't even think about that being the change until someone here pointed it out, so it could be. Except I didn't question Oliver succeeding when he faced DD - maybe because I was spoiled about the line he'd say later to Felicity, so I knew he would. Link to comment
tv echo May 6, 2016 Share May 6, 2016 (edited) TV Recap: ‘Arrow: Genesis’ May 5, 2016 by Nicholas Graffhttp://sciencefiction.com/2016/05/05/tv-recap-arrow-genesis/ Quote - Anyone else worried that Andy was going to force-feed Diggle some of those yellow pills and force him onto the side of Darhk? I wonder if that will be the fate of Thea now that she is trapped down on the “Ark” * * * - I’m calling it, the final Darhk/ Oliver battle will occur in the Nexus Chamber of Star City. Pretty solid episode, and a great lead-up to the final batch of episodes for the season. I cannot wait to see Oliver use more magic against Darhk, and to see how the team will manage to subdue a nuclear apocalypse and save not only Star City but the entire world this season.... Edited May 6, 2016 by tv echo Link to comment
tv echo May 6, 2016 Share May 6, 2016 (edited) Are ‘Arrow’s’ Oliver & Felicity better off apart? BY LINDSAY MACDONALD AT 01:05 PM ON MAY 5, 2016http://zap2it.com/2016/05/arrow-should-oliver-felicity-reconcile-stay-broken-up/ Quote Why Oliver & Felicity should reconcile ... When a couple has “endgame” stamped on them in the way that Oliver and Felicity do, putting them through the wringer is sometimes the only way to keep the relationship interesting and relevant to the show. Throwing obstacles in Olicity’s path this year has allowed the show to explore their differences and how those difference help and hurt the team as a whole. More importantly, both Oliver and Felicity have been challenged to grow out of bad habits and into new ones. Oliver has learned how dangerous secrets and self-sacrifice can be, and Felicity has been able to grow into her identity outside of Oliver and Team Arrow. Now that their breakup has run its course and Oliver and Felicity are getting back to a good, friendly place, it may be time to let these two reconcile and get back together. After all, Olicity is one of the only TV couples that is just as entertaining to watch when they’re in a happy, healthy relationship as when they’re not, which is a rare commodity. “Arrow” benefits from their light-hearted love more than their anguished drama anyways. * * *Why Oliver & Felicity need more time ... Oliver and Felicity work well together as a couple, but recent episodes have proven that they might work better when they’re not together. Felicity, for all her light and enthusiasm, is most interesting when she has an edge about her. When she’s surrounded by Oliver’s rather broody nature, her optimism kicks into overdrive and she misses out on a lot of opportunities to show her hardened, serious side. In the past few episodes, she’s managed a great balance of anger, hope and grief, which might have been hard to accomplish if she’d had to be Oliver’s rock. Oliver has also flourished a little in Felicity’s absence by having to depend on himself as a picker-upper instead of his perpetually cheery girlfriend. He’s made so many self-discoveries and learned a lot of hard lessons without Felicity there to hold his hand, and that kind of character development is what fans love to see on “Arrow.” No matter how much Olicity fans might want a reconciliation pronto, it may serve these characters to stay apart for a while longer and explore these new complexities. Edited May 6, 2016 by tv echo 1 Link to comment
kismet May 6, 2016 Share May 6, 2016 On 5/5/2016 at 9:31 AM, tv echo said: Just About Write's review of 420... Arrow 4x20 Review: "Genesis" (In the Beginning) Just About Write 6:59 PMhttp://www.itsjustaboutwrite.com/2016/05/arrow-4x20-review-genesis-in-beginning.htmlcx I don't think DD's plan is to reenact the 76th Hunger Games (although I wouldn't put is past MM); that dome and the CGI invisible forcefield/shield/wall definitely looked like the ones in the Hunger Games. So it felt like a visual reference to the Hunger Games even if the plan is completely different for DD. Link to comment
tv echo May 6, 2016 Share May 6, 2016 (edited) Starry Constellation Magazine's interview with ER (no spoilers)... Elysia Rotaru – Arrow By starrymag | May 4, 2016http://starrymag.com/?p=10269 Quote Q) Talk about your audition for “Arrow” and if your character evolved from that. A) I went in with fake audition sides, ones not a part of the actual script. The character was pretty much built off the character that the fans would know from the original “Green Arrow” comic. She was a mother, fighter and protector. The process for the audition was interesting. I just kind of negated what I would usually do and made different choices that still felt authentic and also honest for the character. Then, I didn’t really hear anything back for a few days and then my agent called to say I had gotten the part. I didn’t really know how big the character would be and I think she didn’t either. But it was fun and I was very stoked. * * *Q) What was it like for you joining the cast? A) I got to set and met Stephen Amell right away. I was so excited and so happy to see a lot of familiar faces in the crew. And I think that just made it wonderful and it felt so damn good to be there. I knew the Director of Photography, First AD and Second AD from working as a reoccurring star on “Hellcats.” Everyone was super welcoming. Q) What was the chemistry like working with Stephen Amell? A) He’s cool. He’s a really interesting fellow. I was always intrigued about what makes the guy tick. I still don’t know! He’s a really interesting guy and has so much going on. He has a family, owns a coffee company, he owns a vineyard and he has a movie coming out this summer. He was doing WWE stuff. When I was with him, it was always easy. Our time to really develop our chemistry off screen was futile because we’d pop out after work and have to bypass the weather that was coming at us. So, when we were working in character a lot of that development with our relationship just developed as we were working. We’d sit down and chat in between takes. But for me, most of the time because I was in such a heightened state of emotion with this character it was hard for me to pop in and out. I couldn’t be like, “Hey, let’s chat! Let’s hang out!” and then go back to needing to cry. So, there were a few times we would grab a beer after set and that was great. I’d get a chance to sit and talk with him and be like, “Starting to understand what makes you tick.” Even then, it was just a few occasions. It was just a luxury of time. It is probably a different thing being Emily [Bett Rickards] or Willa [Holland] who are there almost every day or every week with him. I’m pretty good at amalgamating myself with other people and blending in with an ensemble. This was interesting though because it was just me and him most of the time. He’s cool, supportive and knows what he is doing. He knows his character so well and I really learned a lot by working alongside of him. Q) The show is known for a lot of strong female characters. Taiana falls into that category. How does it feel to you to portray such a strong, diverse female character? A) Honestly, I’m getting goosebumps now because it is something that hasn’t sunk in just yet. But it feels so damn good! It’s so great! I’m so, so fortunately, grateful and blessed that I was allowed to take her into the direction that she evolved into. A lot of it came from one of the directors on the show that is also the stunt coordinator on the show, James [Bamford]. I remember he was directing me one day and he said, “I Just want her to stop crying! The woman is going to be strong in this one!” I was like, “YES!” I really wanted that for her, but you almost need to make sure that the writing and the storyline can support that so you aren’t being told to do something off the mark. That was such a great feeling. It was so liberating and fun. As an actor, for me, I didn’t really (until those moments in the episodes after) really love playing women like this. Maybe it is something I have more clarity on and a more definite vision for. So, it’s been cool and I love hearing the fans ask what is going to happen to her. It’s so cool and so exciting. It’s invigorating! Q) Is there anything else you can tease is in store for Taiana? A) The stuff that is going on with Taiana towards the end of the season is going to be amazeballs. I really hope the fans are reading and tuning in stay tuned. They are going to love it! #Amazeballs! It’s going to be great! I’m excited for my mom because she’s such a fan of “Arrow” and always watches. She texts me after, too. I’m going to do a voice for an animated series shortly. Residue comes out next year. So, be sure you keep your eyes open and ears to the ground for! I’m producing and starting to do that on a short film with my production partner. It’s pretty exciting. Edited May 6, 2016 by tv echo Link to comment
looptab May 6, 2016 Share May 6, 2016 22 minutes ago, tv echo said: #Amazeballs! Hahahahahahahha #blessed. Also: 23 minutes ago, tv echo said: A lot of it came from one of the directors on the show that is also the stunt coordinator on the show, James [Bamford]. I remember he was directing me one day and he said, “I Just want her to stop crying! The woman is going to be strong in this one!” I was like, “YES!” I really wanted that for her, but you almost need to make sure that the writing and the storyline can support that so you aren’t being told to do something off the mark. That was such a great feeling. It was so liberating and fun. As an actor, for me, I didn’t really (until those moments in the episodes after) really love playing women like this. Maybe it is something I have more clarity on and a more definite vision for. I'm so surprised to hear this! *snorts* Anyway, I don't quite get what she's saying at the end about not loving playing women like this. Like what? What women doesn't she like to play? 3 Link to comment
tv echo May 6, 2016 Share May 6, 2016 (edited) I know I said that I would never post another Forbes review, but in the Arrowverse, 'never say never'. I couldn't resist reading what that Forbes guy had to say about 420 - surprise, he liked it... 'Arrow' Season 4, Episode 20 Review: Genesis Erik Kain MAY 5, 2016 @ 01:39 PM http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2016/05/05/arrow-season-4-episode-20-review-genesis/#53e1530f7c50 Quote I have to admit, this was a pretty strong episode of Arrow. A bit confusing at times, but over all an emotionally charged, exciting bit of superhero drama. * * * Beyond that [Diggle killing Andy], however, there were some other good moments. Oliver is trained in some mystic powers by an immortal shaman—I admit, I sort of glaze over some of these scenes about magic and mysticism. But the shaman lady gives up on Oliver, as his darkness is just too strong and will only empower Darhk. That turns out to be nonsense, as Oliver is finally able to confront our villain and rebuff his powers. Oliver’s eyes turn yellow, and for a moment he’s more than just a vigilante. He’s an out-and-out superhero with super powers. I’m not sure where they go with this down the road, but it was kind of a neat change. Oliver got to be someone else…something else. He and Felicity are all chummy again, though not “together.” This is just weird to me. I don’t know about you guys, but break-ups in the real world (and especially cancelled weddings) tend to have a huge impact on relationships. But with Oliver, he manages to maintain good and close friendships with both the sisters he slept with, with Felicity…it seems unrealistic. But I suppose they’re setting the stage for their eventual recoupling. * * * In any case, a solid episode of Arrow. The best we’ve seen in a while. The only drama was real and heavy, the conflict of two brothers brought finally to its grim end. Very little Olicity nonsense to drag things down. It’s the first time in weeks I can say I truly enjoyed the show start to finish. It’s still not at its season 1 and 2 heights, but this is a nice change of pace. Edited May 6, 2016 by tv echo Link to comment
looptab May 6, 2016 Share May 6, 2016 (edited) Quote This is just weird to me. I don’t know about you guys, but break-ups in the real world (and especially cancelled weddings) tend to have a huge impact on relationships. But with Oliver, he manages to maintain good and close friendships with both the sisters he slept with, with Felicity…it seems unrealistic. Is this the first TV show he watches? I swear in every single one I ever watched, every couple who breaks-up (even those who are not getting back together) always manage to rekindle a friendship after a while. Of course when both parties are staying on the show. Edited May 6, 2016 by looptab 5 Link to comment
Password May 6, 2016 Share May 6, 2016 I understand what he's saying about Oliver's breakups with women being friendly, especially with how Oliver treated Laurel and she still hung around. But Oliver and Felicity? Was he expecting bitterness and gnashing of teeth? They barely hold onto not reminding each other of their love. They might be broken up but there's no conventional "moving on" in sight. 3 Link to comment
Guest May 6, 2016 Share May 6, 2016 Yeah, Erik 'Nolicity' Kain has clearly never watched TV before because all couples who break up on TV still end up in each other's lives. It's TV. No, in real life O/F probably wouldn't be chummy and going off on trips together after ending their engagement but this isn't real life. I mean, I do think Felicity's behavior towards Oliver is a bit of a 180 (only a couple of episodes ago she couldn't bear to be around him or on the team because it was too hard and now she's all friendly and a touch flirty, IMO, and there's not really been any real explanation for that change. I'm cool with it because I hate the bitterness and when she snaps at him but it is a bit jarring. I wonder when anything will ever be good enough for viewers though. First they don't want O/F angst and now that it's stopped, suddenly it's weird? Good lord. Link to comment
foreverevolving May 7, 2016 Share May 7, 2016 I guess the Forbes guy never had to work with an ex, or he would have known that staying friendly is the first rule to being able to work together. and in Arrow case, where it is life and death situations it is even more important! 1 Link to comment
SmallScreenDiva May 7, 2016 Share May 7, 2016 (edited) Arrow's Stephen Amell Kills Laurel Resurrection Buzz, Teases Finale Quote The CW series’ leading man, Stephen Amell, ruled out a second chance at life for the character during a visit to Ora TV’s Larry King Now this week. “No,” Amell simply replied when asked if Laurel will come back from the dead. (But yes, the actor knows her last words to Oliver.) Edited May 7, 2016 by SmallScreenDiva Link to comment
catrox14 May 7, 2016 Share May 7, 2016 17 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said: Arrow's Stephen Amell Kills Laurel Resurrection Buzz, Teases Finale LOL I love that Stephen is just like NOPE 5 Link to comment
lemotomato May 7, 2016 Share May 7, 2016 4 hours ago, Angel12d said: I mean, I do think Felicity's behavior towards Oliver is a bit of a 180 (only a couple of episodes ago she couldn't bear to be around him or on the team because it was too hard and now she's all friendly and a touch flirty, IMO, and there's not really been any real explanation for that change. I'm cool with it because I hate the bitterness and when she snaps at him but it is a bit jarring. To be fair, Felicity realized she couldn't be around Oliver only after she was peer pressured into fake marrying him at their actual wedding venue, possibly in her actual wedding dress, and she had to hear his sincere wedding vows. My guess is that she felt she had to leave because otherwise she'd just give in and forgive him everything. 12 Link to comment
Midnight Lullaby May 7, 2016 Share May 7, 2016 So not surprised Bamford thinks a woman showing emotions means she isn't strong. I wished he used his time to make the stunts more believable since it's job instead of pushing his limited view of women no one asked for on the show. 4 Link to comment
bijoux May 7, 2016 Share May 7, 2016 I think from that interview with Elysia Rotaru. Which I haven't read to be honest, just glanced at as I was scrolling down. Link to comment
looptab May 7, 2016 Share May 7, 2016 (edited) The interview with ER that @tv echo posted upthread. Or what bijoux said :) Edited May 7, 2016 by looptab 1 Link to comment
Guest May 7, 2016 Share May 7, 2016 (edited) 11 hours ago, lemotomato said: To be fair, Felicity realized she couldn't be around Oliver only after she was peer pressured into fake marrying him at their actual wedding venue, possibly in her actual wedding dress, and she had to hear his sincere wedding vows. My guess is that she felt she had to leave because otherwise she'd just give in and forgive him everything. I know why Felicity left the team and I totally understand why she felt she needed to do that. My point was the contrast of her behavior now. 416 she leaves the team because it's too hard to be around Oliver. 420 she's back on the team, totally normal, friendly and a little flirty (sometimes) and the only thing that changed is Laurel died. That's what I found a bit jarring. There's no explanation for that change, IMO. Unless we're just supposed to assume that this is what she'd be like had she stayed originally, IDK. Edited May 7, 2016 by Guest Link to comment
ComicFan777 May 7, 2016 Share May 7, 2016 (edited) I think it's because there is only so much time that Felicity can continue acting out her anger. She may not fully forgive Oliver or fully trust him with her heart, but time would help her anger become a simmer rather than boil. Felicity and Oliver were close friends before lovers, so I'm guessing it's much harder to stay outwardly mad/cold to him rather than just falling back into the way they naturally are together. After not being around each other day-in day-out and then going on a platonic trip out of town, it might make her a little giddy to get to be around her best friend again and temporarily forget everything bad that has happened because she misses him so much. Edited May 7, 2016 by ComicFan777 6 Link to comment
lemotomato May 7, 2016 Share May 7, 2016 19 minutes ago, Angel12d said: I know why Felicity left the team and I totally understand why she felt she needed to do that. My point was the contrast of her behavior now. 416 she leaves the team because it's too hard to be around Oliver. 420 she's back on the team, totally normal, friendly and a little flirty (sometimes) and the only thing that changed is Laurel died. That's what I found a bit jarring. There's no explanation for that change, IMO. Unless we're just supposed to assume that this is what she'd be like had she stayed originally, IDK. Yeah, I've seen others wonder about that as well. All I can think is that we might have gotten some insight into her change of heart in the scene she was supposed to have with Curtis in 417 that got cut. 3 Link to comment
Guest May 7, 2016 Share May 7, 2016 7 minutes ago, ComicFan777 said: I think it's because there is only so much time that Felicity can continue acting out her anger. She may not fully forgive Oliver or fully trust him with her heart, but time would help her anger become a simmer rather than boil. Felicity and Oliver were close friends before lovers, so I'm guessing it's much harder to stay outwardly mad/cold to him rather than just falling back into the way they naturally are together. After not being around each other day-in day-out and then going on a platonic trip out of town, it might make her a little giddy to get to be around her best friend again and temporarily forget everything bad that has happened because she misses him so much. Yeah. I mean, I can head canon why she's not so angry anymore. I just would have liked more of an onscreen explanation. 5 minutes ago, lemotomato said: Yeah, I've seen others wonder about that as well. All I can think is that we might have gotten some insight into her change of heart in the scene she was supposed to have with Curtis in 417 that got cut. Yeah, I think so too. As I said above, it's not difficult to guess why her behavior towards Oliver has changed. I do think she probably just needed some time to process and as @ComicFan777 said, she's probably not angry anymore. But I can't deny that it's a little jarring when nothing has changed on screen apart from Laurel dying. Link to comment
Delphi May 7, 2016 Share May 7, 2016 Well, it's not like Laurel dying is a little thing. Their friend was just murdered. Death has a habit of bringing people together or pulling them further apart. Also could you imagine the backlash from people if Felicity was basically, "oh well, Laurel is dead, let me go back to my company and not help get justice because me and Oliver had a fight. " 5 Link to comment
Guest May 7, 2016 Share May 7, 2016 (edited) I didn't say Laurel dying is a little thing. And I'm glad Felicity is back on the team. I just wanted more connecting of the dots on screen, particularly as I'm not the only one who thought O/F came across like they hadn't just broken up a few episodes ago. Edited May 7, 2016 by Guest Link to comment
Delphi May 7, 2016 Share May 7, 2016 1 minute ago, Angel12d said: I didn't say Laurel dying is a little thing. And I'm glad Felicity is back on the team. I just wanted more connecting of the dots on screen. Oh I didn't mean to suggest that you did. Sorry if it came across that way. I merely meant to point out that people, at least in my experience, tend to put aside their personal problems in the wake of tragedy. Like even if I'm upset at someone in my life I'm not going to outwardly show anger at them days after burying our friend. I'd be trying to help everyone stay in a good place emotionally. 3 Link to comment
SmallScreenDiva May 7, 2016 Share May 7, 2016 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Angel12d said: I didn't say Laurel dying is a little thing. And I'm glad Felicity is back on the team. I just wanted more connecting of the dots on screen. I think @lemotomato is right. That heart to heart with Curtis was supposed to give us more on Felicity's feelings, I believe. And losing it made the switch from what we saw at the end of 416 to the end of 418 a little jarring. Although, as we've seen in 417, there didn't seem to be any residual anger. But I agree, I wanted to see more connecting of the dots on screen, too. Edited May 7, 2016 by SmallScreenDiva 2 Link to comment
looptab May 7, 2016 Share May 7, 2016 Yeah, I agree that that scene in 418 would have helped a bit. This show is weird that way, sometimes they hit you over the head having every character repeat either the title or the theme of the episode, sometimes they bypass things completely. 3 Link to comment
tv echo May 8, 2016 Share May 8, 2016 Arrow 420 Review: “Genesis” Reveals a Plot of Biblical Proportions By: Alisha Bjorklund May 7, 2016http://www.threeifbyspace.net/2016/05/arrow-420-review-genesis-reveals-plot-biblical-proportions/ Quote The conflict between Andy and John has been building for a while now, but in the wake of Laurel’s death, it’s become a vicious game of cat and mouse. There are times when you can’t tell who is the cat and who is the mouse. David Ramsey gave a really stellar performance as Diggle descended into darkness, driven to make brash decisions in his desperation to get Andy. * * * Felicity and Oliver find this teacher playing blackjack of all things and get down to business. Esrin Fortuna is an interesting and pretty flirty sorceress who gives up rather (disappointingly) quickly. She tells Oliver that, as he is now, he can’t let go of his darkness. It seemed a little odd that she refused to train him outright after only a couple brief (for lack of a better term) lessons. However, that vision/dream sequence flash he had of his previous moments of darkness was very well done. * * * I give this episode 9 out of 10. It was another great episode that gave Diggle the spotlight and he delivered. The dramatic and heartbreaking conclusion to his storyline with Andy took a surprising turn, but I really enjoyed it. Oliver’s magic training, while interesting was a little disappointing in how brief it was. Thea trapped in a bio-dome was compelling to watch as her serene world crumbled around her. The stakes are higher than ever and Darhk was on point as usual (although his evil laugh is starting to come across as just annoying). Link to comment
tv echo May 9, 2016 Share May 9, 2016 (edited) Jessica Breaux thought 420 was "ok"... Arrow “Genesis” Review (Season 4, Episode 20) Jessica Breaux May 8, 2016http://www.tvequals.com/2016/05/08/arrow-genesis-review-season-4-episode-20/ Quote ... My primary source of frustration this season has been how little time has been dedicated to Damien Darhk and his plan. There was quite a bit of build-up to Darhk, but I’ve been kind of underwhelmed. Neal McDonough is doing a great job. The problem is that Darhk’s overall story hasn’t been given the kind of attention it requires to get me more invested in the outcome. I don’t want him to destroy Starling City and I want him to pay for kidnapping Oliver’s son and killing Laurel. But beyond that, I haven’t had enough time or information to get invested in him or Genesis. The whole Genesis project has just been an abstract idea for most of the season, and given the plan’s complexity, I would really rather have spent more time this season revealing Darhk’s endgame in stages. * * * ... I’m wondering just how many times Diggle is going to have to rush into a situation half cocked before he realizes that he only creates more problems by doing so. I understand he was angry with Andy and afraid of what Andy might do to his family. That makes perfect sense, but the truth is, Lila and Sara wouldn’t have been put in jeopardy and Darhk wouldn’t have Rubicon if Dig had only listened. Lila told him to stop. She told him he was compromised and he needed to step back. Dig knew it, agreed with her, and yet he still charged in. Did he not think it was odd that Andy all of a sudden showed up on his tracker after having just vanished after helping Darhk escape from prison? How many more people are going to have to be hurt or killed before Dig will actually listen? I get that Dig is messed up with guilt over Laurel’s death and fear of what Andy could’ve done to his family. That’s reasonable. But that doesn’t make what he did in this episode any less dumb and shortsighted. Edited May 9, 2016 by tv echo Link to comment
tv echo May 9, 2016 Share May 9, 2016 (edited) Media report from Minneapolis Comic Con this past weekend (I only quoted DR's portion)... Wizard World Comic Con: Fascinating insights from the celeb panels MONDAY, MAY 9, 2016 AT 7:08 A.M. BY JESSICA ARMBRUSTERhttp://www.citypages.com/arts/wizard-world-comic-con-fascinating-insights-from-the-celeb-panels-8261480 Quote David Ramsey What he is known for: Ramsey is best known for his roles on TV shows, including Anton Briggs on Dexter, John Diggle on Arrow, and guests spots on programs like Castle, CSI: Miami, and Blue Bloods. Vibe: Pretty much every question asked sent Ramsey on a tangent, and the audience was loving it. Dude is really charming and funny. Oh, and this is a guy who knows as much about the fandom as the average comic-book reader. This guy knows his stuff. Memorable quotes: "That thing is a small town!" Ramsey exclaimed while talking about where he had been so far in Minneapolis. He also enjoyed a meal at Sawatdee. "That was some of the best Thai food," he said. "People are down to Earth here," Ramsey, a Detroit native, said of Minnesota. "It's just regular folks." "I hope you don't like Felicity," he joked while talking about Arrow spoilers. "The set is literally brighter," said Ramsey when speaking on The Flash versus The Arrow. Another big difference between the Arrow and Flash sets: "We don't have pop on set. They have Mountain Dew in a can!" "He's an idiot in the sweetest way possible," said Ramsey of his co-star, John Barrowman, who is Arrow's biggest prankster. Fun Facts: — He said he was planning to head over to Paisley Park on Sunday to pay his respects to Prince. — Moon Shadow and Spectre are two (kinda obscure) characters he's intrigued by and would love to play. — Is totally cool with his Arrow character not getting to wear a crazy costume like some of the other cast members. (We love our comfort and ice cream too, Ramsey.) Edited May 9, 2016 by tv echo 2 Link to comment
looptab May 9, 2016 Share May 9, 2016 I was checking TvLine's May Sweeps Scorecard, and among the "Number of deaths" they listed not only Andy, but Milo Armitage as well. which, a) random; b) what about the lady, then? o.O 3 Link to comment
Morrigan2575 May 9, 2016 Share May 9, 2016 (edited) You kind of provided the answer to you question. Laurel's death was not part of a May Sweeps event. She died in early April. Edited May 9, 2016 by Morrigan2575 Link to comment
apinknightmare May 9, 2016 Share May 9, 2016 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said: You kind of provided the answer to you question. Laurel's death was not part of a May Sweeps event. She died in early April. I think @looptab is talking about the lady HIVE member Darhk killed after Armitage. If she had a name, I can't remember what it was. Edited May 9, 2016 by apinknightmare 2 Link to comment
looptab May 9, 2016 Share May 9, 2016 (edited) Yeah, I was talking about the HIVE lady:) I mean, it's not like Armitage was that much more prominent than her. (than she? Whatever, than THAT CHICK). Edited May 9, 2016 by looptab Link to comment
apinknightmare May 9, 2016 Share May 9, 2016 1 minute ago, looptab said: Yeah, I was talking about the HIVE lady:) I mean, it's not like Armitage was that much more prominent than her. Maybe they didn't want to write, "Nameless lady - Arrow" on there? Although I'm pretty sure she did have a name. I think. Link to comment
looptab May 9, 2016 Share May 9, 2016 (edited) 2 minutes ago, apinknightmare said: Maybe they didn't want to write, "Nameless lady - Arrow" on there? Although I'm pretty sure she did have a name. I think. Yeah, I think she was named - though I don't remember what it was. Thank you @Ceylon5 :) Edited May 9, 2016 by looptab 1 Link to comment
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