Another World - General Discussion

[Jaded]

I thought Jensen got pretty insufferable the last few years AW was on. I was thrilled for that short period Cynthia Watros filled in for her and secretly hoped that Jensen wouldn't come back.

Someone in a FB group I'm in posted a picture of Crystal Gayle which made me think of my favorite AW theme. This clip has shots of Wallingford in it too ❣️.  I always enjoy seeing the episode of Golden Girls the actor that played him was in when it's on.
 

[howmanywords]

I loved that theme so much. I wasn't crazy about that new opening and music they started in around 96.

Don't get me started on Phelps.  Not only did we have to endure Ryan's death but she created that stalker storyline leading to the disgusting and brutal death of Frankie. 

[DisneyBoy]

For those who saw Ellen W as the original Marley....did you see the same character, or shades of her, when Ellen returned?

Obviously, she was being asked to play crazy...but aside from that...did you feel the character in her?

(And how weird was it that she had to play the fact that Jake had raped Marley when she wasn't on the show when that happened or in the years following?)

She just struck me as supremely fragile, not a lawyer at all (wasn't she a lawyer?)

I liked Ellen okay - her Marley redemption story was rushed due to the cancellation, but at least she had Tyrone around 🙂

Anne Heche was awesome as Marley. I can't decide who was a better Vicky though. I saw more of JB so I'm partial to her, though Anne was great there too. Guess I have to find clips of Ellen as the twins to see what y'all meant by her clear distinction between the two.

From what I've read over the years since we have Jill Farren Phelps to thank for Paul Michael Valley being fired from the show. I found that train tracks scene on YT. Ryan and then Frankie getting murdered were two deaths on the show that peeve me off to no end. Frankie's murder was so brutal especially for the time.

Ryan's death, which was heartbreaking and a huge shock, at least felt like a smart and planned part of the story to me...they used it so well to drive story for so many characters.

Frankie's was random, drawn out and graphic. It was like a snuff film, and was real psychological torture watching her run and hide and knowing she'd die. Somehow we knew - maybe it had leaked? But it was gross.

And what story did it create? None. Cass mourned for years and us along with him. It was morbid.

Edited July 7, 2019 by DisneyBoy

[Irlandesa]

I think Phelps ended Jake and Paulina too. 

I think I've mentioned this before but Anne Heche owned me during the "Who Shot Jake?"story. There's a scene she gives which is probably one of my favorite, if not my absolute favorite, female performances ever given in any medium/genre--not just soaps.

Marley was on trial for shooting Jake (she didn't).  She had told Cass (her lawyer) about Jake raping her.  I think he was the only one who knew (although maybe she told Jamie).  Vicky didn't know.  Marley started freaking out and left town during her trial. In order to prevent Marley from getting in trouble for skipping bail or seeming more guilty by not being there, Vicky decided to pretend to be Marley in court.  She is in the courthouse and talking to Cass.  Cass mentions the rape to Vicky, who he thinks is Marley.  This is the first Vicky hears of it but she can't let on that this is brand new information to her.  Anne played it so perfectly (from what I remember).  Vicky then runs to the bathroom and freaks out. 

I think both Ellen and Anne did a great job of distinguishing the twins.  I know there are arguments about whether Ellen was a better Marley and Anne a better Vicky and who distinguished the two of them better.  People go back and forth on YouTube about it.  I preferred Anne but have a lot of affection for Ellen as well.  Ellen got the twins when their differences were the most pronounced and you see a lot of that it hair style and clothing.  Anne inherited the twins in a version where Vicky starts to have money and the polish that brought but she only gave Marley the perfect posture.

On 7/2/2019 at 11:16 PM, Jaded said:

I thought Jensen got pretty insufferable the last few years AW was on.

I'd have to agree.  Even though I had a huge bias for Anne, I loved Vicky and was willing to see what a new actress would do with the role.  But the minute I saw Jensen as Vicky, I knew it was a nope for me and that I'd at least need to take a step away from the character and try again later.  Even though she got some good stories, she never felt like the character I loved and that time away ended up lasting years.

I wasn't happy when I heard she didn't want to do Marley anymore and they sent the character away only for Vicky to become increasingly like what I imagined Marley to be. There were rumors she might not come back from maternity leave after one of her babies and I hoped they'd let her go and recast the role. 

But I still wasn't bitter until they paired her with Jake. Vicky might have been friends with Jake after what he did to Marley but a romance? Oh hell no.  That isn't Jensen's fault but it just felt like the death of the character---all of it was made even worse by what they chose to do to Marley when Ellen reprised her.

 

[CanaryFan98]

Ellen didn't feel like Marley to me I preferred JB as Marley compared to Ellen. What's even stranger was that Tom and Ellen used to be married in RL so their scenes were kind of weird to me. I didn't like the Marley nutty period myself. However I did like her a lot more when she and Donna showed on on ATWT to get custody of Jake/Vicky's twins.(yes folks on ATWT Goutman killed off Jake and Vicky)

Ryan/PMV I believe left because his then fiancee Christine Tucci(Amanda) was fired by the show. I was so sad when Ryan died however the beginning of the end with this show was when Frankie was graphically murdered while pregnant.

Cass eventually moved on with Lila though and I didn't entirely hate them but Frankie was a way better match for him then they brought back Alice Barrett as a Frankie lookalike at one point too. The last couple years of AW were just bizarre I get why it was cancelled. I think Grant/Cindy carried those last two years.

[Cupcake04]

See...this is why I love these boards so much....we all have such different likes/dislikes and I love hearing them all!  So glad we got to talking about Bay City on Days board and everyone came over here.....its had been dead in here for quite awhile...so happy to have found my fellow AW friends!!

@Irlandesa I feel the exact opposite as you for Vicky/Marley.  To me, JB WAS Vicky.  I felt like the Vicky character was just a characiture when played by EW and AH.  Vicky became her own entity on the canvas once Jensen took over the role...she was no longer just Marley's twin.  Her wardrobe/hair/makeup was the bomb to me!  Her whole persona to me changed wth Jensen and she became more than just a nasty Marley with edgy clothes and makeup.  I also loved Jensen's interactions with Donna/Michael, and if course Jake.

I really didn't like EW portrayal of Vicky at all.  Marley, yes, but Vicky no.  Maybe it was her looks idk.  Same with AH....now her yes to Vicky, but no as Marley...again I think it was looks/mannerism/voice.  

All this talk led me down a rabbit hole.....I didnt know Jensen was in jail for DWI not too long ago!  Then she got jailed again for voilating her probation when her ankle monitor said she had been drinking.....that was dismissed as a false reading but she spent a couple months in jailed before the judge dismissed it.  Some sad pics of her if you google.  She played a judge on Y&R not too long ago and was on The Bay too.  

[Irlandesa]

2 hours ago, CanaryFan98 said:

Cass eventually moved on with Lila though and I didn't entirely hate them but Frankie was a way better match for him then they brought back Alice Barrett as a Frankie lookalike at one point too. T

They did but didn't he end up back with Lila in the end? 

When SoapNet aired the 89/90 years, I fell in love with Kathleen and Cass and, even though I considered myself a Frankie/Cass fan, found myself rooting for Kathleen and Cass. 

[CanaryFan98]

3 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

They did but didn't he end up back with Lila in the end? 

When SoapNet aired the 89/90 years, I fell in love with Kathleen and Cass and, even though I considered myself a Frankie/Cass fan, found myself rooting for Kathleen and Cass. 

I did like those two more than Frankie/Cass actually after rewatch as well. Yes Cass/Lila married when AW ended. 

I liked Frankie/Cass more than Cass/Lila. At the time I was ok with Cass/Lila but I was kind of hoping Matt/Lila would really fall for each other at the time.  I did like that Cass/Maggie were still close even when it was revealed that he didn't father her and it was another one of Cecily's lies.

[CanaryFan98]

2 hours ago, Cupcake04 said:

See...this is why I love these boards so much....we all have such different likes/dislikes and I love hearing them all!  So glad we got to talking about Bay City on Days board and everyone came over here.....its had been dead in here for quite awhile...so happy to have found my fellow AW friends!!

@Irlandesa I feel the exact opposite as you for Vicky/Marley.  To me, JB WAS Vicky.  I felt like the Vicky character was just a characiture when played by EW and AH.  Vicky became her own entity on the canvas once Jensen took over the role...she was no longer just Marley's twin.  Her wardrobe/hair/makeup was the bomb to me!  Her whole persona to me changed wth Jensen and she became more than just a nasty Marley with edgy clothes and makeup.  I also loved Jensen's interactions with Donna/Michael, and if course Jake.

I really didn't like EW portrayal of Vicky at all.  Marley, yes, but Vicky no.  Maybe it was her looks idk.  Same with AH....now her yes to Vicky, but no as Marley...again I think it was looks/mannerism/voice.  

All this talk led me down a rabbit hole.....I didnt know Jensen was in jail for DWI not too long ago!  Then she got jailed again for voilating her probation when her ankle monitor said she had been drinking.....that was dismissed as a false reading but she spent a couple months in jailed before the judge dismissed it.  Some sad pics of her if you google.  She played a judge on Y&R not too long ago and was on The Bay too.  

She fell on some really hard times after her divorce her ex husband is a business partner of Robert Kraft(the Pats owner). 

However I remember JB the most as Vicky probably because I was old enough to remember her version compared to AH's and EW's. I do think Anne Heche was the best actress of the three though. 

I grew up watching GH and the NBC soaps with my mom however in the end GH and AW were the ones she watched till the end Days and SB she gave up for the most part. I can only watch Days (although at this rate probably not much longer since I don't see it lasting very long).

[DisneyBoy]

Oooh dish. Did not know EW and TE were married at some point.

When I heard on the TWOP boards about JB insisting on helicopter rides to and from set - and them agreeing to it - I saw the actress differently.

Vicky, though, for me was only ruined by the Shane/Bobby nonsense. The show pushing RKK as a hunk with Ryan's eyes was gross and dumb. I believed Vicky would mourn Ryan for years....not get all flustered around some contractor.

Jake as her new OTL felt like a weak consolation...and I felt badly for Jake, especially when Vicky nearly skipped their wedding and then tried to sleep with Shane at the cabin, inadvertantly killing him and her own father.

I wasn't really aware of the Marley rape story back in the day, or that Jake had been such a bad boy troublemaker, so Jake just seemed like a really loyal, funny, sensitive guy realizing, upon watching Vicky grieve, the extent to which he'd loved her all along. Had I known he'd slept with Donna and raped Marley....I might not have had that impression.

Jake/Paulina had more sparks, but I didn't mind Jake falling for his BFF. I hated knowing he was Vicky's fallback, and even there, she still had a wandering eye.

The one good thing from the way it all worked out was Joe as Paulina's devoted husband. Wasn't he amazing? Salt of the earth that guy. He had eyes for no one else, and I loved that the show gave Paulina that.

...I never saw Cathleen, expect for the time the actress played a woman with developmental difficulties on ER...so when I found clips of her and Cass online, that kind of colored it for me. What was Cathleen's appeal...?

[Irlandesa]

9 minutes ago, DisneyBoy said:

The one good thing from the way it all worked out was Joe as Paulina's devoted husband. Wasn't he amazing? Salt of the earth that guy. He had eyes for no one else, and I loved that the show gave Paulina that.

Great in real life. Excruciatingly boring on screen.  She was a fun character who basically became "mom" when she married Joe.  JFP didn't care about them and I think it showed. 

18 minutes ago, DisneyBoy said:

What was Cathleen's appeal...?

From what I remember, I thought they had terrific chemistry.  It's one of those rare couples who I never saw initially but whose chemistry won me over when she came back.  And it made me want to watch them from the beginning because, from what I've seen, they were written as a smart and funny couple. 1991 was more angsty but very good. Immediately, I felt they were a great match intellectually.

[CanaryFan98]

23 hours ago, DisneyBoy said:

Oooh dish. Did not know EW and TE were married at some point.

When I heard on the TWOP boards about JB insisting on helicopter rides to and from set - and them agreeing to it - I saw the actress differently.

Vicky, though, for me was only ruined by the Shane/Bobby nonsense. The show pushing RKK as a hunk with Ryan's eyes was gross and dumb. I believed Vicky would mourn Ryan for years....not get all flustered around some contractor.

Jake as her new OTL felt like a weak consolation...and I felt badly for Jake, especially when Vicky nearly skipped their wedding and then tried to sleep with Shane at the cabin, inadvertantly killing him and her own father.

I wasn't really aware of the Marley rape story back in the day, or that Jake had been such a bad boy troublemaker, so Jake just seemed like a really loyal, funny, sensitive guy realizing, upon watching Vicky grieve, the extent to which he'd loved her all along. Had I known he'd slept with Donna and raped Marley....I might not have had that impression.

Jake/Paulina had more sparks, but I didn't mind Jake falling for his BFF. I hated knowing he was Vicky's fallback, and even there, she still had a wandering eye.

The one good thing from the way it all worked out was Joe as Paulina's devoted husband. Wasn't he amazing? Salt of the earth that guy. He had eyes for no one else, and I loved that the show gave Paulina that.

...I never saw Cathleen, expect for the time the actress played a woman with developmental difficulties on ER...so when I found clips of her and Cass online, that kind of colored it for me. What was Cathleen's appeal...?

That's why I didn't care for Jake/Vicky(I liked her best with Ryan and him with Paulina) they were better suited as BFFs I could never buy her being in love with him. That being said I do love that Jake loved Vicky's kids as his own no matter what.

Yes it was sometime in the 80s they were married I think they realized they weren't right for each other in the end I mean they were able to work together despite all this so I assume it wasn't a bad divorce from what I recall.

I run hot and cold with Joe I mean he's a better man and husband than Jake but I really didn't like he how he treated the Cory's either yeah they weren't perfect but they were Paulina's family. Even Jake treated them better and most of them hated him but he did it for her.

[DisneyBoy]

Was Joe ever really against the Corys? I don't remember that. All I remember is Joe hesitating to accept money from Rachel and Carl in the final week of the show. But that didn't bug me.

As much as I liked Matt Crane and Sandra Ferguson, I don't think I ever really loved Matthew or Amanda. Then again, I missed their early years. It just struck me as odd that neither one of them could get their lives together. Matthew seemed like a total bozo for being unable to get over Sofia...but the two recasts played a bit of a part in that.

And then there was Amanda, who had a teenage daughter and money and used to be a serious business woman walking around like she was in some romance novel waiting for her prince charming. I guess that was the fault of the Jordan Stark storyline, even though I kind of liked it. But really....grow up lady!

What was Jamie Frame like? I never spent much time with the character and always wondered about his relationship with Vicky and how he related to Rachel and Matt and Amanda. I wish we could have seen some of him being a father to Steven.

I remember Cameron being rather well-liked but he felt like a retcon to me. What did you guys think of him?

Edited July 10, 2019 by DisneyBoy

[Sandman]

22 hours ago, DisneyBoy said:

What was Jamie Frame like? I never spent much time with the character and always wondered about his relationship with Vicky and how he related to Rachel and Matt and Amanda. I wish we could have seen some of him being a father to Steven.

That depends on which Jamie. I think that of all the major characters, other than Rachel, Jamie Frame might have been the most changeable with the actor who played him, in career and in relationships, familial and romantic, that were featured as important to the character, as well as in core personality. There were, what, five or six different adult versions of Jamie? A few of them I don't remember. I remember liking Stephen Yates's Jamie a lot. He had rich relationships with Rachel, Ada, and their side of the family but also with the Frames, including his half-sister Sally (he was a publisher? editor? at this point, working for Cory) and the Frame cousins.

I remember Laurence Lau (I think his Jamie was a doctor) as really dull. (How did Lau ever get so popular? AMC's Jenny and Greg were a thing, I guess, but don't ask me why.)

Edited July 10, 2019 by Sandman

[Black Knight]

On 7/7/2019 at 9:15 PM, DisneyBoy said:

He had eyes for no one else, and I loved that the show gave Paulina that.

Paulina had that with Jake, too, once Jake fell in love with her. Once he did, he never slept with another woman, even the year that they were broken up during which she was banging Ian. The writers did set up an affair between Joe and Josie, by the way, but it got scuttled before things went too far and the show went a different direction, IIRC because Tim Gibbs had exited and they recast Gary, but I don't remember too well now.

Ryan's death spun off strong story, but I think it also really ultimately hurt the show in lasting ways. It ended not just one supercouple in Ryan/Vicky, but another in Paulina/Jake in order to make Jake available for Vicky (and then quickly bogged them down in the awful triangle with Bobby/Shane, or Shabobby as some of us called him). And while I was into Jake/Vicky, the pairing did have problems because of Jake's history with Marley, and it meant Paulina went with Joe and that pairing was the ruination of her character. She lost all her spark and spirit and complexity, and became so incredibly boring after that, save for the storyline when she was hooked on pills and hit Vicky's kid on Vicky and Jake's first attempt at a wedding day. Paulina used to be one of the lead females, paired with a top male lead, and she became a supporting character paired with a supporting male lead in a boring relationship. I felt so bad for Judi Evans.

So in summation, Ryan's death ultimately destroyed two supercouples and caused the demotion of one of the best actresses/characters on the show, and in return we got a likable but problematic supercouple that didn't compare to either of the two destroyed ones and largely ate the show. Again, I did enjoy Jake/Vicky, but it wasn't worth it. Just like I liked Cass/Lila, but knocking out the tentpole couple of Cass/Frankie did permanent damage.

[nilyank]

As problematic as it was, I love Jake and Vicky. They were my two favorite characters on the show when I first started watching the show back when EW was still playing Vicky. That they were best buddies as children from the wrong side of the tracks and always scheming together was just icing for me. When she got pregnant with Steven, I wanted Jake to be the father and was happy that he was help deliver him.

I hated the twist that had Jake raped Marley.

Now I loved Jake/Paulina and Ryan/Vicky, but at the end of the day, the actor that played Ryan left the show. Recasting Ryan wouldn't guarantee that the chemistry would still be there.

I could not stand Joe and his blandness infected Paulina's storylines.

And I really, really, really hate that ATWT killed Jake and Vicky and that they never had a chance to raise their boys and girls together.

[CanaryFan98]

On 7/10/2019 at 7:22 PM, Sandman said:

That depends on which Jamie. I think that of all the major characters, other than Rachel, Jamie Frame might have been the most changeable with the actor who played him, in career and in relationships, familial and romantic, that were featured as important to the character, as well as in core personality. There were, what, five or six different adult versions of Jamie? A few of them I don't remember. I remember liking Stephen Yates's Jamie a lot. He had rich relationships with Rachel, Ada, and their side of the family but also with the Frames, including his half-sister Sally (he was a publisher? editor? at this point, working for Cory) and the Frame cousins.

I remember Laurence Lau (I think his Jamie was a doctor) as really dull. (How did Lau ever get so popular? AMC's Jenny and Greg were a thing, I guess, but don't ask me why.)

Yes his Jamie was a doctor he wasn't that fond of Vicky's mothering skills he did however taken in Kirkland after she died though so Steven/Kirkland can be raised together.

Jenny and Liza were more memorable to me than Greg was. Hell so were Jessie/Angie. 

I didn't dislike Greg but I think Jenny and Liza were better standalone characters than him. I could see either of them in any pairing on AMC and they would workout just fine. Greg not so much as other than Jenny we never really saw him again afterwards except when Jesse/Angie got married again(their second wedding was awesome btw).

[CanaryFan98]

On 7/9/2019 at 8:50 PM, DisneyBoy said:

Was Joe ever really against the Corys? I don't remember that. All I remember is Joe hesitating to accept money from Rachel and Carl in the final week of the show. But that didn't bug me.

He wouldn't let Paulina spend money she inherited from her father because he was the man of the family and he was old fashioned.

Paulina going along with it made no sense to who she originally was either....

On 7/11/2019 at 11:30 PM, Black Knight said:

Paulina had that with Jake, too, once Jake fell in love with her. Once he did, he never slept with another woman, even the year that they were broken up during which she was banging Ian. The writers did set up an affair between Joe and Josie, by the way, but it got scuttled before things went too far and the show went a different direction, IIRC because Tim Gibbs had exited and they recast Gary, but I don't remember too well now.

Ryan's death spun off strong story, but I think it also really ultimately hurt the show in lasting ways. It ended not just one supercouple in Ryan/Vicky, but another in Paulina/Jake in order to make Jake available for Vicky (and then quickly bogged them down in the awful triangle with Bobby/Shane, or Shabobby as some of us called him). And while I was into Jake/Vicky, the pairing did have problems because of Jake's history with Marley, and it meant Paulina went with Joe and that pairing was the ruination of her character. She lost all her spark and spirit and complexity, and became so incredibly boring after that, save for the storyline when she was hooked on pills and hit Vicky's kid on Vicky and Jake's first attempt at a wedding day. Paulina used to be one of the lead females, paired with a top male lead, and she became a supporting character paired with a supporting male lead in a boring relationship. I felt so bad for Judi Evans.

So in summation, Ryan's death ultimately destroyed two supercouples and caused the demotion of one of the best actresses/characters on the show, and in return we got a likable but problematic supercouple that didn't compare to either of the two destroyed ones and largely ate the show. Again, I did enjoy Jake/Vicky, but it wasn't worth it. Just like I liked Cass/Lila, but knocking out the tentpole couple of Cass/Frankie did permanent damage.

Joe never cheated on Paulina but I think that's why we ended up getting the Cameron/Josie ONS. BTW I loved Gary/Josie but only the Amy Carlson and Tim Gibbs version. Amy is the best and fave Josie Watts for me. I also loved her on Blue Bloods and hated that the show killed Linda off as I'm forever stuck with Eddie now who I can't stand.

[Black Knight]

2 hours ago, CanaryFan98 said:

He wouldn't let Paulina spend money she inherited from her father because he was the man of the family and he was old fashioned.

Paulina going along with it made no sense to who she originally was either....

There was a really stupid precedent though. Right before Paulina and Jake finally got married for real, the writers wanted to do a storyline where Jake went to a loan shark, but of course that would have made no sense because at the time, both Paulina and Jake were wealthy. So they wrote some nonsense where Jake wanted to acquire a company but it would have meant using all his money. Then they had an infuriating scene where Iris told Paulina that it never works when the woman has more money than the man (and Paulina listened to Iris for the first time ever) while Jake was told by...I forget who...how stupid it was for him not to buy the company because he had an issue with Paulina supporting them financially. (And there actually was a halfway-decent, non-offensive explanation for Jake - he'd spent a number of years being a gold-digger, including with Paulina, and had had to prove to everyone that he'd moved beyond wanting Paulina just for her money, so it would be natural for him to be a bit sensitive about taking her money now. But of course the writers totally didn't make use of that history and just made it a standard Me Tarzan thing.) So without talking to each other first, Paulina stuck all her money into an untouchable trust for a certain number of years while Jake went into debt acquiring the company. Cue the stupid loan shark storyline!

Amy Carlson chose to leave Blue Bloods, didn't she? I just saw her recently on the new Netflix show The Society.

[CanaryFan98]

2 hours ago, Black Knight said:

There was a really stupid precedent though. Right before Paulina and Jake finally got married for real, the writers wanted to do a storyline where Jake went to a loan shark, but of course that would have made no sense because at the time, both Paulina and Jake were wealthy. So they wrote some nonsense where Jake wanted to acquire a company but it would have meant using all his money. Then they had an infuriating scene where Iris told Paulina that it never works when the woman has more money than the man (and Paulina listened to Iris for the first time ever) while Jake was told by...I forget who...how stupid it was for him not to buy the company because he had an issue with Paulina supporting them financially. (And there actually was a halfway-decent, non-offensive explanation for Jake - he'd spent a number of years being a gold-digger, including with Paulina, and had had to prove to everyone that he'd moved beyond wanting Paulina just for her money, so it would be natural for him to be a bit sensitive about taking her money now. But of course the writers totally didn't make use of that history and just made it a standard Me Tarzan thing.) So without talking to each other first, Paulina stuck all her money into an untouchable trust for a certain number of years while Jake went into debt acquiring the company. Cue the stupid loan shark storyline!

Amy Carlson chose to leave Blue Bloods, didn't she? I just saw her recently on the new Netflix show The Society.

I vaguely remember this maybe there are clips of this on YT

I believe so but her whole exit was so vague I always suspected something else was involved much like Taraji leaving Person of Interest but I digress. 

Glad she found something else although I don't watch anything on Netflix is The Society any good.

[SomeTameGazelle]

4 hours ago, Black Knight said:

he had an issue with Paulina supporting them financially. (And there actually was a halfway-decent, non-offensive explanation for Jake - he'd spent a number of years being a gold-digger, including with Paulina, and had had to prove to everyone that he'd moved beyond wanting Paulina just for her money, so it would be natural for him to be a bit sensitive about taking her money now. 

Jake also had an issue with not being the provider when he and Marley were engaged. If they had presented it as his need to be really scrupulous about not seeming to take advantage because they had met when he was trying to help her twin take her inheritance, that might have made sense, but as far as I recall it was just masculine pride.

[Black Knight]

On 7/14/2019 at 5:53 PM, CanaryFan98 said:

Glad she found something else although I don't watch anything on Netflix is The Society any good.

I enjoy it, but I should mention her role's minimal. The premise is that the teenagers of a town have been mysteriously taken away to a new locale (that looks exactly like the old town except that there are now woods on all sides), and must set up a "society" in order to survive. The whole show is about the teenagers, so we barely see the adults. Carlson plays one of the parents, so we only see her in the season premiere and finale, IIRC.

If the talk that she left Blue Bloods because she wanted to work less is true (I know there were a number of speculative angles), taking the part on The Society certainly wouldn't get in the way of that goal. But it was nice to see her. She's aged well. She and Tim Gibbs had wonderful chemistry on AW. I still remember when Gary and Josie kissed for the first time - yowza!

@SomeTameGazelle so the stupid inconsistency goes back really far! (I never saw the Jake/Marley years - I came in during Jake/Paulina.)  It doesn't make much sense for a guy to be just fine living off rich women some of the time but be all "Me Provider" some of the time. If like you and I said, the writers had it that he became sensitive about it with Marley and Paulina because of the original money-grubbing reasons his relationships with them started, that would have made more sense.

Edited July 16, 2019 by Black Knight

[CanaryFan98]

I don't know if you watch Blue Bloods(BTW if you don't I highly recommend it) but she wasn't on that much on that show beyond the family scenes. It was mostly about the Reagans and their jobs.

However yes Amy has aged well she looks good for her 50s.

Quote

Former Soap Star Sally Spencer Passes Away At 64

She was only on Another World for a short time in the 1980s, but during that time Sally Spencer touched many lives as M.J. McKinnon, oldest sister of the McKinnon clan with a haunted past and a soaring singing voice.

According to Ed Fry, the actor who played M.J.’s love interest, Adam Cory, Spencer passed away Saturday after a battle with leukemia.

“My friend and colleague, Sally Spencer, passed away yesterday. She had been ill with leukemia, treated, home and by all accounts doing well,” Fry wrote on Facebook.

Spencer was a singer before she ever became an actress and started her career singing backup for Perry Como, Tanya Tucker, and The Carpenters, and then had a lead role in Cats in Los Angeles before moving to NY to play M.J. on Another World.

During that time, she touched this writer’s 15-year-old life by taking her and a friend on set tours and inviting us for her last day taping playing M.J. She also gifted us the bouquets from the soap’s aborted Adam and M.J. wedding. For a teen fan living in Brooklyn where Another World was taped, this was truly something.

Spencer eventually made a career change and became a Professor of Special Education at California State University, Northridge where she helped pioneer technology for virtual social work, counseling, and teaching.

But to many soap fans in the 1980s, she will remain the actress who brought M.J. to life and brought the song If You Say My Eyes Are Beautiful to soaps.

sends our sincerest condolences to Spencer’s family and friends during this difficult time.

https://soaphub.com/days-of-our-lives/former-beloved-soap-star-sally-spencer-passes-away-64/

[SomeTameGazelle]

10 hours ago, CanaryFan98 said:

However yes Amy has aged well she looks good for her 50s.

She also has a small part in A Bread Factory, Part One and I had a hard time grasping how her character had grandchildren.

10 hours ago, CanaryFan98 said:

According to Ed Fry, the actor who played M.J.’s love interest, Adam Cory, Spencer passed away Saturday after a battle with leukemia.

Very sorry to hear this but how nice that Sally and Ed remained friends. I enjoyed them as MJ and Adam even though Margaret DePriest really damaged the character of MJ.

[SomeTameGazelle]

12 hours ago, Black Knight said:

 It doesn't make much sense for a guy to be just fine living off rich women some of the time but be all "Me Provider" some of the time.

I think it was supposed to be a marker of when Jake was Really In Love (and of course a contrivance to drive plot when there was no other romantic conflict in the relationship).

[DisneyBoy]

On 7/14/2019 at 3:34 PM, CanaryFan98 said:

Yes his Jamie was a doctor he wasn't that fond of Vicky's mothering skills he did however taken in Kirkland after she died though so Steven/Kirkland can be raised together.

Was that stated on ATWT? Did someone just say he was taking Kirkland in or did he appear? (I saw practically nothing of ATWT)

I find it hard to believe Jake would let Kirkland go...they were so close.

Why did the whole Jake dies plot out of their butts in the first place? I was watching someone regularly at the time and yet it seemed to come out of nowhere, with Jake and begging Vicky for money and then getting killed anyways and then them showing that he was still alive. At least that's how I remember it. Did Tom actually leave the show for a few months and then get brought back? Or was it just a way to allow grieving widow Paulina to get hit on by Joe, and establish him as her new love interest?

I was scanning YT for clips of the AW characters on As the World Turns, and it seems like they still had the sets of Vicky and Jake's house and also the set for the Harbor Club when Tom and Jensen migrated to Oakdale. How long did that go on for? Did they manage to film just a couple of scenes in the old AW studios before the sets were broken down?

[CanaryFan98]

4 hours ago, DisneyBoy said:

Was that stated on ATWT? Did someone just say he was taking Kirkland in or did he appear? (I saw practically nothing of ATWT)

I find it hard to believe Jake would let Kirkland go...they were so close.

Why did the whole Jake dies plot out of their butts in the first place? I was watching someone regularly at the time and yet it seemed to come out of nowhere, with Jake and begging Vicky for money and then getting killed anyways and then them showing that he was still alive. At least that's how I remember it. Did Tom actually leave the show for a few months and then get brought back? Or was it just a way to allow grieving widow Paulina to get hit on by Joe, and establish him as her new love interest?

I was scanning YT for clips of the AW characters on As the World Turns, and it seems like they still had the sets of Vicky and Jake's house and also the set for the Harbor Club when Tom and Jensen migrated to Oakdale. How long did that go on for? Did they manage to film just a couple of scenes in the old AW studios before the sets were broken down?

It was mentioned this happened. I find it hard to believe too but I also think Jake wouldn't want Steven/Kirkland to not grow up together either. Plus the show wanted Jake to move on with Molly and I did like them together and they raised his girls until he died and then Donna/Marley sued for custody of them. 

Tom left the show at the time although I don't remember why.

As far as ATWT/AW it wasn't for very long although it was nice to see Cass, Lila etc again.

[Irlandesa]

49 minutes ago, CanaryFan98 said:

Tom left the show at the time although I don't remember why.

He was fired.  They brought some AW characters over to try and lure some AW viewers since they were both P&G soaps and aired at the same time in many parts of the country. Since Jake was one of the most popular AW stars, I think he was given the contract and integrated into the canvas the most as opposed to the short recurring appearances by others.  IIRC, Jensen didn't want to come which is why Vicky was killed.

As Tom's 3 year contract came to an end, ATWT decided they were done with the AW characters.

Instead of writing a nice ending for Jake, one in which he and Molly end up splitting (and....oh....I don't know, reuniting him with a now single-in-my-head  Paulina?) they killed him off. 

Edited July 16, 2019 by Irlandesa

[CanaryFan98]

1 minute ago, Irlandesa said:

He was fired.  They brought some AW characters over to try and lure some AW viewers since they were both P&G soaps and aired at the same time in many parts of the country. Since Jake was one of the most popular AW stars, I think he was given the contract and integrated into the canvas the most as opposed to the short recurring appearances by others.  IIRC, Jensen didn't want to come which is why Vicky was killed.

Instead of writing a nice ending for Jake, one in which he and Molly end up splitting (and....oh....I don't know, reuniting him with a now single-in-my-head  Paulina?) they killed him off. 

I was referring to when Jake was presumed dead while married to Paulina and he was gone for a period of time before we found out he was alive but had amnesia.

I knew he was fired from ATWT.

[Irlandesa]

1 minute ago, CanaryFan98 said:

I was referring to when Jake was presumed dead while married to Paulina and he was gone for a period of time before we found out he was alive but had amnesia.

Oops.  I knew that from when I read it this afternoon but forgot by the time I came here to reply. 

Yeah, I forget why Tom left for that short while--if his contract came to a stalemate or if he just wanted some time off.

[Black Knight]

3 hours ago, CanaryFan98 said:

I was referring to when Jake was presumed dead while married to Paulina and he was gone for a period of time before we found out he was alive but had amnesia.

Eplin's contract was up and he decided he wanted to see what else he could get - he'd tried to get other gigs before, back during the Jake/Marley days, and wanted to try again. He didn't take very long exploring his options before deciding that he would rather return to AW. I remember him talking about his epiphany in an interview - it was something like, "I was sitting in a room waiting to audition for a video game and I realized this was nuts, I'm scrabbling out here for a video game when I have a show that wants me back."

What I found interesting was that when he returned, AW chose to do the same thing with his character that it was doing with Vicky's - turn these characters who had always been largely amoral schemers who constantly fucked up into classic heroes/heroines. Amnesiac Jake returned once again a rich man, but this time he kept his wealth, and even though he regained his memory he didn't go back to being the Jake of old. He never got involved in another shady scheme. Vicky kept her own hands pretty clean as well, except for nearly cheating on Jake with Shane and then trying to keep that secret, but even then, she stopped herself from going through with the cheating and then she owned up relatively quick in order to save Jake from some stupid legal nonsense Lila had contrived.

I remember reading the then-headwriter describing the love triangle of Jake/Vicky/Bobby as an Arthurian one in which Jake was King Arthur, and knew at that minute the Jake of old was gone forever. I didn't entirely have a problem with it because Jake's later schemes were just painfully stupid and contrived (I complained about the loan shark one above, which was his last one) and I was relieved to be done with those, but it was just such an abrupt shift. I assumed at first it was just a temporary effect of his amnesia, in the classic tradition of soap amnesiac storylines, but he recovered his memory almost immediately after his return.

[CanaryFan98]

Jake was still interesting to me even when he became decent probably because he still wasn't above being shady when pushed and still had a bit of an edge to him. Something current soap writers don't get with nice characters they can have nuance and edge and not be completely good while the bad characters get all the personality and interesting traits.

[CanaryFan98]

https://variety.com/2019/film/news/david-hedison-dead-dies-the-fly-voyage-to-the-bottom-of-the-sea-1203275257/

David Hedison, Actor in ‘Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea’ and ‘The Fly’, Dies at 92

 
David Hedison, a film, television, and theater actor known for his role as Captain Lee Crane in the sci-fi adventure television series “Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea” and as the crazed scientist turned human insect in the first iteration of the film “The Fly,” died on July 18. He was 92, and the family said in a statement that he “died peacefully” with his daughters at his side.

“Even in our deep sadness, we are comforted by the memory of our wonderful father. He loved us all dearly and expressed that love every day. He was adored by so many, all of whom benefited from his warm and generous heart. Our dad brought joy and humor wherever he went and did so with great style,” said the family in a statement.

David Hedison, born Al Hedison, was from Providence, R.I. and studied at Brown University where he grew fond of the theater, becoming a part of the university’s theater production group “Sock and Buskin Players.” He then moved to New York, studying with Sanford Meisner at “The Neighborhood Playhouse” as well as Lee Strasberg of “The Actor’s Studio.” In the 1950s, he appeared in “Much Ado About Nothing” and “A Month in the Country,” working with Uta Hagen and Michael Redgrave on productions by Clifford Odets and Christopher Fry, among others.

Shortly after “A Month in the Country,” Hedison first hit the big screen with his role in the 1957 film “The Enemy Below” and in the 1958 film “Son of Robin Hood.” He also played André Delambre in “The Fly,” (1958) which became a cult phenomenon and sparked a remake in 1986 with Jeff Goldblum reprising the role. Hedison then signed with Twentieth Century Fox in 1959 and changed his first name to David, his given middle name. In 1964, he hit his big television break as Captain Lee Crane in producer Irwin Allen’s “Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea,” which ran until 1968.

He also joined Roger Moore in the 1973 James Bond film “Live and Let Die” as well as Timothy Dalton in 1989 with “License to Kill,” becoming the first actor to play CIA agent Felix Leiter twice. In the 1980s and 1990s, he worked on shows such as “Another World,” “T.J. Hooker,” “Dynasty,” “The Love Boat,” “Who’s the Boss” and “The Colbys.”

According to family members, Hedison joked during his final days that “instead of RIP he preferred SRO ‘Standing Room Only.'” They said that he was “tall and strikingly handsome,” and “a true actor through and through.”

Hedison’s wife, Bridget, a production associate on “Dynasty” and an assistant to producer on “The Colbys,” died in 2016. He is survived by two daughters; Serena and Alexandra, an actress and director who is married to Jodie Foster.

[Cupcake04]

[DisneyBoy]

I spent some time this weekend watching old clips, in particular Vicky and Jake's wedding and Michael's death and funeral. It all makes me ask some serious questions...

How did they expect Vicky to be a sympathetic character let alone a rootable one through all of that?

Vicky's appeal was already damaged by killing off Ryan. Fans couldn't see her on-screen anymore without thinking about what she and we had lost out on.

Then they pair her up with the second best option, Jake, who had already slept with her mother and raped her sister. Awkward to be sure, but at least the two actors had chemistry and the characters had a solid friendship to build from. And yet it still wasn't easy for the audience to get behind them as a couple, to the point that they had to bring back Ryan and stage wedding in heaven just to appease everyone's broken hearts. Fine.

...but in the midst of all this, they had her also being attracted to Bobby/Shane and essentially leading both he and Jake on. That's not a good look, even for a somewhat bad girl character like Vicky. And it dragged on and on to the point where even on her wedding day, her immediate family wasn't sure if she would show up to marry Jake or run away to screw Shane! He even shows up at the ceremony just to check if she won't change her mind at the last minute. That seems like a pretty desperate move but it turns out he's right on the money because a few weeks after getting married, Vicky's sneaking off to his cabin ostensibly to shag him...

...which inadvertently gets her father killed.

...how could we possibly root for Vicky in the midst of all of this? If she really loved Jake (which we know she doesn't, she's only with him because Ryan is dead, but let's just not think about that), why not cut Shane completely out of her life? And if she was tempted by Shane, why not be a good enough friend to Jake to simply tell him that she needs some time and can't commit to him right now. I don't think anyone would blame her for having a rebound guy in the midst of her grief. She could have had plenty of sex with Shane and then maybe later revisited the subject of having a long-term relationship with Jake. That certainly would have been more dignified then allowing Jake to constantly babysit her kids and play dad to them all the while making eyes at the guy standing outside the living room window.

Where it gets especially ugly is in the aftermath of her wedding vows, which no one forced her to take, where her near tryst with Shane leaves Michael dead. Her grief and pain over the whole mess was well played, but it really is all her fault. Yes, it was a freak accident, but when your retirement age parents have to chase you down to stop you from cheating on your husband, you've utterly failed as a mature adult. I don't think I ever looked at Vicky the same way after all of those story twists and piss poor decisions. She's damn lucky Jake hung in there as long as he did. Vicky really wasn't worth the trouble.

And I haven't even gotten back on the subject of Vicky constantly either playing nice with Grant or flirting with him to try to manipulate him. Grant was way too dangerous and powerful and obsessive to mess with. Vicky tried to act like such a tough person but the truth was he always had more power in pretty much every situation. All she could do when he used that power against her was kidnap her children and run away, which miraculously never saw her lose custody or end up in jail. She didn't seem to see any problem with batting her eyes or puckering up her lips to best him, and if those were the only weapons she had in her arsenal it's a pretty clear indicator that she shouldn't have been messing with him at all.

The thing is, I like Vicki. And I liked Jensen Buchanan playing Vicky. But boy did I hate her last few years of story, and re-watching pieces of it reminded me of why.

To be honest though, I don't think I ever actually saw the whole wedding before. Why did they go on location and have such a lavish shoot if they knew they were going to have Vicky contemplating cheating on Jake days later? I would think they would only go all out for a couple that they were determined to show were completely devoted to each other.

Also, my heart broke for Donna. I didn't know all of her history with Michael and certainly wasn't watching for all the years they were on Another World, but Anna Stewart really sold the depths of her love for her ex-husband. Talk about having to keep a straight face. Donna surely must have been pissed off with Vicky as well, but as her mother had to hold her anger back.

[Sandman]

Anna Stuart was a highly capable actress -- probably underrated. I didn't like every storyline for her (Donna's romance with Matthew was just WRONG on just about every possible level) and not everything was her strong suit, but when the writing actually allowed her to play to her strengths, she could knock it right out of the park. Donna's relationships with Michael and their children contained some of her best work.

[DisneyBoy]

She played another character on another soap after AW closed up - who was it?

[SomeTameGazelle]

25 minutes ago, DisneyBoy said:

She played another character on another soap after AW closed up - who was it?

IIRC she was on All My Children, possibly as Greenlee's mother?

Anna Stuart was divine IMO and it was hard to see what they did to the character of Donna during the Philece Sampler years. Anna Stuart portrayed both Donna the snob and Donna the broken child exquisitely. She interfered in Peter and Marley's love lives because it had been so ingrained in her that the Love family could only marry people of their class. And she was a bit obsessed with Catlin because he reminded her of Michael whom she had lost.

[Black Knight]

On 9/1/2019 at 7:16 PM, DisneyBoy said:

Then they pair her up with the second best option, Jake, who had already slept with her mother and raped her sister. Awkward to be sure, but at least the two actors had chemistry and the characters had a solid friendship to build from. And yet it still wasn't easy for the audience to get behind them as a couple, to the point that they had to bring back Ryan and stage wedding in heaven just to appease everyone's broken hearts. Fine.

Actually, Ryan's appearance was intended to get fans on board with Vicky/Bobby. At that point in time, TPTB were determined to do Vicky/Bobby, since Robert Kelker-Kelly had been such a high-profile get for the show, and were setting up to finally do Jake/Amanda, a pairing that had been teased for years but always been derailed by the popularity of the Jake/Paulina pairing. Since Jake/Paulina were finally dead (sigh), TPTB thought they would finally have the opportunity to do a Jake/Amanda pairing.

But fans hated Vicky/Bobby, hated Laura Moss's Amanda (I was one of the few who liked her), and wanted Vicky/Jake. The wedding in heaven to Ryan (which originally had been supposed to happen back when he first died, and was cut even though it was shot) did not change opinions. Michael Malone became headwriter, and rebooted Bobby Reno into Shane Roberts to try to save RKK's character and the pairing. But the fans still wanted Vicky/Jake over Vicky/Shabobby, and meanwhile RKK was once again alienating another leading lady in Jensen Buchanan, while Buchanan and Tom Eplin got on well together.

Finally the show accepted that RKK would have to go and that Vicky/Jake would be the pairing. That's when AW did an entire bottle episode with them shot in various locations around NYC, abruptly changing course in order to establish Vicky/Jake as the couple. And then they were given the very lavish wedding. They wrapped up the lingering Shane attraction with Vicky making out with him and then deciding to stop, and killed him off immediately, which is why it didn't really bother Vicky/Jake fans much. I actually rather enjoyed all that because after years of Vicky and Jake having been turned into the classic heroine and hero, it was nice to see them get back to harder edges for a bit.

[Jaded]

I had forgotten about Laura Moss being one of the actresses who portrayed Amanda.

Since it was before my time watching as someone who actually knew what was going on I'm wondering if anyone here can share what led to Philece Sampler portraying Donna. I remember seeing the show when my Mom would watch when I was really young but didn't really have any idea what was going on. I always remembered the characters Wallingford, Felicia and Cass from that time though. I didn't start watching the show as an actual viewer until the early 90's.

[DisneyBoy]

10 hours ago, Black Knight said:

The wedding in heaven to Ryan (which originally had been supposed to happen back when he first died, and was cut even though it was shot

...whaaaaa?!? So they already scripted and shot a wedding in heaven for Ricky (Vyan?) to air right after he passed from the gunshot wounds?

...no way! Get outta town!

Where did you hear this? Why didn't they air it? Why eat the cost of doing all that, not airing it...and then rescripting and reshooting the same concept a year later?

[Black Knight]

10 hours ago, DisneyBoy said:

Where did you hear this?

From no other than Paul Michael Valley. He gave an interview shortly before Ryan's on-air death in which he gave out the spoiler that Vicky and Ryan would have a fantasy wedding in heaven "just as good" as if they had married. But as you know, it didn't air. Maybe TPTB ended up deciding that it would feel like salt in the wounds of Vicky/Ryan fans. PMV's spoiler did give them the chance to preview fan reaction.

Of course, then later they gave Bobby Reno Ryan's corneas as an attempt to make him the Ryan-designated choice for Vicky, like if she fell in love with Bobby it was like she was back with Ryan or something. But that failed completely - fans were unimpressed by the "Ryan connection" and still wanted her with Jake instead.

I do wonder just how long TPTB would have kept swimming against audience opinion if not for RKK being such an asshole that Buchanan was done with him. There is something seriously wrong with that guy. Because of his history, to even get the role he had to first meet with Buchanan and get her approval. He charmed her, so she approved the casting. (I remember Linda Dano being very dubious at the time even as she was expressing hopes that it would work out okay. "Jensen likes him...") So he knew going in what thin ice he was on and the importance of staying on good terms with Buchanan. But assholes gonna asshole.

[Jaded]

Was RKK a raging asshole during his first go around on AW as  Sam Fowler?

[Black Knight]

Not sure. It was his first job, so he might have restrained himself more as he wasn't a name yet. And Sandra Ferguson also wasn't a name then (or ever, really), so if she did have complaints she was unlikely to be vocal about them to TPTB unlike RKK's later leading ladies who were all A-list on their shows.

I don't remember if Ferguson said anything in later years after RKK was exposed.

[CanaryFan98]

On 9/8/2019 at 5:33 PM, Jaded said:

Was RKK a raging asshole during his first go around on AW as  Sam Fowler?

Yes he apparently threw a chair at Sandra Fergson(Amanda) during one of their scenes in a coke induced rage. That was her breaking point and she begged the producers to break them up etc. I believe he got fired shortly after and the Evan/Amanda affair took place.

[MsTree]

7 hours ago, CanaryFan98 said:

Yes he apparently threw a chair at Sandra Fergson(Amanda) during one of their scenes in a coke induced rage.

Wow...that's horrible! I thought he was fired because he was having an affair with a young or underage co-worker (Mimi?).

What else has this guy done to be ostracized?

[Jaded]

1 hour ago, MsTree said:

Wow...that's horrible! I thought he was fired because he was having an affair with a young or underage co-worker (Mimi?).

What else has this guy done to be ostracized?

He was dating the really young girl Miriam Parrish who he eventually married while working on Days of Our Lives. The actresses there didn't want to put up with him either other then the one who was young enough that he could get away with things that older women probably wouldn't tolerate. They were married from 1997-2013 and she got remarried almost a year and a half after their divorce was reportedly final. I do wonder if they were separated for awhile before divorcing because I'm nosy like that at times. She seemed like a sweet girl so knowing she was with him until she was almost 40 kinda makes me sad. I found pictures of her with her new husband and them doing local theater promotion where she looked really happy. She was in a movie that came out in 2017 that I caught on TV called Bad Grandmas that was pretty entertaining and she was good in it.

After RKK left acting full time he became a professional pilot and according to his wiki is now a flight instructor. When he made appearances on GH in 2013/14 he was awful acting wise. His character was supposed to be a bad guy but wow seeing his behavior in scenes was like watching a bad soap parody.
 

[CanaryFan98]

15 hours ago, MsTree said:

Wow...that's horrible! I thought he was fired because he was having an affair with a young or underage co-worker (Mimi?).

What else has this guy done to be ostracized?

That was Days but he also sexually harrassed his coworkers and KA, LR etc teamed up to get rid of him. Then they brought back Peter Reckell.

Sandra was Amanda on AW and this was why he was fired.

[SomeTameGazelle]

31 minutes ago, CanaryFan98 said:

That was Days but he also sexually harrassed his coworkers and KA, LR etc teamed up to get rid of him. Then they brought back Peter Reckell.

Sandra was Amanda on AW and this was why he was fired.

Wasn't he married to an AW production assistant before Days?

[CanaryFan98]

28 minutes ago, SomeTameGazelle said:

Wasn't he married to an AW production assistant before Days?

Yes Linda Rattner