Re-watch: Season 3 - Experience the Universe and Eat Pie

[solotrek]

Mythos achievement unlocked.

[BooksRule]

My first post on this site (hope I do it right!).  Season three is a good one for me to start my re-watch.  'Shades of Grey', '100 days' (that one has great music), 'Crystal Skull', and 'Nemesis'.  I also think that Jack looks his best during this season (and he's still snarky and not so grouchy).

[solotrek]

Season three is a good one for me to start my re-watch.  'Shades of Grey', '100 days' (that one has great music), 'Crystal Skull', and 'Nemesis'.  I also think that Jack looks his best during this season (and he's still snarky and not so grouchy).

 

Shades of Grey is definitely one of my favorite SG1 episodes of all time.  You know, I've never paid attention to the music in 100 days before, so I'll check that out when I watch the episode.

[elle]

Did you that if you type in "Nick and the Giant Aliens" (without quotes) it will direct you to a couple of Stargate sites?  Still waiting for that album, guys!

 

"Crystal Skull", I wasn't sure what season that was, so the above search.  Fun episode, with classic lines.

 

Jackson: You can see me?
Ballard: Yes, Daniel. I can see you.
Jackson: Why didn't you say something?
Ballard: You are not real, so, it doesn't mean anything.
Jackson: No! No, no, no, no! Nick! Nick, I'm real! I'm real! You're not hallucinating!
Ballard: Hallucinations always say that.

 

O'Neill: (About Fraiser) Napoleonic power monger.

[stillshimpy]

I've been dutifully watching season three and I never have a great deal to say about this season.  Until Forever in a Day I just have never really clicked that much with season three.  I think because it just starts out on very iffy ground for me.  Into the Fire part II is just not an episode that I find improves with rewatches.  It worked well the first few times I saw it, but it starts playing up the Jack and Sam ship, for starters.  

 

I've actually got nothing against that 'ship, it's just that the writers jerked the fans of it around so much it's like watching them gear up to kick a bunch of the fanbase in the chops.  Plus, Hathor and some very early CGI that looks so incredibly bad.  Then Seth right after that and worse still Fair Game which officially started screwing around with Teal'c's back-story in a way that made it stick out like an awkward story-elbow.  "Cronus killed my father!"  Oh goody, they couldn't have come up with anything better than that?  Couldn't he just hate him for some less "I know you've known me for years, and there was that whole disaster with my having a wife and child that I failed to mention...but let me tell you more about my family.  Almost everything having to do with them will cause me to screw up my job here.  Whee."  Also, still more early efforts to make use of special effects.  Besides, mentions of the Ree-2 (however it might be spelled) are always a little irritating because they were treated as a giant threat...and then they just went away.  

 

I do like Legacy even if I think the team didn't twig to the "Hey, I wonder if something went wrong on our mission and Daniel isn't just a raving lunatic?"  as soon as they should have.  Shanks got to act his butt off, but the other members of the team were a little too difficult to convince.  

 

So anyway, the season starts picking up for me with Learning Curve and that's one of my favorite Jack-centered episodes.  It does a really rather good job of presenting the moral dilemma of worlds that just function differently, and I've always liked that the girl essentially had a plan to change her world for the better.  

 

Season three builds into a season I really enjoy, although I always get a kick out of Deadman Switch just because I know Aris Boch was supposed to become a recurring character and something just went freaking wrong, where they all could barely stand the actor playing him (Flash Gordon).  Although the SG1 showrunners were always fairly diplomatic about guest stars -- it was the one area they usually did put on company manners when talking about guest actors -- it always amused me that whatever went on with that actor was so bad they didn't even feel the need to politely cover with "scheduling conflicts precluded making him a recurring character" and instead were all "Yup, we hated that guy.  He hated all of us.  We're a bunch of Canadians and we're admitting it...that guy is a twerp and we hope to never work with him again."   It always startles me a little bit just how upfront they really were about that. 

Edited June 23, 2014 by stillshimpy

[solotrek]

Season three builds into a season I really enjoy, although I always get a kick out of Deadman Switch just because I know Aris Boch was supposed to become a recurring character and something just went freaking wrong, where they all could barely stand the actor playing him (Flash Gordon).--- it always amused me that whatever went on with that actor was so bad they didn't even feel the need to politely cover with "scheduling conflicts precluded making him a recurring character" and instead were all "Yup, we hated that guy.

 

I never knew that! I knew he was supposed to be recurring but something happened, but I never knew it was because of the actor. Where can we read more about that?

[stillshimpy]

Pretty sure that one is from the DVD commentaries and conventions, maculae, but I know it's a fairly well known story.  I don't recall reading about it in an interview or anything like that.  

 

Do you have the DVDs?  If not, I can check mine to see what the commentary has to say on it, but if you look at the actor's IMDb, Sam J. Jones really worked very infrequently in the last fifteen years or so.  

 

I don't think he did anything particularly colorful or fascinating, I think he was just really difficult to work with, as the story goes. 

Edited June 23, 2014 by stillshimpy

[QuiGonJ]

I did just rewatch Season 3. I never knew that was the problem. Sad, because I thought he was a great character... "See, despite what you think, the Earth is NOT the center of the universe." I though that could have opened up the show to civilized planets that weren't fighting the G'aould, just living under them, which would have made sense. I agree that Shades of Grey and 100 Days were great stories.

[theredhead77]

So we're almost in June, a year later. Anyone want to pick up where we left off?

[blueray]

I would. Is it season 6?

[theredhead77]

I would. Is it season 6?

The [now defunct] Great Re-Watch Planning schedule says June is season 3 and this thread is season 3. But hell, the whole thing has been dead a year. We can do whatever we want. What say you?

 

http://forums.previously.tv/topic/2261-sg1-the-great-rewatch-planning-committee/

I would. Is it season 6?

The [now defunct] Great Re-Watch Planning schedule says June is season 3 and this thread is season 3. But hell, the whole thing has been dead a year. We can do whatever we want. What say you?

 

http://forums.previously.tv/topic/2261-sg1-the-great-rewatch-planning-committee/

[blueray]

I would participate if there was one.

[theredhead77]

I would participate if there was one.

I'm going to revive the Great Watch Planning Committee thread.

[John Potts]

I loved the Reetoo (that's how I spell them anyway) because they approached their Goa'uld problem logically: attack their weak point. Unfortunately, that weak point was US, but it's nothing SGC (or at least the NID) wouldn't do themselves. Evidently they liked the idea because it was revisited on SG:A with their Replicators.

[DittyDotDot]

Okay, so I've gotten to about mid-S3 and I have little recollection of most these episodes. It's been an interesting refresher.

But, why I popped in here was I just finished watching Jolinar's Memories and the episode itself didn't do too much for me, I gotta say, O'Neil was cracking me the hell up! 

Martouf: Without wanting to sound overly dramatic, the fate of the galaxy may be at stake.
O’Neill: Sounds a bit overly dramatic.

Daniel: You said "Hell," right?
O'Neill: Well, I'm gonna end up there sooner or later. Might as well check out the neighborhood, huh?

Martouf: Should we embark?
O'Neill: By all means... To Hell with us.

Daniel: My lungs are burning.
O'Neill: Well, at least it's a dry heat.

Jacob: Am I dreaming?
Carter: No. No, we’re real.
Jacob: Are you crazy?
O’Neill: Apparently.

And, every time Jack called Martouf "Marty" had me giggling too. 

 

 Just to back up a tad, though, most of S3 has been a mixed bag so far.

• It kinda got off to a slow start, but then Legacy came along and surprised me as did Learning Curve and Past and Present. I was really engaged with these three episodes and enjoyed having a refresher on them.
• Wanted to really like Fair Game--and some aspects of it I did--but it kinda fell apart for me by the end of it all.
• Point of View, Demons, and Seth I could've lived without refreshing my memory on. Although, it didn't hurt me to do it either.
• Forever in a Day is a weird one for me. I like the twisty structure of the episode and it was nice for Daniel to get some closure with his wife, but the whole special kid thing doesn't really compute for me for some reason. Plus, something just felt off about Daniel throughout the episode. I don't know what, but there was something.

On 6/23/2014 at 9:13 AM, stillshimpy said:

Season three builds into a season I really enjoy, although I always get a kick out of Deadman Switch just because I know Aris Boch was supposed to become a recurring character and something just went freaking wrong, where they all could barely stand the actor playing him (Flash Gordon).  Although the SG1 showrunners were always fairly diplomatic about guest stars -- it was the one area they usually did put on company manners when talking about guest actors -- it always amused me that whatever went on with that actor was so bad they didn't even feel the need to politely cover with "scheduling conflicts precluded making him a recurring character" and instead were all "Yup, we hated that guy.  He hated all of us.  We're a bunch of Canadians and we're admitting it...that guy is a twerp and we hope to never work with him again."   It always startles me a little bit just how upfront they really were about that. 

That's really funny! I was always a casual viewer of this show so I don't know any of the behind-the-scenes shenanigans that went on. It's also funny that in a season of episodes I've mostly forgotten, Deadman Switch is the one I remember fairly clearly for some reason. Brains are weird little places. ;)

[theredhead77]

On 11/18/2016 at 9:36 PM, DittyDotDot said:

• Forever in a Day is a weird one for me. I like the twisty structure of the episode and it was nice for Daniel to get some closure with his wife, but the whole special kid thing doesn't really compute for me for some reason. Plus, something just felt off about Daniel throughout the episode. I don't know what, but there was something.

FIAD is one of my least favorite episodes. There is something off about Daniel and I never bought he was in love with Shar'e.

Which is amusing since Michael Shanks was married to the actress and sparks should have been firing off of them without trying. There were more sparks off of Jack and Daniel, and... wait for it...I was firmly aboard the USS Jack n Sam and never saw anything between Jack and Daniel the first time I watched SG-1, which was also before I discovered the fandom.

[BkWurm1]

I went into the show a fan of Daniel and Sha're's relationship from the movie and so I was really invested in his attempts to rescue her in the first season but after they had him find her back home in hiding while she was pregnant and his first reaction was to not be able to handle it, the relationship lost a lot of its shine.  Plus the way that Shar're's focus shifted from surviving and getting home to sacrificing her life to protect the child, it felt like Daniel was in the end, more invested in their brief marriage than she was.

I liked FIAD for at least containing an event that could have taken over a whole season (the rift between Daniel and Teal'c) and by that point in the series I was good with letting Daniel move on from being tied to Sha're but ultimately the story line centered around the kid was sort of awful.  Or at least the resolution was not great and Daniel's search to protect the child of two hosts just wasn't as compelling as him searching for his wife.  So from that standpoint, the episode was always iffy to me.  Still, as a fan of Daniel's overall character arc, it was an important stepping stone.  

I used to wonder if Sha're had actually been rescued, if their marriage would have thrived.  The marriage worked on Abydos because Daniel assimilated to the culture, found mental fulfillment when he immersed himself in learning the history and person fulfillment in the close connection not only with Sha're but in the whole extended family.  But I couldn't see Sha're embracing earth's culture or finding the same kind of fulfillment in his lifestyle on earth.  And in the three years that Daniel had been with the Stargate program, he'd changed enough where I don't think he'd have been content to return to Abydos and stick his head in the sand.   Too much had happened for them to go back to the simple life.   

He'd want to continue the fight and that meant staying on earth and that would have meant a very lonely and isolated life for Sha're if she stayed with him.  He had no family apart from his team and really no life apart from his missions or studies.  As smart or brave or strong willed as Sha're was portrayed as, she still was deeply entrenched in her cultural norms so life on earth would have been even more foreign to her than the life of a host.  Had she lived, I kind of would have expected her to eventually leave Daniel to go home to her family.

 She had spirit and passion but in this episode, she expended her will on saying goodbye and passing on a message rather than trying to do something that would get her back to Daniel.  It felt like she was giving up and letting go which was a marked contrast to Daniel who proved to be the ultimate survivor.  Perhaps even by the third season, Daniel had already changed too much from who he'd been while married to her for them ever to have had a shot at their HEA.  This episode at least gave some closure to his search and ultimate failure.  He couldn't save her, but when it mattered most, she wasn't fighting to be saved.   

Edited November 27, 2016 by BkWurm1

[DittyDotDot]

10 hours ago, theredhead77 said:

FIAD is one of my least favorite episodes. There is something off about Daniel and I never bought he was in love with Shar'e.

Which is amusing since Michael Shanks was married to the actress and sparks should have been firing off of them without trying.

Yeah, I read somewhere they were married, but somehow they were always kinda awkward on-screen. It's funny how that works out sometimes. It's also funny because I find Michael Shanks is one of those actors who seems to generally have chemistry with almost anyone. 

7 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

I liked FIAD for at least containing an event that could have taken over a whole season (the rift between Daniel and Teal'c) and by that point in the series I was good with letting Daniel move on from being tied to Sha're but ultimately the story line centered around the kid was sort of awful.

That's a good point about Teal'c and Daniel. Although, that's another thing about the episode that just didn't gel for me, too. It just seemed really out of character for Daniel to be so bitter towards, not only Teal'c, but everyone at the SGC. I was fine with him mourning his wife, but all the attitude and drama with quitting the SGC and all...I guess it really comes down to, I knew Daniel wasn't going to leave the SGC, so all his moping around seemed rather pointless and kinda annoyed the crap out of me.

Plus, I just wasn't convinced Daniel wouldn't have been able to see the reality of the situation more. I mean, Sha're had been possessed for a couple years now, it wasn't likely they would've been able to get her back at that point. And, even if they did, she'd been through so much--forced to stand by and witness so much and probably totally traumatized--there's no way she would've been the same person. Actually, one could argue Teal'c did save her by ending her nightmare.

I did really like the structure of the episode, though. I liked how they managed to allow Daniel to grieve over a long period of time, but still contained it into one episode. I don't think I could've taken him moping around for half a season.

[BkWurm1]

Quote

Plus, I just wasn't convinced Daniel wouldn't have been able to see the reality of the situation more. I mean, Sha're had been possessed for a couple years now, it wasn't likely they would've been able to get her back at that point. And, even if they did, she'd been through so much--forced to stand by and witness so much and probably totally traumatized--there's no way she would've been the same person. Actually, one could argue Teal'c did save her by ending her nightmare.

Agreed on both points.  Daniel's anger seemed off.  I would have expected him to be understanding of Teal'c but blame himself instead for not being able to save her.  Technically if he hadn't rushed off without back up, he'd never have been in the situation where Teal'c had to kill her to save him.  Technically it was his screw up that got her killed but the episode ignores that, lol.  

In the later seasons when they added Vala to the cast,  one of the reasons I always enjoyed the character was because

Spoiler

 

she was the person who had survived after being forced to stand by and witness so much and you know she was deeply traumatized and it came out in different ways, but she did survive and it's such a great contrast to Sha're whose end I agree did seem almost like a release.  It's why looking back I don't think that Sha're would have been able to adjust to life on earth had she lived. I think surviving required the kind of adaptation that is almost unimaginable.  

I was a fan of the Daniel/Vala pairing, both for the way they sparked off each other (which really reminded me of early season Jack and Daniel) and for the potential of who they could become together, potential that we keep getting flashes of when they dropped their guard around each other.    I also liked the idea that the things in their respective pasts that had almost broken each of them were also the things that shaped them in the present (or would at least in the near future) into individuals that I saw as really fitting well together once they both got past the shields they wielded and hide behind.  

 

 

I think I enjoy the episode more for the comparison of characters I made years later than for actual appreciation in the moment when it happened.  I probably kind of hated it the first time I watched it since I wanted Daniel to succeed.  

But even if he had saved Sha're, neither were the same people and so in that sense, he would have already been too late.  

Edited November 27, 2016 by BkWurm1

[elle]

On 6/15/2014 at 8:59 PM, elle said:

Did you know that if you type in "Nick and the Giant Aliens" (without quotes) it will direct you to a couple of Stargate sites?  Still waiting for that album, guys!

 

"Crystal Skull", I wasn't sure what season that was, so the above search.  Fun episode, with classic lines.

 

Jackson: You can see me?
Ballard: Yes, Daniel. I can see you.
Jackson: Why didn't you say something?
Ballard: You are not real, so, it doesn't mean anything.
Jackson: No! No, no, no, no! Nick! Nick, I'm real! I'm real! You're not hallucinating!
Ballard: Hallucinations always say that.

 

O'Neill: (About Fraiser) Napoleonic power monger.

[blueray]

I've always liked the scene in Crystal Skull where Jack tries to get up and Teal'c says that Fraizer told him to not get up. Then when Jack falls down right away, "she is usually right in such matters".

[marina to]

Crystal Skull has so many great lines. It's one of the top ten episodes of the series IMO.

[LadyAmalthea]

Another season of mostly great episodes - Legacy, Deadman Switch, Pretense, Urgo, Maternal Instinct, Learning Curve, Crystal Skull.  

I actually really love Forever in a Day, it's one of my favourites of the series, but then I always rather liked the Daniel/Sha're relationship so...

It's an acting tour de force from Michael Shanks, and the search for Sha're was such an important aspect of Daniel's character in the first three seasons that it needed closure - despite , of course, falling victim to all the worst fridging tropes.  I understand why they did it, writing around a rescued Sha're at the SGC while no doubt would have been interesting considering her likely ptsd and no doubt the struggles for both of them adapting to the changes in each other, it wasn't what the show was about so I can see why they didn't go there or want to have to write a concerned Sha're showing up on base every time a goa'uld intel was needed or whenever Daniel was hurt/went missing/died.  I do think it was a missed opportunity never to have her show up from an alternate universe though.  

I actually thought Daniel's anger at Teal'c made a lot of sense - he's always had a blind spot/streak of ruthlessness where Sha're was concerned (destroying the goa'uld infants in Family, threatening to kill Apophis in Serpent's Song) and he'd forgiven Teal'c once before for his part in Sha're's capture and implantation but I imagine he would have been suppressing a glimmer of resentment for quite some time, brought to the surface in the immediate aftermath of her death when he was awash in grief.  Of course given time he would have come to his senses, returned to the SGC and accepted that Teal'c did what he had to do, the dream simply accelerated that process.

I don't think it's fair either to characterise Sha're as unwilling to fight to be saved - at that point she'd been a slave in her own body, continually raped, forced to give birth to a rape baby and mentally tortured for years.  While she'd been able to gain some control over Amaunet in Secrets, that was when she'd been weak from reawakening, that was unlikely to happen again as no doubt she'd been trying and failing to do for some time.  That she was able to send a message to Daniel through the hand device seems like an accomplishment given the circumstances.

The biggest failure of the episode is the idea that they bring every weapon under the sun to free the Abydonians (including a bazooka! Go Sam) yet forget to pack their Zat guns - kind of an oversight, Daniel and Teal'c .  

The death of Sha're also marks a real shift in Daniel's character - he's a little less idealistic from this point forward, and a lot more sarcastic, it's a long term process of grief that I'm not certain was intentional - but leading

Spoiler

all the way up to Daniel's ascension and probably contributing to it heavily.  Then there's his post-ascension funk and really Daniel doesn't really get a kick-start until Vala shows up.

 

Dropped plot points:

• Aris Boch's race, who can't be taken as hosts 
• The Foothold aliens
• Was Jack's fling from A Hundred Days preggo?
• Nyan, the research assistant 
• The giant aliens from Crystal Skull

Edited August 15, 2017 by LadyAmalthea