Whatever Happened to the Old Haunt and Other Show Related Mysteries

[TWP]

As it was written she thought that the whole prank (with all parts, including the stabbing) would be a good fun. Again, if I'm entitled to assume things, I assume that Beckett would have never been part of a prank which scenery hits so close to home. "Hey Alexis, wouldn't be such a great ending that he sees me being stabbed and he can't help just needs to watch it? Then he would maybe try to limp over here, scared to death that he would find me dead, just like my mother was found in a pool of blood?" Hello, is there anybody out there who thought this over? Unfortunately I can't stop watching them as persons with real emotions, and those aren't stop at the "cut" shout. To me it was a very narrow sighted writing, AM&Co simply forgot (or sacrificed) the backstory of their main character just for a plot joke.

 

Note: To me Castle's instant happiness was also OOC. He had already held her and saw her dying in his arms. Nobody tells me that it didn't came back to him at that moment and that was not a prank, but probably the most terrifying moment of his life. Having just relived it I seriously doubt that anybody with deeper feelings than a teaspoon would find it so wonderful and cheerful.

 

Yeah, if it was a prank, the two pranks are pretty shocking, distasteful and very similar if you think about it.

 

I think one of the best possible saves of this gawd awful mess of a finale is a prank scenario.  Beckett gets seriously pissed about it, calls off the wedding, isn't speaking to Castle, and Castle has to woo her back over the course of a number of episodes.  Then, maybe we'd get the dating scenes, the true romance between the couple.....and people would likely forgive and forget after awhile.  The one and done canon would be revived without invoking the awful "it was a dream" trope, since Beckett's previous marriage actually WASN'T real.  (She thought it wasn't legal and it truly wasn't)

 

Notice how Castle's lawyers always handled the divorce papers, etc?  Castle has connections with city hall and could have arranged a phony interaction with the city clerk.  Remember how amazing it was that the city clerk knew about a marriage in Vegas, but the FBI and NYPD hadn't called her out on it?  Remember how Castle "arranged" the acceleration of divorce proceedings, when everyone said that isn't possible? Remember how Martha and Alexis weren't there at the crash scene even though you'd have thought they would be?  And of course, the nimrod "ex-husband" would have gone along with the scheme for cash. Maybe all of these things WERE plot holes and I'm giving the show too much credit....but maybe they were part of a greater plan....

 

I'm gonna say prank.  Nope, I'm not going to bet on it.  But I'm going to say, some evidence alludes to it.

Edited June 24, 2014 by TVWithPity

[WendyCR72]

I think it's telling that the viewers put more care and thought into these episodes than the show's creator can and did.

 

Me, I think it is what it is, that Marlowe is a hack, this is/was real (the is/was depending on if Amann changes course or is a true puppet), and arrogance screwed the show up. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's...usually just a duck.

[halaciHU]

Me, I think it is what it is, that Marlowe is a hack, this is/was real (the is/was depending on if Amann changes course or is a true puppet), and arrogance screwed the show up. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's...usually just a duck.

 

LOL, yeah, I think we will have something to roast... :) However, I don't think it was a prank/dream, maybe I'm too optimistic.

Edited June 24, 2014 by halaciHU

[McManda]

Damn so looks like no scruff for Castle in 7.01

 

  Nathan Fillion @NathanFillion  ·  2h

    “@slicks6pack: Loving the scruff @NathanFillion #FacialHair #goodness”

    Oops. Shaved.

 

They have a week and a half left before they convene for S7. That's enough time to get some scruff back.

 

As it was written she thought that the whole prank (with all parts, including the stabbing) would be a good fun.

 

I don't think she thought it was good fun. She's not that mean spirited (though she isn't above scaring him a bit (see: pranks in Scared to Death or Wrapped Up In Death), so I don't think she'd think "oh good, and now he'll think I'm dead!". But it was an easy way to get Castle across the street. She knew he'd come to help, and that's all she was banking on.

 

[KaveDweller]

Now here comes back the "what we saw" problem. If previously it was expected and accepted that I assume that they have already talked about eg. the babies, then let me assume as well that spending together the Christmas, organizing a secret bday plot for her father, living in and caring about her when she was sick should have given an ample amount of feeling about how close or far they (I mean Beckett and the Castles) are.

 

Well, I didn't think I was assuming they talked about babies, I thought their conversation showed that they definitely had.  Obviously, you interpreted it differently and that's fine.  But for me it wasn't some assumption.  I don't think that necessarily effects how Kate saw Alexis though.  She's totally secure with her relationship with Castle, they've talked about their future and all that.  But Alexis isn't always around because she was living on campus and in Costa Rica and all that. I think they got along fine but weren't super close or anything like that.  Then when Castle and Alexis were off in Pennsylvania, and Alexis went to everyone except her for help, Beckett wondered about the relationship.  That seemed perfectly natural to me.

 

 

 

As it was written she thought that the whole prank (with all parts, including the stabbing) would be a good fun.

 

But the whole thing WAS good fun.  Castle liked it.  The part about possibly getting stabbing is kind of cold, but the rest of it wasn't.  Good fun is not the same as being funny.  Good fun means she thought Castle would enjoy it and funny means laughing at Castle.  I never saw it as her laughing at Castle, just her thinking he would legitimately enjoy it.  

 

But I guess we interpret a lot of things differently.

Edited June 24, 2014 by KaveDweller

[verdana]

I haven't watched the baby episode in ages but I presumed from the way Castle never remotely acted surprised when she calmly brought up them having kids that they must have discussed it previously.  It obviously happened in yet another off screen conversation I would have liked to have been witness too since it was a pretty fundamental matter.

 

I did enjoy TLOO it was one of the better episodes out of a poor season overall but I have to admit I never felt comfortable with the fact she was willing to make him believe she was being attacked and stabbed to bring him running. That didn't feel right given what they've both been through. 

[femmefan1946]

There was also a passing reference early on when Castle thought he had been exposed to (radiation?) and Beckett asked if he wanted more kids. He replied, "I'd like the option."

And of course the reaction to the time traveller's news.

The few interactions he's had with children show him as very loving and fatherly. He obviously loved bringing up Alexis.  Any reluctance would have to be on Beckett's part.

[halaciHU]

I don't think she thought it was good fun. She's not that mean spirited (though she isn't above scaring him a bit (see: pranks in Scared to Death or Wrapped Up In Death), so I don't think she'd think "oh good, and now he'll think I'm dead!". But it was an easy way to get Castle across the street. She knew he'd come to help, and that's all she was banking on.

 

But the whole thing WAS good fun.  Castle liked it.  The part about possibly getting stabbing is kind of cold, but the rest of it wasn't.  Good fun is not the same as being funny.  Good fun means she thought Castle would enjoy it and funny means laughing at Castle.  I never saw it as her laughing at Castle, just her thinking he would legitimately enjoy it.

 

 

Now I think that's where our different evaluation comes. To me one of Beckett's core attribute is her empathy. That's one of the "strongest vector" of her actions and decisions, everything else could come only after this. Planning a prank in which in her judgement she thinks that Castle could find it funny seeing her being killed, this doesn't fit to me. (I didn't mean that she wanted to laugh at Castle about him being scared, sorry if I was not clear enough.) Look into yourself: if the closest person to you had lived through a super traumatic event, would you think that making him to relive it again could be a good fun to him in any context? ""getting stabbing is kind of cold, but the rest of it wasn't" - there is a saying that it's no matter that you fill a glass of piss into a bottle of wine or a glass of wine into a bottle of piss, you get a bottle of piss in the end. That "cold" part was not the same level as weakening a chair under him. (And then here I don't even mention on her own side, with Joanna and her PTSD.)

 

That in the show Castle liked it, it doesn't mean anything, it's tautology - that's exactly what OOC and bad writing means, that the characters do things or react in a way which doesn't fit with their previous experiences or attitude. It justifies the actions by the result, while I'm saying that she wouldn't even thought about joking with this topic.

Edited June 25, 2014 by halaciHU

[halaciHU]

There was also a passing reference early on when Castle thought he had been exposed to (radiation?) and Beckett asked if he wanted more kids. He replied, "I'd like the option."

And of course the reaction to the time traveller's news.

The few interactions he's had with children show him as very loving and fatherly. He obviously loved bringing up Alexis.  Any reluctance would have to be on Beckett's part.

 

I mostly agree with it, with the amendment, that it misses the age difference. That Castle is and was a good father it doesn't necessarily means that he would like to have a baby now. Their sleepless night was funny in the show, but IMHO any responsible person think about how much they wish to live it through again when they are twenty years older. Add to this how vain and metrosexual Castle was depicted in the last seasons - being with a baby who could be his grandson isn't the most wished image among older guys who waants to look young. (Of course there is the other approach, the "look, I'm this old and yet virile" attitude, yet Castle didn't seemed to me this kind.)

 

What I wanted to say is that though obviously the reluctance in that scene was Beckett's part, it was not an outlandish idea from her side that in practice Castle is satisfied with what he already have and not very keen to be a father again. I wish we could have seen more from this, because IMHO both of them legitimately could think that the other one didn't want a baby while they do and it would have worth the time to show how they try to make it clear.

Edited June 25, 2014 by halaciHU

[femmefan1946]

because IMHO both of them legitimately could think that the other one didn't want a baby while they do and it would have worth the time to show how they try to make it clear.

 

Yes, there's a nice story in that. One that would be intimate (and sexy, because making babies is the whole point... well, most of the point... of sex). Plus, character development for Alexis, Kevin and Jenny, and maybe Martha (who may have been a little shocked to be a grandmother when her son was 23 or so). Could even give Lanie and Espo a kick in the pants. Lanie's clock must be ticking too, if she plans a family. A B plot for several episodes.

 

But please, no baby while the series is running. Maybe a series finale with an announcement of Beckett expecting twins. (She doesn't have much time to bear those three kids at her age.)

[KaveDweller]

That in the show Castle liked it, it doesn't mean anything, it's tautology - that's exactly what OOC and bad writing means, that the characters do things or react in a way which doesn't fit with their previous experiences or attitude. It justifies the actions by the result, while I'm saying that she wouldn't even thought about joking with this topic.

 

Except I don't think it was OOC for Castle to like the whole thing.  I think the whole thing is totally him.  And I think Kate would know that and so it wasn't OOC for her to do that to him.  Would some people be completely horrified if that happened to them? Sure. But Castle and Beckett aren't just any one.  They have this whole relationship built around solving crimes and they consider solving crimes some kind of foreplay.  They seem to get a high from near death experiences.  Using potential danger as a ruse to get him to the party totally fits for them.

 

I mean, I'm clearly not going to change your mind.  That's just how I see it.

 

But please, no baby while the series is running. Maybe a series finale with an announcement of Beckett expecting twins. (She doesn't have much time to bear those three kids at her age.)

 

Yes, no pregnant Beckett during the series.  That's like the kiss of death for shows like this.

[halaciHU]

Except I don't think it was OOC for Castle to like the whole thing.

[snip]

They seem to get a high from near death experiences. 

 

Yes I think we have different takes on the expected depth of the characters. Which is only sad to me because I think Marlowe's take was much closer to yours than to mine. (I don't dare to have high hopes about Amman's.)

Edited June 26, 2014 by halaciHU

[verdana]

Looks like the Creaseys are doing 7.03, I didn't think much of their first effort but I did enjoy their second attempt so hopefully now they've got a feel for things we will get another really good episode which will bode well for the start of the season.

Andrew W. Marlowe @AndrewWMarlowe
@chadgcreasey So those cries of excitement and anguish aren't about writing the 703 outline?

 

[mledawn]

Nathan tweeted about the rumours around his appearance in Guardians of the Galaxy

 

With so much inaccurate "news" about my involvement in GOTG, I'm actually losing faith in the internet. I'm not Cosmo.

Edited June 26, 2014 by mledawn

[madmaverick]

I'm guessing that 701-702 will be a 2 parter that resolves Castle's "death"/kidnapping (except for an annoying final scene to leave some threads till midseason of course ;)), and 703 will be a light-hearted episode that has complete amnesia about the events in 623-702.  I guess the Creaseys must be rising in estimation in AM/TM/Amann's eyes if they're getting 703.  

 

I did like Cosmo as a whimsical name though I think someone named Cosmo Castle might have a difficult time in the playground heh.  Not sure how serious Castle actually was about that name.... he has his Nikki Heats (that really was a classic moment when Beckett found out!) and Derrick Storms, but he did name his daughter Alexis Harper (good choice imo).

Edited June 26, 2014 by madmaverick

[KaveDweller]

Yes I think we have different takes on the expected depth of the characters. Which is only sad to me because I think Marlowe's take was much closer to yours than to mine. (I don't dare to have high hopes about Amman's.)

 

I feel a little like I was just insulted there.....but I'm going to assume I'm just being overly sensitive and reading tone wrong and let it go.

 

I rarely see things the same as Marlowe and his love for privacy.

 

I'm guessing that 701-702 will be a 2 parter that resolves Castle's "death"/kidnapping (except for an annoying final scene to leave some threads till midseason of course ;)), and 703 will be a light-hearted episode that has complete amnesia about the events in 623-702.  I guess the Creaseys must be rising in estimation in AM/TM/Amann's eyes if they're getting 703.  

 

I did like Cosmo as a whimsical name though I think someone named Cosmo Castle might have a difficult time in the playground heh.  Not sure how serious Castle actually was about that name.... he has his Nikki Heats (that really was a classic moment when Beckett found out!) and Derrick Storms, but he did name his daughter Alexis Harper (good choice imo).

 

Have we gotten confirmation on who's writing episodes's 1 and 2? I know some were assuming Amann for the premiere, but I don't think I saw anything official.

[Cyranetta]

News came out recently that Nora Roberts' J.D. Robb "In Death" series had been optioned for a film, and I may be alone in this, but I'd like to see Stana get a chance to dive into the role of Eve Dallas. Her intensity at studying the character and her physical adventurousness would serve the character well, and it would get her away from the supermodel disdain. It may not appeal to her, though, as it's another role of a woman who keeps her tragic past close to the vest.

[halaciHU]

I feel a little like I was just insulted there.....but I'm going to assume I'm just being overly sensitive and reading tone wrong and let it go.

 

I rarely see things the same as Marlowe and his love for privacy.

 

It's wasn't intended to be an insult, far from it, but as far as I remember the "crime solving is their foreplay" dates back to Marlowe, so that's the reason. (It would worth a tale how this show rached the point when even the idea of being compared to its showrunner counts as an insult... ) Plus AM has the habit to generalize things (boys are like this, etc.) missing that the devil is in the details. Even if I accept the forplay approach, IMHO they had never been depicted as adrenaline junkies who need near death experience to get on high, I disagree with you on this. That sometime they run into it (like in Always Buy Retail) and after that they ease the tension with some jokes is quite different than looking for it. 

 

In my mind their characters are (or if you are right they should be) deeper than putting a random risk encounter into the same basket than the most heartbreaking event of his life. IMHO this simply devaluates the later, would make it equal with a random chase, hell, she survived, so what's the big deal? Even in Castle's present clownish form I don't remember he ever made fun on when they were nearly frozen and mainly not on when she was shot. So no, I don't think that it was in his character to get on high by reliving that loss, and it was not in Beckett's character either, that she thought he would. But I repeat, seems that I imagine more depth into those characters than TPTB.

Edited June 27, 2014 by halaciHU

[verdana]

News came out recently that Nora Roberts' J.D. Robb "In Death" series had been optioned for a film, and I may be alone in this, but I'd like to see Stana get a chance to dive into the role of Eve Dallas. Her intensity at studying the character and her physical adventurousness would serve the character well, and it would get her away from the supermodel disdain. It may not appeal to her, though, as it's another role of a woman who keeps her tragic past close to the vest.

Actually you're not alone. I had never heard of the character or these books until I saw it mentioned on another blog and someone said how perfect Stana would be for the role.

 

goodreads. The …in Death series, written by Nora Roberts under her pseudonym J. D. Robb, features NYPSD ("New York City Police and Security Department") Lieutenant Eve Dallas and her husband Roarke and is set in a mid-21st century New York City. The stories also regularly feature other characters, including Captain Ryan Feeney, Detective Delia Peabody, Detective Ian McNab and Dr. Charlotte Mira.

 

The series is ongoing and will go on as long as Roberts desires to write it; however, she has famously stated that the series will never contain one of Eve and Roarke's children, as the series will end with Eve's eventual pregnancy—which is nowhere in sight at the current count.

 

When you read that it makes you realise why some fans are thinking about Stana in the role. I'd love for her to have a shot at it because I think she's deserving of better material than what she's getting right now on Castle. Trouble is she seems to pick lousy scripts and is linked to that Mark Polish who creeps me out, I think she needs to get herself a better agent and work with other people.

 

And here's me telling her how best to run her career LOL.  

 

Halaci. that's how I felt about it and why it felt disturbing that they played it off as a bit of fun. Didn't ring true.  Although given how Marlowe has twisted the characters for his own ends, knowing what's "true" to the characters is getting harder to ascertain with each passing season. 

Edited June 27, 2014 by verdana

[KaveDweller]

Even if I accept the forplay approach, IMHO they had never been depicted as adrenaline junkies who need near death experience to get on high, I disagree with you on this. That sometime they run into it (like in Always Buy Retail) and after that they ease the tension with some jokes is quite different than looking for it

 

Oh, I didn't mean they were adreniline junkies or that they LIKE almost dying.  Just that after they seem to be at peace or something after.  Like the relief from not dying makes them feel better about their lives?  I don't know, maybe that's how everyone feels.  I've never almost died, so I don't really know.  But I am thinking about at the end of Cops and Robbers where they both clearly wanted to spend time together after the bank robbery thing.  I don't think they like things like that happening, but that there are good moments in the aftermath.

 

I just don't think you can't judge the whole birthday prank with the one moment where Castle momentarily thought she was in danger.  He got to have several days of theorizing and had his boredom relieved and really seemed to enjoy the whole experience.  The last stage involved him being worried about her, but I don't think that should take away from the rest of it.  And it's not like they actually staged her being stabbed with fake blood.  They had the guy grab a knife and the lights went out. That's not quite the same as reliving her shooting.

 

There's no way Marlowe puts as much thought as either of us into his writing though. Or anyone on this board, really.

Edited June 27, 2014 by KaveDweller

[Cyranetta]

 

verdana: When you read that it makes you realise why some fans are thinking about Stana in the role. I'd love for her to have a shot at it because I think she's deserving of better material than what she's getting right now on Castle. Trouble is she seems to pick lousy scripts and is linked to that Mark Polish who creeps me out, I think she needs to get herself a better agent and work with other people.

 

I've read all the 30-some In Death books, and where I find them especially appealing as a vehicle in which to see Stana work is that, although it shares a lot of elements with Castle (although more overall dark, it has allowed the characters to develop more fully (which, true, is the advantage of novels over a broadcast series) and develop relationships with each other, and has kept the main two pretty well balanced (and allowed to have an ongoing enthusiastic love life -- what a concept!).

 

That said, if Stana is fulfilled by pursuing the independent and quite non-remunerative projects, then I wish her well, but I share your qualms. She's an actress whose extra-Castle work I'd like to follow.

[verdana]

I've read all the 30-some In Death books, and where I find them especially appealing as a vehicle in which to see Stana work is that, although it shares a lot of elements with Castle (although more overall dark, it has allowed the characters to develop more fully (which, true, is the advantage of novels over a broadcast series) and develop relationships with each other, and has kept the main two pretty well balanced (and allowed to have an ongoing enthusiastic love life -- what a concept!).

 

That said, if Stana is fulfilled by pursuing the independent and quite non-remunerative projects, then I wish her well, but I share your qualms. She's an actress whose extra-Castle work I'd like to follow.

I went and downloaded Naked in Death to see what's it like, I didn't realise how many she's done in the series. Just casually flicking through I can already see the potential there for development.  As for Stana she does seem to enjoy doing rather off beat "arty" projects which she presumably must find creatively fulfilling but I worry that she'll will end up as being one of those actresses that had one success and then drop out of sight. Hell of a lot of competition out there. I'm more nervous about her future acting career after Castle than Fillion's because with the contacts he's found and cultivated over the years he'll be okay. 

[verdana]

I'm guessing that 701-702 will be a 2 parter that resolves Castle's "death"/kidnapping (except for an annoying final scene to leave some threads till midseason of course ;)), and 703 will be a light-hearted episode that has complete amnesia about the events in 623-702.  I guess the Creaseys must be rising in estimation in AM/TM/Amann's eyes if they're getting 703.  

That would be totally in keeping with how they go about things (drama followed by a light fun and fluff episode) and I had to chuckle about your suggestion they'll have "complete amnesia" about recent events because it's so true.  I suspect the "new mythology" Marlowe mentioned will be born out of that two parter probably revolving around some problem for Castle (but in the end the focus will be on Beckett and her response to it) which will be dropped like a hot coal only to resurface without any fanfare about February sweeps. Or they might forget about it altogether or worse leave it until closer to the finale when it will suddenly blow up in Caskett's faces to cause ructions in the relationship.  I do hope they're married by then, I don't think the fan base could cope with yet another interrupted wedding. 

 

His choice of Cosmo Castle sounded like he was pulling her leg. I do hope so, I wouldn't want to saddle a child with that not that I think for a moment Beckett would let him.  

Edited June 28, 2014 by verdana

[break21]

JMO, but Eve Dallas is way too close a character in regards to Beckett for them to pick Stana.  The producers will want another actress to make the character her own.  They won't want comparisons to Castle.    Also, it will likely take years for this film to get made, if it is ever done.  Most films that are optioned don't ever make it to the screen.  Stana does need to cut the cord with the Polish Brothers.  They will never do for her what Joss Whedon did for Nathan and the sooner she realizes this the better.

[verdana]

And yes the scruff has definitely gone. Boo!

He still looks good though.

https://mobile.twitter.com/alinamaris/status/482757447346442240/photo/1

[TWP]

And yes the scruff has definitely gone. Boo!

He still looks good though.

https://mobile.twitter.com/alinamaris/status/482757447346442240/photo/1

 

I like him so much better without the scruff....so it's nice that he goes with and without ;-).

 

Also, pix like that are an argument for a decent camera phone, lol.

Edited June 29, 2014 by TVWithPity

[madmaverick]

Nathan's still looking good but I'm going to miss the scruff!  That was a nice change from the usual clean shaven look.  Made me think of more possibilities of him as an actor.

 

JMO, but Eve Dallas is way too close a character in regards to Beckett for them to pick Stana.

 

Agreed.  And I would imagine Stana would want to do a different kind of character too, after years of playing Beckett.  But someone like Eve would be an easy fit for her, and probably another steady paycheck.  Whatever roles NF and SK take on next after Castle, I'm going to bet they won't be quick to sign another long term contract.  Maybe eventually, after a break, but not right after.  Unless it's the role of a lifetime.  In terms of her future career, I'd like to see Stana (and everyone in the cast) take on an interesting, challenging role in a cable series.  Doesn't have to be mainstream, doesn't even have to be the lead, but not another procedural. Or I'd like to see her write, produce and direct an indie feature of her own, not involving Polish. ;)  I've watched Waitress and Trucker, both good indie films with NF which featured a actress in the strong lead role.  I'd like to see that sort of a role for Stana sometime, and that might be the sort of thing she would find more creatively fulfilling.  

 

I had to chuckle about your suggestion they'll have "complete amnesia" about recent events because it's so true. 

 

I wouldn't even rule out actual amnesia (with Castle's character) from them at this point. ;)

 

I suspect the "new mythology" Marlowe mentioned will be born out of that two parter probably revolving around some problem for Castle (but in the end the focus will be on Beckett and her response to it) which will be dropped like a hot coal only to resurface without any fanfare about February sweeps.

 

Agreed, especially the bolded part.  AM has a history of focusing on Beckett and letting her responses/needs drive the story even when it's supposedly about Castle (even with Alexis, as we saw last season).  Obviously, Beckett's shock and grief will play a big part as the season starts, but I hope he doesn't neglect Castle's response to his presumably traumatic ordeal, to himself and his loved ones, and writes him as a more active participant in his own story.

[verdana]

Agreed, especially the bolded part. AM has a history of focusing on Beckett and letting her responses/needs drive the story even when it's supposedly about Castle (even with Alexis, as we saw last season). Obviously, Beckett's shock and grief will play a big part as the season starts, but I hope he doesn't neglect Castle's response to his presumably traumatic ordeal, to himself and his loved ones, and writes him as a more active participant in his own story.

That's why I have issues when they do what's promoted as a more Castle-centric story (which isn't often) I find his reactions don't tend to drive the story anywhere it's usually all about how she reacts to events and he's a passive presence when he should have far more influence. That doesn't mean you should ignore how she's feeling since obviously they're a couple and events affect them both but if you say you will focus on a person then do so and give them a voice, let fans see their feelings and motivations come to the forefront but they often fail do do that. Edited June 29, 2014 by verdana

[verdana]

Awwww so sweet, I love the Dever's they truly seem a happy well matched couple and Seamus I note has joined the scruff club whilst off Castle duty.

Juliana Dever @CleverDever  ·  Jun 28
This is the very rock that @seamusdever  sat me down on and asked me to marry him 9yrs ago. #Donegal #Ireland

https://twitter.com/CleverDever/status/482948780472684544/photo/1

 

Meanwhile Stana is still in Italy by the looks of things. Florence is an amazing city I hope she's enjoying herself. Every time I see her hair that length I keep wanting her to ditch those extensions for Beckett. It's at a good enough length by now that she could just have this style on the show. 

 

Stana with some fans in Florence, Italy - June 29th 2014

Edited June 30, 2014 by verdana

[halaciHU]

This is another picture from Florence, what's interesting is that David Amman felt important to fly there to meet her, while she was occupied with filming "The Tourist". I know I see conspiracies everywhere, but IMHO if the changing of the guard meant nothing but the redistrubution of the daily tasks, then he wouldn't have felt it necessary to leave LA to meet her personally.

 

https://twitter.com/phoeberosen/status/482635595383341056/photo/1

[Samantha84]

I want more for Stana's career, too. Castle won't last forever and she needs to start making her footprint in film and I'm sorry but the films she's done so far ain't gonna cut it. Indie films have made stars of many actors but the script has to be great and the buzz has to be there. Starting w. casting a well known actor [for lower than their usual price]. After Castle, I'd like to see Stana do another TV show but this time on cable. Shorter shooting schedule and it would free her up to do more films. 

 

Yes, we're all playing Stana's manager/publicist/agent. lol. I just think she's a wonderful actress w. such depth and range and she deserves the recognition. 

[verdana]

May be Amann likes Italian ice cream.  Whatever the reason he suddenly popped up with Stana over there at least they can have a nice chat over a decent coffee.

 

When dreams come true: Me and Stana Katic.

Lovely picture of Stana here with a fan and once again I'm just loving the hair. 

[Finis Terre]

 

As for Stana she does seem to enjoy doing rather off beat "arty" projects which she presumably must find creatively fulfilling but I worry that she'll will end up as being one of those actresses that had one success and then drop out of sight. Hell of a lot of competition out there. I'm more nervous about her future acting career after Castle than Fillion's because with the contacts he's found and cultivated over the years he'll be okay.

 

This might not be the best comparison, but reading the posts about Katic and Fillion's prospects in showbiz reminds of the rather unpleasant discussions after The X-Files ended. Back then a lot of people claimed Anderson and Duchovny were one-trick ponies and predicted that their careers would be over soon (especially Anderson's because apparently she didn't have the "contacts" or the talent). It's 2014 and look: they both seem to be doing fine. I do not follow DD's projects, but saw all of GA's work and she got to play amazing, complex characters. Bottom line: let's not underestimate female performers, even if they have it tougher.

[VinceW]

Conspiracy theories exist because people have no idea how production works or refuse to believe that's its not as scandalous as they want it to ……….Who knows why he met up with her. I would believe they were dating before I would believe it was about Castle.

The visit doesn’t have to be a conspiracy, but it can’t just be a coincidence either. I don’t know how production works, but his visit could be unofficial Castle business. If the Amann show runner changeover is just a ruse, then ABC will pay dearly in viewership numbers. The Castle audience (casual and hard-core viewers) want no more wedding delays for any part of another season. If the Marlowe-Amann combo refuses to write them as a couple, then ABC needs different leaders to direct the writing or risk losing half the audience by the end of episode 3. IMO

Edited July 3, 2014 by VinceW

[Samantha84]

I don't find any conspiracies w David being in Italy. Perhaps he's on vacation there and decided to have dinner w. Stana and their significant others.  If he wanted to talk about the direction of the season w. her it's cheaper to email or skype. Or just wait for her to get back the US before they start filming. 

[TWP]

Yeah it's not a coincidence but no great conspiracy either. I wouldn't be surprised if she was a little bit ticked that they hadn't kept her in the loop so she looked a bit uninformed in interviews. Maybe he was there to waylay concerns.

[halaciHU]

The production budget would not pay for any writer or EP to travel out of the country to meet with an actor.

They would do a conference call or a skype call. 

 

Conspiracy theories exist because people have no idea how production works or refuse to believe that's its not as scandalous as they want it to be.

 

Even if Stana was threatening to quit (which she isn't) no one would fly somewhere to go meet her.

 

Who knows why he met up with her. I would believe they were dating before I would believe it was about Castle.

 

But that's none of my business. *sips tea*

 

- Didn't say he was sent there by the production. I said he felt it necessary to meet her in person. I think he can afford to buy an airplane ticket.

- I'm not in the production works anymore, but you aren't th only one with experience in it...

- Please point me where I even hinted anything about her "threatening to quit". There is a much wider pool of different kind of bad blood than the "I quit" and IMHO it worths a plane ticket to dry it out in advance than let it festering.

 

Perhaps he's on vacation there and decided to have dinner w. Stana and their significant others. 

 

Well, my limited production experiences tells me that a freshly appointed showrunner very rarely leaves his show for a vacation a week before the season starts filming. 

I can be old fashioned, but I believe in face-to-face conversations over any "look into the webcam" talks if the topic is important and there are concerns between the parties. The later is very fast and cost effective, but not the same. But I admit, yes it's in the cards that Amman suddenly felt the urgent desire for a good Italian gelato with Stana and he hopped on a plane just to have a dinner with her instantly.

[verdana]

This might not be the best comparison, but reading the posts about Katic and Fillion's prospects in showbiz reminds of the rather unpleasant discussions after The X-Files ended. Back then a lot of people claimed Anderson and Duchovny were one-trick ponies and predicted that their careers would be over soon (especially Anderson's because apparently she didn't have the "contacts" or the talent). It's 2014 and look: they both seem to be doing fine. I do not follow DD's projects, but saw all of GA's work and she got to play amazing, complex characters. Bottom line: let's not underestimate female performers, even if they have it tougher.

I believe Stana can find success again probably on TV more so than the movies.  I don't underestimate her but there's no getting away from the fact that for every actress that does go on to continued success like GA (who I love) there are any number who for various reasons fall between the cracks never to be seen again. I have to be honest, the choices she's been making so far in her career don't engender confidence but it's her life and she knows what she wants out of it. I only hope she's getting good advice that takes her in the direction she wants to go after Castle ends. 

 

Another picture of Stana whilst filming this movie in Italy, I realise it's not her personal choice but can't say the dress does anything for me or that wretched animal print bag. I see she's wearing a wedding ring for this part so at least she got married to somebody over the summer! I wonder how long it will be before we see Beckett sporting one? If she remembers to wear it of course. 

Edited July 3, 2014 by verdana

[Gant]

Color me curious about Amann's visit. I'm not a conspiracy nut, but can't believe in the "just a vacation" theory too. Hmm... we'll see. Or we won't, which is more probable.

 

This might not be the best comparison, but reading the posts about Katic and Fillion's prospects in showbiz reminds of the rather unpleasant discussions after The X-Files ended. Back then a lot of people claimed Anderson and Duchovny were one-trick ponies and predicted that their careers would be over soon (especially Anderson's because apparently she didn't have the "contacts" or the talent). It's 2014 and look: they both seem to be doing fine. I do not follow DD's projects, but saw all of GA's work and she got to play amazing, complex characters. Bottom line: let's not underestimate female performers, even if they have it tougher.

 

 

I wasn’t in the XF fandom during its heyday, but heard there was some bitter rivalry between DD and GA fans (and Mulder/Scully fans), similar to what we have in the Castle fandom.  All that went over my head when I watched TXF during its run (fandom came later) and I liked both characters and both actors equally. In their post-XF years GA took part in things that were more up my alley then things DD was in, so I absolutely agree with your assertion about her career being very successful, at least to me it is. That said, I’m not sure we can compare these two leading ladies.

 

First, GA after TXF was several years younger than SK will be after Castle ends its run - whenever it may be, even next year. I feel that in Hollywood there’s a big difference between being a woman in early to mid-30s and a woman in mid to late-30s, so career perspectives are not the same if only because of that. Mostly though,  there’s a huge disparity in their overall status in the industry – you just can’t compare the cultural impact and fame of The X-Files in the 90s-00s and Castle in our time. There is no comparison, Castle and its actors don’t have even a 1/10th of TXF and its actors buzz. GA was, IMO, way more popular and acclaimed, and had more high profile work during and after the show’s run than SK ever was or had, so it seems reasonable to suggest that SK won’t get similar offers after Castle. What Verdana said about her career choices/opportunities up to and including this hiatus is, of course, subjective but as of now doesn’t look very promising. But then, GA also had an eclectic taste and sometimes made odd choices (though still much more acclaimed and visible) from the career perspective, so…  One thing I agree with, we can’t know in what direction anyone’s career is going to go in the future, there’s always an element of luck or bts stuff we are not privy to. I find it funny tbh, when fans of actors start fighting over their faves career possibilities as if it’s a question of fairness, logic or foresight etc. Sure, there are some logical elements that should be considered, that were already listed here – connections, publicity, portfolio etc, but overall it’s more like a roulette than anything IMO.

Edited July 3, 2014 by Gant

[Finis Terre]

 

I believe Stana can find success again probably on TV more so than the movies.  I don't underestimate her but there's no getting away from the fact that for every actress that does go on to continued success like GA (who I love) there are any number who for various reasons fall between the cracks never to be seen again. I have to be honest, the choices she's been making so far in her career don't engender confidence but it's her life and she knows what she wants out of it. I only hope she's getting good advice that takes her in the direction she wants to go after Castle ends.

 

I agree that only a few lucky ones get to succeed. As far as Katic's choices are concerned, for now they are severely limited because of the shooting schedules around Castle. I wonder what her plans are. Is she thinking about directing something? Did she ever talk about the preferred direction post-Castle?  

[Finis Terre]

 

 

I wasn’t in the XF fandom during its heyday, but heard there was some bitter rivalry between DD and GA fans (and Mulder/Scully fans), similar to what we have in the Castle fandom.  

 

Trust me, it wasn't pretty. It was (and still is) mind-boggling, though. 

 

 

I’m not sure we can compare these two leading ladies.

 

Talentwise, it would be risky to compare GA with most female performers, so you certainly have a point. :)

 

 

I feel that in Hollywood there’s a big difference between being a woman in early to mid-30s and a woman in mid to late-30s,

 

Mostly though,  there’s a huge disparity in their overall status in the industry – you just can’t compare the cultural impact and fame of The X-Files in the 90s-00s and Castle in our time. There is no comparison, Castle and its actors don’t have even a 1/10th of TXF and its actors buzz. GA was, IMO, way more popular and acclaimed, and had more high profile work during and after the show’s run than SK ever was or had, so it seems reasonable to suggest that SK won’t get similar offers after Castle. What Verdana said about her career choices/opportunities up to and including this hiatus is, of course, subjective but as of now doesn’t look very promising.

 

I would argue that we don't know what kind of offers exactly GA was getting. She expressed disappointment with them and pulled a Gillian, so to speak (moved to London for good). And even though she had the cult status, her first truly successful project after The X-Files ended was "Bleak House", when she was 37. People in the US kinda forgot her because she wasn't cast in big budget projects and rarely got lead roles. 

 

I find it funny tbh, when fans of actors start fighting over their faves career possibilities as if it’s a question of fairness, logic or foresight etc. Sure, there are some logical elements that should be considered, that were already listed here – connections, publicity, portfolio etc, but overall it’s more like a roulette than anything IMO.

 

I couldn't have said it better, Gant. Fans' pettiness can be so depressing sometimes.

 

Anyway, I believe great things could still happen for Katic. She has the looks and she can act. What I don't believe is that Amann came to Florence merely to have gelato with her. "Sorry for the crappy scripts and sorry for destroying your character completely" should have been the first words in their little chit-chat. ;)  

Edited July 3, 2014 by Finis Terre

[Gant]

And even though she had the cult status, her first truly successful project after The X-Files ended was "Bleak House", when she was 37. People in the US kinda forgot her because she wasn't cast in big budget projects and rarely got lead roles.

 

 

That may be so, but she still had that cult status (wich wasn't even like Firefly cult, but much more mainstream and well-known) that SK won't have after Castle, let's be honest. So their starting lines are just too different to compare IMO.

Frankly, big budget projects are not what I have in mind when I'm talking about successful careers, lol. I'm just odd like that. Good indies with positive buzz from real critics, good (cable, BBC) TV also with positive buzz, juicy supporting role/cameo in a blockbuster of whatever quality - this is more up my alley. Have to admit my favorite actors usually are character actors who rarely star in commercial movies, so my definition of success may be skewed ;).

 

Sorry for the crappy scripts and sorry for destroying your character completely" should have been the first words in their little chit-chat. ;)

 

 

Lol, if ruining SK's character in the finale got her a visit from the new showrunner, an apology and a free gelato, I can't imagine what he has in store for NF. His character was so flattened out by the past seasons, this finale didn't even make any serious dent on him. A van full of kittens and gadgets or a poutine party with Harrison Ford would seem like a nice gesture for starters, but probably too extreme for ABC, lol.

[Sonik Tooth]

I would like to think that Amann just has excellent taste in choosing his travel destinations! (Same goes for Marlowe with Santorini and of course Katic’s choice of workplaces). Regarding his new position as a showrunner (whatever that entails), what better place to seek inspiration than the beautiful landscape filled with history in Tuscany, as so many did before him. Think Dante’s Inferno, Dostoyevsky’s The Idiot and Collodi’s Pinnochio :-)

[halaciHU]

Lol, if ruining SK's character in the finale got her a visit from the new showrunner, an apology and a free gelato, I can't imagine what he has in store for NF. His character was so flattened out by the past seasons, this finale didn't even make any serious dent on him. A van full of kittens and gadgets or a poutine party with Harrison Ford would seem like a nice gesture for starters, but probably too extreme for ABC, lol.

 

LOL, well said :)

[madmaverick]

I think NF and SK won't have any problems keeping their careers at their current levels after Castle ends, i.e. securing the lead on a TV series; question is, whether they can elevate their careers to the next level?  Like astute posters here have pointed out, it's a game of Hollywood Russian roulette as much as anything else. Castle has done a lot for both of them financially no doubt, but they've used a lot of their prime acting years on the show, and we'll never know what roles they might have gotten even if they hadn't landed Castle.

 

Castle was SK's big break, and I think she became a lot more seasoned and experienced through her time on the show.  It's opened doors for her no doubt, probably allowed her to pick and choose roles for the first time in her career, and hopefully lead to at least audition opportunities for good, juicy, challenging roles ahead.  She's older than GA was when she finished the X-Files, but I also think Hollywood has shifted towards providing a lot more good roles for actresses in their mid 30s and older, especially on cable TV, than in GA's time.  GA's definitely made some quality career choices in her post TXF career (can't wait for the return of The Fall!) that may well have been more interesting than what mainstream Hollywood offered her, so I can only hope SK gets to make similarly appetising choices in her post Castle career.  It only takes one role to get good career buzz again.  Laura Prepon did a good job guesting on Castle as Nikki Heat which probably didn't do much for her career wise, but years later she lands an interesting role on OITNB.  And I hadn't even heard of the actress who landed the lead on OITNB but she got her break and became the lead on a hit cable show.  Someone like Dana Delany has longevity in her career, though I think her talents are also wasted in a network procedural.  Talent's involved for sure, but also a host of other factors.

 

Who knows, maybe Molly will be the first to land a breakout role?  She's got youth on her side, and she's a good actress, despite Alexis being less well written these days.  I think NF's definitely given her some career advice and got her involved in some of the acting groups he's involved in.  I haven't had the chance to see her outside of Castle though.

 

Castle never got NF the critical acclaim he got from Firefly, and sometimes it's still Firefly that gets more referenced in write ups about him than Castle, despite Castle being a network show that's been on for so many years. Castle just doesn't have the buzz in the industry, though a long running show isn't to be snuffed at these days.  But Castle's given NF a steady paycheck and made him more known to a mainstream audience, and he's been signed by CAA, so hopefully that will mean some good opportunities ahead though he may have passed the prime window for lead roles during his years on Castle.  I don't see NF as any less talented than someone like Ryan Reynolds back in the day, yet RR is the guy who broke out of TV into films so it really can be a game of Russian roulette.

 

Incidentally, I watched the finale of DD's cable show Californication earlier.  I'd watched that show a bit in the beginning but dropped it seasons ago as it got really repetitive, but checked out the finale.  DD also plays a writer on that show, and in the finale, he read out a love letter he wrote to the love of his life.  There's just no comparison between that love letter and the one we got on Castle!  Yes, I know Castle is a network procedural and Beckett's not a novelist, but Castle is though, and we can surely have more opportunities to hear some of his eloquent words to her even if he doesn't write Shakespeare!  Beckett did fall in love with his words first after all, but we don't get to see that explored at all. There's also so much more to be explored about Castle's identity as a writer and challenges he faces.  If they're not interested in that, why did they make him a writer in the first place? ;)

 

Frankly, big budget projects are not what I have in mind when I'm talking about successful careers, lol. I'm just odd like that. Good indies with positive buzz from real critics, good (cable, BBC) TV also with positive buzz, juicy supporting role/cameo in a blockbuster of whatever quality - this is more up my alley.

 

My alley too.  So many big budget films have been disappointing and little more than expensive special effects.  Give me the smaller, character driven films any time that they don't seem to make many of any more in Hollywood.  Perhaps the ideal career would be a mix of the blockbuster films and indie films, but not many actors get to pick and choose great roles from both!  I would just be happy to see the talented actors from Castle land quality roles, and diverse roles in different mediums.

 

Big budget superhero movies aren't my natural inclination, but if that's one of NF's dream roles, then good luck to him.  Joss Whedon and James Gunn are talented filmmakers and I would love to see NF work with them again in any kind of film.  I'd love to see him break out and do more challenging, different kind of films like Much Ado that people might not expect of him, though I think he more than deserves something he can sink his teeth into in a mainstream movie.

 

I hope Stana's The Tourist is a better movie than her previous indie efforts, but in any case, I guess she's happy to have exercised some different acting muscles and spent her hiatus in Italy heh no matter how the end result is.  I guess we'll see the result of her work with Polish on the Castle DVD next heh. ;)  Surely, that should be a straightforward thing to shoot, right?

 

(LOL, yeah real critics, please.  Not just fangirls/fanboys.)

 

I wasn’t in the XF fandom during its heyday, but heard there was some bitter rivalry between DD and GA fans (and Mulder/Scully fans), similar to what we have in the Castle fandom. 

 

Trust me, it wasn't pretty. It was (and still is) mind-boggling, though.

 

This phenomenon of pitching the 2 leads in a ship on a show against each other is mind boggling to me too.  I don't understand the need to tear one down to build the other up, the need for there to be a competition at all.  You'd think that shippers would be supportive of both actors, or at least not hate on one of them, but that seems to be the case for some in the Castle fandom.  I've seen this in other fandoms too.  Is it that people let the perceived rights and wrongs of the fictional relationship bleed into their views of the actors, or is it perceived BTS drama that feeds this weird phenomenon?  Whatever the reason, I don't care for the drama. ;)  It's stupid, petty, and cruel and crazy at times.

Edited July 3, 2014 by madmaverick

[verdana]

I agree that only a few lucky ones get to succeed. As far as Katic's choices are concerned, for now they are severely limited because of the shooting schedules around Castle. I wonder what her plans are. Is she thinking about directing something? Did she ever talk about the preferred direction post-Castle?  

This link has already been posted here on another thread, it's the Greek interview she did recently, she gets asked about life after Castle at 8.20. I know that DB and ED have both directed episodes of Bones and I've often wondered if Stana and Nathan would eventually want to do something similar. I agree that with the show to work around it makes things difficult to fit other projects in and the actors probably want a rest in any case after such a long exhausting season. 

Edited July 3, 2014 by verdana

[Finis Terre]

Thanks for the link, verdana, and I should emphasize that big budget projects are not my idea of success, either. What I meant was the general perception of what success in film industry is. From the point of view of the average consumer, neither GA nor DD, nor for that matter NF, nor SK got that kind of success. 

 

 

There's just no comparison between that love letter and the one we got on Castle!  Yes, I know Castle is a network procedural and Beckett's not a novelist, but Castle is though, and we can surely have more opportunities to hear some of his eloquent words to her even if he doesn't write Shakespeare!  Beckett did fall in love with his words first after all, but we don't get to see that explored at all. There's also so much more to be explored about Castle's identity as a writer and challenges he faces.  If they're not interested in that, why did they make him a writer in the first place? ;)

 

madmaverick, these are precisely the questions I've been asking myself since season 1. With the exception of a few episodes, the whole "writerly" level of the story has been wasted. It irritates me because the very premise of the show offers great possibilities in this respect. 

 

As to who's going to get a big break outside the Castle universe, my bet is on Seamus Dever, but I wish everyone involved the best.  

Edited July 3, 2014 by Finis Terre

[madmaverick]

Finis Terre, all I remember is AM saying that it was boring to watch a writer write!  And I remember thinking, what an unimaginative take on the subject, ironically coming from a writer.  There's lots more to a writer's life and a writer's world than literally pounding at the keyboard! ;)  (Though I'm still waiting to see a lovely intimate scene with Castle at the keyboard and Beckett watching him for a change.  Beats drinking wine 3 feet apart on the couch in my book. ;))  I liked how in S1/2 they touched on issues of writer's block, pressures of bad sales and reviews and deadlines, how Castle 'knew a guy' from research, his interest in the 'story' and the macabre, how he worked out plots through poker games with other writers, met his agent and found out what Bond and Nikki Heat meant to him etc.  Those elements were woven into the show well and added layers to Castle.  But they've stopped doing a lot of that, and never really explored Castle's writing within the context of the Castle and Beckett relationship.  He knows she's a fan but he still doesn't really know what his writing meant to her after her mum died.  Or are we to presume that conversation happened offscreen. ;)  He's written love letters to her in the form of the books, and the lovely dedications, but we never really see this brought up in the show any more.  What a shame.  That scene in S2 where she read his dedication "to the extraordinary KB" was wonderful.  These days it's like they almost forget Castle is a writer except when they have their annual plug for the real life Richard Castle book.

[Finis Terre]

 

Finis Terre, all I remember is AM saying that it was boring to watch a writer write!

 

Jesus. madmaverick, how is this guy capable of earning a living as a writer?

 

They could easily weave the 'Castle is a writer' bits into the story in season 7, but somehow I'm not optimistic it will happen. Instead, the writers will probably be #respectingthewritingprocess. ;) 

[Gant]

As to who's going to get a big break outside the Castle universe, my bet is on Seamus Dever, but I wish everyone involved the best.

 

 

Now THIS I would love, because SD is my second favorite in the cast, and I seriously consider him a VERY underappreciated and underutilized actor who is capable of great things. That's why his empty IMDB page makes me question Hollywood's sanity. I haven't seen their short with Jon, but aside from that he hasn't done a thing since Castle started. I really don't understand this: he has way more free time than the leads, he (I think) made an impression on Castle (IMO his character seems to get more interesting storylines than Jon's and overall is still likable and alive, and the actor makes the most of it), he seems like a friendly, well-liked person - what's the problem? Granted, he may value his free time with friends and family more, or be picky about scripts, or prefer theatre work, but he seems like an actor starving for good work and yet no work comes his way. Makes you wonder about those career perspectives in Hollywood all over again.

 

Who knows, maybe Molly will be the first to land a breakout role?  She's got youth on her side, and she's a good actress, despite Alexis being less well written these days.  I think NF's definitely given her some career advice and got her involved in some of the acting groups he's involved in.

 

 

Yes, Molly's been popping up in stuff and with the right role, or a string of right roles on a smaller scale, I could see her becoming a star. I like her and think she's consistently getting better, even if her character on Castle gets worse. And you're right, judging by the things I see/hear about Molly in the fandom (aside from hate, lol), she hangs out with a lot of NF's friends in the business like James Gunn etc, seems like he deliberately connects her to everyone he knows who might be useful to her (in a good way, lol).

Edited July 3, 2014 by Gant