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Whatever Happened to the Old Haunt and Other Show Related Mysteries

Deeda

By Deeda
in Castle [V]

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KaveDweller

KaveDweller

Hello all, axj73 from TWoP here. Shame they couldn't get Stana to do the commentary for In the Belly of the Beast. Especially as it was a big one for her character. I know we've said that Nathan is the one that's a bit ambivalent towards Castle but at least he does contribute to the commentaries. Even if he doesn't mention Stana at all during those commentaries! I guess Stana doesn't enjoy doing them although I thought she did OK on the earlier season commentaries that she contributed to. Aren't these commentaries recorded during the first three months of the year? It's not like they are recorded during the hiatus. Oh well to each their own as they say. 

 

Yeah, I really wish Stana would do more commentaries, she seems to have more to say about the characters/scenes/etc.  Nathan can do an entertaining commentary, but it's usually more about what happened the day they filmed than the plot.  Both are entertaining things to hear about, it would just be nice to get both.

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madmaverick
madmaverick

We may all have our opinions on the actors' personal lives (and relationships with each other) based on the very little part of the picture we glean from their public personas, but let's not forget th

Gant
Gant

Castle has always been laughed at. Starting with episode 1 he was constantly put in ridiculous, ego-damaging situations, and a big part of his charm came from him either being oblivious to it or being

break21
break21

I think Stana needs to distance herself from Mark Polish ASAP.  His last movie couldn't find a distributor, he was too broke to make a new one and was releasing how they made For Lovers Only to try an

verdana

verdana

No Stana commentary is odd, again.

Yeah that is odd, she's the female lead and surely ITBOTB rated her contribution? I must admit I haven't bought a DVD set since S3 but you think they would have got her involved. She's not some minor bit part player and whilst some might not care about the commentaries, many do like to hear from the key people involved like Stana, Nathan, Marlowe, Bowman etc. 

verdana

verdana

(edited)
Stana isn't rolling her eyes, Beckett is rolling her eyes.  She plays the straight one to Castle's funny one.  But when the writing is good, I think they do a fantastic job bouncing off each other.

This is what Marlowe once said about Stana which ties in with what you're saying:

"She's great in the day-to-day needs of the show," he says. "She's a great, strong cop who can walk in a room and project authority. She also owns her femininity. And when we need her to access those darker emotions, she is really incredible."

 

The unexpected bonus: Katic's comic chops, which give the dialogue its distinctive tom-tom rhythm.

"Nathan is a fantastic comic talent," says Marlowe. "So a lot of time, Stana has to play the straight man. But each has their own area code for humor. He has the one-liners, the bon mots. She has the drier humor, the cutting observations."

 

 

I agree with Marlowe she has to mainly play the straight man in this partnership but I think she brings her own brand of humour when she needs to and it works well with what Fillion brings to the table. But when it comes to drama I prefer her in more subtle moments than the more obviously signposted scenes/episodes that fans tend to rave about. For example her performance in Killshot or the torture scene in ITBOTB which tend to leave me emotionally dead inside and I don't know why really but they don't punch me in the gut unlike some of Nathan's performances have in the past. It's at those moments that I feel like she's obviously "acting" and there's a certain stiffness there. Admittedly the writing now doesn't help either of them but especially not Stana.

 

It tends to be Nathan that draws me in emotionally not so much over the last few seasons because sadly he's not had the material available but if I had to pick my ten favourite performances Nathan I bet would feature more prominently. However saying that now Beckett has been allowed to open up emotionally with Castle and be in love I find Stana's acting far more consistent than Nathan who runs totally hot and cold, I don't know what to expect from one week to the next. 

 

Gant I love your OT "rant" on gut talent v head talent. That's how I tend to group actors too but I didn't realise it until now that's what I was doing. You explained it perfectly. Nathan is definitely a "gut" talent. During their row in the apartment in Always someone at a comic-con asked him about his process of how he prepared for such an emotional scene and he was like *shrug" well I just turned up did it and then went home! I think the person asking the question was at a bit nonplussed but I smiled because it seemed so very typical of how Nathan approaches things acting wise. Not to say his way is better than Stana's but it's interesting to me how actors can approach things so differently sometimes. How certain things can be out of one individual's comfort zone which they may need to work at whilst for others it's as natural as breathing but they can still (with good writing) end up at the same place and put in a good performance. 

 

If that deleted scene isn't on that DVD and it's something else, MilMar and ABC had better circle those wagons! Because there will be a wailing and gnashing of teeth of the likes that has never been experienced before.  

Edited by verdana
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madmaverick

madmaverick

(edited)

Count me in as not surprised that the unaired scene from Always is appearing on the DVD set at last, though I thought they'd wait till the complete series set to squeeze maximum pennies out of the fans.  ;) It's always about the money.  Call me cynical, but respect for any process goes out the window if they can rake in more revenue.  I'll be glad to see the scene of course, but I'm not impressed by the way the producers have handled all this.  Many shows put in far more effort into their DVD extras and commentaries than Castle, without playing hard to get with their deleted scenes.   I just want to see The Scene.  At this point, I have no desire to hear AM/TM justify its exclusion and blab on about their artistic process and explain why they couldn't have included it on the previous DVD sets (there's no good answer to that ;)).

 

Will still try to keep expectations in check for The Scene.  It would be ironic if the scene showed them walking into the bedroom but cuts off before they get into bed. AM/TM do love their interruptions and teases! ;)

 

Would have been so excited to watch more from Always at the end of S4, but now, after 2 seasons of disappointingly passionless, sexless Caskett, I hope I can enjoy the scene without feeling pissed that we never got to see anything like that again.

 

Character commentaries could be entertaining.  Couldn't help thinking, how bored must SD and JH be to have to create their own fun like this? ;)

 

Would have liked to hear commentary from Stana, but oh well.

 

For the DVD cover, they should just use that recent photo of NF with the scruff (the one with his brother and relative), photoshop in any photo of Stana looking gorgeous, which should be easy, and they would automatically sell more copies.  ;)  The chosen DVD cover is so very bland, like all the Castle artwork (and the show, some might say ;)).

 

ETA: Re Marlowe's resurfacing tweet.  Oh, please give me a break!  Enough with the PR already.  So forced.  Is he also proud of the way the finale was received by fans and critics?  Maybe he should be proud of his writers if they can write their way out of the mess he created.  But talking is one thing, actually deepening an idea and executing it right is another... AM's talked about a lot of stuff that didn't deliver on screen.

 

One other comment about the DVD: always happy to see Stana featured, but why is Mark Polish involved with a BTS Castle extra now?  "Stylistic & intimate"?  Comes across as a bit pretentious to me for a DVD extra.  I hope MP isn't scripting anything 'cause his writing skills seem to be as bad as AM's judging from FLO.  

Edited by madmaverick
Lee4U

Lee4U

Yes, sorry, I should have noted it was Beckett rolling her eyes but my point (and, it is just my opinion, obviously) is that I personally find SK to be a very limited, wooden actress with a monotone voice when ACTING - I have zero idea of what she is like in real life and have no interest.  I've never watched her interviewed or read any interviews - just not my interest.  I'm sure she's a fine person - I just don't care.  I am only interested in what is on the screen and I find her sadly lacking any zip or depth - her serious scenes make me cringe because I can't even hear a difference in her voice and everyone I know (including myself) has tonal differences whether pleased, frightened, angry, loving, etc.  Subjective?  Sure - and, not everyone is going to be a big fan.

 

Lots of differing opinions out there - I for one, could give a hoot about the sparkless "romance" taking place.  I was hoping they would skirt the whole mess and just have a fun, witty, crime solving duo without all the forced romantic stuff - just for once.  But, they can never resist and when they go for it, it inevitably gets mucked up - just as it has here.  When they kiss, I feel like I'm watching siblings kiss as there is no chemistry (that I can discern) and seemingly no interest on the part of NF in even being there anymore.

verdana

verdana

(edited)

I see Elysium's post describing The Scene is doing the rounds on tumblr!  Just reading it again gets me all hot and bothered so I'm looking forward to September. Although like madmaverick if it really is as good as described part of me is going to be annoyed comparing it to the sexless coupling I get now dressed up by Marlowe as some super-heated romance.  

 

As for the various teasing tweets starting to come out of the writers room they're irritating. I would rather they put their energies into writing because after that finale they need to get some work done. 

Edited by verdana
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Samantha84

Samantha84

Nathan walking the floor at Phoenix Comic Con today.  
 

9 times out of 10, Nathan always looks better when he's out in his everyday life than he does on Castle -- where people [looking at you Luke] get paid money to dress him. Something seems wrong w. that, no? Plus Nathan's clothes are 90% made so the tailoring should be impeccable! 

McManda

McManda

(edited)
I hope the people on the ABC forums see this.  They were sure she stopped dating, um <help me with his name>.

 

The dude on the left? I've heard both that he's her boyfriend and that he's her brother. Though I think he was at one of the few wrap parties that Stana went to and Penny called him "[stana's] man", so it's probably the former. Whatever. Can't help you with his name, though.

 

For her sake, I hope people don't notice. I'm sure there will be crazies that are sad to think that she might have a happy, healthy personal life that is separate from Nathan and Castle.

Edited by McManda
FlickerToAFlame

FlickerToAFlame

(edited)

@Purple_Waters: Video: loverofcastle: Nathan Fillion Gives Watch to Fan Phoenix Comicon http://t.co/TxmugdLJx9

@SpoonAZ: Okay, the watch thing was apparently a gimmick. @NathanFillion keeps pulling out new ones from under table. Pretty damn funny. #phxcc

@The_Con_Fluence: This is the first of many watches given out today by Nathan Fillion as a running gag that he didn't bring anything http://t.co/iVIZQD6j6Z

Edited by FlickerToAFlame
GeorgieNY

GeorgieNY

 

Would have been so excited to watch more from Always at the end of S4, but now, after 2 seasons of disappointingly passionless, sexless Caskett, I hope I can enjoy the scene without feeling pissed that we never got to see anything like that again.

 

 

 

 

 

Um... THIS!!! 

Even as Season 2 airs on TNT, Castle's "love scenes" with the actress who wants to be Nikki Heat in the late night talk show host episode are better then anything he has with Beckett now (they are actually shown in bed!!!) 

TWP

TWP

(edited)

Um... THIS!!! 

Even as Season 2 airs on TNT, Castle's "love scenes" with the actress who wants to be Nikki Heat in the late night talk show host episode are better then anything he has with Beckett now (they are actually shown in bed!!!) 

 

Exactly.  And they make people feel like pervs for even calling them out on the utter stupidity of it.  Yeah, that's right! We want constant Caskett SEX with full nudity!  Put the show on the x-rated channel!  Noooo, actually we just want the scenes to not be so chaste that it's awkward.  We want for Castle and Beckett to have what Castle and "Nikki Heat" had. 

 

I will answer my own question:  Katic's boyfriend, the one sitting across the table from her in that photo from The Tourist, is Kris Brkljac. And I also might say that Katic puts Brett Dalton on the map for me, something that Agents of Shield never did (even though I watch the show every week).  I didn't even know Brett's name until now.

 

And I have to disagree that Nathan dresses himself better than Luke does.  That plaid untucked shirt, those overly baggy pants.  Ugh.  He looks downright dumpy

Edited by TVWithPity
KaveDweller

KaveDweller

(edited)

But when it comes to drama I prefer her in more subtle moments than the more obviously signposted scenes/episodes that fans tend to rave about. For example her performance in Killshot or the torture scene in ITBOTB which tend to leave me emotionally dead inside and I don't know why really but they don't punch me in the gut unlike some of Nathan's performances have in the past

Oh, I agree she's better at the more subtle scenes. I don't have a problem with her more dramatic ones though.

I guess I just don't see whatever it is people see with Nathan. I can't even remember any emotional scene he did that left me feeling anything. Again, not to say he's bad, just that none of his Castle performances have impacted me like that.

Edited by KaveDweller
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TWP

TWP

(edited)

Oh, I agree she's better at the more subtle scenes. I don't have a problem with her more dramatic ones though.

I guess I just don't see whatever it is people see with Nathan. I can't even remember any emotional scene he did that left me feeling anything. Again, not to say he's bad, just that none of his Castle performances have impacted me like that.

 

Yeah, I think he's best as the devil may care dude who occasionally gets a moment of revelation.  He is not a great dramatic actor and I think he even knows that drama is not his forte.

Edited by TVWithPity
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verdana

verdana

Nathan at Phoenix Comic Con today. Look at him! He's looking very Castle-esque circa season 1. 

Why can't he keep this look in season 7? If not the whole than at least the first few episodes? He looks handsome, mature, and distinguished. 

Nathan seems to be having a great time at all the cons he's going to.

 

I'm shocked that Stana has a personal life. Stanathan's will not be happy with her lack of pining over Nathan. 

 

Much as I would like to see the return of some facial hair on Rick Castle he would need to tone it down a bit for me and get rid of the moustache.   If he's been kidnapped there's always hope he won't have the opportunity to shave. 

verdana

verdana

(edited)

Exactly.  And they make people feel like pervs for even calling them out on the utter stupidity of it.  Yeah, that's right! We want constant Caskett SEX with full nudity!  Put the show on the x-rated channel!  Noooo, actually we just want the scenes to not be so chaste that it's awkward.  We want for Castle and Beckett to have what Castle and "Nikki Heat" had. 

 

I will answer my own question:  Katic's boyfriend, the one sitting across the table from her in that photo from The Tourist, is Kris Brkljac. And I also might say that Katic puts Brett Dalton on the map for me, something that Agents of Shield never did (even though I watch the show every week).  I didn't even know Brett's name until now.

 

I sense whenever these arguments come up there is some deliberate misunderstanding going on in some quarters to deflect attention away from what is a dumb situation. Marlowe does it too in his interviews when he asked one question about Caskett and promptly turns it into something else that's not the issue with the fans and it's irritating. The number of instances I hear the retort of "if you want that kind of thing go watch HBO or a porn channel!" to perfectly sensible requests for a modicum of heat and passion and a few less clothes sometimes hell just some hand holding, more meaningful looks at times or a longer deeper kiss wouldn't go amiss! If that kind of level of physical affection needs to be on a porn channel in the States then I'm stunned.

 

What many fans wish for is what I perceive to be a normal level of every day couple interaction importantly between two people at the start of a serious relationship about to get married not sixty years into one.  It's awkward watching them sometimes I find because I know what I should be seeing at key emotional moments but it doesn't happen or worse gets diverted into something else (usually comedic and unfortunately it's Castle that seems to the main instigator but that's another side issue) which makes their behaviour look even more strange. You should have fun in a relationship of course but not let that be used as the default option when it comes to them getting serious romantically and the writing seems to increasingly move in that direction now. 

 

Often throughout the last two seasons it's been a lack of basic gentle touching or kissing at key moments that gets to me not the fact I don't get to see them rolling around in bed that often. 

Edited by verdana
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madmaverick

madmaverick

(edited)

Still curious about the timing of the release of the unaired Always scene on this season's DVD set.  Despite people like Mr JML's claims to the contrary, do you think negative social media feedback to the finale was a factor in their decision to add the scene to the DVD?  Maybe the network actually said something to the producers? I don't know the time frame for the actual manufacture of the DVDs though, so maybe their decision did take place prior to the airing of the finale.  

 

I do wonder how the negative online response to the finale will affect their writing for next season, not that it's likely we'll find out as they are not fans of acknowledging negativity and criticism. ;)  It's not a question of whether they will give us the wedding; it's a matter of how and when.  More the 'how' than the 'when' for me.   After a very poor passionless proposal, very poor boring wedding planning and tragedy on the wedding day, can they still deliver on an intimate, romantic and touching wedding that strikes the right tone and hits all the right notes after all the mishits and misfires?

 

It's really more about whether they can craft any compelling drama and romance out of the Castle kidnapped/presumed dead situation than anything else for me at this point.  The wedding will be the destination at the end of that journey, but I really need that (prolonged) journey to be interesting and meaningful.  And if they are responding to fan reaction (not a given), then my biggest hope (still lowest expectation though because this complaint has been made for a while ;)) is that they will recalibrate the way they depict passion and intimacy in the Caskett relationship, married or not.  They have another obvious opportunity to showcase passion again when there's the inevitable reunion.  Will they take up on it, or will AM believe that's unnecessary to further their story? ;)  But they really need to reassess how they do it (not do it, rather) in the everyday portrayal of the lovers.  A minute long scene on the couch at the end of an episode just doesn't cut it, nor do interrupted kisses/banter/dumb comedy as foreplay, and I do not want to see any repeat of Castle wanting anything else in lieu of sexytimes with Beckett ever again. ;)

 

Back to the DVD, I would be interested in what a typical day on set is like for Stana, but it's a pity they picked a day (so it seems) where she doesn't have any interaction with other actors.  I'd love to see more of their acting process. They don't have a table read, so how much do they rehearse? How much direction does the director give?  But I guess they wouldn't be likely to show too much detail in the acting/directing process, or to let us see NF/SK acting together BTS. ;)

 

I do remember enjoying the Ride-a-long (write a long?) feature with NF in character as Castle, with Stephen Cannell, a DVD extra from way back when.  That was fun to watch.

 

NF's comedic talents are well known (love that watch bit he did with his fans at his most recent con panel), but I think he is really underrated as a dramatic actor.  I'd like to see him do more dramatic roles and have his career evolve like the very talented Steve Carell.  NF makes me laugh on Castle, but it's some of his purely dramatic stuff that I've found most impactful and memorable.   I think he's delivered moving, powerful (but often subtle at the same time) performances in dramatic moments when the script has been more challenging (e.g. Target/Hunt, not just with the Alexis stuff, but the scenes with his Dad; his declaration in Always).  I prefer SK in her more subtle dramatic moments as well, like when she first really got my attention in her well-acted scene in the pilot when Castle was 'reading' her.  The all out ass-kicking, name-taking dramatic moments have been a bit hit and miss with me, but I did like her performance in Veritas.  SK is very good with the romance, and she may have different comedic instincts to NF's but they compliment each other well.  Gant, I think your gut vs head approach describes their natural instincts well, though I'm sure they have occasion to use both in their acting.  All in all, I think we have a talented cast who are more than capable of delivering on the mostly mediocre, unimaginative scripts they are given.  The number of really moving, gut-wrenching scenes on Castle has really dwindled.  I mean, I felt more more of a punch in my gut at the look on Beckett's face (well done, Stana) as Castle walked away from her in S2 than I did when she was staring at Castle's burning car.  Even good actors can't save terrible writing.

Edited by madmaverick
justanoldDJ

justanoldDJ

Just my 2cents but I think the advance orders for S6 DVD's were WAY LOW compared to other years, and I know many who had ordered cancelled after the drab MilMar tried to push off a comedic writing for the finale.  I was one, but perhaps enough responded to hit  TPTB where they can hear, Revenue.  I am gearing up to watch S7 online, or from a recording since I am done with the in Marlowe we Trust BS, and New Mythology replaces Organic.  I am sorry but Mark Polish on set of Castle?  Directing a Behind the Scenes with Stana?  How low can the show go,

justanoldDJ

justanoldDJ

NF is busy with his Comic Con circuits, and Stana is filming an indie in Italy, Everyone is worried that NF will not sign for Season 8, personally I think it will be Stana who has grown tired of the long days, crummy scripts, and the hack job Mr. and Mrs. Hacklowe did on her character in the last 43 minutes of an excuse of an episode.  She was the first shipper and as a fan has to be as pissed as many of us are/were.  She has a production company, and has purchased some works, and although I hate the thought of Mark Polish being involved, it seems as those she has hitched her film wagon to his star.  What is in store for NF post Castle, more Comic Cons, perhaps another Josh Weedon series, another series or soap??  Yes I think this is the last year for Castle and as I said I think it will be Stana saying enough, no more and moving on.  I hope I am wrong.

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break21

break21

I think Stana needs to distance herself from Mark Polish ASAP.  His last movie couldn't find a distributor, he was too broke to make a new one and was releasing how they made For Lovers Only to try and fund something.  That's not a guy you want to hitch your wagon to.  Stana, in my opinion, needs to stay on Castle as long as possible at this point.  She's only getting small roles in indies and Castle puts her in front of 12+ million people a week.  Castle goes away, it's hard to tell what's going to happen to her.  Best case, she gets another successful series (and the odds of anyone getting a successful series these days is slim). Worst case, she doesn't and can only get small roles in indies and gradually disappears.  If Nathan stays past Season 7 depends on how much money they throw at him and how much time off they give him.  Castle's a nice paycheck but career-wise, he doesn't really need it anymore.  He has enough friends in the industry that he'll always find work, and his fanbase is large enough and diverse enough that people want him in their projects because he brings a built-in audience.

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GeorgieNY

GeorgieNY

I found it very telling that in his panel (which I thought was great btw) when Nathan is asked what his favorite "Casket" moment is, he brought up the Demming love triangle, and spoke again about liking inviting people to laugh at him.  Not that he should be the one dictating this, but it one can infer that Castle's buffoonery is really Nathan's doing- not necessarily the creatives. I wish they could find a balance in the "laugh at him" moments, and retaining the suave character from the first few seasons. 

Marlowe should really know that people in loving relationships touch each other, kiss passionately, and don't usually sit so far apart on the couch while (not) drinking their wine. ;-)

justanoldDJ

justanoldDJ

8 minutes ago

 

I found it very telling that in his panel (which I thought was great btw) when Nathan is asked what his favorite "Casket" moment is, he brought up the Demming love triangle

 

I think in an early interview he said that at the end of S 1 Castle Blew it, but it was all Kate's doing why they were not together at the end of S 2, Beckett Blew it, by striking up a relationship with Demming then Lying, and Castle honored her choice and moved on, to Gina. but he did not play the jackass pining after her as he did in the previous episode.  I know a lot of people did not like A Deadly Game but to me it showed Rick was a man and had a pair and although he loved a woman was not going to continuously chase a dream.  The scene where he tells her he thinks they need a break is one of my favorites and is very well acted by all

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Cyranetta

Cyranetta

 

verdana: Often throughout the last two seasons it's been a lack of basic gentle touching or kissing at key moments that gets to me not the fact I don't get to see them rolling around in bed that often.

 

Ran across this today, and I'll bet you can guess which showrunner came to mind as I read it...<g>

McManda

McManda

I found it very telling that in his panel (which I thought was great btw) when Nathan is asked what his favorite "Casket" moment is, he brought up the Demming love triangle

 

I don't find it telling in that Nathan likes to be laguhed at - because I don't think the Demming triangle was really about Castle being a buffoon. I find it telling because the Demming arc and Castle figuring out how to be hurt but realistic was the last real character arc that Castle had. He's had episodes since then, like Alexis being kidnapped, or supporting Beckett through her PTSD in kill shot or playing the concerned boyfriend in ITBOTB, but those are just moments. Perhaps Castle's biggest arc since the Demming issue was Alexis moving out and trying to be independent, and even that was a B-story. Or maybe the douchebag arc, but that was really just a rehash of the Demming arc, except Castle was mean (instead of adult) about it.

 

I think it's an indication that he's bored more than anything. That he liked when his character had more motivation than just ... being there.

 

That said, I actually really like the Demming arc. I love "A Deadly Game" and all it encompasses, but my favorite, favorite part of the whole arc was when Castle walks into the hallway to see Beckett kissing Demming. That moment hurts me more than the end of S2.

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verdana

verdana

(edited)

I tend to think it will be Nathan that will be the key factor in deciding if the show continues on past S7 but if I was Stana after that cheap stunt Marlowe pulled with Beckett I'd be looking at that wondering what might be in store in the future and do I want more of that? Sure it's a steady pay cheque and it gets her face in magazines etc but I would have loved to have been a fly a wall when she opened that script up and saw what was coming. Because out of all of them I get the impression she's the only one left really gives a shit any more.  

 

I found it very telling that in his panel (which I thought was great btw) when Nathan is asked what his favorite "Casket" moment is, he brought up the Demming love triangle, and spoke again about liking inviting people to laugh at him.  Not that he should be the one dictating this, but it one can infer that Castle's buffoonery is really Nathan's doing- not necessarily the creatives. I wish they could find a balance in the "laugh at him" moments, and retaining the suave character from the first few seasons. 

I tend to agree with McManda that that was the last major story arc he had that gave him something interesting to do other than just stand there being Beckett's eternal sounding board. When Castle sees her kissing Demming was one of those moments which gets me emotionally every time and Nathan just nails it with one look. As for the buffoon aspect, I don't think he's dictating anything (he doesn't seem the type) but it wouldn't surprise me given comments he's made that the writers are more than willing to include where they can more comedic moments that play up this aspect which Nathan obviously enjoys. And by happy coincidence the showrunner will encourage this as it moves him away from having to focus on the romance.  But whatever the reason I find it sad that Castle is being played increasingly as some bumbling clown to be laughed at (not with) instead of the more suave, sharp, strong, confident guy he used to be. 

Edited by verdana
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Deeda

Deeda

  • Author

 

As for the buffoon aspect, I don't think he's dictating anything (he doesn't seem the type) but it wouldn't surprise me given comments he's made that the writers are more than willing to include where they can more comedic moments that play up this aspect which Nathan obviously enjoys playing. And by happy coincidence the showrunner will encourage this as it moves him away from having to focus on the romance.  But whatever the reason I find it sad that Castle is being played increasingly as some bumbling clown to be laughed at (not with) instead of the more suave, sharp, strong, confident guy he used to be.

 

The original premise of Castle was that it was a 'light-hearted drama' in that it dealt with murder and dead bodies, but had a humorous aspect to the stories.  I think they have gone off the path somewhat as far as the humor goes.  I, for one, do not find 'clowns' to be funny.  And I think that the showrunner going in the direction of bumbling clown to capture the lost humor is a mistake.  I wish they would watch the first season and get a handle on who the characters are, and what intelligent humor looks like!

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verdana

verdana

(edited)

Heh, thanks for the link Cyranetta.  

 

I do wonder how the negative online response to the finale will affect their writing for next season, not that it's likely we'll find out as they are not fans of acknowledging negativity and criticism. ;)  It's not a question of whether they will give us the wedding; it's a matter of how and when.  More the 'how' than the 'when' for me.   After a very poor passionless proposal, very poor boring wedding planning and tragedy on the wedding day, can they still deliver on an intimate, romantic and touching wedding that strikes the right tone and hits all the right notes after all the mishits and misfires?

Does any one really want to endure yet more wedding planning in S7? I don't and what's left for the writers to do? Even hardened Marlowe devotees won't be keen to wade through all that again. I can see him figuring by the time it gets to September and with the Always deleted scene fresh in many minds fans will have forgotten most of their anger over what happened in the finale so he can risk prolonging things. Sadly his track record doesn't fill me with confidence that when it comes down to it that the wedding will be finally worth the long wait. 

 

For Marlowe the destination seems to be far more important than how you get there. I'd love to see Castle struggling to get back to Beckett, give Nathan something to do and let the title character drive the story for once. Lets see Martha and Alexis bonding with Kate and have some proper meaningful conversations, give poor Lanie a chance to act like a good supportive friend for once. And please let them have a joyful passionate reunion! If they can't at that point then when the hell will they? I wouldn't care if they get married or not if I was getting genuine heartfelt moments out of Caskett every week. But Marlowe seems to have hit upon the bright idea of making Castle into a eunuch and I've had enough of watching them perched on that sofa engaging in often aimless rather stilted small talk which apparently passes for relationship development nowadays.

Edited by verdana
GeorgieNY

GeorgieNY

I don't think I expressed myself correctly- I agree that the Demming story was the last time Nathan had something really great to play, but it was interesting to em that that was his answer to "what's your favorite Caskett moment?", not what is your favorite storyline. I also thought that storyline was actually great and lead to nice moments where we could actually feel something.

I also didn't mean that he is making the writers or show runners portray Castle as a buffoon, but that when he said (and often says) he likes to invite people to laugh at the character, this has to affect his acting choices and I don't necessarily think the directors contradict that- and maybe they should.

In the panel, he also talks about his acting syle as opposed to very studied actors which connects nicely to the post above about "head" actors vs "heart" actors. As related to Stana and Nathan, he jumped in and just started working, while she has a masters degree in acting from DePaul. Very different approaches indeed.

verdana

verdana

(edited)

I also didn't mean that he is making the writers or show runners portray Castle as a buffoon, but that when he said (and often says) he likes to invite people to laugh at the character, this has to affect his acting choices and I don't necessarily think the directors contradict that- and maybe they should.

Someone discussed this before (not here) and I thought it was an interesting point to consider but then it's the director's fault for allowing it to happen. If they want a more romantic scene then they need to tell the actors accordingly, it's not as if they're going to refuse and I know Fillion can play up the romance if he needs to. But I think it does suit the showrunner in any case, hell may be even the directors are told to encourage the comedy aspect whenever possible when Nathan is around. The humour feels like just another barrier now to their relationship, like Deeda I feel the show has moved away from the kind of subtle, quirky comedy it once did so well into more broad, slapstick territory.

I know there have been many times over the last season or so when I've wondered how the hell the directors haven't seen the obvious discrepancy between how both actors are behaving in so called "romantic" scenes and not done something about it. For me it's at times almost embarrassing which makes me think TPTB are more than happy with the current situation.

Edited by verdana
  • Love 1
turnitwayup

turnitwayup

 

For me it's at times almost embarrassing which makes me think TPTB are more than happy with the current situation.

 

It's more depressing that it's like they don't care anymore and just going through the motions til the show ends. They're capable to write a good show but as a collective effort they don't. I think that the best arc from s6 is probably the DC arc and that's including getting her job back at the NYPD. Castle/Alexi/Pi arc was terrible and the wedding planning seemed pointless. I think the Bracken storyline would've been stronger if there were subtle hints that Castkett was investigating Vulcan in the eps between ITBOTB and Veritas, but this show can't seemed to handle C and D storylines in an ep cause they tie everything to whatever the cotw is. If Marlowe ever gets another show, he should consider 13 ep seasons cause he can't seemed to handle over 22 eps a season anymore based on the "running on fumes" comment.

Gant

Gant

(edited)

Castle has always been laughed at. Starting with episode 1 he was constantly put in ridiculous, ego-damaging situations, and a big part of his charm came from him either being oblivious to it or being “above” in a good-natured way. The difference is, he also had other things going for him.

 

I believe I already talked about this some time ago at TWoP, but in my opinion the main thing wrong with the show is skewed balance on every level - in storylines, in characters, in relationships. Building blocks are mostly the same, it’s just the proportions that make the whole construction so frail and rather unattractive.  Castle’s other qualities, background details and functions in the story were washed out to the point that he is now just a walking ridiculousness, “The Chronicles of Ridic” (sorry, couldn’t resist). Something that has always been part of him, took up the whole character, evidently because writers find it easier to write one quality per person. Which is understandable, but not very satisfying to watch.

 

Beckett used to be partly ridiculous too, but then stopped and hasn’t been for years (banning the finale). This, and other things, unbalanced her character to the point of being hard to believe and relate to IMO. Their relationship became unbalanced as a result. It goes to every level, every character and connections between them.

 

So I don’t see anything wrong with an actor enjoying this aspect in particular. It only gives more real feeling to the character IMO. But of course, it needs to be balanced out by other aspects to not turn into a caricature of itself. Have to say I find it hard to enjoy a character that is completely devoid of ridiculousness, it’s hard to relate. So all my faves tend to be on this, humanly flawed side, lol. Btw Mal Reynolds in Firefly was constantly ridiculed and made fun of, both by characters and circumstances, but he doesn’t come across as a buffoon at all because of all the other interesting things going with, around and in him.

 

Excellent post, McManda, and I totally agree about the Demming arc. I also liked the season 2 finale, if only they hadn’t built up Gina  as such an undesirable partner for Castle beforehand, I would’ve been absolutely convinced with that arc. It’s small-scale, relatable and character-driven, in contract to other Castle finales.

 

Thanks for the link, as usual, Flicker. I really enjoyed watching this panel, watch gag and dr. Horrible cosplayer were especially fun bits. And I liked how he dealt  with that girl asking for a kiss. Seriously, some people, lol.

Edited by Gant
  • Love 5
verdana

verdana

(edited)

It's more depressing that it's like they don't care anymore and just going through the motions til the show ends. They're capable to write a good show but as a collective effort they don't. I think that the best arc from s6 is probably the DC arc and that's including getting her job back at the NYPD. Castle/Alexi/Pi arc was terrible and the wedding planning seemed pointless. I think the Bracken storyline would've been stronger if there were subtle hints that Castkett was investigating Vulcan in the eps between ITBOTB and Veritas, but this show can't seemed to handle C and D storylines in an ep cause they tie everything to whatever the cotw is. If Marlowe ever gets another show, he should consider 13 ep seasons cause he can't seemed to handle over 22 eps a season anymore based on the "running on fumes" comment.

Yeah that's sure what it feels like. The DC story arc worked out okay I have to admit, I thought it would be a mess. They behaved more naturally during those episodes than at any other point in the season. But I suspect the increased levels of more open easy going affection between them was precisely because they were doing something different and wanted to keep the fans pacified with decent Caskett moments to distract them.  

 

However, even that arc didn't end that satisfactorily, Beckett walks back into her old job with zero consequences for her actions. Sully disappears off the face of the earth without even a passing mention to explain where he went. That was lazy as hell by the writers considering they had made it clear he was taking up her desk space. Meanwhile Espo and Ryan seemed happy to go back to taking orders from her as if nothing has happened. As for Beckett herself there was no period of reflection, no one talked about her getting fired when she returned, not even Castle it was like the whole experience had never happened.  I have no idea if Kate learnt anything useful at all from going to DC and that's what I wanted to find out, it felt like the character simply ended up back right where they started. 

 

As for their investigation into VS, I agree it was a pity they didn't show them investigating beforehand, it would have been a nice emotional build up to Veritas but instead I got a line of exposition to explain what's they had been up to when I should have been seeing it instead. Most showrunners can weave threads of a particular story throughout the season for a set number of episodes to keep the audience clued in and invested.  Doesn't need to be every week but the odd reference here and there keeps the pot boiling but not on Castle. One thing gets dealt with at a time per episode and other characters just get shuttled off screen because he has nothing for them to do. I can't quite decide if it's sheer incompetence or that he can't be bothered or he's so set rigid in his ways of working by now that he has no wish to change things. 

 

Marlowe seems stuck in the dark ages, other showrunners are far more flexible and sophisticated about how they plan things out and actually trust their audience to be able to keep track of what's going on. I agree that it's best for Marlowe to be given a shorter run which suits the limitations of his style of storytelling better because the show at the moment always tends to sag badly mid season and then suddenly everything gets crammed into the last 3 episodes and in between that you get filler where the characters do nothing much. 

Edited by verdana
verdana

verdana

(edited)

Stana, in Italy, filming "The Tourist". Some photos w. fans. 

Thanks Samantha. I really wish she would have that hair length on the show, it's much more flattering although I would like her to darken it a shade slightly too.  However, since Marlowe has said they'll be picking up where they left off after the car crash I guess that's not much chance of a change and Stana seems to prefer Beckett with very long hair. 

Eye Health Centres @EyeHealthCentre  ·  3h

Doctor Monea with Nathan Fillion (from the TV series CASTLE) at his Grandmother's 90 Birthday!

https://twitter.com/EyeHealthCentre/status/476421698259267584

 

Edited by verdana
WendyCR72

WendyCR72

I think he was probably joking to some degree, but that's kind of an awful thing to want to happen to your character.

 

Yeah, but actors are a strange breed. What the fans like, they may not and vice versa. I even sat through another show and had this scenario happen. Still pisses me off when I think of it, but the actor wanted the character to die. I guess actors like the endings that go for the jugular or whatever and leave an impression. Positive or negative, as long as people talk about it.

Tripp

Tripp

Yeah, but actors are a strange breed. What the fans like, they may not and vice versa. I even sat through another show and had this scenario happen. Still pisses me off when I think of it, but the actor wanted the character to die. I guess actors like the endings that go for the jugular or whatever and leave an impression. Positive or negative, as long as people talk about it.

Yea.  A soap opera I watched had a character which was super good and decent...they chose to make him a villain.  The actor LOVED it and I watched with horror as a character I came to adore became vile and hated. The solace of everyone praising the actor for his range wasn't that comforting, I already knew he was a good actor.  Anyway, he was asked recently how he wanted his character to go out, he said he wanted him to take a gun and blow his brains out.  The show didn't go that far with it, but very close.  So Nathan's answer doesn't shock me at all.

McManda

McManda

He's said that he's wanted his character to die before ... he's said it about Mal, too. I think he's just looking for something interesting and different, but he's always followed the comment up with "... so no one else can play him", so I think it's also some degree of acting arrogance. (Because do you really want someone that's not you to play your character if they decide to reboot the series?) I wouldn't read too much into it as being an accurate reflection of his feelings toward Castle.

 

Hey look, it's dark and he doesn't look like he does on Castle. All the hiatus photos make me really notice how much worse they make him look on the show.

 

Do we know if he's going to ComicCon this year? (When is ComicCon? Will they have started filming?) Is Zach Levi doing NerdHerd? I think NerdHerd looks better than ComicCon - less commercial and more personal. I hope he keeps it going.

rspad

rspad

Unless your character dies on camera, someone else can always come and play you with a recast

 

In fact, that's what happened with his Joey Buchanan character - three other actors stepped in after Nathan left in 1997.  Side note, I had no idea he briefly returned in 2007 for a couple of episodes celebrating OLTL's 10,000th episode.

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