Whatever Happened to the Old Haunt and Other Show Related Mysteries

[TWP]

That may not be necessarily true. I have read of some writers working remotely and interacting via the 'net. But for Castle, it would be great if everyone can up their game, whether they are all together physically or not.

 

Surely they can arrange a Google+ hangout or something ;-).

[Elysium1973]

First, hey everybody! So glad to see my fellow TWOPers. verdana, sweet, KD, McManda, tripp (sorry if I forgot anyone).

Re Nathan's grandma picture: he looks hot as hell. I mean sexy motherfing hot. Almost season 1&2 hot. And there's no love lost for me and Fillion. But goddamn. Can someone tweet Hacklowe or PA Terri or John Lopes or the president of ABC programming? Cause I thought I heard he had to shave it bc his beard was getting grey. I see no grey there. Plus he cut his air, which makes him look a million, billion times better. That big mop he usually wears makes him look dated or something. So kudos to Fillion for not looking like a hot mess during the hiatus!

As for Hacklowe & co, they had better be toiling away day and night to fix this clusterfuck of a finale. The Hack deserves to watch Heartbreak Hotel, 47 Seconds (and the rest of the douche arc), The SATQ, and most of the sixth season on repeat until they figure all this shit out. That should be their punishment.

As far as Hack and P.A. Terri, don't count on them stepping aside. I was in a room with them for an hour and I can already tell you that those two think they're pretty goddamned special. Hack more than PAT. He really believes he's a genius like Vince Gilligan or David Chase.

Everytime I think about that twitter post of his when he said he was Heart and not Hart, I want to egg his house. You cocky mother fucker. Guess what show is going into season 10 with a kick ass season 9 finale (directed by the lead actor, no less)? And guess what show will, god willing, end next season and has the distinction of being the worst finale of 2014? Better get cracking, you dipshit.

[retrograde]

But it just goes to show you it's not about the budget available because Still is one of the most popular episodes with the fans and considering they seem to waste so much on expensive wedding dresses and other items I'm not sure I have much sympathy.

 

I don't know a huge heap about how TV shows are made, but I'm pretty sure the marketing budget ABC Marketing has for the show and the costume budget the show creators have are entirely separate. I don't think Marlowe can just go pawn the engagement ring then organise a cast field trip to the Sears Portrait Studio with the profits. 

[WendyCR72]

And guess what show will, god willing, end next season and has the distinction of being the worst finale of 2014?

 

Sorry, Elysium1973, but How I Met Your Mother (Then Waited For Her To Croak So I Could Go Back To Sniffing After Aunt Robin!) will forever hold that particular "honor". I can't even watch repeats of that shit anymore because of that finale.

 

But Marlowe can be content with having Castle be next in line.

[Elysium1973]

Haha. True that wendy. I didn't watch that show so I can't comment in any detail. I worked on a horrible movie with NPH 17 years ago and I still haven't recovered from his all around diva from hell self aggrandizing asshat ways. And this was 1997, when he was a nobody. He got mad when we called him Doogie.

Anyway, from what I read the assclowns that wrote that finale fucked up real bad. I think their spin off got canceled. I wish someone would cancel Hacklowe.

[verdana]

I don't know a huge heap about how TV shows are made, but I'm pretty sure the marketing budget ABC Marketing has for the show and the costume budget the show creators have are entirely separate. I don't think Marlowe can just go pawn the engagement ring then organise a cast field trip to the Sears Portrait Studio with the profits. 

Heh. I'm sure they do have separate budgets obviously for various departments. However, in the end it all adds up no matter where you spend the cash in a business (and this is a business), the designer clothing, talk of expensive rings and their replacements, sets built but never used. It's easy to throw money around but ignore what's important which is the writing and that's what is being neglected right now.  And to hear Marlowe suggest that with a healthy budget to start the season he can give fans more of what they want says quite a bit about their mindset. Still didn't cost much because they didn't have much and yet I thought it was a great episode - it's not about the cash it's about the creativity - and that was really my point. 

[merylinkid]

And heavens when they do blow the costume budget is is horrendous.   Remember that hideous bathing suit with the fluttery pieces of whatever when they went to LA?   And yes, the wedding dress will forever be the top of the list.   Especially when it turned out she looked best in her mother's wedding dress.

 

Personally, if I have to follow the showrunner's or the writers' tweets to understand what I just saw on my tv, they are doing it wrong.   TV is a visual medium.   If you don't show it, it doesn't count.   If you have to explain afterwards the deep meaning you meant to convey, you didn't.   Put your time and effort into showing the story, not media budgets that explain the show.

[retrograde]

And to hear Marlowe suggest that with a healthy budget to start the season he can give fans more of what they want says quite a bit about their mindset. Still didn't cost much because they didn't have much and yet I thought it was a great episode - it's not about the cash it's about the creativity - and that was really my point. 

Ah, gotcha. Yeah, I actually have disliked what have probably been the most expensive episodes, because those tend to be the ones where they're trying to copycat action flicks with huge explosions and effects, which: zzzz. 

[verdana]

And heavens when they do blow the costume budget is is horrendous.   Remember that hideous bathing suit with the fluttery pieces of whatever when they went to LA?   And yes, the wedding dress will forever be the top of the list.   Especially when it turned out she looked best in her mother's wedding dress.

 

Personally, if I have to follow the showrunner's or the writers' tweets to understand what I just saw on my tv, they are doing it wrong.   TV is a visual medium.   If you don't show it, it doesn't count.   If you have to explain afterwards the deep meaning you meant to convey, you didn't.   Put your time and effort into showing the story, not media budgets that explain the show.

Oh yes that swimming costume, God awful. 

 

I'm right with you on show don't tell and what happens to the general audience who don't want (or can't) get to read forums or follow twitter, tumblr etc and pick up on all this stuff? Marlowe loves things to happen off screen that I would pay dearly to see but he doesn't seem to think they're important or interesting. He's obsessed with the COTW when it's the characters that fans are attached to and tune into see but he doesn't seem to get it. 

 

Chad Gomez Creasey @chadgcreasey  ·  20h

I know something you don't know. #Castle S7

 

Hopefully this means that MilMar aren't in charge of writing the premiere, to avoid further damage especially to Beckett (I'm dreading finding out next she has an evil twin) they let another writer sort this mess out.

Elysium. I got the impression from your meeting with them in Austin that they had a pretty high opinion of their own brilliance as storytellers. Doesn't bode well for them heeding any complaints about the direction of the show and the finale I must say. 

 

Nathan does look smoking hot in that picture and I don't see any grey either! What he's worried about? Jesus if he could turn up looking like that on Castle come 7.01 it would be a good start. 

Ah, gotcha. Yeah, I actually have disliked what have probably been the most expensive episodes, because those tend to be the ones where they're trying to copycat action flicks with huge explosions and effects, which: zzzz. 

I find the dramatic episodes on Castle have got bigger and more flashy as the storytelling has weakened. I suppose it makes sense to use it as a distraction and hope fans are so busy wowing over it they don't notice there's very little substance behind what they're seeing.  Marlowe seems to like showing off his action and drama skills but its the characters that should be the focus of the story not explosive set pieces. 

[Samantha84]

Luke R. [costume designer] needs to be fired. He's not worth the money they pay him and I don't even know what it is but whatever it is, it's too damn much!

Nathan's clothes are made so there shouldn't be any damn reason for the way they fit. Heavier or not Nathan/Castle's clothes should fit him to a T.  Castle is supposed to be a multimillionaire but Beckett is the one that looks it. I miss Sal [costume designer season 1 and 2]. 

The lighting doesn't help either. It's always dark and makes everyone look orange! 

[madmaverick]

Count me in with those who want to see a scruffy Castle kick start the season!  NF's looking good with the scruff.  Might give a much missed edginess and/or sexiness/suaveness to the character.  I thought they missed an opportunity to have him be scruffy when Alexis was kidnapped (who has time to shave when your daughter's whereabouts are unknown?!).  And of course they're missing an opportunity to have a hot scene with Castle and Beckett in the bathroom.....shaving, amongst other things.  But wanting to see a hot scene on this show is a pipe dream, I know. ;)  Seriously, a forthcoming passionate, all consuming, door-breaking reunion scene that leaves Always in the dust (yeah, right) is the one good thing I hope can come out of this plot. 

 

Sigh.  The Always scene still looks ever so good in .gifs on tumblr.  Were they afraid they'd never top that so henceforth decided to never go there again? ;)

 

He's obsessed with the COTW when it's the characters that fans are attached to and tune into see but he doesn't seem to get it.

 

And yet the COTW that gets all the attention is still so terribly weak!  Amongst the weakest out of the cop shows.

 

Hopefully this means that MilMar aren't in charge of writing the premiere, to avoid further damage especially to Beckett (I'm dreading finding out next she has an evil twin) they let another writer sort this mess out.

 

 

I'm dreading an evil Castle doppelganger.  Surely not?!  I mean, how many TV tropes can you do?  Oh wait...

 

I find the dramatic episodes on Castle have got bigger and more flashy as the storytelling has weakened. I suppose it makes sense to use it as a distraction and hope fans are so busy wowing over it they don't notice there's very little substance behind what they're seeing.  Marlowe seems to like showing off his action and drama skills but its the characters that should be the focus of the story not explosive set pieces.

 

Bigger storytelling has definitely not meant more interesting storytelling.  And some of it has been so ridiculous.  I mean, that Linchpin theory?  Seriously?!  And the way they explained it just about put me to sleep.  What I remember is Caskett not getting a proper moment after their near death experience in the water.  So in other words there was an expensive stunt that did nothing for me, added nothing to the story of the characters.  More often than not bigger storytelling is even more plot driven than usual, when ideally characters should be in the driving seat.  It's always the smaller, intimate, more revealing character moments that are full of heart that get me attached to a show, be they funny or serious.  Those well crafted moments have become a rarity on the show.

 

[Brit Babe]

Re Nathan's grandma picture: he looks hot as hell. I mean sexy motherfing hot. Almost season 1&2 hot. And there's no love lost for me and Fillion. But goddamn. Can someone tweet Hacklowe or PA Terri or John Lopes or the president of ABC programming? Cause I thought I heard he had to shave it bc his beard was getting grey. I see no grey there. Plus he cut his air, which makes him look a million, billion times better. That big mop he usually wears makes him look dated or something. So kudos to Fillion for not looking like a hot mess during the hiatus!

 

I agree, loving the scruff and the haircut. Even if there was the tiniest bit of grey in there, does it matter? It's not like he is playing a young 20-something.

 

 

I don't know a huge heap about how TV shows are made, but I'm pretty sure the marketing budget ABC Marketing has for the show and the costume budget the show creators have are entirely separate. I don't think Marlowe can just go pawn the engagement ring then organise a cast field trip to the Sears Portrait Studio with the profits. 

 

Heh. I'm sure they do have separate budgets obviously for various departments. However, in the end it all adds up no matter where you spend the cash in a business (and this is a business), the designer clothing, talk of expensive rings and their replacements, sets built but never used. It's easy to throw money around but ignore what's important which is the writing and that's what is being neglected right now. 

 

The budget they wasted on the first dress, when they could have bought it for a few thousand instead of tens of thousands, the money wasted on replacement rings when we rarely saw the original. All this money could be diverted elsewhere in production or at least buying Nathan some t-shirts.

 

ETA: retrograde - I love your avatar!

Edited June 3, 2014 by Brit Babe

[KaveDweller]

Personally, if I have to follow the showrunner's or the writers' tweets to understand what I just saw on my tv, they are doing it wrong.   TV is a visual medium.   If you don't show it, it doesn't count.   If you have to explain afterwards the deep meaning you meant to convey, you didn't.   Put your time and effort into showing the story, not media budgets that explain the show.

When I was in 8th grade my creative writing teacher told us that if our writing doesn't stand on it's own and we had to explain it, there was a problem.  She was a total bitch though.  She'd tear Marlowe apart.

 

I agree, loving the scruff and the haircut. Even if there was the tiniest bit of grey in there, does it matter? It's not like he is playing a young 20-something.

 

The budget they wasted on the first dress, when they could have bought it for a few thousand instead of tens of thousands, the money wasted on replacement rings when we rarely saw the original. All this money could be diverted elsewhere in production or at least buying Nathan some t-shirts.

 Nathan still doesn't do anything for me, but I can still see he looks like a thousand times better in those pictures.  How is it possible that he looks so much worse on set? Do they use some kind of camera lens that are like the anti-skinny mirror?

 

I'm sure the budgets are separate for different departments, but there is a bottom like that Marlowe has to spend.  I don't think he controls marketing, but stuff like custom, locations, hair extensions, light bulbs, I think he does have a say.

[Samantha84]

the Sears Portrait Studio

 

lmao. With the way the official promos and the poster  [Castle w. different color collar & sleeves - seriously no one noticed this big screw up before sending it to press] -- the Sear Portrait Studio might not be so bad. 

[retrograde]

The budget they wasted on the first dress, when they could have bought it for a few thousand instead of tens of thousands, the money wasted on replacement rings when we rarely saw the original. All this money could be diverted elsewhere in production or at least buying Nathan some t-shirts.

Eh, I don't know much about TV production costs, but I imagine there is so much stuff off-screen that costs huge sums of money (special lights and cranes and rentals and insurance and who knows what else) that it's pretty hard for us as viewers to assess finances and how they do or don't impact the show. I don't think perceived "wastes of money" is worth getting upset about when we simply have no idea what the budgets and costs are, anyway. (Though heh on the t-shirts).

 

ETA: retrograde - I love your avatar!

Sorts the Commonwealth commenters from the rest!

[Samantha84]

I thought Luke made that monstrosity that was the 1st dress?  I don't think Luke or Marlowe anticipated that reaction to the dress .. b/c I don't believe for a hot second that the plan all along was to have Beckett wear her mother's dress.  Hell even Laurie [Zaks - former EP] and Sal [Perez, Jr. - former costume designer] were making cracks about it on twitter. 

[KaveDweller]

I thought Luke made that monstrosity that was the 1st dress?  I don't think Luke or Marlowe anticipated that reaction to the dress .. b/c I don't believe for a hot second that the plan all along was to have Beckett wear her mother's dress.  

He did make the dress, but then they claimed it was $30,000 or something like that.  I don't know if that means it cost that much to make, or it's what they think it would have gone for in retail.  

 

But Marlowe did admit that wasn't always the plan, and that when they saw the reaction they thought it would be "fun" to ruin it.  But he also insisted that some people did like the dress.  Which I'm sure is true, but there are people out there who believe the earth is flat, so that doesn't really mean much.

 

I wish he would take viewer input on other issues, but he probably only reads that "In Marlowe We Trust" crap.

[GeorgieNY]

But he also insisted that some people did like the dress. Which I'm sure is true, but there are people out there who believe the earth is flat, so that doesn't really mean much.

I wish he would take viewer input on other issues, but he probably only reads that "In Marlowe We Trust" crap.

Bwahahahaha! Yeah, that dress was just a monstrosity. Luke wrote a book on style, didn't he? That dress would have gotten him kicked off of Project Runway for sure.

And yes, if Marlowe is going to read the good feedback, he should be required to read the bad (and of course, the constructive! )

As far as the budget goes, I work both on Broadway and in NYC TV and it's so shocking sometimes what they choose to throw money at, and then what they deem "too expensive".

(Edited for typos )

Edited June 5, 2014 by GeorgieNY

[turnitwayup]

 

That dress would have gotten him kicked off of Project Runway for sure.

 

Ikr? It seems like he wants to be on the show since he did that dress, the several smaller mock ups and doesn't even bother tailoring Castle coats/jackets to fit his body. He's like perfect candidate to fail during the men's wear challenge. I wish he would nominate himself for that show so this show can get a new stylist. S2 is being rerun and I really miss Beckett's boatneck shirts in red, white and navy. She looked good in them yet practical. I also miss that red coat she wore in The Fifth Bullet. Castle was wearing a lot of pinstripe suits too. Luke needs to get away from all that plaid. The only one that can get away with plaid suits is Hannibal.

[verdana]

 Castle is supposed to be a multimillionaire but Beckett is the one that looks it. I miss Sal [costume designer season 1 and 2]. 

The lighting doesn't help either. It's always dark and makes everyone look orange! 

Glad I'm not the only one who thinks the lighting makes them look orange thought it was my crappy eyesight. 

 

Regarding your first point. That's partly what bothers me about the Beckett supermodel makeover and Castle's fall from grace on the sartorial front. There doesn't seem to have been any real thought given by Luke to the characters they're playing in contrast to the first two seasons under Salvador Perez. He seems to spend most of his time fussing over Stana and ignoring Nathan completely. Beckett now looks way better than him and he couldn't look less like the guy that walked into Kate's life in the pilot. He clearly liked to dress well (but not obsessively so) and looked every inch the millionaire, playboy writer they were aiming for and Beckett looked the part of the professional buttoned up cop who liked decent clothes but her wardrobe definitely wasn't stuffed with designer goods as evidenced when she was desperately searching for a dress to wear that was so adorable. Now it would never wash she's a walking fashion plate, she's all beauty pageant hair, designer outfits and at times odd ball fashion choices that should never be worn by any detective on duty.

 

Meanwhile poor Castle looks like a guy ten years older than he should be, who got dressed in the dark with his eighty year old mother helping him choose his suits. As she's got hotter he's got more slovenly and frumpy and there's no valid reason for his decline. Why couldn't Luke just keep on doing what Perez was doing? Why can't he find a suit that fits Nathan for crying out loud? Other designers manage to achieve this but Luke seems incapable of figuring out how to make a big guy like Fillion look good. That's a basic requirement from a supposedly experienced fashion designer.

 

I could hand wave the change in Beckett in that it's love making her come out of her shell and start expressing herself by glamming herself up but him? Does falling in love really have such a sudden dire effect on your wardrobe? 

Terri Edda Miller @TerriEdda · 17h

And we're back. #Castle

 

Finally breaking her twitter silence, I wonder what "delights" Terri has planned after that finale?  

 

 

[verdana]

I couldn't help laughing when one fan pointed out that in the finale Castle finally gets to drive a car and he ends up in a fireball, that'll teach him!  

 

Bigger storytelling has definitely not meant more interesting storytelling.  And some of it has been so ridiculous.  I mean, that Linchpin theory?  Seriously?!  And the way they explained it just about put me to sleep.  What I remember is Caskett not getting a proper moment after their near death experience in the water.  So in other words there was an expensive stunt that did nothing for me, added nothing to the story of the characters.  More often than not bigger storytelling is even more plot driven than usual, when ideally characters should be in the driving seat.  It's always the smaller, intimate, more revealing character moments that are full of heart that get me attached to a show, be they funny or serious.  Those well crafted moments have become a rarity on the show.

That moment after the car went into the river was a prime example of big action/drama over content. They missed a glorious opportunity to have the car accident lead on to a truly satisfying emotional moment between them. And that's a common occurrence on this show, the emotional aftermath is often treated superficially or ignored entirely and it's such a let down. Because you know these are two actors who could really create something special between them if given the time and the script. 

 

I agree it doesn't have to be a big moment to draw something out of them as a couple and make you remember it long after the episode is done. Some of my favourites: Kate worrying she'll let her mother down in Sucker Punch and Castle comes out with the "because you're tall" line. I loved that little exchange it said so much about them as a couple mixing humor with a serious intense moment really well unlike the slapstick buffoonery they tend to give Castle now. Her reveal about the stick man in her desk drawer when Castle's persistence finally pays off and she opens up to him. Once again Sucker Punch, Castle says he can't follow her any more and the "pulling my pigtails" speech.  Any time Beckett's listening enraptured to his storytelling which is so much a part of their relationship sadly the show seems to have almost forgotten about that now.

 

And there are other moments not Caskett related which I adore: Castle getting Alexis to call her friend's parents when she brings someone home drunk, still loving but a firm no nonsense dad. God how I wish there had been some of that on show during the Alexis/Pi arc.  Castle sending Martha and Alexis away when he thinks there's a dirty bomb in New York, wonderful moment for Fillion there. Martha's rightful anger at Castle in Knockdown as he's acting all oblivious as to why she should be worried about him and of course that scene ends with "its not about the books any more", great little moment for Susan and Nathan. Martha's "I raised a good man" line when she's being comforted by her son over Chet's death (that's when Martha had a life outside the loft!) always gets me every time. 

 

Watching some of those scenes today feels like getting a feast in comparison to what they serve up now as meaningful character interaction, poor Susan barely gets a chance to wave her hands in the air let alone exercise her acting skills. Meanwhile Stana and Nathan get a minute if they're lucky to make something count emotionally. Some of the best moments between Caskett have came out of the cases and the way it's happened always felt very natural now they're a much more clumsy blunt object used to facilitate the B storyline and often it's not done very well (Limelight springs to mind). Back in those early days it didn't feel so forced, characters were also allowed time to breathe and it seemed more meaningful because of that. 

 

 

[Brit Babe]

He did make the dress, but then they claimed it was $30,000 or something like that.  I don't know if that means it cost that much to make, or it's what they think it would have gone for in retail.  

 

The only cost in retail it would have gone for, is the cost of a match.

 

 

 

That moment after the car went into the river was a prime example of big action/drama over content. They missed a glorious opportunity to have the car accident lead on to a truly satisfying emotional moment between them. And that's a common occurrence on this show, the emotional aftermath is often treated superficially or ignored entirely and it's such a let down. Because you know these are two actors who could really create something special between them if given the time and the script. 

 

I agree, I don't mind big action/drama as long as there is an aftermath to it, but it usually gets brushed under the carpet never to be spoken of again.

 

 

And there are other moments not Caskett related which I adore: Castle getting Alexis to call her friend's parents when she brings someone home drunk, still loving but a firm no nonsense dad. God how I wish there had been some of that on show during the Alexis/Pi arc. 

 

I absolutely adore that scene, in many shows it would have been a parent siding with child but I loved that he was acted like a proper parent. Also, I love the scene when Martha comes home and tells Castle Chet's dead.

Edited June 4, 2014 by Brit Babe

[verdana]

That's what's so frustrating about the show. They know how to do it the right way but choose not to, because they're too lazy.

That's the impression I get, they know the product they're selling isn't a patch on what it was but they don't need to be that fussed, ratings are stable so why bother pushing themselves?

 

If I didn't know what they could do I wouldn't complain about it, I'm not asking for the moon and stars I just want the old show back with the added bonus of Castle and Beckett as a couple. 

[Samantha84]

I just want the old show back with the added bonus of Castle and Beckett as a couple.

 

This sums up exactly what I want. Season 1 and 2 cases, B stories, but w. added bonus of Castle/Beckett together. 

[Samantha84]

What do I want from Castle and Beckett? Intimacy. No, that doesn't have to mean sex. 

 

My favorite couple on primetime television are: Olivia and Fitz . These two can have a conversation, on the phone, and it's dripping w. intimacy and love.

Their most famous scene are the "one minute" scene. The first one they just look at each other. No dialogue. Intimacy.  The second one their not even looking at each other. The most love, intimate, beautiful scene filled w the most chemistry I've seen on primetime, daytime, or the big screen. Still get goosebumps when I watch.

 

Nathan and Stana have amazing chemistry and it's a shame that it's been watered down so much this past season. They can have that kind of intimacy & love if given the chance. It's like Marlowe is afraid of that. Like showing them intimate or making love some how taints their love. It doesn't, it wouldn't. Sex is just another way of showing love -- in physical form. Give us back the Castle/Beckett that acted like they are in love, wanted each other, emotionally, physically .. Marlowe & Co. 

[Tripp]

So it's been like a month since the finale right? Still rather bitter about it.  That picture from Twitter a few weeks ago of Nathan with Lana Parrilla and her fiancee had me wishing OUAT's Regina could show up and it be revealed she cast a spell to change the ending to Castle.  Oh well.

 

But holy hell.  What the heck is with the super hot scruffy pictures of Nathan?  I saw that one at his grandmother's house and it makes me wish I was 90 years old so he can visit me.  (Which probably defeat the purpose of him visiting me but nevertheless).

[verdana]

Tripp. Heh I think it would still be worth him paying you a visit! 

 

Talking about the finale and fans wondering if Marlowe would change anything because of it. Didn't Marlowe or Bowman admit in some DVD commentary that they changed the way Castle came across in 3.01 because of fans reactions to him happily walking off with Gina and not looking like he realised the pain he had caused Kate?  Then there were the comments post finale about Pi disappearing and the dress getting replaced so clearly they do look at fan reaction to the show and pick and choose what they want to react to. Pity they don't allow Caskett more intimacy (Samantha's spot on it's been watered right down) that's been something a lot of fans have been on about since they got together but no such luck! 

Edited June 5, 2014 by verdana

[Cyranetta]

Pop Matters had an article today pertinent to the problems that have been noticed (with a specific mention of Castle): The Plight of "Secondary Sex"

[verdana]

Thanks Cyranetta.

Once we get beyond the cutesy first glances and the first trip to the bedroom, Hollywood can’t figure out how to make romance, relationships, or sex interesting anymore.

 

Marlowe by the looks of things hasn't a clue what to do with them as a couple, he can't seem to wrap his head around the idea that having them simply continue on as they were with the flirtatious banter and sexy teasing with the added bonus of their physical coupling was all that you needed to create magic. Instead he dampened down the fires and held them back which made their interactions often awkward because they weren't behaving as I would expect.  Always really was the high point and the last two seasons with the odd stand out exception have felt like one long exercise in avoidance. 

 

Fail factor: Just how bad was the 2013-14 TV season for new shows? at Zap2it. thought it was interesting that ABC has the worse fail rate out the bunch, Marlowe will feel he's safe for a good while yet. 

Edited June 5, 2014 by verdana

[Samantha84]

It seems like Marlowe thinks bookend scenes, that last 5 minutes combines, is all the "romance" we need to see of Castle and Beckett. 

[KaveDweller]

 

Fail factor: Just how bad was the 2013-14 TV season for new shows? at Zap2it. thought it was interesting that ABC has the worse fail rate out the bunch, Marlowe will feel he's safe for a good while yet. 

 

ABC has been having a really hard time launching new shows.  I think they probably had the highest fail rate in the past couple of years.  Castle actually may have been cancelled already if it weren't for that.  While it's ratings are decent, they aren't great.

[Samantha84]

Castle season 6 DVD will be available September 16th  ... and someone finlly fixed the fuck up and made Nathan/Castle's collar and cuff the same color on the cover of the DVD box. 

[Samantha84]

Per Marlowe's tweet [about 10 mins ago]: 
Can I just say how proud I am of our writers? I'm so excited by everything we've been talking about.

 

I found myself rolling my eyes and not falling for the bullshit. We'll see and I'll decide how excited I am.

[verdana]

Per Marlowe's tweet [about 10 mins ago]: 

Can I just say how proud I am of our writers? I'm so excited by everything we've been talking about.

 

I found myself rolling my eyes and not falling for the bullshit. We'll see and I'll decide how excited I am.

We must have been eye rolling at the same time, I was just about to come and post this tweet with pretty much the same remark! 

 

I'm wary of any talk about the premiere coming from cast or crew after what happened in the finale. I've got a wait and see policy going on over the summer. 

[verdana]

ABC has been having a really hard time launching new shows.  I think they probably had the highest fail rate in the past couple of years.  Castle actually may have been cancelled already if it weren't for that.  While it's ratings are decent, they aren't great.

Yeah I think Castle has been lucky in that regard. It is not some ratings star, it does okay but nothing special, especially in the key demo. It's going to be interesting if any of the new ABC shows do take off and even if they don't how the competition next year in that timeslot affects Castle.  

[Tripp]

In regards to asking if sometimes Marlowe and his team listen to fans reactions, I think that is true.  I'm sure some storylines have changed/altered due to fan reaction.  Alexis choosing to take her lumps and live on her own in her apartment because she didn't want her father paying for her mistakes with Pi (by having to break the lease) and then she and Kate having a short discussion is one example I think.  

 

Oh, actually I think the S6 premiere where Kate's reaction is "I thought you were going to break up with me" and Castle was all "Hells no" was another one.  It's lack of subtly and one dimensional humor is a pretty big clue.

[Samantha84]

Here are the special features that will be included on the season 6 DVD.

[turnitwayup]

So it that unaired Castle and Beckett moment from s4 finale gonna be the extended Always end scene? The extras usually end up on youtube, but that Need to Know commentary as their characters does sounds amusing.

[McManda]

 

"Creator/Executive Producer Andrew W. Marlowe and Producer/Writer Teri Edda Miller reveal their favorite part of the show, the Castle and Beckett relationship, and debut an unaired Castle and Kate moment from the season 4 finale."

 

So ... the end of Always made it on this set of DVDs? That's such an odd decision. I wonder if it's because they realized it's something that people really do want to see. Otherwise why wouldn't they have released it with the S4 DVDs?

 

*sigh* Sometimes their choices confuse me. And if it's not the end of Always, people are going to flip their shit, so I hope they're prepared for that if they still don't care to release it to the general public.

 

But I like that Nathan and Seamus did a commentary together. And the character commentary sounds like it'll be a lot of fun. (I like Jon and Seamus's commentaries as themselves, though.)

 

And now we know why Mark Polish was following Stana around.

Edited June 6, 2014 by McManda

[Lee4U]

When this show started, I had hoped - given they had NF on board - it would be a bit like the Thin Man couple, Nick and Nora Charles (not the exact premise but the style of comedy and chemistry) - alas, Stana is just not up to the light comedy that NF excels at; when he makes cracks or is playful, she's the one rolling her eyes and being a dud - has been all along.  

 

It looks so lopsided and she has not improved as an actress, in my opinion - she's wooden and has a staccato, one note speaking style - too bad, it would have been fun, even if there was no romance, if they had matched NF with someone who had more going for them than their looks.

 

He looks bored to death most of the time - can't say I blame him.  The juvenile story lines and dialogue are cringeworthy - his talents are wasted.  And, I'm not suggesting I find him to that great a talent but just that he has certain things he does really well and when he does it here, it's like it's all just bouncing off a wall and falling flat.  

[retrograde]

So it that unaired Castle and Beckett moment from s4 finale gonna be the extended Always end scene?

 

 

Given the meltdown Tumblr is having over this press release, it better be, because a torrent of Twitter abuse will be headed MilMar's way if it doesn't materialize now (even though I don't think they get much say over what goes on the DVDs).

[FlickerToAFlame]

Hey guys, it's me from TWoP. Good to see you all.

That list of DVD features does look pretty great, despite Stana again not doing any commentaries. The Polish thing looks intriguing though.

I wonder who decided to include the Always scene (which would be just cruel at this point to be anything other than "the" scene. Imagine it's a longer fight scene in Beckett's apartment. The torches would be out). My guess is ABC saw the outrage (over the scene or any number of other MilMar f*ck ups over the past year) and decided not to make the show's bread and butter any more furious over its favorite show. Some good will from any of TPTB would be hugely welcome at this point.

ETA: is that DVD link 100% legit? I know there are people out there crazy enough to fake something that specific.

Edited June 7, 2014 by FlickerToAFlame

[retrograde]

Yeah, ABC released details for several of its upcoming DVDs today. You can see here how similar it is to all the other press releases, so it would be a hell of a forgery if that was the case.

[Cyranetta]

 

Samantha84: I found myself rolling my eyes and not falling for the bullshit. We'll see and I'll decide how excited I am.

 

Alll those kindergarten-ish "I know something you don't know" tweets for me are less intriguing than annoyinig like buzzing mosquitoes, and I'm sure it's due to lingering distaste from the finale.

[KaveDweller]

When this show started, I had hoped - given they had NF on board - it would be a bit like the Thin Man couple, Nick and Nora Charles (not the exact premise but the style of comedy and chemistry) - alas, Stana is just not up to the light comedy that NF excels at; when he makes cracks or is playful, she's the one rolling her eyes and being a dud - has been all along.  

 

Stana isn't rolling her eyes, Beckett is rolling her eyes.  She plays the straight one to Castle's funny one.  But when the writing is good, I think they do a fantastic job bouncing off each other.

 

I know it's an unpopular opinion, but I have yet to be impressed with any of Nathan's performances on this show.  He's not bad, but I've never seen him do anything that makes me think he's more talented than hundreds of other actors in LA.  That's not to say he's incapable, he doesn't really get much opportunity to do show his stuff.  Maybe I would see it if I watched his other work. I know mileage varies and all that, but I also am always surprised whenever people say they are unimpressed with Stana's acting, because I think she is the opposite of wooden.

 

Given the meltdown Tumblr is having over this press release, it better be, because a torrent of Twitter abuse will be headed MilMar's way if it doesn't materialize now (even though I don't think they get much say over what goes on the DVDs).

 

I can't think why they would release a scene from S4 on the S6 DVDs, unless it is to pacify fans who were complaining about missing it.  It would just be mean to advertise that, knowing what people will think, to have it be something else. (Although, I guess it could be kind of funny to people who like messing with fans).

 

 

In regards to asking if sometimes Marlowe and his team listen to fans reactions, I think that is true.  I'm sure some storylines have changed/altered due to fan reaction.  Alexis choosing to take her lumps and live on her own in her apartment because she didn't want her father paying for her mistakes with Pi (by having to break the lease) and then she and Kate having a short discussion is one example I think.  

 

Oh, actually I think the S6 premiere where Kate's reaction is "I thought you were going to break up with me" and Castle was all "Hells no" was another one.  It's lack of subtly and one dimensional humor is a pretty big clue.

 

I think they do listen to fans sometimes too.  Keyword being sometimes....

[metaphor]

And this is the Castle press release in particular. As far as I know, that site only prints legit press releases. 

 

That had really best be the Always closing Caskett scene that they're releasing.I'm guessing it's being done partly to assuage the enraged fanbase. 

[verdana]

So I take it we don't have to #respecttheprocess any more?

 

It has to be that deleted scene, finally we will get to see what Elysium talked about and said was amazingly hot. Can't wait tumblr will be in meltdown mode if it's anything like as good as she said. 

 

I'm sure it found it's way on to the S6 DVD because of how the finale was received so they put in something really good for fans to enjoy just before the premiere when everyone starts remembering how crap the finale was that preceded it.  Good distraction and smart move after their PR blunder in Austin when they seriously screwed up and they knew it. 

 

Although I do wonder if the release might not have other repercussions they don't bargain on because there's always a risk you rile fans up even more by showing something they've not seen Caskett do since (and probably never will again). The next question for me would be after viewing is why they pulled back and stopped showing them like this and we got occasional chaste kissing and interruptions bullshit instead? 

Edited June 7, 2014 by verdana

[TWP]

I'm sure it found it's way on to the S6 DVD because of how the finale was received so they put in something really good for fans to enjoy just before the premiere when everyone starts remembering how crap the finale was that preceded it.  Good distraction and smart move after their PR blunder in Austin when they seriously screwed up and they knew it. 

 

I suspect that the whole reason for the Austin "blunder" was to increase awareness of "the clip".  They wanted to pull the clip out when it was most needed for DVD sales and that time is apparently now.  Just speculating.

[axj73]

Hello all, axj73 from TWoP here. Shame they couldn't get Stana to do the commentary for In the Belly of the Beast. Especially as it was a big one for her character. I know we've said that Nathan is the one that's a bit ambivalent towards Castle but at least he does contribute to the commentaries. Even if he doesn't mention Stana at all during those commentaries! I guess Stana doesn't enjoy doing them although I thought she did OK on the earlier season commentaries that she contributed to. Aren't these commentaries recorded during the first three months of the year? It's not like they are recorded during the hiatus. Oh well to each their own as they say. 

[Gant]

Looking forward to all those commentaries... uploaded to Soundcloud or YT. No way I'll be paying for season 6 DVD.

Marlowe is probably going to be boring and mumbling as usual, but the ones with the boys should be fun. They even got Brolin to contribute, should be interesting to hear. No Stana commentary is odd, again.

 

alas, Stana is just not up to the light comedy that NF excels at; when he makes cracks or is playful, she's the one rolling her eyes and being a dud - has been all along.

I don’t think it's fair to question actor’s choices when it’s clear that they’re doing things necessary for staying  in character. That is, the fact of rolling her eyes and not being amused, generally, by Castle’s antics is obviously a basic thing for her character as a “straight man”, and I don’t see how it can be blamed on the actress. HOW she does that is another matter and is in the territory of YMMV.

 

I know it's an unpopular opinion, but I have yet to be impressed with any of Nathan's performances on this show.  He's not bad, but I've never seen him do anything that makes me think he's more talented than hundreds of other actors in LA. 

TBH, of all the dramatic moments on this show, those which stand out most, for me, tend to be Nathan’s. Starting with glimpses into more serious Castle in the first seasons, moments with Martha and Alexis and Damien Westlake in season 3, Always, and even Target/Hunt gave me more “acting” satisfaction than most of the dramatic Beckett episodes (I say “even” because this storyline was so over-the-top, as is usual with Castle “big” episodes, its only saving grace was acting, from all the main players). I also like Stana’s earlier dramatic moments, up till the end of season 3 – “interrogation” with Castle, stuff with Roys, Sucker Punch etc. After that she lost me.

I’m inclined to think it’s mostly the character and how they chose to change her into this solitary heroic figure with no “common people” faults and a cliché list of sufferings, but she acquired some unpleasant poseurish quality that I can’t shake off. And I think sometimes Stana’s acting choices don’t help. It’s like they’re playing it super straight, with no wink-wink to being aware of triteness of it all, which I think, they used to be aware of in the earlier seasons.  To me it feels like Nathan always adds this “down to earth” quality in his dramatic scenes, however unbelievable they might seem on the surface, and Stana does the opposite. Obviously this distinction, or preference of one to the other, is totally MMV. But “down to earth” always moves me more than “super”.

 

(STOP HERE! OT lengthy rant follows. I think it may reflect what I came to think of as a “head” talent and a “gut” talent, lol. Don’t laugh, but I have this system (nothing original of course) where I get most actors (and poets) split into these two neat groups, depending on whether I feel they operate mostly with their “head” or “gut” in their creative process. Whether their approaches are documented as one or the other or not, doesn’t really matter, lol, mostly it’s just the impression their work makes on me, what I feel is their driving force. Their IQ levels also don’t play any part, the “gut” one can be an intellectual of the highest caliber, but use a different organ to create, lol. While the other one can be not particularly bright, but achieves his creative goals through thinking, not feeling. Sometimes I may appreciate the talent of a “brainy one“ (like say, Brodsky) more than most of the “gut” people around them, or I feel that the “gut” way gets to be too much in someone and I’d prefer something more reserved and “unnatural”, but most of the time my empathy is on the side of “gut”, lol. Which brings me to the purpose of this rant – in my little system Nathan is the “gut” talent (a moment of silence for all the dead jokes) and Stana is the “head” talent (ew, another moment of silence). It also ties into what I heard about their working processes – Stana is all learning lines, studying the character and improving, Nathan is all – “eh, I dunno what to tell you, I just kinda do it” way. I see Nathan as a more natural, effortless and less disciplined one, capable of great stuff when he’s fired up or total disinterest when he’s not; and Stana as someone who had to really work on getting what Nathan gets without thinking, having to internalize and study, and constantly improve. I see potential dangers and advantages in both ways, and have to repeat, do not advocate any one as preferable, just the way I see it. My apologies. The End)

I also think Stana is underappreciated as a comedic actress. She is not as fluent and natural in this as Nathan, but she has her unique way, what she does (sometimes) I see as her own comedy style that she truly had to work on, and won  – “Nikky Heat” is the best example IMO. Though tbh, their latest quality level of comedic writing does nobody any favors, neither Nathan, nor Stana. Both thrive on more subtle comedy IMO, and yes, even slapstick style can (and used to) be more subtle, more character-driven on Castle than it is, mostly, now.

Edited June 7, 2014 by Gant