Book Moments That Anger Up The Blood

[Grrarrggh]

7 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Uh…when did Hagrid do that?

Yeah, GOF was not Ron’s finest moment, but knowing his insecurities about being Harry Potter’s poor best friend, it was unfortunately believable. 

He attacked Dudley because of his Vernon's words. Ron turning on Harry made absolutely no sense character or plot-wise. Rowling's biggest failing as an author is that she writes scenes not characters. Just like the ridiculous 7 Harrys in DH. 

[Spartan Girl]

41 minutes ago, Grrarrggh said:

He attacked Dudley because of his Vernon's words

Oh, trying to turn him into a pig. Since Dudley wasn’t actually physically harmed, other than having to get surgery to remove the pig tail, I don’t really hold that against Hagrid. I mean, both Vernon and Dudley kind of deserved it. But that’s JMO.

[Grrarrggh]

37 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Oh, trying to turn him into a pig. Since Dudley wasn’t actually physically harmed, other than having to get surgery to remove the pig tail, I don’t really hold that against Hagrid. I mean, both Vernon and Dudley kind of deserved it. But that’s JMO.

Dudley was most definitely harmed, so was Harry. And Hagrid had no idea if Dudley deserved anything good or bad. He attacked a young child because of something that child's father said. In my world that is sick and he deserved prison time for it. 

[JustHereForFood]

20 hours ago, Grrarrggh said:

Dudley was most definitely harmed, so was Harry. And Hagrid had no idea if Dudley deserved anything good or bad. He attacked a young child because of something that child's father said. In my world that is sick and he deserved prison time for it. 

Yeah, that was horrible now that I look at it as an adult. When I was a kid, I probably thought it was funny, because children have a warped sense of morality sometimes. There's a lot of moments from children's literature when things look just sick when you look at them as an adult and take everything literally. 

But in general, the attitude of wizards towards muggles was just horrible and I don't mean just villains but almost every wizard. The obliviate spell alone is a huge violation of human rights.

I like to think that with how our technology advanced in just last 2 decades, in that world wizards would either need to adapt and start using some of it, or they would soon lose to muggles. In the current world with cameras everywhere, the masquerade would not last long.

[hiisa]

This is a thing about Mr and Mrs. Weasley that has really ticked me off when I think about it. They know how much a wizard needs a wand. The wand picks the wizard, it's a very personal thing. But instead of buying their son a wand they buy Percy an unnecessary present for getting Head Boy. Yeah, Head Boy is a big deal but it lasts a year. Ron needed a wand that was going to last him the rest of his life!  And it's not like he came out of nowhere! His parents know he exists! They should have bought that boy a wand and used whatever money was left over to celebrate Percy. Every time I try to reread HP (which honestly, hasn't been often since JK has been revealed to be such a problem) I really can't get past that. I just get so mad on Ron's behalf!

[Ohiopirate02]

11 hours ago, hiisa said:

This is a thing about Mr and Mrs. Weasley that has really ticked me off when I think about it. They know how much a wizard needs a wand. The wand picks the wizard, it's a very personal thing. But instead of buying their son a wand they buy Percy an unnecessary present for getting Head Boy. Yeah, Head Boy is a big deal but it lasts a year. Ron needed a wand that was going to last him the rest of his life!  And it's not like he came out of nowhere! His parents know he exists! They should have bought that boy a wand and used whatever money was left over to celebrate Percy. Every time I try to reread HP (which honestly, hasn't been often since JK has been revealed to be such a problem) I really can't get past that. I just get so mad on Ron's behalf!

Eh, Ron got a new wand the same year Percy was Head Boy, didn't he?  I know Ron's first wand was second-hand, and that was destroyed in book 2.  The third book begins with the Weasleys coming into some money and one of the first things they do is buy Ron a new wand before visiting Bill in Egypt and then Percy's reward for achieving Head Boy.  

Now, what I cannot remember and this may never have been mentioned in the books is whether Ginny used a hand-me-down wand like Ron in book 2 or if the Weasley's sprung for a new one for her.  I have a feeling the Weasleys had enough money for Ginny the same way they somehow were able to procure decent dress robes for Fred, George and Ginny and Ron was left with robes that should have just been turned into rags.  Someone on here mentioned that Rowling writes scenes with zero thought about continuity, and I think this illustrates this.  Jo thought to make Ron the butt of the joke with hideous robes completely forgetting the Weasleys had 4 kids at Hogwarts at that time.   All of them should have been in less-than-fashionable robes instead of just one.  

[scarynikki12]

They gave rewards for being named Prefect (and probably Head Boy but it wasn’t explicitly stated) and that warranted a treat but everything else was implied to be handed down or secondhand. We don’t know for sure that Charlie’s wand was new when he had it, just that it was handed down to Ron. There were other wand sellers  who may not have charged as much as Ollivander so maybe the Weasleys went to them when money was tight. 

Going back to the Prefect treats money was still a concern as we saw Molly briefly show worry when Ron requested a new broom. She may have had the same reaction to Percy requesting his owl but made each treat work. Maybe they were able to set up payment plans with the sellers (every non-evil character seems to know and like Arthur so why not take advantage of that?) or maybe Percy’s owl was the least expensive option like Ron’s Cleansweep. Money does go pretty far in the Wizarding World which seemed to help poorer families like the Weasley. 

The dress robes are trickier as the point was for Ron to look silly and feed his insecurities and jealousy. We aren’t told when Fred and George are given theirs so it’s possible the secondhand store had some modern styles that year. Or that the silly ones were the only option in Ron’s size and the twins got lucky.

All of this was ultimately in service to feed Ron’s insecurities even if it caused confusion otherwise.

[Grrarrggh]

19 hours ago, hiisa said:

This is a thing about Mr and Mrs. Weasley that has really ticked me off when I think about it. They know how much a wizard needs a wand. The wand picks the wizard, it's a very personal thing. 

That's just bad planning on Rowling's part. Fans talk about how amazing she was at planning these books but there are sooooo many plot holes because she didn't plan. I also think she didn't think about who her main audience was meant to be, so she often errored on the side of immaturity instead of just splitting the series into a children's one and an YA-Adult one. I get it, she had no idea the books would become so bit. She might even have had no idea she'd be still writing about Harry past aged thirteen. But still, it's a big failing.

7 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Someone on here mentioned that Rowling writes scenes with zero thought about continuity, and I think this illustrates this.   

Exactly. She writes scenes not characters/storylines. She thought wouldn't it be funny if Ron had old, "girly" looking dress robes. And so he did, whether it makes sense or not.

[hiisa]

I'm glad y'all have ready answers! It's not just me! Although, sorry--I mixed up when Ron got his own wand and when Percy was appointed HB. I haven't read in awhile. These days when I want a Harry Potter fix I look online for fanfiction. 

ETA: I was just reading last year's conversation with Snape and I just want to add my two cents. 

1. I was OVER that man when he grabbed a library book out of the trios hands because they took it outside by the lake. Not a rule you TOOL.

2. I am 100% NOT on the side of the folk who forgave that jerk everything because of "always". He bullied children (Harry and Neville weren't the only ones he was a dick to!) because he had a crush on a girl in school. I'm sorry but what now? Yes, yes, double agent--what does being a dick to kids have to do with being a double agent? It would make more sense to be all sneery with professors wouldn't it? Kids are kids! And who in the entire world cares that he looked at Harry and saw Lily's eyes? My guy. She? Did. Not. Pick. YOU. How about you wash your hair, build a bridge and move on. 

Edited July 19, 2022 by hiisa

[JustHereForFood]

On 7/18/2022 at 11:21 PM, scarynikki12 said:

They gave rewards for being named Prefect (and probably Head Boy but it wasn’t explicitly stated) and that warranted a treat but everything else was implied to be handed down or secondhand. We don’t know for sure that Charlie’s wand was new when he had it, just that it was handed down to Ron. There were other wand sellers  who may not have charged as much as Ollivander so maybe the Weasleys went to them when money was tight. 

Unless Charlie's wand was also a hand-me-down and he could finally afford a new one, why would he get a new one once he finished school? Weren't wizards supposed to basically have just one, unless something happens to it?

On 7/19/2022 at 1:23 AM, Grrarrggh said:

That's just bad planning on Rowling's part. Fans talk about how amazing she was at planning these books but there are sooooo many plot holes because she didn't plan.

Yeah, like how old were Bill and Charlie supposed to be, originally? Everyone talks about Charlie's time on Quidditch team as if that was ages ago, but we later learn that he finished Hogwards the year before Ron started.

[scarynikki12]

On 7/23/2022 at 6:04 PM, JustHereForFood said:

Weren't wizards supposed to basically have just one, unless something happens to it?

Exactly. That’s why I wonder if Charlie’s wand was a hand me down for him as well. Molly’s brothers were killed during Vold War 1 so that wand may have belonged to one of them. That family connection could explain why it would work for Charlie and then Ron before book 2. Then Charlie got his meant-to-be wand after graduation.

[Spartan Girl]

If I may detract the topic to another book…

Tess of the D’Urbervilles was one long rage read. But the bit that pushed me over the edge was at the end, where Tess said she was glad she wouldn’t live to see Angel “despise her” for killing Alec.

I hate that line. There had been enough slut-shaming in that book to last a lifetime. And whatever Angel felt when he realized she really killed Alec, he knew damn well both he and Alec put her through hell and pushed her over the edge, so I’m pretty sure he was done judging her by that point. That’s why I prefer the 2008 adaptation for cutting that stupid awful line.

[GHScorpiosRule]

I don’t know why these books were going through my head as I read them during my “trashy novels” phase when I was a teen. Anyhoo, I re-read Jackie Collins’s Chances and Lucky over the weekend.

And this is what had me seeing red: at the end of Chances, Steven, after a couple of years “finally”🙄😒 understands why Carrie hid her past from him. Yet in Lucky, he’s taking her to every Freddy Lester (the one who raped her) to get her to identify him. Asshole. Why did Jackie do that? So there would be more filler stuff for Steven to be in this book? Tight-Assed ASSHOLE. I wish Carrie had hauled off and slapped his face off as she did when he was a teenager.

[Spartan Girl]

So I just read Never Coming Home by Kate Williams, a YA version of And Then There Were None, in which ten influencers with secrets are lured to an island, and…well, you know the rest.

The one character whose crime I found the most despicable? She accidentally poisoned her neighbor’s two year old son—I say “accidentally” because she was actually trying to poison their dog. And why? Because she was fed up with its barking keeping her up at night before she was supposed to retake her SAT. Her excuse was that she “wasn’t trying to kill it, only make it sick.”

FUCK YOU.

I don’t care how stressed out you are with school (believe me, I’ve been there) that’s no excuse to harm someone’s pet! And because you couldn’t just ask your neighbors to take the dog inside like any rational human being, a child died.

Yeah, I wasn’t too sad when that character got her comeuppance.

Edited August 4, 2022 by Spartan Girl

[Spartan Girl]

I know I’ve mentioned This Is Where I Leave You before, but I really hate how almost everyone in the book, including Judd’s own mother, is so dismissive about Judd’s justified anger at Jen for cheating on him with his boss and just expecting him to get over it for the sake of the baby. Yes, hanging on to anger is unhealthy and they should be able to at least co-parent, but she slept with his boss for a year in their marital bed. Not to mention he lost his job because there’s no way in hell you can keep working for someone who fucked your spouse. Judd was absolutely right to feel angry and depressed and humiliated, so it’s more than understandable that he wasn’t thrilled about having a baby with Jen. 

[Spartan Girl]

Do you guys remember in the first Princess Diaries book when Lilly decided to boycott a local deli owned by an Asian couple she deemed “racist” all because they gave a measly ten-cent discount to Asian customers? She didn’t just try to organize protests outside the store, she basically compared them to Nazi on her stupid public access show, accusing them of reverse racism.

It wasn’t even the worst thing Lilly did in the whole series, but yikes, that particular stunt has NOT aged well.

[Bookworm 1979]

18 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Do you guys remember in the first Princess Diaries book when Lilly decided to boycott a local deli owned by an Asian couple she deemed “racist” all because they gave a measly ten-cent discount to Asian customers? She didn’t just try to organize protests outside the store, she basically compared them to Nazi on her stupid public access show, accusing them of reverse racism.

It wasn’t even the worst thing Lilly did in the whole series, but yikes, that particular stunt has NOT aged well.

Lilly was a horrible friend, and she didn't get any better as the series continued. I always wondered why Mia didn't dump her, she had other friends.

Lilly in the movies was way better. 

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, Bookworm 1979 said:

Lilly was a horrible friend, and she didn't get any better as the series continued. I always wondered why Mia didn't dump her, she had other friends.

Lilly in the movies was way better. 

In fairness, Lilly was slightly better in the most recent books (Royal Wedding and Quarantine Princess Diaries) but I digress.

Anyway, her inflated ego also grated on me. She acted like the aforementioned stupid protest took a great blow against racism when the truth was it fell flat because none of the other students wanted to boycott the deli. And she also had the nerve to gaslight Mia that she had always been supportive of her being a princess, completely ignoring the fact thatwhen the story broke out, she ignorantly mouthed off about Mia’s father supposedly getting rich off his subjects and Mia spouting his “populist propaganda” without even bothering to research Genovia to back up her claims**. Not to mention how she made fun of Mia’s new haircut.

**As Michael pointed out, Genovians don’t even have to pay taxes.

[Bookworm 1979]

8 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

In fairness, Lilly was slightly better in the most recent books (Royal Wedding and Quarantine Princess Diaries) but I digress.

I haven't read those ones, I gave up on the series a few years ago.  Are they any good?

[Spartan Girl]

7 hours ago, Bookworm 1979 said:

I haven't read those ones, I gave up on the series a few years ago.  Are they any good?

They’re really good.

[andromeda331]

On 4/3/2023 at 12:42 PM, Spartan Girl said:

In fairness, Lilly was slightly better in the most recent books (Royal Wedding and Quarantine Princess Diaries) but I digress.

Anyway, her inflated ego also grated on me. She acted like the aforementioned stupid protest took a great blow against racism when the truth was it fell flat because none of the other students wanted to boycott the deli. And she also had the nerve to gaslight Mia that she had always been supportive of her being a princess, completely ignoring the fact thatwhen the story broke out, she ignorantly mouthed off about Mia’s father supposedly getting rich off his subjects and Mia spouting his “populist propaganda” without even bothering to research Genovia to back up her claims**. Not to mention how she made fun of Mia’s new haircut.

**As Michael pointed out, Genovians don’t even have to pay taxes.

God yes! Lilly was so horrible. I really wish Mia had told her off.

[Spartan Girl]

Tales of A Fourth Grade Nothing by Judy Blume: Fudge eats Peter’s pet turtle Dribble and their parents rush him to the hospital, leaving Peter in the care of his grandma. Later, when they find out Fudge successfully had his stomach pumped and is fine, Peter understandably wants to find out if his beloved pet is still alive, and his grandma yells at him. 

Even back when I was a kid, that part made me so mad. Your grandson’s pet turtle is dead, and you couldn’t even try to break the news to him gently, lady? You just immediately yell at him for asking such a stupid question? Geez!!!

Fine, their main concern is Fudge, but he didn’t just swallow a random object, he swallowed a pet and basically killed it! Even  though he was just a toddler and didn’t know any better, that doesn’t change the fact that Peter loved Dribble and deserved more sympathy that his stupid grandmother gave him. She should have at least apologized for it later, and I’m pretty sure she didn’t.

Edited April 23, 2023 by Spartan Girl

[Dr.OO7]

On 4/23/2023 at 7:55 AM, Spartan Girl said:

Tales of A Fourth Grade Nothing by Judy Blume: Fudge eats Peter’s pet turtle Dribble and their parents rush him to the hospital, leaving Peter in the care of his grandma. Later, when they find out Fudge successfully had his stomach pumped and is fine, Peter understandably wants to find out if his beloved pet is still alive, and his grandma yells at him. 

Even back when I was a kid, that part made me so mad. Your grandson’s pet turtle is dead, and you couldn’t even try to break the news to him gently, lady? You just immediately yell at him for asking such a stupid question? Geez!!!

Fine, their main concern is Fudge, but he didn’t just swallow a random object, he swallowed a pet and basically killed it! Even  though he was just a toddler and didn’t know any better, that doesn’t change the fact that Peter loved Dribble and deserved more sympathy that his stupid grandmother gave him. She should have at least apologized for it later, and I’m pretty sure she didn’t.

I HATED that little brat Fudge. And I hated the way their stupid mother indulged him to Peter's detriment. It's not the first time she'd let him into Peter's room and he damaged something--he scribbled on a poster he had done for a school project--and she did it again.

[Spartan Girl]

On 5/10/2023 at 4:44 PM, Dr.OO7 said:

I HATED that little brat Fudge. And I hated the way their stupid mother indulged him to Peter's detriment. It's not the first time she'd let him into Peter's room and he damaged something--he scribbled on a poster he had done for a school project--and she did it again.

Fudge was a brat, but he was only 3 or 4. The fault lies with the parents, especially the mother, for coddling and indulging him.

[Spartan Girl]

The novel version of Mystic River had Celeste crash Jimmy’s daughter’s funeral towards the end at scream at him for killing Dave. I’m sorry, but I could not be on her side when she’s the one that thought it would be a good idea to tell the grieving ex-con with a body count that she thought her husband killed his daughter, only to later find out he was innocent. What the hell did she think was going to happen?

[sugarbaker design]

3 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

I’m sorry, but I could not be on her side when she’s the one that thought it would be a good idea to tell the grieving ex-con with a body count that she thought her husband killed his daughter, only to later find out he was innocent.

Not a good wife.

Didn't Jimmy's wife say something like "What kind of wife rats on her husband?"

Edited June 20, 2023 by sugarbaker design

[Spartan Girl]

On 6/20/2023 at 3:16 PM, sugarbaker design said:

Not a good wife.

Didn't Jimmy's wife say something like "What kind of wife rats on her husband?"

Yup, add she added “how fucking gutless do you have to be to tell tales like that. And why did she go to you first?”

In fairness, the novel added a scene where Celeste does realize that it was a tremendously stupid move on her part, that Dave deserved some benefit of the doubt and that she should’ve gone to the police, and tried to call Jimmy to stop him from doing anything, but of course it was too little too late.

Her crashing the wake just came off as playing the victim. Yes, Jimmy was the murderer, but what did she think would happen when she told him she thought Dave killed his daughter? Never trust a scorpion, it’s always gonna sting you.

Edited June 21, 2023 by Spartan Girl

[Spartan Girl]

House of Sand and Fog: Any pity I had for Kathy went up in flames when she went along with Lester’s deranged plan to hold the Behranis hostage to force the colonel to sell back her house at a cheap-ass price (instead of what it was really worth). She doesn't try to stop Lester or tell him its wrong, even after they saved her life and stopped her from killing herself; she’s just happy she’s finally going to get her house back and only feels a little guilty about what they’re doing. Just like she only feels a little guilty about Lester dumping his wife and kids for her. Or refuses to take responsibility for the fact that her not answering all the county letters was the reason why she lost the damn house (even if it was a county fuck-up).

Now I don’t condone violence against women, but I really don’t blame the colonel for trying to kill her after his son died because of her and Lester. 

 

Edited September 27, 2023 by Spartan Girl

[Spartan Girl]

Carrie: Norma’s** testimony in the White Commission where she tries to minimize the fact that everyone really did laugh at Carrie getting pig blood poured on her by saying it was only out of “shock” and it was so horrible that you could only laugh or cry, and “who could bring themselves to cry for Carrie after all those years?” 

Really?!

And this after Norma described Carrie’s blossoming at the prom as someone “rejoining the human race.” But evidently it still wasn’t enough for Carrie to even get any crumbs of sympathy when she was so cruelly humiliated. One of the assholes even tripped her when she ran crying out of the gym.

**Unlike her movie counterpart, Book Norma wasn’t Chris’s stooge and survives the massacre, but as you can see, she still wasn’t all that nice to Carrie either.

Edited October 21 by Spartan Girl

[Wiendish Fitch]

10 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Carrie: Norma’s** testimony in the White Commission where she tries to minimize the fact that everyone really did laugh at Carrie getting pig blood poured on her by saying it was only out of “shock” and it was so horrible that you could only laugh or cry, and “who could bring themselves to cry for Carrie after all those years?” 

Really?!

And this after Norma described Carrie’s blossoming at the prom as someone “rejoining the human race.” But evidently it still wasn’t enough for Carrie to even get any crumbs of sympathy when she was so cruelly humiliated. One of the assholes even tripped her when she ran crying out of the gym.

**Unlike her movie counterpart, Book Norma wasn’t Chris’s stooge and survives the massacre, but as you can see, she still wasn’t all that nice to Carrie either.

Gross. Yes, I get that some people do have nervous smirks/giggles in stressful situations, but that many people at once? And genuine, uproarious laughter at something so awful? My god, I officially no longer care that Book Carrie burned the gym down! Have at it, sweetie!

[tearknee]

Carrie is the best book - although a gender flipped version wouldn't be a classic or a best-seller, even now. Columbine and more....

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

Gross. Yes, I get that some people do have nervous smirks/giggles in stressful situations, but that many people at once? And genuine, uproarious laughter at something so awful? My god, I officially no longer care that Book Carrie burned the gym down! Have at it, sweetie!

In fairness, Book Carrie originally just wanted to turn on the sprinklers and ruin all their prom outfits. Go for it, I say. Unfortunately she didn’t take the electric equipment into consideration and…

What made the book version even more awful was that there was no rigging of the prom court vote: Tommy and Carrie legitimately won. Chris figured they were the contenders but she was ready to dump the bucket over whoever was on that stage. All because she was banned from the attending because of her own actions. So for want of a single vote, the prom massacre might never have happened.

But rather than put the blame where it belongs, the one takeaway that the town gets from the whole tragedy is that people with telekinesis should be feared and ostracized. Yeah, that’ll prevent it from happening again 🙄

[tearknee]

The twins' deaths in the 2013 version are still my favorite Carrie kill.

(Apart from Tina tortured and then set on fire from the same film)

Plus, it's more satisfying to me that 2013 Carrie is fully in control and kicking butt.

(Taylor Wedell being able to do these things to the Plastics ("This is Susan from Planned Parenthood"...) is a good crossover plot bunny).

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, tearknee said:

Plus, it's more satisfying to me that 2013 Carrie is fully in control and kicking butt.

Yes, if the 2013 remake deserves credit for anything, it’s restoring the agency that Book Carrie had over her actions. Of course the 1976 leaves it ambiguous regarding whether Carrie was 100 aware of what she was doing. Some complain that the version watered down how angry she was, that she fantasized about getting revenge before she discovered her powers, but movies are harder to convey one’s inner thought. One can interpret that that Movie Carrie had plenty of repressed anger: that death glare she throws at the stupid kid on a bike was pretty telling.

[MadyGirl1987]

On 10/21/2024 at 1:53 PM, tearknee said:

Carrie is the best book - although a gender flipped version wouldn't be a classic or a best-seller, even now. Columbine and more....

I don't know. It would have to be done right, but I think having a underdog of either gender fighting back/mentally cracking and taking revenge could be a compelling story. I think the key would be portraying them as being so mistreated they either felt forced to fight back, consciously or unconsciously, and making it clear the horror is that this person was led to it but their mistreatment and not making it a "rah rah get revenge" story.

Edited October 30 by MadyGirl1987

[tearknee]

7 hours ago, MadyGirl1987 said:

I don't know. It would have to be done right, but I think having a underdog of either gender fighting back/mentally cracking and taking revenge could be a compelling story. I think the key would be portraying them as being so mistreated they either felt forced to fight back, consciously or unconsciously, and making it clear the horror is that this person was led to it but their mistreatment and not making it a "rah rah get revenge" story.

My broader point was that there's a reason that Carrie or Rhoda Penmark and Leena Klammer have made more of an impact long term in pop culture and popular memory than Damien Thorn did.

[proserpina65]

11 hours ago, tearknee said:

My broader point was that there's a reason that Carrie or Rhoda Penmark and Leena Klammer have made more of an impact long term in pop culture and popular memory than Damien Thorn did.

Damien Thorn wasn't driven to revenge by mistreatment.  He literally was evil.  (Unless I misunderstood your point, in which case, never mind.)

[tearknee]

1 hour ago, proserpina65 said:

Damien Thorn wasn't driven to revenge by mistreatment.  He literally was evil.  (Unless I misunderstood your point, in which case, never mind.)

my point is that evil girls still make more of an impact to the audience which is why I feel that a gender flipped Carrie wouldn't work as well. Especially post-Columbine etc.

[proserpina65]

19 hours ago, tearknee said:

my point is that evil girls still make more of an impact to the audience which is why I feel that a gender flipped Carrie wouldn't work as well. Especially post-Columbine etc.

Ah, okay, that makes sense.  I completely missed your point at first.  Thanks for the clarification.

[tearknee]

On 11/2/2024 at 2:10 AM, proserpina65 said:

Ah, okay, that makes sense.  I completely missed your point at first.  Thanks for the clarification.

That's ok.

 

[Spartan Girl]

From Joyce Maynard’s Count the Ways: Eleanor blaming Cam for their son Toby getting brain damaged after a near drowning accident, then after months of her bitter and vindictive behavior, she is shocked—shocked!—when Cam leaves her for another woman. I feel like Maynard deliberately made the other woman the family’s college-age babysitter so that readers would still sympathize with Eleanor, but it didn’t work for me, despite how obviously problematic that was. And even after the divorce, Eleanor still feels entitled to play the victim over the whole thing, never considering how it will affect their children who are already having a tough time coping with the divorce.

Still, she doesn’t tell them about the affair…until years later, she lets that secret slip out right after her daughter Ursula has her first child. Which: woooooow. There was no good time to drop that bomb, but really?! Any time would have been bad, but three days after she’s just giving birth, when she’s at her most vulnerable?! And we’re somehow supposed to side with Eleanor when Ursula snaps and tells Eleanor that she never wants to see her again?! Yeah, sorry, Eleanor, but you’ve got nobody to blame but yourself for that one.

Edited November 5 by Spartan Girl