Secret Programs and Real Life Spies

[Roseanna]

I has just seen the brilliant new movie "Ikitie" (The Eternal Way) that is based on the true story about over 10 000 Americans and Canadians (6 000 of them were Finns) who during the depression moved to Soviet Karelia to build Socialism while in the same time being Christians. Although their kolkhozes prospered, about 2000 of those who didn't succeed to leave in time were executed as "spies" and "saboteurs" during Stalin's great terror in 1937-8. (In numbers, among the minoririty nationaliesit the Poles suffered most of the great terror, but relatively, of the ten Finns who were imprisoned nine were executed - perhaps over 20 000.) 

The protagonist of "Ikitie", however, is Jussi Ketola (Tommi Korpela) who has worked in the US but returned to Finland and become a farmer. Although he is no Communist, he is forced to the Soviet Union by the Fascist gang. What this convinced Pacifist who refused to take arms in the Finnish Civil War is ready to do in order to return his family?

If you have seen the Danish serie "Borgen" about the Female prime minister, its protagonist Sidse Babett Knudsen, is now Jussi Ketola's American common-law wife in "Ikitie". 

Sadly, the Russians weren't interested in the movie, so it was made in Estonia where there are Soviet buildings.  

Edited September 15, 2017 by Roseanna

[Umbelina]

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/09/18/551792129/stanislav-petrov-the-man-who-saved-the-world-dies-at-77?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=20170918

 

Stanislav Petrov, 'The Man Who Saved The World,' Dies At 77

Stanislav Petrov, a former Soviet military officer, poses at his home in 2015 near Moscow. In 1983, he was on duty when the Soviet Union's early warning satellite indicated the U.S. had fired nuclear weapons at his country. He suspected, correctly, it was a false alarm and did not immediately send the report up the chain of command. Petrov died at age 77.

[kokapetl]

On 16/09/2017 at 2:16 AM, Roseanna said:

 

I has just seen the brilliant new movie "Ikitie" (The Eternal Way) that is based on the true story about over 10 000 Americans and Canadians (6 000 of them were Finns) who during the depression moved to Soviet Karelia to build Socialism while in the same time being Christians. Although their kolkhozes prospered, about 2000 of those who didn't succeed to leave in time were executed as "spies" and "saboteurs" during Stalin's great terror in 1937-8. (In numbers, among the minoririty nationaliesit the Poles suffered most of the great terror, but relatively, of the ten Finns who were imprisoned nine were executed - perhaps over 20 000.) 

The protagonist of "Ikitie", however, is Jussi Ketola (Tommi Korpela) who has worked in the US but returned to Finland and become a farmer. Although he is no Communist, he is forced to the Soviet Union by the Fascist gang. What this convinced Pacifist who refused to take arms in the Finnish Civil War is ready to do in order to return his family?

If you have seen the Danish serie "Borgen" about the Female prime minister, its protagonist Sidse Babett Knudsen, is now Jussi Ketola's American common-law wife in "Ikitie". 

Sadly, the Russians weren't interested in the movie, so it was made in Estonia where there are Soviet buildings.  

Mother of Mine is a really good movie about Finnish war children. Heart tearing.

[Roseanna]

What you think about the recent news that Pablo Neruda didn't died of cancer but has been poisoned by a CIA agent?

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-41702706

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w172vj2fd8bflbd

[crgirl412]

On 10/24/2017 at 8:27 AM, Roseanna said:

What you think about the recent news that Pablo Neruda didn't died of cancer but has been poisoned by a CIA agent?

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-41702706

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w172vj2fd8bflbd

Was something about him in one of the episodes?  I don't recall. 

[Roseanna]

4 hours ago, crgirl412 said:

Was something about him in one of the episodes?  I don't recall. 

No, but there has been a new investigation. Isn't this thread about real spies?

[crgirl412]

7 hours ago, Roseanna said:

No, but there has been a new investigation. Isn't this thread about real spies?

It is.  I wasn't paying attention to what thread I was on.  Oooops!!! 

[Roseanna]

I have found a bit amusing how easy some here believe a defection to be. Therefore I tell a bit a Finnish movie "The interrogation" which is based on the story of Soviet desant and spy, Kerttu Nuorteva:

http://bufo.fi/films/the-interrogation/

A young woman has left her bag in the laudry for keeping. When she goes to the laundry to pick up the bag, she is arrested because the curious staff has opened her bag and found a radio transceiver and receiver.

In the supervisionary department of the army’s headquarters the woman tells that that her name is Elina Hämäläinen and she works at a beauty salon in Helsinki. She has an identity document, a birth certificate, and a shopping bargain.

The first interrogator, Otto Kumenius, takes on the role of "the bad cop". She demands the woman to confess and intimidate her with the death sentence. It is a punishment for espionage.

The second interrogator Toivo Suominen appears in the role of "good cop". He offers a cigarette and speaks casually.  

First, the woman is proven to be a spy: her papers are proven to be counterfeit and a radio transceiver and receiver are Russian, although the parts are made in the USA (evidently lend-lease help).

On the basis of the ordinary police methods the woman's identity and life stages are discovered. Her photo is identified in Petrozavodsk which the Finns conquered in 1941 and named Äänislinna. Her name is Kerttu Nuortva. She was born in the USA because his Socialist father was deporteed from Finland by the Czar’s government. She moved in the 20ies to the Soviet Karelia. She was been three years in the camp.

The woman admits that she is Kerttu Nuorteva but refuses to tell anything more ”even if you torture me”.

After three interrofgations, Suominen tells his supervisor Paavo Kastari that Kerttu Nuorteva has decided not to speak. According to Suominen, the case can be brought to Military Court, the death sentence is certain on the basis of evidence.

In Suominen's view, the alternatives are that Kerttu Nuorteva dies for the sake of the idea or she dies as a traitor. Suominen would like to give her the opportunity to die by retaining the honor.

Kastari has a different view: interrogations must be continued because it’s needed to get information on the Soviet spying methods. As Suominen appears to be softened, Kastari will become an interviewer himself.

The tactics of Paavo Kastari's is to appeal on Kerttu Nuorteva’s Finnish roots. On the basis for discussion he brings her such books as ”The defence of Finnish democracy”.

They begin to chat, but she keeps her Soviet ideals. However, she asks to read poems of Finnish classics which she has learned to love in her childhood home.

Kastari even tries to get close, human relationship with her by offering a dinner in candlelight.

He offers Nuorteva an opportunity to leave Finland to Sweden or Australia. He recalls that her the victory of the Soviet Union in war does not save her as surrending alive is regarded as treason by the Soviet Union.

Nuorteva says that she has suffered NKVD interrogation and torture. She still does not bend.

In spite of the hostility caused by war, both Suominen and Kastari admire Nuortava’s loyalty to her convictions. At the same time they regard her as a victim, a "poor girl" who has been exploited by her superiors who sent her as a desant (almost all were captured and executed by the Finns).

Kastari has one last resort: he brings Arvo Tuominen, the former secretary-general of the Finnish Communist Party who defected during the Winter War (he could do it because he happened to be in Sweden) to meet Nuorteva.

To the Soviet citizen like Nuorteva Tuominen is the traitor of the worst kind. But he immediately takes on the difficult issues. He tells that before the Winter War he was offered the seat of the Prime Minister of the Soviet puppet government, but he did not accept it.

Tuominen reveals to the Nuorteva what happened to the thousands of Finnish Communists in the Soviet Union: they are either in the camp or have been executed. He speaks the truth, but he has the same goal as Suominen and Kastari: to get the Nuorteva to confess.

Initially, Nuorteva claims that she is a Soviet soldier and she has a duty to the party and the country and that she has given his word. Tuominen strikes back by asking how the Soviet Union has treated she: she has been sentenced to the camp and sent as a desant to the sure death.

Eventually, Nuorteva agrees with Tuominen and her interrogators that she had made a mistake by relying on Communism and the Soviet Union and going as a desant to Finland.

She agrees to make a full confession.

But the movie doesn’t end here. Nuorteva’s psyche breaks down in the cell and she is brought into a mental hospital. There she tells wild things f.ex. about Mannerheim's assassination. She is treated with methods of the time, f.ex. with electric shocks.

Despite her confession, Nuorteva receives a death sentence.

After that Kastari comes to the prison to meet Nuorteva and says that it’s still possible that she will be pardoned. But she is bitter and angry and feels that she made a mistake by relying on Kastari’s promises.

She has again begun to believe in the Soviet Union and appears to be defamatory: "You will lose the war." Kastari responds: "You won the war. Perhaps you will lose the peace. "

After the Continuation War ends, Nuorteva walks out of the prison gate. The viewer is told that after returning to the Soviet Union, she gets a ten-year sentence.

[Umbelina]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/retropolis/wp/2017/10/27/strippers-surveillance-and-assassination-plots-the-jfk-files-wildest-documents/?utm_term=.450ed472c3bd

 

There will be much more of course, but so much spy stuff in here (what were/are the CIA/FBI/KGB and other spies really capable of doing) that it seems like it should be here!  Wowsa.

[kokapetl]

40 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/retropolis/wp/2017/10/27/strippers-surveillance-and-assassination-plots-the-jfk-files-wildest-documents/?utm_term=.450ed472c3bd

 

There will be much more of course, but so much spy stuff in here (what were/are the CIA/FBI/KGB and other spies really capable of doing) that it seems like it should be here!  Wowsa.

https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32105754.pdf

Documented evidence of plans to undertake agricultural sabotage in Cuba!

[White Sheep]

Stalin & the Soviet people:  

 

https://imgur.com/gallery/L7MAR

[White Sheep]

Info on Directive S (illegals):

 

https://espionagehistoryarchive.com/2015/05/15/inside-kgb-directorate-s-the-illegals/

[kokapetl]

9 hours ago, White Sheep said:

Info on Directive S (illegals):

 

https://espionagehistoryarchive.com/2015/05/15/inside-kgb-directorate-s-the-illegals/

Select Excerpts: 

We search for candidates and find them ourselves, selecting through hundreds and hundreds of people. The work is indeed one-of-a-kind. In order to become an illegal, a person should possess many qualities. Bravery, focus, a strong will, the ability to quickly forecast various situations, hardiness to stress, excellent abilities for mastering foreign languages, good adaptation to completely new conditions of life, and knowledge of one or several professions that provide and opportunity to make a living. Enumeration of personal qualities necessary for an illegal intelligence officer could be continued into perpetuity.

Even if a person who has the attendant training and the enumerated characteristics to one or another degree, this in know way means that he’ll make an illegal officer. Some certain traits of nature are also needed, ones that are elusive and hard to transmit into words, a special artistry, an ease of transformation, and even a certain well-controlled inclination to adventure, some kind of reasoned adventurism.

The labor of an illegal intelligence officer is incomparable with the work of an officer in a regular residency. However tense the day of an intelligence officer working, say, under the cover of an embassy might be, in the evening he nonetheless returns to his family and forgets the day’s worries. An illegal has no native “cover,” no place where he can relax and forget himself, and often there’s no family nearby. He is, as the expression has become fashionable, socially unprotected, and unprotected in general. All of his salvation is in his head and in the precise work of the Center.

Over the time of his training, an illegal acquires much: wide-ranging knowledge, in particular on political and economic matters, a few professions, foreign languages. But he also sacrifices much. In these conditions it’s difficult to arrange family affairs. A wife, children, and parents are the crown of endless complications. And one rarely manages to resolve everything more or less satisfactorily.

There’s still another moment. An illegal is trained for work cellularly by a narrow circle of instructors and trainers. Limited communications are a negative moment. We always tired to compensate the loss of contact of young illegals from remaining officers with the creation of a friendly microclimate where people would be psychologically compatible, as in a space crew on a long flight. And we succeeded in creating a friendly, family atmosphere around our illegals.

Heading up illegal intelligence, Kirpichenko often had to see off young spousal pairs to their missions and regularly meet with mature officers and veterans who became educators to their young colleagues. Most of all the worries came with the rookies. Problems of their training, their family affairs, their documentation as foreigners, and employment abroad. Sometimes he had to act in the unusual role of either a priest or director of registry to sanction a marriage.

Young illegals being sent on their missions reminded him of people who, having just learned how to swim, are immediately sent far out to sea. Additionally, it was never known whether they’d have the strength to overcome the long distance. And all those who worked with the young illegal or married pair at the Center could not escape their anxiety and alarm until the illegals sent the signal that they reached their destination and that everything was fine.

“For me the years working in illegal intelligence were a time of the highest moral-psychological tension, when it seemed that your nervous system was on the brink of the impossible,” admitted Vadim Alekseevich to me one time. “Neither before nor after have I experienced such stresses.”

Edited November 9, 2017 by Kokapetl

[Umbelina]

That was really interesting, thanks for posting it.

Some more from a related article.

https://espionagehistoryarchive.com/2016/06/03/kgb-directorate-s-training-an-illegal/

Quote

Abroad it followed to first find a suitable basis for a legend. One of the possible solutions was to find the grave, of a child, we’ll say, who died in infancy. Then the future illegal would receive the name that was on the child’s gravestone, and along with it a concrete date and place of birth. Then we needed to ensure the disappearance of the infant’s name from the registry of the departed in the corresponding church book. The best option was when the child was born in one place but died in another. In such a way several church books with records on the given person would turn up, and their comparison was practically impossible. If a Western counterintelligence service suddenly wanted to check concrete information about the suspect, then by all means, it was noted that such-and-such was indeed born in the given place. Who would search for whether this person randomly died in a completely different place and in a different state of the country?

Erasing the corresponding record in a church book was usually just a question of the sum required. Of course, with that we conducted business with the most simple and understandable motivation. Every move was based on one or another well-thought-out legend: in one case the matter concerned an inheritance and big money, while in another something most suitable would be thought up at the given moment. Here fantasy played the role, and technique acted it out. But primarily, a legend had to be absolutely natural, and there would be no room left for romantic stratagems.

Hmmm

Quote

Work with each selected candidate was purely individual. It was best of all to begin training before the person would turn 30. Then, after training and resettlement to a different country, the intelligence officer could still work for a long period. But on the other hand, it was impermissible to begin training too early: a twenty-year-old person would still be too young for us to choose him. To determine whether he’d be suitable to the forthcoming work or not could only be done around 30 to 40 percent of the time.

This is also interesting, if only because he was imprisoned during the same time period as the show, and the Soviets eventually got him out.  He was spying in South Africa, but it's an interesting read. 

https://espionagehistoryarchive.com/2016/01/15/kgb-illegal-intelligence-in-south-africa/

Sorry if this one was posted before.

https://espionagehistoryarchive.com/2015/12/31/the-real-americans-kgb-directorate-s/
 

Quote

 

The Real “Americans”

December 31, 2015 Mark Hackard Leave a comment

On radio program Esoteric Hollywood, Jay Dyer and I discuss spy films and how they relate to real-world espionage in the ongoing Great Game. From depictions of KGB Directorate S in the current hit show The Americans to the shadowy backers of 1989’s silly propaganda bomb Red Scorpion, we delve into the lesser-known aspects of spy culture that reflect the realities of intelligence history.

 

 

It's a mix, and doesn't really get started until after the six minute mark, actually it's rambling all over the place, but I can't seem to delete it.  sorry.  At about 29 minutes they begin to discuss The Americans.

Edited November 9, 2017 by Umbelina

[kokapetl]

I guess it would be feasible for Illegal selection and training to begin at 30, provided the illegal identities were German or Austrian or whatever. The Soviet Union was able to easily source German speakers from German speaking communities. Passable native English speaking Illegals would need ESL training from a young age. I wouldn’t think there was much of an English speaking community within the USSR or the Eastern Bloc. 

[Loandbehold]

In "Day of the Jackal" (1971) Fredrick Forsyth detailed the taking of baby or young child names from gravestones to set up a legend and get a passport. Good to know the Soviets followed his lead.

[Roseanna]

Double-agent George Blake was interviewed by The Guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/nov/11/george-blake-russian-spies-must-save-world-from-nuclear-hell

[White Sheep]

Not exactly KGB stuff. But private intelligence agencies.  That use KGB spying techniques.  

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5064027/Israeli-military-vet-duped-Rose-McGowan-revealed.html

[kokapetl]

7 hours ago, White Sheep said:

Not exactly KGB stuff. But private intelligence agencies.  That use KGB spying techniques.  

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5064027/Israeli-military-vet-duped-Rose-McGowan-revealed.html

That’s really fucking disturbing. 

[crgirl412]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5127221/How-MI5-uncovered-Russias-unlikeliest-London-spy-ring.html

 

This might be a story that the Daily Mail has run before but it's still interesting.  A real life Martha is shown!! 

[Umbelina]

This is kind of off topic a little bit, but it's driving me crazy.  This video of Norlisk popped up on my Facebook page.  I could swear that city was mentioned in The Americans.  Anyone remember?  (after the youtube commercial)

[crgirl412]

12 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

This is kind of off topic a little bit, but it's driving me crazy.  This video of Norlisk popped up on my Facebook page.  I could swear that city was mentioned in The Americans.  Anyone remember?  (after the youtube commercial)

I REALLY enjoyed learning about Norilsk!!  I love these kind of things!  I am not sure if it was mentioned on the show but thank you for posting it! 

[White Sheep]

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2017/12/fusion_gps_dossier_cabal_was_using_spy_tradecraft_to_evade_leaving_electronic_footprints_for_nsa_surveillance.html

 

http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2010/07/7887_khz_your_home_for_classic_cuban_espionage_radio.html

 

 

a movie coming in 2018

 

Edited December 15, 2017 by White Sheep

[White Sheep]

[crgirl412]

On 12/14/2017 at 2:50 PM, White Sheep said:

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2017/12/fusion_gps_dossier_cabal_was_using_spy_tradecraft_to_evade_leaving_electronic_footprints_for_nsa_surveillance.html

 

http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2010/07/7887_khz_your_home_for_classic_cuban_espionage_radio.html

 

 

a movie coming in 2018

 

Loved the article on the short-wave radios and it is very, very curious that Nellie Ohr became interested in them at that time!!  I want to get a one and listen to what spies are hearing even though I won't be able to decode them!

The other article was helpful in trying to understand all of that dossier and Fusion GPS stuff.  I'm still confused by it though....   

Elizabeth is a HUGE sparrow!!  I want to see it when it comes out!!! 

Thanks for posting!!! 

[crgirl412]

A modern day mole was caught!!  The rat was an ex-CIA officer!! 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/16/us/politics/cia-china-mole-arrest-jerry-chun-shing-lee.html

[crgirl412]

Former diplomat who became a Daily Telegraph reporter in the 1950s is unmasked as a top Soviet agent who admitted sending state secrets to Moscow

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5432557/Daily-Telegraph-reporter-unmasked-Soviet-agent.html

[Umbelina]

I received a book for my birthday, apparently in a series.  Anyway, It's called The Bronze Horseman and I've read the synopsis of the other 2 books on this blog, and elsewhere.  WARNING full of spoilers, which is why I found this one. There is a rather large book two spoiler I wanted to find, and she's the only one that addressed it.   https://rosiestakeon.wordpress.com/2017/02/14/the-bronze-horseman/ 

The interesting part was the book being set in the Soviet Union, and though it's a romance-style book, it's written by a Russian born American writer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paullina_Simons and, among other things, covers Leningrad as Germany declares war, and for a few years after that.  Soviet life is depicted before and after, and the NKVD is a prominent part of the book.

I have to say, I often thought of both Elizabeth and of her mother while reading this, and reading the synopsis of the other two books in the trilogy, which I probably will end up buying.  She really did a good job of portraying life in that system, as well as the deprivations, and realities of war for Soviets during WWII, as well as the fears and realities of being arrested under Stalin's regime.  (Hi Gabriel!)

Edited February 26, 2018 by Umbelina

[crgirl412]

24 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

I received a book for my birthday, apparently in a series.  Anyway, It's called The Bronze Horseman and I've read the synopsis of the other 2 books on this blog, and elsewhere.  WARNING full of spoilers, which is why I found this one. There is a rather large book two spoiler I wanted to find, and she's the only one that addressed it.   https://rosiestakeon.wordpress.com/2017/02/14/the-bronze-horseman/ 

The interesting part was the book being set in the Soviet Union, and though it's a romance-style book, it's written by a Russian born American writer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paullina_Simons and, among other things, covers Leningrad as Germany declares war, and for a few years after that.  Soviet life is depicted before and after, and the NKVD is a prominent part of the book.

I have to say, I often thought of both Elizabeth and of her mother while reading this, and reading the synopsis of the other two books in the trilogy, which I probably will end up buying.  She really did a good job of portraying life in that system, as well as the deprivations, and realities of war for Soviets during WWII, as well as the fears and realities of being arrested under Stalin's regime.  (Hi Gabriel!)

Happy Birthday!!!!  This sounds very interesting!! 

[kokapetl]

18 hours ago, crgirl412 said:

Former diplomat who became a Daily Telegraph reporter in the 1950s is unmasked as a top Soviet agent who admitted sending state secrets to Moscow

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5432557/Daily-Telegraph-reporter-unmasked-Soviet-agent.html

I wonder if the surplus of upper class landlords and the stratification of British society had anything to do with this. 

[SusanSunflower]

Some did it simply for the money but many did it because they believed in the communist experiment posed no real threat and that Soviet progress was being obstructed by Western powers ... The people around and including the Rosenbergs believed the world would be safer if the American monopoly on Nuclear Weapons was broken, that otherwise, U.S. power was utterly unchecked. 

Some really loathed the capitalist "consumer culture" that evolved after the war and their own government and many developed long term friendships with their handlers ... I got the feeling from LeCarre and others it was also an "ego boost" to be deceiving so many for so long. 

Edited February 26, 2018 by SusanSunflower
remembered more

[Umbelina]

Well, I'm further along in that book now, and holy crap, she certainly is very capable of describing starvation, disease, bodies piling up in the streets, people dropping as they try to walk through the incredible cold, lack of water, electricity, and supplies of any kind... and making what the Russian people went through during WWII horrifying and vivid.  AND I'm barely a year and a half into the war in the book.  So many millions dying, with ever reducing amounts of "sawdust" bread to eat...  Also, it's very interesting because she gets into the minds and ways of thinking of Soviet people, which is so very different from those of us in Western countries. 

It's much easier to understand Elizabeth's mother and Gabriel after reading that.  Elizabeth growing up in the aftermath, and hearing the stories?  Being collected for KGB work so young, and idealistic, and committed?  That is all making me like Elizabeth more as well.  Yes, she's brainwashed by patriotism, as so many young people are everywhere.  I think Philip sees through to truths more than his wife, but I'm understanding her a bit more now.

Book two will contain imprisonment stories, I didn't realize that the Soviets took over some German Concentration camps to use as prisons for their own people.  Even in book one there were sudden "disappearances" but I think book two will get into what happened to them after they were disappeared. 

I just ordered the last two books.

Edited February 27, 2018 by Umbelina

[Dowel Jones]

9 hours ago, Kokapetl said:

I wonder if the surplus of upper class landlords and the stratification of British society had anything to do with this.

I remember watching a minor movie several years, actually decades, ago, that took the premise that the culture in the early grade schools of England during that time may have created such a dislike for that class structure among some of the more disadvantaged students that they harbored sympathies for the communist cause simply out of revenge.  And thus acted on it by the time they reached university.  It wasn't a documentary, but rather a "what if" story.

[crgirl412]

10 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

I remember watching a minor movie several years, actually decades, ago, that took the premise that the culture in the early grade schools of England during that time may have created such a dislike for that class structure among some of the more disadvantaged students that they harbored sympathies for the communist cause simply out of revenge.  And thus acted on it by the time they reached university.  It wasn't a documentary, but rather a "what if" story.

That is very interesting!  I can see how that could happen.  I wonder if it really ever did. 

[Bannon]

10 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

I remember watching a minor movie several years, actually decades, ago, that took the premise that the culture in the early grade schools of England during that time may have created such a dislike for that class structure among some of the more disadvantaged students that they harbored sympathies for the communist cause simply out of revenge.  And thus acted on it by the time they reached university.  It wasn't a documentary, but rather a "what if" story.

One cannot overlook the effect of WWI's horrors, and The Great Depression, had on a certain kind of British traitor in the 30s, 40s, and even 50s, who worked in service to Stalin and his successors. It made them (Philby, Burgess, MacLean, etc.) blind to Stalin murdering tens of millions of innocent people. The capacity that intelligent, well educated people have for self deception is astonishing. 

In contrast, the post WWII American traitors who gave the KGB it's greatest intelligence successes tended to be pathetic, greedy, small, losers, who contacted the KGB unprompted, and sold out for a relative pittance. People like Robert Hanssen, Aldrich Ames, or John Walker just fell into the Soviets' laps.

Edited February 27, 2018 by Bannon

[White Sheep]

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/03/red-sparrow-used-to-be-an-actual-phenomenon-during-the-cold-war.html

[Umbelina]

[crgirl412]

1 hour ago, Umbelina said:

Oooooh!!!  That was good!!! 

I hope we see this happen to Elizabeth as it did with Oleg Kalugin:   "My knowledge of my own country under the Soviet system made me a different man."

[Umbelina]

Quote

 

British Prime Minister Theresa May says it is "highly likely" that Russia is behind the poisoning of a former Russian spy and his daughter earlier this month in southern England.

Former Russian spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia were found collapsed on a bench on March 4 in the city of Salisbury. They remain in critical condition, according to The Associated Press.

 

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/03/12/592892727/u-k-prime-minister-says-highly-likely-russia-responsible-for-ex-spy-poisoning?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=20180312

I still think a more realistic story is the Soviet Union taking down Philip, but now I doubt it will happen.  Still, even the daughter died in this real-life former spy.  I think they will have to have Stan involved though to wrap up what I suspect will be a canned ending.  I hope not, I hope we go back to the glory this show used to be, so who knows?  Maybe they will surprise me.

[Umbelina]

[All That Jazz]

On 3/12/2018 at 11:27 AM, Umbelina said:

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/03/12/592892727/u-k-prime-minister-says-highly-likely-russia-responsible-for-ex-spy-poisoning?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=20180312

I still think a more realistic story is the Soviet Union taking down Philip, but now I doubt it will happen.  Still, even the daughter died in this real-life former spy.  I think they will have to have Stan involved though to wrap up what I suspect will be a canned ending.  I hope not, I hope we go back to the glory this show used to be, so who knows?  Maybe they will surprise me.

I am concerned that the ending of the show may deteriorate into badly written fanfic. I hope they rise above that.

[Umbelina]

2 hours ago, All That Jazz said:

I am concerned that the ending of the show may deteriorate into badly written fanfic. I hope they rise above that.

I doubt they will, but keep hope alive.  Doing that after last season is somewhat problematic for me.

[crgirl412]

4 hours ago, All That Jazz said:

I am concerned that the ending of the show may deteriorate into badly written fanfic. I hope they rise above that.

fanfic= fantasy fiction??

[paulvdb]

You've never heard of fanfic? From Wikipedia:

Quote

Fan fiction or fanfiction (also abbreviated to fan fic, fanfic, fic or ff) is fiction about characters or settings from an original work of fiction, created by fans of that work rather than by its creator. It is a popular form of fan labor, particularly since the advent of the Internet.

[crgirl412]

11 hours ago, paulvdb said:

You've never heard of fanfic? From Wikipedia:

  I've never heard of it.  It sounds interesting.!!

According to Wikipedi,a "Fifty Shades of Grey was originally written as fan fiction for the Twilight series of books and movies and played off the characters of Bella and Edward. In order to not infringe on copyright issues, James changed the character names to Anna and Christian for the purposes of her novels." 

Is that true? 

[sistermagpie]

27 minutes ago, crgirl412 said:

Is that true? 

Yes. Apparently it was really popular in that fandom. It was an AU (alternate universe) so they weren't vampires etc. Then she filed off the serial numbers (iow, she changed the character names etc.).

Btw, there is some Americans fanfic but not that much--it's a hard show to write for. I've gotten a couple of stories for Yuletide (a fanfic exchange).

Edited March 16, 2018 by sistermagpie

[crgirl412]

1 hour ago, sistermagpie said:

Yes. Apparently it was really popular in that fandom. It was an AU (alternate universe) so they weren't vampires etc. Then she filed off the serial numbers (iow, she changed the character names etc.).

The things your learn on PreviouslyTV!!

[crgirl412]

Russian spies getting harder to track.

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/fewer-russian-spies-u-getting-harder-track-051947904--finance.html

[Umbelina]

Quote

 

In her eight years undercover, Ms Carleson (not her real name) ran agents in hostile countries, getting them to risk their lives to steal secrets for America. Targeting and recruiting such people offers lessons in what might be called “strategic networking”: gaining information about customers and competitors. How do you make contact without seeming pushy? What is the hook, and what are the incentives? It turns out that offering consultancy fees and lavish entertainment rarely works; appealing to the ego is far more effective.

While steering clear of real secrets, Ms Carleson gives an accurate account of how intelligence officers operate. Her “strategic elicitation exercise”, in which she pushes readers to get random information from a stranger, is particularly well described.

 

This might be an interesting book.  https://www.economist.com/news/books-and-arts/21571856-what-business-executives-can-learn-intelligence-officers-success-stealth?fsrc=scn/fb/te/bl/ed/successbystealth

Using CIA skills in business.

[hellmouse]

This article in this month's New Yorker magazine is fascinating. It's about an American who worked for the CIA (post-9/11) and is now a police officer in Savannah, GA. It gives good insight into CIA training, and I can imagine that Philip and Elizabeth must have gone through similar training as illegals. It would help explain some of their myriad skills. It also made it more plausible to me that they would want Paige to have field training, even if she ultimately was slated for a desk job. For example,

• "Students practice their recruitment skills at fake embassy parties. Each is assigned a target from the host country, and is tasked with carrying out conversations that play to the target’s interests and hobbies; by the end of the evening, students are expected to have elicited their assets’ contact details, which are used to begin a delicate, months-long process of recruitment. The next day, they receive feedback on their approach. They lose points for tells as minor as drinking beer from a bottle; diplomats typically use a glass."
• "Students are trained in tactical skills that they hope they’ll never need. During the driving course, known as “crash and burn,” they learn how to avoid obstacles at high speeds, how to behave at checkpoints, and how to smash through barricades. They practice navigation and hand-to-hand combat, and spend days hiding in the mud while being hunted by armed instructors. They are taught to jump out of airplanes and to handle explosives, foreign weapons, and the gadgetry of secret communications."

The man profiled (Patrick Skinner) is really interesting. It's a good read;  I recommend it.

The Spy Who Came Home

Edited May 2, 2018 by hellmouse
added quotes