Secret Programs and Real Life Spies

[Happywatcher]

My big issue is that the secrets the 'heroes' chase aren't accurate.

Have Blue was long over by the time of the show, Senior Prom and the 117 were the current projects.

Submarine props? The Japanese corporations long since had sold us out.

Crypto codes? The Walker family sold us out.

School of the Americas? Every other democatic congressman was lined up to blab to the unions or the Soviets directly.

Nuke unit and ship deployments? I had a mid level clearence then, Aviation Week & Space Technology and Jane's Weekly knew more than me, and every whore and mamasan in the pacific knew everything and would sell it for $20.

I like the drama and the characters (except when Keri feels the need to over-do the sexy time), but the secrets just aren't accurate enough.

I forgot. ARPANET. No way would they get anything off that, it was an unclassified university network.

There were three (?) Defense classified networks like the net back then, and they were run by the military and were pretty darn secure. I think there were three, offical use only, secret, and top secret level data.

You couldn't hack in the way Phillip did, nor easily at all, which is why the Soviets used people like the Walker family, Ames, and Hall to get the copies from people rather than systems.

Edited May 23, 2014 by Happyshooter

[crgirl412]

First ever look inside the CIA safe house where Russian spies came in from the cold after defecting.

 

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2644147/Inside-750K-CIA-safe-house-Russian-spies-came-cold-defecting-Bobby-Kennedy-guest.html#ixzz33Em4Otz0
 

[crgirl412]

89-Year-Old Tennis Pro Looks Back On Career, Undercover Work With CIA

 

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2014/06/03/89-year-old-tennis-pro-looks-back-on-career-undercover-work-with-cia/?hpt=us_bn7

[crgirl412]

New revelations about Cuban spy Ana Montes

 

http://www.miamiherald.com/2014/08/02/4267428/new-revelations-about-cuban-spy.html

[gwhh]

If you want to find out what it was REALLY like during the cold war in the spy V spy wars! 

 

Read everything this guy had every wrote.

 

It will show you how GOOD the KGB was (compared to the CIA) and how serious they took there work! 

 

Its makes the TV show look tame by compassion!

 

Ion Mihai Pacepa:  born 28 October 1928 in Bucharest, Romania) is a former three-star general in the Securitate, the secret police of Communist Romania, who defected to the United States in July 1978. He is the highest-ranking defector from the former Eastern Bloc, and has written several books and many news articles on the inner workings of the communist intelligence services during and after the cold war.

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ion_Mihai_Pacepa

Edited February 12, 2015 by gwhh

[Umbelina]

n/m, thread name changed.

Edited February 15, 2015 by Umbelina

[Umbelina]

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10000872396390444097904577537044185191340

 

Real life child of embedded spies was recruited by his parents.  He was 20, and it's still classified about when they recruited him, and how. 

 

They mention another teenage son that had no idea.  Very interesting article sistermagpie linked.

 

One child, a teenager, was allowed to stay in the U.S. after his parents were arrested, and officials said the son isn't viewed as a risk to national security. His father, who went by the name Juan Lazaro, wanted his son to become a concert pianist, according to a former colleague of the father. A lawyer for the family declined to comment.

 

Tim Foley was among the children most extensively groomed for a future spy career, officials say. Though he wasn't American-born, his parents lived in the U.S. for more than a decade, under the assumed names Donald Heathfield and Tracey Foley. Mr. Foley was 20 when his parents were arrested and had just finished his sophomore year at George Washington University in the nation's capital.

His parents revealed their double life to him well before their arrest, according to current and former officials, whose knowledge of the discussion was based on surveillance by the Federal Bureau of Investigation that included bugging suspects' homes. The officials said the parents also told their son they wanted him to follow in their footsteps.

He agreed, said the officials. At the end of the discussion with his parents, according to one person familiar with the surveillance, the young man stood up and saluted "Mother Russia." He also agreed to travel to Russia to begin formal espionage training, officials said.

Officials wouldn't say where or when the conversation between Mr. Foley and his parents took place or whether he made it to Russia before the spy group was arrested, though they said he eventually went there. Many details of the investigation remain classified.

 

Based on their extensive surveillance of the secret agents and their messages to handlers back in Moscow, U.S. counterintelligence officials believe the grooming of Mr. Foley was part of a long-term goal for some of the group's children to become spies when they got older.

 

The admitted secret agents were eventually flown to Austria, where, in a scene reminiscent of a Cold War spy drama, they were swapped on a Vienna airport tarmac for four men who had been imprisoned in Russia, most on charges of spying for the West.

 

[crgirl412]

Interesting!!  I'm going to look up some of his books at my local library. 

[Umbelina]

http://www.csmonitor.com/1980/0923/092342.html

 

This is very interesting, some more "real" KGB embedded spies,and one who turned double agent for the US after caught.

[scowl]

http://www.csmonitor.com/1980/0923/092342.html

 

This is very interesting, some more "real" KGB embedded spies,and one who turned double agent for the US after caught.

 

This 1980 article does a good job of showing what a joke Soviet espionage had been. The handlers often embellished the meager intelligence they got to make their contacts seem more important than they really were. They were occasionally able to pass on vague impressions of American policy but rarely anything concrete. They rarely found ideological recruits in the west and had far more success with Americans coming to them wanting cash for secrets.

[gwhh]

Does anyone really know if the KGB built real towns in the USSR that looked just like American towns so there spies could train there?

Or was it just a Cold War myth encouraged by movies, books, and TV.

Edited February 27, 2015 by gwhh

[Umbelina]

It was from a GREAT book, called "The Charm School."  I wonder too if it was based on fact.  Alias did a great rif on that on their show too.

 

Also, still recommending Alan Furst's books.  Old school spy stuff, from WWII, but covers basics still used, although we have many fewer spys on the ground these days.

[paulvdb]

I don't know if those towns really existed, but I remember watching a movie where two Americans were kidnapped by the KGB to help update their fake American town that was still stuck in the 1950s. Unfortunately I don't remember the name of the movie or any of the actors.

Edit: Google tells me that it must haven been The Experts.

Edited February 26, 2015 by paulvdb

[gwhh]

The TV show Hunter had an episode that had that plot in it!

It was from a GREAT book, called "The Charm School."  I wonder too if it was based on fact.  Alias did a great rif on that on their show too.

 

Also, still recommending Alan Furst's books.  Old school spy stuff, from WWII, but covers basics still used, although we have many fewer spys on the ground these days.

[sistermagpie]

I gotta say, I just recently read The Charm School and really hated it.

[Umbelina]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Chapman

Post KGB and USSR

This is more modern but someone brought it up in the episode thread, and it's kind of cool.  Lot's of "honey trap" talks and a few funny things as well.

 

The big Russian Spy swap of 198 might be more relevant.  This references that, and other CIA secrets.

http://www.newsmax.com/RonaldKessler/Revealing-CIA-Secrets/2009/12/12/id/341610/

 

KGB in the CIA in the 80's (one of the guys released during the 86 spy swap.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Koecher

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Koecher

Edited February 27, 2015 by Umbelina

[JennyMominFL]

Does anyone really know if the KGB built real towns in the USSR that looked just like American towns so there spies could train there?

Or was it just a Cold War myth encouraged by movies, books, and TV.

Could be. There is a place on camp pendleton called Combat town, which looks like a middle eastern town. We train there for door to door combat. I could see the USSR having similar things

[Umbelina]

Spycraft: The Secret History of the CIA's Spytechs

 

Oh heck, that link just made me go buy this book.  Luckily, Better World had a used copy, because the other new and used prices ranged up to $99.00 at Barnes and Noble and I didn't want an ebook.

[crgirl412]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Chapman

Post KGB and USSR

This is more modern but someone brought it up in the episode thread, and it's kind of cool.  Lot's of "honey trap" talks and a few funny things as well.

 

The big Russian Spy swap of 198 might be more relevant.  This references that, and other CIA secrets.

http://www.newsmax.com/RonaldKessler/Revealing-CIA-Secrets/2009/12/12/id/341610/

 

KGB in the CIA in the 80's (one of the guys released during the 86 spy swap.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Koecher

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Koecher

 

Thanks Umbelina!!!  Really cool info!!! 

[Umbelina]

I think it also showed that embedded spies generally had a good long run, without the FBI or CIA catching on.  Not really the CIA's fault, since they can't operate on US soil.

[albaniantv]

Umbelina--you may be a bit too kind about the CIA. True, they are not supposed to operate in US, but they are supposed to be alert to what's going on and advise their FBI colleagues accordingly. 

 

The articles about Anna Chapman are fascinating -- surprised we don't have a movie about her yet, especially since it seems her dad was KGB too.

[gwhh]

Ted Kenndy was working with the KGB during the 1980's:

http://hotair.com/archives/2015/03/10/traitors-hardly-antagonizing-a-co-equal-branch-of-government-has-consequences/

[Umbelina]

My book just arrived from Better World Books, it's huge.  Spycraft: The Secret History of the CIA's Spytechs  https://www.sciencenews.org/article/book-review-spycraft-secret-history-cia%E2%80%99s-spytechs-communism-al-qaeda-robert-wallace-and-h

 

I need to get my taxes done and several birthday presents wrapped and mailed, but I'll let you guys know if I learn anything good from it!

Edited March 11, 2015 by Umbelina

[kikaha]

The best-known and likely successful Soviet spy ring of all didn't operate in the US, but in England.  Kim Philby rose to one of the top positions in British intelligence, and spent over two decades, from the mid 1930s till 1963, there.  Yet the whole time he was a Soviet double agent.  He apparently did untold damage to western intelligence: the main thing holding him back was Stalin's bat-shit crazy paranoia that Kim was in fact a triple agent (not true).  Philby eventually escaped to the USSR in the early 1960s, along with several others of his high-placed group (called the Cambridge 5), and lived out his days there. 

 

A real cool magical realism novel about this is "Declare," by Tim Powers.  Think it won a bunch of sc-fi, horror and mystery awards back in the early 2000s.  

[Umbelina]

I was thumbing through that book last night, and sure enough, pen bugs, and pen cameras were in there, including photos of some real ones through the decades.

 

I see why I didn't have to pay the $100 for the book.  This copy has tons of underlining, and most of that is in really weird places, a few random words several times in paragraphs.  Made me think of spies actually.  Ha.  It's annoying as hell.

 

The book focuses on technical services, the people behind the scenes who build the furniture, clothing, bugs, "rocks" for concealing things like bugs, tapes, microdots, and produced the paper, passports, visas, entry stamps, faked airline travel etc. for various covers.  Basically, everything it took for a spy to do their jobs.  I'm pretty shocked at how advanced (and tiny) many things were very early on.  So it covers the entire CIA period from the 40's to almost present day, and gets into details about some specific operations and ways things were used or transported in various countries. 

 

Frankly, I'd be shocked if the writers of The Americans don't have a well used copy or two of this book.  Really.  The whole Zenaida escape in the box is practically torn from this book (but the book goes into specifics.)  Once, a Mercedes gas tank was modified to hold a man escaping from an Eastern Block country...an op that went bad, which they detail.

 

They showed "simple" disguises and again, it was very much like this show, basically that embedded spies all had about a dozen different ones to use at all times, if simply to not be recognized by a neighbor.  The one thing I noticed in the show that isn't being used, but really was (as I already knew from other reading) is TEETH.  As Robert Baer said in one of his books, with disguise, you tend to go for something memorable that distracts you from observing other features, clunky glasses, or unusual teeth (crooked, or larger, or missing/decayed/whatever.)

 

I will end up reading it all.  I did read the last few chapters from start to finish.  They did an EXCELLENT job of explaining why almost none of the previous work can work now, in the age of google and computers.  The electronic footprint is much harder to fake than a passport.  Basically explaining why computers are now the key to everything and most spy work.  I found that interesting because Robert Baer (former op agent for the CIA) really feels that our intelligence network is completely out of the loop now because it's all computers and techs now, and there are almost no agents on the ground.  He strongly feels that the person to person bonds are the heart and soul of intelligence work, and without them we are fucked.  This book explains very well why it's much harder now to place those agents, and also how relatively easy it is now (with computers) to pass on information that used to involve dead drops and other tradition spy techniques.  Now just sign up for a trial ISP, send a photo with the data imbedded in an eyelash of one of the people and call it a day, dump the computer, or use a removable flash to boot up, and throw that in a fireplace...

 

Very interesting.  I recommend it if you are into the tech stuff of the past.  Obviously the CIA isn't going to go into detail about their computer skills, but the book at least shows how massive and almost impossible that job is.

 

ETA

Oh! 

 

I forgot to mention, they also talk about vetting assets and spies, and the various tests they used to do that.  People like Philip and Elizabeth are referred to as Operations Officers, and they recruits spies or assets (like Martha, etc.)  Martha fit the bill of disgruntled employee and liable to fall for a "honey trap" with Philip as the "honey."  The process is fascinating, and they also used undercover psychologists to vet possible spies or assets to use.  One example they give is a guy they were thinking of recruiting who frequented a certain bar, and liked blonds.  So the tech team dressed her up, gave her a wig and other disguising objects/outfit/make up/made her eyes blue, etc.  She did the assessment profile while pretending to let him pick her up.  She wasn't a field agent, and normally did her work in an office at Langley.

Edited March 12, 2015 by Umbelina

[Umbelina]

One of the saddest photographs in that book, so immediate and real, was a CIA agent being dragged into a car by the KGB.  He was just one of many betrayed by the CIA's Aldrich Ames, or the FBI's Robert Hanssen, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Hanssen.  He was executed shortly after the photo was taken.  I need to find that part of the book and read more about it, especially HOW they were able to take that photo!

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aldrich_Ames

 

If you think the FBI are stupid on this show, read the wiki on Hanssen.  Good God they were both stupid and completely inept!

Edited March 13, 2015 by Umbelina

[crgirl412]

Thanks Umbelina!  Another book I need to read!! 

 

 

The one thing I noticed in the show that isn't being used, but really was (as I already knew from other reading) is TEETH.

 

I was thinking about this not two hours ago!!!  Philip has used teeth on occasion but I don't think Elizabeth ever used them.  I'm not sure why they don't all the time since it can make a big difference in the face and in recognizing someone. 

Edited March 13, 2015 by crgirl412

[sistermagpie]

I was thinking about this not two hours ago!!!  Philip has used teeth on occasion but I don't think Elizabeth ever used them.  I'm not sure why they don't all the time since it can make a big difference the face and in recognizing someone.

 

 

I remember her using them in the last scenes of the season 1 finale. I didn't notice the teeth but I remember her pulling them out when they switched cars.

 

Scott definitely has teeth, yes?

[Umbelina]

I went on an old spy stuff hunt yesterday.  One weird thing struck me.  Nina and Mata Hari have a similar "look."  It's more noticeable in some photos than in others.

Now of course fashion has changed, and they aren't dead ringers, but the mouth, the eyes, and definitely the body are similar.  Both double agents too.  It was a weird thing to notice.

 

 

 

It made me wonder more about Mata Hari.  Was she "turned" as well, used maybe?  Not so much a traitor as a woman trapped by spies?

Ha.

 

I read a chapter last night about Cuba, and good God, the mistakes, and the various plans to kill Castro seemed so out there!  Exploding cigars, etc.

 

Anyway, the most interesting thing was 3 tech guys, not field agents, who went in soon after Castro took over, to do a 2-3 day job of bugging a future residence for (didn't say which country, I'm thinking the Soviet Union.)  Things went REALLY bad, and the 3 were caught and imprisoned for a few years in a hell hole, threat of death constant.  It was fascinating, they never broke, which kept them alive.  This was difficult since they went in only under "light" cover, kind of like Philip or Elizabeth's disguises, anyone looking hard could break them.  Also, they didn't really memorize all of the details, since no one imagined they would be caught.

 

Since they were tech guys, in a truly disgusting prison, they rigged a radio out of things like copper wire they tore from the walls and an empty toilet paper roll.  They also eventually made IED (hand held bombs) out of distilled fruit booze and some TNT they tunneled to after Castro rigged the prison to go down if another Bay of Pigs happened.  3 basically ordinary guys, all engineers, suddenly immersed in hell and spycraft.

 

They were traded out 2-3 years later for some Cubans, 30 year sentence.  Many years later, about when they retired, they were finally recognized with the highest medal the CIA gives.

 

The bias is obvious in this book, and those underlinings are freaking me out a bit, so random, and while reading about various spy codes, it's hard not to imagine I've accidentally purchased something like that.  Ha.  Still, there are little gems like this throughout, and it's hard not to be fond of the "Marshall's"  (Alias) guys the book generally is discussing. 

 

This is the style of their prison.  http://weburbanist.com/2014/05/15/real-life-panopticons-deserted-dystopian-prisons-in-cuba/

 

The bathrooms had no running water, actually the prison trucked in fresh water, and salt water came from one tap in the courtyard, which had to be carried up to "bathrooms" to flush, so yeah, human muck everywhere.

Edited March 13, 2015 by Umbelina

[Umbelina]

I pulled out my DVD of the movie RED last night, and listened to the commentary by Robert Baer, 21 year vet of the CIA, author, and sometimes commentator on CNN, again.  It was better, and more relevant to The Americans than I'd remembered.

 

It was more interesting than ever, after discussion here, and watching The Americans.  The movie is really inexpensive, kind of fun, but the commentary is really fun to listen to, not just the words, but the way they are delivered.  Since he WAS a cold war active spy, and a Station Chief, and worked in The Soviet Union, Iraq, Afghanistan (as well as other places, but those are the ones that relate to The Americans) the comments shed a lot of light on this show.

 

A couple of things he said of the top of my head.

 

He knew several KGB that spoke with perfect American accents, specifically Indiana accents, they did in depth study at a school in Moscow, and would come and go from the USA all the time.

 

He said the KGB and CIA never killed each other, it was kind of a "gentleman's agreement" between the two agencies during the Cold War, very civilized, and after 1991 he would meet up with them for things like skydiving, or playing with cool weapons, since basically the KGB simply changed names.  He pointed out that they never completely trusted each other, but they were quite friendly.  (A relationship like that exists in the movie, and he says it's completely realistic.)

 

During a scene where the CIA and FBI are jointly working together, he kind of scoffs and says "Yeah, that wouldn't happen.  No way  in hell would the FBI take orders from the CIA on American soil."   The CIA officer pulls out a gun during the scene, and again, he says, "that's for the movies, and it works here BUT" in real life the CIA guy would never be allowed to have that gun, since they were after American citizens.  The FBI would, but not the CIA.  (Kind of reminded me of the FBI/CIA scene in The Americans there that I felt was silly on the show.)

 

His cynicism about "the way things in the world really work" as opposed to what average citizens think, or new CIA/FBI officers think is fascinating, and comes up many times.  He basically thinks no one has any real idea, and points it out in several places.

 

After reading that Wiki piece on Hannsen linked above, it was also interesting to hear Baer say something like "The worst internal spy we ever caught?" (that would have to be Hannsen) "You will never know the real story about how he was caught.  There is a lot of information out there, and it's all false."  !!!  He kind of implied we knew many moles that were spying, but let them do it for reasons of our own.

 

He said that CIA stuff that is seriously secret is never put on a computer, or talked about on any phone, it's hand written, with lots of false hand-written details filed, specifically to keep the FBI off their asses, "layers upon layers."  In RED there is a "back room" vault, and he confirms that is true as well, and why.  He talks about, as a new agent, 22 years old, he tried to get his hands on the JFK secret files, but they "disappeared" and it's a good story.

 

He says the KGB was the best at surveillance, and one way the CIA got around it in Moscow was the rubber mask disguises.  Two agents would attend a party with their wives, go into the bathroom, put on the masks and "become" each other.  Then the agent that needed to do stuff, meet a contact, whatever, would leave the party with the other guy's wife to do his thing.  He said the thing they learned to watch for with surveillance teams was shoes.  Changing appearance or clothes was easy, but very few spies bother to change their shoes.

 

He pointed out many different weapons and spy techniques, said there isn't a building in the entire world the CIA can't break in to.  Ditto for the KGB, and talked about what an honor and great job being asked to be in the KGB was for any soviet, more money, travel, etc.  This reminded me of the time I think Baer blew it on CNN, during the MH370: Malaysia Airlines early days.  The talking heads were frustrated that the pilots homes were not being searched due to Malaysian laws.  At one point, Baer kind of does this frustrated look/near sigh, like "are you STUPID??"  and implies the CIA already searched right them after it happened.  He shut up fast, and didn't appear back on the commenting team after that.  Ha.

 

Anyway, there is more.  I highly recommend getting a copy of that DVD and listening to the comments he makes, and stops himself from making.  Very enlightening.  His books aren't bad either, but the CIA did redact some stuff.

Edited March 14, 2015 by Umbelina

[CarpeDiem54]

Fascinating, Umbelina. Thanks!

[Umbelina]

A couple of other things just came to me.

 

He said the CIA NEVER negotiates for hostages.  Ever.  They have rescue, break in, and assassination teams, but not hostage negotiating.

 

To illustrate a scene in the film, and the capabilities of CIA trained spies to break into any place on earth, he mentioned that he received a medal from the CIA.  Since he was covert, he was not allowed to take it out of the building, and it was kept in a vault.  He has it.  (ha)

 

He left the CIA after he apparently tried to assassinate Saddam Hussein.  (Against the law since the Cuba fiasco under Kennedy/Eisenhower.)  When he got home the FBI arrested him.  He quit.

 

He said that even disposable cell phones can trap you easily.  Any technology will. 

 

He said that he (and other spies) will use anyone to stay undercover, and he used his mom several times, and mentioned 'babies are good' and couples are less noticeable than single men.  Oh, and he said using dogs is almost always good, because you can walk anywhere at any time.  Ha, reminded me of Elizabeth and her dog.

 

When the female lead of the show's life is in danger, he is pretty matter of fact that in real life, you'd have to just let her die, but the hero loves her, and she has shown a knack/liking for that life, and since it's very hard to find someone like that, he understands and finds it believable that the hero won't let her die. 

 

He married a CIA covert agent eventually, and he talks about her training (as well as his own) in some depth.  For example, he mentioned that she spent 6 months just on weapons, and firing weapons from cars going 60 MPH, or tossing grenades from same, etc.  For himself, he talks of ways the CIA weeds out people who could be problematic under pressure.  He says he's met a lot of people, newscasters, stars, famous people, politicians, etc. who have spent time in the CIA *but most a year or less, which means they probably couldn't make the cut, or perhaps really did hate it.*

 

He said he has always, in or out of the CIA, assumed his phone is tapped.  What a way to live!

 

Lots of good stuff about various weapons and tools of the trade too.

 

Well worth the $5 is only to listen to him spill stuff.  http://www.target.com/p/red-special-edition-widescreen/-/A-13292007#prodSlot=medium_1_2&term=red+dvd

Edited March 16, 2015 by Umbelina

[Dowel Jones]

They were occasionally able to pass on vague impressions of American policy but rarely anything concrete.

 

Sort of like today's Congress and Senate.

[sistermagpie]

Relevant to recent conversations, here's an article on real life spies passing (or not passing) as native speakers!

 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/life-bilingual/201412/passing-native-speaker

[sistermagpie]

English translation of a Dutch article about a recent Illegals couple hilariously (imo) filled with stills from The Americans.

 

http://www.mo.be/en/news/belgium-chases-russian-spy-couple

[gwhh]

KGB organization chart:

 

 

 

What happened to the KGB after the Soviet Union Fall:

 

http://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/2s30b9/what_happened_to_the_kgb_agents_in_the_field/

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Chief_Directorate

 

KGB Lexicon: The Soviet Intelligence Officers Handbook

 

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/kgb-lexicon-vasili-mitrokhin/1112967148?ean=9781136343513

Edited April 4, 2015 by gwhh

[Umbelina]

“Soviet intelligence had a long-term view of their case officers, and the idea of putting someone in place and keeping someone there until they are needed,” Woolsey says.

 

The Soviets posing as Americans sought to develop Indiana accents to pass themselves off as native Midwesterns, and could be very tough to spot, says Bob Baer, a former CIA case officer. The problem with “The Americans” is that “if you took the real life of a Russian illegal spy it would be boring,” says Baer, who used to run undercover illegals whose lives were very different than those depicted on the show.

“If you go for 100 percent realism, you’re going to put the audience to bed,” Baer says. “I used to run illegals and you would let them float around a community looking for people who could be potential sources – people with marriage problems, with money problems, people who hated their government. Then they would bring in a case officer who was protected with diplomatic immunity to recruit someone – they would never recruit anybody themselves.”

 

Nonofficial cover spies ran a much higher risk than operatives protected by diplomatic immunity, so they almost never did things that might blow their cover like recruiting, surveillance or kidnapping, Baer says. The Jennings do these things each episode because it makes for good TV, but “it’s very hard” for a spy show to be realistic and dramatic, Woolsey says. Russian spies like those working under assumed identities as diplomats at the Soviet embassy on the show were more likely to do spy work like recruit sources, Woolsey says.

 

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2015/01/29/former-cia-spies-call-the-americans-more-exciting-than-reality

 

(The article also says the CIA must approve scripts)

https://www.cia.gov/news-information/featured-story-archive/2014-featured-story-archive/helping-safeguard-our-nations-secrets-the-publication-review-board.html

 

BTW, anyone pick up that DVD "RED" yet?  You will really enjoy Baer's commentary, I promise. 

[Umbelina]

Started a new book, the one that had most of the good stuff redacted (petulantly apparently, since almost everything they blacked out is included in the end notes.)  Valerie Plume, the real life spy Bush's people outed when their lie about weapons of mass destruction in Iran blew up.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Game:_My_Life_as_a_Spy,_My_Betrayal_by_the_White_House

 

Since I already know the main body of the book, or the good stuff anyway, was redacted, and she amusingly leaves in all the blacked out lines, I started with the end notes.  I didn't really expect to learn anything that might relate to The Americans, but I already have, and I've just begun.  She also begins spying during the cold war, and the stuff about agents with covers as working for the embassy, thus, diplomatic immunity (this would be Arkady's people) usually do all of the dirty work simply because of that.  She begins that way, with a diplomatic cover, but is soon asked to abandon that and be a spy posing as a business woman.  It's a very scary prospect since she loses that diplomatic immunity status, and anything she does for the CIA can, and probably will, be disavowed if she's caught. 

 

I'll report back in if anything else relevant to this show pops up.  ;)

Edited April 9, 2015 by Umbelina

[Umbelina]

Aside from some interesting tidbits in FAIR GAME about what real embedded case officers do (find the targets, let the embassy spies do the dirty work, work their agents) the only other relevant thing was a little thing that slipped through the redacter's magic marker about the USA slipping weapons into Afghanistan so the Mujaheddin could cause as many problems for the soviets as possible, and the funding for that.

 

I also kind of liked her acknowledging the "out" spies that stuck by her and supported her during the nightmare of the white house exposing her to get even with her husband.  Bob Baer was one of them, as was his now wife, Danya.  That whole fraternity of spies thing, the bond shared is very interesting.

 

 

http://www.npr.org/2011/03/07/134330700/a-covert-affair-when-cia-agents-fall-in-love

Edited April 11, 2015 by Umbelina

[Umbelina]

One more interview, with some talk about the cold war, and the end of the cold war, spies motivations, patriotism, and some nuts and bolts of spying back then and contrasting it to now.  At least one topic takes place in 1983, the bombing in Lebanon.

 

[Umbelina]

Last one, if you want to see Philip's CIA counterpart, without Elizabeth. 

 

[Espy]

I love all these posts Umbelina, thank you! Keep them coming :)

 

I've read a couple of those books, Fair Game, and one by both Dayna and Robert Baer (the name escapes me), and they're both fascinating reads. It's so interesting to see how much The Americans gets right, and to see how much is taken from reality and then exaggerated slightly for dramatic effect. 

[gwhh]

You have to remember that during the cold war. The illegals from Directive S was strategic assets whole cards in the game of poker between the West & Soviet Union. On par, with nuclear ballistic submarine, and bases in foreign nations, and things like that. So the value the P&E have to the soviet union is on that level!

When you watching the embassy staff type up the mail robot recording. Does anyone know if they where manual typewriters or electric ones? They look like manual ones to me!

I remembered that the CIA supposedly developed a technique that would allow them to figure out what a electric typewriter was typing by analyzing the pulses over the power lines. I don't know if they actually had this ability, or how well they worked, if they hand, or if they actually used it in the field. Supposedly it was developed during the 1970's. And than quite using them when computer come out soon after that!

Edited April 22, 2015 by gwhh

[anyanka323]

The best-known and likely successful Soviet spy ring of all didn't operate in the US, but in England.  Kim Philby rose to one of the top positions in British intelligence, and spent over two decades, from the mid 1930s till 1963, there.  Yet the whole time he was a Soviet double agent.  He apparently did untold damage to western intelligence: the main thing holding him back was Stalin's bat-shit crazy paranoia that Kim was in fact a triple agent (not true).  Philby eventually escaped to the USSR in the early 1960s, along with several others of his high-placed group (called the Cambridge 5), and lived out his days there. 

 

A real cool magical realism novel about this is "Declare," by Tim Powers.  Think it won a bunch of sc-fi, horror and mystery awards back in the early 2000s.  

 

Here's a great book about Philby and the Cambridge 5 that was published last year.  The author Ben McIntyre has written other nonfiction books about British intelligence, including several about World War II. 

http://www.amazon.com/Spy-Among-Friends-Philby-Betrayal/dp/0804136637/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1429756277&sr=8-1&keywords=a+spy+among+friends

 

Philiby and the Cambridge 5 have been referenced indirectly in John Le Carre's work, most notably in Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy. 

[Umbelina]

I've been reading quite a bit about them.  I'll have to dig out the articles and books to remember where! 

[gwhh]

How the soviets could have won.

http://nationalinterest.org/feature/five-ways-the-soviet-union-could-have-won-the-cold-war-10888

[Umbelina]

I was just googling the Berlin Wall, and Kruezberg to waste some time, and this interesting time line chronicle came up.

 

http://www.chronik-der-mauer.de/index.php/en/Start/Index/id/1404591

 

This is on 1983, but you can choose your year for events.  LOTS of interesting things are about to happen in the Cold War.  This mentions arms, missiles, the pope's visit to Poland, and:

10 November: The Nobel Peace Prize is awarded to Lech Walesa, the leader of the banned Polish trade union "Solidarity".

 

I'd imagine that would piss Elizabeth off, and if Paige is still alive, and living in the USA, some interesting family discussion if next season resumes during 1983.

[John S]

I would suspect that next season will begin on March 8th or 9th. There will have to be SOME repercussion from Paige's telling of the secret.

[CarpeDiem54]

I was just googling the Berlin Wall, and Kruezberg to waste some time, and this interesting time line chronicle came up.

 

http://www.chronik-der-mauer.de/index.php/en/Start/Index/id/1404591

 

This is on 1983, but you can choose your year for events.  LOTS of interesting things are about to happen in the Cold War.  This mentions arms, missiles, the pope's visit to Poland, and:

I'd imagine that would piss Elizabeth off, and if Paige is still alive, and living in the USA, some interesting family discussion if next season resumes during 1983.

Thanks! I've spent 3 hours reading that site. Very interesting.

[gwhh]

A great book about something that may have happened!

 

Book: Red Star Rouge

 

One of the great secrets of the Cold War, hidden for decades, is revealed at last.

Early in 1968 a nuclear-armed Soviet submarine sank in the waters off Hawaii, hundreds of miles closer to American shores than it should have been. Compelling evidence, assembled here for the first time, strongly suggests that the sub, K-129, sank while attempting to fire a nuclear missile, most likely at the naval base at Pearl Harbor.

We now know that the Soviets had lost track of the sub; it had become a rogue. While the Soviets searched in vain for the boat, U.S. intelligence was able to pinpoint the site of the disaster. The new Nixon administration launched a clandestine, half-billion-dollar project to recover the sunken K-129. Contrary to years of deliberately misleading reports, the recovery operation was a great success. With the recovery of the sub, it became clear that the rogue was attempting to mimic a Chinese submarine, almost certainly with the intention of provoking a war between the U.S. and China. This was a carefully planned operation that, had it succeeded, would have had devastating consequences. During the successful recovery effort, the U.S. forged new relationships with the USSR and China. Could the information gleaned from the sunken sub have been a decisive factor shaping the new policies of détente between the Americans and the Soviets, and opening China to the West? And who in the USSR could have planned such a bold and potentially catastrophic operation?

 

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/red-star-rogue-kenneth-sewell/1007883276?ean=9780786173976