Supernatural Bitterness & Unpopular Opinions: You All Suck

[Pondlass1]

15 hours ago, AwesomO4000 said:

I really dislike Led Zeppelin and in general only barely tolerate Metallica and would very likely not be able to hide that fact, so Dean would probably end up throwing me out on the side of the road for the monster to eat if we had to spend any time alone in the car together. Now if Dean wanted to sing Air Supply or Bon Jovi, no problem. Heh. But the moment the Led Zeppelin came out, I'd be toast. ; )

Talking of Metallica ... have they ever played Enter Sandman on the show?  Just the intro alone makes me think of Supernatural every time I hear it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2mJUjBE4U0

 

Demon Dean and Soulless Sam - who'd win?  Who'd comes to their senses first and not hurt the other?  Considering the silly questions we're getting at conventions lately - it'd be fun to ask something like this.  

In terms of saving me.  Dean is action man, Sam maybe more reflective.  The episode about the born again virgins - where Dean gives that description of the sex act at the group session - I always have to smile at the captives in the basement.  They've been there so long one man has literally died from starvation.  Dean immediately takes the leadership role, ordering everyone about like he does, but he has them out within a couple of hours.  Sam finds him, but it's Dean that gets them out.  

The brothers can be quite different.  It's what makes the relationship TV gold. Dean withdraws and becomes angry when the topic is something he doesn't want to discuss.  No one gets close to Dean.  But Sam physically withdraws.  Maybe stomping off is the wrong description.  But Sam goes... usually to find some other companion.  He's had a brother all his life and wants someone.  Dean is a loaner.  

[Wayward Son]

3 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Nope.  Sam.  Those long legs?  He could outrun anything.  ;)  And the way he picked up Charlie at the end of 7.20:

Le sigh.  Definitely Sam.

Definitely! This x100

[RulerofallIsurvey]

Just now, Katy M said:

Oh, sure. Sam's probably stronger and could run faster.  But, Dean.   If I'm going to die, I'm going to die in Dean's arms.

Works for me.  I'd get Sam!

3 minutes ago, Pondlass1 said:

Dean is a loaner.

Um...I think you mean loner.  ;)  

Of course, Dean could also be a loaner...but I have a feeling most of the Dean!Fans of this forum wouldn't want to give him back...  :D

[Pondlass1]

18 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

most of the Dean!Fans of this forum wouldn't want to give him back...  :D

Ha ha.  I certainly wouldn't!!!!

[gonzosgirrl]

25 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Oh, sure. Sam's probably stronger and could run faster.  But, Dean.   If I'm going to die, I'm going to die in Dean's arms.

Amen, sister! Not to mention, running is kinda Dean's thing.

 

[Wayward Son]

Haha love how everyone has their firm favourite! I'm the same only the opposite. I'd rather die in Sam's arms than live in Dean's ;)

[DittyDotDot]

I think I'll just save myself. ;)

[RulerofallIsurvey]

1 minute ago, DittyDotDot said:

I think I'll just save myself. ;)

Best answer!!!

And then I'd save Sam.  'cause he'd probably be tied to a tiny little chair.

And then Sam could help with Dean.  'cause he was probably knocked unconscious or something. ;)

[Katy M]

37 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

I think I'll just save myself. ;)

It's not about getting saved.  It's about who gets to carry you:)

[DittyDotDot]

5 minutes ago, Katy M said:

It's not about getting saved.  It's about who gets to carry you:)

Sure, but I got legs, so I'm good. ;)

[catrox14]

2 hours ago, Pondlass1 said:

 Dean is a loaner.  

Will you loan him to me? Forever?

[Wayward Son]

7 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

Sure, but I got legs, so I'm good. ;)

DDD is a feminist! She don't need no stinking man to save her!

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Amen, sister! Not to mention, running is kinda Dean's thing.

 

Your research is excellent and science based. 

Dean will likely outrun most things and well, if he doesn't, we still die in his arms. And maybe even steal a kiss before dying!

[catrox14]

Of course, the best chance of surviving is with a fully powered Castiel since he could just teleport us out. Obviously, I would make sure I swooned into Dean's arms for the trip, just in case it went wonky. I'd still end up in Dean Fucking Winchester's arms.

[Wayward Son]

The odds of survival 

 

Fully Powered Cas: 100%. He'd teleport his rescued victim out and go back for the others while Sam and Dean are still mid run.

 

Strength: N/A, Speed/Stamina: N/A 

 

Sam Winchester: 70% With his superior upper body strength and long legs he'd outrun most non-teleporters even with someone in his arms.

 

Strength: Yes, Speed/Stamina: Yes

 

Dean Winchester: 50%. He's reasonably fit and in shape, but per the show he definitely doesn't seem to work out and bulk up the way Sam does. So he'd likely struggle more with the weight of a person in his arms mid run.

 

Strength: Questionable, Speed/Stamina: Yes

 

De-powered Cas: 20%. I know Misha's a runner IRL, but on show has Cas ever demonstrated any form of running? If he's simply dewinged the physical exertion of carrying someone should be minimum, but if he's fully depowered then that would also be a major issue for Castiel.

 

Strength: Circumstancial - Doubtful, Speed/Stamina: Questionable

Edited June 23, 2017 by Wayward Son

[gonzosgirrl]

12 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

The odds of survival 

 

Fully Powered Cas: 100%. He'd teleport his rescued victim out and go back for the others while Sam and Dean are still mid run.

 

Strength: N/A, Speed/Stamina: N/A 

 

Sam Winchester: 70% With his superior upper body strength and long legs he'd outrun most non-teleporters even with someone in his arms.

 

Strength: Yes, Speed/Stamina: Yes

 

Dean Winchester: 50%. He's reasonably fit and in shape, but per the show he definitely doesn't seem to work out and bulk up the way Sam does. So he'd likely struggle more with the weight of a person in his arms mid run.

 

Strength: Questionable, Speed/Stamina: Yes

 

De-powered Cas: 20%. I know Misha's a runner IRL, but on show has Cas ever demonstrated any form of running? If he's simply dewinged the physical exertion of carrying someone should be minimum, but if he's fully depowered then that would also be a major issue for Castiel.

 

Strength: Doubtful, Speed/Stamina: Questionable

But I'll take a Dean Winchester determined to save someone over Sam, Castiel or pretty much anyone else. You can't put a number value on strength of character. :)

[Wayward Son]

1 minute ago, gonzosgirrl said:

But I'll take a Dean Winchester determined to save someone over Sam, Castiel or pretty much anyone else. You can't put a number value on strength of character. :)

Eh, if we are talking strength of character generally when things are most dire it's Dean who gives up and Sam who remotivates everyone into saving the day e.g. Point of No Return or Alpha and Omega ;)

[Katy M]

1 minute ago, gonzosgirrl said:

But I'll take a Dean Winchester determined to save someone over Sam, Castiel or pretty much anyone else. You can't put a number value on strength of character. :)

But, Sam's on a saving people kick.  At least he was in season 11.

[gonzosgirrl]

Just now, Wayward Son said:

Eh, if we are talking strength of character generally when things are most dire it's Dean who gives up and Sam who remotivates everyone into saving the day e.g. Point of No Return or Alpha and Omega ;)

Eh, Alpha and Omega, maybe, but I'll argue Point of No Return with you all day long. :) And Dean would be saving my ass while Cas was still debating whether or not it was the right thing to do, and Sam was Googling a plan.

[ILoveReading]

Id definitely take Dean for a number of reasons.

He's smart, scrappy and a good fighter. 

He's taken out opponents that are faster and stronger.

He doesn't give up

He's good at improvising and coming up with out of the the box plans when backed into a corner. 

He can talk himself out of a bad situation. 

Like others have pointed out if all that fails I'd die in his arms.

[Jeddah]

2 hours ago, DittyDotDot said:

I think I'll just save myself. ;)

I like to think watching this show for 12 years has prepared me if I ever need to save myself in a supernatural situation. Just another benefit of watching the show: supernatural survival skills.

[Aeryn13]

The most logical option would be fully-powered Castiel. Maybe it won`t end in a catastrophe. Somehow.

My prefered option would be Dean of course. He is plenty strong enough.

With Sam, I would most certainly say something that wounds his ego and then I`d have to save myself anyway because I`m not staying around for the church monologues after.  

[RulerofallIsurvey]

10 minutes ago, Jeddah said:

I like to think watching this show for 12 years has prepared me if I ever need to save myself in a supernatural situation. Just another benefit of watching the show: supernatural survival skills.

Do you carry salt packets, just in case?  

...Just in case your lunch needs a little extra flavor, of course.  ;)  At least, that's what I tell my co-workers.  :D

Edited June 23, 2017 by RulerofallIsurvey

[catrox14]

Dean is strong and agile. Even though Dean doesn't seem to formally work out on the regular, although he did in s10 but we never got to see it (BOO!!!,])  he is pretty well solid muscle with broad shoulders, arms and a strong back. He's been shown to easily flip himself upside down over a fence and foist himself up on a crossbar and out of a mausoleum both which require great upper body strength.  I think upper body strength is a wash.

Sam seems to run so I think endurance running might be to his advantage, whereas I think Dean might reach top speed quicker but maybe tire a little sooner. Kind of a wash on running for different purposes.

Sam would be good to carry one out if he has enough room to maneuver and he can probably cover ground a step or two quicker than Dean just by virtue of those long ass legs. He would have height advantage to lift you over a fence, that's for sure.

Dean is 6'1 so even for him depending on the room needed to maneuver that might be a disadvantage but enough height to hoist you up and over a fence or a high portal out of somewhere. 

Both can punch the crap out of someone so that's a wash.

I guess for me in the end, if I'm gonna possibly die, I'd just rather die in Dean's arms cause it's Dean. He's probably going crack some terrible pun because he'll be sad that he can't save me and I'll giggle and call him an ass and I might even get the OPT. That's a pretty good way to go, I suppose. LOL

[Jeddah]

22 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Do you carry salt packets, just in case?  

...Just in case your lunch needs a little extra flavor, of course.  ;)  At least, that's what I tell my co-workers.  :D

Sam Winchester can't call me a low sodium freak.

[Aeryn13]

Quote

whereas I think Dean might reach top speed quicker

I think some crrew people have said that Jensen is a really fast runner. They had trouble during the shooting of the End when Dean is supposed to outrun the Croatoan "zombies" because Jensen was outrunning them by way too much. Stunt-wise he appears to be very athletic.

And hell, take someone like Tom Cruise. He is well over 50, shorter of stature and what the man can do physically would bring many twenty year olds to tears. Granted, his affinity to do highly dangerous stunts himself probably does the same to his insurance people but my point is, size is not everything. 

[MysteryGuest]

33 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

size is not everything. 

That's what they all say...

I just think it's nice that we have such lovely options to choose from when considering who we'd like to save us.  Fantasy is a wonderful thing!

[AwesomO4000]

2 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

He doesn't give up

This one is maybe debatable. I tend to agree with @Wayward Son on this one. Although Dean tends to give up more when it's mostly himself and Sam who are involved - though considering how his "Save Sammy" instinct is supposed to be strong, that's concerning. In addition to "Alpha and Omega" and "Point of No Return" (though I can also half see @gonzosgirrl's debatable point) there's also "Meet the New Boss" (and no I wouldn't want to watch cartoon porn with Dean either, so I agree with Sam on that one), "Croatoan," and to a lesser extent "What Is..." and "Mannequin 3..." off the top of my head, but I'm probably forgetting some. Hell, Sam can have a positive attitude about being half crazy and hallucinating Lucifer. Although Sam can go a liiiittle bit overboard on the not giving up, too - "Time is on My Side" and "Mystery Spot" and much of season 10 anyone? - but I think I'll give the not giving up edge to Sam... I'm choosing to see season 8 as an anomaly, because yeah, to me, that made no sense character-wise based on most of what came before and after.

3 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

He's good at improvising and coming up with out of the the box plans when backed into a corner. 

That one I agree with. In addition to my aforementioned Dean is generally luckier point.

2 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

And hell, take someone like Tom Cruise. He is well over 50, shorter of stature and what the man can do physically would bring many twenty year olds to tears. Granted, his affinity to do highly dangerous stunts himself probably does the same to his insurance people but my point is, size is not everything. 

So true. And in my head, I even picture Sam as shorter, because in real life, I usually prefer short. Always have. Sam/Jared is one of my few exceptions*, because for the most part I find shorter more attractive. Tom Cruise (as mentioned), Dustin Hoffman, Jon Bon Jovi, Johnny Depp, Orlando Bloom and Brad Pitt (though 5' 11" is pushing it into too tall territory for me). What can I say? I like short.

* Well, and maybe Chris Hemsworth.

6 hours ago, DittyDotDot said:

I think I'll just save myself. ;)

Heh. Good point. When I was younger, I'd be right there with you. Nowadays, I know my limitations. I could think my way out, but fighting or running... not so much anymore (though admittedly running never was my strong suit for some reason. I can walk and walk and walk some more, but running: short bursts only.)

[ILoveReading]

1 hour ago, AwesomO4000 said:

This one is maybe debatable. I tend to agree with @Wayward Son on this one. Although Dean tends to give up more when it's mostly himself and Sam who are involved - though considering how his "Save Sammy" instinct is supposed to be strong, that's concerning. In addition to "Alpha and Omega" and "Point of No Return" (though I can also half see @gonzosgirrl's debatable point) there's also "Meet the New Boss" (and no I wouldn't want to watch cartoon porn with Dean either, so I agree with Sam on that one), "Croatoan," and to a lesser extent "What Is..." and "Mannequin 3..." off the top of my head, but I'm probably forgetting some. Hell, Sam can have a positive attitude about being half crazy and hallucinating Lucifer. Although Sam can go a liiiittle bit overboard on the not giving up, too - "Time is on My Side" and "Mystery Spot" and much of season 10 anyone? - but I think I'll give the not giving up edge to Sam... I'm choosing to see season 8 as an anomaly, because yeah, to me, that made no sense character-wise based on most of what came before and after.

 

I disagree those are really Dean "giving up."  Because I don't define that as giving up.

For example, you have two people learning to play the piano.  Both are struggling and having a really hard time.  One person says, "I quit, I'll never learn, I'm done."  So the instructor says, points out they had an easier time reading music this week.  So despite needing a pick me up they keep showing up for lessons.  Person 2, does the same thing but quits.  I don't consider the first scenario, giving up, just needing a little help to get over the hump. 

People doubt themselves and their abilities all the time, they might even think something is too hard, but unless they just completely walk away I don't define that as giving up.  There is nothing wrong with needing a helping hand. 

That's how I look at those scenarios.  Dean's one person, he tends to carry the weight of the world on his shoulders and somethings that weight catches up to him and problems look insurmountable.  He doesn't think he's strong enough.  So if he wants to step back and needs a pep talk, I don't consider that the same things as Dean giving up.  Even in Meet the New Boss.  When Bobby showed up with a lead, Dean jumped up to help.   It was his idea to trap death.  Croatoan he was willing to die with Sam, but he made sure all the others got out first.  What is... he went to help people before he realized he was trapped in with a fantasy land and he questioned whether what they did was worth it, but he still showed up on hunts.  He didn't give up.

Im drawing a blank on Mannequin 3 but if your referring to Lisa and Ben, then Dean felt he was a danger to them (that turned out to be right, as they used them to get to Dean), so him not thinking he's not good for him itsn't really giving up.

So that's why I say Dean never gives up, because he's willing to join the fight in the end, even if he needs a little help to get there.

For me, there are two time I would appy give up.  That is when Dean was in hell and Sam's plan to trade himself didn't work, I feel like he did give up on Dean.  He stopped trying to save Dean after that and just started following Ruby down the rabbit hole and season 8 when Sam just shut his phone off and walked away.

Edited June 23, 2017 by ILoveReading

[gonzosgirrl]

The only time I can really agree that Dean gave up is Croatoan. But so did Sam, because they just saw every single person infected with the virus turn. They had no reason to believe that Sam wouldn't as well. And for Dean, he is still dealing with John's death, his survivor's guilt and the untenable burden John put on him, and now he's faced with Sam dying, too. I don't agree with him basically committing suicide by staying with Sam, but I certainly understand it.

The other times mentioned by ILoveReading, I agree. As for Point of No Return and Alpha and Omega, I don't see either of these as giving up, not at all. Both times he made impossible decisions to fight and/or end the battle in the only way he saw left to him at the time. Saying yes to Michael, and letting Death banish him forever to a place he couldn't hurt anyone else. They may have been wrong-headed choices, but they were choices of action, not giving up. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad that Sam owned up to his shit and showed faith in Dean in PONR, and I'm also glad he ignored Dean's 'orders' to not save him in the months leading up to A&O. That made him a hypocrite, but I loved him for it.

 

ETA: I am really off my game with episodes lately. I did not mean Alpha and Omega, rather Brother's Keeper (S10 finale).

Edited June 24, 2017 by gonzosgirrl

[Wayward Son]

22 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

The only time I can really agree that Dean gave up is Croatoan. But so did Sam, because they just saw every single person infected with the virus turn. They had no reason to believe that Sam wouldn't as well. And for Dean, he is still dealing with John's death, his survivor's guilt and the untenable burden John put on him, and now he's faced with Sam dying, too. I don't agree with him basically committing suicide by staying with Sam, but I certainly understand it.

The other times mentioned by ILoveReading, I agree. As for Point of No Return and Alpha and Omega, I don't see either of these as giving up, not at all. Both times he made impossible decisions to fight and/or end the battle in the only way he saw left to him at the time. Saying yes to Michael, and letting Death banish him forever to a place he couldn't hurt anyone else. They may have been wrong-headed choices, but they were choices of action, not giving up. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad that Sam owned up to his shit and showed faith in Dean in PONR, and I'm also glad he ignored Dean's 'orders' to not save him in the months leading up to A&O. That made him a hypocrite, but I loved him for it.

For A&O I'm referring to the time everyone namely Dean, Castiel, Rowena and Chuck gave up as Chuck was dying and the sun was dying. It was only due to Sam's stubborn refusal to give up at that moment the rest of them were able to regain the motivation needed to come up with a plan.

[CluelessDrifter]

19 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

For A&O I'm referring to the time everyone namely Dean, Castiel, Rowena and Chuck gave up as Chuck was dying and the sun was dying. It was only due to Sam's stubborn refusal to give up at that moment the rest of them were able to regain the motivation needed to come up with a plan.

 A plan that I think was ridiculous.  If each soul has the same power as 100 suns, and thousands upon thousands of them blew up, then then the whole world would have blown up, and that's not even including that apparently if Chuck goes, Amara goes and reality ceases to exist, because they can't live without the other, hence him locking her away instead of destroying her, and her basically waiting to die in that park.  I get that they needed Dean to have a reason to go talk to her, like he needed to have something powerful enough with him to make him feel like he could, but a better plan could have been made.  Sorry for the rant.  

Getting back to the point at hand.  I guess when you have God giving up, it's a little hard to find motivation to keep going, but they needed to have a reason for Dean to talk to Cas about Cas being Lucifer's vessel, so him going off to get alcohol achieved that, and he came back as soon as Sam called him with something and ultimately played his part - not giving up in my books.  I think saying you're giving up and actually giving up are two very different things.

Edited June 24, 2017 by CluelessDrifter

[Wayward Son]

14 minutes ago, CluelessDrifter said:

 A plan that I think was ridiculous.  If each soul has the same power as 100 suns, and thousands upon thousands of them blew up, then then the whole world would have blown up, and that's not even including that apparently if Chuck goes, Amara goes and reality ceases to exist, because they can't live without the other, hence him locking her away instead of destroying her, and her basically waiting to die in that park.  I get that they needed Dean to have a reason to go talk to her, like he needed to have something powerful enough with him to make him feel like he could, but a better plan could have been made.  Sorry for the rant.  

Getting back to the point at hand.  I guess when you have God giving up, it's a little hard to find motivation to keep going, but they needed to have a reason for Dean to talk to Cas about Cas being Lucifer's vessel, so him going off to get alcohol achieved that, and he came back as soon as Sam called him with something and ultimately played his part - not giving up in my books.  

I guess we can agree to have different definitions of what giving up is. IMO counting something as unachievable and leaving so you can drink till you're drunk while the world goes to hell counts as giving up albeit on a temporary basis. Fans can make up excuses all they like such as blaming the need for a DeanCas scene or whatever, but the bottom line is that Sam showed the strongest strength of character here. If it hadn't been for him the world would have ended while Dean drank beer and Chuck and Rowena drink tea and discussed how horrible their children are.  

Edited June 24, 2017 by Wayward Son

[RulerofallIsurvey]

3 hours ago, AwesomO4000 said:

So true. And in my head, I even picture Sam as shorter, because in real life, I usually prefer short. Always have. Sam/Jared is one of my few exceptions*, because for the most part I find shorter more attractive. Tom Cruise (as mentioned), Dustin Hoffman, Jon Bon Jovi, Johnny Depp, Orlando Bloom and Brad Pitt (though 5' 11" is pushing it into too tall territory for me). What can I say? I like short.

lol - A little off topic - but I never realized how "short" Jon Bon Jovi was (always thought he was Tall like over 6' tall) until I saw some movie he was in, and I thought "damn, he's short!"  He actually lost some of his attractiveness for me at that point.  ::shrug::  But I have tall (almost all over 6') male relatives, so...

6 minutes ago, CluelessDrifter said:

 A plan that I think was ridiculous.

It doesn't matter if it was ridiculous.  It doesn't matter if it never would have worked.  It doesn't matter if that's not even what didn't work in the end.  It was a Plan.  Which no one else had.  And SAM is the one who didn't give up and got everyone to rally to think of something-to try anything.  And that Anything?  That's what, in the end, did save the world.  

[CluelessDrifter]

I'd really prefer if my discussion about the writer choices here is not construed as an insult against Sam.  I didn't mean it that way.  That's why I'm clearing it up now, and it was actually Cas's plan to use the souls anyway.  It was only Cas's plan because the writers wanted it that way.  And if I don't blame Cas for the ridiculous plan (again to me), then I don't blame Dean for taking off for drinks with Cas, because the writers wanted it that way.  

Edited June 24, 2017 by CluelessDrifter
Change of tone

[Wayward Son]

6 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

It doesn't matter if it never would have worked.  It doesn't matter if that's not even what didn't work in the end.  It was a Plan.  Which no one else had.  And SAM is the one who didn't give up and got everyone to rally to think of something-to try anything.  And that Anything?  That's what, in the end, did save the world.  

Exactly! Well said! -claps- . Sam displayed the strongest strength of character in this episode, and it was his sheer tenacity and refusal to give up that kickstarted the world being saved in this instance 

Edited June 24, 2017 by Wayward Son

[ILoveReading]

17 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

It doesn't matter if it was ridiculous.  It doesn't matter if it never would have worked.  It doesn't matter if that's not even what didn't work in the end.  It was a Plan.  Which no one else had.  And SAM is the one who didn't give up and got everyone to rally to think of something-to try anything.  And that Anything?  That's what, in the end, did save the world.  

moving response to Bitch/Jerk

Edited June 24, 2017 by ILoveReading

[CluelessDrifter]

2 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Then by this logic wasn't Dean the one that saved the world in s5.  Because when Sam couldn't wrestle control right away he seemed to stop fighting.  So Cas, Bobby and Sam to that extent all gave up.  Dean's strength of character that he wouldn't let Sam die alone, led him to the cemetery where him showing up turned the tide of that battle.

Well, this is the way I've always seen it even though it's not really mentioned in the show.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

5 minutes ago, CluelessDrifter said:

Wow.  

For the record I maintain the same view per the S5 final, but in reverse.  See below:

Just now, ILoveReading said:

Then by this logic wasn't Dean the one that saved the world in s5.  Because when Sam couldn't wrestle control right away he seemed to stop fighting.  So Cas, Bobby and Sam to that extent all gave up.  Dean's strength of character that he wouldn't let Sam die alone, led him to the cemetery where him showing up turned the tide of that battle.

I think you mean, by this logic Sam wasn't the one who saved the world in S5.  

And yes, I do believe that Dean showing up turned the tide of that battle.  Unfortunately many DeanOnly!Fans do not see it that way.  I do think that without Dean there Sam would not have been able to do it. 

[Wayward Son]

Moved to bitch vs jerk.

Edited June 24, 2017 by Wayward Son

[MysteryGuest]

We're definitely straying into Sam vs. Dean territory again, and I thought this was just a fun little escape from lack- of-news boredom?  Most of us on this board have a favorite, even if only slightly.  I don't think this was meant to be a scientific examination of just which one of our three heroes is the best of the best.  It's totally subjective, and not going to change any of our opinions.  It just seems like this should move to a different thread, if the theme continues.

[gonzosgirrl]

44 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

For A&O I'm referring to the time everyone namely Dean, Castiel, Rowena and Chuck gave up as Chuck was dying and the sun was dying. It was only due to Sam's stubborn refusal to give up at that moment the rest of them were able to regain the motivation needed to come up with a plan.

I edited my post, but I did not mean Alpha and Omega, but rather Brother's Keeper.

You're right about A&O. I think Sam's dogged determination not to give up was because he felt he was responsible for The Darkness being unleashed in the first place (or at least that's how I'd feel if I were him).

[Wayward Son]

1 minute ago, MysteryGuest said:

We're definitely straying into Sam vs. Dean territory again, and I thought this was just a fun little escape from lack- of-news boredom?  Most of us on this board have a favorite, even if only slightly.  I don't think this was meant to be a scientific examination of just which one of our three heroes is the best of the best.  It's totally subjective, and not going to change any of our opinions.  It just seems like this should move to a different thread, if the theme continues.

You're right @MysteryGuest and I apologise for that! I forgot myself for a moment there. I'll make sure to take any future responses of this nature to the "bitch vs jerk" thread :)

[ILoveReading]

My apologies as well.    I'll move my post to the appropriate thread.

[gonzosgirrl]

17 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

I guess we can agree to have different definitions of what giving up is. IMO counting something as unachievable and leaving so you can drink till you're drunk while the world goes to hell counts as giving up albeit on a temporary basis. Fans can make up excuses all they like such as blaming the need for a DeanCas scene or whatever, but the bottom line is that Sam showed the strongest strength of character here. If it hadn't been for him the world would have ended while Dean drank beer and Chuck and Rowena drink tea and discussed how horrible their children are.  

Was it strength of character, or desperation born of a guilty conscience over having released the Darkness in the first place (along with Cas). Po-tay-to,, po-tah-to. *g*

[MysteryGuest]

1 minute ago, Wayward Son said:

You're right @MysteryGuest and I apologise for that! I forgot myself for a moment there. I'll make sure to take any future responses of this nature to the "bitch vs jerk" thread :)

I don't mean to play board police, but I'd prefer if the mods didn't have to chastise us again.  I hate it when we get reprimanded.  ;-0

[RulerofallIsurvey]

Well, I'm not going to apologize, because I don't think my responses were Sam vs. Dean, but rather Sam AND Dean.  And this is the Unpopular Opinions thread after all.*  ;P

 

* but yeah, any further dissection of world saving - should it turn into Sam vs. Dean - should be taken to the appropriate thread.

[MysteryGuest]

6 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Well, I'm not going to apologize, because I don't think my responses were Sam vs. Dean, but rather Sam AND Dean.  And this is the Unpopular Opinions thread after all.*  ;P

I didn't mean for anyone to apologize...especially to me.  I just didn't want us to get in trouble again.  

I think it's pretty sad if the unpopular opinion is that both Sam and Dean have saved the world together...numerous times.  Sam made the sacrifice in season 5 by jumping in the pit, but Dean was there to help him the entire way.  Dean was prepared to sacrifice his life to take out the Darkness, but it was Sam's refusal to give up that made them come up with a plan.  This is why they're a great team.  When one is ready to give up, the other is right there to make sure they keep fighting.  I don't know whether it's the fans who make things competitive, or whether the writers do it intentionally to keep us stirred up, but I don't get the impression that Sam or Dean care just who saves the day, as long as they survive to keep fighting.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

6 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

I don't get the impression that Sam or Dean care just who saves the day, as long as they survive to keep fighting.

Amen!

[AwesomO4000]

1 hour ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

lol - A little off topic - but I never realized how "short" Jon Bon Jovi was (always thought he was Tall like over 6' tall) until I saw some movie he was in, and I thought "damn, he's short!"  He actually lost some of his attractiveness for me at that point.  ::shrug::  But I have tall (almost all over 6') male relatives, so...

Half of my male relatives - especially on my Dad's side - are over 6 feet. My uncle is 6' 5." But I'm not tall, and for some reason, I've just always preferred short. Another example, I thought Spike was better looking than Angel, mostly because I thought Angel was too tall.

4 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

I disagree those are really Dean "giving up."  Because I don't define that as giving up.

Taking my response over to the "Bitch vs Jerk" thread.

Short version: I agree with you on "What Is..." and "Mannequin 3..." - that was more questioning than giving up. Admittedly I did preface with "to a lesser extent," but I agree "giving up" is a stretch now that I reconsider it. But I stand by "Meet the New Boss." I'll expand on that over in the proper thread.

I also give you season 8 - and I said as much in my own post above - but I disagree somewhat on season 4. Sam tried a bunch of things before moving on to Ruby's plan of action. I'm not exactly sure what else Sam was supposed to do after he'd exhausted all the avenues he'd had including dangerous ones like trying to open the Devil's gate again. At that point in the show, Sam didn't even know about angels or Death or any high powered potential avenues of getting Dean out of hell.