Hero Fails: Supposedly Heroic Characters Who Are Actually Awful

[Cobalt Stargazer]

On 2/28/2020 at 11:58 PM, VCRTracking said:

Marty in Cabin I'm the Woods. Selfish ass.

I dunno, I can see it from his perspective. He and his friends showed up expecting to just have a nice vacation, and they walk into a death trap.  They were dead the second they got there, and it's worse that they choose how they die. When no matter what happens, you end up as dog food without having done anything to "deserve" your fate, he sort of had a point in questioning the rightness of it. Especially when the people running the operation were gambling on the outcome:

"Wait. That's not fair. I had zombies, too!"

"Yes, you did. Yes, you had zombies. But this is "Zombie Redneck Torture Family," see? They're entirely separate species. Like the difference between an elephant and an elephant seal."

[Ambrosefolly]

Daniel from the Karate Kid. I wouldn't call Johnny a hero, but Daniel really was the instigator. 

Daniel is the REAL Bully

 

Edited August 27, 2020 by Ambrosefolly

[Cobalt Stargazer]

7 hours ago, Ambrosefolly said:

Daniel from the Karate Kid. I wouldn't call Johnny a hero, but Daniel really was the instigator. 

Daniel is the REAL Bully

 

Wow, that's some selective editing. It's been years since I watched The Karate Kid, but all I can think right now is, "Sweep the leg." Nice to know I hallucinated that for all these years.

[Morrigan2575]

14 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

Wow, that's some selective editing. It's been years since I watched The Karate Kid, but all I can think right now is, "Sweep the leg." Nice to know I hallucinated that for all these years.

I have to agree but, I'll give Johnny and itty bitty bit of credit for refusing the order at first.

ETA: Just rewatched Johnny didn't refuse but, he looked like he didn't want to do it.

Edited August 27, 2020 by Morrigan2575

[Twilight Man]

Quote

 

ON 2/28/2020 AT 11:58 PM, VCRTRACKING SAID:

Marty in Cabin I'm the Woods. Selfish ass.

 

 

On 8/26/2020 at 1:07 PM, Cobalt Stargazer said:

I dunno, I can see it from his perspective. He and his friends showed up expecting to just have a nice vacation, and they walk into a death trap.  They were dead the second they got there, and it's worse that they choose how they die. When no matter what happens, you end up as dog food without having done anything to "deserve" your fate, he sort of had a point in questioning the rightness of it. Especially when the people running the operation were gambling on the outcome:

Nope, nope, nope, and nope.   They are selfish.

This is one of those "No rewatch" films.  Just watch it one time only; otherwise, you can see the flaws.

These young adults decide that just because a small group of people were "mean" to them,

that everybody on the planet are a bunch of jerks, including the innocent kids in Japan, and everyone has to die now.

I saw the film in theaters, and I thought that they were going to sacrifice themselves just to show the one surviving person

what a bunch of jerks that organization was (and then have the zombie kill her!!!), but no, the movie picked the selfish jerk ending,

and I left the theater dissapointed.   I have seen this film a few times since, and the ending just infuriates me more.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

1 hour ago, Twilight Man said:

including the innocent kids in Japan

The innocent kids in Japan the organization wanted to sacrifice. "How much work does it take to kill a bunch of nine year olds?!" If the little kids hadn't figured out how to not get killed, it wouldn't have been so imperative for Marty and the others to die. They must not have drugged their oatmeal sufficiently, that's how rigged it was.

[Luckylyn]

Mia in Princess Diaries 2

She has had years to prepare to become queen but has done nothing.  She hasn’t studied up on the requirements and duties cause she’s shocked that her getting married is mandated.  There are traditional ceremonies where she has to do things like shoot an arrow and ride a horse side saddle which she had years to learn but waits until the last moment.  We’re supposed to root for her despite her not bothering to learn the job requirements to be queen because she’s nice to people.  She remembers the names of rich people at parties and is charitable to orphans.  But she hasn’t bothered to really put effort into what she needs to learn to be queen.  It makes the people who are working against her somewhat sympathetic because she hasn’t used the years to really get involved in the government side of things.  She could have actually learned about the country she was going to run and could have fought against policies like the marriage requirement years before things got critical. She’s a ceremonial leader but doesn’t show she can run anything.  

[Spartan Girl]

I’d argue that Mia was busy finishing college and her grandmother deliberately kept her out of the loop with the marriage thing…but yeah, she really should have studied up on everything.

For this next one, I’m probably going to get some flack for this because she’s only a child: Lilo in Lilo and Stitch deciding to humiliate Nani and make up stories about her to their goddamn social worker. She knew how important the visit it was, she was aware that giving Cobra Bubbles the wrong idea might result in her getting put in foster care, and yet she picks that time to pull that crap?!? 

Edited May 26 by Spartan Girl

[dewelar]

16 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

For this next one, I’m probably going to get some flack for this because she’s only a child: Lilo in Lilo and Stitch deciding to humiliate Nani and make up stories about her to their goddamn social worker. She knew how important the visit it was, she was aware that giving Cobra Bubbles the wrong idea might result in her getting put in foster care, and yet she picks that time to pull that crap?!? 

While she's definitely guilty of all this, I don't think she's meant to be considered heroic -- at least not in the original film.

[Luckylyn]

33 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

I’d argue that Mia was busy finishing college and her grandmother deliberately kept her out of the loop with the marriage thing…but yeah, she really should have studied up on everything.

 

I think a plot where Mia is actively trying to learn how to rule and her grandmother has trouble letting go of control is what would have worked better as a focal point.  They acknowledge that grandma needs to let go but don’t show Mia really trying to be a ruler.  She’s ignorant to the point that she lacks knowledge she probably could have found with some google searches.  Mia is so passive until it’s the last minute.  Even with attending college she could have put in more effort to learn about the country she supposed to be head of. They show off how wealthy they are and so a tutor could have been working with her while she attended college so she’s not so clueless.  Mia’s likable but she half asses things until a rival comes along. Then she finds out about requirements she didn’t bother to look into even though she had years to prepare. She doesn’t try until circumstances force her to make an effort which makes her come off poorly.  

It’s just a bad script.  There was a lot of potential. The romance between the queen and body guard was my favorite part.  I think the plot of Mia falling for her rival still works because they have chemistry. But they didn’t have to make her look so unprepared.   I don’t know why they wrote her that way when it’s so unnecessary. She could have been knowledgeable and actively fighting the against the requirements from the beginning.  That could be what her rival uses against her, that she’s trying to change traditions.  But then they fall in love and that complicates their rivalry.  He could offer to marry  her giving up his claim to the throne, but she refuses based on the principle that requiring marriage is unfair.  Then after successfully overturning the law they get engaged.  

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, dewelar said:

While she's definitely guilty of all this, I don't think she's meant to be considered heroic -- at least not in the original film.

But she is supposed to be a protagonist, and she still should know better.

[dewelar]

47 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

But she is supposed to be a protagonist, and she still should know better.

First, I'll note that I'm happy to see her qualified as a protagonist, not the protagonist (she's at best tertiary). Anyway, when I said "heroic", I was just alluding to the thread title. And yes, she probably should know better, but given her circumstances I'm not sure she's capable of knowing better without some serious counseling.