Season 14: Briscoe Hangs Up His Shield

[Door County Cherry]

Discuss the episodes, characters and guest stars from Season 14 here.  This is Jerry Orbach's last L&O season as Lennie Briscoe.

[MisterBluxom]

I hope that I'm not posting this in the wrong place. I have just watched this episode titled "Bounty" and I'm having a hard time understanding what happened at the end.

First, I just want to say that I never really paid much attention to this show while it was being made. But I've been watching a whole lot of it recently and IMHO, it is one of the finest shows ever produced. I would have to say it's actually in my Top Five list.

But about the episode. Right near the end, McCoy realizes that if he can hint that he has contacted the Defendant's girlfriend, he can get the D to accept a deal and plead guilty. It turns out he is right.

The Defense lawyer - Randy Dworkin - who I'd like to talk more about later, doesn't understand what's going on but his client immediately folds and agrees to plead guilty. The D is African American. He and his gf met in a hotel in some town in Connecticut. McCoy says that even he is "barely white enough" to be able to live in that town. Someone else observed that as soon as that lady reached the stand, all sympathy for the D would be lost and the jury would almost surely convict him. But I can't understand the reasoning. Was it because the gf was also African American? If so, why would that make such a huge impact? It seems like McCoy snookered Dworkin but I cannot - for the life of me - understand why. The entire point of the episode was lost on me.

Does anyone here think they understand what happened at the end? Why did the mere threat of calling this lady as a witness cause the D to just give up on the spot? Why didn't Dworkin - who is portrayed as a very smart lawyer not understand what was happening?

As far as Dworkin goes, I want to say that I thought the few episodes in which he appeared were some of the best episodes of them all. I really enjoyed this guy and I loved all the episodes in which he appeared. I just wish there were more of them. I think there was only three. But I'm not certain.

Thank you all for any help you can give me with this episode.

[Xeliou66]

That was somewhat of a confusing ending I agree, but here’s the explanation in my opinion : The GF was definitely white, and the defense was using affirmative action pressures and not being able to live up to the pressure of his job as the defense, and the reporter having an affair with an upper class white women would weaken his defense which relied on people believing that he couldn’t succeed in and live up to the standards of the “white” world when actually he was dating a wealthy white women. So that’s what it was about IMO.

I love Dworkin as well, such an entertaining and sharp defense lawyer, he appeared 3 times on the original L&O, in the episodes Chosen, Bounty and Thinking Makes It So, and he has appeared twice in this season of SVU, in the episodes Gone Fishin and The Undiscovered Country. His episodes are always awesome, I love his debates with McCoy.

[MisterBluxom]

@Xeliou66

Thank you ever so much.

I can finally sleep now that I understand what was going on in that episode. So many wonderful episodes in this show.

I also really appreciate your remarks about the Dworkin character. What a shame that he never appeared in more episodes.

Oh well. I'm sorry to have waited so long before posting in this forum. This is such a great show.

Dick Wolf must be an awesome talent. He developed so many excellent TV shows.  Not only all the Law & Order shows. But also Chicago PD, Chicago Fire, Chicago Med, Chicago Justice ... etc.

How can any one person have developed all these leading shows?

[WendyCR72]

20 hours ago, MissBluxom said:

Dick Wolf must be an awesome talent. He developed so many excellent TV shows.  Not only all the Law & Order shows. But also Chicago PD, Chicago Fire, Chicago Med, Chicago Justice ... etc.

New York Undercover, which was on in the mid '90s on Fox, was also his.

But, like any honcho, he had failures: L.A. Dragnet in the early 2000s (with Ed O'Neill as Joe Friday) and Law & Order: Trial By Jury (one season with Bebe Neuwirth as the ADA Tracy Kibre) and Law & Order: Los Angeles (Hot Damned Mess!).

But, yeah, when you consider two L&O shows made it to 20 or near it and one made it 10 seasons? Pretty good! Add in the international adaptions for the Mothership and Criminal Intent (and I wouldn't doubt there are some SVU adaptions floating around), and Wolf and his kin are set for three lifetimes. (I think he may have been a writer for Hill Street Blues, but I'm not 100% sure there.)

I think Shonda Rhimes is the female counterpart to Wolf, even if her shows don't grab me.

[GHScorpiosRule]

So I'm halfway through this season; I've deleted about three or four, having no desire to rewatch those.

I do like "Identity", because it was GREAT to see SHAMBALA GREEN again! And she wasn't a recast, but the original Lorraine Touissant! I was disappointed though, that she had gotten rid of the dreads. That was so much part of her. And she was also missing some of her fire.

I wanted to drop-kick the son to the curb; and wanted to see Jack and Shambala actually knock heads like she and Ben used to do!

I really wish we had seen more of her in the later seasons.

I'm so sick of Rohmbot and I'd forgotten we're stuck with her for another season. Well, half of season 15 and then she's gone. Bleagh!

[Xeliou66]

I love season 14, one of my favorite seasons, and yeah Identity is a favorite of mine as well, it was a compelling case and it was great to see Shambala again, she was one of my favorite recurring defense attorneys. That episode had a really good and complex investigation with Briscoe and Green visiting all of the banks and stuff, and the old guy Shambala represented, Lonnie, was quite a memorable character, he was somewhat sympathetic but still calculating and cold blooded. I was annoyed with Serena at the end when she said she felt Lonnie’s son was partially at fault, he wasn’t at fault at all, yeah he had a strained relationship with his dad but it wasn’t his fault Lonnie fell for a scam or decided to take the law into his own hands. It is a great episode, and it was awesome to see Shambala again. 

[Xeliou66]

Shrunk was just on, I love this episode, such a compelling case with a lot of good moments. Yes the shrink got lucky that his plan worked, but it was a good plot, and I would love to know if Myers ever turned on his shrink, somehow I don’t think he would, the shrink seemed to have a hold on him. I think Myers belonged in prison, I don’t think he was insane, I think he just killed the victim in a fit of rage, he was disturbed but not insane, I liked Skoda’s analysis of him.

I loved when Skoda calmly called off the guards when Myers got in his face, Skoda is such an awesome character. Another great moment was when Van Buren told the prick shrink “until you have more stars on your collar than I do, you can’t demand a damn thing!!” Van Buren had a great way of being forceful with pricks who tried to meddle with their investigation. 

[Spartan Girl]

I hated the ending to “Veteran’s Day.” I have no pity for someone who knows the pain of losing a child, but goes on to inflict that same pain on someone else. The guy STRANGLED a kid, but the jury gave him pity points because he was a blue-collar guy who lost his son in the war while the victim was an”elitist” anti war protestor. Fine, the kid took it too far, but that doesn’t mean he deserved to die.

[Xeliou66]

3 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

I hated the ending to “Veteran’s Day.” I have no pity for someone who knows the pain of losing a child, but goes on to inflict that same pain on someone else. The guy STRANGLED a kid, but the jury gave him pity points because he was a blue-collar guy who lost his son in the war while the victim was an”elitist” anti war protestor. Fine, the kid took it too far, but that doesn’t mean he deserved to die.

Amen!! That episode’s ending infuriates me. That kid didn’t deserve to die for exercising his right to free speech, he may have gone a bit overboard but nothing about him meant he deserved to die. The defense was basically saying that you have the right to kill people if their beliefs offend you and you’ve suffered a personal tragedy. Fuck the killer and fuck his defense, I had no sympathy for him.

[Prairie Rose]

I remember tearing up at Lennie's final episode, but still being excited at the prospect of seeing Jerry Orbach every week in the upcoming spinoff, TBJ. I don't think anyone knew how ill he really was at the time, maybe not even him. If he had lived and been well enough to work, I still feel that TBJ would have succeeded - if only for L&O fans to get their weekly Lennie fix.

[Xeliou66]

Patient Zero was just on, and this episode’s ending enrages me, the killer’s wife perjuring herself to free her piece of shit husband made me sick. Blanchard was just pure evil.

Next up was Shrunk, I love this episode, it did require some luck that the shrink’s plan worked out exactly as he wanted it to, but it’s a strong episode, I would love to know if Myers ever turned on his shrink. I don’t think Myers deserved a better sentence, he was disturbed but he knew right from wrong, but the shrink did manipulate him. I loved the scene where Skoda calmly calls off the guards when Myers explodes on him, one of my favorite Skoda scenes. Also some good stuff for Briscoe and Green, their interview with the old man who bought the fishing reel and was an alibi witness for a suspect was hilarious.

Edited April 19, 2022 by Xeliou66

[peacheslatour]

On 4/26/2018 at 10:19 PM, WendyCR72 said:

New York Undercover, which was on in the mid '90s on Fox, was also his.

But, like any honcho, he had failures: L.A. Dragnet in the early 2000s (with Ed O'Neill as Joe Friday) and Law & Order: Trial By Jury (one season with Bebe Neuwirth as the ADA Tracy Kibre) and Law & Order: Los Angeles (Hot Damned Mess!).

But, yeah, when you consider two L&O shows made it to 20 or near it and one made it 10 seasons? Pretty good! Add in the international adaptions for the Mothership and Criminal Intent (and I wouldn't doubt there are some SVU adaptions floating around), and Wolf and his kin are set for three lifetimes. (I think he may have been a writer for Hill Street Blues, but I'm not 100% sure there.)

I think Shonda Rhimes is the female counterpart to Wolf, even if her shows don't grab me.

Late with this but Dick Wolf did write for Hill Street Blues. He started his television career as a staff writer on Hill Street Blues and was nominated for his first Emmy Award for the episode "What Are Friends For?", on which he was the only writer. While working on Hill Street Blues, Wolf became close friends with Tom Fontana, then writing for the series St. Elsewhere, produced in the same building, at the same time. Wolf moved from Hill Street Blues to Miami Vice, where he was a writer and co-producer for the third and fourth seasons.

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 hour ago, peacheslatour said:

Wolf moved from Hill Street Blues to Miami Vice, where he was a writer and co-producer for the third and fourth seasons.

And like I posted elsewhere, he used the same title from Miami Vice “By Hooker, By Crook” in season one.

[peacheslatour]

Ugh, watching C.O.D. S 14, E 24. Briscoe and Green are at the post office and the clerk tells him the only thing he remembers about a specific day is that a gorgeous woman came in and he's going to call her for a date. One of the detectives says, incredulously "She gave you her number?" and the guy just says he got it off her paperwork. Gross, what a creep and he tells 2 cops and they don't even say anything.

[andromeda331]

I hate that the rich woman in Darwinian got off with probation. It doesn't matter that she wasn't the one who beat the man. She hit him with her car and drove him home to die in her garage. She knew he was alive and did nothing to help him. How she couldn't be charged at least manslaughter I don't know.  I do feel bad for the victim and the murderer. That's hard way to live. If he let the victim win he's right he would be fair game for everyone on the street. No one really does anything to help the homeless. Serena was smug as always I love Arthur's smackdown when she bragged that she helped out at the soup kitchen once a year on Thanksgiving. Like all the other so called Liberals? Or high schoolers for their transcripts. Serena's an adult and "cares" so much that she can only spare one day of the year for the homeless. Maybe put your money where your mouth is Serena. I think I did more when I was in elementary school with food drives and other things. 

I hate C.O.D only for it being Lenny's last episode. I wasn't ready to say goodbye to him yet and still isn't. As much as I liked Trial By Jury I wish they had kept Lenny on the regular L&O so at least we could get Lenny's last two episodes in rotation. It also reminds me how much I hate how they handled Lenny's death. No mentioning it, no funeral, nothing. That was bullshit and horrible way to treat a character who had been on the show for so long. Adele was so dumb she never once thought maybe Belinda was setting her up? Then again she was dumb enough to get there on her own. Buying a gun illegally and having it "stolen" without mentioning it to police and threw the gun in the river where she worked. Love all the jokes about Adele's husband being a dog.   

[Xeliou66]

10 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I hate that the rich woman in Darwinian got off with probation. It doesn't matter that she wasn't the one who beat the man. She hit him with her car and drove him home to die in her garage. She knew he was alive and did nothing to help him. How she couldn't be charged at least manslaughter I don't know.  I do feel bad for the victim and the murderer. That's hard way to live. If he let the victim win he's right he would be fair game for everyone on the street. No one really does anything to help the homeless. Serena was smug as always I love Arthur's smackdown when she bragged that she helped out at the soup kitchen once a year on Thanksgiving. Like all the other so called Liberals? Or high schoolers for their transcripts. Serena's an adult and "cares" so much that she can only spare one day of the year for the homeless. Maybe put your money where your mouth is Serena. I think I did more when I was in elementary school with food drives and other things. 

I hate C.O.D only for it being Lenny's last episode. I wasn't ready to say goodbye to him yet and still isn't. As much as I liked Trial By Jury I wish they had kept Lenny on the regular L&O so at least we could get Lenny's last two episodes in rotation. It also reminds me how much I hate how they handled Lenny's death. No mentioning it, no funeral, nothing. That was bullshit and horrible way to treat a character who had been on the show for so long. Adele was so dumb she never once thought maybe Belinda was setting her up? Then again she was dumb enough to get there on her own. Buying a gun illegally and having it "stolen" without mentioning it to police and threw the gun in the river where she worked. Love all the jokes about Adele's husband being a dog.   

Yes it pissed me off that the rich bitch in Darwinian got off with a slap on the wrist, she let the guy die, if she had called 911 they might’ve been able to save him, I think she just got off because she had the money to afford a good lawyer and the judge bought the lawyer’s arguments, I think if the woman hadn’t been wealthy she would’ve gone to jail. Unfortunately that’s pretty realistic though.

I felt bad for both the victim and the murderer in Darwinian, they both had very rough lives and were trying to survive on the street, but I thought Jack made a good closing argument about the victim deserving justice, he didn’t deserve to die, so as tragic as the killer’s story was he deserved a prison sentence. I laughed when Arthur called Serena a “limousine liberal”, Arthur and Serena just flat out did not get along much of the time, they just didn’t care for each other.

Those cops who did nothing to help the homeless guys and called them “liceheads” were very sorry cops IMO.

I thought Lennie’s exit in COD was really well done, it didn’t dominate the episode but they gave it the attention it deserved, and he got a couple of nice scenes with Green and Van Buren, and I liked that they ended the episode with Lennie packing up his things and exiting the station, it was a good way to end the episode, nothing overly dramatic but a good way to send off Lennie. On Trial By Jury they did have a scene that they deleted where the main characters were returning from Lennie’s funeral and discussing that they didn’t know how severe his illness was, I have no idea why they deleted that scene, it was an epically stupid decision. There was nothing the Mothership could really do with regards to it, since Lennie wasn’t on the show anymore, but I liked how Lennie’s death was mentioned by Green in his final episode and by Curtis when he made a cameo in season 20, and on CI Logan talked about Lennie’s death once. Lennie was the best, he’s the face of the Mothership along with Jack, I thought his exit was handled well on the Mothership but it was beyond stupid of TBJ to cut the scene of the characters discussing his death.

[andromeda331]

11 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yes it pissed me off that the rich bitch in Darwinian got off with a slap on the wrist, she let the guy die, if she had called 911 they might’ve been able to save him, I think she just got off because she had the money to afford a good lawyer and the judge bought the lawyer’s arguments, I think if the woman hadn’t been wealthy she would’ve gone to jail. Unfortunately that’s pretty realistic though.

I felt bad for both the victim and the murderer in Darwinian, they both had very rough lives and were trying to survive on the street, but I thought Jack made a good closing argument about the victim deserving justice, he didn’t deserve to die, so as tragic as the killer’s story was he deserved a prison sentence. I laughed when Arthur called Serena a “limousine liberal”, Arthur and Serena just flat out did not get along much of the time, they just didn’t care for each other.

Those cops who did nothing to help the homeless guys and called them “liceheads” were very sorry cops IMO.

Yeah, if she wasn't rich she would have gone to jail. It's realistic but stinks.

Good point about the victim and murderer. Jack was right but I still feel sorry both of them. I know Jack mentioned he was going to another jungle. But all I can think is how for the next 12 years he has a bed, clothes, showers and three meals a day. 

Quote

I thought Lennie’s exit in COD was really well done, it didn’t dominate the episode but they gave it the attention it deserved, and he got a couple of nice scenes with Green and Van Buren, and I liked that they ended the episode with Lennie packing up his things and exiting the station, it was a good way to end the episode, nothing overly dramatic but a good way to send off Lennie. On Trial By Jury they did have a scene that they deleted where the main characters were returning from Lennie’s funeral and discussing that they didn’t know how severe his illness was, I have no idea why they deleted that scene, it was an epically stupid decision. There was nothing the Mothership could really do with regards to it, since Lennie wasn’t on the show anymore, but I liked how Lennie’s death was mentioned by Green in his final episode and by Curtis when he made a cameo in season 20, and on CI Logan talked about Lennie’s death once. Lennie was the best, he’s the face of the Mothership along with Jack, I thought his exit was handled well on the Mothership but it was beyond stupid of TBJ to cut the scene of the characters discussing his death.

Well, it was well done. The scenes between Lennie and Ed were really good and with Van Buren But I still hate that its not mention for so many years and that we didn't get a funeral or even a mention of one. Something. Lennie was on the show for over a decade even though he was on another show when he died. It doesn't matter it was L&O show. We go crossovers. They could have had Lennie's funeral on the show or something. 

[Xeliou66]

27 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

Yeah, if she wasn't rich she would have gone to jail. It's realistic but stinks.

Good point about the victim and murderer. Jack was right but I still feel sorry both of them. I know Jack mentioned he was going to another jungle. But all I can think is how for the next 12 years he has a bed, clothes, showers and three meals a day. 

Well, it was well done. The scenes between Lennie and Ed were really good and with Van Buren But I still hate that its not mention for so many years and that we didn't get a funeral or even a mention of one. Something. Lennie was on the show for over a decade even though he was on another show when he died. It doesn't matter it was L&O show. We go crossovers. They could have had Lennie's funeral on the show or something. 

Yep it was infuriating how the rich bitch didn’t get locked up, she didn’t even seem sorry about her actions. She was so damn callous.

Both victim and killer were sympathetic in Darwinian, but yeah the victim didn’t deserve to die so I was glad the jury convicted, but the murderer was one of L&O’s more sympathetic perps.

As for Lennie’s departure, I think having a funeral scene in season 15 would’ve just felt out of place, since Lennie wasn’t on the show anymore and the show didn’t deal with personal stuff much, so having a scene of his funeral would’ve felt odd and it wouldn’t have had anything to do with the rest of the show. It’s TBJ that screwed the pooch badly on it, they had the scene where the characters were returning from Briscoe’s funeral and for some idiotic reason they cut the scene. I think having a funeral scene for Briscoe would’ve been difficult because of all of the characters that would’ve naturally shown up, it would’ve been impossible to get everyone together - Briscoe’s colleagues from L&O would’ve shown up, and his colleagues from TBJ would’ve as well, plus Logan who was on CI at the time, plus Munch and Cragen from SVU and maybe the others at SVU but definitely those 2, and what about Curtis. For a funeral scene for Lennie to feel right, all of those characters would have to be there, and it would’ve been impossible to get all of the actors together for it. As great as it would’ve been to see all of those characters attend Lennie’s funeral and reminisce about Lennie, it just wouldn’t have been possible to do. So TBJ had a good scene of the characters returning from the funeral and discussing Lennie, that was the best they could do, and for some reason the morons running the show cut it.

[Xeliou66]

I saw some good season 14 episodes last night, season 14 is one of the seasons that is loaded with great plots and compelling episodes.

One of the episodes I saw was Compassion, and that is one of the few times that I believed a perp was genuinely insane, I think that the stress of caring for terminally ill kids for years had caused the doctor to crack and she was living in fantasyland, I don’t think she really knew what she was doing when she poisoned the guy, I think she had retreated into her own fantasy world because the pain of dealing with dying kids had become unbearable for her. It was one time I disagreed with Skoda’s analysis, and I think accepting an insanity plea was the right move. I liked Arthur’s ending line about how “sometimes the good you do doesn’t do you any good”.

Next up was Ill-Conceived, this is an underrated episode IMO, good plot with a good twist about the surrogacy arrangement. The defense attorney, Vanessa Galiano, was very abrasive and vigorous in her defense, it was interesting how she definitely had history with Jack and Serena picked up on it, I didn’t feel any sympathy for the murderer or his girlfriend, they weren’t victimized, they were holding up the victim and his wife for more money, it was interesting that the victim’s wife knew what happened the whole time but wanted the baby so she kept silent. I liked the investigation a lot and the detectives did a good job putting everything together, I especially liked the clue that Rodgers gave them about the victim having baking flour on him but he hadn’t eaten anything with flour so it came from the killer during the struggle.

[andromeda331]

On 7/25/2022 at 2:14 PM, Xeliou66 said:

I saw some good season 14 episodes last night, season 14 is one of the seasons that is loaded with great plots and compelling episodes.

One of the episodes I saw was Compassion, and that is one of the few times that I believed a perp was genuinely insane, I think that the stress of caring for terminally ill kids for years had caused the doctor to crack and she was living in fantasyland, I don’t think she really knew what she was doing when she poisoned the guy, I think she had retreated into her own fantasy world because the pain of dealing with dying kids had become unbearable for her. It was one time I disagreed with Skoda’s analysis, and I think accepting an insanity plea was the right move. I liked Arthur’s ending line about how “sometimes the good you do doesn’t do you any good”.

I think she was too. What she went through with her job watching child after child die despite her best efforts to treat them. I can't imagine anyone not going insane after that. That would be just too hard.

Quote

Next up was Ill-Conceived, this is an underrated episode IMO, good plot with a good twist about the surrogacy arrangement. The defense attorney, Vanessa Galiano, was very abrasive and vigorous in her defense, it was interesting how she definitely had history with Jack and Serena picked up on it, I didn’t feel any sympathy for the murderer or his girlfriend, they weren’t victimized, they were holding up the victim and his wife for more money, it was interesting that the victim’s wife knew what happened the whole time but wanted the baby so she kept silent. I liked the investigation a lot and the detectives did a good job putting everything together, I especially liked the clue that Rodgers gave them about the victim having baking flour on him but he hadn’t eaten anything with flour so it came from the killer during the struggle

It was a good plot. I have no sympathy for the murderer or his girlfriend either. They both knew exactly what they were doing. He didn't have a problem with it. I'm glad it came out that they were threatening the victim's wife. Serena had some good lines too.  

[Xeliou66]

9 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I think she was too. What she went through with her job watching child after child die despite her best efforts to treat them. I can't imagine anyone not going insane after that. That would be just too hard.

It was a good plot. I have no sympathy for the murderer or his girlfriend either. They both knew exactly what they were doing. He didn't have a problem with it. I'm glad it came out that they were threatening the victim's wife. Serena had some good lines too.  

Yeah I think Jack realized when cross examining the doctor that she had completely lost track of reality - I think the toll of dealing with all of those terminally ill kids had caused her to crack and retreat into a fantasy world, I don’t think she was faking it, I think reality had become too painful for her and she became insane.

Ill-Conceived has a good plot, like I say I really like the detective work of how they tracked down Miguel and tied him to the crime, and the legal stuff was good as well. I liked seeing the DA’s finally get the upper hand against defense attorney Galiano, her defense was a crock, Miguel and Maria weren’t forced to do anything, and they just decided to get greedy and try to extort the victim and his wife. It was interesting how, after Jack’s arguments about suppressing the confession, Jack said he wasn’t proud of some of the stuff he said about illegal immigrants and Serena replied that maybe some of it needed to be said - usually Serena was uber soft and sympathetic and I liked how she wasn’t that way in this one. 

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yeah I think Jack realized when cross examining the doctor that she had completely lost track of reality - I think the toll of dealing with all of those terminally ill kids had caused her to crack and retreat into a fantasy world, I don’t think she was faking it, I think reality had become too painful for her and she became insane. 

So do I. Talking to her boss he mention things they try to find outlets but she never did. I can't imagine how she or anyone gets through a job like that. I wonder from time to time when when those St. Jude commercial air and mention 1-5 kids will not survive. 

Quote

Ill-Conceived has a good plot, like I say I really like the detective work of how they tracked down Miguel and tied him to the crime, and the legal stuff was good as well. I liked seeing the DA’s finally get the upper hand against defense attorney Galiano, her defense was a crock, Miguel and Maria weren’t forced to do anything, and they just decided to get greedy and try to extort the victim and his wife. It was interesting how, after Jack’s arguments about suppressing the confession, Jack said he wasn’t proud of some of the stuff he said about illegal immigrants and Serena replied that maybe some of it needed to be said - usually Serena was uber soft and sympathetic and I liked how she wasn’t that way in this one.

It really was. Their first theory was possible until they got more information. The defense lawyer was crappy. Miguel and especially Maria were extorting a couple and baby for money. Maria clearly had no qualms. She thought until the end she'd still win and get whatever she wanted. I also think its crap that everything got tossed because Miranda Rights were in English. It was clear Miguel had no problem understand or reading English. Lennie and Green had no reason to think it should be in Spanish. I do love when Lennie finds out says That's why he hates lawyers. Serena agrees with him. I agreed with Serena's remark about immigrants. Her comment about that being some walking when talking about the monthly checks and Jack makes a remark about walking around money. I wish I could get three thousand a month for walking around money. Refering to the TBTB up in Albany as apostles.   I love Lennie hearing how good the sweatshop was asking if there were any openings. Also Lennie holding the baby saying it was just like riding a bike and learning the baby later threw up on Lennie's jacket. Lennie just took that in stride. 

[Xeliou66]

57 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

So do I. Talking to her boss he mention things they try to find outlets but she never did. I can't imagine how she or anyone gets through a job like that. I wonder from time to time when when those St. Jude commercial air and mention 1-5 kids will not survive. 

It really was. Their first theory was possible until they got more information. The defense lawyer was crappy. Miguel and especially Maria were extorting a couple and baby for money. Maria clearly had no qualms. She thought until the end she'd still win and get whatever she wanted. I also think its crap that everything got tossed because Miranda Rights were in English. It was clear Miguel had no problem understand or reading English. Lennie and Green had no reason to think it should be in Spanish. I do love when Lennie finds out says That's why he hates lawyers. Serena agrees with him. I agreed with Serena's remark about immigrants. Her comment about that being some walking when talking about the monthly checks and Jack makes a remark about walking around money. I wish I could get three thousand a month for walking around money. Refering to the TBTB up in Albany as apostles.   I love Lennie hearing how good the sweatshop was asking if there were any openings. Also Lennie holding the baby saying it was just like riding a bike and learning the baby later threw up on Lennie's jacket. Lennie just took that in stride. 

I agree that the judge made the wrong decision in tossing the confession, it was funny how Arthur said Judge Larkin had “removed the right turn signal from her car” referring to her bias towards the defense. Miguel understood enough English to know his rights I think. The defense attorney, Vanessa Galiano, was very abrasive, and I think her and Jack had romantic involvement at some point and it didn’t end well, I think Serena thought this as well. I liked when Jack and Serena finally got the upper hand on Galiano after the victim’s wife came clean about the whole thing - she should’ve come forward immediately but I guess she thought she could still get the baby. Miguel and Maria were both awful, they weren’t victims in any way, they tried to extort the victim for more money and when the victim threatened to get the authorities involved Miguel killed him. It’s a very good, underrated episode IMO, I never see it discussed much but I really like it, very entertaining plot with good twists.

[andromeda331]

2 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I agree that the judge made the wrong decision in tossing the confession, it was funny how Arthur said Judge Larkin had “removed the right turn signal from her car” referring to her bias towards the defense. Miguel understood enough English to know his rights I think. The defense attorney, Vanessa Galiano, was very abrasive, and I think her and Jack had romantic involvement at some point and it didn’t end well, I think Serena thought this as well. I liked when Jack and Serena finally got the upper hand on Galiano after the victim’s wife came clean about the whole thing - she should’ve come forward immediately but I guess she thought she could still get the baby. Miguel and Maria were both awful, they weren’t victims in any way, they tried to extort the victim for more money and when the victim threatened to get the authorities involved Miguel killed him. It’s a very good, underrated episode IMO, I never see it discussed much but I really like it, very entertaining plot with good twists.

I agree it was a very good episode. There were a lot of good moments and funny ones. Even Serena was good in this episode. I do wish the victim's wife came forward soon. She really wanted the baby but by that point she should have realized she needed to go to the police. They already killed her husband and realize it was more important to put them away as long as possible for the murder and far away from the baby.

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, andromeda331 said:

I agree it was a very good episode. There were a lot of good moments and funny ones. Even Serena was good in this episode. I do wish the victim's wife came forward soon. She really wanted the baby but by that point she should have realized she needed to go to the police. They already killed her husband and realize it was more important to put them away as long as possible for the murder and far away from the baby.

Yeah it’s one of my favorites from season 14 - a lot to like about it, it had some really good detective stuff and strong legal stuff. I agree that it’s one of Serena’s better episodes, she wasn’t nearly as whiny in this one. Season 14 is loaded with good episodes, it’s one of the best seasons IMO. 

[TakomaSnark]

Finishing up 'Identity' on WE. Paul Benjamin's performance was fantastic. Unfortunately, it's also the final appearance of Shambala Green.

[Xeliou66]

17 hours ago, TakomaSnark said:

Finishing up 'Identity' on WE. Paul Benjamin's performance was fantastic. Unfortunately, it's also the final appearance of Shambala Green.

Identity is a great episode - I love how Briscoe and Green tracked down all of the leads from the victim’s finances, it was a complex investigation, and Lonnie was a compelling perp, one of the more sympathetic perps on the show. I liked how Jack got Lonnie to admit the truth about what happened.

Serena annoyed me as always, with her comment that she thought Lonnie’s son was partially to blame, he wasn’t, it wasn’t at all his fault his dad got scammed by a con artist, as Jack said he was just trying to live his own life.

And it was great that Shambala came back, it was enjoyable seeing her interact with Jack, she was a compelling defense lawyer.

Edited September 26, 2022 by Xeliou66

[MarylandGirl]

On 9/25/2022 at 11:01 PM, TakomaSnark said:

Finishing up 'Identity' on WE. Paul Benjamin's performance was fantastic. Unfortunately, it's also the final appearance of Shambala Green.

Yes, that was a great episode. Paul Benjamin was really powerful

[Xeliou66]

39 minutes ago, MarylandGirl said:

Yes, that was a great episode. Paul Benjamin was really powerful

Yeah like I said, Lonnie was a very compelling character and he was one of the perp’s that I felt some sympathy for, given that he was duped by a con artist. It didn’t excuse the murder he committed, and he knew what he was doing the whole time and carried out his plan well, but I did feel some sympathy for him. It was interesting seeing Shambala return to defend him, nice to see her and Jack interact.

[Xeliou66]

Darwinian was just on, this is a great episode but it always pisses me off how the rich woman got off with a slap on the wrist for the hit and run because the guy had been beaten before he was hit and was dying from the beating. The woman still left him in her garage to die and heard him calling for help but refused to call 911 because she didn’t want to get in trouble and was drunk. As Jack pointed out, had she called 911 the doctors might’ve been able to find his brain injury, operate on him and save his life. It wasn’t certain he would be saved, but there was a chance of it and so the bitch should’ve been tried for manslaughter, but because she was able to afford a high powered lawyer and because she was wealthy she got off easy as the judge dismissed all of the serious charges. Fuck that rich bitch, she was extremely cold hearted, and fuck the judge for letting her off so easy. I liked Briscoe and Green being disgusted with her, it was subtle but you could tell by their tones in interrogation they were sickened by her cold blooded behavior. 

The trial of the homeless man who beat up the victim and caused his death was interesting, this was a case where I did have some sympathy for the perp, but I thought the jury was right to find him guilty as he did beat up the victim and the laws should still apply to the homeless, and Jack made a great point in his closing argument about how homeless people like the victim deserved justice and that while things were different for homeless people, denying them justice would just show that society had indeed turned its back on them. The perp’s story was sad but the victim was sympathetic as well and deserved justice.

The cops who responded to the fight but didn’t really do anything and called homeless people “lice heads” were sorry as well, I liked the defense attorney calling them out on that.

It’s a great episode with memorable characters and a strong plot but it pissed me off how the rich bitch got off easy, unfortunately that’s pretty realistic though. 

[balmz]

well we can always hope the guy's sister sued her for  his death, if nothing else if she's rich, maybe she would just pay a settlement to her or something to hush it up

[Xeliou66]

12 hours ago, balmz said:

well we can always hope the guy's sister sued her for  his death, if nothing else if she's rich, maybe she would just pay a settlement to her or something to hush it up

Maybe so. If anything hopefully the publicity from the case damaged the woman’s reputation, as it would be covered in the press and it would come out what a callous bitch she was. I love the episode but it just irritates me how she got off easy, but it is pretty realistic as money and ability to afford good lawyers and stuff goes a long way in the justice system unfortunately.

[andromeda331]

On 10/13/2022 at 3:11 PM, Xeliou66 said:

Darwinian was just on, this is a great episode but it always pisses me off how the rich woman got off with a slap on the wrist for the hit and run because the guy had been beaten before he was hit and was dying from the beating. The woman still left him in her garage to die and heard him calling for help but refused to call 911 because she didn’t want to get in trouble and was drunk. As Jack pointed out, had she called 911 the doctors might’ve been able to find his brain injury, operate on him and save his life. It wasn’t certain he would be saved, but there was a chance of it and so the bitch should’ve been tried for manslaughter, but because she was able to afford a high powered lawyer and because she was wealthy she got off easy as the judge dismissed all of the serious charges. Fuck that rich bitch, she was extremely cold hearted, and fuck the judge for letting her off so easy. I liked Briscoe and Green being disgusted with her, it was subtle but you could tell by their tones in interrogation they were sickened by her cold blooded behavior. 

Me too. It was completely bullshit that she got off scot free. She let a man die when she didn't have too. She should have at very least gotten manslaughter.

Quote

The trial of the homeless man who beat up the victim and caused his death was interesting, this was a case where I did have some sympathy for the perp, but I thought the jury was right to find him guilty as he did beat up the victim and the laws should still apply to the homeless, and Jack made a great point in his closing argument about how homeless people like the victim deserved justice and that while things were different for homeless people, denying them justice would just show that society had indeed turned its back on them. The perp’s story was sad but the victim was sympathetic as well and deserved justice.

The cops who responded to the fight but didn’t really do anything and called homeless people “lice heads” were sorry as well, I liked the defense attorney calling them out on that.

It’s a great episode with memorable characters and a strong plot but it pissed me off how the rich bitch got off easy, unfortunately that’s pretty realistic though. 

This is one of the few episodes that I feel bad for the victim and the murderer. Everyone turned their backs on then. The homeless are treated like crap. Those two cops didn't care to help because they were homeless. They completely dismissed him. They could have at very least taken him to the hospital to be treated. The murderer is right about how it is among the homeless. Had he not done it he would immediately become a target by others. At the same time the man he murdered was still a person with rights and he deserved justice. The ironic thing is the murderer is going to have a place to live, a bed, three meals a day and access to medical care if he needs it for the next 12 years.

[balmz]

if i were the lady, i would take the rich bitch to the cleaners like this

one argument though i saw once said the one sister was a hypocrite and they hated her more then the driver, she didn't do a good job of caring for her brother if he was homeless, mentally ill and got killed and now she cares?

mixed on that take

[Xeliou66]

19 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Me too. It was completely bullshit that she got off scot free. She let a man die when she didn't have too. She should have at very least gotten manslaughter.

This is one of the few episodes that I feel bad for the victim and the murderer. Everyone turned their backs on then. The homeless are treated like crap. Those two cops didn't care to help because they were homeless. They completely dismissed him. They could have at very least taken him to the hospital to be treated. The murderer is right about how it is among the homeless. Had he not done it he would immediately become a target by others. At the same time the man he murdered was still a person with rights and he deserved justice. The ironic thing is the murderer is going to have a place to live, a bed, three meals a day and access to medical care if he needs it for the next 12 years.

Yes it was total bullshit that the rich bitch got off with probation, had she called 911 the doctors might’ve been able to save his life, who knows if they would have or not but her negligence did play a role in his death and she should’ve gone to trial for it, she just got off easy because of her wealth, like I said, I loved Briscoe and Green’s disgust with her when she said she heard him moaning and didn’t do anything, what an ice cold heartless witch.

Yes Darwinian was a rare episode where I felt sympathy for both victim and perp - the victim was mentally ill and had a rough life and didn’t deserve to die, while the perp also had a very rough life and wouldn’t have ever killed anyone had it not been for unfortunate circumstances, he thought he had to assault the guy to survive. I thought the defense made solid points, but Jack made a great point that the victim deserved justice and shouldn’t be denied that just because of the killer’s unfortunate circumstances. It was a tragic case but a very well done episode.

As for the victim’s sister, I did find her sympathetic, she couldn’t really do anything to help her brother, he was insane and wouldn’t take his meds and just kind of disappeared on the family to the point of her not knowing where he was, there was nothing she could do for him really, she couldn’t take him into her house as she had a family herself. I hope she sued the god-awful rich woman for what happened, who knows if she would win but I hope she did, and I hope the fallout from the case destroyed the rich witch’s reputation completely as people would know how heartless she had been. 

[Xeliou66]

Patient Zero was on, this is an eerie episode in the post Covid world, with its focus on a virus outbreak. The ending of this episode is infuriating, with the wife of that evil smug bastard Blanchard lying for him and getting the jury to acquit. Blanchard was truly a sociopath, he started a virus outbreak that killed a child because his mistress broke up with him. It was infuriating that he got off.

Next up was Shrunk, a very good episode about the disturbed broadway composer and his scumbag shrink. I always wondered if Myers would ever turn on his shrink and admit his shrink was manipulating him, somehow I doubt it and I’m not sure if they could ever build a case against the shrink. I liked the detective work and how they went through suspects and circled back to the composer, Briscoe/Green will always be my favorite detective pairing. The old guy who was an alibi witness and bought the fishing reel was funny. Van Buren was great shutting down the scummy shrink “until you have more stars on your collar than I do doctor, you can’t demand a damn thing!”. And Skoda was awesome as usual.

[andromeda331]

9 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Patient Zero was on, this is an eerie episode in the post Covid world, with its focus on a virus outbreak. The ending of this episode is infuriating, with the wife of that evil smug bastard Blanchard lying for him and getting the jury to acquit. Blanchard was truly a sociopath, he started a virus outbreak that killed a child because his mistress broke up with him. It was infuriating that he got off.

Both were horrible people and I hate that he got away with it. He started an outbreak to kill his own child and his wife lied for him. Those both such messed up things to do.
 

Quote

 

Next up was Shrunk, a very good episode about the disturbed broadway composer and his scumbag shrink. I always wondered if Myers would ever turn on his shrink and admit his shrink was manipulating him, somehow I doubt it and I’m not sure if they could ever build a case against the shrink. I liked the detective work and how they went through suspects and circled back to the composer, Briscoe/Green will always be my favorite detective pairing. The old guy who was an alibi witness and bought the fishing reel was funny. Van Buren was great shutting down the scummy shrink “until you have more stars on your collar than I do doctor, you can’t demand a damn thing!”. And Skoda was awesome as usual.

 

I think he will. He did find out his shrink set him up and he'll be seeing different doctors and shrinks in jail. I do like McCoy pointing that out. I'm not sure if they can build a case against the shrink but McCoy would definitely try. I love the witness bringing the fishing reel too. Van Buren was awesome as always.

[Xeliou66]

7 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Both were horrible people and I hate that he got away with it. He started an outbreak to kill his own child and his wife lied for him. Those both such messed up things to do.
 

I think he will. He did find out his shrink set him up and he'll be seeing different doctors and shrinks in jail. I do like McCoy pointing that out. I'm not sure if they can build a case against the shrink but McCoy would definitely try. I love the witness bringing the fishing reel too. Van Buren was awesome as always.

Blanchard was a sociopath and was pure evil, and his wife was pathetic and spineless.

I’ve always wondered if Myers would ever admit to being manipulated by the scummy shrink, and I’m not sure what they could do about it, other than maybe strip the shrink of his license. It would be a hard criminal case to make.    
The old guy who bought the fishing reel was great, at first saying the reel he bought for his brother should last him til he’s 80, and then a few minutes later saying it should last him til he’s 90, and Lennie quips “that’s reel’s getting better all the time!” Also when they showed the witness a picture of the guy who’s alibi they were checking and ask if he saw him at the movies, the guy replies “did he play one of the dead guys”. That interaction was great. I love the colorful minor characters L&O has had. Briscoe and Green were always so entertaining to watch, their investigations were great. 

[andromeda331]

Nowhere Man-I still wonder who Jacob Dieter/Daniel Tenofsky came from and why he stole Daniel's identity. It's surprising
that we never find out. The murder was a good one I like how they realize that Books, Biscuits and the other guy were trying
to frame Tortomassi for the first murder and for Tenofsky. I did wonder how the mob boss didn't know his underlings were going to
testify again against him. I like McCoy exploiting that no one could prove they even testifed at the grand jury because everything
had been destroyed. 

Everybody Loves Raimondos-Mitchell was an idiot for writing an unflattering portrayel of the mob. He really thought that was 
a good idea? He's lucky he wasn't killed sooner. I like the twist of their being more then one shooter in the restaurant and that restaurant owner was the one who arranged the murder. I really don't like the judges and others hanging out with mobsters like it's no big deal or cool or something. 

Evil Breeds-Good episode Anders was a cold psycho from beginning to end. Poor woman. Survives the Holocaust only to be murdered decades later by the same soldier. He was a terrible liar. First he wasn't Anders, couldn't be the same one. Then when he's busted it was him but he didn't kill anyone he was just doing his job. Right Anders. Notice he never said that what was going on was wrong or he felt sick about being forced to be a guard there. In fact the only time he showed any emotion was over being transfered to the camp as a guard. I'm glad the Judge nixed the defense lawyer's horrifying intention to insist the Holocaust never happened. The judge was a lot easier on him then I would have been though. Love Lennie's remark to Anders son "Yeah they were just following orders." His other comments were good too. "You remember the rings of Saturn? Well, these are the two rings of Rikers." Also when Anders says he was a soldier like Lennie who immediately points out "No not like me."  Glad that CEO gets to go to jail with his "hero". 

Hands Free-I don't know how the jury didn't find Eli Madison guilty in the first trial. It made no sense that if Roger had a heart attack that he would then cut up the body. I know it was inspired by a real case and I don't know how that jury didn't find him guilty either. Once your chopping up the body self-defense or it was an accident defense goes out the window. I love how Eli couldn't believe Roger was so upset to find out his deaf female lover was a man who wasn't deaf. Who wouldn't be upset by that? I'm glad they got him in the end. I love McCoy's remark about him not being good under pressure his wife goes missing he doesn't call the police, his best friend doesn't come back from a hike he doesn't call the police and his lover has a heart attack and he doesn't call
the police. I liked the mentioning of Adam. 

One thing I thought was funny. I was watching Law & Order on Sundance channel and it didn't have the usual about it not being a true story any names or story is purely coincidence etc. in front of Hands Free but did before Evil Breeds. Even though both episodes were based on real life events. 

 

[Xeliou66]

I like all 4 of those episodes that you mention, season 14 was a great season!!

Hands Free is an episode where I liked the first half a lot more than the second half, the Briscoe/Green investigation into the murder was great, I loved how they tracked down and identified the victim and then the twist that his girlfriend was a man posing as a woman was great. The second half slowed down some, and it was really weird how they were basically allowed to try Madison for the murder of his wife by trying him for another murder in New Mexico even though he wasn’t charged with that murder technically. That didn’t make much sense to me - it seems like he would’ve been extradited to New Mexico to stand trial there for his friend’s murder.

Evil Breeds is a chilling episode, the victim’s videotaped testimony about the Nazi guard killing prisoners at the camp was horrifying. I couldn’t believe that defense attorney wanted to argue the Holocaust didn’t happen - that was crazy. Both the Nazi guard and the American Nazi record label guy who actually killed the victim were pure evil - the killer wasn’t just trying to sell records, he was a pure racist piece of trash. Briscoe’s comments were great in this episode, and I liked how they tricked the killer into giving them his fingerprints. 

[Xeliou66]

Gaijin was just on, this is one of my all time favorites, fantastic episode from start to finish. Great twists in this plot, with Yoshida hiring the hitman to kill his wife and then blaming a young black guy for the crime - Arthur was great, clever move for him to do the press conference and lure Yoshida back to America, I liked his line “I love it when I get a flash of good old fashioned American ingenuity”. It was a risky move on Arthur’s part as it could’ve blown up on him but it paid off - I understood Van Buren’s point about the public seeing a black face connected to a crime that wasn’t committed by a black person, but I agreed with Arthur that they were out of options. It was an interesting situation. 
The trial scenes were really good, it was a very compelling case, I liked seeing some of the voir dire proceedings with the examination of the prospective jurors. I was really glad Yoshida was convicted, his actions were evil and outrageous, he had his wife murdered and then tried to exploit racial tension and prejudices to hide it. The investigation was great as well, I liked how Briscoe/Green pieced together how the speeding car was connected and got the plate off of the Holland Tunnel cameras. It’s a really compelling and thought provoking episode, it’s one of my very favorites. 

[andromeda331]

12 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Gaijin was just on, this is one of my all time favorites, fantastic episode from start to finish. Great twists in this plot, with Yoshida hiring the hitman to kill his wife and then blaming a young black guy for the crime - Arthur was great, clever move for him to do the press conference and lure Yoshida back to America, I liked his line “I love it when I get a flash of good old fashioned American ingenuity”. It was a risky move on Arthur’s part as it could’ve blown up on him but it paid off - I understood Van Buren’s point about the public seeing a black face connected to a crime that wasn’t committed by a black person, but I agreed with Arthur that they were out of options. It was an interesting situation. 

That was a really good episode. I love how they lure him back to New York too. They really had no legal way to get him back. I can't believe it worked since he knew what happened. 

Quote

The trial scenes were really good, it was a very compelling case, I liked seeing some of the voir dire proceedings with the examination of the prospective jurors. I was really glad Yoshida was convicted, his actions were evil and outrageous, he had his wife murdered and then tried to exploit racial tension and prejudices to hide it. The investigation was great as well, I liked how Briscoe/Green pieced together how the speeding car was connected and got the plate off of the Holland Tunnel cameras. It’s a really compelling and thought provoking episode, it’s one of my very favorites. 

I am surprised they managed to find twelve people willing to be still be objective after he had his wife killed and blamed it on dangerous and criminal New York. That was really horrible. His reason for having his wife killed was horrible too. 

[andromeda331]

On 2/20/2023 at 11:06 AM, Xeliou66 said:

I like all 4 of those episodes that you mention, season 14 was a great season!!

Hands Free is an episode where I liked the first half a lot more than the second half, the Briscoe/Green investigation into the murder was great, I loved how they tracked down and identified the victim and then the twist that his girlfriend was a man posing as a woman was great. The second half slowed down some, and it was really weird how they were basically allowed to try Madison for the murder of his wife by trying him for another murder in New Mexico even though he wasn’t charged with that murder technically. That didn’t make much sense to me - it seems like he would’ve been extradited to New Mexico to stand trial there for his friend’s murder.

That part is odd. They really don't have any jurisdiction to charge him with his friend's murder. Killing a witness would still fall under New Mexico. They also said New Mexico was going to charge him for the murder. 

Quote

 

Evil Breeds is a chilling episode, the victim’s videotaped testimony about the Nazi guard killing prisoners at the camp was horrifying. I couldn’t believe that defense attorney wanted to argue the Holocaust didn’t happen - that was crazy. Both the Nazi guard and the American Nazi record label guy who actually killed the victim were pure evil - the killer wasn’t just trying to sell records, he was a pure racist piece of trash. Briscoe’s comments were great in this episode, and I liked how they tricked the killer into giving them his fingerprints. 

 

So do I. That was really smart of him. I love him showing the card when they arrested him. I couldn't believe the defense attorney wanted to argue that defense either. That was insane. I'm glad the record label went to jail too. Sure he liked to claim it was just business but no he didn't have to found the business did he? He chose it. He also chose to go with the Nazi guard to confront Leah. He was just as racist and a murderer. 

[Xeliou66]

5 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

That was a really good episode. I love how they lure him back to New York too. They really had no legal way to get him back. I can't believe it worked since he knew what happened. 

I am surprised they managed to find twelve people willing to be still be objective after he had his wife killed and blamed it on dangerous and criminal New York. That was really horrible. His reason for having his wife killed was horrible too. 

Yes it’s a great episode, Yoshida badmouthed New York and played to the media so much that he basically had to comeback to NYC or else people would get suspicious of why he wasn’t helping the investigation. I liked Arthur’s outrage at how Yoshida had badmouthed NYC and blamed crime in the city for his wife’s murder which was actually his own doing. It’s always interesting when we see interactions with the jury. The trial was interesting, Jack did a good job prosecuting as always but I thought the defense attorney was solid as well. And I liked how Briscoe/Green realized that the killer might not have been driving a red van but that it might’ve been the guy speeding that the witness saw. It was interesting seeing Van Buren and Branch interact, those 2 characters rarely interacted. Gaijin might be my favorite episode of season 14, 14 was full of great episodes, it’s one of L&O’s best seasons but Gaijin is a near perfect episode.

6 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

That part is odd. They really don't have any jurisdiction to charge him with his friend's murder. Killing a witness would still fall under New Mexico. They also said New Mexico was going to charge him for the murder. 

So do I. That was really smart of him. I love him showing the card when they arrested him. I couldn't believe the defense attorney wanted to argue that defense either. That was insane. I'm glad the record label went to jail too. Sure he liked to claim it was just business but no he didn't have to found the business did he? He chose it. He also chose to go with the Nazi guard to confront Leah. He was just as racist and a murderer. 

Yeah the ending of Hands Free just didn’t make much sense to me, it was like they were trying the guy for his wife’s murder by trying to prove he murdered his friend in New Mexico, which didn’t make sense. Just extradite him to New Mexico to try him for the friend’s death where they actually had a case. But the investigation part was really good with Briscoe/Green visiting the fruit stand and convenience store and figuring out who the victim and killer were. 
Evil Breeds was memorable with the chilling testimony of the victim about what happened during the Holocaust. The Nazi record label guy was just as much of a murderous bigoted piece of filth as the elderly Nazi and I was glad they were both convicted. I wondered if it was a mistake to let the elderly guy testify, because it allowed the prosecution to introduce the videotaped testimony. 

[andromeda331]

On 2/24/2023 at 9:23 AM, Xeliou66 said:

Yes it’s a great episode, Yoshida badmouthed New York and played to the media so much that he basically had to comeback to NYC or else people would get suspicious of why he wasn’t helping the investigation. I liked Arthur’s outrage at how Yoshida had badmouthed NYC and blamed crime in the city for his wife’s murder which was actually his own doing. It’s always interesting when we see interactions with the jury. The trial was interesting, Jack did a good job prosecuting as always but I thought the defense attorney was solid as well. And I liked how Briscoe/Green realized that the killer might not have been driving a red van but that it might’ve been the guy speeding that the witness saw. It was interesting seeing Van Buren and Branch interact, those 2 characters rarely interacted. Gaijin might be my favorite episode of season 14, 14 was full of great episodes, it’s one of L&O’s best seasons but Gaijin is a near perfect episode.

Yeah, he really had no choice and certain never expected them say they had a suspect. The defense did a good job. I'm with Arthur. I'd be pissed too if someone was badmouthing my city especially when it turned out that he set up the murder and blame it on my city. I do like that they found it odd that no one saw the crime. They finished seeing the Tower memorial. The area should have been pretty busy. It's really one of the best episodes of the season.

 

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Yeah the ending of Hands Free just didn’t make much sense to me, it was like they were trying the guy for his wife’s murder by trying to prove he murdered his friend in New Mexico, which didn’t make sense. Just extradite him to New Mexico to try him for the friend’s death where they actually had a case. But the investigation part was really good with Briscoe/Green visiting the fruit stand and convenience store and figuring out who the victim and killer were. 

 

I laughed at the fruit stand when Lennie didn't see the point in the hand santilizer. If he made it to 2020 he probably would have changed his mind on it. 

Quote

 

Evil Breeds was memorable with the chilling testimony of the victim about what happened during the Holocaust. The Nazi record label guy was just as much of a murderous bigoted piece of filth as the elderly Nazi and I was glad they were both convicted. I wondered if it was a mistake to let the elderly guy testify, because it allowed the prosecution to introduce the videotaped testimony.

 

I wonder if he decided to testify. I can't imagine his lawyer thinking that was a good idea. He already proved to be a terrible liar with the police. He clearly had zero guilt or remorse about being a guard at a camp or being a Nazi. That would not help his case. Anything he said could be rebutted by Leah's testimony.  Not to mention that he had Leah's locket.   

[Xeliou66]

Season 14 on all day today on Sundance, I’ve seen 3 really strong episodes, this season is really excellent, not a weak episode all season really

Ill-Conceived was the first one I saw, excellent episode, really good case and investigation and legal stuff. It was an interesting twist that the victim’s wife knew all along who the perp was and was going to let him get off in exchange for the baby. I didn’t feel any sympathy for Miguel or Maria, they were just trying to hold up the victim and force him to pay more money in exchange for the kid, they weren’t victims at all, they chose to have Maria become a surrogate and then they tried to extort Zachary and his wife. The defense attorney, Vanessa Galiano, was abrasive as always and it was implied her and Jack had a prior relationship though nothing was confirmed. I loved Briscoe/Green as usual, I loved when Rodgers gave them the lead about the flour found on the victim yet he didn’t have any flour in his stomach, and Lennie’s “I think that’s what they call a clue, Watson” line, and how they tracked down the bakery and identified Miguel. I shared Lennie’s frustration about the confession being thrown out, Miguel clearly knew more English than he let on, and it was funny when Arthur said Judge Larkin had the right turn signal removed from her car, Larkin was definitely a more pro defense judge. It’s a really strong episode all around.

Darwinian was up next, another great episode even though it was frustrating how the rich bitch got a slap on the wrist for the hit and run, she should’ve been charged with manslaughter for failing to call 911, his life might’ve been saved if she called 911, but instead she just let him die, she was a callous, elitist witch and she got off easy, likely because she could’ve afford a high priced attorney in Sanford Remz. Unfortunately stuff like that is realistic, all too often rich people that have good lawyers get off easy, Arthur said in the episode that no one said lady justice is fair and he’s right. It was a travesty that she got off with probation and community service when she left someone to die after a hit and run, I hope word got out about what she did and her reputation was ruined at least. What a damn witch. The cops who failed to take the victim to the hospital were sorry as well, and unfortunately their view of the homeless is all too common in policing and in society as a whole. This was an episode where both victim and perp were sympathetic, the perp had had a horrible life and wouldn’t have ever killed anyone had he not become homeless, but the victim didn’t deserve to die either and had had a rough life as well, as Jack said in his closing argument the victim deserved justice, justice should still apply to homeless people. It felt like the defense attorney for the perp wanted a trial to get on her soapbox, she should’ve made a deal to get her client less prison time. I laughed when Arthur called Serena a “limousine liberal” - they just didn’t like each other.

Payback was the most recent one I watched - another stellar episode. Good plot with the old mob boss ordering the real estate guy to kill people. I didn’t get why Arthur let the feds hold off on prosecuting Regetti, they had him nailed, it didn’t make sense to me, and I understood why Jack stormed off and yelled at Arthur, they had Regetti nailed and they should’ve proceeded, Arthur didn’t usually bow to pressure so I wonder if there was more to it, did the feds offer help on other cases in exchange for them releasing Regetti? We saw that happen a few times and I wonder if that’s what happened here. Jack was right that if the victim’s wife had been killed they wouldn’t have dreamed of cutting a deal with Regetti. Arthur was right at the end when he said mobsters were heartless scum, there’s nothing cool or romantic about them, they are just human trash. It was tragic that the nurse was killed at the end, but good riddance to Regetti. At least they were able to put the hitman away for life and hopefully the nephew and his whole gang was locked up afterwards.

Season 14 is an outstanding season. 

[andromeda331]

8 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Season 14 on all day today on Sundance, I’ve seen 3 really strong episodes, this season is really excellent, not a weak episode all season really

Ill-Conceived was the first one I saw, excellent episode, really good case and investigation and legal stuff. It was an interesting twist that the victim’s wife knew all along who the perp was and was going to let him get off in exchange for the baby. I didn’t feel any sympathy for Miguel or Maria, they were just trying to hold up the victim and force him to pay more money in exchange for the kid, they weren’t victims at all, they chose to have Maria become a surrogate and then they tried to extort Zachary and his wife. The defense attorney, Vanessa Galiano, was abrasive as always and it was implied her and Jack had a prior relationship though nothing was confirmed. I loved Briscoe/Green as usual, I loved when Rodgers gave them the lead about the flour found on the victim yet he didn’t have any flour in his stomach, and Lennie’s “I think that’s what they call a clue, Watson” line, and how they tracked down the bakery and identified Miguel. I shared Lennie’s frustration about the confession being thrown out, Miguel clearly knew more English than he let on, and it was funny when Arthur said Judge Larkin had the right turn signal removed from her car, Larkin was definitely a more pro defense judge. It’s a really strong episode all around.

Darwinian was up next, another great episode even though it was frustrating how the rich bitch got a slap on the wrist for the hit and run, she should’ve been charged with manslaughter for failing to call 911, his life might’ve been saved if she called 911, but instead she just let him die, she was a callous, elitist witch and she got off easy, likely because she could’ve afford a high priced attorney in Sanford Remz. Unfortunately stuff like that is realistic, all too often rich people that have good lawyers get off easy, Arthur said in the episode that no one said lady justice is fair and he’s right. It was a travesty that she got off with probation and community service when she left someone to die after a hit and run, I hope word got out about what she did and her reputation was ruined at least. What a damn witch. The cops who failed to take the victim to the hospital were sorry as well, and unfortunately their view of the homeless is all too common in policing and in society as a whole. This was an episode where both victim and perp were sympathetic, the perp had had a horrible life and wouldn’t have ever killed anyone had he not become homeless, but the victim didn’t deserve to die either and had had a rough life as well, as Jack said in his closing argument the victim deserved justice, justice should still apply to homeless people. It felt like the defense attorney for the perp wanted a trial to get on her soapbox, she should’ve made a deal to get her client less prison time. I laughed when Arthur called Serena a “limousine liberal” - they just didn’t like each other.

Payback was the most recent one I watched - another stellar episode. Good plot with the old mob boss ordering the real estate guy to kill people. I didn’t get why Arthur let the feds hold off on prosecuting Regetti, they had him nailed, it didn’t make sense to me, and I understood why Jack stormed off and yelled at Arthur, they had Regetti nailed and they should’ve proceeded, Arthur didn’t usually bow to pressure so I wonder if there was more to it, did the feds offer help on other cases in exchange for them releasing Regetti? We saw that happen a few times and I wonder if that’s what happened here. Jack was right that if the victim’s wife had been killed they wouldn’t have dreamed of cutting a deal with Regetti. Arthur was right at the end when he said mobsters were heartless scum, there’s nothing cool or romantic about them, they are just human trash. It was tragic that the nurse was killed at the end, but good riddance to Regetti. At least they were able to put the hitman away for life and hopefully the nephew and his whole gang was locked up afterwards.

Season 14 is an outstanding season. 

Well, said! 

[Xeliou66]

5 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Well, said! 

Yeah season 14 is just outstanding! Not a single bad episode in the season. What are your favorites from this season? I like them all but particular standouts are Gaijin, Identity, Darwinian, Ill-Conceived, Shrunk and City Hall. I enjoyed every episode I saw yesterday, particularly the excellent back to back to back of Ill-Conceived/Darwinian/Payback.

[Spartan Girl]

22 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I laughed when Arthur called Serena a “limousine liberal” - they just didn’t like each other.

“Limousine liberal” lmaooooo that’s perfect!