Season 14: Briscoe Hangs Up His Shield

[andromeda331]

24 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

“Limousine liberal” lmaooooo that’s perfect!

I love that too. It's exactly right. She loves to bitch about stuff but never actually does anything. She thinks helping out in soup kitchen once a year is enough and to "prove" she does enough that she can claim to be a liberal. I love him calling her on that. Lots of people only do it once a year.  

[Xeliou66]

3 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I love that too. It's exactly right. She loves to bitch about stuff but never actually does anything. She thinks helping out in soup kitchen once a year is enough and to "prove" she does enough that she can claim to be a liberal. I love him calling her on that. Lots of people only do it once a year.  

Darwinian was another episode where Serena’s whining kind of got on my nerves. Serena was better in most season 14 episodes than she was in other seasons, but she still got on my nerves some, she was just too soft to be an effective prosecutor.

[buttersister]

Quote

Arthur called Serena a “limousine liberal” - they just didn’t like each other.

I don't like either one of them. Fourteen is good to Briscoe, Green and McCoy, so I'm good.

[Xeliou66]

8 minutes ago, buttersister said:

I don't like either one of them. Fourteen is good to Briscoe, Green and McCoy, so I'm good.

I like Arthur - I frequently didn’t agree with his positions on issues, but I liked the character, he was colorful and could add humor to the show and he brought power, authority and charisma to the DA position, and I liked that. No one could replace the awesome Adam Schiff, except for Jack McCoy, but I like Arthur, give me him over Nora Lewin any day of the week.

Every season of L&O is good, but 14 is right up there at the top, not a single weak episode in season 14. 

[Xeliou66]

Season 14 is such a good season - so many interesting plots and good episodes

Patient Zero is a good episode but the ending makes me want to punch a hole in my tv - fuck Blanchard and fuck his spineless bitch of a wife too. Blanchard was an evil sociopathic control freak and I think his wife was too, she liked having the power in her hands about whether or not Blanchard would be convicted. This is definitely one of the biggest downer endings and cases of justice not being served in L&O history - that evil bastard killed a child and caused a virus outbreak and got away scot-free. It’s also an eerie episode in the post Covid world pandemic, given that it deals with an outbreak of coronavirus. I love Lennie’s “what precinct are you from, Sesame Street?” line to the officer at the start of the episode. And it was interesting how the carjacking murder at the start was unrelated to the virus outbreak case. It’s an interesting episode but that ending is a real bummer.

Shrunk was on next, this is a fantastic episode with some great stuff in it - I love the investigation by Briscoe/Green and how they figured out Myers killed the woman and his assistant staged the scene. They interviewed some colorful characters - I particularly loved the old guy who bought the fishing rod and reel and who was the alibi witness for the suspect that he talked to at the movies that night, he was a memorable minor character. Skoda was awesome as usual - I loved when he was interviewing Myers and calmly called off the guards when Myers got in his face. I wonder if Myers would ever turn on the scummy shrink, I kind of doubt he would, he was disturbed and thought the shrink was the only person helping him. And I didn’t feel sympathy for Myers, he wasn’t insane at the time of the murder, he was disturbed from his childhood trauma, but he knew right from wrong and wasn’t insane when he committed a brutal murder just because he had major issues with women and disliked the victim’s controlling personality. He belonged in prison, Skoda’s analysis of him was spot on. But I wonder if he would ever consider turning on the shrink, or if the shrink ever faced consequences in the future for misconduct, I doubt his misconduct stopped, he was scum. I loved Anita telling him “until you have more stars on your collar than I do doctor, you can’t demand a damn thing!” when he got belligerent with her. It’s a great episode.

[andromeda331]

On 10/18/2023 at 5:51 PM, Xeliou66 said:

Season 14 is such a good season - so many interesting plots and good episodes

Patient Zero is a good episode but the ending makes me want to punch a hole in my tv - fuck Blanchard and fuck his spineless bitch of a wife too. Blanchard was an evil sociopathic control freak and I think his wife was too, she liked having the power in her hands about whether or not Blanchard would be convicted. This is definitely one of the biggest downer endings and cases of justice not being served in L&O history - that evil bastard killed a child and caused a virus outbreak and got away scot-free. It’s also an eerie episode in the post Covid world pandemic, given that it deals with an outbreak of coronavirus. I love Lennie’s “what precinct are you from, Sesame Street?” line to the officer at the start of the episode. And it was interesting how the carjacking murder at the start was unrelated to the virus outbreak case. It’s an interesting episode but that ending is a real bummer.

Yeah, I hate the ending of that episode. He kills a kid and gets off scot free. That was so messed up even before covid. Afterwards it's hard to imagine how infuriated people would be that he set off an outbreak. I do agree that his wife's every bit of a sociopath as her husband. He killed a kid. A normal person would be horrified by their spouse doing that not her. She liked the power but again didn't care about the kid that was killed.  

 

Quote

Shrunk was on next, this is a fantastic episode with some great stuff in it - I love the investigation by Briscoe/Green and how they figured out Myers killed the woman and his assistant staged the scene. They interviewed some colorful characters - I particularly loved the old guy who bought the fishing rod and reel and who was the alibi witness for the suspect that he talked to at the movies that night, he was a memorable minor character. Skoda was awesome as usual - I loved when he was interviewing Myers and calmly called off the guards when Myers got in his face. I wonder if Myers would ever turn on the scummy shrink, I kind of doubt he would, he was disturbed and thought the shrink was the only person helping him. And I didn’t feel sympathy for Myers, he wasn’t insane at the time of the murder, he was disturbed from his childhood trauma, but he knew right from wrong and wasn’t insane when he committed a brutal murder just because he had major issues with women and disliked the victim’s controlling personality. He belonged in prison, Skoda’s analysis of him was spot on. But I wonder if he would ever consider turning on the shrink, or if the shrink ever faced consequences in the future for misconduct, I doubt his misconduct stopped, he was scum. I loved Anita telling him “until you have more stars on your collar than I do doctor, you can’t demand a damn thing!” when he got belligerent with her. It’s a great episode.

I do think he might turn on his doctor eventually. Now that he's finally away from him, he'll be getting better treatment in prison and a better therapist. He understood enough to realize his doctor set him up to commit a murder. I do like the therapist did look worried when Jack pointed out that he could always changed his mind.  

[andromeda331]

I like Nowhere Man-from learning the ADA Daniel turned out to have lied about everything about him and we never ever find out who he really was or why he did that. He was very intelligent and he had no life outside of his work. 

I also like the mob side trying to figure out who killed Daniel leading to an old mob case. I like the ending that the boss didn't know anything about Daniel or his murder or Parenti's murderer. I wondered mostly because how were Biscuits and Books still alive after they were going to testify against him? Not only that they were doing well. That could only happen if he didn't know. If he didn't know why suddenly order Daniel's murder. I'm actually kind of amazed that he didn't have them killed sooner Biscuits and Books were both idiots. Daniel's death was suppose to be a "robbery" but he was shot and stabbed several times. But I didn't suspect the lawyer but it makes sense. The only reason Daniel would drop the case was because he had been blackmailed over his identity.  

[Xeliou66]

15 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Yeah, I hate the ending of that episode. He kills a kid and gets off scot free. That was so messed up even before covid. Afterwards it's hard to imagine how infuriated people would be that he set off an outbreak. I do agree that his wife's every bit of a sociopath as her husband. He killed a kid. A normal person would be horrified by their spouse doing that not her. She liked the power but again didn't care about the kid that was killed.  

 

I do think he might turn on his doctor eventually. Now that he's finally away from him, he'll be getting better treatment in prison and a better therapist. He understood enough to realize his doctor set him up to commit a murder. I do like the therapist did look worried when Jack pointed out that he could always changed his mind.  

Blanchard’s wife was just as big of a sociopath as he was - she didn’t care at all about what her husband did she just liked wielding power over whether he would go to jail or not. What a rotten witch. The ending to that episode is infuriating.

Shrunk was an interesting episode, and I hope the shrink did face consequences at some point, I don’t know if Myers would ever turn on him, he seemed completed under the command of scummy shrink, but I have a feeling that shrink did a lot of harm to many patients and his misconduct almost certainly extended beyond this case. That being said, I didn’t feel sympathy for Myers, yes he was being manipulated but he still knew right from wrong and just had extreme anger issues towards women because of what happened with his mother. Skoda’s analysis of him was really good and I loved how Skoda calmly called off the guards after he got Myers to explode. It’s a really good episode, I really liked the detective work and how they got to the bottom of it, Briscoe/Green were such a great pairing. Interesting that ME Rodgers was a fan of Myers, we heard a few other times about Rodgers enjoying Broadway musicals and operas, I know on CI she mentioned her and Lennie going to an opera performance once.

15 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I like Nowhere Man-from learning the ADA Daniel turned out to have lied about everything about him and we never ever find out who he really was or why he did that. He was very intelligent and he had no life outside of his work. 

I also like the mob side trying to figure out who killed Daniel leading to an old mob case. I like the ending that the boss didn't know anything about Daniel or his murder or Parenti's murderer. I wondered mostly because how were Biscuits and Books still alive after they were going to testify against him? Not only that they were doing well. That could only happen if he didn't know. If he didn't know why suddenly order Daniel's murder. I'm actually kind of amazed that he didn't have them killed sooner Biscuits and Books were both idiots. Daniel's death was suppose to be a "robbery" but he was shot and stabbed several times. But I didn't suspect the lawyer but it makes sense. The only reason Daniel would drop the case was because he had been blackmailed over his identity.  

Nowhere Man is a really good episode - interesting case with how Daniel Tenofsky wasn’t actually the victim’s name and we had no idea who he was or why he took on a new identity. I liked how they linked the case back to the mobsters and figured out the lawyer for Biscuits and Books was in on the murder plot. I liked all of the interaction between the police and DA’s, especially the scene with Jack and Anita. Also liked the references to Adam Schiff. And on a minor note the episode title was spot on and really clever - not only did “Nowhere Man” accurately describe the victim, but it’s also the title of a Beatles song written by John Lennon, and the victim’s body was found next to the memorial to Lennon in Central Park, so that was a good touch.

[andromeda331]

11 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Blanchard’s wife was just as big of a sociopath as he was - she didn’t care at all about what her husband did she just liked wielding power over whether he would go to jail or not. What a rotten witch. The ending to that episode is infuriating.

Shrunk was an interesting episode, and I hope the shrink did face consequences at some point, I don’t know if Myers would ever turn on him, he seemed completed under the command of scummy shrink, but I have a feeling that shrink did a lot of harm to many patients and his misconduct almost certainly extended beyond this case. That being said, I didn’t feel sympathy for Myers, yes he was being manipulated but he still knew right from wrong and just had extreme anger issues towards women because of what happened with his mother. Skoda’s analysis of him was really good and I loved how Skoda calmly called off the guards after he got Myers to explode. It’s a really good episode, I really liked the detective work and how they got to the bottom of it, Briscoe/Green were such a great pairing. Interesting that ME Rodgers was a fan of Myers, we heard a few other times about Rodgers enjoying Broadway musicals and operas, I know on CI she mentioned her and Lennie going to an opera performance once.

 I wish we got to see Rodgers and Lennie going to the opera. That would have been funny. Even if it had nothing to do with any plot. I agree with not feeling sorry for Myers. Yeah he was already a psycho. I still think he'd turn on his doctor. I didn't think about his other patients, yeah he probably messed them all up. I wonder if anyone ever looked into that later. I can't see Jack not taking a look to see if he could get the doctor another way or at least get his license pulled.

Quote

Nowhere Man is a really good episode - interesting case with how Daniel Tenofsky wasn’t actually the victim’s name and we had no idea who he was or why he took on a new identity. I liked how they linked the case back to the mobsters and figured out the lawyer for Biscuits and Books was in on the murder plot. I liked all of the interaction between the police and DA’s, especially the scene with Jack and Anita. Also liked the references to Adam Schiff. And on a minor note the episode title was spot on and really clever - not only did “Nowhere Man” accurately describe the victim, but it’s also the title of a Beatles song written by John Lennon, and the victim’s body was found next to the memorial to Lennon in Central Park, so that was a good touch.

I didn't know that. I don't know about the Beatles so I didn't connect it. Although as a history fan the Lennon and Lenin joke always cracks me up. That's really cool. I did laugh when Serena tried to reassure Arthur by saying Adam was the one who hired Daniel. Yeah, no one was going to care about that. Their going to wonder how he managed to work there so long under someone else's name. I still wonder about that too. How did nothing ever pop? 

[Xeliou66]

8 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

 I wish we got to see Rodgers and Lennie going to the opera. That would have been funny. Even if it had nothing to do with any plot. I agree with not feeling sorry for Myers. Yeah he was already a psycho. I still think he'd turn on his doctor. I didn't think about his other patients, yeah he probably messed them all up. I wonder if anyone ever looked into that later. I can't see Jack not taking a look to see if he could get the doctor another way or at least get his license pulled.

I didn't know that. I don't know about the Beatles so I didn't connect it. Although as a history fan the Lennon and Lenin joke always cracks me up. That's really cool. I did laugh when Serena tried to reassure Arthur by saying Adam was the one who hired Daniel. Yeah, no one was going to care about that. Their going to wonder how he managed to work there so long under someone else's name. I still wonder about that too. How did nothing ever pop? 

I liked when we got little bits of information about characters such as Rodgers enjoying musicals/opera, it added to the show without distracting from the episode. Rodgers was such a great character, and yeah I loved her and Lennie having scenes together. 
Myers was disturbed but I didn’t feel sympathy for him - he was sane at the time of the murder and he just had extreme anger issues which isn’t a defense to murder. Skoda was great in this episode and he was spot on about Myers. I hope the shrink eventually faced consequences for his slimy behavior, I have to imagine he did a lot of damage to patients and hopefully he lost his license at the least. I loved Anita putting him in his place when he got belligerent with her.

I liked the “not the communist, the Beatle” line at the start of Nowhere Man as well, that was funny. I’m not sure how nothing ever came up about the victim using an assumed name, but it was a good twist that the mob lawyer knew he was and blackmailed him over it. It was interesting seeing Arthur go and meet with the judge. 

[WendyCR72]

The thing is, though, Adam could be cantankerous. He could be sarcastic. And he could be tough.

But the Daniel angle attributed to him also made him look stupid.

And one thing Adam Schiff never was, was stupid.

So...

[Xeliou66]

18 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

The thing is, though, Adam could be cantankerous. He could be sarcastic. And he could be tough.

But the Daniel angle attributed to him also made him look stupid.

And one thing Adam Schiff never was, was stupid.

So...

I’m not sure if that’s accurate, because Daniel was obviously a very good lawyer and never gave anyone any reason to doubt his background. I guess if the DAs office had done a deeper dive on his past they would’ve found out he was living under a fake identity, but Daniel never gave them any reason to be suspicious. 

[WendyCR72]

16 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

I’m not sure if that’s accurate, because Daniel was obviously a very good lawyer and never gave anyone any reason to doubt his background. I guess if the DAs office had done a deeper dive on his past they would’ve found out he was living under a fake identity, but Daniel never gave them any reason to be suspicious. 

Yeah, I get it. But when checking references/background, I'm sure such a check could have had some red flags emerge.

So IMO, the show did the rare thing of using TV tropes to advance a plot. Not a crime, but rarely done [or so it seemed to me] for this show.

[Xeliou66]

Just saw two interesting season 14 episodes, Married With Children and City Hall 

Married With Children is an interesting case, I did feel some sympathy for the defendant given her circumstances, and fortunately a case like this wouldn’t happen today with the legalization of gay marriage. It was a real tragedy that the little girl would likely have to go into foster care, the killer’s parents should’ve been allowed to take custody, they were her grandparents - the victim’s parents didn’t even want custody and had never met the girl. The perp did deserve to go to prison as she killed her ex in a rage, but it was a very tragic case. Judge Bradley calling the anti gay law a “backwards redneck statute” was great. I felt really bad for the little girl who had now lost both parents and would likely go into the foster system.

City Hall is an awesome episode - I love the twists and turns it took and the Briscoe/Green investigation is great as always. Lennie dealing with the people angry over their water bills during the sting operation was hilarious. And I loved Lennie’s “city hall, closed to the public” line, it was spot on. Melnick was back to represent the shooter, and for once I thought she made valid points about secret warrants and secret courts being anathema to democracy, but her statement in her closing about what happened to the councilman being tragic but there’s nothing they could do about it pissed me off - obviously they can’t bring him back but they can deliver justice by convicting the man who killed him! What’s the point of even having a court system if you are just going to say “nothing can bring the victim back” - Melnick can fuck off with that, she wanted the jury to ignore a murdered man, because the evidence was overwhelming that her client did it. Jack’s closing was spot on - shooting up city hall was a reprehensible act and anger over government actions can’t be settled with violence in a civilized society. I’ve always loved how Jack has a strong disdain for vigilante justice and people settling disputes with violence, it can’t be tolerated. I liked Arthur going to the federal judge to get the FBI to turn over the murder weapon for trial. It’s a strong episode.

[andromeda331]

On 12/8/2023 at 11:31 AM, Xeliou66 said:

City Hall is an awesome episode - I love the twists and turns it took and the Briscoe/Green investigation is great as always. Lennie dealing with the people angry over their water bills during the sting operation was hilarious. And I loved Lennie’s “city hall, closed to the public” line, it was spot on. Melnick was back to represent the shooter, and for once I thought she made valid points about secret warrants and secret courts being anathema to democracy, but her statement in her closing about what happened to the councilman being tragic but there’s nothing they could do about it pissed me off - obviously they can’t bring him back but they can deliver justice by convicting the man who killed him! What’s the point of even having a court system if you are just going to say “nothing can bring the victim back” - Melnick can fuck off with that, she wanted the jury to ignore a murdered man, because the evidence was overwhelming that her client did it. Jack’s closing was spot on - shooting up city hall was a reprehensible act and anger over government actions can’t be settled with violence in a civilized society. I’ve always loved how Jack has a strong disdain for vigilante justice and people settling disputes with violence, it can’t be tolerated. I liked Arthur going to the federal judge to get the FBI to turn over the murder weapon for trial. It’s a strong episode.

While I agree partly with Melnick's about secret courts. I do think could valid went it comes to the mob or something equally dangerous where the chances of witnesses being killed is very, very high. But it's also very easy abuse because there's everything is a secret. Judges, lawyers and cops screw up enough on public record. I don't think anyone trusts the government that much. But it's not an excuse to shoot up City Hall. There's no excuse for that. Had he not done that but went to the newspapers or something he would have had a lot people on his side. No one is going to have sympathy for someone who shot up a building. The person he killed had nothing to do with his problem. He's lucky there weren't more deaths. 

[Xeliou66]

3 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

While I agree partly with Melnick's about secret courts. I do think could valid went it comes to the mob or something equally dangerous where the chances of witnesses being killed is very, very high. But it's also very easy abuse because there's everything is a secret. Judges, lawyers and cops screw up enough on public record. I don't think anyone trusts the government that much. But it's not an excuse to shoot up City Hall. There's no excuse for that. Had he not done that but went to the newspapers or something he would have had a lot people on his side. No one is going to have sympathy for someone who shot up a building. The person he killed had nothing to do with his problem. He's lucky there weren't more deaths. 

Yeah as Jack said in his closing the perp’s actions were reprehensible, in a civilized society you can’t use guns to settle grievances. The water inspector just made a mistake, the guy should’ve tried to figure out what went wrong and complained to people about it instead of shooting the water inspector. And yeah the councilman had nothing to do with him - I thought Melnick’s comment about “nothing we can do here can bring him back” was so stupid, she just wanted to jury to forget about his murder - if the bottom line was “there’s nothing we can do to bring the victim back” then there’s no point in having a court system in the first place. Jack’s closing was spot on as usual. It’s a great episode.

[andromeda331]

4 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yeah as Jack said in his closing the perp’s actions were reprehensible, in a civilized society you can’t use guns to settle grievances. The water inspector just made a mistake, the guy should’ve tried to figure out what went wrong and complained to people about it instead of shooting the water inspector. And yeah the councilman had nothing to do with him - I thought Melnick’s comment about “nothing we can do here can bring him back” was so stupid, she just wanted to jury to forget about his murder - if the bottom line was “there’s nothing we can do to bring the victim back” then there’s no point in having a court system in the first place. Jack’s closing was spot on as usual. It’s a great episode.

No it's not. It's to get justice for the victims and those who commit crimes to be held accountable for their actions.

[Xeliou66]

3 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

No it's not. It's to get justice for the victims and those who commit crimes to be held accountable for their actions.

Exactly, that’s the point of having a legal system - Melnick’s comment was so dumb - she was just hoping the jury would ignore the murder victim and be angrier about the government’s conduct than about her client shooting up city hall. Melnick is really so damn irritating much of the time. I love the episode, the investigation was great, Lennie at the sting operation was funny and I loved his “city hall, closed to the public” line, that was spot on. I liked how they went through suspects and figured out the water inspector was the target - Briscoe/Green were always great. Van Buren showing up at the crime scene was good and I liked how she would go out in the field for high profile cases. And I liked Arthur dealing with the federal judge. Season 14 is really a great season and this was a stellar episode.

[andromeda331]

On 12/12/2023 at 8:50 PM, Xeliou66 said:

Exactly, that’s the point of having a legal system - Melnick’s comment was so dumb - she was just hoping the jury would ignore the murder victim and be angrier about the government’s conduct than about her client shooting up city hall. Melnick is really so damn irritating much of the time. I love the episode, the investigation was great, Lennie at the sting operation was funny and I loved his “city hall, closed to the public” line, that was spot on. I liked how they went through suspects and figured out the water inspector was the target - Briscoe/Green were always great. Van Buren showing up at the crime scene was good and I liked how she would go out in the field for high profile cases. And I liked Arthur dealing with the federal judge. Season 14 is really a great season and this was a stellar episode.

Yeah, the rest of the episode was really good. I like how they realized the water inspector was the target. I always love then Van Buren shows up at a crime scene.

[Xeliou66]

8 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Yeah, the rest of the episode was really good. I like how they realized the water inspector was the target. I always love then Van Buren shows up at a crime scene.

Yeah the investigation was great - I liked how they sorted through all of the people who had beef with city hall and figured out who the shooter was. It was also realistic that Van Buren showed up and that Jack was at the arraignment given the high profile case. Melnick though never fails to piss me off, her comment that nothing could bring the councilman back is right up there as one of the stupidest things ever said on the show - if you believed Melnick’s comment then there’s no point in having laws or a justice system. Oh well, Melnick should’ve been disbarred a season earlier. 

[andromeda331]

2 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

 Oh well, Melnick should’ve been disbarred a season earlier. 

Disbarred and in prison.

[Xeliou66]

22 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

Disbarred and in prison.

Yep, Jack should never have gone to bat for her. Melnick should’ve lost her license and faced legal punishment for her crap. 
I was talking on the season 13 thread about how I love Dworkin and he might be my favorite defense lawyer, Melnick is without a doubt my least favorite. She was smug, self righteous and put herself ahead of her clients and ahead of the law. 

[andromeda331]

9 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yep, Jack should never have gone to bat for her. Melnick should’ve lost her license and faced legal punishment for her crap. 
I was talking on the season 13 thread about how I love Dworkin and he might be my favorite defense lawyer, Melnick is without a doubt my least favorite. She was smug, self righteous and put herself ahead of her clients and ahead of the law. 

She was the worse.

[Xeliou66]

I’ve been watching some season 14 on Peacock, it’s really a great season - I just watched Ill-Conceived and Darwinian

Ill Conceived is an excellent episode, really strong plot. The perp and his girlfriend weren’t sympathetic at all, they were just trying to extort money from the victim and his wife, and the victim’s wife wasn’t very sympathetic either, did she really think that if she tanked the prosecutions case the killer/his girlfriend would give her the baby? She knew who killed her husband immediately and she didn’t tell anyone - she was selfish and unlikable. I did wonder if when the defense was implying the victim was abusing his power and forcing Maria to act as the surrogate, if the prosecution would call any of the other employees, all of whom liked the victim and said he was a good boss, to refute what the defense was saying? They did call the doctor who testified that nothing underhanded was involved, I liked his testimony.    
The defense attorney, Vanessa Galiano, was very abrasive, and did anyone else think that it was implied her and Jack had slept together at some point? It seemed like they likely had a romantic entanglement that ended poorly - Serena basically asked as much and Jack wouldn’t answer. Serena was actually good in this episode, I liked how she confronted the victim’s wife about her obstruction. 
I loved the investigation part in this one, particularly how they tracked down Miguel from the baking flour and hat clues and Lennie’s “I think they call that a clue, Watson” line after Rodgers gave them the information, and Lennie realizing Miguel’s connection to the victim through his girlfriend after finding out about his girlfriend having a baby.  
I did wonder what would happen to the child, being raised in a rough part of Mexico by a mother who ran from the police in America. Both Miguel and Maria were despicable.
It’s really an excellent episode and one of my favorites from season 14.

Darwinian is an awesome episode as well - really good case and plot, although it was infuriating that the rich bitch who committed the hit and run got off just because the victim had been beaten and sustained his brain injury before being hit, she could’ve called for help and doctors might’ve been able to save the victim if she had done so, she should’ve gone to jail for manslaughter/negligence, she should’ve faced jail time, she just got off easy cause she had a good lawyer and money. Realistic but infuriating. Also infuriating were the lousy cops who didn’t care about the homeless and called them “liceheads” - again unfortunately realistic - plenty of cops have that attitude. 
The case was tragic, both victim and killer were sympathetic, the jury was right to convict the killer - the victim had done nothing to deserve to die, he was mentally ill and in a bad situation just like the killer, and I liked how Jack pointed out he deserved justice and that the law shouldn’t turn its back on homeless people. It was a tough case. The defense probably should’ve taken a plea, the defense attorney seemed hell bent on making a statement, but it probably would’ve been best for the defendant to take a plea. It’s an interesting case with good detective and legal stuff, very well done.

[andromeda331]

I agree with you on both episodes.

Maria and Miguel were horrible. I really don't know how the victim's wife testified for them. She said she was scared because they killed her husband. Ah, they killed him to keep the baby. Why would she think they would give her the baby for lying in court for them? She should have been more concerned for the baby and went to the police.

Darwinian ticks me off with the rich woman getting off scot free for hitting the poor man and going home with him still stuck to her winshield and letting him die. It was bullshit. She should have been convicted for it. Just because he was beaten badly before doesn't mean anything. He was alive and she let him die. No way Jack wouldn't have gone after her for murder. 

It's one of the few times on the show I feel bad for both the victim and the murderer.  It's still ironic that the murderer going to jail he will have a bed, food, clothing and health care for the next twelve years. 

[Xeliou66]

34 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

I agree with you on both episodes.

Maria and Miguel were horrible. I really don't know how the victim's wife testified for them. She said she was scared because they killed her husband. Ah, they killed him to keep the baby. Why would she think they would give her the baby for lying in court for them? She should have been more concerned for the baby and went to the police.

Darwinian ticks me off with the rich woman getting off scot free for hitting the poor man and going home with him still stuck to her winshield and letting him die. It was bullshit. She should have been convicted for it. Just because he was beaten badly before doesn't mean anything. He was alive and she let him die. No way Jack wouldn't have gone after her for murder. 

It's one of the few times on the show I feel bad for both the victim and the murderer.  It's still ironic that the murderer going to jail he will have a bed, food, clothing and health care for the next twelve years. 

Yeah in Ill-Conceived the victim’s wife should’ve immediately told everything to Briscoe/Green - I’m not sure why she thought they would give her the baby if she tanked her testimony, Miguel had already murdered her husband to prevent him from going to the authorities. Why did she think they would hold up their end of the deal to give her the baby? She was very gullible. 
Galiano was very aggressive and abrasive, like I said I thought she had a prior relationship with Jack that didn’t end well, she went to extremes to defend her client, and I couldn’t help but wonder if she was telling the truth about not being able to communicate well with her client - Miguel clearly understood English a lot more than he let on, and so him and Maria either deceived Galiano or she just went along with trashing the victim to boost her defense, there was no way of knowing due to attorney client privilege, but she rubbed me the wrong way, as she did the couple of other times she appeared (she also represented the murderous witch in Cost of Capital who threw her daughter under the bus). 
It is a great episode, and the twist about it being a surrogacy agreement is great, and I love the detective work, some of the best.

Darwinian does have both a sympathetic victim and killer, rotten circumstances just caused the murder to happen, the killer deserved to go to prison but he never would’ve killed had he not become homeless. 
About the rich bitch hit and run driver, the DA’s did go after her for murder, Jack and Serena both argued for her to go to jail, but the judge bought her high priced lawyer’s argument and let her off with probation. That was a joke. As Jack pointed out had she called for help, doctors might’ve discovered the brain bleeding from the prior beating and been able to save him. She didn’t even show any remorse for her actions. Fuck her. I loved how disgusted Lennie looked with her in the interrogation room. 
It’s interesting how there were basically two investigations and two sets of legal proceedings, one for the hit and run and one for the beating, in the episode. It’s a great episode with a lot of interesting stuff but it’s frustrating that the rich hit and run driver got off easy. 
 

[andromeda331]

On 12/28/2023 at 10:53 PM, Xeliou66 said:

About the rich bitch hit and run driver, the DA’s did go after her for murder, Jack and Serena both argued for her to go to jail, but the judge bought her high priced lawyer’s argument and let her off with probation. That was a joke. As Jack pointed out had she called for help, doctors might’ve discovered the brain bleeding from the prior beating and been able to save him. She didn’t even show any remorse for her actions. Fuck her. I loved how disgusted Lennie looked with her in the interrogation room. 
It’s interesting how there were basically two investigations and two sets of legal proceedings, one for the hit and run and one for the beating, in the episode. It’s a great episode with a lot of interesting stuff but it’s frustrating that the rich hit and run driver got off easy. 

The judge was any idiot. I don't know why he bought her lawyer's defense. She let a man die. Jack shouldn't even haven't had to point out that had she called for help he might have lived. Ah, yes, that could have happened or at least the doctors would have done everything they could to save him. It's a great episode but I hate that she got away with it.

[Xeliou66]

6 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

The judge was any idiot. I don't know why he bought her lawyer's defense. She let a man die. Jack shouldn't even haven't had to point out that had she called for help he might have lived. Ah, yes, that could have happened or at least the doctors would have done everything they could to save him. It's a great episode but I hate that she got away with it.

Agreed - the judge should’ve sent the case to trial, instead of dismissing most of the charges and letting her off with probation. I wonder if the judge was biased in favor of the defendant. It is a great episode though.

Season 14 as a whole is outstanding - so many classic episodes. 

[andromeda331]

4 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Agreed - the judge should’ve sent the case to trial, instead of dismissing most of the charges and letting her off with probation. I wonder if the judge was biased in favor of the defendant. It is a great episode though.

Season 14 as a whole is outstanding - so many classic episodes. 

He had to be nothing else made any sense. They had everything but a video of the poor man all the time in the garage. She should have been convicted of murder two. 

[Xeliou66]

Gaijin is one of my favorite season 14 episodes, it was on tonight - terrific episode, great investigation and trial.   
I liked how Briscoe/Green tracked down the shooter from the Holland tunnel footage after getting the lead about the car speeding away and realize that the shooter wasn’t in the red van. It was good detective work.  
Arthur was great in this one, his idea to stage the press conference to lure Yoshida back was clever, and I loved the phrasing of his words when he said the city was saddened by the murder of Mrs Yoshida and that he hoped the return of Mr Yoshida would be the beginning of the redress of this grave wrong and to see that justice is served - it seemed like he was saying he wanted Yoshida back to help them prosecute the suspect, but he was actually saying he wanted Yoshida to return so he could be brought to justice for masterminding the murder. I liked seeing Arthur and Jack at the restaurant and I liked Anita interacting with Arthur, didn’t see that happen much, I understood Anita’s concern about the situation, Arthur took a big risk, as Jack said at the end, but it was the only way to lure Yoshida back.       
The trial scenes were great as well, and I liked seeing part of the voir dire proceedings. It’s an all around fantastic episode.

Briscoe’s last episode, COD, is on now, and while the case was kind of predictable and routine, it was decent, the plot of two people exchanging murders has been done many times in crime fiction. Lennie’s goodbye was very well done - he had nice scenes with Anita and Ed. I liked how they acknowledged Lennie leaving several times but the focus was still on the case, and the ending of Lennie packing up his things and bidding farewell to the 27 was the right way to send Lennie off. It’s the best exit in L&O franchise history IMO. 

[andromeda331]

Gaijin-I agree with you. It's a really great episode. I love the investigation and I didn't suspect the husband at all the first time I watched it. I like the cops didn't either when they learned about Yakuza they assumed the husband knew of the hit but was too scared to say anything. It made sense. While I get why Van Buren was upset about Arthur's ploy I agree it was really the only way to get him back. I'd love to see his expression when he heard the NYPD "caught" his wife's killer.

COD-Yeah it's an okay episode. I love and hate Lennie's leaving. I wasn't at the time but at least he was going to be on another Law and Order series. But now knowing how that turned out and his last episode on that show he didn't look good at all and could barely speak. COD is the last time we see him healthy and normal and leaving the 27. It's bittersweet.

[Xeliou66]

7 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Gaijin-I agree with you. It's a really great episode. I love the investigation and I didn't suspect the husband at all the first time I watched it. I like the cops didn't either when they learned about Yakuza they assumed the husband knew of the hit but was too scared to say anything. It made sense. While I get why Van Buren was upset about Arthur's ploy I agree it was really the only way to get him back. I'd love to see his expression when he heard the NYPD "caught" his wife's killer.

COD-Yeah it's an okay episode. I love and hate Lennie's leaving. I wasn't at the time but at least he was going to be on another Law and Order series. But now knowing how that turned out and his last episode on that show he didn't look good at all and could barely speak. COD is the last time we see him healthy and normal and leaving the 27. It's bittersweet.

Gaijin might be my favorite season 14 episode, and season 14 is filled with great ones. The investigation was really good, and I liked how Briscoe/Green tracked down the shooter and then the legal stuff was great as well - Arthur’s idea was clever, he did take a huge risk, but it was the best option to get Yoshida back - I liked Arthur’s outrage at Yoshida, what he did was evil, and he needed to be brought back to NYC to answer for his crime. It was nice seeing Van Buren and Arthur interact, that didn’t happen often. 
The trial was good as well, I always liked when we got a glimpse of jury selection issues, and the witness testimony was good as well. Fantastic episode from start to finish.

COD had an average case, but Lennie’s goodbye was very well done - it was sad to see a legend leave, especially now knowing that he died within a year afterwards, but it was a nice farewell for him, it didn’t distract from the case but he got nice scenes with Van Buren and Green, and I liked how the final scene was just him packing up his desk and bidding everyone farewell. It was a satisfying exit for Lennie. It was a good idea to have Lennie as a regular on TBJ, but sadly his health had declined severely by then, and yeah in his final appearance he could barely speak, in fact they had to rewrite the episode to have the judge bar spectators from the courtroom so that the characters were all outside the courtroom instead of in the gallery because of how weak his voice was. Still it’s nice that Lennie did what he loved right up until the end. TBJ was stupid for not including the scene where the others discussed Lennie’s death in the next episode. It obviously would’ve been nice to have seen Lennie’s funeral, but it would’ve been impossible to do because of all of the characters that would’ve been there, it wouldn’t have been possible to get them all back. But this was a nice goodbye for Lennie on the Mothership, it was low key but it was acknowledged - like I said, the most well done exits on L&O were Briscoe and then Van Buren in the season 20 finale. 
With Jack McCoy exiting next week, I can only hope he gets an ending that’s strong like those were, and not a downer ending, L&O sometimes didn’t do endings well, Green’s exit comes to mind, as does Logan’s, and of course Kincaid’s. 

[ML89]

53 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

BJ was stupid for not including the scene where the others discussed Lennie’s death in the next episode. It obviously would’ve been nice to have seen Lennie’s funeral, but it would’ve been impossible to do because of all of the characters that would’ve been there, it wouldn’t have been possible to get them all back. But this was a nice goodbye for Lennie on the Mothership, it was low key but it was acknowledged - like I said, the most well done exits on L&O were Briscoe and then Van Buren in the season 20 finale. 

It's so sad that we only had Green's reaction to Lennie's death really when he left, and then Logan's in CI, and Rey in the last season. And VanBuren only reacting to Green and Rey.

 

53 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

With Jack McCoy exiting next week, I can only hope he gets an ending that’s strong like those were, and not a downer ending, L&O sometimes didn’t do endings well, Green’s exit comes to mind, as does Logan’s, and of course Kincaid’s. 

He has to leave with his belongings in a cardboard file box (when I was an archivist, we called it a cubic foot box because that's about the size), like Lennie and Ed, right?

But he better get to go out on a high note. Maybe go take over that project Adam was working on. I don't want him to lose an election or something worse.

Edited February 16 by ML89

[andromeda331]

Payback aired today. It's a really good episode. All the work they did to get Federico and the Feds come in and wreck it all. I disagree with Arthur who doesn't think the Feds knew Federico was going to be killed. Of course he was. He was arrest for a crime that should have put him away for life but instead all the charges were mysteriously dropped and he was let go. Of course the mob was going to think he made a deal. The judge should have recused himself since he was clearly bias.

A realtor/broker who's also a hitman was pretty good. Stillman was an idiot for keeping all that stuff in a safe deposit box especially the casings. Amazing how the under cover cop knew about the safe deposit box and where it was and also the gun. I like that it turned out that Federico's nephew was giving them information because he wanted his uncle in jail. That's also the other reason I believe the Feds knew Federico was going to be killed. His nephew was going to all that trouble to get his uncle thrown in jail. Killing him when that didn't happen isn't that much of stretch. 

[Xeliou66]

7 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Payback aired today. It's a really good episode. All the work they did to get Federico and the Feds come in and wreck it all. I disagree with Arthur who doesn't think the Feds knew Federico was going to be killed. Of course he was. He was arrest for a crime that should have put him away for life but instead all the charges were mysteriously dropped and he was let go. Of course the mob was going to think he made a deal. The judge should have recused himself since he was clearly bias.

A realtor/broker who's also a hitman was pretty good. Stillman was an idiot for keeping all that stuff in a safe deposit box especially the casings. Amazing how the under cover cop knew about the safe deposit box and where it was and also the gun. I like that it turned out that Federico's nephew was giving them information because he wanted his uncle in jail. That's also the other reason I believe the Feds knew Federico was going to be killed. His nephew was going to all that trouble to get his uncle thrown in jail. Killing him when that didn't happen isn't that much of stretch. 

Payback is a strong episode, fascinating case with the real estate broker being a hitman for the mob, I liked how they built a case against him and realized he was the killer. I disagreed with Arthur not prosecuting Federico and going along with the US Attorney, they had a strong case against Federico and I’m not sure why Arthur just bowed to the feds. I thought Jack had every right to be angry with Arthur, and he was right that if it had been the prosecutor who was killed instead of her husband they wouldn’t dream of letting him go. I didn’t get why Arthur didn’t want to prosecute the case, and I wondered if the feds offered Arthur assistance on other cases in exchange for not charging Federico. And yeah the feds had to suspect that the nephew would put a hit out on Federico. I did agree with Arthur at the end when he said that mobsters were heartless scum and that the public too often romanticizes them - that’s very accurate.
It’s a very good episode but I thought Jack was right to be angry with Arthur. 

[andromeda331]

19 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Payback is a strong episode, fascinating case with the real estate broker being a hitman for the mob, I liked how they built a case against him and realized he was the killer. I disagreed with Arthur not prosecuting Federico and going along with the US Attorney, they had a strong case against Federico and I’m not sure why Arthur just bowed to the feds. 

I don't know either. It was out of character for Arthur. They had a really strong case and Federico probably would flip on his nephew. They would get what they wanted without getting him killed. Why did he agree?

 

Quote

I thought Jack had every right to be angry with Arthur, and he was right that if it had been the prosecutor who was killed instead of her husband they wouldn’t dream of letting him go. 

He really did and he was right about if it had been be the prosecutor who was killed there would be no deal. That should extend to her husband who was killed because he was married to her. What? So it's okay if the mob murders spouses of prosecutors? That's messed up.

 

Quote

I did agree with Arthur at the end when he said that mobsters were heartless scum and that the public too often romanticizes them - that’s very accurate.

So did I. Not just the public in a later episde Everyone Loves Raimonds judges, prosecutors and etc. are love rubbing elbows with mobsters at the restaurant. That's the people who are suppose to put them in jail.

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, andromeda331 said:

I don't know either. It was out of character for Arthur. They had a really strong case and Federico probably would flip on his nephew. They would get what they wanted without getting him killed. Why did he agree?

 

He really did and he was right about if it had been be the prosecutor who was killed there would be no deal. That should extend to her husband who was killed because he was married to her. What? So it's okay if the mob murders spouses of prosecutors? That's messed up.

 

So did I. Not just the public in a later episde Everyone Loves Raimonds judges, prosecutors and etc. are love rubbing elbows with mobsters at the restaurant. That's the people who are suppose to put them in jail.

Yeah it felt OOC for Arthur to just roll over for the feds so easily - that’s why I wondered if there was more to the deal, that perhaps the feds offered Arthur assistance on other cases in exchange for not charging Federico. Jack had every right to be pissed, and he was correct that the time was right then for Federico to be charged. It is a strong episode, I particularly liked how Briscoe/Green got to the bottom of the case and discovered the broker was moonlighting as a hitman, unique plot, but yeah the ending was kind of frustrating - it was tragic that the nurse was killed, I didn’t feel any sympathy for Federico though, and the hitman whining about his deal being revoked was pathetic, he should’ve known going into business as a mob hitman was a bad idea. At least they would be able to nab the whole mob crew, as Arthur said, good riddance to them. 

[andromeda331]

16 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I didn’t feel any sympathy for Federico though, and the hitman whining about his deal being revoked was pathetic, he should’ve known going into business as a mob hitman was a bad idea. At least they would be able to nab the whole mob crew, as Arthur said, good riddance to them. 

I didn't either. It's just if the Feds knew letting him go would get him killed so they could prosecute his nephew. That would be terrible on their part. Especially since Federico would have rolled on his nephew anyways. I don't care about the hitman either but I would think Arthur would be worried about their creditability when making deals because they made a deal and then with drew it. 

[Xeliou66]

12 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I didn't either. It's just if the Feds knew letting him go would get him killed so they could prosecute his nephew. That would be terrible on their part. Especially since Federico would have rolled on his nephew anyways. I don't care about the hitman either but I would think Arthur would be worried about their creditability when making deals because they made a deal and then with drew it. 

Yeah that’s why I just didn’t get why Arthur bowed down to the feds wishes - he shouldn’t have - they should’ve kept going with the prosecution - Federico deserved to be held accountable for ordering the murders and they had a strong case against him, and he might’ve flipped on his nephew and they could’ve arrested his crew as well. Whether or not the feds knew for sure the nephew would have Federico whacked, none of it looks good for the DAs office. That’s why I’m surprised Arthur went along with it, and Jack was right to be furious about it. It’s a good episode but I didn’t get Arthur in it.