S04.E13: Of Hardiness Is Mother

[Dee]

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Although Lucious pressures Cookie to take it easy, she can't help but take matters into her own hands when she receives unsettling news about an old friend. Meanwhile, Tiana's new 20 for 20 single takes off, leading to an unexpected change in her demeanor. Also, Jamal struggles to rebrand his image, Hakeem adopts a new role as musical mentor and Andre recruits Lucious to help him uncover the truth about Eddie's intentions.

[wanderingstar]

I love love loved this episode!

It was great seeing Andre and Lucious working together to uncover Eddie's treachery.

Cookie's reunions with China and Poundcake had me tearing up. I'm glad Cookie stuck it to that horrible prison guard. That is the least of what he deserved.

I also love that Porsha has become Cookie's confidant.

Hakeem is still so in love with Tiana - it's kind of adorable.

The prison book club cracked me up ("We readin' the bible next time, 'cuz y'all actin' crazy")

Becky continues to look fab this season.

[Dee]

This season remains awesome.

[Apprentice79]

54 minutes ago, Gillian Rosh said:

I love love loved this episode!

It was great seeing Andre and Lucious working together to uncover Eddie's treachery.

Cookie's reunions with China and Poundcake had me tearing up. I'm glad Cookie stuck it to that horrible prison guard. That is the least of what he deserved.

I also love that Porsha has become Cookie's confidant.

Hakeem is still so in love with Tiana - it's kind of adorable.

The prison book club cracked me up ("We readin' the bible next time, 'cuz y'all actin' crazy")

Becky continues to look fab this season.

Great episode and Taraji is so awesome.  She should be proud, of the character, of Cookie Lyon, that she has given life to....I was just blown away by her performance, tonight.

Andre and Luscious were great as well.  

This season is so good.. 

[journalism16]

I am absolutely in love with this season.

[Queena]

I second the awesomeness that is this season. Cookie and Poundcake caused my face to leak tears, and it was so nice to see Luscious and Andre work together. 

[MyAimIsTrue]

8 hours ago, Apprentice79 said:

Great episode and Taraji is so awesome.  She should be proud, of the character, of Cookie Lyon, that she has given life to....I was just blown away by her performance, tonight.

I couldn't agree more.  Taraji owned this episode and that's saying a lot since it was a strong episode all the way around.

[Empress1]

Porsha's Sheneneh wig was her worst look yet and the guard's aging makeup was terrible. It looked like a mask. And my friend and I kept texting "PRECIOUS!" during Cookie's reunion with Pound Cake, because she looked like Mo'Nique did in the movie. But those are superficial things. The episode was excellent. Cookie's reunion with Pound Cake was very moving. "What else is [your daughter] up to?" 

I knew Hakeem and Chet Hanks were going to battle.

I forget: why are Tiana and Rumer Willis fighting?

[wanderingstar]

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I knew Hakeem and Chet Hanks were going to battle.

I was pleasantly surprised at how much I enjoyed their battle. And I chuckled when Hakeem made him clean up the studio.

29 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

I forget: why are Tiana and Rumer Willis fighting?

I think the theme around Tiana in this half of the season is that she's torn between focusing on her career and saying yes to Hakeem's proposal (don't know why she can't do both). Also, in this episode, I think the idea was that Eddie's trying to make her into a bigger star, and she's adopting the diva posture to go with it. I assume that is the source of her rift with Tori.

[tennisgurl]

This was another really good episode, this season has been awesome! 

I kind of rolled my eyes at Hakeems initial reaction to Shines white rapper friend. Like, yeah Hakeem, your black, and that means your always going to have a different experience than a white person, you are ALSO from a ridiculously wealthy and powerful family, and dont even have a single memory of life on the streets, the way Jamal and Andre do. I really liked their rap battle, they both sounded great, and laughed when Hakeem made him stay and clean up. Even in rap labels, being the unpaid intern is a tough job. It was also nice seeing Shine doing actual work in the studio again, and not just threatening people and arguing with Andre. 

It was also great seeing Andre and Lucious working together again. I get why Lucious is so pissed at Andre (he did try to kill him after all) but Lucious isnt really the person to be judging about killing people or treating your family well. As Cookie said, everyone in their family has wanted to kill Lucious at some point, its just that Andre is the one who actually got around to it, 

Cookie meeting up again with China and Poundcake definitely got me in the feels. And I hope the piece of crap guards wife left him as soon as Cookie got back in the car. 

Edited April 19, 2018 by tennisgurl

[Vixenstud]

Wellity, wellity….Empire is beginning to go back to how it was in the beginning and that’s damned good!

I’ma call it now….Tiana is Poundcake’s daughter!  I’m starting to believe that Serayah has donkey pictures of Lee Daniels; how else do you explain her dull character shoved down our throats at the expense of more seasoned characters like Becky and Porsha?  Never liked her and wish she would leave once and for all.

I admit I grimaced when I saw Chet Hanks on the guest star roster but he looks good and his rapping was good….cracked up ‘cause he had to clean up instead of going to the stripper club.

Last week was all Terrence Howard and this week was all Taraji!  From her reunion with Poundcake to putting the fit bracelet on Porsha to her ratting the rapist guard out to his wife, she kicked ass!  I still don’t like the way Cookie talks to Porsha , but….

[Empress1]

2 minutes ago, Vixenstud said:

Wellity, wellity….Empire is beginning to go back to how it was in the beginning and that’s damned good!

I’ma call it now….Tiana is Poundcake’s daughter!  I’m starting to believe that Serayah has donkey pictures of Lee Daniels; how else do you explain her dull character shoved down our throats at the expense of more seasoned characters like Becky and Porsha?  Never liked her and wish she would leave once and for all.

I admit I grimaced when I saw Chet Hanks on the guest star roster but he looks good and his rapping was good….cracked up ‘cause he had to clean up instead of going to the stripper club.

Last week was all Terrence Howard and this week was all Taraji!  From her reunion with Poundcake to putting the fit bracelet on Porsha to her ratting the rapist guard out to his wife, she kicked ass!  I still don’t like the way Cookie talks to Porsha , but….

She must have an excellent agent. She gets great billing and is, real talk, a completely unimportant character.

[Margohill]

11 minutes ago, Vixenstud said:

Wellity, wellity….Empire is beginning to go back to how it was in the beginning and that’s damned good!

That sums it all for me. This episode was awesome. I was touched and I had almost forgotten how well Empire writers could write, but this episode was beyond awesome!!!

The wrist-watch Lucious gave her to monitor her activities was awesome!!! 

The scene with Cookie in Poundcake's room was touching. I couldn't hold back tears. The memories of their time in jail, despite all their differences, they knew they shared one bond=they had all been through a lot together and the Cookie in S1 RESURFACED and did what she does best. Take good care of those she loves. That is one of the most touching scenes Empire has ever had. Confronting that prison guard at his home was unexpected but brilliant. Of course you know Cookie couldn't leave without exposing him to his wife. GOOD!

Lucious and Andre working together was a breath of fresh air. Isn't it nice to see father and son working together to protect their company? Andre responded to Lucious brilliantly when he confronted him. The fact that Andre could remember exactly the date/time when he was diagnosed says a lot. From that moment on, he knew his father had started looking at him as damaged goods. I'm glad he reminded Lucious that he was also damaged, a sociopath to be exact. Good one Andre.

I don't know what's going on with Tiana. How hard does she have to work to please Eddie? She will break down before she knows it. I hope she wakes up before Eddie takes her for a ride. You would think that with her respect for Cookie she would have run to her for advice. SMH

Looks like Tori is on pills again and I don't like Jamal hanging out with her. She could be a bad influence on him.

Overall, this was excellent. Very well written and acted. 9/10

[journalism16]

2 hours ago, Empress1 said:

She must have an excellent agent. She gets great billing and is, real talk, a completely unimportant character.

She probably does, I'm sure. But why do you think Tiana is an unimportant character?

[Dee]

Trai is great but Andre has gotta go. ASAP.

[Biggie B]

So, did Becky actually go through with having an abortion??? If so - good. I truly thought the network would not permit the show to have that happen. I thought that Becky would either have a very conveniently timed miscarriage, or would suddenly have a change of mind, as so often happens in almost all tv shows/soap operas. I wonder if Becky's relationship with J Poppa will be examined further, especially if she did end the pregnancy, in light of his religious beliefs. 

Agree with what's already been said - that Cookie was amazing this episode. The scene with Poundcake was so powerfully well done by both actresses. I hope Cookie can find the daughter. 

I've always liked Tiana and I hope that she does not crash and burn. I'm sort of OK with her not accepting Hakeem's proposal, although I do like the two of them together. In past episodes, I sort of felt that she was the more mature of the two, and helped keep Hakeem on an even keel. But I also get why she said no - that she wants to focus on her career - but also feel she could have said yes. Just because you get engaged doesn't mean you have to get married five minutes later. They could get engaged and then leave things be as they both work hard on their music. They're both still very, very young. No need to rush into marriage. It could be argued either way. Right now, Tiana seems to be lacking any sort of confidence and is over compensating by treating those around her like crap and being a diva (in a bad way). I don't know why she and Tori are hostile to each other - can't they both be superstars at the same time? Is their target audience the same? Can't one record label have a ton of major stars? 

Worried about Jamal. Seems like something's going to blow up in his face.

Overall, a really good episode and I was sorry to see it end.

[MyAimIsTrue]

On ‎4‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 9:14 AM, Empress1 said:

the guard's aging makeup was terrible. It looked like a mask.

The actor who played the corrections officer died in February.  I don't know when this episode was filmed but maybe it was a different person all together?

[crowceilidh]

When the bunch of guys went off to the stripper club I think someone said something about seeing a girl called "Cinnamon" there and I immediately thought it would be Poundcake's daughter and we'd have strip club scenes.  Regardless of how my brain was putting together the possibilities, would Poundcake's daughter be old enough to be in that kinda situation? 

[After7Only]

On 4/19/2018 at 8:14 AM, Empress1 said:

 And my friend and I kept texting "PRECIOUS!" during Cookie's reunion with Pound Cake, because she looked like Mo'Nique did in the movie. But those are superficial things. The episode was excellent. Cookie's reunion with Pound Cake was very moving. "What else is [your daughter] up to?" 

 

I think that was on purpose.  They were reading Push in the book club scene, which is the book Precious was based on.  Someone said the mother was evil, but Cookie said something along the lines of the mother wasn’t evil just hurt.   

[jhlipton]

On 4/19/2018 at 6:14 AM, Empress1 said:

I knew Hakeem and Chet Hanks were going to battle.

And an epic battle it was too.  I don't much care for the standard "I'mma kill you and all your friends" rep songs, but the lyrics in this one: "You got ya whole style from a BET season" "You got the swag of an undercover cop" were brilliant.

On 4/20/2018 at 5:40 AM, Biggie B said:

So, did Becky actually go through with having an abortion???

I was kind of mad that they didn't even give her a line with Jamal to address it.

14 hours ago, crowceilidh said:

When the bunch of guys went off to the stripper club I think someone said something about seeing a girl called "Cinnamon" there and I immediately thought it would be Poundcake's daughter and we'd have strip club scenes.  Regardless of how my brain was putting together the possibilities, would Poundcake's daughter be old enough to be in that kinda situation? 

Poundcake's daughter would be old enough for college, so probably over 18 and old enough to be a stripper.

[thuganomics85]

There are times I think I would actually enjoy an Orange is the New Black-like show featuring Cookie and her prison mates!  Really enjoying these flashbacks overall and how Cookie didn't just survive it, but made relationships and even friends there.  Glad she and Poundcake made peace and she's now going to try and find her daughter.  Glad she also was able to get some revenge on the psycho prison guard as well.  Didn't know that James Colby passed away though, which is sad since while his character is the worst, he's always been one of those solid character actors, who pops up in various shows.

Wait, so the white rapper that Hakeem is "mentoring" is Tom Hanks' rapper son, that I've always heard about?!  That is awesome!  I know I probably should be annoyed about nepotism and whatnot (between him and Rumer Willis), but I kind of get a kick out of it here, and, hey, if they fit the roles, I won't complain.

Fun seeing Lucious and Andre team up, because after all, the only thing that can make Lucious put aside the whole "You tried to blow me up!" issue for a minute, is saving Empire.  Although I almost feel bad that everyone is still acting like Andre just took the car out for joyride or blew through their lifesavings, instead, you know, trying to kill Lucious.

As someone who has always liked Tiana, I for one, am glad she is getting a more prominent role finally.  I do worry that she's just going to end up being collateral damage in Eddie's attempt to take over Empire, but I'll enjoy it while I can.

I like Jamal's new song, but I find it totally believable that it would be on those cases where his longterm fans will push back against it, and want him to "stay in his lane."

[jhlipton]

10 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

I almost feel bad that everyone is still acting like Andre just took the car out for joyride or blew through their lifesavings, instead, you know, trying to kill Lucious.

Meh.  As Cookie said, there isn't one of them that hasn't wanted to kill Luscious, and with good reason.

[Dee]

The difference is that, however bad they may have wanted to kill Lucious, they didn't (except Cookie & that was under very specific circumstances).

The fact that they continually forgive & absolve Andre when he constantly throws them under the bus, is frankly ridiculous.

Edited April 22, 2018 by Dee

[Margohill]

21 hours ago, Dee said:

The difference is that, however bad they may have wanted to kill Lucious, they didn't (except Cookie & that was under very specific circumstances).

No "specific circumstance" is ever an acceptable reason to murder anyone. Murder is murder and it is a crime. No one should be given a pass for attempting murder due to "specific circumstances."

A lot of people feel this way about Andre because of the feelings they have garnered for him over the course of these seasons as his own storyline has played out. There is GOOD REASON why  the vast majority of the audience feel empathy for Andre.

If he gets killed off, I won't be surprised. The character has been put through the grinder and only has he finally been able the breath some fresh air but who knows how long that will last?

Looking forward to the next episode.

[Dee]

18 minutes ago, Margohill said:

No "specific circumstance" is ever an acceptable reason to murder anyone.

Apparently it is, since you continue to rationalize why it was acceptable for Andre to do just that.

[Margohill]

15 minutes ago, Dee said:

Apparently it is, since you continue to rationalize why it was acceptable for Andre to do just that.

I assumed I meant I UNDERSTOOD why Andre attempted what he did. It's not the same as "acceptable". A crime is a crime.

[darkestboy]

Not a bad episode. The main plot with Cookie and Poundcake was actually pretty effecting. Never thought about Tiana being a possible daughter, until I read the comments here. Maybe but likely it's also a new character to be introduced to the series.

Tiana might want to listen to other people, considering how annoying her diva behaviour was here. Jamal also didn't fare well in this episode too.

I liked Lucious and Andre working together to undermine Eddie and Celeste.

Hakeem's rap battle with Blake was the music highlight of the episode, 7/10

[Dee]

On 4/23/2018 at 11:26 AM, Margohill said:

I assumed I meant I UNDERSTOOD why Andre attempted what he did. It's not the same as "acceptable".

You said no "specific circumstance" is ever an acceptable reason to murder anyone.

Yet now you're saying you understood the specific reasons why Andre did what he did, however if, as you say, a "crime is a crime" then Andre's specific reasons are totally irrelevant.

[kiki17]

On 2018/4/22 at 2:43 PM, jhlipton said:

And an epic battle it was too.  I don't much care for the standard "I'mma kill you and all your friends" rep songs, but the lyrics in this one: "You got ya whole style from a BET season" "You got the swag of an undercover cop" were brilliant.

I was kind of mad that they didn't even give her a line with Jamal to address it.

Poundcake's daughter would be old enough for college, so probably over 18 and old enough to be a stripper.

"You got ya whole style from a BET season"

"You got the swag of an undercover cop or a plumber or an opp"

"no wonder you got the floor covered, you a mop! "

Can you explain what those mean? I don't understand rap lyrics.

Edited April 27, 2018 by kiki17

[jhlipton]

BET (Black Entertainment Network) is a general audience network, and as such, doesn't play the more hardcore rap that Hakeem does.  He's saying that the other rappers lyrics are mild.

"Swag" is short for swagger.  He's saying the other rapper doesn't walk like He's dangerous -- He's like someone playing a part ("undercover cop") or not in the rap scene at all ("plumber").  I'm not sure about "op".

"Having the floor covered" is taking control of an area.  The only way the other rapper can cover the floor is by being a mop.

[kiki17]

On 2018/4/27 at 5:01 PM, jhlipton said:

BET (Black Entertainment Network) is a general audience network, and as such, doesn't play the more hardcore rap that Hakeem does.  He's saying that the other rappers lyrics are mild.

"Swag" is short for swagger.  He's saying the other rapper doesn't walk like He's dangerous -- He's like someone playing a part ("undercover cop") or not in the rap scene at all ("plumber").  I'm not sure about "op".

"Having the floor covered" is taking control of an area.  The only way the other rapper can cover the floor is by being a mop.

Thank you so much!