S19.E18: Service

[ChristiKRN]

13 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

That must have been the point, but, wow, I could not figure out where that plot was going until reading your post, @ForeverAlone. I thought for sure this was the beginning of another Amanda And Her Issues arc.

I have a feeling this is not the end of the Rollins and her issues arc; I think I read that the next episode after the Alex Cabot guest -starring episode is a Rollins-centric episode.  I believe it is called "The Book of Esther", with the base storyline being about a father kidnapping his daughter.  Knowing that SVU is notorious for tying in the storyline to personal drama <shocked face> ,  it makes me wonder if there is going to be some sort of issue involving Jesse and her dad.  There were pictures floating around online of the little girls who play Jesse on set while they were filming this episode.  No Declan sightings that I'm aware of but they might be keeping that under wraps like they did with his last couple of appearances.  What make me think of this was I just saw that Julie Martin posted a TBT pic of her and Donal Logue on Twitter; probably just a coincidence but it made me wonder.  Yes...I have a vivid imagination :).

I still don't understand why the youngest Army guy would have preferred to take  the rap for rape over telling the truth about his superior.  I understand that there is a brotherhood  amongst people who serve together, but this is taking it to a whole new extreme.  I hope Stone threw the book at him for perjury.  Wouldn't his Army career be over If he got convicted for this?

Still can't get over how despicable Rollins was in this episode.  She sunk to a new low this week. 

Edited April 15, 2018 by ChristiKRN

[shapeshifter]

40 minutes ago, ChristiKRN said:

I still don't understand why the youngest Army guy would have preferred to take  the rap for rape over telling the truth about his superior.  I understand that there is a brotherhood  amongst people who serve together, but this is taking it to a whole new extreme

I assumed the young Army guy was intimidated by his superior officer, as well as the institution of hierarchy, but that could be wrong.

[ForeverAlone]

The funny thing is, SSG (the rank of the rapist) is not some senior rank. It is a mid grade rank. He wasn't an officer or anything. These men have a commander somewhere (who really should have been involved in this episode, because if three people from one unit are arrested, you can better believe their commander would be informed), so it's not like the lying, crying private would have been hung out to dry if he had testified honestly. As it is, I do hope he is convicted of perjury, and yes, he would likely be dishonorably discharged from the military if that happened. 

[Xeliou66]

Yeah I think the younger officer was intimidated by his superior and brainwashed by the Army’s culture of respect for authority. I do hope Stone threw the book at him. 

Rollins has always been a wild card who’s somewhat unprofessional, so I’m really not surprised by her behavior, although it was despicable. I’ve been more irritated by how all over the map Carisi has been this season. I’m not looking forward to the Rollins episode this season, especially since Peter Stone won’t be in it.

[The Mighty Peanut]

On 4/11/2018 at 9:52 PM, dttruman said:

Holy cow, when did Rollins become so cynical and callous concerning prostitutes? Last season when they investigated a rape against an "athlete / prostitute", she was all sympathetic. Now she takes major 180.

Right? The prostitute’s assessment of her as a total bitch was spot on. You would think she could keep it together enough not to refer to a rape victim as a “useless waste of skin”. JEEZ. 

[dttruman]

10 hours ago, ChristiKRN said:

I still don't understand why the youngest Army guy would have preferred to take  the rap for rape over telling the truth about his superior.  I understand that there is a brotherhood  amongst people who serve together, but this is taking it to a whole new extreme.  I hope Stone threw the book at him for perjury.  Wouldn't his Army career be over If he got convicted for this?

This is one of those moments where the writers (and or producers) like to fudge things a little to fit their somewhat improbable story line. I think a military investigation would have revealed the truth if the youngest Army guy was questioned by higher ranking investigators. The SVU series has more or less portrayed the military as the bad guy or as incompetent over the years.

[dttruman]

For what it is worth. I found this on IMdB, concerning this SVU episode under the catergory of "Goofs". I don't know how accurate this is, but it seems to make a lot of sense. I questioned the wearing of military fatigues in a previous comment concerning the ending of this episode, but this person made some keener observations.

"The scene at the end of the trial when the assembled soldiers in the gallery salute Sgt. Preston contains multiple violations of military rules for decorum.

First, the soldiers are wearing their field caps in a courtroom. This is extremely disrespectful. Any soldier would know to remove his field cap in any building, especially in a formal setting like a court of law.

Second, although the soldiers' collective salute is supposed to appear respectful, it is actually disrespectful, as Sgt. Preston is not a commissioned officer, so he should not be saluted in the first place. Privates saluting an NCO is considered rude, for it can be interpreted as a cynical reminder that the sergeant is not, in fact, a commissioned officer.

Finally, even if the salute were appropriate (e.g., if Preston were a commissioned officer), he would not be saluted indoors. Again, this is an obvious violation of military protocol."

Edited April 15, 2018 by dttruman

[ForeverAlone]

Yeah, all of those things listed are incorrect. The salute is definitely off, because yeah, enlisted soldiers don't salute each other, even more higher ranking enlisted soldiers. Plus service members don't wear headgear indoors except for a couple instances. It's not even a matter of respect, but rather military protocol that prohibits the wearing of headgear indoors. SVU always wants to portray the military in a vacuum when it comes to showing military rapists, but again, these men have commanders and they would have some involvement. But that would have meant changing things to be more realistic (i.e. the lying, crying private perjuring himself and SGT Preston somehow being secretly transgender with no one knowing his secret), rather than the story they chose to tell. 

[TV Anonymous]

7 hours ago, ForeverAlone said:

Yeah, all of those things listed are incorrect. The salute is definitely off, because yeah, enlisted soldiers don't salute each other, even more higher ranking enlisted soldiers. Plus service members don't wear headgear indoors except for a couple instances. It's not even a matter of respect, but rather military protocol that prohibits the wearing of headgear indoors. SVU always wants to portray the military in a vacuum when it comes to showing military rapists, but again, these men have commanders and they would have some involvement. But that would have meant changing things to be more realistic (i.e. the lying, crying private perjuring himself and SGT Preston somehow being secretly transgender with no one knowing his secret), rather than the story they chose to tell. 

As well, has the Army relaxed the grooming standards for non-SOCOM soldiers?

[ForeverAlone]

SGT Preston's beard also caught my eye. GENERALLY speaking, there is still a ban against beards. However, sometimes you see African American service members receive shaving profiles (I think due to skin issues from shaving or something), so they are allowed to have very trimmed beards. I'm not sure if that is just on a temporary basis or permanent, but I have seen it on occasion (though it is still rather rare). I'm just going to assume that is what was going on with SGT Preston (and I"m being generous here, because I really don't think the writers put any thought into that whatsoever), because otherwise, no he should not have had a beard. 

[Kel Varnsen]

On 4/12/2018 at 3:37 PM, Xeliou66 said:

 wished we had seen more of the hotel manager Grigor, Wayne Knight was seriously underused! 

I was honestly shocked he wasn't the rapist at the end due to some surprise twist because he was the most famous guest star, and because he was Newman. 

On 4/14/2018 at 8:39 PM, ChristiKRN said:

I still don't understand why the youngest Army guy would have preferred to take  the rap for rape over telling the truth about his superior.  I understand that there is a brotherhood  amongst people who serve together, but this is taking it to a whole new extreme.  I hope Stone threw the book at him for perjury.  Wouldn't his Army career be over If he got convicted for this?

I think they had him believing that if he made claims against the Staff Sgt, and they weren't substantiated by anyone else  it could be considered him spreading lies about superiors.

13 hours ago, dttruman said:

Finally, even if the salute were appropriate (e.g., if Preston were a commissioned officer), he would not be saluted indoors. Again, this is an obvious violation of military protocol."

I was wondering about that. I know in the Canadian military service people will only salute each other if headgear is being worn, and that it is only warn outdoors, so I was curious if the US was somehow different or not.

Also did anyone think it was kind of weird that after Skye gave Benson the money clip, she gave back the cash. Couldn't fingerprints on that cash been the substantiating evidence she needed?

[spunky]

The writing for Rollins has gone down the drain. Rollins who in the past was supportive of a prostitute, is now a judgemental shrew. Her attitude should have gotten her removed from the case. I'm still not into Peter Stone, didn't like him on Justice either. At least Benson wasn't as annoying.

[dttruman]

16 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I was honestly shocked he wasn't the rapist at the end due to some surprise twist because he was the most famous guest star, and because he was Newman. 

Agreed! Or I thought he would be more involved in the story line. Usually the more notable stars get that. Since both shows appeared on NBC, I wonder if NBC called in a favor or if Wayne Knight lives in New York, maybe he was just doing them a favor by filling in at the last minute.

Edited April 16, 2018 by dttruman

[Kel Varnsen]

21 hours ago, spunky said:

The writing for Rollins has gone down the drain. Rollins who in the past was supportive of a prostitute, is now a judgemental shrew. Her attitude should have gotten her removed from the case. 

Except when in the entire history of SVU has anyone actually been removed themselves from a case, or been really effectively removed by their boss because they have had too much of a personal connection to it?

[Xeliou66]

30 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Except when in the entire history of SVU has anyone actually been removed themselves from a case, or been really effectively removed by their boss because they have had too much of a personal connection to it?

I remember in Ripped, Cragen rightfully berated Stabler after the son of his old partner was charged with assault and he suggested the girl might not want to press charges, Cragen told Stabler to go home and said “get your ass out of my sight before I do something we both regret!” It was an awesome moment for Cragen. 

[spunky]

1 hour ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Except when in the entire history of SVU has anyone actually been removed themselves from a case, or been really effectively removed by their boss because they have had too much of a personal connection to it?

Valid point.

[JeezumCrow]

19 hours ago, dttruman said:

Agreed! Or I thought he would be more involved in the story line. Usually the more notable stars get that. Since both shows appeared on NBC, I wonder if NBC called in a favor or if Wayne Knight lives in New York, maybe he was just doing them a favor by filling in at the last minute.

I also assumed he would be the perp but I was thrilled that he wasn’t (even though I would have enjoyed seeing more of him in the episode). I find it boring when you can figure it who the perp is immediately just because it’s the biggest name guest star. 

[millennium]

I thought the young woman who played Sky/Sandy was very good.

As a transgender person, I'm sick and tired of SVU's "surprise!  he/she's transgender!" plots.   It perpetuates the social phobia that transgender people are trying to deceive the public by seeming to be one thing while really another.   And whether the writers meant to or not, they knee-capped the idea that a transgender man is a man by outing him with female DNA.    In the old days of television, the climactic reveal was always accomplished by the hero pulling off somebody's wig.   SVU's version of that is the "gotcha" DNA test.

[QueenMab]

Millennium....You are not alone on this board. There are many of us who feel this show has never really gotten the hang of portraying members of the LGBTQ+ community in a non-stereotypical light. First and most annoying....whatever crime they are involved with is always because of and hinges on their sexual orientation. Including, as you stated, "the big reveal"...TA DA! They're really gay, or transgender, used to be a man or a woman or a freaking kangaroo, and therefore they are liars, pretending, deceiving people, and so their testimony is lying crap. "Dissonant Voices" is a real sore spot with us for example. The singing coach was gay, so of course he's a sick pervert with young children. Plus, they ruined his career and life and the show let the SVU squad totally skate on that and justified it all with the now tired and downright silly explanation " we were just doing our jobs, we thought it was the right thing to do". PHOOEY!! This show keeps trying to do episodes about LBGTQ characters, but they just end up with prejudiced, biased, downright insulting portrayals. Personally, I think this show should stop trying to address the issues of transgender, gay, lesbian people until they can portray these human beings in a realistic way, instead of using them and their sexuality as foils for some big reveal in court. It's long since been just insulting.

[Jaded]

With Mariska being the "advocate" she acts like she is and since she's had more control over the show as years went on you'd think the treatment towards LGBTQ+ characters would have changed.

[Xeliou66]

Yeah I agree, the show doesn’t have the best history as far as the depictions of LGBT people, usually they are victims or use transgender identity as a plot twist. It would be nice to see a few more gay characters as just regular characters who aren’t criminals or victims, but then again this is a crime show. And on the other hand, this franchise has had plenty of episodes that are supportive of LGBT rights and characters, going all the way back to the episode Manhood of the mothership in 1993 dealing with homophobia in the police force, which was a subject that wasn’t tackled much then. 

[wanderingstar]

Watching this episode now. Fin saying to the first army officer they encounter re Carisi "Please excuse my impertinent colleague" gives me a hearty chuckle.