S04.E11: Without Apology

[Dee]

Quote

On the brink of a lucrative tech deal, Eddie realizes that he must work on rebranding Empire. Cookie springs into action when a girl group from the past re-unites and threatens to expose secrets about Empire and Lucious. Meanwhile, Hakeem makes a major move with Tiana, Andre continues to struggle with his guilt and Becky is faced with a difficult situation.

[tennisgurl]

No matter what stretchy stuff Andre does (and he has done some really sketchy stuff) I can never stay mad at him. His big beautiful eyes are so soulful and look so tortured all the time! Damn it. 

The way they handled that girl group was pretty slick. I felt serious second hand embarrassment for them at the mall gig, especially when Cookie and company came down looking fabulous and in charge. And them constantly grabbing food was pretty sad, looks like things have been better for them. They do still got it though. That last performance was pretty good. 

Tiana shouldn't marry Hakeem, at least not right now. They have had so many ups and downs in their relationship, and they just got back together after he was pretty dang awful to her at the trail, and Tiana should work on herself for now. Even if getting in with Eddie probably wont end well. Dude is not on the up and up, even by this shows standards.  

You know next week is going to bring the drama, with them showing the casts Oscar cred all over the trailer! No way does some measly heart attack crumble Cookie!

[wanderingstar]

With all she's had to deal with - from prison to all the drama since she was released - is it really a surprise that Cookie had a heart attack?

Shine sighting!

Andre is just a ball of self-loathing. I know what he did was wrong, but I wanted to give him a hug.

TBD were hilarious. So happy to see Tisha Campbell - and I loved their showcase song!

I adore Takeem, but Tiana's right: they shouldn't rush into marriage (that certainly didn't work out for Hakeem the last time he tried getting married).

Edited April 5, 2018 by Gillian Rosh

[journalism16]

Tonight's episode was good. With all of the stress that Cookie has been under, this is really sad. I wanted to hug Andre, and Hakeem and Tiana shouldn't get married right now, given everything that is going on. Even after Tiana said she was all in for this tour,  I could tell that she seemed very skeptical about the whole thing, after Eddie told her she shouldn't have any distractions. 

The girl group was a nice touch. 

[Apprentice79]

1 minute ago, journalism16 said:

The girl group was a nice touch. 

They were hilarious. I loved their banter with Luscious and Cookie... I was so happy to see Tisha Campbell. 

[NicoleMN6]

Are we supposed to just forget about Anika killing Rhonda (and Andre’s baby) and Lucious covering for her? Take away the Empire throne drama and Andre’s mental state, and that would still be a pretty compelling reason for Andre to have snapped and tried to kill his dad.

[Dee]

Anika didn't kill Rhonda.

[Kaiju Ballet]

While I felt sad for Andre, my heart broke for Lucious at the revelation that the son he had just expressed his pride and belief in was responsible for the car bomb. It was sweet how his main outrage was that Andre had put Cookie’s life at risk. Maybe he and Cookie do have a dysfunctional relationship, but there is true love there.

 

I’m liking Tiana’s new look, and I felt all skeeved out at Eddie’s weird fixation with her. I was praying hard that he wasn't going to try to make her Wife Number Four.

 

How sweet was it when Becky had her heart to heart with Jamal? Hopefully he’s reminded how valued he is as a human being, especially after the trauma he just went through.

 

I liked how TBD was handled. Lucious can be a dick, but he’s an entertaining one. “The years have been kind to you” to one of the TBDers “and you not so much” to the other. HAHAHA And awwww when Lucious told them to apologize to his queen.

 

I’m glad they’re not shoving the fallout from last week’s episode under the rug—it’s good that Cookie does want to think about some of the points that Crazy Nurse brought up, even if Crazy Nurse is, well, crazy.

[Dream Boy]

6 hours ago, Dee said:

Anika didn't kill Rhonda.

Right. She killed their kid, which Lucious was more than willing to overlook. So, that should also be motivation for Dre to snap along with his other Lucious type issues. lol

Tiana, run! Hakeem is not the one. 

[Biggie B]

I'm pretty sure I once had the same fuzzy pale pink sweater Hakeem was wearing at Andre's homecoming celebration. 

It's always great to see the deep friendship between Becky and Jamal. I suspect the show will take the easy way out and Becky will suffer a miscarriage. That way, she can continue following her dreams and loving her career, yet still have a relationship with the boyfriend she unfortunately just ditched. Speaking of the boyfriend... if he's such a staunchly religious fellow as Becky mentioned he was, how was it OK for him to have sex with someone who's not his spouse?

Eddie is very creepy.

Poor Cookie! For a few moments, I thought she might be pregnant (eschewing alcohol; claiming she felt nauseated, dizzy), but with Becky already pregnant, that didn't make sense. Well, this will give her family something to rally around, especially with Jamal and Hakeem now at odds with Andre.

[Apprentice79]

5 hours ago, Kaiju Ballet said:

I’m liking Tiana’s new look, and I felt all skeeved out at Eddie’s weird fixation with her. I was praying hard that he wasn't going to try to make her Wife Number Four.

When I saw Eddie again, I yelled Zuri at the TV. Plus, he was wearing purple, the color that Zuri wore in Black Panther. I wonder if it was intentional. 

Forrest is a great actor, there was no hint of Zuri in his performance.  He was creepy as hell, 

I also loved seeing Nicole Ari Parker.  She is still gorgeous and has not aged a bit.. 

[Margohill]

Excellent episode! These are the kinds of storylines that keeps me glued to Empire. Issues within the family and how they confront it and deal with it. That's how Empire began and hopefully this will continue. I wish this had been the opening episode of this second half. All that crap with Claudia adds nothing to this show.

Eddie becoming a backstabber to Empire comes as no surprise but I was still disappointed since he was once a great friend and confidant to Lucious. It's very eye-opening how success changes everything and friends you once trusted now become jealous and quickly become your enemies. Eddie doesn't realize that Lucious is a lot smarter than him. I feel that he will find out the hard way. 

The trio singers were a real treat. I loved those girls even-though they didn't realise they were messing with the wrong people. The Lucious they knew back then is no longer the same person and they found out the hard way. I'm glad it all ended with Cocious taking things back in control.

The Lyon boys are a good support system to each other. I like that.

Becky breaking up with her boyfriend was totally ridiculous. Why couldn't she tell him exactly what was going on? 

Tiana is as naïve as all these young girls who go into the music industry and get bamboozled by these industry moguls. Eddie thinks he can swipe her from Empire but we'll see if Tiana is a smart girl. Turning down Hakeem was not unexpected. I think she has a right to think about it because Hakeem still has a lot of growing up to do. That was wise but I'm worried about her being used by Eddie. It'll be interesting to see how that plays out.

Andre (my favorite) did the best thing by confessing. That will free him from all the demons that have been chasing him and send them over to haunt Lucious who now has to figure out what went so badly wrong with their boy that he would resort to such an evil plot. Well, I know very well why and the sooner the Lyons realize that they are all responsible (especially Lucious) for what Andre has become, the better for all of them to resolve this issue.

1. Andre was the 1st born who from a young age starting covering up for his father's criminal ways. (remember when he hid his father's gun when the police searched Lucious's house?) He must have been only 6-7yrs old at the time. That take's a toll on a child's psychology.

2. Andre was aware when his mother went to jail and probably knew why she was jailed.

3. Andre was sent to the best school but his father never appreciated his skills and always used him to raise money for his business. He was treated differently for not being a singer and marrying out of his race.

4. He inherited bipolar illness from Lucious's mother but Lucious never wanted to deal with it and never went to the hospital to visit him after his 1st breakdown. Lucious once told him he was ashamed of him because of his illness. Talk about breaking down your son emotionally and psychologically!

5. He lost his first child when his wife was viciously pushed down the stairs but none of the family cared while Andre was left alone to grieve night and day. Even when his wife died, no one cared again. Lucious responded by sleeping with the killer of his baby and his wife, all the while expecting Andre to bend over and accept it. WRONG.

...... and the list could go on.

So, the Lyons better not judge Andre harshly because he has been through a whole lot coupled with his mental illness. He MUST BE FORGIVEN BY LUCIOUS, in my humble opinion.

.....and now Cookie is in shambles!!! This is really bad. I hope to God she recovers from this with her health in tact. 21 years in jail to sacrifice for your family and now this? Life can be so unfair. I'm not surprised though. After all what Cookie has gone through, the stress and strain was bound to eventually catch up with her.

 

Great episode. Looking forward to next week.

[Empress1]

4 hours ago, Biggie B said:

I'm pretty sure I once had the same fuzzy pale pink sweater Hakeem was wearing at Andre's homecoming celebration. 

It's always great to see the deep friendship between Becky and Jamal. I suspect the show will take the easy way out and Becky will suffer a miscarriage. That way, she can continue following her dreams and loving her career, yet still have a relationship with the boyfriend she unfortunately just ditched. Speaking of the boyfriend... if he's such a staunchly religious fellow as Becky mentioned he was, how was it OK for him to have sex with someone who's not his spouse?

Eddie is very creepy.

Poor Cookie! For a few moments, I thought she might be pregnant (eschewing alcohol; claiming she felt nauseated, dizzy), but with Becky already pregnant, that didn't make sense. Well, this will give her family something to rally around, especially with Jamal and Hakeem now at odds with Andre.

I have a cashmere pale pink v-neck sweater in my closet RIGHT NOW. I was like " ... ?" when I saw Hakeem's mohair sweater.

I was texting with a friend while this was on and we made fun of Tisha's wig, and then when Cookie was like "And they need better wigs" we were like "YOU SEE?" (Although Cookie's bob wig wasn't much better, and I hate her blonde looks.)

@Margohill when Lucious was like "How could he?" I was thinking, look, there are a lot of reasons. A LOT of reasons. When Jamal was talking about all the things Lucious had done to him but he didn't kill him "because you don't kill your parents" (which had me cracking up) I was thinking, I know you don't, but also ... It reminds me of the Chris Rock OJ joke. "I'm not saying he should have killed her, but I understand."

[Dee]

Why does Andre constantly get a free pass for his mental illness and emotional trauma yet nobody else does?

[thuganomics85]

Should have known the happy family reunion wouldn't even last past an episode!

Not surprised Andre finally confessed since it was clearly killing him, but I do wonder where they will go from here.  Even though he's had issues (to put it mildly) and Lucious has certainly given him reason to be upset with him, trying to blow up your father is still a pretty big line to cross.  Plus, I have a feeling Shine won't just take him at his word about keeping his name out of it.  Not surprised that the rest of the family is upset, but I still love that in typical Empire fashion, they aren't acting like "Holy shit, you tried to murder someone!" about it and are more "Dude, that's not cool, man!  Trying to murder people is frowned upon!"

So, it seems like Eddie's plan is to apparently undermine the family and maybe even pit them against one another, and is doing some kind of shady deal with this tech guy and his ex.  It also looks like he is banking on Tiana breaking out and using that to his advantage.  Oh, Eddie!

Even if they only didn't just get back together, it really isn't that surprising that Tiana would need time to think about the proposal.  But since's its Hakeem, he'll probably find a way to mess it all up again.

That girl group didn't have a chance, did they?

Cookie's just collapsed!  Uh oh!

[journalism16]

6 hours ago, Margohill said:

Excellent episode! These are the kinds of storylines that keeps me glued to Empire. Issues within the family and how they confront it and deal with it. That's how Empire began and hopefully this will continue. I wish this had been the opening episode of this second half. All that crap with Claudia adds nothing to this show.

Eddie becoming a backstabber to Empire comes as no surprise but I was still disappointed since he was once a great friend and confidant to Lucious. It's very eye-opening how success changes everything and friends you once trusted now become jealous and quickly become your enemies. Eddie doesn't realize that Lucious is a lot smarter than him. I feel that he will find out the hard way. 

The trio singers were a real treat. I loved those girls even-though they didn't realise they were messing with the wrong people. The Lucious they knew back then is no longer the same person and they found out the hard way. I'm glad it all ended with Cocious taking things back in control.

The Lyon boys are a good support system to each other. I like that.

Becky breaking up with her boyfriend was totally ridiculous. Why couldn't she tell him exactly what was going on? 

Tiana is as naïve as all these young girls who go into the music industry and get bamboozled by these industry moguls. Eddie thinks he can swipe her from Empire but we'll see if Tiana is a smart girl. Turning down Hakeem was not unexpected. I think she has a right to think about it because Hakeem still has a lot of growing up to do. That was wise but I'm worried about her being used by Eddie. It'll be interesting to see how that plays out.

Andre (my favorite) did the best thing by confessing. That will free him from all the demons that have been chasing him and send them over to haunt Lucious who now has to figure out what went so badly wrong with their boy that he would resort to such an evil plot. Well, I know very well why and the sooner the Lyons realize that they are all responsible (especially Lucious) for what Andre has become, the better for all of them to resolve this issue.

1. Andre was the 1st born who from a young age starting covering up for his father's criminal ways. (remember when he hid his father's gun when the police searched Lucious's house?) He must have been only 6-7yrs old at the time. That take's a toll on a child's psychology.

2. Andre was aware when his mother went to jail and probably knew why she was jailed.

3. Andre was sent to the best school but his father never appreciated his skills and always used him to raise money for his business. He was treated differently for not being a singer and marrying out of his race.

4. He inherited bipolar illness from Lucious's mother but Lucious never wanted to deal with it and never went to the hospital to visit him after his 1st breakdown. Lucious once told him he was ashamed of him because of his illness. Talk about breaking down your son emotionally and psychologically!

5. He lost his first child when his wife was viciously pushed down the stairs but none of the family cared while Andre was left alone to grieve night and day. Even when his wife died, no one cared again. Lucious responded by sleeping with the killer of his baby and his wife, all the while expecting Andre to bend over and accept it. WRONG.

...... and the list could go on.

So, the Lyons better not judge Andre harshly because he has been through a whole lot coupled with his mental illness. He MUST BE FORGIVEN BY LUCIOUS, in my humble opinion.

.....and now Cookie is in shambles!!! This is really bad. I hope to God she recovers from this with her health in tact. 21 years in jail to sacrifice for your family and now this? Life can be so unfair. I'm not surprised though. After all what Cookie has gone through, the stress and strain was bound to eventually catch up with her.

 

Great episode. Looking forward to next week.

I agree with everything you said. I am looking forward to next week as well.

[Biggie B]

7 hours ago, Margohill said:

The Lyon boys are a good support system to each other. I like that.

Becky breaking up with her boyfriend was totally ridiculous. Why couldn't she tell him exactly what was going on? 

 

As the episode ended, both Hakeem and Jamal were furious with Andre - they did a complete 180 in their earlier support. I do feel, though, that Cookie's health situation may reunite them, even if only temporarily.

As for Becky - she earlier told Jamal how religious her boyfriend is. If she tells him she's pregnant, he'd likely want her to keep the baby and perhaps even suggest they get married. That's not necessarily what Becky wants. If she's even considering an abortion, he will likely object. She herself may feel guilt and shame in even considering an abortion, and may feel she's letting him down and disappointing him. She may think she's sparing him the emotional and moral dilemma of what she may be considering. As in any good soap opera, she's pretending to not want to be with him, when in fact she cares for him deeply and may even love him. 

Edited April 6, 2018 by Biggie B

[Dee]

Becky should tell Job about her condition.

She assumes that because he's Christian, he'd pressure her into having the baby and/or be against her potentially terminating her pregnancy, but she hasn't even given him an opportunity to respond either way.

It would be a lot more hurtful, to all parties involved, for him to find out after the fact, given the relatively good place they were in prior to the surprise pregnancy.

Edited April 6, 2018 by Dee

[Biggie B]

Dee, you are of course correct - but that is not how soap operas are written!

[Dee]

Very true, Biggie B.

And of course, I don't think Becky's intentionally attempting to be hurtful, but the longer she avoids dealing with the issue directly, the more painful it's gonna be in the end.

I do wonder what kind of support system Becky has, or doesn't have, that makes her assume motherhood would impede her current career track.

[Happytobehere]

11 hours ago, Margohill said:

Excellent episode! These are the kinds of storylines that keeps me glued to Empire. Issues within the family and how they confront it and deal with it. That's how Empire began and hopefully this will continue. I wish this had been the opening episode of this second half. All that crap with Claudia adds nothing to this show.

Eddie becoming a backstabber to Empire comes as no surprise but I was still disappointed since he was once a great friend and confidant to Lucious. It's very eye-opening how success changes everything and friends you once trusted now become jealous and quickly become your enemies. Eddie doesn't realize that Lucious is a lot smarter than him. I feel that he will find out the hard way. 

The trio singers were a real treat. I loved those girls even-though they didn't realise they were messing with the wrong people. The Lucious they knew back then is no longer the same person and they found out the hard way. I'm glad it all ended with Cocious taking things back in control.

The Lyon boys are a good support system to each other. I like that.

Becky breaking up with her boyfriend was totally ridiculous. Why couldn't she tell him exactly what was going on? 

Tiana is as naïve as all these young girls who go into the music industry and get bamboozled by these industry moguls. Eddie thinks he can swipe her from Empire but we'll see if Tiana is a smart girl. Turning down Hakeem was not unexpected. I think she has a right to think about it because Hakeem still has a lot of growing up to do. That was wise but I'm worried about her being used by Eddie. It'll be interesting to see how that plays out.

Andre (my favorite) did the best thing by confessing. That will free him from all the demons that have been chasing him and send them over to haunt Lucious who now has to figure out what went so badly wrong with their boy that he would resort to such an evil plot. Well, I know very well why and the sooner the Lyons realize that they are all responsible (especially Lucious) for what Andre has become, the better for all of them to resolve this issue.

1. Andre was the 1st born who from a young age starting covering up for his father's criminal ways. (remember when he hid his father's gun when the police searched Lucious's house?) He must have been only 6-7yrs old at the time. That take's a toll on a child's psychology.

2. Andre was aware when his mother went to jail and probably knew why she was jailed.

3. Andre was sent to the best school but his father never appreciated his skills and always used him to raise money for his business. He was treated differently for not being a singer and marrying out of his race.

4. He inherited bipolar illness from Lucious's mother but Lucious never wanted to deal with it and never went to the hospital to visit him after his 1st breakdown. Lucious once told him he was ashamed of him because of his illness. Talk about breaking down your son emotionally and psychologically!

5. He lost his first child when his wife was viciously pushed down the stairs but none of the family cared while Andre was left alone to grieve night and day. Even when his wife died, no one cared again. Lucious responded by sleeping with the killer of his baby and his wife, all the while expecting Andre to bend over and accept it. WRONG.

...... and the list could go on.

So, the Lyons better not judge Andre harshly because he has been through a whole lot coupled with his mental illness. He MUST BE FORGIVEN BY LUCIOUS, in my humble opinion.

.....and now Cookie is in shambles!!! This is really bad. I hope to God she recovers from this with her health in tact. 21 years in jail to sacrifice for your family and now this? Life can be so unfair. I'm not surprised though. After all what Cookie has gone through, the stress and strain was bound to eventually catch up with her.

 

Great episode. Looking forward to next week.

I love this post. I am also wondering if Cookie’s illness is setting up an out for Taraji should she choose, unless the show definitely has her on lock for five seasons; in which case, this is the question to be asked next season.

[Dee]

Taraji has said she isn't going anywhere.

Like Viola, she seems pretty happy with a relatively reduced episode order, and the option to create and produce outside projects during the hiatus.

Edited April 6, 2018 by Dee

[calibabe]

20 minutes ago, Dee said:

Taraji has said she isn't going anywhere.

Like Viola, she seems pretty happy with a relatively reduced episode order, and the option to create and produce outside projects during the hiatus.

I had read awhile ago that she told Lee that she did not want to go beyond 88 episodes because Cookie is so exhausting for her to play. Without Cookie Empire wouldn’t be Empire. Terrence is already on the record saying he has no intention of doing anything else and that Lucious will be the last character he plays. I’m glad that she is publicly stating that she’s with Empire until it ends. As long as they lure big time talent like Forest Whitaker and Demi Moore to Empire I don’t think you will see anyone leaving any time soon...

[darkestboy]

Did not expect that last scene with Cookie. Damn.

Andre does have a good support system with Jamal and Hakeem but Lucious had every right to lose it with him though.

Eddie and his wife trying to take over Empire, not that original but his interest in Tiana is creepy.

The older girl band were fun to watch though, 7/10

[Dee]

Terrence, Taraji & Trai continue knocking it out of the park week after week. That final 10 minutes was a master class in acting from all three. From Lucious epic Lear-esque meltdown to Trai's haunted confession, to Cookie's complete emotional & physical breakdown. Just great stuff all around.

I adored Becky & Jamal's tender reconciliation. Their temporary estrangement was inevitable, given their respective positions in the company, but they belong together as the platonic soulmates they truly are.

I had to laugh at yet another Lyon Dinner turning out horribly. But apparently they're gonna keep trying until they eventually get it right.

Jamal & Hakeem confronting Andre was great. The one thing missing was one, or both, of them pointing out what he did to them, in the not too distant past. Andre may look like a big soulful puppy but he's really a rottweiler.

I loved the plethora of small intimate character building scenes we were blessed with this week. Jamal & Eddie, Becky & Job, Shyne & Andre, Lucious & Thirsty, Jamal & Becky, Hakeem & Tiana, Jamal & Andre, Giselle & Eddie, Andre & Rev. Price, Tiana & Eddie. This season has really leaned into Empire's deep supporting cast and it's paying off quite well.

I also loved Cookie leaning on Porsha & Becky when she needs to get stuff done. Both women have seriously come into their own under Cookie's leadership.

But the thing I loved the most about this episode, is that no matter how many nasty remarks TBD made about Cookie, or however many times they were down right snide to her in person, she never once responded in kind, or made them feel bad about their less than ideal situation. She simply lifted them up and encouraged them to fulfill their potential, continuing the theme of women supporting women both in theory, and in practice.

Edited April 10, 2018 by Dee