S03.E16: I, Ava

[johntfs]

2 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

Why they are called Automatons then?

Because it's more marketable than calling them Cloned Brainwashed Human Slaves.

[Sakura12]

Automatons means machines that look human. So they are marketing them as machines? 

[johntfs]

8 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

Automatons means machines that look human. So they are marketing them as machines? 

Pretty much.  Like I said before, the whole thing is kind of creepy if you really think about it, which the episode really didn't want to stop to do.  "Our" Ava is clearly a fully realized person with hopes, dreams, a personality and an apparent sexual preference for women.  The assumption is that Rip "made" her that way.  Meanwhile, in Vancouver of 2213, a corporation created the "perfect woman" and turned her into mass-produced, disposable slaves.

[afterbite]

6 hours ago, johntfs said:

Pretty much.  Like I said before, the whole thing is kind of creepy if you really think about it, which the episode really didn't want to stop to do.  "Our" Ava is clearly a fully realized person with hopes, dreams, a personality and an apparent sexual preference for women.  The assumption is that Rip "made" her that way.  Meanwhile, in Vancouver of 2213, a corporation created the "perfect woman" and turned her into mass-produced, disposable slaves.

I can't find the clip on youtube for some reason, but when Sara, Ray, and Gary find the lab, isn't there some sort of metal skeleton in the fancy future tech sphere over which they essentially 3D print a new Ava? If that's the case, if she's a clone, she's not grown from infancy so much as she's produced as an adult. If that's the case, how has show Ava developed her personality? Was she just told she's a no-nonsense Time Bureau agent but everything after that unfolded organically?

(Also, I love Gary and I hope they keep him. And Ava.)

[Sakura12]

12 minutes ago, afterbite said:

I can't find the clip on youtube for some reason, but when Sara, Ray, and Gary find the lab, isn't there some sort of metal skeleton in the fancy future tech sphere over which they essentially 3D print a new Ava? If that's the case, if she's a clone, she's not grown from infancy so much as she's produced as an adult. If that's the case, how has show Ava developed her personality? Was she just told she's a no-nonsense Time Bureau agent but everything after that unfolded organically?

(Also, I love Gary and I hope they keep him. And Ava.)

Rip seemed to have programmed his Ava to have a backstory complete with hired actor parents, when in reality she was only made 4-5 years ago. I'm also assuming he gave her a personality so she would fit in a bit more with the Time Bureau agents. I think her change in personality was because of her interaction with the Legends and Sara.  So now she's basically an anachronism. 

The metal skeleton makes her more robot than human. I think the genetic material is the synthesized skin to make her look human. 

[darkestboy]

Not a bad backstory for Ava. I did like the team up of Sara, Ray and Gary figuring out this about Ava and the latter's reaction to her own origin was nicely handled.

I guess we have to find out why Rip specifically picked this clone of Ava though. Was she the original to begin with or a clone that was more aware than the others?

Kuasa being killed by Nora I should've expected as the episode was going about putting her on a redemptive path. Amaya is going to do something very reckless now.

Either recast Mari or don't factor her into thing. It jarred not actually seeing her here.

Some great scenes with Nate/Damien, Wally/Nate and Zari/Mick this week as well, 7/10

[sd dude]

So, is the implication that Amaya the character takes the time to straighten her hair when she gets into uniform?  Or should I infer that the character (not the actress) is wearing various wigs and changes wigs from curly to straight when she changes to Vixen?  Not much of a disguise really, so doesn't make much sense either way.

I hope I'm not exercising a double standard.  When Laurel Lance as Black Canary in Arrow would suit up with long blonde hair, I never assumed she was dying her hair back and forth several times an episode.  And again, just changing hair color and style does not make for a great vigilante disguise either, but it is a little more effective than hair of the same color and length simply going from straight to curly, and Laurel did wear a mask as well.

[Solace247]

5 hours ago, afterbite said:

I can't find the clip on youtube for some reason, but when Sara, Ray, and Gary find the lab, isn't there some sort of metal skeleton in the fancy future tech sphere over which they essentially 3D print a new Ava? If that's the case, if she's a clone, she's not grown from infancy so much as she's produced as an adult. If that's the case, how has show Ava developed her personality? Was she just told she's a no-nonsense Time Bureau agent but everything after that unfolded organically?

(Also, I love Gary and I hope they keep him. And Ava.)

The Ava clones were materialized with top of the line lights and lasers--no metal undergirding present. She was basically made by a ST:TNG food replicator.

[DavidJSnyder]

1 hour ago, sd dude said:

So, is the implication that Amaya the character takes the time to straighten her hair when she gets into uniform? 

The Waverider has advanced nearly-instantaneous hair styling technology based on a device originally developed by Curtis Holt in the early twenty first century for putting in Mr. Terrific's cornrows.

[Miss Dee]

1 hour ago, DavidJSnyder said:

The Waverider has advanced nearly-instantaneous hair styling technology based on a device originally developed by Curtis Holt in the early twenty first century for putting in Mr. Terrific's cornrows.

And yet: ONE BATHROOM. I'm sorry, I can't get over that aspect of the ship design....

[johntfs]

13 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

The metal skeleton makes her more robot than human. I think the genetic material is the synthesized skin to make her look human. 

As Solace247 noted, the Avas are put together like organic matter from a Star Trek food replicator that puts together a person called Ava instead of a Bacon Cheeseburger.  The Ava we have is physically identical to all the other Avas, differing only in personality (specifically by having one with implanted memories to back it up).  As far as has been shown, Ava eats, drinks, sleeps, shits and fucks just like any other human person.  She's shown no signs of having abilities beyond that of a highly skilled exceptional human being.  While you're certainly free to maintain "The Avas are robots" in your head-canon, what we've seen on the show does not support that belief in my opinion.

Edited March 30, 2018 by johntfs

[afterbite]

@Solace 247 - I finally found the clip and you're right. I think my initial misconception came about because her bones seemed to glow for a moment as they were constructed. In my admittedly faulty memory, it made me think they were metal. 

 

I suppose my interest is in how her personality developed. Presumably Rip programmed her, but how far did that programming go? Did she automatically begin to develop her own unique personality as soon as that happened or was meeting Sara a catalyst for enhanced personality exploration? Was her personality set as abrasive and by the book, as she was when she first appeared? Or, did Rip just give her some basic cues, like 'be a good Time Bureau Agent' and she absorbed and manifested bureaucracy? She mentions an ex-gf, which I believe she has because I can't imagine that Rip specifically programmed her to be into women (especially given what I think was surprise to see that she and Sara were hooking up). I guess I'm just caught up in the potential slapstick of a clone who doesn't know they're a clone and who is inserted into the world as an adult with a little programming. She doesn't know she's learning and adapting, but she is.

Also, since they said about 14 times that she was the perfect woman and that the most favorable genetic traits had been combined to make her, does this make her the ultimate genetically engineered good girl who has fallen for the ultimate (redeemed) bad girl? :)

[Sakura12]

It's probably the nature vs nurture argument that made Ava change her programming. When we first met her she was pretty much like the those robotic clones that followed set rules and didn't break from them. Then when she started hanging around Sara and the Legends she started learning and acting more like them. I think it's kind of like Gideon as well, without Rip, she's become more snarky and even argues with the team like a true member. 

[Miss Dee]

Speaking of "the perfect woman" remark: I loved, loved, loved that Ray's response to that was that the perfect woman was a little too pale. I'm not surprised that a corporation would automatically assume the "perfect woman" had to be a blonde, and to fit the story of course all the clones had to look like Jes McCallen. But I'm really glad the show lampshaded the fact that too many people in the world would make the same assumption, and for a lot of people a white blonde wouldn't be the idea of perfection at all. And it's very fitting that the most moral person on the ship (not to mention the actor being a former Superman) was the one to call that out.

[CloudySky]

10 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

It's probably the nature vs nurture argument that made Ava change her programming. When we first met her she was pretty much like the those robotic clones that followed set rules and didn't break from them. Then when she started hanging around Sara and the Legends she started learning and acting more like them. I think it's kind of like Gideon as well, without Rip, she's become more snarky and even argues with the team like a true member. 

Maybe it's also a bit of that time displacement thing that Sara had when half the team got left behind in season 1 after Chronos attacked the ship and she rejoined the league of assasins. Ava has basically been living 200ish years in the past this whole time.

[treasaigh]

Even with this backstory I'm just not finding myself interested in Ava or Avalance. Gary?  Gary, I'd be happy to keep.  He's fun.  Ava?  She just doesn't interest me.  Regardless of she's a clone, robot, or molded clay brought to life by a god.