S05.E06: Icarus

[Dessert]

47 minutes ago, LennieBriscoe said:

Besides the Bright and photo-of-daughter scene, I don't even recall the previous  season's "pregnancy of Joan" storyline! If it's on the PBS rendition,  might someone be so kind as to say which episode? ?

It’s in Harvest, the PBS version, too. The word “pregnancy” is never uttered. Morse gets a call that Joan is in the hospital. When he arrives, she is asleep, having been sedated after what is described as a fall. The doctor assumes Morse is her husband or boyfriend and assures him that they can “try again” soon. The realization washes over Morse’s face, he kisses her on the forehead and leaves. 

In Muse, when she returns to Oxford and sees Morse, Joan tells him that she knows her neighbor called him and then says, defensively, that she had fallen. He just smiles.

In Passenger, part of the roof scene was cut in the PBS version. Morse doesn’t want to go to the edge of the roof and asks Joan to come to him (part of this may be because he’s developing a fear of heights). She seems a little irritated and tells him she’s not going to jump - clearly a reference to her “fall”.

Edited August 2, 2018 by Dessert

[jjj]

1 hour ago, carrps said:

ETA: What was the poem that Morse recited at the funeral? There was something said that implied he wrote it himself. Was it an original poem, or is it one I've never heard before? I loved that last line about looking west and seeing the landscape all brightly lit. Made me cry a bit. And I never thought I'd cry for Fancy!

 

The poem is "Say not the Struggle nought Availeth," by Arthur Hugh Clough.  It was a lovely choice, beautifully read aloud. Here is a link: https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/43959/say-not-the-struggle-nought-availeth 

And the poem has an apt reference to the fact that his four colleagues would be looking for his killer(s):  "Your comrades chase e'en now the fliers" 

Edited August 2, 2018 by jjj

[LennieBriscoe]

Thanks, Dessert! I didn't keep Season 4 on my DVR, and anyway I didn't care for the weird "Harvest" episode with the old lady on the porch, the freaky scarecrow, etc.  So maybe I abandoned it before the Joan scenes! ?

[Dessert]

45 minutes ago, LennieBriscoe said:

Thanks, Dessert! I didn't keep Season 4 on my DVR, and anyway I didn't care for the weird "Harvest" episode with the old lady on the porch, the freaky scarecrow, etc.  So maybe I abandoned it before the Joan scenes! ?

Oh, my! Those were the best scenes! Did you miss Morse asking Joan to marry him? I agree about the Harvest plot. FF is my friend.

[LennieBriscoe]

Endeavour asked Joan to MARRY him?! Then why does he now act like he's still all shy and afraid to broach any type of even a date?

I'd better get myself to Amazon and YouTube,  lol! 

Topic: I thought the friendliness of Joan to her father was a tad sudden, in terms of her characterization. I mean, why now? I would think the estranged daughter would side with her mother (in general, not that Joan would be privy to Win's reasons). 

[carrps]

15 hours ago, jjj said:

The poem is "Say not the Struggle nought Availeth," by Arthur Hugh Clough.  It was a lovely choice, beautifully read aloud. Here is a link: https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/43959/say-not-the-struggle-nought-availeth 

And the poem has an apt reference to the fact that his four colleagues would be looking for his killer(s):  "Your comrades chase e'en now the fliers" 

Thank you so much! I remember Clough (and even know how to pronounce it) from my uni days, but I don't remember that specific poem. Yes, wonderful choice by Morse.

[Dessert]

10 hours ago, LennieBriscoe said:

Endeavour asked Joan to MARRY him?! Then why does he now act like he's still all shy and afraid to broach any type of even a date?

I'd better get myself to Amazon and YouTube,  lol! 

Topic: I thought the friendliness of Joan to her father was a tad sudden, in terms of her characterization. I mean, why now? I would think the estranged daughter would side with her mother (in general, not that Joan would be privy to Win's reasons). 

I’m happy to tell you what happened. Would you prefer to watch it without any more spoilers? The acting is really brilliant in those scenes! I’ll hide the rest as a spoiler.

Spoiler

First, I’ll tell you about Fred.

Morse’s apartment has been robbed and Thursday is looking at some of the contents. He discovers one of those composite drawings that Morse had made of Joan, with her address on the back, and he promptly goes to see her in Leamington. Some “fancy man” is obviously paying for Joan’s apartment and keeping her as his mistress. There is an angry confrontation between Joan and her father. He asks her if this the kind of life she wants and she says that she doesn’t want a life like his and Win’s - that it’s her life, not his. He tells her she’s “made her bed” (and, presumably, can suffer the consequences). The boyfriend then walks in and Fred leaves. He waits in the parking garage and beats the boyfriend up - telling him to stay away from Joan.

Later, Thursday tells Morse that he has seen Joan and asks him why he didn’t tell him he had found her. Morse, of course doesn’t say as much as he could - just that it wasn’t his place. Fred says it wasn’t his place to look for her and Morse looks sad and a little hurt.

Even later, Morse is walking home at night and sees Joan in front of his house waiting for him. The emotions that wash over Shaun Evans’ face, and even is walk, in those few seconds are amazing. It’s great acting. 

He invites her in. Joan says his apartment isn’t what she was expecting and he cringes a little. She turns around and he sees for the first time that she has a black eye - has been beaten by the boyfriend. He demands to know where he is, but she won’t tell him, tries to calm him down, and says she provoked the attack. Morse pleads with her not to say that. Joan tells him that the boyfriend has given her two weeks to vacate the apartment. She is desperate and doesn’t know what to do. Morse encourages her to go home and she says that she can’t - that she’s made such a mess. He then says “marry me”. An audible gasp is heard on both sides of the pond.

I should say that all of this is colored by the fact that Joan is pregnant and that Morse and the audience know that only in retrospect. After a few shocked seconds, she says that she doesn’t want his pity. He turns his back in attempt to get control of his emotions, but is obviously hurt. He tells her that he is accepting a job in London (of course, he changes his mind when he’s finally made sergeant).  He gives her money so that she can find a place to stay. She tries to turn it down, but he insists that she’ll need it. He gets a phone call, she kisses her fingers and touches his lips with them as a goodbye. As she’s leaving, he pleads with her not to go back to the boyfriend. She says she’s going to get her things and asks him to “Save the World for me” (which, of course, he does). The next time he sees her, she’s in the hospital.

Sara Vickers has said that Joan really did think Morse proposed out of pity and that she wouldn’t saddle him with another man’s child.

The acting was great by both of them. I hope you get to watch those scenes.

 

Edited August 3, 2018 by Dessert

[atlantaloves]

WOW, that too was one of my favorite scenes from the series. Ahhhhhhhhh that Morse. Damn it. 

[fauntleroy]

By the way just to add no way should Fred have given Charlie a dime. My brother was of the same ilk and had he ever asked for money he would have got laughed at.. This kind of request doesn't come out of the blue - there's history there. Maybe throw a few quid his way if a softie. The wife and daughter could work. But giving away their whole savings, and not telling Win to boot, because 'family', is preposterous. Invoking 'family' doesnt turn a hard-boiled copper into an idiot.

[atlantaloves]

I concur fauntleroy, that didn't seem like Thursday at all. 

[Dessert]

12 hours ago, LennieBriscoe said:

Topic: I thought the friendliness of Joan to her father was a tad sudden, in terms of her characterization. I mean, why now? I would think the estranged daughter would side with her mother (in general, not that Joan would be privy to Win's reasons). 

I don’t think Joan is taking sides against her mother. She has probably wanted to end her estrangement from her father for awhile and wanted to comfort him because she knows what it feels like to make a terrible mistake that hurts your family  - the shame and regret.

24 minutes ago, atlantaloves said:

I concur fauntleroy, that didn't seem like Thursday at all. 

It does seem like a plot device. I assume there is some family history there - possibly guilt at being the more successful, respectable brother, or family favoritism - that clouded Fred’s judgement. Sensible people often are oblivious, their emotional buttons easily pushed, when it comes to their families.

[Writing Wrongs]

On 8/2/2018 at 10:16 AM, magdalene said:

There has been a thread of police corruption running through this entire season and my very first suspicion was that Fancy was killed by corrupt police who made it look like a gangland killing.

I think it's the Robbery Squad guys that were such dicks. Remember the one ordered Fancy to get him a coffee with 3 sugars and then later going through the inventory in the garage Trewlove holds up a box of Gidbury's Lime Whip and says. "Somebody has a sweet tooth." I thought sure they'd follow this up, but it hasn't happened yet.

Edited August 4, 2018 by Writing Wrongs

[howiveaddict]

17 minutes ago, Writing Wrongs said:

I think it's the Robbery Squad guys that were such dicks. Remember the one ordered Fancy to get him a coffee with 3 sugars and then later going through the inventory in the garage Trewlove holds up a box of Gidbury's Lime Whip and says. "Somebody has a sweet tooth." I thought sure they'd follow this up, but it hasn't happened yet.

I would almost bet money that is who shot Fancy.  I bet Fancy saw them arrive, followed them in and he was shot to shut him up.   Can't wait for next season to find out.  

[atlantaloves]

I think those nasty cops were behind the killing of Fancy as well. and it is up to Thursday and Morse to come to the rescue, keeping it under the veil of course.   Next season is going to be juicy. I so loved the character of Trewlove, damn it, maybe they will get together for some brain storming and a couple of pints.  She is one smart cookie. She would be a perfect love interest for Morse in a normal series, but not so here, they could be a terrific detective team in London, but we know that is not going to happen because Morse is a lifer in Oxford.  

[Tardislass]

18 hours ago, atlantaloves said:

I think those nasty cops were behind the killing of Fancy as well. and it is up to Thursday and Morse to come to the rescue, keeping it under the veil of course.   Next season is going to be juicy. I so loved the character of Trewlove, damn it, maybe they will get together for some brain storming and a couple of pints.  She is one smart cookie. She would be a perfect love interest for Morse in a normal series, but not so here, they could be a terrific detective team in London, but we know that is not going to happen because Morse is a lifer in Oxford.  

I too think that Trewlove would have been a good match for Morse, but alas this is the Morse world where he only dates women who are wrong for him. 

[humbleopinion]

Morse and Joan are not Mary and Matthew.

We all just need to get a grip.

Whenever the two have near misses with each other, it still tugs our heart strings.

Dammit.

[nara]

I have been worried about Fred Thursday's fate since season 2.  After all, in all stories, the hero(ine) has to move forward without his/her mentor at some point.  Plus, there's such an air of melancholy about this show, that it will be a tragic fate whenever it does happen.  So I was happy to see him live to another day, but I did not expect Fancy's death at all.  In fact, I'm rather sad that the 2 youngest characters are gone.  The show needed fresh blood to enable Morse to start rising to the leadership role he'll eventually have.  That being said, maybe a spinoff or one-time movie is possible with Trewlove at the Yard?

[humbleopinion]

Trewlove is a character that was just spinning her wheels career wise so she must fly the coop to then comeback and intersect with Morse later...maybe  as soon as next season....

The scenes with Morse undercover was a lovely as was the budding romance with Fancy.

But it was her relationship with Bright that was the best....

Trewlove's character had a very good season..

[M. Darcy]

Something new to add to our "what does Icarus mean" discussion.  It probably has nothing to do with anything but I thought it was interesting. 

I'm going back to the beginning and watching the Morse series on Brit Box and I just watched episode 2 - The Silent World of Nicholas Quinn.   One of the characters was the one writing the crosswords Morse loved so much under the name Daedalus...who of course is Icarus's father. 

[deirdra]

On ‎2018‎-‎08‎-‎13 at 8:32 AM, M. Darcy said:

Something new to add to our "what does Icarus mean" discussion.  It probably has nothing to do with anything but I thought it was interesting. 

I'm going back to the beginning and watching the Morse series on Brit Box and I just watched episode 2 - The Silent World of Nicholas Quinn.   One of the characters was the one writing the crosswords Morse loved so much under the name Daedalus...who of course is Icarus's father. 

I noticed that too.  I've started watching Inspector Morse from the beginning and in "Fat Chance" there is a 20-something WPC Louise Bright.