S02.E16: Vegas, Baby

[possibilities]

17 hours ago, Pallas said:

I saw this less as one-upsmanship and more as Jack's being unable to contain his excitement at the prospect of pleasing Rebecca and winning her praise. His underlying need for her assurance that he was a worthy husband. With a depressed mother and alcoholic father, he probably had little practice in receiving a direct and meaningful expression of love, like Rebecca's gifts. He may not have known what to do with it, when he got it. Meanwhile, he likely had a lot of practice in striving to make an impression on each of his parents, in order to prove himself to them and receive some small acknowledgement that he was a good son.

His own form of anxious behavior. Each family celebration, each wedding anniversary, Jack went big to prove to himself that he wasn't small anymore. It was never enough. Alcoholics don't know what is enough or when is enough, and not only with booze. Not until what he facetiously called "the best ever" Super Bowl Sunday, when each kid went his or her way and a sober Jack found it in himself to accept that, because he had nothing left to prove. But even that night, after rescuing his family from the fire, he was overtaken by the need to do more.

This made me wonder about Rebecca. We've seen her mother was cold and awful. I can't remember what her father was like, but I'm pretty sure we haven't seen him be warm or supportive in any way. People do react differently to similar circumstances, but I find it interesting that they do.

[WhosThatGirl]

8 minutes ago, possibilities said:

This made me wonder about Rebecca. We've seen her mother was cold and awful. I can't remember what her father was like, but I'm pretty sure we haven't seen him be warm or supportive in any way. People do react differently to similar circumstances, but I find it interesting that they do.

We saw a brief clip of her father in the first super bowl episode of season one and when Rebecca wanted to learn about football she did it because she didn’t want to become her mother who always got ignored by the father when the game was on. Also in said flashback, Rebecca’s mother would make sure she and Rebecca’s sister were out of the room to not disrupt the game her dad was watching. So I assume he wasn’t anything like Jack as a father. I think he was probably just stoic as a parent. Rebecca’s mom did the heavy lifting(badly) and Rebecca’s Dad was the one who brought home the money, etc.

I would like to meet Rebecca’s sister. Also InThe football episode it was implied that she became a mom already at that point I think or wanted to be a mom because when Rebecca said she didn’t want kids and Jack knew this, and he should have married her mom, Jack went “I was thinking your sister” or something. 

[debraran]

4 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

We saw a brief clip of her father in the first super bowl episode of season one and when Rebecca wanted to learn about football she did it because she didn’t want to become her mother who always got ignored by the father when the game was on. Also in said flashback, Rebecca’s mother would make sure she and Rebecca’s sister were out of the room to not disrupt the game her dad was watching. So I assume he wasn’t anything like Jack as a father. I think he was probably just stoic as a parent. Rebecca’s mom did the heavy lifting(badly) and Rebecca’s Dad was the one who brought home the money, etc.

I would like to meet Rebecca’s sister. Also InThe football episode it was implied that she became a mom already at that point I think or wanted to be a mom because when Rebecca said she didn’t want kids and Jack knew this, and he should have married her mom, Jack went “I was thinking your sister” or something. 

It is odd they are never mentioned often. You never hear Rebecca say, maybe camping, "When I was a kid, my sister hating being in a tent or snakes or something"  You don't need to show them but TIU doesn't make the characters have a background. I'm glad Toby mentioned his brother and Beth mentioned her family but central characters don't. Was Rebecca's dad racist, did he die? Why didn't he visit them at Xmas?  Is her sister across the states and if not, no Aunt ever sends a card or visits or even mentioned as  "We can visit my sister this summer" Do they have cousins? When Jack died, was her family there? No pictures of them, they showed kids around the house in photos and the friend by the pool but no relatives. I don't mention or see most of my relatives often but I have a lot of childhood memories.

I know it's not what the show is about but it's odd to mention someone in passing once and then never again even in tragic moments.

[Guest]

The time I thought it was odd Rebecca had no family to swoop in was around the birth.  Maybe they did have her mom come soon after, though, I don't recall.  

[Violetgoblin6]

On 2/27/2018 at 10:03 PM, Spartan Girl said:

Geez, Kevin and Randall couldn't leave their dramas out of Toby and Kate's Vegas bachelor parties.

I know people get sick of Jack's great romantic gestures but as someone sick of all the shitty men we're currently enduring, it's nice to watch a good one every once in a while.

Loved Audio rolling over for Toby's belly rub

On 2/28/2018 at 5:09 AM, debraran said:

How many episodes could Randall watch of Sex and the City?  : 0   He had to move on. ; ) Yes, I thought, especially at the shower, that was an odd comment. I'm sure she could have visited them many times before and after kids and saying it seemed like always Kate and Kevin, well that's what we saw all the time.  It was like the writers read, "Why isn't Kate ever with Randall" and you get a show about them doing things together. Maybe they'll have more flashbacks to that time.

I loved how they addressed the friends issue also. They never showed them and were honest about it.

Re Deja, I don't feel it either, it's like when they manipulate too much, I turn off. Lets make this dramatic return, pull the heart strings, etc. Let's not mention telling her you'll help anytime and giving her money without telling her social worker you suspect something is wrong, was not a good thing. I don't mind the fostering storyline, I just wish they'd be a little more realistic.  If they couldn't pay the heat bill, did it occur to Randall, food or electricity or other things weren't right and they know about agencies to help.

Where were Kate and Randall watching Sex & the City?? We're they in the house, newly renovated? In an apartment? I only watched that episode once and am curious about where the family ended up after Jack died. I wonder if they ever went back to the house. 

[debraran]

Kate and Randall were just shown pretty much on a couch in a nondescript living room. If you can see this tumblr post, it shows the scene they showed in that flashback. Kate's eating a hotdog and laughing with him.

https://www.google.com/search?q=randall+and+kate+watching+sex+in+the+city&client=firefox-b-1-ab&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjyso_r8_vZAhVDj1kKHWc0CdgQ_AUICygC&biw=1366&bih=631#imgrc=wzpNV9rleWYs7M:

Edited March 20, 2018 by debraran

[debraran]

12 hours ago, Violetgoblin6 said:

 

 

 

 

This might show it a little better.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

11 hours ago, debraran said:

Kate's eating a hotdog

Hot pocket?

[debraran]

6 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Hot pocket?

Ah yes, that was a popular snack then. It is a hot pocket...what kind, that will be a mystery ; )

[Violetgoblin6]

6 hours ago, debraran said:

 

 

 

This might show it a little better.

thank you!!!! Hmmm. Doesn't really look like the Pearson home. 

[NutMeg]

On 3/5/2018 at 12:52 PM, Pallas said:

I saw this less as one-upsmanship and more as Jack's being unable to contain his excitement at the prospect of pleasing Rebecca and winning her praise. His underlying need for her assurance that he was a worthy husband. With a depressed mother and alcoholic father, he probably had little practice in receiving a direct and meaningful expression of love, like Rebecca's gifts. He may not have known what to do with it, when he got it. Meanwhile, he likely had a lot of practice in striving to make an impression on each of his parents, in order to prove himself to them and receive some small acknowledgement that he was a good son.

His own form of anxious behavior. Each family celebration, each wedding anniversary, Jack went big to prove to himself that he wasn't small anymore. It was never enough. Alcoholics don't know what is enough or when is enough, and not only with booze. Not until what he facetiously called "the best ever" Super Bowl Sunday, when each kid went his or her way and a sober Jack found it in himself to accept that, because he had nothing left to prove. But even that night, after rescuing his family from the fire, he was overtaken by the need to do more.

I see your point, and it makes sense, but how it might make Rebecca feel is relegated under the carpet. What I get from the episodes is that she feels her gifts consistently pale compared to his. Maybe that explains why she chose "no gifts" that year.

How awful must it feel that what you give is always subpar? She doesn't know that for Jack just being married to her is the be all and end all. 

[MBJ]

On 2/28/2018 at 3:54 PM, memememe76 said:

Kate immediately regretted what she said, and realized how bad it sounded. I think her later conversation with Randall contextualized her comments--she was in grief over the passing of her dad, Randall was there to comfort her (Kevin apparently was not), and then Randall "left" her for Beth. To me, it makes sense. Kate really spiralled at that time, while Beth was seen as "perfect". It is also consistent with the fact that Kate and Randall don't share a whole lot of scenes. Kate does not seem to have that same close relationship with her nieces as Kevin does. 

This stuff is so incredibly relatable for me.  To sum it up, my older brother (his life is very similar to Randall's) was my BFF growing up and we both had a hard time with stuff that we both related to.  I always thought that that friendship was so true and genuine but after he was 18 and left the house, we saw him about 5% as much as we used to.  It was very difficult for me and it kind of still is.  The writers kind of write my life. 

On 2/28/2018 at 3:34 PM, txhorns79 said:

Yeah, I felt like the whole storyline was something that would have occurred a long time ago if Kate was really upset about all this, since it isn't as if Randall's marriage is some new dynamic she needs to learn to maneuver.  I also agree that Kate doesn't seem to understand how marriage works.  I would think most marriages where the husband and/or wife prioritized their siblings over their spouse would not end well. 

I don't think it's that black and white.  I think it's a common complaint that when people get married, especially men, they don't see their immediate family as often.  Seeing them once in a while would be nice.  My mother feels this way about her sons.  Having immediate family be "a" priority, sometimes, would be nice.  Nobody is demanding to be top of the pile.

I even relate to the show on a more superficial level than that - from the hot pockets to the Sex and the City to our older brother watching things we found out later he actually hated.  Oh lord.

Edited March 24, 2018 by Ms Blue Jay

[jsn73]

Do you know what I don't understand? Why do they show this totally dramatic Super Bowl episode 14, in which Jack dies tragically, but then they show episodes and scenes in which he still lives. I would have expected after we witnessed Jack's death, that there wouldn't be shown any scenes anymore in which he's still alive. Why did they show such a dramatic episode with his death when later scenes from his living time are shown anyway? This type of time leap doesn't fit right somehow... It would fit better if they showed sequences of his life UNTIL he dies and then stop with it. But showing him die and then jumping back to sequences where he lives, no that doesn't fit very well..

Edited April 3, 2018 by jsn73

[methodwriter85]

On 4/3/2018 at 10:12 AM, jsn73 said:

Do you know what I don't understand? Why do they show this totally dramatic Super Bowl episode 14, in which Jack dies tragically, but then they show episodes and scenes in which he still lives. I would have expected after we witnessed Jack's death, that there wouldn't be shown any scenes anymore in which he's still alive. Why did they show such a dramatic episode with his death when later scenes from his living time are shown anyway? This type of time leap doesn't fit right somehow... It would fit better if they showed sequences of his life UNTIL he dies and then stop with it. But showing him die and then jumping back to sequences where he lives, no that doesn't fit very well..

From what I understand, the show has absolutely no intention of writing Jack out, and Milo V. is number 1 on the call sheet. He lived for 50-ish years, and Milo is able to portray almost half of that (he's played Jack being as young as about 27/28), so I believe we'll see flashbacks to his life as long as this series is running.

The conceit of the show has always kind of felt like all times are happening now. 1991 is happening now. 2017 is happening now. 2035 is happening now.  Your childhood self is dealing with issues that might echo things happening in your 30's, or also in your 60's, etc etc. So in that sense, Jack's life is still a going concern, because although he doesn't live past 1998, he's living in other years which are happening now.