S04.E10: The Death Stick

[txhorns79]

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Robert and Sol begin therapy. Grace and Frankie gets a surprise when they bring gifts to a fan of their vibrators. Brianna's nemesis makes an offer.

Frankie lost me when she essentially sabotaged she and Grace's business.  It was too much like when Frankie wrecked her lube business.  The woman has no self control, is extremely selfish and just really pissed me off.  I know everything was fine by the end, but Frankie is really a terrible business partner.  And I say that as someone who likes the character! 

[debraran]

I thought the line about Ruth Bader Ginsberg Frankie says insinuating she sent her vibrator, was funny, "Be careful!, We need you!!"
 

[Bastet]

Great job casting Lorraine Toussaint; I'm not really interested in Robert and Sol's therapy sessions for them (although Robert's opening statement amused me), but I'll happily watch for her.  A couple of 20-year-olds sitting around monitoring each other's text messages is stupid.  Two people in their seventies?

I miss Playing House, so seeing Jessica St. Clair was another treat, even though Lauren is awful.

18 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

Frankie lost me when she essentially sabotaged she and Grace's business.  It was too much like when Frankie wrecked her lube business.  The woman has no self control, is extremely selfish and just really pissed me off.  I know everything was fine by the end, but Frankie is really a terrible business partner.  And I say that as someone who likes the character! 

Yeah, every time I want to think Frankie has a valid argument about Grace not treating her like a true partner, I just watch how Frankie acts as a partner and lose any sympathy.

[MissLucas]

The whole plot doesn't make much sense in the first place. I'm not a lawyer but I'm pretty sure you can't launch a sex toy without all sorts of product safety testing first and then you'll have to add all the necessary disclaimers and health warnings to the packaging/instructions. A vibrator specifically designed for the elderly would need to have a warning about the dangers of cardiac distress and Frankie and Grace should have been aware of that - or one of the three (!) lawyers in their family should have told them.  That they were shocked about the death of a customer was believable and there was some plot potential there but the writers went for unrealistic slapstick instead. Grace's 'we're going to lose our business' panic was stupid and Frankie's death stick warning labels were over-kill.  

[iMonrey]

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I know everything was fine by the end, but Frankie is really a terrible business partner.

Yes, she really is. That said, I thought it was hilarious when they showed up at the door with vagina balloons and when Julie Haggerty opened the door I immediately thought "uh-oh."

[Mom x 3]

I know it is totally in character for Frankie to go off the deep end about things, so it is a tribute to how good Tomlin is that I want to strangle Frankie every time she does it.  Grace can be overly harsh and does so frequently, but Frankie, Sol and Robert have all shown epic levels of selfishness at different times over the four seasons.  This was Frankie's episode.  

[echo.Echo.ECHO]

I'm not sure why, but I love that Grace called Frankie Frances.

[Madding crowd]

I didn’t understand why the therapist didn’t just suggest that Sol needs friends, not an open marriage. The death warning stickers were over the top but funny.

[txhorns79]

Quote

I didn’t understand why the therapist didn’t just suggest that Sol needs friends, not an open marriage.

I'm surprised the therapist didn't suggest Robert and Sol take time apart.  To me, it seems like at this point they remain together as a way to prove to naysayers that their affair, and the damage it caused, was worth it. 

[CherithCutestory]

7 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

I didn’t understand why the therapist didn’t just suggest that Sol needs friends, not an open marriage. The death warning stickers were over the top but funny.

Probably because Sol is incapable of being faithful and refuses to admit it. He cheated on Frankie through out his marriage with Robert. He cheated on Robert with Frankie. He was engaging in what he knew was flirting and hiding it.

[Clanstarling]

On 1/22/2018 at 5:40 PM, txhorns79 said:

Frankie lost me when she essentially sabotaged she and Grace's business.  It was too much like when Frankie wrecked her lube business.  The woman has no self control, is extremely selfish and just really pissed me off.  I know everything was fine by the end, but Frankie is really a terrible business partner.  And I say that as someone who likes the character! 

 

I know. This is not Frankie at her best, it's Frankie at her most maddening.

On 1/28/2018 at 9:46 AM, Mom x 3 said:

I know it is totally in character for Frankie to go off the deep end about things, so it is a tribute to how good Tomlin is that I want to strangle Frankie every time she does it.  Grace can be overly harsh and does so frequently, but Frankie, Sol and Robert have all shown epic levels of selfishness at different times over the four seasons.  This was Frankie's episode.  

Good point.

On 1/30/2018 at 8:43 AM, Madding crowd said:

I didn’t understand why the therapist didn’t just suggest that Sol needs friends, not an open marriage. The death warning stickers were over the top but funny.

Yeah, I thought going fairly directly to open marriage was an odd direction to take with a pair of elderly men who recently came out of the closet, and who were still newlyweds (and who have issues with trust in regards to faithfulness).

On 1/30/2018 at 4:01 PM, CherithCutestory said:

Probably because Sol is incapable of being faithful and refuses to admit it. He cheated on Frankie through out his marriage with Robert. He cheated on Robert with Frankie. He was engaging in what he knew was flirting and hiding it.

Not to excuse it, but the two people Sol cheated on (with each other) were both people he loved deeply and had been in a relationship with for many years. There's been no suggestion that he cheated with anyone else. Flirting is not cheating, and hiding it would likely be more to due with Robert's rigidity and distrust than anything else. And again, not to excuse it, or put the blame on Robert, but if he'd gone on the cruise, it probably wouldn't have been an issue. Heck, the guy might even have become a friend to both of them.

Edited February 2, 2018 by Clanstarling

[Madding crowd]

Yes and Sol had not indicated to this therapist that he wanted sex with someone else, just that he wanted people in his life. Robert was spending a lot of time rehearsing for the play and Sol needed company. 

[Bastet]

I think the dynamics of their prior marriages come into play - Robert and Grace had their own interests, but Frankie and Sol did almost everything together.  Robert and Grace didn't have a good marriage, while Frankie and Sol did (you know, other than that whole thing where the husband is secretly gay and in love with someone else).  So there can be a tendency to think doing things separately indicates a problem.  Especially in Sol, who spent so long having a spouse who liked the same things he did. 

To me, the solution to this "problem" (which is not, to my mind, a problem per se in the first place) is to learn how to enjoy doing things alone or doing them with the people in your life who also enjoy them/meeting new friends who share those interests.  So, yeah, I thought a leap to "well, how 'bout an open marriage?" was quick, because in those therapy scenes, the writers conflated the "we like different things" issue with the "because we were closeted for so long, and then married each other, there's a degree to which we're like high-school sweethearts who married without ever dating anyone else" issue that didn't get addressed in the same way.

[Blakeston]

Frankie's idiocy had be wishing someone would smack some sense into her (like that scene in Airplane!, when the passenger is panicking and all of those people line up to slap her.)

But I was also very irritated at Grace's stupidity. So one person had a heart attack while using the product, and her reaction is to go to the press and announce it to the world? WTF? (If Julie Haggerty's character had said, "I'm going on social media to tell everyone I know that the vibrator killed my mother," then maybe that might have made some sense.)

And did no one understand that just because someone has a heart attack while using a product, that doesn't mean that the product was in any way responsible?

[CherithCutestory]

9 hours ago, Blakeston said:

Frankie's idiocy had be wishing someone would smack some sense into her (like that scene in Airplane!, when the passenger is panicking and all of those people line up to slap her.)

But I was also very irritated at Grace's stupidity. So one person had a heart attack while using the product, and her reaction is to go to the press and announce it to the world? WTF? (If Julie Haggerty's character had said, "I'm going on social media to tell everyone I know that the vibrator killed my mother," then maybe that might have made some sense.)

And did no one understand that just because someone has a heart attack while using a product, that doesn't mean that the product was in any way responsible?

I think Grace did the right thing. Yes, there was a chance this would never get out. But this is a good story. An old woman masturbated herself to death*. And I think it definitely would have ended up on social media eventually.  In today's world it's almost inevitable that it would. She got out ahead of it rather than playing catch-up when the story blew up. I can see both sides. There is wisdom in just waiting to see how it plays out. But Grace is always a proactive person. And I don't think it was foolish. Plus, it turned out to be great publicity. 

And Julie Haggerty wasn't the woman's daughter. She was just a neighbor who was there to care for a pet. Which I only point out because it sheds light on Grace's choice. This wasn't something the family was saying within between themselves. This was a neighbor who was spreading it to strangers.

*Yes, I know that's not really what happened but it's the hook.

Edited February 5, 2018 by CherithCutestory

[Blakeston]

39 minutes ago, CherithCutestory said:

I think Grace did the right thing. Yes, there was a chance this would never get out. But this is a good story. An old woman masturbated herself to death*.

But would people really blame the vibrator for that? It's not like it had shoddy wiring and electrocuted her. She could have just as easily had a heart attack while watching TV. In that case, no one would try to take the TV off the market.

After hearing about her heart attack, people might think to themselves, "A woman with a bad heart should know her limits." But I can't see a lot of people saying, "Something's wrong with that brand of vibrator!"

IIRC, Julie Haggerty's character didn't even know the name of the vibrator, so it was very premature to assume that she was going to go online and blame the brand - and that anyone would take it seriously.

[MissLucas]

Too bad this aired before 'This Is Us' gave crock-pots a bad name. Grace could have learned a thing or two from the #crock-pot is innocent-campaign. (As I said above the whole set-up was idiotic as every gadget designed to elevate a customer's heart-rate has to come with plenty of warnings and disclaimers.)

Edited February 5, 2018 by MissLucas

[CherithCutestory]

5 hours ago, Blakeston said:

But would people really blame the vibrator for that? It's not like it had shoddy wiring and electrocuted her. She could have just as easily had a heart attack while watching TV. In that case, no one would try to take the TV off the market.

You never know what people would do. A woman in my office today told me she was getting rid of her crock pot due to This Is Us and the dangers (I told her about the campaign). So you never know. The idea that old people shouldn't be getting that much stimulation could absolutely come up. And this vibrator is specifically targeted at older women. If people in your exact market die from over use of your product then that could hurt your business.

But they didn't. And Grace got great publicity out of it. But she knew the story would go viral because the hook was too good. And she correctly got out in front of it.

Grace's strategy was perfectly sound.

Edited February 6, 2018 by CherithCutestory

[Blakeston]

On 2/5/2018 at 7:02 PM, CherithCutestory said:

You never know what people would do. A woman in my office today told me she was getting rid of her crock pot due to This Is Us and the dangers (I told her about the campaign). So you never know. The idea that old people shouldn't be getting that much stimulation could absolutely come up. And this vibrator is specifically targeted at older women. If people in your exact market die from over use of your product then that could hurt your business.

 

But that's exactly my issue - because you never know what someone will do, assuming that a particular individual is going to lead a PR campaign against you is premature.

People die using all sorts of products, but I've never heard of any of their makers coming forward to alert the media about it - unless they were legally required to, or they had good reason to believe the product was dangerous.

If someone had a heart attack while using a Treadmill, and I suggested to NordicTrack's PR department that they should tell the press about it to get ahead of the story, they'd laugh me out of the office.

Edited February 9, 2018 by Blakeston

[debraran]

I think what they didn't do, is what you see now on everything (and I thought a legality) to put a warning, not like Frankie's neon light version, but a warning that if you have heart issues, etc please check with your doctor. I see so many seemingly dumb warnings on products, I just thought you had too. ; )

[CherithCutestory]

On 2/9/2018 at 3:20 PM, Blakeston said:

If someone had a heart attack while using a Treadmill, and I suggested to NordicTrack's PR department that they should tell the press about it to get ahead of the story, they'd laugh me out of the office.

NordicTrack isn't geared toward old people. They have a very specific and small market that relies on social media and word of mouth.

When an elderly woman had an obscure lawsuit against McDonald's for giving her third degree burns after they had been warned repeatedly that their coffee was so hot it was severely hurting the elderly McDonald's absolutely went to the press. And they were able to turn the case into such a mockery that people still blithely dismiss it as suing them for coffee being hot.

[Clanstarling]

31 minutes ago, CherithCutestory said:

NordicTrack isn't geared toward old people. They have a very specific and small market that relies on social media and word of mouth.

This old person uses NordicTrack daily.

Nevertheless, pretty much every exercise product, or other products that raise heart levels, have disclaimers and instructions to check with your doctor first before using them. Like app and website terms of use, no one pays them much mind, but the manufacturers are covered.

As for the McDonald's case - I'm not sure where I stand with that one. I've never considered placing a cup of hot coffee between my legs because (to me) it's easy to anticipate that particular accident, so part of me is not that understanding, while the other part recognizes that their coffee (like their fruit pies) are lava hot and shouldn't be.

[snarktini]

On 1/30/2018 at 8:43 AM, Madding crowd said:

I didn’t understand why the therapist didn’t just suggest that Sol needs friends, not an open marriage.

100%. Felt like we jumped a ton of steps between "find ways to bond and connect" to "welp you might need to make a radical change".

On 2/3/2018 at 6:35 PM, Bastet said:

I think the dynamics of their prior marriages come into play - Robert and Grace had their own interests, but Frankie and Sol did almost everything together.  Robert and Grace didn't have a good marriage, while Frankie and Sol did (you know, other than that whole thing where the husband is secretly gay and in love with someone else).  So there can be a tendency to think doing things separately indicates a problem.  Especially in Sol, who spent so long having a spouse who liked the same things he did.

Astute observation!

I think Robert and Sol do have something there to figure out. Sol thinks of Frankie as his best friend, and Robert as his lover. And I get that! My last partner and I were a deep body and heart match -- we felt so safe and loved together. We just fit. But we honestly didn't have much in common, we struggled to find things we both wanted to do or even talk about sometimes. It's not what broke us up, but I did have questions about how that would work in the long run. Could friends fulfill all those other needs, or did I need a partner who could share more of my interests? I still don't know the answer.

Edited March 16, 2023 by snarktini