Continuity, Nitpicks, Unanswered Questions and Timeline Headaches: When Did That Honeycrisp Apple Come From

[Shanna Marie]

I'm confused about something. Robin tells Regina that a job he did inadvertently led to Marian's death, but when Sidney showed Regina who Marian was, she was being sentenced to death for helping hide Snow or speaking out at Regina or something.

My guess is that Marian got caught up in some kind of "tell me where Snow is or you all die" sweep while she was on that job, and that's what led to her being paraded around as a prisoner (she was already under arrest when Emma saw her), and Robin just assumed that since she didn't come back, she was dead and it was because of the job. Knowing Robin, I'm guessing that something shiny distracted him and he just didn't get around to looking for her. He seems to be an out-of-sight, out-of-mind kind of guy. He'd give up on her and feel he had no choice to move on if she was five minutes late coming home from the market.

 

I thought of something else odd in the whole how did Hook find out about and get to Rumple and Belle at the town line and how did he get to Manhattan so quickly. He was injured during all that. Some of the broken ribs ascribed to the car accident probably came from Rumple's beat-down, and he was already banged up and limping at the town line. Then he was limping even worse and in obvious pain, to the point he had to hold his side to take a breath, on the day he sailed to New York. So a guy who'd just been beaten within an inch of his life managed to get to the town line right after someone in a car and before other people with a car, and then after being hit by a car and being barely able to walk or take a deep breath, with broken ribs, he manages to sail a ship from Maine to New York, solo, in less time than it took Emma, Rumple, and Henry to fly there. In an unfamiliar world. With one hand.

 

Maybe that guardian angel/fairy godfather he has looking after him pitched in.

[FierceAfroChick]

Still watching S4 and wondering…is it necessary for Killian to wear that hook all the time?  He’s wearing a dangerous weapon while doing something as mundane as strolling down the street with Emma or hanging out at Grannie’s.  Why not wear the fake hand during downtime?

[Amerilla]

Maybe that guardian angel/fairy godfather he has looking after him pitched in.

 

I don't know that's much of a fairy godmother. The sum total of all these amazing feats was to get him beat up by Belle (hit in the head with a gaff), beat up by Rumpel (with the Cane of Pain), hit by a car, and beat up by Emma (metal umbrella stand to the skull). All in one 36 hour period.

 

I got hit by a car about the same way he did when I was 13. Believe me,  you don't feel like walking around the next day. Or in my case, for the next five weeks. And I didn't even break anything - just soft tissue and muscle damage, plus a third of the skin on my back.

[Shanna Marie]

is it necessary for Killian to wear that hook all the time?  He’s wearing a dangerous weapon while doing something as mundane as strolling down the street with Emma or hanging out at Grannie’s.  Why not wear the fake hand during downtime?

I suspect that the main answer is that so we'll be sure to know he's Captain Hook. It's the same reason he wore the pirate clothes for two seasons before finally getting modern clothes, and even then instead of having clothes, like normal people, it's more of a "costume," where he wears the same thing other than slightly different shirts. And it's the same reason Elsa spent a couple of weeks wearing the iconic dress from the movie instead of getting more practical clothes. There are some characters they seem to want to keep in some kind of iconic look. Really, now that they've shown that his hand is still in town and it can be reattached magically, and now that we've seen that not only Rumple but also Emma and Regina can heal magically, there's no reason he can't just have his hand back, since he now knows Rumple was playing him with the talk about the hand influencing him (not that this made any sense to begin with because he was more evil with the hook than with the hand).

 

I don't know that's much of a fairy godmother. The sum total of all these amazing feats was to get him beat up by Belle (hit in the head with a gaff), beat up by Rumpel (with the Cane of Pain), hit by a car, and beat up by Emma (metal umbrella stand to the skull). All in one 36 hour period.

But he survived. There's never been much reason for Rumple to keep him alive, and that car accident should have done worse damage to him. Like you said, he shouldn't have been up and around the next day and definitely shouldn't have been singlehandedly (in his case, literally) sailing a ship within 36 hours. No matter how bad a scrape Hook gets into, he lives and bounces back pretty quickly. Yeah, it's because he's a regular character and they aren't going to kill him, but he keeps getting into these awful scrapes that he shouldn't survive, and some stroke of luck always saves him. It seems like someone has to be looking after him to mitigate the damage and keep him alive.

[Curio]

Random question, but does anyone remember the color of the magical smoke cloud that was Snowing's Dark Curse 2.0? I think I remember a scene where Zelena swooped in on her magic broom and threw in some green potion into a giant cauldron, but did we actually see a giant curse cloud go over The Enchanted Forest after that? Would the clouds have been green? 

[KingOfHearts]

 

Random question, but does anyone remember the color of the magical smoke cloud that was Snowing's Dark Curse 2.0? I think I remember a scene where Zelena swooped in on her magic broom and threw in some green potion into a giant cauldron, but did we actually see a giant curse cloud go over The Enchanted Forest after that? Would the clouds have been green?

I remember it being the same color as the First Curse. Purple with tinges of green and lighter purples here and there.

Edited September 3, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Curio]

Ah yep, it appears you're right. They're mostly purple with green lightning here and there. (I guess I should have just checked the screenshots sooner.)

[Camera One]

Apparently according Adam (on twitter), Zelena downloaded Marian's memories as well when she glamored herself. I know... 

 

So this means when Rumple morphed into Hook, he could find out all his innermost thoughts and secrets?  What the hell...

[YaddaYadda]

So this means when Rumple morphed into Hook, he could find out all his innermost thoughts and secrets?  What the hell...

Wow! Thank you for that, NOT!

 

This is beyond creepy. And given the hatred between them and the reason behind it? It's just...yup!

[OnceUponAJen]

So, if Hook found someone or some way to glamour him into Rumple, he could find out all the Dark One's secrets?

[Serena]

I want to go back to Rumple knowing Hook's thoughts a second. So does he have all the memories of Hook sleeping with his wife? And... whatever he did... with Emma? Ewwwww.

[Rumsy4]

So this means when Rumple morphed into Hook, he could find out all his innermost thoughts and secrets?  What the hell...

 

Eww... hope not! 

 

These were Adam's actual words: "after glamouring herself, she used magic to learn everything she could about person she was impersonating"

 

So maybe there's was an additional step. Who knows? It's all a load of hooey anyway. 

[orza]

Eww... hope not! 

 

These were Adam's actual words: "after glamouring herself, she used magic to learn everything she could about person she was impersonating"

 

So maybe there's was an additional step. Who knows? It's all a load of hooey anyway. 

No maybe about it. Adam says there explicitly that Zelena needed two steps to complete her impersonation.

 

All Rumple did was glamour himself to look like Hook, the same thing he did to Regina in The Evil Queen and Hook and Emma in Snow Drifts.

[Rumsy4]

Thinking of glamor spells, Cora impersonated Lancelot in the EF, and seemed to know all about Lancelot and Snow's connection. Maybe she too accessed Lancelot's memories when she impersonated him. She too was supposed to have killed Lance before she glamored herself to look like him. Like mother, like daughter, eh? 

Edited September 5, 2015 by Rumsy4

[Camera One]

Maybe if you murdered/will murder the person you impersonate, then you can extract all their memories.  As usual, it seems all too easy for magic-users/villains.  At least make the glamor-spell caster work to impersonate someone accurately.  So when exactly will "Magic always has a price" kick in for Zelena?  

Edited September 5, 2015 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

Maybe the writers should explain it in the show instead of clarifying it on Twitter. This isn't exactly an obscure tidbit you ask about a few years after the show ends. It's part of a major plot point.

[Rumsy4]

Maybe if you murdered/will murder the person you impersonate, then you can extract all their memories.  

 

That's what it seems to be. Like making a Horcrux. ;-)

 

Maybe the writers should explain it in the show instead of clarifying it on Twitter. This isn't exactly an obscure tidbit you ask about a few years after the show ends. It's part of a major plot point.

 

Exactly. How much can you clarify or explain with a 140 character limit? But then, A&E are not all that keen on details. With their current style or writing, any BS explanation can be made up to justify discrepancies and complications.

Edited September 5, 2015 by Rumsy4

[Camera One]

I wonder if he keeps tracks of these answers he makes up for Twitter.

 

I did find it interesting they went back to explain why Robin changed appearance, and that they explained it 2 seasons later.  So I suppose they do go back to unanswered questions once a bluecorn moon.

Edited September 5, 2015 by Camera One

[Mari]

But, then why do the elaborate Cora seance?  After all, Regina was the instrument of Cora's death.  Wouldn't it be easier to have done a memory extraction instead of the seance?  Especially since you don't seem to use a particular ritual or special ingredients.  Zelena seems to have done it with a look or two at Marian's dusty death spot.

[Camera One]

Now we might see a flashback to the elaborate ritual Zelena did in Season 7.

[Rumsy4]

But, then why do the elaborate Cora seance?  After all, Regina was the instrument of Cora's death.  Wouldn't it be easier to have done a memory extraction instead of the seance? 

 

Because they wanted Regina to call out Snow as Cora's murderer yet again, while Snow's husband and daughter stood by in awkward silence.

[Shanna Marie]

Because they wanted Regina to call out Snow as Cora's murderer yet again, while Snow's husband and daughter stood by in awkward silence.

Funny how the fact that Regina arranged the murder of Snow's father has never come up. I got the impression that Snow knew very well she was behind it, even if the genie got the blame. Even if no one else knows for sure, Regina knows, and it makes her look worse to know that she killed Snow's father while she's whining about Snow killing her mother.

 

On another note, while I've been scrolling through 3A, something struck me: Getting squid ink was the whole reason behind the situation with Hook, Ursula and Poseidon. But Neal was able to just pick up a shell on the beach in Neverland, summon a squid, and get the ink. So why was it suddenly such a difficult thing to come by for Hook?

[Curio]

Funny how the fact that Regina arranged the murder of Snow's father has never come up.

Because Regina did that when she was a totally different character the Evil Queen. As long as you own the fact that you're a villain and relish in your evilness, you get a pass on all the bad things you do in the past on this show.

 

On another note, while I've been scrolling through 3A, something struck me: Getting squid ink was the whole reason behind the situation with Hook, Ursula and Poseidon. But Neal was able to just pick up a shell on the beach in Neverland, summon a squid, and get the ink. So why was it suddenly such a difficult thing to come by for Hook?

 

You must have missed out on that episode of Once Upon a Time in Offscreenville. When Bae was still a Lost Boy in Neverland, he freed a giant squid that got caught in a net and they became unlikely friends. The squid repaid the favor by offering Bae its extremely rare squid ink any time Bae used the magic conch shell. It was so difficult for Hook to come by because the net the squid got trapped in accidentally fell off the Jolly Roger during a bad storm, so the squid always avoided the pirates after that incident.

 

Isn't connecting the dots fun?

Edited September 9, 2015 by Curio

[Amerilla]

"Baelfire and the Magic Cephalopod" sounds more interesting than most of Season 4.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Because Regina did that when she was a totally different character the Evil Queen. As long as you own the fact that you're a villain and relish in your evilness, you get a pass on all the bad things you do in the past on this show.

I might be able to buy that without thinking too hard if they were consistent about it. But we've seen firsthand all the evil deeds Regina has committed in Storybrooke that are right up the Evil Queen's alley. Couple that will all the flip-flopping after she was supposedly redeemed (like plotting Marian's murder), and you find the folly in the dichotomy fairly quickly.

Edited September 8, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Curio]

I might be able to buy that without thinking too hard if they were consistent about it.

 

Thus the sarcasm. :)

"Baelfire and the Magic Cephalopod" sounds more interesting than most of Season 4.

The sad thing is that we even had a person walking around with tentacle arms for a majority of Season 4 and it was still boring as hell.

Edited September 8, 2015 by Curio

[Camera One]

On another note, while I've been scrolling through 3A, something struck me: Getting squid ink was the whole reason behind the situation with Hook, Ursula and Poseidon. But Neal was able to just pick up a shell on the beach in Neverland, summon a squid, and get the ink. So why was it suddenly such a difficult thing to come by for Hook?

 

They could have at least asked Poseidon for some squid ink when he visited Storybrooke.  Rumple immobilized, problem solved.  

[YaddaYadda]

I've actually been wondering about the squid ink and if it's not something they might use on Emma eventually.

 

I think they should feed Zelena a spoon full of it to mellow that psycho out. Cuffs are nice and all, but they should take extra precaution.

[Mari]

I think they should feed Zelena a spoon full of it to mellow that psycho out. Cuffs are nice and all, but they should take extra precaution.

A nice big spoonful in her pudding.

 

Or applesauce.  She's a Mills, so apples are probably okay.

[YaddaYadda]

She's a Mills, so apples are probably okay.

 

Green ones.

[Camera One]

Very tiny nitpick compared to the usual.  I was watching a flashback clip from "Smash the Mirror", the scene where Elsa prepares a chocolate surprise for Anna but it's Evil Shattered Sight Anna who enters.  Elsa said it's too bad the ice cream melted, but why didn't she just keep it frozen until Anna got there?  

[YaddaYadda]

I haven't watched that episode in a while, but wasn't Elsa wearing her anti-magic gloves?

[Camera One]

Yeah, but if she was preparing a meal, why not use a bit of magic to keep things cold?

[Curio]

Maybe because unlike most of the magical users on this show who use their magic all willy nilly to destroy colorful bird paintings or poof away from a situation where they don't feel like talking to someone, Elsa actually follows the whole "magic comes with a price" warning and only uses her magic if it's absolutely necessary? 

[Shanna Marie]

This has bugged me ever since the episode aired, but when Ariel rescued an unconscious Hook after Ursula flung him overboard, how did teeny, tiny Ariel manage to get Hook out of the water, onto the Jolly Roger (was she docked at the time, or still sitting out in the harbor?), and then down the ladder into the captain's cabin? Hook's slightly built, but he's still much bigger than she is, and even if mermaids have some kind of super strength, he'd have been dead weight and probably unwieldy just due to size. Then there's the fact that it would have been at least a couple of months since she'd used legs, so she wouldn't have been that steady on her feet. Plus, getting him out of the water would have meant getting him either up onto the dock, which seems to be pretty high above the water, or getting him all the way up onto the ship. Wouldn't she have just dumped him on the dock and tried to wake him there, or on the deck, rather than dragging him into the cabin? And all this being hauled about didn't wake him up? That would be a serious head injury for him to be out so long, especially with all that going on, but I suppose we're in the territory of Hollywood Head Injuries there, where someone can be knocked profoundly unconscious for long stretches of time and show no ill effects or even concussion symptoms.

[Camera One]

Flounder and friends helped.

[Shanna Marie]

Flounder and friends helped.

Yet again, Once Upon a Time in Offscreenville is more interesting than the actual episode, and that was a good episode.

 

I now have a very entertaining mental imagine of Sebastian the crab with one claw clamped onto Hook's collar, dragging him along the dock. And because Storybrooke is a ghost town populated only by the main characters these days, no one noticed a little crab and a chick in a bikini hauling around an unconscious pirate.

[orza]

Mermaids can swim great distances between realms. That would require either great strength and endurance or magic. Ariel possessed one or the other, either of which would no doubt be sufficient to wrangle a man onto the ship and into his bunk, plus ropes, pulleys, nets and crew members still loyal to Hook.

[Amerilla]

In Neverland, was HalluciBelle always Pan? Or did she start out as Rumpel's spirit guide and Pan glommed on to it later?

 

This might have been answered and I forgot, but did they explain how Pan knew all about all - even people like Belle, whom he could never have met?

[YaddaYadda]

No, I think the hallucination was the shadow playing tricks on Rumple. I could be totally wrong. There's a lot I've tried to forget, including how what Rumple did most was cry over the doll. Giving parents on this show is not all that it's cracked out to be.

[KingOfHearts]

There's this random character in True North who works as a records clerk in Storybrooke. His name is Mr. Krzyszkowski but, as he puts it, everyone calls him "K". What happened to this character? Was he meant to be recurring or a future-revealed fairy tale person? What's odd is that he gets a whole scene that could have been explained in brief dialogue and he's even given a nickname. Afterwards he's never mentioned or seen again.

[Curio]

What's odd is that he gets a whole scene that could have been explained in brief dialogue and he's even given a nickname. Afterwards he's never mentioned or seen again.

 

I think this can describe a lot of the floating guest stars that appear and then disappear on the show.

[KingOfHearts]

The code to the basement at the hospital can't be Henry's birthday. The code is 71572, so Henry should be like 43 years old. This is unless Regina changed it from his birthday before 4x01 then changed it back some time in S4.

Edited September 28, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Mari]

A couple of things have occurred to me.

 

a)  As long as she was giving Regina the dagger anyway, why didn't Emma have Regina order her to not hurt anyone or use magic, except in self-defense or defense of others?  (Or a similar order.)  Emma asking it would get around that pesky free-will thing, and if using the magic is what's opening Emma up to the influence, why not cut that off?

 

b)  Since Zelena's glamour was so thorough that it physically changed her heart, too, wouldn't it change her ova, too?  So wouldn't Baby Green look more like Marian, since the glamour apparently went down to the cellular level, and was combined with Robin's DNA and started growing before Zelena changed back?

Edited September 30, 2015 by Mari

[MaiLuna]

 

b)  Since Zelena's glamour was so thorough that it physically changed her heart, too, wouldn't it change her ova, too?  So wouldn't Baby Green look more like Marian, since the glamour apparently went down to the cellular level, and was combined with Robin's DNA and started growing before Zelena changed back?

Only on this show does a question like this need to be answered.

[Mari]

Only on this show does a question like this need to be answered.

Yup.

 

I just kept thinking "So, the amulet effectively made Zelena into Marian.  It was strong enough to remake her heart, and to continue working while they were in New York, making Baby Green.  Doesn't that sort of mean that Zelena isn't actually having her own baby, but is incubating Marian's?"

 

Another question I had:

Why not portal back to Storybrooke, build a nice little cottage just over the Storybrooke line, and have Emma stay there while others research how to permanently deDark One her?

Edited September 30, 2015 by Mari

[Shanna Marie]

Doesn't that sort of mean that Zelena isn't actually having her own baby, but is incubating Marian's?"

That would give Robin more or less clear title to the kid, so he and Regina could take it and raise it without taking a baby away from a biological parent.

[Serena]

b)  Since Zelena's glamour was so thorough that it physically changed her heart, too, wouldn't it change her ova, too?  So wouldn't Baby Green look more like Marian, since the glamour apparently went down to the cellular level, and was combined with Robin's DNA and started growing before Zelena changed back?

I don't know that the glamour changed how Zelena actually looked; rather, how others saw Zelena. The spell affected others' perception of her, not her real physical self.

[Shanna Marie]

When Hook tried to take Zelena's heart, she said she placed a protection spell on it "eons ago." But Regina was able to rip out her heart when Zarian was under the freezing spell. A protection spell that doesn't work when you're unconscious and helpless is pretty pointless. Or is "eons" a couple of months, after the freezing incident?

[Curio]

Wow, so that heart stealing scene had two completely different retcons within a 20 second timespan.

 

The writers would probably brush it off and say the protection spell only deflects people who steal hearts for nefarious reasons, not well-intentioned reasons. Or that the glamour spell temporarily stopped the heart protection.