Continuity, Nitpicks, Unanswered Questions and Timeline Headaches: When Did That Honeycrisp Apple Come From

[Curio]

11 hours ago, orza said:

This a consistency paradox of time travel. Emma and Hook as the time travelers remember events that didn't happened because their presence and actions prevented those events from happening. We as viewers remember those events because we are not part of the story.

Emma and Hook also remember those events though, not just the viewers. The original events did happen at one point in time, just not the current timeline. Hook is lucky enough to have lived through both timelines, so his original timeline didn't completely vanish from existence. If the original timeline got obliterated from existence, shouldn't Hook and Emma forget it ever happened? But because they do remember, that means on some philosophical level, the original timeline still exists somewhere in the past.

Actually...now that I think about it, Zelena technically lived through both timelines as well, right? So shouldn't she have memories of Regina executing Marian in the original timeline and herself killing Marian in the updated timeline? Why wouldn't she use that information as ammo in 4A to pit Robin against Regina? (Oh, right. Retcon.)

Edited July 14, 2016 by Curio

[orza]

2 hours ago, Curio said:

Emma and Hook also remember those events though, not just the viewers. The original events did happen at one point in time, just not the current timeline. Hook is lucky enough to have lived through both timelines, so his original timeline didn't completely vanish from existence. If the original timeline got obliterated from existence, shouldn't Hook and Emma forget it ever happened? But because the do remember, that means on some philosophical level, the original timeline still exists somewhere in the past.

Actually...now that I think about it, Zelena technically lived through both timelines as well, right? So shouldn't she have memories of Regina executing Marian in the original timeline and herself killing Marian in the updated timeline? Why wouldn't she use that information as ammo in 4A to pit Robin against Regina? (Oh, right. Retcon.)

I know that Hook and Emma remember those events, I just said that.  However, recalling those events is not proof that they happened. That's why it's called a paradox of time travel. This is just variation of the grandfather paradox. The action of the time travelers create a consistency paradox that cannot be resolved. Some people have a hard time wrapping their heads around the idea of a temporal paradox and want to explain it away logically, but that is not possible. That's the nature of a paradox.

A&E were very clear at the time that this is not a multiverse, meaning that there are no alternate or parallel timelines that spring into existence when the time travelers change things. In a singleverse, which is what we have here, the timeline is mutable and can be "rewritten" much like the Author can rewrite a story at will on the show.

[Rumsy4]

1 hour ago, orza said:

I know that Hook and Emma remember those events, I just said that.  However, recalling those events is not proof that they happened. That's why it's called a paradox of time travel. This is just variation of the grandfather paradox. The action of the time travelers create a consistency paradox that cannot be resolved. Some people have a hard time wrapping their heads around the idea of a temporal paradox and want to explain it away logically, but that is not possible. That's the nature of a paradox.

A&E were very clear at the time that this is not a multiverse, meaning that there are no alternate or parallel timelines that spring into existence when the time travelers change things. In a singleverse, which is what we have here, the timeline is mutable and can be "rewritten" much like the Author can rewrite a story at will on the show.

I take it you are saying that if Emma and Hook hadn't rescued Marian, there is a chance she might have escaped Regina's dungeon and reunited with Robin? But we know that's not true. As you said yourself, there are no multiverses in ONCE, which each choice branching off a parallel universe. The writing is clear that even before Emma and Hook time-travelled, Robin was a widower. The time-travel adventure showed us that Marian was to be exucuted by Regina. There is no reason to suppose otherwise. In the altered time-line, Zelena ended up killing her. In either case, one of the Mills sisters ended Marian's life. Even if we fully ignore the original timeline, to say that Emma is the reason Robin was a widower seems to ignore other players like Regina (who imprisoned Marian) and Zelena (who ultimately killed her). 

[orza]

I didn't say Emma made Robin a widower. Someone claimed that Regina killed Marion and that is simply not true. That never happened due to Emma and Hook time traveling.

[Rumsy4]

10 minutes ago, orza said:

I didn't say Emma made Robin a widower. Someone claimed that Regina killed Marion and that is simply not true. That never happened due to Emma and Hook time traveling.

I was also taking into account your statement in the fandom thread that Robin was only available to data Regina because Emma had altered the timeline. Which I disagree with. Emma plucked Marian away from certain death, not when she was somewhere safe. Sure, Regina did not kill Marian in the altered timeline (surely if you agree that Emma altered things, it means this was something she did alter?). It's not to Regina's credit that she didn't execute Marian, but I agree that she certainly doesn't bear moral responsibility for killing her anymore. That's now conveniently on Zelena's head. Although considering both Robin and Marian are now dead, I wonder why the writers even bothered to shift responsibility from one sister to another!

Edited July 14, 2016 by Rumsy4

[Curio]

5 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

if you agree that Emma altered things, it means this was something she did alter?

This was the point I was trying to make. Emma altering an event means that there had to have been an existing event to alter. The new timeline (where Zelena is Marian's murderer) can't exist unless the original timeline (where Regina is Marian's murderer) happens first. The original timeline may not exist now, but it did exist in the past at one point.

[Shanna Marie]

5 minutes ago, Curio said:

The original timeline may not exist now, but it did exist in the past at one point.

Yeah, that's why I was saying that when Robin and Regina were having their fireside date and he was talking about how painful it was losing Marian, at that moment, Regina was the one who'd killed Marian. They had no way of knowing that at the time, since Regina didn't know the identity of the woman she'd executed and she couldn't remember all the people she'd killed. By the time Emma brought Marian to Storybrooke, the timeline had changed, so Regina had only imprisoned Marian (which kept her from returning to her family, so Regina was still responsible for keeping Marian from her family) and sentenced her to execution, then Emma had freed her and Zelena had murdered her. Regina would have executed Marian if Emma hadn't been there to intervene. I'm pretty sure the writers meant all that irony -- they showed us Robin talking about Marian's death to Regina, then soon afterward we saw Regina tormenting a woman, and then Emma saw her again in the dungeon, and then at the end, it turned out to be Marian (if you didn't already recognize her from her previous brief and distant appearance). I think it was meant to be an "ooh!" moment, and not just because Emma screwed up Regina's relationship with Robin by bringing his wife to town. Unfortunately, they didn't follow up on that beyond the next season premiere and Regina seeing for herself what she'd done. It never mattered to Robin, and Regina doesn't seem to have felt bad about having caused Robin's pain. I guess once they got their shocking moment out of it, they were distracted by something shiny.

[Rumsy4]

20 minutes ago, Curio said:

This was the point I was trying to make. Emma altering an event means that there had to have been an existing event to alter. The new timeline (where Zelena is Marian's murderer) can't exist unless the original timeline (where Regina is Marian's murderer) happens first. The original timeline may not exist now, but it did exist in the past at one point.

Agreed. Much as A&E tend to do so at times, we can't ignore the context of events. Otherwise we may as well be watching the Twilight Zone, where one episode has no connection with another. 

[KAOS Agent]

If you're going with the theory that the original timeline doesn't exist, then the entire show prior to the S3 finale never happened. And if that never happened, then Zelena never cast the curse, which means Emma never went back in time, so there's your paradox. It doesn't matter anyway because Marian was dead in both timelines. The only thing that changed is who killed her.

[Camera One]

Unless the universe has a way of self correction, I don't see how there weren't a million butterfly effects created.  While the S3 finale was fun in a sort of way, I still find it a bit hard to swallow.  But then again, that was the most logical scenario ever, compared to the S4 finale, whereby, if The Author writes an alternate universe, everyone ends up literally trapped inside a book.  

[andromeda331]

5 hours ago, KAOS Agent said:

If you're going with the theory that the original timeline doesn't exist, then the entire show prior to the S3 finale never happened. And if that never happened, then Zelena never cast the curse, which means Emma never went back in time, so there's your paradox. It doesn't matter anyway because Marian was dead in both timelines. The only thing that changed is who killed her.

Poor Marion changed from being murdered by her husband's new girlfriend to being murdered by her husband's rapist.  Her husband later gets murdered by his rapist's boyfriend.

[mjgchick]

Robin and Marian did not have a chance with those monsters. 

[Camera One]

The M word is hurtful.  Remember Monster = Misunderstood.  

[KingOfHearts]

There are, of course, inconsistencies with the Dark One appearances. Emma, Rumple, Zozo and Nimue got sparkly but Hook didn't. If it's about truly embracing the darkness, why not let the Dark Swan appearance be part of Emma's ruse? Why did she have to instantly transform upon saving Hook? Dark Swan isn't crocodile skin, so it would have fit better as something Emma made up to appear intimidating. 

(As a side note, it's difficult to imagine Sparkly!Hook)

Edited July 16, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[YaddaYadda]

honestly, I think they probably thought about the makeup and decided against it because they would have had to make up 3 actors all sparkly at one point. I think it was just the lazy choice. 

I don't care if Nimue crushed Merlin's heart using Hook. The moment that heart was ground to dust, he should have turned all sparkly, and the second Emma turned Hook into a dark one, she should have gotten sparkly skin.

In 5x10 alone, we would have had Rumple/Emma as sparkly dark, then Emma/Nimue/Hook, then Emma/Rumple/Hook.

That's a lot of sparkly.

[Curio]

I still feel cheated over never seeing a full-on sparkly Dark Hook and Dark Emma. Emma's skin started to sparkle in 5x02, so why didn't she go full sparkly mode when she forced Hook into a Dark One? All she got was some lighter foundation, bleached eyebrows, and a slicked back bun. And Colin almost has too pretty of a face, so we needed to see him turn more ugly/sparkly/lizardy to really understand that an evil entity took over his body. How is it that Emma physically transformed more than Hook when she went dark because of love, but Hook went dark because of revenge? I'm sorry, but changing the way Colin parts his hair doesn't cut it for me.

Edited July 16, 2016 by Curio

[Camera One]

It would have been too confusing to the audience if they all looked sparkly.  "Which one is Rumple," we would all ask.

Remember magic works differently for different people, under different circumstances, and depending on which hour of the day it is, how many mosquitoes are in the air, and the relative humidity.

Hope that helps!

[Shanna Marie]

Really, if they're being consistent, none of them should have been sparkly or otherwise physically altered once they'd been brought back to Storybrooke by the curse. The curse transforms everyone into a "human" form that fits into our world. Rumple looks totally normal and just wears a suit when he's in Storybrooke. So even if Emma went sparkly while in the fairy tale world, she should have looked like her normal self once she'd been brought back to Storybrooke by the curse. And there was no reason, other than perhaps personal preference, for Hook to have changed his appearance -- the part in his hair, the less shiny jacket, the darker jewelry.

[Curio]

18 minutes ago, Camera One said:

"Which one is Rumple," we would all ask.

It's just so difficult to distinguish Nimue from Rumple. All people with sparkly skin look so much alike! ;)

11 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

Really, if they're being consistent, none of them should have been sparkly or otherwise physically altered once they'd been brought back to Storybrooke by the curse.

I wanted the sparkly lizard stuff in Camelot. It still confuses me why Emma purposely chose to look like a rockstar in Storybrooke when she could have easily disguised herself the entire time...but whatever.

[Shanna Marie]

32 minutes ago, Curio said:

I wanted the sparkly lizard stuff in Camelot. It still confuses me why Emma purposely chose to look like a rockstar in Storybrooke when she could have easily disguised herself the entire time...but whatever.

For consistency, they should have had the sparkly moment in Camelot, then Hook and Emma should both have looked "normal" in Storybrooke. Head Rumple might still have been sparkly even in Storybrooke, since he was representing the inner essence of the Dark One. But if there was no physical change in Rumple when he returned to being the Dark One, there should have been no obvious difference in Emma while she was in Storybrooke. They did that to look cool rather than for any story reason. Hook's change of clothes was just silly. I don't think even Rumple changed clothes when he changed and went sparkly in the first place, did he? He later changed his wardrobe because he'd gone from poor peasant to rich and powerful. It didn't happen just because he became the Dark One.

[KingOfHearts]

2 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

Really, if they're being consistent, none of them should have been sparkly or otherwise physically altered once they'd been brought back to Storybrooke by the curse. The curse transforms everyone into a "human" form that fits into our world. Rumple looks totally normal and just wears a suit when he's in Storybrooke. So even if Emma went sparkly while in the fairy tale world, she should have looked like her normal self once she'd been brought back to Storybrooke by the curse. And there was no reason, other than perhaps personal preference, for Hook to have changed his appearance -- the part in his hair, the less shiny jacket, the darker jewelry.

I would guess Emma changed her appearance to show she was a villain and that everyone should stay away from her. She was able to look like her first-date-self at her lunch with Hook. Seeing as she arrived with the curse separately from everyone at Granny's, she probably had time to pull a shapeshift. I don't have any excuses for Hook in Camelot, though.

Edited July 16, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

I feel like they never really explored what Nimue actually did as The Dark One.  I was listening to the song from "The Little Mermaid" that Ursula sang about how she used magic on behalf of the miserable, the lonely and depressed.  Of course, she didn't mean it, but I think this would be an interesting concept to explore, someone who used dark magic to try to fight for the disenfranchised.  

As Nimue too was initially going to use it to root out people like Vortigan who murdered a village.  So what did she do next after she left Merlin?  Did killing Vortigan stain her soul so she began to do evil indiscriminately or what?  This show seemed to show no difference between Emma doing good deeds as Dark Emma vs. Dark Ones actually doing evil.  Either way, she was punished.  

I mean, why weren't Emma and Snow concerned that Regina killing The Evil Queen would result in a dark spot in her heart?  

I also don't get how Zeus was able to reverse Hook's death.  Isn't that against the rules of magic?  But the Gods are immune to that rule or what?

Edited July 17, 2016 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

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I also don't get how Zeus was able to reverse Hook's death.  Isn't that against the rules of magic?  But the Gods are immune to that rule or what?

Perhaps, being a god, he doesn't use magic. He has his own god powers. Or, it could be that Zeus purposely prevents people from resurrecting the dead to keep up the natural order of things and he made an exception for Hook. But more than likely, the laws of magic are more like guidelines. They've been broken repeatedly. OUATIW utterly shattered them. (Which was a major plot point.) Some Dark One or wizard probably made them up.

Time Travel: Regina took an apple out of existence. Zelena's portal.
Making Someone Love You: Jafar to Anastasia and the Sultan.
Resurrecting the Dead: Frankenstein's brother and Daniel in 2A. Nimue/Dark Ones in 5A. Charming in 3B. Maleficent in 4B. Hook in 5B. 
 

Edited July 17, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Rumsy4]

43 minutes ago, Camera One said:

I mean, why weren't Emma and Snow concerned that Regina killing The Evil Queen would result in a dark spot in her heart?  

Right?! Great way to get a clean slate--commit a murder. These people all deserve Darwin Awards.

23 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Resurrecting the Dead: Daniel and Frankenstein's brother in 2A. Nimue/Dark Ones in 5A. Charming and Rumple in 3B. Hook in 5B. 

Daniel and Frankenstein's brother came back as Zombies. So, I'm not sure they really count. I also would add Shady Blue to the back-from-dead count. 

[KAOS Agent]

August died too and was resurrected as a child. Then again, the idea that magic can make a real live human out of a wooden puppet seems a bit much in terms of magic's ability to mess with life and death.

[KingOfHearts]

I had assumed Rumple didn't actually die in S3, but in S5 it was revealed he had gone to the Underworld. So we can add him to the list. Now that I think about it, the show never took advantage of that fact outside of creating portals. No one in the Underworld remembered him being there before. It was like he was visiting for the first time. At least  he hyped it up before they went?

Edited July 18, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Mari]

Maybe being a Dark One is the Mysthaven version of talking in the theater or being a child molester?  You go to a special hell, and Hades decides what to do with you?  If he likes you, puppies and rainbows?  If he doesn't, it's, well, anti-puppies and rainbows?  If that's the case, they might not have seen him.

Edited July 18, 2016 by Mari

[Camera One]

The Dark Ones all hung out together at the White Rabbit... invitation-only, very formal, Black Robe attire.  

Or maybe they were all forced to live in the Fairies' mansion which was filled with love, hope and rainbows, which made it horrific for the Dark Ones, and weakened them.

[Camera One]

I was rewatching the last scene from "The Thing You Love Most", when Regina accused Gold of "wanting all this to happen and finding Henry wasn't an accident".  But how did Rumple ensure that his amnesiac Mr. Gold self would get baby Henry to come to Storybrooke and have Regina adopt him?  "Fate" would just take care of everything and find a way to ensure Emma would come to Storybrooke on her 28th birthday?

[KingOfHearts]

8 hours ago, Camera One said:

I was rewatching the last scene from "The Thing You Love Most", when Regina accused Gold of "wanting all this to happen and finding Henry wasn't an accident".  But how did Rumple ensure that his amnesiac Mr. Gold self would get baby Henry to come to Storybrooke and have Regina adopt him?  "Fate" would just take care of everything and find a way to ensure Emma would come to Storybrooke on her 28th birthday?

Maybe the curse directed Mr. Gold to Henry?

[KingOfHearts]

Has anyone on the show ever had a middle name? Any character at all?

Edit: I think Henry is the only one. Henry Daniel Mills. Are there any others?

Edited July 27, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Curio]

17 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

Has anyone on the show ever had a middle name? Any character at all?

Edit: I think Henry is the only one. Henry Daniel Mills. Are there any others?

Does Prince Charming even have a last name?? Was his last name Nolan in the Enchanted Forest? I'd also like to discover some middle names as well.

I can't take credit for this question since I stumbled across it on Tumblr, but I read something interesting: In Season 4, everyone just assumed Snow was the new mayor because she's the one who enacted the new Dark Curse. (Even though Storybrooke is supposed to be a democracy?) So, does that mean Hook is technically the new mayor of Storybrooke since he enacted the Dark Curse in Camelot? Or is Regina going to usurp his power off screen and burn his painting, too?

Edited July 27, 2016 by Curio

[KingOfHearts]

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So, does that mean Hook is technically the new mayor of Storybrooke since he enacted the Dark Curse in Camelot? Or is Regina going to usurp his power off screen and burn his painting, too?

But here's what's confusing - Storybrooke is still materialized via Curse 2. Curse 3 brought the Camelot crew + Merida, the Nevengers 2.0, Emma's house, Excalibur and Granny's Diner, while also changing how the town border works. So there are currently two active "curses" going on at once. It's very overcomplicated for what needed to be accomplished. Was there really no other transportation spell? What was the point of bringing Arthur, Merida, etc. to Storybrooke?

[YaddaYadda]

Yeah, how are they going to break those curses? I still don't understand how anyone crossed the town line without turning into a tree. Regina and Emma? Fine, they have magic. But Henry and Violet? They should be chilling right next to Dopey. Rumple gave Belle something in 5x11 so that she could get out of Storybrooke safely.

[Camera One]

But Henry and Violet? They should be chilling right next to Dopey.

The Author is immune and he gets a +1?

What was the point of bringing Arthur, Merida, etc. to Storybrooke?

Arthur to trick everyone into believing he's a hero so he could murder his servant and... hmm...

Merida so she could make Rumple into a "hero" again and then, well... 

[KingOfHearts]

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But Henry and Violet?

Couldn't Henry just write them to New York?

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Arthur to trick everyone into believing he's a hero so he could murder his servant and... hmm...

and get killed by Hades, I guess. But there's no chance A&E had that planned in 5A.

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Merida so she could make Rumple into a "hero" again and then, well... 

Well, we needed Dark Swan to say, "I need you to make him... brave", so.

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Yeah, how are they going to break those curses?

I'm pretty fed up with all the curses. I wouldn't even call them "curses". They're more like magical mass transplants.

Edited July 27, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Curio]

1 hour ago, YaddaYadda said:

Yeah, how are they going to break those curses? I still don't understand how anyone crossed the town line without turning into a tree. Regina and Emma? Fine, they have magic. But Henry and Violet? They should be chilling right next to Dopey. Rumple gave Belle something in 5x11 so that she could get out of Storybrooke safely.

Maybe killing Nimue meant that the tree part of the curse got destroyed?

[Rumsy4]

1 minute ago, Curio said:

Maybe killing Nimue meant that the tree part of the curse got destroyed?

Apparently Adam said on Twitter that Dopey is still a Tree. So...

[YaddaYadda]

1 minute ago, Curio said:

Maybe killing Nimue meant that the tree part of the curse got destroyed?

Except that the writers at the end of the season said that dopey was still a tree and that the curse had not been broken. Adam doubled-down when the actor announced he was leaving.

[Curio]

3 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

Apparently Adam said on Twitter that Dopey is still a Tree. So...

I meant that no one else can turn into trees, but whoever turned into a tree before Nimue died is shit out of luck.

3 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

the curse had not been broken.

Oh, well then I have no freaking clue.

[YaddaYadda]

It won't matter anyway because this is how they roll. It's not like the original curse has been completely broken.

[Camera One]

So from now on, if they just believe beside a wishing fountain, they could create a portal out of nothing?

Too bad they didn't know that in 2A, eh?

Edited July 28, 2016 by Camera One

[Camera One]

An entire realm of people from The Land of Untold Stories is now in town, with Hyde insinuating that they would be a problem for the "heroes".

Will they set up housing for them, or will they be living in tents like the Camelot folks?  Did they magick in some washrooms and facilities?  Does the Curse create more food for the added people?  These same problems should have occurred with the Camelot population, except now there's presumably even more. 

The Fairies or Maleficent should make them all fall asleep so they can do a proper census.  

[Faemonic]

On 7/14/2016 at 11:26 AM, orza said:

Regina didn't kill Marion. 

This one time I've got to agree with Orza. Even without time travel, I only heard 1.) Emma's worry that Marian was condemned to death and 2.) Hook's worry that leaving Marian alive would mess with the order of the universe unpredictably.

 

Character worry doesn't make something true, and I'm not taking the creators/writers' tweets or convention statements under consideration either, I'm just taking what was shown in that half-season.

 

Unless I missed something not watching the episode with Robin and Zarian in New York, Marian's arrest could have been a close scape. Like, occupational hazard of being an outlaw's wife. They could laugh over this one time a random sorcerer queen put Marian in prison with only utensils wrapped in wire for company.

 

Because I really can't believe there was a timeline where Regina executed Marian. I can't believe Robin wouldn't  have figured that out in less than 30 years considering what a big name Snow White was, or not dropped something just a tad more specific than "my wife died and I'm sad", or just not been so chill in general (as though she died by accident or illness, not unjust death penalty.)

 

If anything, Emma's rescue of Marian sealed an association that would have maybe otherwise been laughed off and forgotten. (Because it certainly didn't become a calling in bandit solidarity! What sort of lousy anarchists are the Merry Men?) Due to Emma's rescue, Marian was last seen under arrest by Queen Regina...before (rumor mill could go) maybe escaping but definitely vanishing mysteriously.

 

It would have been interesting to watch Robin's conflict with those rumors, yes, moreso if Regina Executed Marian were a fact...but, as that's not really set up, no surprise there was never any follow through.

 

Anyway, he's dead now too.

Edited July 31, 2016 by Faemonic
removed personal opinion

[Rumsy4]

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Because I really can't believe there was a timeline where Regina executed Marian. I can't believe Robin wouldn't  have figured that out in less than 30 years considering what a big name Snow White was, or not dropped something just a tad more specific than "my wife died and I'm sad", or just not been so chill in general (as though she died by accident or illness, not unjust death penalty.)

Robin is not exactly bright. He also thought it Marian's death was his fault. But as we never got the backstory for it, it will remain yet another mystery forever. Aside from the shock value for the audience of "Oh noes! it's wasn't Robin's fault--it was Regina's" I bet A&E did not have anything else in mind.

But leaving that aside, in the episode, Marian said that she did not reveal her identity when she was captured because she was trying to protect her family. That is the key to the whole thing. As far as Regina knew or cared, she was just some random peasant who refused to betray Snow White's whereabouts, and whom she was going to make an example of. It's extremely unlikely that Regina would have let Marian go, and Marian had no hidden utensils to conveniently assist in her escape. So, from the information that's been presented to us, I think it is safe to infer that is how Marian died in the original timeline. Otherwise, the writing would have made it clear in an arc that was about Regina's pity party, and Regina would have felt even more justified in eviscerating Emma over bringing Marian back to the future with her. 

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It would have been interesting to watch Robin's conflict with those rumors, yes, moreso if Regina Executed Marian were a fact...but, as that's not really set up, no surprise there was never any follow through.

Robin as a character was never allowed to call out Regina about her crimes or feel in any way conflicted about her past. He didn't even see her during the Shattered Sight Curse. The one time he actually got mad at her, he got freaking obliterated (or not, according to Eddy). Robin was a failed opportunity from beginning to end. 

[KingOfHearts]

Did Philip die? Did someone kill him when he was a flying monkey? If he did die, why did Aurora seem fine in 4x07? I know the baby was named after him. Maybe he's just living in Offscreenville. 

(I'm pretty sure the real reason for his disappearance was actor scheduling. But I can't stand characters disappearing for no reason.)

[orza]

Phillip didn't die. Julian Morris is a regular on another show, so unavailable.

[Shanna Marie]

Maybe Philip, unlike everyone else in town other than maybe Granny, has a regular job that he actually shows up for, so while Aurora was at Mommy and Me time with the newborn, he was off working.

However, that doesn't explain the weirdness about that kid's age. Aurora was pregnant before Snow was, then was turned into a monkey and turned back after Snow gave birth. There were some lines about how it was a good thing she was turned back before she gave birth to a flying monkey, but if the pregnancy had continued at a normal rate while she was a monkey, wouldn't the baby have already been born? But if the pregnancy was frozen while she was a monkey and only resumed after she was restored, then it wouldn't have been born just a week or so after Snowflake and already be at an age to be out at Mommy and Me time.

Since Aurora didn't seem to be adjusting too well to life in Storybrooke, I wonder if she and Philip headed out with the Camelot folks and the Merry Men when they had a chance.

[KingOfHearts]

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Phillip didn't die. Julian Morris is a regular on another show, so unavailable.

Even if he's unavailable, the writers could say he died as a way of writing him off the show. 

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Since Aurora didn't seem to be adjusting too well to life in Storybrooke, I wonder if she and Philip headed out with the Camelot folks and the Merry Men when they had a chance.

I can see the writers doing that. They weren't in the group, but they could just say they were.

[orza]

17 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Even if he's unavailable, the writers could say he died as a way of writing him off the show. 

Perhaps he will be available when his role on his current show ends and he could come back so they are keeping the door open. Adding a line of dialog to explain the absence of a very minor barely recurring character is not necessary. Giving screen time, even just for a line of dialog, to one character always comes at the expense of another character's screen time. There's a lot of complaining that favorite characters do not get enough screen time. Why would you want to reduce that further to make time for characters who are unimportant, or some might say "pointless", to the show?