S11.E03: Plus One

[Bastet]

5 minutes ago, festivus said:

Looking at it in a real life way and from seeing it happen to people I know, I didn't have a problem with M/S not living together anymore.

Nor did I.  I'd actually find it quite odd if they were just merrily cohabitating all these years, especially when Mulder was self-isolating and deeply depressed.  I find it incredibly refreshing on general principle, and organic to these characters, to show that two people who love each other exclusively and eternally cannot always live with each other.  They can still be sleeping together, and that doesn't reduce them to fuck buddies.

My objection has always been to CC playing coy, acting like them having sex is a Huge Deal when it's incredibly old news, writing shitty dialogue, and saying stupid things that showcase his refusal to accept reality, not to what the status of their relationship was (as the show originally ended, in ITWB, or last season).

[EUROTRASH]

21 minutes ago, festivus said:

I'm not a shipper in the traditional sense as in I'm not so much interested in a romantic or sexual relationship as I am in the emotional connection between them. So in that sense, the episode delivered for me. I did have some problems with it which I may try to articulate later after I give it a re-watch. 

Not to me it wasn't. Looking at it in a real life way and from seeing it happen to people I know, I didn't have a problem with M/S not living together anymore. I know I've talked about it here on these boards, and I know I have an unpopular opinion about it.

I've aged at close to the same age as Mulder and Scully and the way I've shipped them has changed over that time.

You said it pretty clear though: you're interested in just an emotional connection rather than a romantic or sexual relationship.

I'm not a shipper either. Not in the sense that I require them to be in a romantic relationship. But I also don't mind it, so I'm not a "noromo". I totally admit that it's realistic and to be expected that they'd be together based on everything that happened so far. I'd argue that the break-up was odd, out of character, and a terrible decision by CC.

 

8 minutes ago, Bastet said:

Nor did I.  I'd actually find it quite odd if they were just merrily cohabitating all these years, especially when Mulder was self-isolating and deeply depressed.  I find it incredibly refreshing on general principle, and organic to these characters, to show that two people who love each other exclusively and eternally cannot always live with each other.  They can still be sleeping together, and that doesn't reduce them to fuck buddies.

My objection has always been to CC playing coy, acting like them having sex is a Huge Deal when it's incredibly old news, writing shitty dialogue, and saying stupid things that showcase his refusal to accept reality, not to what the status of their relationship was (as the show originally ended, in ITWB, or last season).

Disagree on the first paragraph, and agree on the second one, with the exception of the "shitty dialogue" part. I honestly never had a problem with his dialogue in the original series. Even the monologues in Redux and other episodes, I was never bothered by them. I just strongly dislike his work on the revival. Even with S8 and S9, despite some flaws, I see no gigantic issues.

Edited January 19, 2018 by EUROTRASH

[festivus]

24 minutes ago, Bastet said:

Nor did I.  I'd actually find it quite odd if they were just merrily cohabitating all these years, especially when Mulder was self-isolating and deeply depressed.  I find it incredibly refreshing on general principle, and organic to these characters, to show that two people who love each other exclusively and eternally cannot always live with each other.  They can still be sleeping together, and that doesn't reduce them to fuck buddies.

They presented Mulder as depressed in season 10 and I certainly understood how that could happen and I could see why they weren't living together anymore. I'm interested in the story they are telling with the M/S relationship and I agree with your whole post and definitely with the last sentence.

 

I'm just posting my POV because not all shippers are the same or want the same things from the story.

[AntiBeeSpray]

1 hour ago, ratSenoL said:

I enjoyed the episode for the most part, though I thought the pacing was a bit off. I was pleased with myself for picking up that Chuck and Judy were played by the same actress.  It generally felt like a love letter to the shippers.  I am not a shipper, but I can agree that the inconsistencies in MS over the years has been frustrating and somewhat distracting from the show.  Bottom line: after everything Mulder and Scully have been through--not to mention having a kid together--their relationship should evolve.  It would be helpful to the viewer to have that evolution reflected as the seasons go by, though I'm fine with the show Not dwelling on it.

As to this episode in particular, I think it might help to pretend that it aired prior to the last one ("This"?).  Someone way up thread mentioned that it may indeed have been aired out of order.  Then, it makes more sense.  In "Plus One," MS have another one of their deep conversations and "ATTHS," that sort of brings them back together after their breakup last season. Then, the following episode ("This"), they're just an old married couple drooling on the couch side by side having fallen asleep to late night TV.  Then all the relationship stuff makes sense and stops distracting from the storyline.  (Though, that doesn't explain how they're in the office in "Plus One" and kicked out of the office in "This." Oh well. I'm sticking to it!)

We'll have to see how that holds up as the season progresses. Or maybe this is all just a daydream of Scully's while she's watching Mulder die of the virus at the end of last season. 

Agreed. Exactly, it's where I stand as well.

[AntiBeeSpray]

2 hours ago, festivus said:

I'm not a shipper in the traditional sense as in I'm not so much interested in a romantic or sexual relationship as I am in the emotional connection between them. So in that sense, the episode delivered for me. I did have some problems with it which I may try to articulate later after I give it a re-watch. 

Not to me it wasn't. Looking at it in a real life way and from seeing it happen to people I know, I didn't have a problem with M/S not living together anymore. I know I've talked about it here on these boards, and I know I have an unpopular opinion about it.

I've aged at close to the same age as Mulder and Scully and the way I've shipped them has changed over that time.

Fair enough. Wish I could view it in the same way, but CC's hackneyed dialogue just made it almost impossible.

I'm fine with it as well, if done well and this... wasn't dialogue wise.

 

1 hour ago, Bastet said:

Nor did I.  I'd actually find it quite odd if they were just merrily cohabitating all these years, especially when Mulder was self-isolating and deeply depressed.  I find it incredibly refreshing on general principle, and organic to these characters, to show that two people who love each other exclusively and eternally cannot always live with each other.  They can still be sleeping together, and that doesn't reduce them to fuck buddies.

My objection has always been to CC playing coy, acting like them having sex is a Huge Deal when it's incredibly old news, writing shitty dialogue, and saying stupid things that showcase his refusal to accept reality, not to what the status of their relationship was (as the show originally ended, in ITWB, or last season).

Maybe it would have worked better if the order was reversed. It might be why some people view them as such. 

Agreed on that.

Edited January 20, 2018 by AntiBeeSpray

[EUROTRASH]

1 hour ago, festivus said:

They presented Mulder as depressed in season 10 and I certainly understood how that could happen and I could see why they weren't living together anymore. I'm interested in the story they are telling with the M/S relationship and I agree with your whole post and definitely with the last sentence.

 

I'm just posting my POV because not all shippers are the same or want the same things from the story.

Your POV is valid, but many shippers would disagree. I mean, Mulder was dead for three months, and Scully never moved on. Mulder was also gone for a whole year, and Scully never moved on. S10 is trying to convince the audience that Mulder's depression led to their estrangement. Really? This duo, who, after being to hell and back, with abductions, family deaths, cancer, and whatnot else, always remained together.

I don't think it holds up to scrutiny, especially considering the fact that the break-up itself literally contributed nothing to the individual S10 episodes. You even have episodes like Babylon where there's no indication that they're apart. None whatsoever. So why do it at all? It seemed that CC just wanted to return to a comfort-zone, sort of: Mulder and Scully are platonic, the mythology is unclear/ambiguous, et cetera.

[festivus]

33 minutes ago, EUROTRASH said:

Your POV is valid, but many shippers would disagree.

Yes I know. I already stated that I know I have an UO. I don't see things the same way as many others but I want my thoughts out there too.

[festivus]

41 minutes ago, AntiBeeSpray said:

Fair enough. Wish I could view it in the same way, but CC's hackneyed dialogue just made it almost impossible.

I had some trouble with the dialogue also, but I want to watch again before I discuss it. I was ill when watching the first time and I couldn't quite get my thoughts together so I will need another viewing.

[AntiBeeSpray]

1 minute ago, festivus said:

I had some trouble with the dialogue also, but I want to watch again before I discuss it. I was ill when watching the first time and I couldn't quite get my thoughts together so I will need another viewing.

Ah I see. I'd do the same, but it'll take some time before I can do so. I'm at a loss right now.

[Batgirl]

Regarding CC’s quote that they’re “not romantic”[ally involved] now— I wonder if he wants to write them not being together so he can have them “officially” reconcile later in the season? I don’t have much hope he’d do that, but it’s a possibility.

 

I wish he would have just let them be the way they were in most of season 10 and in “This.” That was good enough for this shipper. It’s ironic how he draws more attention to their relationship by trying to deny it exists. It actually distracts from the rest of the show, in my opinion. 

[AntiBeeSpray]

9 minutes ago, Batgirl said:

Regarding CC’s quote that they’re “not romantic”[ally involved] now— I wonder if he wants to write them not being together so he can have them “officially” reconcile later in the season? I don’t have much hope he’d do that, but it’s a possibility.

 

I wish he would have just let them be the way they were in most of season 10 and in “This.” That was good enough for this shipper. It’s ironic how he draws more attention to their relationship by trying to deny it exists. It actually distracts from the rest of the show, in my opinion. 

It could be. But frankly, it's too little, too late.

Word. Ironically enough. I liked them in parts (minus his eps) of that season and in 'This'. Exactly.  It's a bit funny at times lol.

[ganesh]

CC needs to just shut up and let the show be the show. I'm so sick and tired of TPTBs on shows with their burning need to tell the audience what they should think about their show. Dude, you're a huckster. Back when we didn't know what was going on and the show was fresh, we bought in. We're older now. We've lived life. So have Mulder and Scully. DD and GA knew this for a while. I've never been a shipper but ffs sake any idiot could see how the actors played M&S. You're tiring. I'm tired of being tired of you. You're stuck in 1997. You should have just be EP on the reboot and handed it off to a showrunner who knows something about cultural context. 

[AntiBeeSpray]

48 minutes ago, ganesh said:

CC needs to just shut up and let the show be the show. I'm so sick and tired of TPTBs on shows with their burning need to tell the audience what they should think about their show. Dude, you're a huckster. Back when we didn't know what was going on and the show was fresh, we bought in. We're older now. We've lived life. So have Mulder and Scully. DD and GA knew this for a while. I've never been a shipper but ffs sake any idiot could see how the actors played M&S. You're tiring. I'm tired of being tired of you. You're stuck in 1997. You should have just be EP on the reboot and handed it off to a showrunner who knows something about cultural context. 

I wish. Agreed. Word. I am too. Wish he would have. But it is his show, so it is what it is.

[Italian Ice]

The more I think about this episode, the more I keep coming back to Judy ribbing Scully about her age, and "being in her 40's", when Scully is actually 53. Methinks it's a wee bit of revisionist history to maybe make a Scully pregnancy seem a little more legit? I swear, all signs keep pointing to the show going in that direction, but we shall see. 

[Begolden]

I agree that the conversation in bed rang false based not only on the events of "This," but on the canon of the past 20 years.  However, after repeated rewatchings, I find that I'm most bothered by the wardrobe choices made in the post-coital bedroom scene.  Why was Mulder fully clothed (in his sleepwear) but Scully isnt?  These are the questions that keep me up at night...

[EUROTRASH]

7 hours ago, Italian Ice said:

The more I think about this episode, the more I keep coming back to Judy ribbing Scully about her age, and "being in her 40's", when Scully is actually 53. Methinks it's a wee bit of revisionist history to maybe make a Scully pregnancy seem a little more legit? I swear, all signs keep pointing to the show going in that direction, but we shall see. 

I agree with you. It's hard to understand because the writing is sloppy. Yes it appears as if he's trying to make her younger, in her 40s, but then he writes her and Mulder talking about retirement. And then the whole reset, as if they've never lived together, it's just so unclear and incoherent. Not to mention the fact that she shouldn't be worried about leaving the FBI at all. She left the FBI in the past, and pursued medicine. Actually, she was sick and tired of the FBI and the X-Files way back in season eight.

[AntiBeeSpray]

5 hours ago, Begolden said:

I agree that the conversation in bed rang false based not only on the events of "This," but on the canon of the past 20 years.  However, after repeated rewatchings, I find that I'm most bothered by the wardrobe choices made in the post-coital bedroom scene.  Why was Mulder fully clothed (in his sleepwear) but Scully isnt?  These are the questions that keep me up at night...

Maybe only one person could be naked at a time? That's my best guess. 

 

10 hours ago, Italian Ice said:

The more I think about this episode, the more I keep coming back to Judy ribbing Scully about her age, and "being in her 40's", when Scully is actually 53. Methinks it's a wee bit of revisionist history to maybe make a Scully pregnancy seem a little more legit? I swear, all signs keep pointing to the show going in that direction, but we shall see. 

Yea I noticed that. Really Chris? Yep. This is sooo odd, but yet it makes me think that maybe CC regrets her giving up her and Mulder's kid.

Edited January 20, 2018 by AntiBeeSpray

[ganesh]

17 hours ago, AntiBeeSpray said:

But it is his show, so it is what it is.

Not exactly though. Once you put it out there for public consumption you cede some ownership of it. And that's not me, I think one of the creators of SG-1 said that. Not that you don't make the show based on fandom; you do what you think is the right show. But at the same time, you look at the reasonable analysis here, it's clear CC doesn't not know M&S. 

If you don't realize that, then you have a situation where GA is done with the show. 

[eleanorofaquitaine]

I rewatched the episode today. And again, I came away believing that Carter was commenting on the ownership that the audience feels over Mulder and Scully (and, by extension, the entire show) as much as he was anything else.  IMO, Chuck and Judy were substitutes for the audience, obsessing over these two characters and their attractiveness, etc.  And I suspect he pretty much anticipated that he would get a reaction from the audience because, IMO, that was kind of the point of the episode.  The more he pisses people off, the more I kind of respect him for it - they are his characters, he created them, and he has a vision for them, even if the audience seems to hate him for it.

[AntiBeeSpray]

3 hours ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

I rewatched the episode today. And again, I came away believing that Carter was commenting on the ownership that the audience feels over Mulder and Scully (and, by extension, the entire show) as much as he was anything else.  IMO, Chuck and Judy were substitutes for the audience, obsessing over these two characters and their attractiveness, etc.  And I suspect he pretty much anticipated that he would get a reaction from the audience because, IMO, that was kind of the point of the episode.  The more he pisses people off, the more I kind of respect him for it - they are his characters, he created them, and he has a vision for them, even if the audience seems to hate him for it.

I didn't see in that way at all. Really. Just two random characters and a case. Nothing more.

And I can't see how anyone could respect that kind of behavior. It was the kind of thing that almost drove me away from the show last season. That kind of rude and condescending behavior he showed at times then,  is more than enough to detract people from it.

I can understand him being annoyed by people being that way, but it works both ways.

Edited January 21, 2018 by AntiBeeSpray

[ganesh]

I just don't buy that in general for tv shows. They're my characters and I can do what I want clearly is a faulty approach because here we are. 

It's not my theory anyway. A tv creator was talking about it. 

[EUROTRASH]

While the success of the series is down to a confluence of elements but none more important than the chemistry between Duchovny and Anderson, and Mulder and Scully. Even after 25 years, Anderson says, "It's good ... it's interesting, it feels like ... it's fun," she says.

"We go back and it's fun and easy, it's a really easy camaraderie," she says. "On the one hand it feels closer than ever, because there's something ... I don't actually know how to describe it, [the relationship between the characters] is not as intimate as it used to be, it's a real companionship."

http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/tv-and-radio/times-up-gillian-anderson-on-why-shes-closing-the-xfiles-after-25-years-20180114-h0iapf.html

[MadZither]

So, hi! I’m a forever/24yr fan of this show but don’t think I’ve ever posted here on this forum. Either way, I (we, actually - my husband and I) really enjoyed this episode. A lot. Yea, there are and always will be the CC ultra-weird issues - god, he must be used to regularly and religiously turning himself inside-out and upside-down just to be/seem to be extra clever. But, you see, even though X-files is my original love, I’ve since lived through BBC’s Sherlock and no other writer(s) could fuck up their own show as much as Gatiss and Moffat did in S4 of that show. Deep sixed it totally all the way, no matter if there’s a hidden or parallel storyline. Sometimes you just can’t redeem yourself. Which is why and what brings me here: CC and whoever else he has writing with him borrowed so much from ACD/Sherlock this ep, from the, ‘Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth’ as well as the no “shit” Sherlock quip to the end scene when M is like, I’m here if you need me and S is like why would I need you. John Watson said essentially the same to Sherlock in S2. Except. EXCEPT. Here, Scully finds it within herself to feel her way towards why she would want to seek out Mulder. And then she does. Shit! Glorious. Did not happen in Sherlock. Why? Because it was two men. It’s almost as if, for this ep, CC was trying to NOT do what Moftiss did with Sherlock. Like, ok, we ALL know that M&S love each other and try as he might, CC can’t help himself from writing them as a couple. But in this ep, it seems like he’s saying, ‘My characters can actually DO what we’ve written them to do’ versus Sherlock, where the writers crapped out because they were afraid of same-sex backlash. Well, this is just what I’m thinking rn. I will always LOVE S&M and S&J together, fighting whatever/whomever. Shit, idc, I just love the fact that I can still watch this show. Thanks for  getting through my rant! Peace. 

[eleanorofaquitaine]

On 1/21/2018 at 1:59 AM, AntiBeeSpray said:

I didn't see in that way at all. Really. Just two random characters and a case. Nothing more.

And I can't see how anyone could respect that kind of behavior. It was the kind of thing that almost drove me away from the show last season. That kind of rude and condescending behavior he showed at times then,  is more than enough to detract people from it.

I can understand him being annoyed by people being that way, but it works both ways.

Because I can respect that he's saying that this is his vision and he's going to write his vision, and not be obsessed with fan service.  I actually do respect that because I think that there are a number of shows where the producers and writers go too interested in giving the fans what they want rather than expressing their vision as the creator.

[ganesh]

I think the criticism is that he's never really had a vision. 

[Batgirl]

I think a lot of the criticism stems from the wishy-washiness. Things need to make sense (I mean relationships, not the cases :-). If M & S are living together in one episode, it makes no sense for them to be apart in the next. If they haven’t reconciled since splitting, why does the writing seem to reflect otherwise, expect when it explicitly says they are apart? Times a million other examples over the years. 

[AntiBeeSpray]

I just realized something from this ep: https://stupideffinbee.tumblr.com/post/170023633792/notwidelyunderstooddefinition-all-things-7x17

Source: their Tumblr page

Big thanks to notwidelyunderstooddefinition for posting this gifset via Tumblr.

Scully left unsure in All Things. Mulder didn’t. It’s the mirror to it.

Scully was a bit unsure here... but Mulder stayed to comfort her. And then she was confident. And went for the second round  >:).

These are two adults who know what they want in the end.

CC be damned.

Now the non physicality makes some sense.

‘All Things’ was VERY implied in that regard. Didn’t have any real physicality either.

[Italian Ice]

Kinda sorta about this episode, but this article was a great read. It talked about Mulder & Scully's relationship in the age of #MeToo and workplace sexual misconduct. It specifically references "Plus One."

 

http://www.indiewire.com/2018/01/workplace-romance-sexual-harassment-x-files-greys-anatomy-1201920701/

Edited January 23, 2018 by Italian Ice

[millennium]

okay, so after all this time, after all the shared life-or-death experiences, Mulder and Scully are fuckbuddies.   nice.

This was the first episode of either revival to feel like a classic X-Files, possibly because to me it seems like a retread of at least two classic episodes, Szygy and The Ghosts Who Stole Christmas.   Mulder and Scully flail about trying to uncover the truth while two psychic/supernatural personalities wage their own War of the Roses.   A little suspense, a little humor, never any serious threat to our heroes.

I had to chuckle at the newspaper headline that proclaimed So and So Says Deaths are "Supernatural" because the cold open felt a lot like an episode of Supernatural.  A tip of the hat, perhaps?

Is it just me or is the wig riding too high on Gillian's forehead?   It looks a bit odd. 

[MissL]

4 hours ago, millennium said:

okay, so after all this time, after all the shared life-or-death experiences, Mulder and Scully are fuckbuddies.   nice.

 

Is it just me or is the wig riding too high on Gillian's forehead?   It looks a bit odd. 

Yeah. Sigh. I want to enjoy the "look" he gives her at the end of the episode and I'm trying really hard to ignore that whisper in the back of my head that says the relationship should be way more than that now. Too be clear I'm not looking side eyed at the sex or having some fun with the sex  I'm looking side eyed at the making the sex out to be friends with benefits only. 

Yes! I miss Scullys real hair! The wig takes me out of scenes sometimes. Although judging by the way Gillian's hair has looked lately (walk of fame for example) maybe they really have damaged it almost beyond repair and girl needs a break.

[AntiBeeSpray]

6 hours ago, MissL said:

Yeah. Sigh. I want to enjoy the "look" he gives her at the end of the episode and I'm trying really hard to ignore that whisper in the back of my head that says the relationship should be way more than that now. Too be clear I'm not looking side eyed at the sex or having some fun with the sex  I'm looking side eyed at the making the sex out to be friends with benefits only. 

Yes! I miss Scullys real hair! The wig takes me out of scenes sometimes. Although judging by the way Gillian's hair has looked lately (walk of fame for example) maybe they really have damaged it almost beyond repair and girl needs a break.

That's me too. That episode leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

[Sharna Pax]

22 minutes ago, AntiBeeSpray said:

That's me too. That episode leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Yeah. I wish it didn't, because I do think it's a Giant Leap for Mankind that Chris Carter is finally able to admit that Scully has sex, after all those years of portraying her as a virgin saint. And I'm a sucker for scenes where Mulder and Scully lie in bed together and talk. The actors are great, the visuals are lovely, the afterglow comment was a delightful surprise - but the more I think about what's actually going on, the more I don't like it.

First of all, Mulder and Scully just don't work as friends with benefits. Mulder and Scully have been best friends for 25 years, they spend every work day and a lot of their free time together, they don't seem to have anyone else in their lives, they automatically go to each other for emotional support, and they have sex. That's a relationship. It may be an unconventional relationship, it may not be constant or exclusive, but it's not friends with benefits. In my experience, when people spend all their time together, act like a couple, but insist they're not a couple, somebody is on track to get hurt.

Second, I really don't like the pattern Mulder and Scully seem to be in, where she says they won't be having sex, he waits patiently because he knows better, and then she gives in to temptation. That's a deeply unhealthy way to conduct a relationship, and it's giving me Moonlighting flashbacks.

Finally, Scully comes across as neurotic and self-centered in a way that I think is out of character. Overall, the impression I get of Mulder and Scully in this episode is of a couple who broke up so recently that they haven't yet been able to drop all their old habits. So you have Scully getting upset and going to Mulder for support, as she has many times over the course of the show - only now what she's upset about is the fear that Mulder, whom she broke up with, might meet someone else and have a family. And you can tell, from Mulder's reaction, that he realizes how phenomenally unfair it is to ask him for reassurance on that point. I really don't like the thought that Scully, regardless of how insecure she's feeling, would crawl into her ex's bed and effectively say, "Hey, I don't want to get back together or anything, but can you hold me and promise me you'll be there for me forever and reassure me that you won't meet anyone else?"

Of course, in the next episode it seems like maybe they did get back together. And in "This" it seemed like they'd never broken up. So who knows? At this point, whenever I try to figure out Mulder and Scully's relationship, what comes to mind is that exchange from "Were-Monster:" "I'm just looking for some kind of internal logic." "Why? There isn't any external logic to any of it."

[eleanorofaquitaine]

50 minutes ago, Sharna Pax said:

Finally, Scully comes across as neurotic and self-centered in a way that I think is out of character. Overall, the impression I get of Mulder and Scully in this episode is of a couple who broke up so recently that they haven't yet been able to drop all their old habits. So you have Scully getting upset and going to Mulder for support, as she has many times over the course of the show - only now what she's upset about is the fear that Mulder, whom she broke up with, might meet someone else and have a family. And you can tell, from Mulder's reaction, that he realizes how phenomenally unfair it is to ask him for reassurance on that point. I really don't like the thought that Scully, regardless of how insecure she's feeling, would crawl into her ex's bed and effectively say, "Hey, I don't want to get back together or anything, but can you hold me and promise me you'll be there for me forever and reassure me that you won't meet anyone else?"

 

Man, I so don't think that this is out of character for Scully at all.  For one thing, as you mention, she has always gone to Mulder for support - after all, he was the only one she told about the cancer (until SHE MADE HIM TELL HER OWN MOTHER! I am sorry, I still can't believe that more people don't talk about that).  But also, I think that this is indicative of one of Scully's very real and very consistent flaws - how much she relies on Mulder to do the tough emotional work. I don't think she's self-centered, but she is someone who doesn't love confronting difficult emotions (see her need to immediately return to work when her father, sister, and mother died).  And while I can't say that Mulder loves to confront them, either, he was always a lot more willing to wear his heart on his sleeve than Scully was.  So she does rely on him to do a lot of the emotional labor she's not willing to do.  (Which hey, I kind of like for being an inversion of the usual gender dynamics).

Also, Scully's insecurity when it comes to Mulder isn't really a new thing - she most certainly felt insecure when Diana Fowley re-entered Mulder's life, she was threatened by "her name is Bambi?!" in War of the Copraphages, and we saw her turn into the most ridiculous raging jealous harpy (I mean, for Scully) in Alpha.  Mulder generally isn't interested in any other woman than Scully, so he doesn't give her a lot of opportunities to be jealous but that insecurity when Mulder may evince a romantic or sexual interest in another woman has been present before.

Anyway, none of that seemed out of character for me.  Scully is a flawed human being, and many of those flaws come out as it relates to her relationship with Mulder.

[Sharna Pax]

27 minutes ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

Man, I so don't think that this is out of character for Scully at all.  For one thing, as you mention, she has always gone to Mulder for support - after all, he was the only one she told about the cancer (until SHE MADE HIM TELL HER OWN MOTHER! I am sorry, I still can't believe that more people don't talk about that).  But also, I think that this is indicative of one of Scully's very real and very consistent flaws - how much she relies on Mulder to do the tough emotional work. I don't think she's self-centered, but she is someone who doesn't love confronting difficult emotions (see her need to immediately return to work when her father, sister, and mother died).  And while I can't say that Mulder loves to confront them, either, he was always a lot more willing to wear his heart on his sleeve than Scully was.  So she does rely on him to do a lot of the emotional labor she's not willing to do.  (Which hey, I kind of like for being an inversion of the usual gender dynamics).

I guess I see Scully as more of the stiff-upper-lip, quietly-lick-her-wounds-in-a-corner type. You know, all that Naval training. Yes, Mulder is who she goes to when she has to go to anyone - but she even took a while to tell Mulder about the cancer, and then instead of going to him and telling him in person how scared she was, she wrote letters to him that she never sent. I agree with you that Mulder ends up having to do a lot of the emotional labor because Scully is so reserved, but I think that in her mind she's just trying to be strong and keep her troubles to herself and not lay them on him. 

I think this scene is a reversal of their usual dynamic, in a couple of ways. Mulder has such a tendency to put the full weight of his problems directly on Scully's shoulders - think about Sein und Zeit/Closure, when Mulder asks Scully to do an autopsy on his mother, and she really doesn't want to but he insists. Mulder is an absolute mess in those episodes, and I completely understand why, but I've always marveled at Scully's ability to support Mulder through all of that and never show the strain. I also think there was a long period of time when Mulder wasn't ready for a relationship with Scully but did want her to be around and emotionally available to him forever. I find it perfectly believable that it's now Scully who can't deal with a relationship but also can't imagine her life without Mulder, and I can understand her getting insecure at the idea that Mulder might meet someone else. But Scully's also a rational person and an adult. She's got to know that when you're upset because you want your ex to stay single forever, your ex is not the person to talk to about that, unless you want to get back together. If this were the kind of show that has continuity, I would worry that Mulder really will meet someone and Scully will be crushed. As it is, I have absolutely no idea what Mulder and Scully's relationship status will be next week, so there's no point in worrying about it.

I guess I'm bothered by this partly because I really like the idea that Mulder and Scully's relationship has evolved over time, that they talk to each other much more easily and openly than they did all those years ago. I like the idea of reserved, stiff-upper-lip Scully being able to just go straight to Mulder and tell him what she's worried about, instead of waiting until the next time they get stranded out in the middle of nowhere with something trying to eat them. I just wish that worry weren't "What if you meet someone," which, depending on how you look at it, is either totally irrational or really thoughtless.

[AntiBeeSpray]

4 hours ago, Sharna Pax said:

Yeah. I wish it didn't, because I do think it's a Giant Leap for Mankind that Chris Carter is finally able to admit that Scully has sex, after all those years of portraying her as a virgin saint. And I'm a sucker for scenes where Mulder and Scully lie in bed together and talk. The actors are great, the visuals are lovely, the afterglow comment was a delightful surprise - but the more I think about what's actually going on, the more I don't like it.

First of all, Mulder and Scully just don't work as friends with benefits. Mulder and Scully have been best friends for 25 years, they spend every work day and a lot of their free time together, they don't seem to have anyone else in their lives, they automatically go to each other for emotional support, and they have sex. That's a relationship. It may be an unconventional relationship, it may not be constant or exclusive, but it's not friends with benefits. In my experience, when people spend all their time together, act like a couple, but insist they're not a couple, somebody is on track to get hurt.

Second, I really don't like the pattern Mulder and Scully seem to be in, where she says they won't be having sex, he waits patiently because he knows better, and then she gives in to temptation. That's a deeply unhealthy way to conduct a relationship, and it's giving me Moonlighting flashbacks.

Finally, Scully comes across as neurotic and self-centered in a way that I think is out of character. Overall, the impression I get of Mulder and Scully in this episode is of a couple who broke up so recently that they haven't yet been able to drop all their old habits. So you have Scully getting upset and going to Mulder for support, as she has many times over the course of the show - only now what she's upset about is the fear that Mulder, whom she broke up with, might meet someone else and have a family. And you can tell, from Mulder's reaction, that he realizes how phenomenally unfair it is to ask him for reassurance on that point. I really don't like the thought that Scully, regardless of how insecure she's feeling, would crawl into her ex's bed and effectively say, "Hey, I don't want to get back together or anything, but can you hold me and promise me you'll be there for me forever and reassure me that you won't meet anyone else?"

Of course, in the next episode it seems like maybe they did get back together. And in "This" it seemed like they'd never broken up. So who knows? At this point, whenever I try to figure out Mulder and Scully's relationship, what comes to mind is that exchange from "Were-Monster:" "I'm just looking for some kind of internal logic." "Why? There isn't any external logic to any of it."

Exactly! It just doesn't make any sense. 

[eleanorofaquitaine]

21 hours ago, Sharna Pax said:

I guess I see Scully as more of the stiff-upper-lip, quietly-lick-her-wounds-in-a-corner type. You know, all that Naval training. Yes, Mulder is who she goes to when she has to go to anyone - but she even took a while to tell Mulder about the cancer, and then instead of going to him and telling him in person how scared she was, she wrote letters to him that she never sent. I agree with you that Mulder ends up having to do a lot of the emotional labor because Scully is so reserved, but I think that in her mind she's just trying to be strong and keep her troubles to herself and not lay them on him. 

I think this scene is a reversal of their usual dynamic, in a couple of ways. Mulder has such a tendency to put the full weight of his problems directly on Scully's shoulders - think about Sein und Zeit/Closure, when Mulder asks Scully to do an autopsy on his mother, and she really doesn't want to but he insists. Mulder is an absolute mess in those episodes, and I completely understand why, but I've always marveled at Scully's ability to support Mulder through all of that and never show the strain. I also think there was a long period of time when Mulder wasn't ready for a relationship with Scully but did want her to be around and emotionally available to him forever. I find it perfectly believable that it's now Scully who can't deal with a relationship but also can't imagine her life without Mulder, and I can understand her getting insecure at the idea that Mulder might meet someone else. But Scully's also a rational person and an adult. She's got to know that when you're upset because you want your ex to stay single forever, your ex is not the person to talk to about that, unless you want to get back together. If this were the kind of show that has continuity, I would worry that Mulder really will meet someone and Scully will be crushed. As it is, I have absolutely no idea what Mulder and Scully's relationship status will be next week, so there's no point in worrying about it.

I guess I'm bothered by this partly because I really like the idea that Mulder and Scully's relationship has evolved over time, that they talk to each other much more easily and openly than they did all those years ago. I like the idea of reserved, stiff-upper-lip Scully being able to just go straight to Mulder and tell him what she's worried about, instead of waiting until the next time they get stranded out in the middle of nowhere with something trying to eat them. I just wish that worry weren't "What if you meet someone," which, depending on how you look at it, is either totally irrational or really thoughtless.

I responded to this in the Mulder and Scully thread, since we've moved beyond just talking about this episode. 

Edited January 31, 2018 by eleanorofaquitaine

[Taryn74]

1 hour ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

I like the idea of reserved, stiff-upper-lip Scully being able to just go straight to Mulder and tell him what she's worried about, instead of waiting until the next time they get stranded out in the middle of nowhere with something trying to eat them.

I'll follow to the other thread, I just wanted to say how much this made me laugh.  Oh, X-Files.  Never change.

[Ottis]

On 1/17/2018 at 11:16 PM, rideashire said:

No. Just no. That whole bed scene was ridiculous and I hear the folks that say it's realistic for a couple that's been together for a while to have doubts but here's the thing, the show is saying they aren't together.

They aren't together, are they? Admittedly I don't pay much attention to the relationship stuff, but didn't we learn last year in the reboot that M&S had gotten together, had a kid (sort of) and then split up? To me, them knocking boots this episode was just ex's turning to something comfortable. Nothing wrong with that, given they didn't remarry anyone else.

I also didn't realize the same actress played Chuckie and Judy. I just realized that Chuckie was a weird male and couldn't figure out why. That's why. I probably should never go to Bangkok.

[Mystery]

I'm binge watching tonight, so everyone has already said most of what I want to say. I liked this better than the first episode, not as much as the second one. The idea that episodes have been aired in a different order than they were shot is an interesting one; I noticed Gillian's hoarseness in this episode. 

This one preyed on a totally irrational fear I've always had, of seeing myself in a crowd. Yikes. 

Two things I haven't seen mentioned: I think that Mulder would know the correct use of "begs the question." And two, knowing that Mulder had seen his doppelganger, would Scully have eaten all of the bread pills without offering him one? I was expecting her to split them with him. 

[Sharna Pax]

On 2/2/2018 at 9:27 PM, Mystery said:

I'm binge watching tonight, so everyone has already said most of what I want to say. I liked this better than the first episode, not as much as the second one. The idea that episodes have been aired in a different order than they were shot is an interesting one; I noticed Gillian's hoarseness in this episode. 

This one preyed on a totally irrational fear I've always had, of seeing myself in a crowd. Yikes. 

Two things I haven't seen mentioned: I think that Mulder would know the correct use of "begs the question." And two, knowing that Mulder had seen his doppelganger, would Scully have eaten all of the bread pills without offering him one? I was expecting her to split them with him. 

I gave up on the X-Files and correct grammar and usage a long time ago, somewhere around "that without which he cannot live without." I'm constantly yelling at Mulder to quit saying "Scully and I" when he means "Scully and me," so at this point I'd be surprised if he used "begs the question" correctly. It does bug me, though. You went to Oxford, Mulder! 

[AudienceofOne]

So I know that this relationship is polarising for X-Files fans. I know that those who want them together are only matched in their certainty by those who loathe the idea.

But, at this point, for the writers to try to keep both sides happy by pretending they're "just colleagues" while blatantly Ship Baiting is ridiculous. 

[ganesh]

Is it though, by now? I didn't want them to get together, but by the end of the original show run, based on what they'd been through, it's hard for me to argue that they're just good friends. I think most of the problem is that CC doesn't really know the characters and understands how they evolved. So many years later in the show universe, at this point, it's kind of insulting to the viewers to write it that way. 

[AntiBeeSpray]

On 3/24/2018 at 8:42 PM, AudienceofOne said:

So I know that this relationship is polarising for X-Files fans. I know that those who want them together are only matched in their certainty by those who loathe the idea.

But, at this point, for the writers to try to keep both sides happy by pretending they're "just colleagues" while blatantly Ship Baiting is ridiculous. 

Exactly it's insulting and childish. And after watching the last episode, I hate this episode so much more. Really. It makes me sick. The St. Rachel hotel/motel thing is foreshadowing pregnancy and with Rachel in the bible, she died while giving birth. Really CC? What the hell? So you're saying your characters can never have a kid of their own... and that sex is bad. /facepalm  It seems as if overall it's nothing more than a middle finger to fans.

 

On 3/24/2018 at 10:28 PM, ganesh said:

Is it though, by now? I didn't want them to get together, but by the end of the original show run, based on what they'd been through, it's hard for me to argue that they're just good friends. I think most of the problem is that CC doesn't really know the characters and understands how they evolved. So many years later in the show universe, at this point, it's kind of insulting to the viewers to write it that way. 

Yep. And he thinks that people like the mystery and it's all he knows. Hell he admitted that it could only go on for so long, yet there's nothing past it for him. He's a one trick pony there and in the mytharc as far as I'm concerned.

Edited March 27, 2018 by AntiBeeSpray