S13.E09: The Bad Place

[Whimsy]

I didn’t see a thread. Which is weird. where’s @Diane?

 

Quote

Jack, desperate to prove to Sam and Dean that he is good and that he can control his powers, enlists the help of a dreamcatcher named Kaia to help him find Mary Winchester and save her from the alternate universe. However, when plans go awry, the Winchester brothers are the ones who need saving.

[catrox14]

[gonzosgirrl]

Holy crapping crap. Dinosaurs. I shit you not.

Absolute douchebag angels breaking wards by pounding on the ground.

Dean forcing the dreamwalker into the car at gunpoint.

And freaking dinosaurs.

What happened to my Supernatural?

[Katy M]

I'm excited about the possibilities.  WAs that a bigfoot print or a dinosaur print?  Either way, that opens up new realms.

A little disappointed with Dean but since Kaya came around on her own, I guess it's OK?

Just now, gonzosgirrl said:

Absolute douchebag angels breaking wards by pounding on the ground.

I was actually just impressed that angels could do something for once.  I'm sick of them being so human.  Subhuman.

[Lady Calypso]

DINOSAURS!

Best cliffhanger EVER. They just tugged at my heartstrings right there. 

[Katy M]

Just now, Lady Calypso said:

DINOSAURS!

Best cliffhanger EVER. They just tugged at my heartstrings right there. 

I know.  Something different.  I'm so excited.  As long as they don't lame it up.

[BoxManLocke]

That was pretty great. Best episode of the season for me.

They managed to sell me on the concept of dreamwalkers thanks to Kaia, who's a really cool character and will make an excellent addition to WS. Certainly gives me another good reason to hope for the spinoff's success.

Jack was perfect as usual, and needed the time away from Sam & Dean to grow as a strong and independent character. He even got to help Kaia control her powers. Shame he didn't get to finish it, I hope they get more scenes together sometimes, they had great chemistry.

The fact that Jack was Sam and Dean's case of the week really helped drive up the intensity, and even though they shared the plot with other characters, they still felt useful (might wanna take note, BuckLeming). Dean clearly beat himself up about his decision to not look for Mary, and as a result was pretty hard on Kaia but I wasn't surprised. I thought it was just a good bit of POV.

The ending was TENSE. I hate angels but I actually liked their justification for needing Jack. The last few minutes ended in a great cliffhanger and I gotta thank Berens for finally pairing Mary with a good character. He's the only one who knows how to use her right.

 

A couple of things I didn't like, though :

- Patience. She is just incredibly boring, especially compared to Kaia. There's nothing there, no passion in the writing, no reason for me to care about her, and the justification for her going the way of WS was lame.

- The first half of the ep tried to build up some kind of tension about Jack possibly being a murderer and I didn't believe it for a second.

- Dinosaurs ? That's ridiculous. No. Don't do that. Bad SPN.

Edited December 8, 2017 by BoxManLocke

[Jeddah]

Are they in a dinosaur world? I can’t. I mean, I’ll give it a chance, but come on. 

I liked Kaya. It was interesting that “The Bad Place” she kept seeing ended up being a different AU than wherever Mary is. She referenced Trump’s America. So what happened to the Lotus President?

I really like Jack. He’s adorable. He looked so sweet when Dean said he did good. And he was just trying to make the boys happy by rescuing Mary.

When Dean says he’ll do something no matter what, he means it.

From a logistics standpoint I hope Cas goes and gets Baby while the boys are away. I was worried for her when they were running from the angels and left her.

Edited December 8, 2017 by Jeddah

[BoxManLocke]

Thinking a bit more about this, I'm really perplexed about Berens' decision to put DINOSAURS in his spinoff. The backdoor pilot hasn't even aired yet and it's already hurting it's credibility ; this is a potential dealbreaker for me if they show it, and if they don't, why put Sam and Dean there at all ?

 

What the hell was he thinking ?

[G-Man]

Got say this season really has me hook. Each episode is more intriguing than the last. I wonder who whose stronger AU Michael or Jack by the way is Kaia dead or is she with sam and dean in the ancient world 

[MysteryGuest]

Maybe it's not really dinosaurs, just some big-assed monster.  I think Jurassic World would be a bit difficult for SPN/CW to pull of with any success.  I don't see the boys being stuck in this world for long for that very reason.

[Wynne88]

What happened to the blood sigil that disappears all angels in the vicinity?  Why didn't they use that?

[MysteryGuest]

2 minutes ago, G-Man said:

Got say this season really has me hook. Each episode is more intriguing than the last. I wonder who whose stronger AU Michael or Jack by the way is Kaia dead or is she with sam and dean in the ancient world 

They showed Kaia lying on the side of the road in our world.  How she wasn't dragged along with either Jack or Sam and Dean will need to be explained.  

[Lady Calypso]

I liked Kaia quite a bit. I enjoyed her spunk.

Jack still is great for me. I had a feeling he didn't kill the dreamwalker, only because it would be too easy to have him really willingly kill people for his cause. He hasn't stopped fighting to be good quite yet. Also, I will admit, his new power with the two angels when rescuing Kaia was super awesome.

I don't think I liked the directing this episode. Too many weird, documentary-style zooms and weird closeups of parts of Kaia's face in her first scene. 

So, Jack is with Mary. I knew someone was going to the AU world to move that plot along. 

I was disappointed with Dean threatening Kaia. I understand it, but it was a poor decision. I'm glad he ended up apologizing once things turned south. 

[BoxManLocke]

Just now, MysteryGuest said:

Maybe it's not really dinosaurs, just some big-assed monster.  I think Jurassic World would be a bit difficult for SPN/CW to pull of with any success.  I don't see the boys being stuck in this world for long for that very reason.

I mean, the land of the big-ass monster (that suspiciously looks like Vancouver forest) is still way too much for CW budget as well. We're talking about a show that can't pull off Lucifer just standing in front of a mountain landscape, so a giant monster ? Nope. I don't want this evidently low-budget crap in SPN.

[Katy M]

6 minutes ago, Wynne88 said:

What happened to the blood sigil that disappears all angels in the vicinity?  Why didn't they use that?

Sam suggested it, but Dean said if they let them in (so they could use it) they were dead.  Not entirely sure why other than plotline purposes.  Speaking of, did Jack forget he could teleport?

[gonzosgirrl]

8 minutes ago, Wynne88 said:

What happened to the blood sigil that disappears all angels in the vicinity?  Why didn't they use that?

Maybe they thought its effect on Jack (half angel) would be too unpredictable?

[MysteryGuest]

4 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Maybe they thought its effect on Jack (half angel) would be too unpredictable?

I don't think the blood sigil had any effect on Jack the last time they used it.  Normally, they have the element of surprise on their side when they use it, but in this case, they really didn't know just how many angels there were out there.  They could blow some of them away, and there could have been still more to come for them.  And for plot reasons, obviously. 

[catrox14]

I think they are in Oz. Or the Land of Bigfoot. He's a son of a bitch.

That was some bad writing.

The boys know what dreamwalking is because THEY HAVE DONE IT THEMSELVES.

Dean kidnapping someone to find Mary? BULLSHIT FLAG.

And Baby, left there all alone :(. That's the saddest thing yet.

[gonzosgirrl]

I'm going to put Dean forcing Kaia into the car down to temporary insanity from learning of Mary's fate. He did apologize to her, but man, that was dark. I really hope they don't linger in this Jurassic World-scape. It's not just jumping the shark, it's jumping the Megalodon.

I will say though, it was a visually stunning episode.

[companionenvy]

Dinosaurs? Really, show? Since I prefer character to spectacle, not all that impressed by this development. 

On that note, while I liked the show having the guts to have Dean pull a gun on Kaia, I didn't think they built up the tension well enough to justify him doing it. This week would have been a good time for a hell flashback to reinforce exactly why Dean was willing to go to such extremes. I mean, I get it, but I think the show needed to sell it better. 

[catrox14]

47 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Holy crapping crap. Dinosaurs. I shit you not.

Absolute douchebag angels breaking wards by pounding on the ground.

Dean forcing the dreamwalker into the car at gunpoint.

And freaking dinosaurs.

What happened to my Supernatural?

Maybe they are going to the Land of the Lost. LOL

I seriously was like I don't know what show I'm watching but it ain't Supernatural that's for damn sure.  Sigh...

The angels breaking warding was ridiculous. Did they just learn how to do this? Why didn't they do that back in s4 and s5 FFS?? 

[gonzosgirrl]

2 minutes ago, companionenvy said:

Dinosaurs? Really, show? Since I prefer character to spectacle, not all that impressed by this development. 

On that note, while I liked the show having the guts to have Dean pull a gun on Kaia, I didn't think they built up the tension well enough to justify him doing it. This week would have been a good time for a hell flashback to reinforce exactly why Dean was willing to go to such extremes. I mean, I get it, but I think the show needed to sell it better. 

I think it was Jack showing them that Mary was not only alive, but actively being tortured in that cage, that sent Dean into a rapid tailspin of guilt. He needed to get there, now!  He did come around quickly and apologized to her, but wow, my jaw dropped that they went there.

Edited December 8, 2017 by gonzosgirrl

[catrox14]

5 minutes ago, companionenvy said:

Dinosaurs? Really, show? Since I prefer character to spectacle, not all that impressed by this development. 

On that note, while I liked the show having the guts to have Dean pull a gun on Kaia, I didn't think they built up the tension well enough to justify him doing it. This week would have been a good time for a hell flashback to reinforce exactly why Dean was willing to go to such extremes. I mean, I get it, but I think the show needed to sell it better. 

 

 

2 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I think it was Jack showing them that Mary was not only alive, but being tortured in that cage, that sent Dean into a rapid tailspin of guilt.  He did come around quickly and apologized to her, but wow, my jaw dropped that they went there.

Maybe it reminded Dean of being in Hell and he's terrified of that for Mary? They just didn't build it up enough for me for him to go that extreme. 

But seriously Baby is left alone. I am so worried about her. :(

Edited December 8, 2017 by catrox14

[Katy M]

5 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

The boys know what dreamwalking is because THEY HAVE DONE IT THEMSELVES.

Nope. That wasn't the same thing at all. They've gone walking into other people's dreams, not going to other worlds or other plaes in reality.

4 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

The angels breaking warding was ridiculous. Did they just learn how to do this? Why didn't they do that back in s4 and s5 FFS?? 

Actually they did in The Song Remains the Same.

[catrox14]

Just now, Katy M said:

Nope. That wasn't the same thing at all. They've gone walking into other people's dreams, not going to other worlds or other plaes in reality.

Actually, my point is that the writing made it seem like they didn't know ANYTHING about dream walking at all. And they do.

[gonzosgirrl]

Just now, catrox14 said:

You know, maybe Jack showing Mary in the Cage reminded Dean of being in Hell and that's why he flipped out. That was some kind of shitty thing to have Dean do that's for dam

 

Maybe it reminded Dean of being in Hell and he's terrified of that for Mary? They just didn't build it up enough for me for him to go that extreme. 

But seriously Baby is left alone. I am so worried about her. :(

Well they did have Mary duplicate Dean's scream for somebody to help, so yeah, maybe that was the trigger for him. He was having a bit of a break there.

[catrox14]

48 minutes ago, Jeddah said:

She referenced Trump’s America. So what happened to the Lotus President?

OMG I didn't even notice that  LOL. Sigh....Maybe President Jeff had a meltdown after Kelly just disappeared and Trump was his Veep and we just didn't know it. LOL Gods that's awful writing LOL

2 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Well they did have Mary duplicate Dean's scream for somebody to help, so yeah, maybe that was the trigger for him. He was having a bit of a break there.

Yeah. I also wonder though if Jack did something to him.

Honestly, I don't mean to be a jerk about Jared's acting was not great in this episode. It all seemed so forced to me.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

Wow.  That was a riveting hour of television!  Not at all how I expected events to play out.  

My friend, who knows I like SPN and I've tried to get into watching it but has thus far mostly resisted, was over for dinner last night and stayed to watch.  First, when I told her SPN was on, she was less than enthusiastic.  ;)  But when it came on, I noticed that she put down her phone (which she plays on constantly throughout every other show we've ever watched together!) and watched without distraction.  Lol!  I might convert her yet!

I was really disappointed in how easily Dean turned in his attitude toward Jack after the last couple episodes.  Sure, I didn't buy his concern as genuine, but I was disappointed none the less.  My friend also thought Jack had killed Derek, but when I saw the eyes, I figured it was an angel.  I actually thought he'd seen Michael in the AU though, which I still think would have been more interesting.  Both of us yelled at Dean when he pulled the gun on Kaia.  Whoa!  Now, at first I thought that was out of character.  But after thinking about it a little, I'm not so sure.  Dean is a man at the end of his rope - and his best chance, maybe only chance, for getting his mom back is telling him No?  Yeah, I don't see that him letting that get in his way at all.  

Interesting seeing the angel blades melted into the concrete.  

I kind of liked Kaia.  I liked that she wasn't super competent or even confident with and about her powers.    

I wonder what else Jack saw that he showed Kaia.  

At the end, my friend said "So they're in Jurassic Park?"  Lol!  Yup.  Should be interesting!

[ZennyKenny]

Ok, did anyone else just burst out laughing at the last 10 seconds of tonight's episode?

And then just stare at the screen in disbelief?

Like... WUT?

[Katy M]

7 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Actually, my point is that the writing made it seem like they didn't know ANYTHING about dream walking at all. And they do.

But, they don't.  Not this kind.  The only reason this was called dreamwalking is because apparently it happens when you sleep.  I mean I suppose they could have had a throwaway line, like remember that time we dreamwalked in Bobby's head.  That had nothing to do with alternate universes or actually going anywhere.  This is totally different.  Cool.  

Seems clunky to me.

[ahrtee]

1 hour ago, Katy M said:

I know.  Something different.  I'm so excited.  As long as they don't lame it up.

Actually, what I thought was Dean landing in Purgatory and surrounded by red staring eyes....

[MysteryGuest]

1 minute ago, catrox14 said:

The angels breaking warding was ridiculous. Did they just learn how to do this? Why didn't they do that back in s4 and s5 FFS?? 

Desperate times, you know.  They're an endangered species now so they've had to adapt.  

I'm going to assume we won't actually see whatever made the giant footprint.  We may see more footprints, etc., and hear them, but I can't see them pulling off the special effects of actually showing the monster or whatever it is.  Wasn't there a glimpse of a giant skull in Kaia's vision?

I really didn't dislike the episode, but I am puzzled as to why they felt the need to juggle so many other worlds this season.  I honestly think the AU would have been sufficient.  They could have focused on fleshing that world out a bit more.  I doubt we're going to spend more time in The Empty and I don't see them lingering wherever Sam and Dean are, so why even go there?  It just comes across as noise after a while.  All of the deaths last season that didn't amount to anything, and now all of these various worlds that aren't going to end up being explored to any extent.  Rather than scatter the plot all over the place, how about making someone like Michael a bit more menacing, instead.  They couldn't come up with anything better than having Mary hanging in a cage for the entire show?  

While I basically liked the episode, I do miss our little show about two brothers who hunt monsters. 

[gonzosgirrl]

I'm not sure which 'Face' they are referring to, but Berens responded to one of Fangasm's tweets:

[catrox14]

4 minutes ago, Katy M said:

But, they don't.  Not this kind.  The only reason this was called dreamwalking is because apparently it happens when you sleep.  I mean I suppose they could have had a throwaway line, like remember that time we dreamwalked in Bobby's head.  That had nothing to do with alternate universes or actually going anywhere.  This is totally different.  Cool.  

Seems clunky to me.

I understand the difference. I just would have preferred the show to acknowledge the fact that boys do have knowledge and experience with some kind of dreamwalking. 

Sam: "Apparently she can dreamwalk"

Dean: 'You mean without dreamroot or sleeping? "

Sam: "Looks like"

[ahrtee]

15 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Actually they did in The Song Remains the Same.

Once upon a time just one ward on the front door wouldn't be enough to keep the badguys out (even demons need salt at all the windows and doors!)  And I don't think they have to be in the same room as the angels in order to to the banishing sigil (Anna set it off through the walls the first time we saw it) so that should have sent them to the outfield for at least a few minutes (though the time lag seems to be getting shorter and shorter...)

My favorite part was the massive shipyards of South Dakota.  I assume they're near the lush rainforests of Kansas.  (It must be the first time in the show's history that they didn't get wherever they were going instantly...)  

[MysteryGuest]

13 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

I wonder what else Jack saw that he showed Kaia.

I think he might have shown Kaia the same vision of Paradise that he showed to Castiel.  I wonder if we'll ever get a glimpse of it.  Maybe that's end game for the show.  Jack creates Paradise on Earth, and everyone lives happily ever after... 

[BoxManLocke]

3 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

I think he might have shown Kaia the same vision of Paradise that he showed to Castiel.  I wonder if we'll ever get a glimpse of it.  Maybe that's end game for the show.  Jack creates Paradise on Earth, and everyone lives happily ever after... 

Paradise in the AU sounds more achievable if they want to continue on with the show, and now that Jack is stuck there, that one looks more and more likely.

 

Castiel's vision still becomes true, just not in Sam and Dean's fucked up world.

Edited December 8, 2017 by BoxManLocke

[catrox14]

17 minutes ago, ZennyKenny said:

Ok, did anyone else just burst out laughing at the last 10 seconds of tonight's episode?

And then just stare at the screen in disbelief?

Like... WUT?

I just figured they were in Oz because of the green tint. Like maybe it's a giant flying monkey footprint LOL. I'd rather it be Oz than DinoLand.

7 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

My favorite part was the massive shipyards of South Dakota.  I assume they're near the lush rainforests of Kansas.  (It must be the first time in the show's history that they didn't get wherever they were going instantly...)  

LOOOL.

[ahrtee]

3 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I just figured they were in Oz because of the green tint. Like maybe it's a giant flying monkey footprint LOL. I'd rather it be Oz than DinoLand.

It was blue on my TV.  And in the spoiler pics people referred to it as "blue world."  

[ZennyKenny]

5 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I just figured they were in Oz because of the green tint. Like maybe it's a giant flying monkey footprint LOL. I'd rather it be Oz than DinoLand.

Yeah, bringing up Oz is a good point. SPN can get pretty absurd at times, so I guess it's not SO much of a stretch to have the boys end up in a Jurassic reality. It was just the giant foot print reveal that... I don't know if they intentionally copied the scene from the Godzilla movie with Matthew Broderick, but that's immediately where my mind went.

[catrox14]

4 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

It was blue on my TV.  And in the spoiler pics people referred to it as "blue world."  

Ohhh weird. Well maybe that's just how it looked on my PC. I'll rewatch it later and see. But hey ifit's the blue world then probably not Oz.

1 minute ago, ZennyKenny said:

Yeah, bringing up Oz is a good point. SPN can get pretty absurd at times, so I guess it's not SO much of a stretch to have the boys end up in a Jurassic reality. It was just the giant foot print reveal that... I don't know if they intentionally copied the scene from the Godzilla movie with Matthew Broderick, but that's immediately where my mind went.

I'd rather it be Godzilla than a damn dinosaur. LOL

[ahrtee]

1 minute ago, ZennyKenny said:

I don't know if they intentionally copied the scene from the Godzilla movie with Matthew Broderick, but that's immediately where my mind went.

I'm pretty sure it was intentional, just like the shaking ground from footsteps was Jurassic Park.  They do a lot of "homage" (as it's called in polite company).

[Lady Calypso]

23 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I'm not sure which 'Face' they are referring to, but Berens responded to one of Fangasm's tweets:

Judging by the time of this tweet, I'm going to guess the shot of Dean when he found out Mary was alive. 

[MysteryGuest]

30 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

OMG I didn't even notice that  LOL. Sigh....Maybe President Jeff had a meltdown after Kelly just disappeared and Trump was his Veep and we just didn't know it. LOL Gods that's awful writing LOL

They actually made reference to Obama quite a few times on this show, so the entire plot around "President Jeff" was stupid.  Again, have Lucifer possess anyone who wasn't the president, and it becomes a non-issue.  The end result could have been exactly the same without the need for the audience to swallow some giant plot contrivance.  

[gonzosgirrl]

At TorCon in October, someone asked the guys about where/when they would go if they could visit any time in history (paraphrased). Jensen had one word: Dinosaurs. The little shit was totally spoilering us and we hadn't a clue.

[Bergamot]

41 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Well they did have Mary duplicate Dean's scream for somebody to help, so yeah, maybe that was the trigger for him. He was having a bit of a break there.

I admit I didn't notice the duplication of the cry for help when I was watching, but it is certainly plausible that Dean would be reminded of his time in Hell. I'm glad that they showed flashbacks to Dean in Hell last week, because I think that made the connection more immediate and convincing. When he learned about Mary, and went into kind of a trance, with Sam and Jack's voices fading away for him, I thought to myself, "Dean is about to really lose it". And he did. Very intense scene.

23 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

My favorite part was the massive shipyards of South Dakota.  I assume they're near the lush rainforests of Kansas.  (It must be the first time in the show's history that they didn't get wherever they were going instantly...)  

LOL, ahrtee! Best comment of the evening!

[catrox14]

14 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

At TorCon in October, someone asked the guys about where/when they would go if they could visit any time in history (paraphrased). Jensen had one word: Dinosaurs. The little shit was totally spoilering us and we hadn't a clue.

He really is the savviest spoiler monkey. LOLOL

[catrox14]

SPN is being preempted in my area due to fire coverage. :(. I hope everyone stays safe!

[SueB]

Loved the cliffhanger!  Go Jurassic world!  They said there’s a place where the place between worlds is thin.  I don’t think we will be living in Dino land (could be wrong).  

 

So GLAD Jack is with Mary.   Take care of Mom Jack!   Dean and Sam are counting on you.  

 

Dean Dean Dean.  I realized we were in trouble when they did the muted sound from his POV.  He owes Kaia more than a ‘Sorry Kid’.  

So glad Cinnamon Roll is back.