PODCAST S01.E22 Go Pirates!: Veronica Mars Is Knocking On Heaven's Door

[Primetimer]

The good guys find answers -- and serious trouble -- in the fantastic first-season finale.

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[Primetimer]

All the most important -- and fart-stricken -- moments from S01.E22, 'Leave It To Beaver'!

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[weevilswobble]

I learned the spoon trick from this ep of VM and I still use it to this day, sans the vodka.

[Affogato]

I always thought Veronica was an amazingly mentally healthy person. She risks her life and future to find Lilly's murderer and to put her family together and when she succeeds at the one thing and fails at the other she is able to accept it and let them go. Probably how you avoid PTSD.

Backup is a Very Good Boy.

Edited November 17, 2017 by Affogato
Find murderer, solve murder

[Halo]

I also can't with Liane. Her character sucks and I've never cared for the actress (sorry to whatever her name is). I've been reliving (but not rewatching) the first season along with the podcast, and it's been really fun! Can't wait for season two, but am just remembering that V and Duncan try dating again. BARF.

[WhosThatGirl]

I’m so excited for this podcast episode- haven’t had time to listen until right now. The week before Thanksgiving is hectic! (also cannot wait for you guys to get into season 2, I have many thoughts, most of them are rant and somewhat angry, but I feel like you people here get me, right?)

[John Potts]

I have to admit, I never really got Lianne. Supposedly, she quit town because "Mr Weed" sent her photos threatening Veronica. But now Lianne has no trouble sealing from her? Falling off the wagon I can understand (sucks that you drank away your daughter's college fund, but that I can accept as a symptom of being an alcoholic), but to deliberately steal another fortune from her just makes it look like she never cared.

I didn't mind so much the fact that Keith withheld the results of the Paternity Test. Yes he's heroic, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have some pride and wouldn't rather be accepted on his own terms, instead of because of a piece of paper. Keith loves his daughter - but he still has his flaws (as seen especially in S3).

I would love to see a version of the Airplane Slapping scene. with Lianne!

[MostlyC]

Is this the last time we hear Keith say "Who's your Daddy?"  I hope so.

The last episode felt crowded; I wish they'd had two episodes or something to elaborate on the many plot points (Liane, the note in the pen, etc).

The car crash/violence/fight/fire/lack of stunt doubles etc was suspenseful, even knowing how it was going to end.

Logan > Duncan in all ways (especially in the acting).  Especially because Backup is the kind of dog who clearly knows who the good and bad guys are. 

Aaron is one of the best villains out there.

I have heard icky things about the actor, but Mulhany does a good job playing the smarmy semi-corrupt Sheriff Lamb.

Now that I've listened to the podcast, the way Keith handled the whole "sign away your Kane rights before I tell you you're actually a Mars" poorly.

My memory can be ridiculously elephantine: I remember the summer between seasons when people were wildly speculating who was at the door, even dissecting the numbers of the clock (3:07?) because if you turned it upside-down it spelled out LOE.  Ergo: it must[/b] be Logan and it's a secret clue left by Rob Thomas. The conspiracy theories rivaled Lost.

.

[WhosThatGirl]

Spoiler

The Who’s At The Door summer was hilarious with the speculations but considering what they do with it next season anyway, I’m always meh on it. But back then I really was so into it, knowing what I know now though kind of meh on the whole thing.

Yeah I have no idea what the Lianne character was supposed to be. And what she was supposed to be for is as viewers.

 I think we are supposed to feel for Veronica, she misses her mom and that’s why a bunch of times throughout this season the narrative was that Lianne left to protect Veronica but probably more herself, but whatever and then Veronica gives away her college fund to pay for rehab which she doesn’t finish and keeps drinking and then she steals the check from the Kanes. Like no viewer will ever want to see that character again after that. She really served no purpose In this finale(or show). 

[scarynikki12]

Oh I remember all the spec about Who's At The Door.  That was pretty fun.  I remember a fairly large number of us at TWOP initially decided that it should be Wallace, though we still assumed it would be either Duncan or Logan (since we've watched tv before).  I even remember that the Wallace theory/hope gained enough traction that it got back to Rob Thomas and his reaction was "aw, man, what a great idea!  That's not it but that would be awesome". 

46 minutes ago, MostlyC said:

Is this the last time we hear Keith say "Who's your Daddy?"  I hope so.

One thing that I've realized during this podcast is that I don't know seasons 2 and 3 nearly as well as I do season 1 and the movie.  I have no idea if he says it during the series but he does in the movie. 

[jeansheridan]

I just remember feeling super satisfied by the ending except for the silly cliffhanger. And relieved because Rob Thomas was a man with a plan! Our love was rewarded. Not so much in seasons 2 & 3 although Kristen Bell always committed.

[jeansheridan]

I always thought Veronica was an amazingly mentally healthy person. She risks her life and future to find Lilly's murder and to put her family together and when she succeeds at the one thing and fails at the other she is able to accept it and let them go. Probably how you avoid PTSD.

Backup is a Very Good Boy.

You are totally right. She's such a good role model in the first season. Not a super-hero. She can't punch her way out of situations so she has to think and plan and have a taser handy. And she's not always "nice" but she's always trying to do the right thing in any given episode and that's a fairly radical thing to show about a female teen. In retrospect I almost wish they didn't give her a romantic relationship the first season but romance pulls people in and I guess it made her vulnerable and relatable.

[Flamingo]

I, too, find Lianne perplexing. Her supposed motivation to protect Veronica and her actions do not match. I understand Veronica being a teenager and having been through so much trauma, including her mother leaving, grabbing what little hope that her mother wasn't the worst when she found those pictures. That was never completely explained and she never came off as anything but vapid and selfish. Poor Veronica, getting punched in the gut by her Mom every time she needs her. She comes back in a dream on graduation day. Other than that, I think that is the last we see of her. She is a main character in one of the Veronica Mars books.

I must be overly optimistic. I always assumed Keith knew Veronica would sign those papers without hesitation. He knew she would choose him over being a Kane. I think in that manner, he considered the test inconsequential. I thought it was just a fun little misdirection before celebrating it officially didn't matter.

[BBHN]

It's always possible Lianne was always a shitty person, but we saw her as a martyr initially since most of what we knew about her before she reappeared was from Veronica's POV.

[John Potts]

I guess Veronica's view of Lianne might be framed by the fact that she represents an earlier, happier time? Before she left, Veronica had a (rich) boyfriend, popular best friend and was one of the in crowd. After Lianne left, her best friend died, she got dumped, raped and shunned by everyone in town.  V is pretty jaded and cynical, but she does have a innocent, childlike streak when she wishes everything could be like it was, even if she's looking back at her mother with rose tinted glasses... it's a stretch, but it's all I've got.

[BBHN]

Didn't a good chunk of the bad stuff happen before Lianne left?

Edited November 18, 2017 by BBHN

[kmallos]

So here’s my theory on why Keith didn’t tell Veronica he was her father until after she signed the docs... he couldn’t tell her before because then Veronica would be complicit in fraud. If she signed those documents knowing, and the Kane’s found out, they could sue for the $50k and they’d be under investigation for criminal fraud. When it comes to legal docs, ya gotta keep everything on the up & up. :) So i don’t think he was testing her, i think he was protecting her. A plausible deniability thing, if you will.

Love this podcast!!!

[MostlyC]

Yes, I wonder what the timeline is on Liane leaving. After Lily's death but before Veronica getting roofied at the party? 

[WhosThatGirl]

Yeah.. did Liane ever live in the apartment? I can’t eemember. I just remember the scene in episode 1 of a flashback where The family was in the nice house after Keith got fired from  being Sheriff and they are watching Lambs press conference as he took over and Lianne walks out of the room and Keith tells Veronica everything will be fine but Veronica VO that keith was wrong, everything wasn’t fine, they had to sell the house or something.

Lianne bothers me as a character because to us viewers she’s awful. She has not one redeeming character. Also Veronica is so weird on her, she said to Keith once “the hero is the one who stays” but she spends a good amount of time in this season CHASING after someone who deserted her and her dad when the going got tough.  

[Affogato]

One of the thing that bugs me is Duncan's 'type 4 epilepsy'. this exists and is completely unlike the show disease. It is so annoying, they could have just handwaved that he was dropped on his head as a child.  Also, Celeste and Jake both immediately believe he is capable of anything, so he is really swimming in a toxic sea. He is never being let loose on the world, no matter what happens. I think this explains things that happen in the second season. 

The actor may be bad but I think Duncan is a decent person, with some reservations about Meg, who may have withheld information from him.

Also, thinking about Shelley's party, he would likely not be convicted of anything if the truth was generally known and came out in court, which is not something you could say about Logan.

Incest? Well, the way his parents treat him why would he believe anything Celeste said? Maybe when he was in his right mind, not knowing the truth, but when drugged? 

Funny as his acting may be he comes out of a situation that is fairly abusive and horrifying and shows courage, flexibility and resolve. 

Please throw only things I can make into soup. Winter is coming!

[Affogato]

I agree with Sarah that The season is clumsier than memory serves. Some of it is that parts of it are excellent. Aaron's role is great from beginning to end and Logan does some good work as counterpoint. A lot of the characters are consistent even when some of the day to day storylines are clunky.

I think Keith welcomes Liane back because he feels guilty about what has happened to Veronica, not that he knows the half, and that he didn't pay enough attention to her. If Veronica is happy with Liane there, he will take her back. I think at some point, and it may be in the movie or books, we learn Liane was an alcoholic for most of Veronica's life, so assume Veronica was her caregiver and Keith was kind of clueless, worked hard, and ignored the reality of the situation. He assumed if Veronica was happy she was doing something correct. Veronica, on the other hand, kept how bad it was from Keith. I don't think she could just turn away from her mother without self injury until she had proven to hereself that it was hopeless.

Weidman gave the pictures to Liane at Celeste's bequest. When Veronica tips off Jake at the Echoll's Christmas Jake talks to Celeste and tells her to back off (what did you do, Celeste?) . There was no danger at the time she returned, not sure how she found out. 

In rewatching this I really noticed all of the little movie gestures Logan uses. The Bruce Lee gesture on the bridge. The scene with Lamb is one of the few times we see him actually seem vulnerable when he is with someone beside's Veronica. I think this is why he keeps on winning her over.

[Affogato]

3 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Yeah.. did Liane ever live in the apartment? I can’t eemember. I just remember the scene in episode 1 of a flashback where The family was in the nice house after Keith got fired from  being Sheriff and they are watching Lambs press conference as he took over and Lianne walks out of the room and Keith tells Veronica everything will be fine but Veronica VO that keith was wrong, everything wasn’t fine, they had to sell the house or something.

Lianne bothers me as a character because to us viewers she’s awful. She has not one redeeming character. Also Veronica is so weird on her, she said to Keith once “the hero is the one who stays” but she spends a good amount of time in this season CHASING after someone who deserted her and her dad when the going got tough.  

No one lets go of their mother that easily, or anyone they've lived with that long. That would be really crazy behavior.

Spoiler

In the movie she is still trying to figure out if she is like her mother, unreliable narrator that she is, while her behavior is obviously like Keith's behavior (who ignores his personal relationships for his job? hmmm?) 

[Cekrypton1]

Whenever Duncan furrows his brow he looks like a vamp from Buffy. Heh. Stake.

[sacrebleu]

Quote

. did Liane ever live in the apartment? I can’t eemember. I just remember the scene in episode 1 of a flashback where The family was in the nice house after Keith got fired from  being Sheriff and they are watching Lambs press conference 

1

One of the things I really liked about that flashback-- is that you see Veronica sitting on that big couch-- which is shown repeatedly in the Mars Detective Agency. It was too big for the new place-- so Keith used it to furnish his new office. I love that the show stuck in little details like that-- to emphasize the Mars' reduced circumstances. 

[Sarah D. Bunting]

I never noticed that! Good eye.