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Homecoming - General Discussion

Lisin

By Lisin
in Homecoming

Bort
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This show drops all its episodes at once. Spoiler tags not required. If you haven't finished the season, read at your own risk.

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Neurochick
Neurochick

I think season 2 asks a lot of questions about morality.  Is Alex morally bankrupt?  Is Audrey?  At one point Audrey tells Alex that they do what they do "for their family and everybody else are just

Neurochick
Neurochick

II loved it.  I don’t think everything needs a downer ending.  In fact, I’m sick and tired of downer endings.  Save that shit for FX/USA/TNT. I never felt that Heidi was in love with Cruz, more l

sadie
sadie

I enjoyed this a lot. That said, I felt as a character Heidi was just as bad as the rest of them. She was fine with engaging these men in an experiment that was unknown to them, she knew the therapy a

formerlyfreedom

formerlyfreedom

Some on set photos were released the past week;

Quote

Amazon made a straight-to-series two-season order for Homecoming nearly a year ago, amid a very competitive situation. Here’s the logline: Heidi Bergman (Roberts) is a caseworker at the Homecoming Transitional Support Center, a Geist Group facility helping soldiers transition back to civilian life. Walter Cruz (Stephan James) is one of these soldiers, eager to begin the next phase of his life. Overseeing Heidi and the facility is Colin Belfast (Bobby Cannavale), an ambitious company man whose manic demands point to questionable motives.

Photos can be seen here.

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formerlyfreedom

formerlyfreedom

And we have a premiere date and a first promo!

Quote

The half-hour Amazon drama from Mr. Robot creator Sam Esmail is set to premiere on Friday, Nov. 2 on the streaming service, it was revealed at San Diego Comic-Con. The series, which is adapted from the podcast of the same name, is described as a mind-bending thriller centered on Heidi Bergman (Roberts), a former case worker who used to help soldiers transition from the battlefield to civilian life. Years later, living with her mother and working as a waitress, Heidi is questioned by the government about why exactly she changed careers.

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SuzieQ

SuzieQ

We are binge-watching this tonight and just finished the first episode.  Seemed a little "all over the place" but first episodes are sometimes like that.  Definitely kept us interested and set up some intriguing story lines.

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numbnut

numbnut

(edited)

I'm 10 minutes in and can't focus on the story. I'm distracted by the camera antics and the immediately recognizable music from Dressed to Kill and Marathon Man. I forgot that this is a project by Sam Esmail, a guy who's never seen a movie moment that he doesn't want to replicate. *sigh* I want to see Julia so I'll try to finish the ep.

Edited by numbnut
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Cardie

Cardie

Yes, I fear this will be all style--very excellent style--telling a cliched story out of the paranoid thrillers of the 70s. I don't recognize music cues from movies but would be shocked if Parallax View or Seven Days of the Condor scores don't surface a some point. (I know nothing about the podcast except that there was one.)

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numbnut

numbnut

(edited)

Still hanging in despite being distracted by Esmail's penchant for reusing movie scores (Capricorn One) and aping Fincher shots. Storywise, I'm into the conspiracy hunt and the fates of Cruz and Shrier. Heidi is more interesting now that she recognizes her amnesia. I can do without Bobby Cannavale.

Edited by numbnut
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SuzieQ

SuzieQ

I'm on the fence too but hanging in there.  I do like how short the episodes are.  It feels like it's not as much of a commitment.  The characters are largely interesting but I still get an "all over the place" vibe from it.

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numbnut

numbnut

Ugh. More lifts from DePalma and Fincher. Esmail is shameless. Speaking of Shameless, Jeremy Allan White is always great. I hope his character isn't gone for good. Cruz's therapy session was very Manchurian Candidate.

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numbnut

numbnut

(edited)

And we open with more DePalma music. The prank stuff seems like it was written for a different show. Why is Cruz no longer worried about Shrier? Is that due to the drug treatment?

Edited by numbnut
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numbnut

numbnut

Heidi's discovery of the truth was dramatic (aided by music courtesy of John Carpenter's The Thing) but I'm not clear on her knowledge of the medication and Geist when she agreed to work with them. Also why doesn't she have any friends?

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QQQQ

QQQQ

4 hours ago, numbnut said:

I'm 10 minutes in and can't focus on the story. I'm distracted by the camera antics and the immediately recognizable music from Dressed to Kill and Marathon Man. I forgot that this is a project by Sam Esmail, a guy who's never seen a movie moment that he doesn't want to replicate. *sigh* I want to see Julia so I'll try to finish the ep.

Homecoming - A Score of Scores

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numbnut

numbnut

(edited)
6 hours ago, QQQQ said:

Homecoming - A Score of Scores

Thanks, QQQQ. Most filmmakers use established film scores in post-production but only as a tonal guide before creating new music. I wish Esmail put more time into creating original moments instead of "aping" (at least, he admits it) everything he's ever seen or heard in a movie. It's like he was raised as a shut-in at Blockbuster.

Edited by numbnut
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numbnut

numbnut

(edited)

I got through it, thanks to the short episode length (as someone mentioned earlier). I like the classic 70s conspiracy premise but it creates predictability. The foundation of the story (Heidi's truth) remains vague. Why did Heidi believe the medication was beneficial when she was hired by Colin? What emotional need was unfulfilled in her love life before she meets Cruz? It also would have been nice if the story included war scenarios (like the soldiers having memory issues when they return to combat) as that's the reason for the medication, but I guess too much of the budget was spent on securing old music.

Edited by numbnut
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veronicalodge44

veronicalodge44

i'm just over halfway through - no spoilers, just wanted to say that after watching the first episode i was mildly intrigued, but a few more episodes in, the series really grabbed me.  i like that it has so many homages to hitchcock and other filmmakers/films, but it is also its own thing.  

 

and i do feel like the style - visual and aural - suits the content.  looking forward to the last stretch - hope folks stay with it...

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veronicalodge44

veronicalodge44

this is the episode that has made me feel the most so far.  while i enjoyed the first five, i was somewhat more focused on the pieces and putting the 'mystery' puzzle together.  each episode the characterization got deeper and the story is starting to come together.

 

i love marianna jean-baptiste (got to see her live in the vagina monologues in london once - a real treat), and watching her character's realization and then trip to tampa to find her son, oh my.  and the scenes with walter and then with heidi when she's leaving - gold.  so interesting but also felt true that her character puts the pieces together about the company sponsoring this "treatment" and its inevitably nefarious aims.  i felt her frustration and even though i knew it was unrealistic - given generic conventions but also what we know of the characters thus far - still wanted to scream at both walter and heidi to give in to her wishes and then to get the hell out of there for themselves as well!

 

and the colin-heidi scenes were heartbreaking.  heidi's revelations about her own lying and pretending were powerful, and the later cut to her buttoning her shirt in the motel room with colin - so, so sad.  there were even some moments where colin seemed more sympathetic in these scenes, but nonetheless he's a scoundrel who is definitely in CYA mode.  

 

looking forward to the rest and wondering if frankie shaw's character is going to come into play again - seems like a role/actress that would be used for bigger plot points.  perhaps she will have something to do with heidi realizing who colin is - i'm definitely excited for that reveal, that's for sure.

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veronicalodge44

veronicalodge44

by this episode i really started noticing how amazing stephan james is.  i find him so watchable.  and he seems so natural even while he's magnetic.  i am loving the chemistry between him and julia roberts.  and i care more about his character, walter, than anyone else in the series.  really terrific performance.

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veronicalodge44

veronicalodge44

i think she knew that the medication would take away the traumatic part of their memories and the associated feelings - clearly she didn't expect it to wipe away whole portions of their memories and, as she said about walter, make them into a seemingly different person.

 

and i think we're supposed to see hiedi as somewhat troubled herself, from a lower- or working-class background, took some time to find herself and what she wanted do with her life, somewhat of a loner, close to her mother, and probably she was thrilled to get this job and did believe she was helping people.

 

and yes, the scene with walter in therapy where she realizes his memory has been majorly wiped - very intense.  heidi is trying to hold it together as she starts to understand the extent of his forgetting, and walter picks up on it.  she has to deny it's anything to worry about.  i was wondering if tom c. listening to that session's recording in his car in the future timeline, understood the significance of their exchange. . .

 

when she drives off with colin at the end - i am feeling so anxious for her!  and i am terribly worried about walter and wishing, against the signs i know, that he is in the later timeline somehow ok (at least alive, and not as damaged as shrier)

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BeatrixK

BeatrixK

(edited)

Not sure if it's just me being weird -- I love the story....but the score was really weird.  The link above helped...but it was a weird choice, because I spent too much time thinking 'What movie have I heard that from?'

But yeah -- I agree..the first episode is a little tough to get used to, style-wise...but if you stick with it, it pays off.

Edited by BeatrixK
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Cardie

Cardie

Up until the last episode I found it well done if predictable, but these thrillers work best with ambiguous or downer endings. Shrier, to be sure, seemed permanently wrecked but in general the right people had to take the fall and Heidi and Cruz (Heidi Cruz!!!!) were OK in the end. Carrasco remained a cog but got his job done and wasn't assassinated by big Gov/big Corp as I feared. And then Heidi cougarishly stalks Cruz. She's old enough to be his mother (superbly played by Jean-Baptiste.)

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Neurochick

Neurochick

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(edited)

II loved it.  I don’t think everything needs a downer ending.  In fact, I’m sick and tired of downer endings.  Save that shit for FX/USA/TNT.

I never felt that Heidi was in love with Cruz, more like a best friend or a older sister/younger brother relationship, the way they teased each other like two kids (gluing stuff to other stuff, the pelican in her office).

I think Heidi believed that the medication would remove PTSD, and the men could go on to live productive lives.  What happened was the medication removed memories and Heidi felt that went too far.  Heidi went into the job believing in the process, not knowing it meant the men would be redeployed.  Cruz believed in her and in the process.  That was why at the end, Heidi hid the map from him.  She didn’t want him to relieve Homecoming, she felt she’d betrayed him and like his mother said, he was finally in a good place.

Edited by Neurochick
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veronicalodge44

veronicalodge44

wow, the tension and climactic moments of this episode were very intense.  and i loved how the timelines converged, in that in each, we see the moment when heidi learns about and faces reality, and in neither instance is it easy to digest.  her anguish is real, both in the moment in her office and when she remembers everything (or at least enough to know that colin is a snake and he's ensured that she is the one implicated in everything!).

 

and i'm at that point, similar to when reading a kick-ass novel, when i both want to plough through and see immediately what happens (or what happened, in this case, too), and i want to delay doing that, because i don't want the text to be over...

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formerlyfreedom

formerlyfreedom

9 hours ago, veronicalodge44 said:

by this episode i really started noticing how amazing stephan james is.  i find him so watchable.  and he seems so natural even while he's magnetic.  i am loving the chemistry between him and julia roberts.  and i care more about his character, walter, than anyone else in the series.  really terrific performance.

Agreed! Just finished this episode and was like, "Wow, this guy is drawing me in!"

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Cardie

Cardie

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

I never felt that Heidi was in love with Cruz, more like a best friend or a older sister/younger brother relationship

That seemed to me how Cruz felt but Roberts did not appear, to me, to be playing it that way. No one stares rapturously at their kid brother the way she looked at him in that diner.

I wonder if her fish went to stay with Qwerty over in the Mr. Robot universe. :)

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Neurochick

Neurochick

8 hours ago, Cardie said:

That seemed to me how Cruz felt but Roberts did not appear, to me, to be playing it that way. No one stares rapturously at their kid brother the way she looked at him in that diner.

I wonder if her fish went to stay with Qwerty over in the Mr. Robot universe. :)

That’s interesting, because I never felt anything was sexual on either of their parts.  I felt it was more, he believed in her and made her feel good about her job and what she was doing.  I think she actually cared about what happened to him. 

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numbnut

numbnut

13 hours ago, Neurochick said:

I think Heidi believed that the medication would remove PTSD, and the men could go on to live productive lives.  What happened was the medication removed memories and Heidi felt that went too far.  Heidi went into the job believing in the process, not knowing it meant the men would be redeployed.

Thanks for clarifying. That didn't come through for me in the nonlinear storytelling.

13 hours ago, Neurochick said:

I never felt that Heidi was in love with Cruz, more like a best friend or a older sister/younger brother relationship

11 hours ago, Cardie said:

No one stares rapturously at their kid brother the way she looked at him in that diner.

I also saw it as romantic connection on both sides, especially as the story highlighted Heidi's breakup with Dermot Mulroney's character (love the "My Best Friend's Wedding" reunion, btw). Whatever was lacking in that love relationship, Heidi found in Cruz but her somewhat happy ending felt unearned as the writers didn't clarify and explore what exactly Heidi needed on an emotional level in a new partner.

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preeya

preeya

(edited)

The one thing that puzzles me. After eating the last stage meal [together with Heidi] Walter lost his memory of Heidi.  It didn't affect Heidi in the same manner as she remembered the map, the plans for the road trip, and Walter. Then she actually takes the road trip they planned, meets up with him in some rural diner, but he has no recollection of her.  What's up with that? Why would/could she remember him but he not remember her?

Edited by preeya
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Penman61

Penman61

(edited)

The score liftings are truly distracting.  I read the story linked above (thanks!), and I think it's a pretty significant aesthetic mistake on the part of Esmail.  Reusing scores from movies whose vibe you want to ape initially sounds intriguing (and makes for a great article), but in practice you're yanked out of the film you're watching trying to identify the original source film of the music you're hearing.  Sorta reminds me of Van Sant's shot-for-shot Psycho remake (though Van Sant seems to have been much more aware of the effect of his "homage.")

Edited by Penman61
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Penman61

Penman61

(edited)

OK, what on earth did the post-credit scene mean?  I'm presuming the point wasn't merely that an inert version of forgetting-drug is now available in a perfume...("and we call it...Lethe...")

6 hours ago, preeya said:

 but he has no recollection of her.  What's up with that? Why would/could she remember him but he not remember her?

 

One of the last table shots showed that one piece of Heidi's carefully paralleled flatware had been skewed...just like he had skewed her desk material when he played the gluing prank.  The inference is that Walter's memory of his time in Homecoming is not totally gone, but that he's pretending as if it is...

Edited by Penman61
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preeya

preeya

27 minutes ago, Penman61 said:

OK, what on earth did the post-credit scene mean?  I'm presuming the point wasn't merely that an inert version of forgetting-drug is now available in a perfume...("and we call it...Lethe...")

One of the last table shots showed that one piece of Heidi's carefully paralleled flatware had been skewed...just like he had skewed her desk material when he played the gluing prank.  The inference is that Walter's memory of his time in Homecoming is not totally gone, but that he's pretending as if it is...

 

Thanks for this. I went back and rewatched that scene.  Now I'm wondering if he did recognize her, then why didn't he acknowledge it.

Does anyone know if there will be another season of Homecoming?

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Penman61

Penman61

(edited)
1 hour ago, preeya said:

Thanks for this. I went back and rewatched that scene.  Now I'm wondering if he did recognize her, then why didn't he acknowledge it.

My guess is that because they were in a public place--a diner in a very small town where everyone knows your business--Walter didn't want to risk being "outed."

ETA: It could also be that Walter shifting the knife was an unconscious reflex, that he didn't actually recognize Heidi, but that reflex is enough to give Heidi hope that the Walter she knew is in there somewhere..nothing like the true love of a good woman to restore your pharmaceutically-wiped memory...

Edited by Penman61
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metaphor

metaphor

2 hours ago, preeya said:

Does anyone know if there will be another season of Homecoming?

The series was apparently picked up for two seasons at the outset, but it is unconfirmed whether the cast shall return for the second season. 

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Neurochick

Neurochick

(edited)
9 hours ago, preeya said:

The one thing that puzzles me. After eating the last stage meal [together with Heidi] Walter lost his memory of Heidi.  It didn't affect Heidi in the same manner as she remembered the map, the plans for the road trip, and Walter. Then she actually takes the road trip they planned, meets up with him in some rural diner, but he has no recollection of her.  What's up with that? Why would/could she remember him but he not remember her?

 

Heidi didn’t remember Cruz for four years.  It wasn’t until she got her memories back, that she remembered the map.   Also Cruz had been taking the medication for five weeks, while Heidi only took the dose once.

Edited by Neurochick
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Cardie

Cardie

9 hours ago, preeya said:

It didn't affect Heidi in the same manner as she remembered the map, the plans for the road trip, and Walter.

It did, as her failure to remember anything about her time at Homecoming in the future scenes proved. But she had taken some of Walter's stuff with her before losing her memory. When the pelican's croaking restored her memories--signified by the screen going wide in the future scenes--she knew the significance of the map she found in one of her boxes.

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BingeyKohan

BingeyKohan

(edited)

My guess is she knows the sound of aquarium bubbles could bring back the memories of Walter’s that are lost, the way the pelican croak brought back hers. 

I assumed the red liquid applied to the wrist was the new usage Colin said he had pioneered, something about ‘comfort’? I assumed she’d already become addicted to it.

like Big Little Lies this was a show I enjoyed but don’t necessarily need to return. Tho it probably will.

Edited by BingeyKohan
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