S04.E09: A Dark Knight: Let Them Eat Pie

[Gobi]

I wonder if Jim's penchant for going into dangerous situations without back-up is a hold over from not being able to trust his fellow members of the GCPD? Some of those guys would not only have tipped off the bad guys that Jim was coming, they would have been happy to shoot Jim in the back.

[Danielg342]

9 minutes ago, Gobi said:

I wonder if Jim's penchant for going into dangerous situations without back-up is a hold over from not being able to trust his fellow members of the GCPD? Some of those guys would not only have tipped off the bad guys that Jim was coming, they would have been happy to shoot Jim in the back.

I don't think they've been consistent with that, but I do believe you're on to something. No doubt Jim remembers "Penguin's Umbrella" where all the cops deserted him instead of face Victor Zsasz.

[festivus]

I can't believe no one's called Bruce Bratman yet, lol. That was the first thing that came into my head during this episode. I love Bruce and I can understand why he's acting out but how he talked to Alfred at the end, that was a punch in my gut. That hurt. Like everyone else I'm loving the hell out of Sofia. All the ladies are really making the show for me this season. 

Edited November 22, 2017 by festivus

[SnarkyTart]

On ‎11‎/‎21‎/‎2017 at 3:34 AM, darkestboy said:

Jesus, that was gory, even for this show.

I did love Pyg's take on Cell Block Tango but getting Oswald to eat a homeless person, damn, I could've done without that to be honest.

I heartily agree.  I've given it some time before posting anything about this episode because I was so disappointed by the extent of disturbing OTT content.  I'm one who loves Gotham in all its dark glory, but this episode was too too much for me to enjoy.  Were it to continue on that track, I'd very sadly be breaking up with it.  I hope this isn't the case because it's truly one of my favorite shows.

That being said, my pretend boyfriend Alfred was so smoking hot in this episode that my fascination with Sophia's stunning beauty confuses me.  I'm someone who pings "strictly heterosexual" on the Kinsey scale, but dayum she is one gorgeous woman.

[jay741982]

On A very Shallow note Crystal Reed has been looking so goddamm sexy on this show!

[Teitr Styrr]

Just getting caught up. My crazy theory is that Pyg is working for Sofia, and Martin is too. Pyg to ensure Gordon stays captain and Martin for the obvious reasons. Why this is a good time to out her relationship with Gordon? I don't know, but I can't shake the feeling that's what's going on.

At first, I thought Bruce was just cementing the "playboy" persona, but by the end he obviously wasn't. Poor guy, and poor Alfred. They'll work it out tho. Heh.

[John Potts]

"So I went off half cocked with only one cop for backup and got my partner abducted"
"And what have we learned from this Jim?"
"Not to take a partner!"

I don't know if that's intended as a deconstruction of the hero who blindly charges into the fray, but Jim really could do with learning to wait for backup. You're Captain (this week, at least) now, you can order people to go with you!

On ‎17‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 2:01 AM, HoodlumSheep said:

Calling foul on that Harper situation. 1) Pyg wasn't even holding the knife to her throat, 2) harper literally gave jim permission to shoot Pyg despite her situation, and 3) he succeeded in making similar shots before (like with the ogre way back in season 1) so the odds were in his favor, i think. But no...Jim is such a good-hearted boyscout all the sudden, there was no way he'd even risk the shot or call for backup or anything

I've read that cops NEVER put their gun down in that situation. Even supposing you can trust a guy with a kidnapper to keep their word (hint: you can't), you're allowing them to abduct somebody where they can do who knows what to them. Bullet beats knife every time, even when the kidnapee isn't ready to react (which she was).

I could have done without poor Sofia having to be saved (by Penguin, no less) from having to eat her pie*. She a Crime Boss, not a blushing ingenue - I wish everyone would stop treating her like she needs protecting from the cruel world. I suppose that may be the point - she plays up "Damsel in distress" angle to get others to underestimate her. And perhaps it's just me, but if I'd go "Well, they're not going to be any less dead if I eat their remains - waste not, want not!" Maybe I watched too much Hannibal (would have loved it if one of the guests said something like "Tastes a bit like Osso Bucco"). Or perhaps I'm just an unfeeling monster.

On ‎17‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 5:31 AM, Kostgard said:

I really hope it's not the end of Pyg. I hope he sticks around for as long as possible or that he pops back up again down the line.

Blackgate and Arkham both might as well have revolving doors for how effective they are at holding prisoners, so I expect he'll be back.

When Alfred said he "woke up covered in blood" I so wanted him to say, "I might have been attacked by a werewolf for all I knew!"

* OK, that sounds really dirty!
 

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎07‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 3:29 AM, Teitr Styrr said:

Just getting caught up. My crazy theory is that Pyg is working for Sofia, and Martin is too. Pyg to ensure Gordon stays captain and Martin for the obvious reasons. Why this is a good time to out her relationship with Gordon? I don't know, but I can't shake the feeling that's what's going on.

At first, I thought Bruce was just cementing the "playboy" persona, but by the end he obviously wasn't. Poor guy, and poor Alfred. They'll work it out tho. Heh.

I thought that too but pretty sure this ep scraps the Sofia/Pyg alliance theory?

 

On ‎06‎/‎06‎/‎2018 at 9:49 PM, John Potts said:

 

When Alfred said he "woke up covered in blood" I so wanted him to say, "I might have been attacked by a werewolf for all I knew!"

* OK, that sounds really dirty!
 

Oh very good! There is no spoon! Also a soldier who served in the first Gulf War?

1. Nice to see Lucius back with actually something to do. Love the detail of the Gothamite who points out that the pigs are eating one of the dead homeless people in front of the GCPD but still keeps devouring his sandwich?

2. What does Jim stand still when Pyg drives off with Harper? Why doesn't he shoot the tyres out or circulate the description of the van? And when he confronts Pyg at the end why does he jump on the table, why doesn't he grab his gun, duck under the table and kneecap Pyg? A little absurd but check out the scene where Jim and Pyg struggle, he doesn't half resemble Hitler. 

3. Note Oswald's little laugh when he realises he has to eat the human pie, considering the irony of what he did to his stepmother? Oswald really is the hero of the dinner nightmare, risking his own life to save Martine and Sofia. But doesn't he carry a gun or at least some deadly trick in his cane?

4. The end of 2 bromances, Jim/Harvey and Bruce/Alfred but Oswald and Martine bond? Extremely painful to watch both. Then again, is Martine on the level, after all we never know the upshot of his little chat with Sofia about what he was writing? 

5. So Harper carries a backup knife? Why not a pistol? Also why don't they secure Jim with his own cuffs?

Was pretty sure Penguin's lackey was going to say "I'm your friend' but he didn't.

Edited June 8, 2018 by Joe Hellandback
Lackey

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎17‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 2:01 AM, SimoneS said:

I love Pyg. He is so freaking crazy and yet entertaining. i hate that he murdered those homeless people, but that dance was hilarious until he stabbed Sophia's hand anyway. He is absolutely right about Penguin being the worse glutton in Gotham. At least, Jim stabbed and beat the hell out of Pyg after letting Harper get stabbed and captured.

 

I didn't like that, Pyg may be crazy but he had some nobility about him, killing the innocent homeless just makes him one more callous psycho. 

On ‎17‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 4:23 AM, DR14 said:

Well, he did collude with the mob (Falcone) to try to get rid of Oswald.  

Harvey was definitely in the wrong not showing up with his fellow cops last episode, but let's not pretend Jim's hands are clean here.

'Noble cause' corruption, not taking Penguin's money to pay his bills.

On ‎18‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 7:11 PM, Danielg342 said:

Penguin ran against James- which is why I thought there were only three mayors in this series.

Then again, someone had to be Mayor at Galavan's trial because James said he resigned the post.

I miss James, I really liked Richard Kind and it was nice to see him as Mayor when he was the Mayor's assistant on Spin City for so long.  

[Ceindreadh]

Pyg poisoned the homeless people, didn’t he?  

Does that mean that everybody who ate a pie is going to be poisoned?  And how convenient that Jim showed up just before Sofia had to take a bite. 

[Danielg342]

On 08/06/2018 at 1:57 PM, Joe Hellandback said:

'Noble cause' corruption, not taking Penguin's money to pay his bills.

Harvey's corruption was noble too- Penguin's "crime cards" did keep crime down in Gotham. How, I don't know, but I'm not going to dispute the show at its word. Let's also not forget that Jim has three murders in cold blood on this show- Theo Galavan, Mario Calvi and Penguin's lackey in S02E01, whom Jim only killed because the lackey owed Penguin money.

I think the bigger thing is that Jim takes "the easy way out" and is so blinded by his crusade for justice that he'll stomp on whomever it takes to get where he needs to go, even if that person is a dear friend like Harvey or even his love interest in Lee. I mean, Jim was only protecting Lee by killing Mario- and Lee, rightly, "thanked" him by leaving him. Perhaps there's a bit of the "screwed if you do/screwed if you don't" in Jim's world, but Gotham is pretty clear that you "clean up" the city at your own peril.

[Joe Hellandback]

19 minutes ago, Danielg342 said:

Harvey's corruption was noble too- Penguin's "crime cards" did keep crime down in Gotham. How, I don't know, but I'm not going to dispute the show at its word. Let's also not forget that Jim has three murders in cold blood on this show- Theo Galavan, Mario Calvi and Penguin's lackey in S02E01, whom Jim only killed because the lackey owed Penguin money.

I think the bigger thing is that Jim takes "the easy way out" and is so blinded by his crusade for justice that he'll stomp on whomever it takes to get where he needs to go, even if that person is a dear friend like Harvey or even his love interest in Lee. I mean, Jim was only protecting Lee by killing Mario- and Lee, rightly, "thanked" him by leaving him. Perhaps there's a bit of the "screwed if you do/screwed if you don't" in Jim's world, but Gotham is pretty clear that you "clean up" the city at your own peril.

But Harvey also took the money for his own uses which Jim never did

[small potatoes]

On 6/8/2018 at 11:57 AM, Joe Hellandback said:

I miss James, I really liked Richard Kind and it was nice to see him as Mayor when he was the Mayor's assistant on Spin City for so long.  

Nice catch!

[Danielg342]

13 minutes ago, Joe Hellandback said:

But Harvey also took the money for his own uses which Jim never did

Arguably Jim committed all those murders simply for his own gain. The City never did benefit from what he's done, for sure.

[Joe Hellandback]

8 minutes ago, Danielg342 said:

Arguably Jim committed all those murders simply for his own gain. The City never did benefit from what he's done, for sure.

It helped fight crime, not pay off Jim's debts as it did Harvey. 

[Danielg342]

4 minutes ago, Joe Hellandback said:

It helped fight crime, not pay off Jim's debts as it did Harvey. 

I'm not quite sure it did that. I think the show paints it that Jim just makes things worse. They sure did after he killed Galavan, subverting the law in the process.

I'm also not sure what benefit Jim stood to gain by shooting Penguin's lackey early in S2. He didn't have to do it, and only did it because Penguin wanted him to do it. There was nothing "justice" about it- just Jim trying to collect Penguin's debt. Which he could have declined to do.

[Joe Hellandback]

46 minutes ago, Danielg342 said:

I'm not quite sure it did that. I think the show paints it that Jim just makes things worse. They sure did after he killed Galavan, subverting the law in the process.

I'm also not sure what benefit Jim stood to gain by shooting Penguin's lackey early in S2. He didn't have to do it, and only did it because Penguin wanted him to do it. There was nothing "justice" about it- just Jim trying to collect Penguin's debt. Which he could have declined to do.

But it didn't materially benefit him, noble cause, Harvey took the money

[Danielg342]

3 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

But it didn't materially benefit him, noble cause, Harvey took the money

I think we're going in circles now, so I'm checking out here.

[Camera One]

This episode was sick, and I don't mean that in the good way.  Bruce was being a total brat to Alfred, so the B plot was also hard to watch.