A Thread for All Seasons: OUaT Across All Realms

[Camera One]

I like that scenario too.  I picked David to remember first, if only because I loved the relationship between Emma and Mary Margaret, and Charming remembering would give a reason for him to interact with Emma.  Since shows love their love triangles, maybe David could try to start over with Mary Margaret and win her over gradually.  I also feel that the Cursed personality of Mary Margaret had room to grow, with the support of Emma.  She could slowly have gotten more assertive.  I could see a Season 2 when she gains enough confidence to run for Mayor against Regina.  If the 2A finale is Regina finding out that Emma believes and that there is an underground movement against her, then Regina can wake up some of the villains and lowlifes of the Enchanted Forest to help her keep her Mayorship - the challenge is doing so with no magic.  But I like the idea of Snow being the one Emma gives the TLK to, in order to completely break the Curse, so she would be the last to remember.  

Edited December 21, 2016 by Camera One

[Mitch]

Bringing magic to Storybrooke really ruined the show and destroyed the set up of S1. If they HAD to bring it to SB then, yes, they should have delayed it for another season and magic should have worked totally different then it did in the EF..even for Rump. As it was SB was only different then EF is that there was no bad CGI backgrounds.

14 minutes ago, Camera One said:

If the 2A finale is Regina finding out that Emma believes and that there is an underground movement against her, then Regina can wake up some of the villains and lowlifes of the Enchanted Forest to help her keep her Mayorship - the challenge is doing so with no magic.  But I like the idea of Snow being the one Emma gives the TLK to, in order to completely break the Curse, so she would be the last to remember

That would have been great! I was looking forward to the curse breaking to see how everyone reacts (and how Regina was going to sneak out of that one) and to see what other villains were in SB unaware their true selves...(I wanted to see Cruella working in a shelter and yes, Ursula frying up fish at the dock. ) If we slowly saw them revealing themselves it would have been much more entertaining and the writers wouldn't have had to go to realm hopping and writing ridiculous things like the Queens taking magic from an egg to keep them young. Having them wake up and working for or against Regina, and getting their own individual revenge would have taken the show a full season. 

Plus, sneaky Mayor Mills and manipulative Mr. Gold made far better villains without magic.

[Shanna Marie]

5 hours ago, Mitch said:

Bringing magic to Storybrooke really ruined the show and destroyed the set up of S1. If they HAD to bring it to SB then, yes, they should have delayed it for another season and magic should have worked totally different then it did in the EF..even for Rump.

They probably should have done it in stages:

1. Cursed Storybrooke, where no one remembers who they are.
2. Curse fading Storybrooke, where people are starting to wake up. They may not know exactly who they are, but they know something is wrong and are able to stand up to Regina.
3. Broken curse Storybrooke without magic. Everyone knows who they are and what happened to them. There's some chaos and disruption as people decide whether to stick with their cursed identities or return to their real identities. Families are rearranged, businesses are closed, some are opened, there's a mix of cultures. Meanwhile, they're on even ground with Regina, and they have her outnumbered, so she's in trouble, maybe even has to go on the run and hide (give some teeth to Blue's warning in the season one finale). She has to deal with having neither power nor control over the situation. Rumple would be desperately working to bring magic, but he doesn't know where dragon Maleficent is, and without magic, he doesn't stand a chance of getting the potion from her, even if he can find her.
4. Storybrooke with magic. Things get shaken up all over again. Rumple can go after Regina for revenge about Belle. That can allow the portal to open and kick off the Team Princess adventure. It would still be a shock to Emma if she's not used to magic working in Storybrooke.

The rush to bring magic was a big part of why Regina's redemption has been so weak. She never got a real comeuppance, never faced any real consequences, and the townspeople never got a chance to be really angry at her because she was too powerful for them to really oppose.

[Camera One]

27 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

I hate Storybrooke. It's way too comfortable of a setting. I didn't mind it in S1/S2 when you were dealing with the curse, outsiders, and keeping the society from blowing up. If it's not meant to be realistic, it's just boring. 3A onward, it didn't need to exist. It should have stayed gone after Pan's Curse. Camelot, Neverland, and the Underworld were all so much more interesting and better arcs. If this is supposed to be a pure fantasy show now, then it should be a fantasy setting.

Seriously, screw Storybrooke. Granny's is dull.

 

17 minutes ago, Mathius said:

Agreed.  If they're gonna go for big "epic" crisises 24/7, they could at least do so in a setting where it makes sense for them to happen.

 

6 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

Or they could do it in such a way that the magic stuff is a striking contrast to the setting. Storybrooke is dull because it's neither magical enough nor normal enough. The magic invasions would be interesting if they were in sharp contrast to a super-normal quaint small town. Or the town could be an interesting, magical place, like a fairytale land in modern America, because of the influx of magical people. But it basically amounts to what looks like a backlot populated by only the main characters.

The problem is that the stuff that happens in Storybrooke could happen in any realm.  There would have been value if there was no magic in Storybrooke, or even if they kept "magic works differently here" and then developed rules.  They don't even make the culture clash/technology relevant to the storyline, since newcomers like Arthur isn't caught by video cameras and Rumple can easily create/edit footage.  Storybrooke is very limiting since magical objects pretty much come from Gold's shop or Regina's vault, which is neverending in their resources.  When the characters were in Camelot, they didn't once mention living without modern conveniences. 

I had always expected them to eventually transport the entirety of Storybrooke to the Enchanted Forest.

Storybrooke with magic. Things get shaken up all over again. Rumple can go after Regina for revenge about Belle. That can allow the portal to open and kick off the Team Princess adventure. It would still be a shock to Emma if she's not used to magic working in Storybrooke.

If they wanted to keep Storybrooke on the show, I think they needed to create limitations whereby magic still has to work differently than in the Enchanted Forest.  

[KingOfHearts]

Well, wherever the characters are, they need to be uncomfortable. That's part of being an adventure series. (Which, let's face it, is what the show is now.) Storybrooke had an edge in S1, not just because it was realistic, but because it was not a safe place to be. It was Regina and Rumple's playground. While threats still enter it today, it's gotten so routine that even the show pokes fun at it. There's no real sense of danger to that. The main characters can go sip tea and go about their daily lives while the villain plots whatever. Not even the Evil Queen seems to scare them. (With the exception of Snow in 6x07.) In S1, while the characters went about their daily lives, that was part of the conflict in of itself. Their "normal" was actually an elaborate deception.

Storybrooke stayed interesting in S2, with Charming trying to hold everyone together and the Home Office invaders coming in. Greg and Tamara posed a bigger potential conflict that were more interesting than "villain wants to rule small town in Maine". The citizens were worried more people from the real world would come in, which gave Storybrooke a reason to exist from a writing standpoint. It would have added another dimension to the show if the characters had to keep tourists unaware. Also in S2, we had Team Princess, which was a fantastic break from the small town focus in S1. Plus in 2B, you had the characters start to wonder if they wanted to live in the Enchanted Forest or not.

3A really proved the show did not need Storybrooke to have an identity. I know viewers complained about it, but it was new, the slower pace was a little jarring after S2, and the potted plants were only entertaining the first few passes. Neverland needed more worldbuilding to appeal as an alternative setting, imo. The last two episodes of the arc in Storybrooke were fine. If the town were left there, I'd be happy.

The boredom really started in 3B where it became increasingly ridiculous for it to be considered "home" for the main characters. They got along fine in the Missing Year, so why was Storybrooke important? Zelena was a threat in all realms, even magicless ones. Emma had more reasons to stay in New York than she did with her parents. The narrative was trying to force her to make a certain decision against what would she actually choose. I won't go into how illogical it was for her to move to Storybrooke. It just was the beginning of forcing the town to be the setting when it didn't need to be.

The rest is pretty much history. The best parts of 4A were Arendelle, the worst in SB. 4B was set almost entirely in SB and it sucked. 5A would have worked fine if the SB scenes didn't exist. 5B was better because it emulated 3A and gave us something new. 6A was absolute trash and it was completely focused on SB. All arcs that have been set there since S2 have been the worst. There's a real pattern going on.

Edited December 22, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

One question is whether the post-Season 1 Storybrooke storylines tended to suck because they were in Storybrooke, or because they were in the present-day, where the Writers tend to stall since the big twists happen in the flashbacks (in the case of 3B, 4B and 5A).  

Practically all the 6A storylines could have happened in The Land of Untold Stories, except for the Cinderella episode, where we needed Ashley.  Archie wasn't used very well... Emma could have been talking to whoever.  Snow teaching at the school again was just idiotic.  The only problem is I felt The Land of Untold Stories was really ill-defined.  It just felt like a place where random characters went.  They would have needed to establish some cohesion and ground rules about that place... Fake Victorian England would have been better.  Alternatively, they could have set 6A in Agrabah, and Jafar could have been the half-season's big bad.  The Evil Queen has been acting like a generic villain.  Most of her schemes could have been concocted by any villain.  

[KingOfHearts]

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One question is whether the post-Season 1 Storybrooke storylines tended to suck because they were in Storybrooke, or because they were in the present-day, where the Writers tend to stall since the big twists happen in the flashbacks (in the case of 3B, 4B and 5A).  

Storybrooke is meant to be the contrast to the flashbacks, which is a fundamental aspect of the show's format. In the past, you have crazy hijinx going on, and in the present you have the more subdued drama. That stopped working after S1 because the SB stuff wasn't any different in style from the flashbacks. There was no contrast. At that point, the flashbacks became either expositional or an adventure that stood out on its own. Artistic mirroring grew rarer. If something in the past was repeated in the present, it was just lazy. But in S1, there was usually a modern spin on it.

Why even have a "present day" in Storybrooke? The fantasy in the flashbacks is almost always more interesting. Not that flashbacks are better (they need to die), but Camelot was basically in the present if you don't consider the time jump. 

Edited December 22, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

Because they are betting on viewers being curious about how things came to be.  How did Dark Emma get that way?  How did they all lose their memories?  But since pretty much nothing happened in Storybrooke, they might as well have told the Camelot story in a linear fashion.  

Now the problem for them is they like writing 2 stories (one flashback, one current) each episode, since they don't need to add meat to either.  

[Camera One]

My friend is back in town for the holidays, and I marathoned three episodes with her... "Her Handsome Hero", "Ruby Slippers" and "Sisters".  

In other words, we watched the Zelena Redemption Tour.  

She was feeling really sorry for the Ogre in "Her Handsome Hero" and thought Gaston was a meanie, which I'm guessing is what A&E wanted the viewer to think.  She thought Regina was being a major hypocrite when she was talking to Zelena, so I'm not sure if that was the intended response.  She didn't enjoy Dorothy at all and thought she was very abrasive (second viewing for me was no better).  She said a few times who cares about Dorothy, since she's just sleeping, LOL.  And she did make a comment how Cora can enter the Light when she's so evil.

But compared to 6A, 5B is practically a masterpiece.  There was atmosphere, there was a point, there was some humor (courtesy of Cruella) and I actually didn't mind watching the episodes. 

Edited December 22, 2016 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

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But compared to 6A, 5B is practically a masterpiece. 

A scene from 5B popped up on YouTube as a "recommended" video for me today. It was the scene with Emma meeting Milah. Just the reminder made me miss the arc, not that it was all that enchanting. It just had atmosphere and a point, like you said. There were things to do, places to see. It had a greater sense of urgency. (Though, even the characters admitted there needed to be more momentum. It was pretty sad that Snowing became regulars at the Gingerbread Diner.) Could it have been better? Absolutely. But relative to what we have now, it's the bees knees.

By the way, I really don't count the S5 finale as part of 5B. The finale is very much on par with 6A and I still loathe it to this day. I didn't think you could beat Cricket Game in awfulness, but surprise surprise.

Edited December 22, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Curio]

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I hate Storybrooke. It's way too comfortable of a setting.

Finally, this board is coming around to the idea! I was complaining about how boring Storybrooke was back in Season 4A, but the general consensus back then seemed to be that it was necessary to have "real small town" breaks in between all the realm hopping. In hindsight, the realm-hopping episodes are usually the best episodes by far. The Neverland arc, The Season 3 finale, the Camelot arc (minus Merida), some aspects of the Underworld, the Land of Untold Stories...these are the episodes that really spark on screen. Honestly, the only realm-hopping episode I've despised is the Season 6 midseason finale, but that has less to do with the act of realm hopping and more to do with the total character assassinations that had to go into creating that episode.

Like you said, this show is essentially an adventure show now, and the initial concept of fairy tale characters living in a small town died after Season 1, so they might as well embrace what the show has become. I'm surprised they haven't adjusted the show's format to allow the main cast to realm-hop every week. It's Season 6, they need to shake things up to keep the audience interested, but instead of progressing into new territory, they decided to take this season backwards into Season 1 territory. (And failed.) But that's the thing about nostalgia and Member Berries—while it's nice to reminisce about the past, it's ultimately better in the long run to be progressive and move forward. Stop with the flashbacks. Allow the characters to use the billion portals the writers have already established, and officially let this show become the "Team Hero realm hops to _______ this week!" show. 

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Now the problem for them is they like writing 2 stories (one flashback, one current) each episode, since they don't need to add meat to either.

 

This is exactly it. They're stuck with this formula and afraid to move away from it, even though it's been bringing down the show for years now. I don't know why they consider linear storytelling to be such a bad thing. 

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By the way, I really don't count the S5 finale as part of 5B. The finale is very much on par with 6A and I still loathe it to this day.

The Season 5 finale might as well be lumped into Season 6 because it literally has nothing to do with everything that came before it. I consider "Last Rites" the Season 5 finale, and that was actually a pretty damn good episode. But once the Season 5 finale hit, it's as if Emma and the gang never even went to the Underworld. It's as if Hook never died. It's as if Emma and Hook weren't Dark Ones. They've never even mentioned Hook's death at all in Season 6! The Season 5 finale kicked off the awful split-Regina arc that has unfortunately taken up all of Season 6 now. I was praying that they would have finished that arc sooner rather than later, but we all knew A&E would stretch this out as long as possible. Wasn't there an interview that came out before Season 6 and A&E were basically like, "Without a split season formula, there's a lot more mystery and surprises we can throw at the audience. The Evil Queen plot won't necessarily be resolved right at Episode 11 like we've done in the past. She could be defeated in Episode 2 or Episode 20. The audience doesn't know what we'll do." And then we were all like, "It's going to be Episode 20." It looks like we're going to be right.

Edited December 22, 2016 by Curio

[Mitch]

Yea, I really get bored with the realm hopping...I guess it may be because the CGI is so freaking bad if I see one more "group scene," in an obviously fake castle background. I also can't help but ask..."where are these people sleeping, eating, taking a dump???" They also don't distinguish the culture or the rules from place and to place and magic is all the same everywhere. Its just another kingdom with cartoon looking backdrops.

I do agree that SB is a problem now as in S2 they didn't really explain how it works now that the Curse is lifted...(again, where does food come from, where does power come from how do credit cards or cell phones work) or why the characters want to stay there and really, live in the same houses and do the same jobs as when they were cursed. What do the main characters want to do with their lives besides the shear stupidity of mouthing off "Being a HERO and finding my happy ending?" What do they want to contribute. Is Regina still mayor? Why and how, does she have a town council she listens to? What does she want to do with her life? Why would the non magical people not want to go live in the real world? Why hasnt someone tired to poison her or aim a rifle at her?

Instead of the stupid land of untold stories they should have just gone with the idea that the original Curse has started a chain reaction and is slowly destroying all the magical realms, and SB is the only place for them to go, so people like Hyde and Nemo can be introduced more "organically" People are landing that are just as powerful as Regina and Rump,and pissed of that their selfishness has destroyed their world.. thought they may not be neccesarily "bad" So power struggles ensue and add that to the general feeling from the EF people that they have had enough of the Charmings idiot rule...things are volatile. Then it would make sense that the Charmings and Regina, and Rump ban together to protect themselves from the other people. They should also actually make SB more mysterious and dangerous and surreal...with  things happen that even Regina, Rump and Blue don't understand or can control and other people trying to harness magic to protect themselves and their families and have more direction in their lives then just waiting for the next crisis and for the idiotic heroes to save the day.   

[Writing Wrongs]

8 hours ago, Curio said:

I hate Storybrooke. It's way too comfortable of a setting.

I like the Storybrooke setting and I like the outdoor Enchanted Forest scenes. What I hate is the horrible CGI EF sets. I really wish Once incorporated more practical sets. Even Merlin looked better.

I remember at one point the rumors abounded that they weren't going to shoot in Steveston any more and people were saying that Storybrooke was done. I can't remember which season that was. What happened to that?

[Camera One]

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Finally, this board is coming around to the idea! I was complaining about how boring Storybrooke was back in Season 4A, but the general consensus back then seemed to be that it was necessary to have "real small town" breaks in between all the realm hopping. In hindsight, the realm-hopping episodes are usually the best episodes by far.

There was always the hope that the Writers would learn how to use Storybrooke, and the hope that maybe in Storybrooke, the characters would take a breather and have a conversation.  But nope.  In practical terms, they do have the interiors of Granny, Mr. Gold's Shop, the loft, etc. and it's cheaper to use them than to rely on green screen all the time.

With poor writing, though, any one "fix" like getting rid of Storybrooke won't do much.  

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Stop with the flashbacks.  Allow the characters to use the billion portals the writers have already established, and officially let this show become the "Team Hero realm hops to _______ this week!" show.

Unfortunately, this will never happen.  It's the Writers' crutch at this point and they can't write without it (they even used it in "Dead of Summer").  Most episodes are built around the flashbacks providing a twist that triggers plot in the present-day.  And the last few no-flashback so-called "adventure" episodes they did ("I'll Be Your Mirror", "Wish You Were Here", Season 5 finale) were just as bad.  

Edited December 22, 2016 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

The CGI sets fit the stilted writing better, imo. It's more palatable to see characters say their cheesy lines in a cheesy setting. (One of the reasons Wonderland can be enjoyable.) I'd rather see Jafar taunt Aladdin with his speech in Agrabah than Granny's. The practical Storybrooke sets just remind me of a time where it was supposed to be more realistic. 

Edited December 22, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

I did think Underbrooke was pretty ingenious in the sense they could use their sets but it did provide an intriguing environment with the cheesiness which made Hades' lines palatable.  

[Shanna Marie]

Let's face it, with these writers, any setting would be boring because they wouldn't bother developing it and they'd stay in the shallow end, then rush on to the next plot point. Good writers could have made Storybrooke fascinating, could have made realm-hopping more interesting.

Delaying magic to Storybrooke would have been a good idea. It would have been interesting seeing the fairy tale characters, with knowledge of who they are, in the "real" world. Then when magic hit, it should have been different than they were used to, like with magic not working on technology, so that technology could stand up against magic and Rumple couldn't magically erase video, etc. And let the anti-magic thing really play out instead of having a "Squirrel!" attack and rushing off to another plot. Some of the Enchanted Forest people have to have somewhat negative attitudes toward magic, given what they've been through.

Meanwhile, Camelot should have been a distinct place rather than Enchanted Forest round two. Neverland should have been an exciting place of adventure rather than a bunch of potted plants. I think the only world that has felt like a different place that's fully fairy tale has been Wonderland.

[Camera One]

Yeah, Camelot did feel rather like Enchanted Forest Redux... basically another medieval kingdom.  When portraying a realm, they really should make a list of iconic places that they could take us to.  Arendelle felt slightly more distinct, despite it being in the bigger Fairytale Land.

Oz also felt like the Enchanted Forest.  I guess we finally did see the Poppy Fields in "Ruby Slippers" but they were lame.  Dorothy warns Red not to get too close to the flowers, and then later, they promptly walk right through with no effects. Dorothy also said that "This is Zelena's territory" when they came upon the field, yet wasn't all of Oz her territory?  They made it seem like the Flying Monkeys couldn't find them in the Woods, but I vaguely remember them being in the woods in 3B.  I've always had problems with their Oz worldbuilding.  Zelena can apparate anywhere, but Robin ran out of the Emerald City and she couldn't follow?  Ditto for Dorothy and Toto and the Scarecrow after they ran out of Zelena's palace in "Our Decay".  

It seems like in "Her Handsome Prince", they made Belle's land into more of a kingdom ("Our kingdoms will unite, and we will defeat this threat.
And you will one day be sovereign over a land far greater than has ever existed."... how could that be possible?  Ever existed?).  In "Skin Deep", Rumple referred to it as "a little town".  

Also, this from "Skin Deep":

Belle: My family, my friends – they will all live?

Rumpelstiltskin: You have my word.

So much for his "word", eh?

[Shanna Marie]

2 hours ago, Camera One said:

Yeah, Camelot did feel rather like Enchanted Forest Redux... basically another medieval kingdom.

I guess since it was walking distance from the Enchanted Forest, it couldn't be that different. Would it have really killed them to at least put it on a different continent so it could have a truly distinct culture? The Enchanted Forest seems vaguely Georgian -- mid-late 1700s -- in most of their style, so Camelot could have been full-on medieval.

I think that's part of the problem -- their world is really awfully small. Sherwood forest is close enough to Knifingham Palace for Charming to ride there to get a plant, and there he can run into the princess from another kingdom. It's an easy walk from Camelot to the Dark One's vault, which is an easy walk from Rumple's castle. Cross the lake from Camelot and you're in not!Scotland. You can walk to Aurora's palace from Knifingham Palace. At least Arendelle was a bit of a journey requiring a ship.

[KingOfHearts]

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I think that's part of the problem -- their world is really awfully small. Sherwood forest is close enough to Knifingham Palace for Charming to ride there to get a plant, and there he can run into the princess from another kingdom. It's an easy walk from Camelot to the Dark One's vault, which is an easy walk from Rumple's castle. Cross the lake from Camelot and you're in not!Scotland. You can walk to Aurora's palace from Knifingham Palace. At least Arendelle was a bit of a journey requiring a ship.

What I don't understand is... how did no one recognize Regina, Snow, or Charming in Camelot? Weren't they all pretty well known? Why was magic so alien to Arendelle yet Misthaven was only a day's ship ride away?

Edited December 23, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[KAOS Agent]

9 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

What I don't understand is... how did no one recognize Regina, Snow, or Charming in Camelot? Weren't all pretty well known? Why was magic so alien to Arendelle yet Misthaven was only a day's ship ride away?

A&E are going to turn this over to Rumpel: You'd do best to stop asking so many questions. Your questions are pointless. Nothing makes sense. Anything's possible. 

[Camera One]

I marathoned "Firebird" and "Last Rites".  They were still mildly engaging the second time around.  Cleo getting killed by a shard of glass from the window was just... I seriously didn't know whether to feel sad or just laugh.  And I forgot that the moment Emma put the jacket on, she said "I've got to get to work!" like it was *instant* armor.   

In hindsight, I think the reason why they don't know what to do with Zelena anymore except create manufactured drama with Regina is they pretty much fully "redeemed" and softened her in this arc, and there was nothing left to do.  The whole Regina/Zelena stuff makes no sense given what we saw in 5B.  If they needed a wedge between them, at least make one that makes sense.

It sucks that the Writers couldn't give us a bit of hope with the pages Henry wrote possibly getting to the right people, since they had Cruella get hold of it... they could have given her a line saying she got the book AFTER many people found their unfinished business.  Then again, the Writers clearly couldn't care less about Aunt Em, etc., so why would they bother.

There were more Emma/David moments than I remember.  Or maybe compared to 6A, it seemed plentiful.  

My friend actually thought both Hook and Robin died for good, so she teared up (I suspect mostly for Hook and not for Robin).  

I forgot one of Robin's final lines... "Who needs a plan when you've got blind luck."  Pretty much describes how this show writes resolutions.  

Watching Emma "choose" Hook over her heart as the true love test to get into the room with the ambrosia, and then in the next episode watching Hook "choose" saving Arthur over getting the storybook that could save Emma... makes you wonder which pairing actually has the true love.

Second time rewatching "Last Rites"... there was an awful lot of Merida without dialogue walking around in the background (eg. Robin's funeral scene)... making full use of the cameo, I see.

Not really looking forward to future rewatches knowing what's coming next...

Edited December 23, 2016 by Camera One

[Rumsy4]

7 hours ago, Camera One said:

I forgot one of Robin's final lines... "Who needs a plan when you've got blind luck."  Pretty much describes how this show writes resolutions.  

Wow! He said that?? haha

7 hours ago, Camera One said:

Watching Emma "choose" Hook over her heart as the true love test to get into the room with the ambrosia, and then in the next episode watching Hook "choose" saving Arthur over getting the storybook that could save Emma... makes you wonder which pairing actually has the true love.

I thought it showed maturity on Hook's part that he saved the man who had essentially killed him by giving him that fatal nick from Excalibur. It was a calculated risk, but he knew he was able to save both Arthur and the book. And at any rate, Hook made Emma leave the UW in the previous episode. 

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Second time rewatching "Last Rites"... there was an awful lot of Merida without dialogue walking around in the background (eg. Robin's funeral scene)... making full use of the cameo, I see.

Snort. Her Twitter rants paid off amazingly well for her! (the writers really do take twitter feedback seriously, lol)

Edited December 23, 2016 by Rumsy4

[Mitch]

14 hours ago, Camera One said:

Yeah, Camelot did feel rather like Enchanted Forest Redux... basically another medieval kingdom.  When portraying a realm, they really should make a list of iconic places that they could take us to.  Arendelle felt slightly more distinct, despite it being in the bigger Fairytale Land.

Yes, and it was weird that the Charmings, Regina and Zelena , who are all pretty much used to castles..were so in awe of slightly altered CGI Castle Design 330.

I had hopes that Camelot and the Dark One storyline would add to the mythos of the show and tie it all together, if instead of jumping to another realm, which is somehow stuck in time yet we know all the story though its concurrent with our timeline...the trip to Camelot was a trip back in time...to our world, at a time when magic (not the same as what we see) existed here. To banish the DO curse Merlin did something to banish all magic from our world, and sent it into an endless abyss, conviently found in what would one day become the Maine woods, which he sealed off. The banished magic created worlds of its own, where magic flourished and became stronger. Which would kind of explain how easy it was for the Curse to create SB and would make it the "crossroads," for all of the realms hence why portal hopping is easier then it was in the EF.

21 hours ago, Camera One said:

I did think Underbrooke was pretty ingenious in the sense they could use their sets but it did provide an intriguing environment with the cheesiness which made Hades' lines palatable.  

True, but even that was stolen from of all things Days of Our Lives and the infamous Salem Stalker storyline. About 10 characters were "killed off" but (after some obvious rewriting) they were really sent to a tropical island which had an exact replica of the town they live in, called Melaswen..."New Salem." and the were desperatley trying to get back to their loved ones while an omniprescient bad guy tormented them.. A & E never saw an idea they couldnt steal! Though soap sets look even more realistic then this shows CGI!

[Camera One]

4 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

I thought it showed maturity on Hook's part that he saved the man who had essentially killed him by giving him that fatal nick from Excalibur. It was a calculated risk, but he knew he was able to save both Arthur and the book. And at any rate, Hook made Emma leave the UW in the previous episode. 

I totally agree, but when watched back to back, it kinda made the True-Love-Test at the Ambrosia Door ridiculous.  Because a hero choosing to save someone else over themselves is actually NORMAL for them.  Heroes save EVERYBODY.  The two events - Emma choosing to push Hook out of the fire rather than get her heart, and Hook choosing to save Arthur rather than grab the book, were pretty much equivalent, yet one was supposedly a test of True Love.  Given the looks that Hook and Arthur seemed to be giving one another, one could easily conclude that they could become a couple too (especially after Hook extended an invitation to Arthur to walk into the light and spend eternity together, LOL)... their bond actually exceeded Ruby and Dorothy.  

I forgot to mention... I was borderline offended when Hades and Zelena had a TLK, even though this was the second time around.

[Mitch]

1 minute ago, Camera One said:

I forgot to mention... I was borderline offended when Hades and Zelena had a TLK, even though this was the second time around.

Also, how do two evil people have True Love? Isnt True Love supposed to be special and rare and completely pure (or as Mae West would say, "Well not COMPLETELY pure")

[tri4335]

2 hours ago, Mitch said:

A & E never saw an idea they couldn't steal!

I wish they would steal the soap trick of having the characters "thoughts" being voiced over then maybe we would understand some of the stupid shit they do!

[YaddaYadda]

28 minutes ago, Camera One said:

I forgot to mention... I was borderline offended when Hades and Zelena had a TLK, even though this was the second time around.

They completely watered down their true love concept, being the rarest magic of all and all that.

Hook: true love is the rarest magic blah blah blah...

Me: Hahahaha, no it isn't! True love is the answer to everything under the sun. Thirsty? Hungry? War? Have some true love.

[Mari]

Um. . . 

Not if A&E were in charge of the dialogue.  It would be "How could I have done this to Regina?  How can I support Regina?  How will this cause problems for Regina?  I'm a horrible person for not letting that villain kill me or my loved ones.  Is Regina okay?  I can get this gaping wound checked out later,  if Regina needs me."

If the performers were able to say their head canon motivation, I'd probably like it.

4 minutes ago, tri4335 said:

I wish they would steal the soap trick of having the characters "thoughts" being voiced over then maybe we would understand some of the stupid shit they do!

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

Hook: true love is the rarest magic blah blah blah...

The Enchanted Forest is made up entirely of trees grown from True Love saplings at this point. That's why its enchanted.

(Ooo headcanon - enchanted wood is from True Love saplings, that's why it's able to bypass magic like the Curse.)

Quote

I wish they would steal the soap trick of having the characters "thoughts" being voiced over then maybe we would understand some of the stupid shit they do!

It's funny. On Buffy, I always know what the characters are thinking, even in brief moments without words. On Once, everything has to be telegraphed in neon lights on a blimp for anything to get across.

Edited December 23, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Rumsy4]

2 hours ago, Camera One said:

I forgot to mention... I was borderline offended when Hades and Zelena had a TLK, even though this was the second time around.

 

1 hour ago, YaddaYadda said:

They completely watered down their true love concept, being the rarest magic of all and all that.

Hook: true love is the rarest magic blah blah blah...

Me: Hahahaha, no it isn't! True love is the answer to everything under the sun. Thirsty? Hungry? War? Have some true love.

Season 5 turned the TLK into a farce (3B already reduced its value). It had three WTF TLKs--Brennan Jones while he was in a coma, Hades and Zelena when he was clearly using her, and Ruby and Dorothy after a walk in the poppy fields.

35 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

It's funny. On Buffy, I always know what the characters are thinking, even in brief moments without words. On Once, everything has to be telegraphed in neon lights on a blimp for anything to get across.

Or explained on Twitter.

2 hours ago, Camera One said:

The two events - Emma choosing to push Hook out of the fire rather than get her heart, and Hook choosing to save Arthur rather than grab the book, were pretty much equivalent, yet one was supposedly a test of True Love.

Maybe the ambrosial test was specifically designed to detect True Love (ie a random act of saving someone wouldn't work), but that's just fanwanking. I agree that the True Love test was poorly thought out. A TLK would have worked just as well, even if the concept has been so diluted-out. 

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

Or explained on Twitter.

A&E should release a companion book after the series is over that just lists all their tweets explaining the show. New watchers need to know the Holy Grail in Rumple's castle is actually a disguised Titan Heart, and that Snowing's eggnapping was controlled by Isaac but actually not.

Quote

I agree that the True Love test was poorly thought out. A TLK would have worked just as well, even if the concept has been so diluted-out. 

The only TLKs the show should have had up until then were Snowing's in the Pilot, Emma/Henry's in the S1 finale, and Philip/Aurora's. I'm sure someone can figure out another way around 3B's curse problem. Ruby Slippers, Wicked Hell, Regal Believer, and the TLK-every-day with Snowing in 6A are all overkill. It would have been a nice bookend for Captain Swan to get a TLK near the series' end. (Even if they we got True Love confirmation before then.)

Edited December 23, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Free]

7 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

A&E should release a companion book after the series is over that just lists all their tweets explaining the show. New watchers need to know the Holy Grail in Rumple's castle is actually a disguised Titan Heart, and that Snowing's eggnapping was controlled by Isaac but actually not.

If the book is anything like their scripts, I'm not sure it would help.  Even much of their interviews have been the same vague nonsense replies.

[Mathius]

I'm pretty sure the TL test was about BOTH Emma and Hook's reactions to their plights, not just Emma's.  Emma pushing Hook out of the fire wasn't the only thing that proved their TL, Hook sincerely insisting that Emma leave him to burn and save herself was also part of it.  If Hook had yelled at her to ignore her own dying heart and to just save him, and she did so, then yeah she'd be doing the heroic thing, but there wouldn't be TL between them since Hook prioritized himself over her.  So the test wasn't just about Emma being a hero, it was about she and Hook putting one another first.

With that said, Arthur also told Hook to not bother saving him before he did it, so yeah....

Edited December 23, 2016 by Mathius

[Camera One]

I was thinking about The Apprentice.  So he could easily create a portal to The Land Without Magic to pick Isaac to be the Author before the Curse lowered the walls between the realms?  He went to all this trouble to pick a guy who obviously had issues?  Did something lead him to Isaac?  They didn't even bother to link the idiotic Author business back to "The Sorcerer" aka Merlin when the gang finally met him in Season 5.  

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

He went to all this trouble to pick a guy who obviously had issues?

Well, the Pen picked him with its glowing powers. So really, the sentient Pen is the idiot here.

Quote

 They didn't even bother to link the idiotic Author business back to "The Sorcerer" aka Merlin when the gang finally met him in Season 5.  

While it sort of made sense to make the Sorcerer and Merlin the same person, it didn't fit the Once narrative very well. That connection had no point at all. For it to work, the Apprentice had to be alive for centuries, Merlin needed the ability to communicate while being a tree, and there needs to be a reason why the Sorcerer's Mansion showed up in the second curse. (Which we never got.) I really hated Merlin and thought his character was very mishandled. I didn't really like the Apprentice either, seeing as his only purpose was to spout exposition that made no sense.

The Apprentice expected Henry to not use his Author pen was under any circumstances. So, if his mom was dying and he had the power save her, how would he not act? That's ridiculous. The Apprentice even lied about the Pen not being able to resurrect the dead. (He wouldn't have known whether or not Neal moved on yet.) I think it's dumb that a teenager is given godlike powers yet their only job is to record history. 

Isaac never seemed to age. Did he become ageless as the Author, or did he just "misuse" the power to keep himself young? If being the Author makes you ageless, maybe that will explain why Henry is perpetually 13...

Edited December 26, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[YaddaYadda]

The thing that gets on my nerves the most with Merlin/The Apprentice is how powerful these 2 men were, and yet, they're really not all that powerful, in the sense that The Apprentice absorbed the darkness for a hot minute and it ended up killing him. I get what they were doing with him, what happened to The Apprentice would have happened to every single person in Storybrooke because the darkness was not tethered, but yeesh! I'd think it's something that they would have wanted to go into more depth with with the whole Dark One mythology that they did next to nothing with.

As far as Merlin goes, he died because he got his heart crushed, which is such a pedestrian way to die! And so disappointing! They wanted to expedite him and found the stupidest way to do it. And he apparently had no unfinished business even though he laid the groundwork for a lot of shit, starting with turning the Grail into Excalibur and driving Arthur nuts with that half-assed prophecy. 

I can't even begin to imagine how much better the Camelot arc might have been had they explored all this stuff in depth instead of waiting around until episode whatever number to get started. The worst part is that 5A was actually a good arc compared to some of the crap we have been treated to this half season.

[Curio]

Just now, YaddaYadda said:

The worst part is that 5A was actually a good arc compared to some of the crap we have been treated to this half season.

 

I don't get why the Camelot arc gets so much hate. I think it's actually one of the best arcs the show has done in the entire series, and if you ignore a few Merida scenes, it's incredibly cinematic with beautiful imagery, there are actual stakes, and the characters are put through surprisingly intense situations where you didn't know how it would be resolved. Dark Hook was a legit surprise, even for people who were spoiled. For all the "I hate Dark Hook" and #StopOnceUponAHook posts that popped up during that arc, at least that plot only lasted three episodes. I wish those fans could see what the Evil Queen taking over for practically an entire season looks like.

[YaddaYadda]

13 minutes ago, Curio said:

I don't get why the Camelot arc gets so much hate. I think it's actually one of the best arcs the show has done in the entire series, and if you ignore a few Merida scenes, it's incredibly cinematic with beautiful imagery, there are actual stakes, and the characters are put through surprisingly intense situations where you didn't know how it would be resolved. Dark Hook was a legit surprise, even for people who were spoiled. For all the "I hate Dark Hook" and #StopOnceUponAHook posts that popped up during that arc, at least that plot only lasted three episodes. I wish those fans could see what the Evil Queen taking over for practically an entire season looks like.

On my end, it's not hate, I actually really liked the arc and I've been looking back on it very fondly. I just felt like a lot of things were left up in the air and the Dark One mythology wasn't even something they cared to do in the first place.

I think the entire idea of turning Emma into a Dark One was so that they could make Hook a Dark One. That's the story they hid behind it, and they had 2 rather large Easter eggs for that in 4B. 

I still think that 5x08 "Birth" was one of the best episodes in the entire series.

6A though is shaping up to be the worst arc ever. 

[Curio]

Just now, YaddaYadda said:

On my end, it's not hate, I actually really liked the arc and I've been looking back on it very fondly. 

I still think that 5x08 "Birth" was one of the best episodes in the entire series.

1

Sorry, my comment wasn't directed at you specifically, but at the general comments I've seen about the Camelot arc online. 

Season 6 hasn't had its epic "Birth" episode yet, and I doubt it ever will. The whole reason "Birth" was such a fantastic episode is because it finally resolved some significant plots that had been lingering for the entire season: Emma's Dark One mystery, Hook's Dark One reveal, the forging of the Dark One's Dagger and Excalibur, the beautiful cinematography of Emma crying in a flower field, Emma and Merlin's magic battle, Zelena giving birth... 

There's just no way Season 6 can build to something that epic with what we have right now. They're trying to make the Evil Queen and Emma's shaking hand these epic events, but they're completely uninteresting and anticlimactic because we know how they're going to end—Emma won't die, and the Evil Queen will either be reabsorbed by Regina or she'll die and whitewash Regina's arc. There's no big tension or epic feeling this season. Shaking hands and a battle on Main Street is repetitive and uninspired. Agrabah hasn't been given a proper introduction so I don't feel any emotional connection to it. The Evil Queen is overplayed. Storybrooke isn't nearly as cinematic as the show likes to think it is. And a huge reason "Birth" works so well is because Emma is the heart of the episode. I'm sorry, but Regina just does not work as the heart of the show as well as Emma does, and Season 6 is suffering because they're trying to force Regina to be the heart now. 

[Camera One]

Even "The Bear King" was more "fun" and entertaining than half the episodes in 6A (going too far?  ;).   If they want to do a depressing drama about The Count of Monte Cristo, Charlotte and The Oracle, etc. dying, then at least make their deaths mean something rather than forgotten and ignored like they weren't even people.  

[Curio]

Just now, Camera One said:

If they want to do a depressing drama about The Count of Monte Cristo, Charlotte and The Oracle, etc. dying, then at least make their deaths mean something rather than forgotten and ignored like they weren't even people.  

1

Percival and Graham can welcome them in the Under-Underbrooke, the place where Regina's true victims still hold bitter grudges.

[andromeda331]

For me its Camelot could have been really good and yet there were so many misses and so many things they never resolved its hard for me to like or even pick a point to re-watch  unlike other seasons there's usually a few different episodes or arcs I want to re-watch. No one in Camelot never finds out they've been sanded or that Arthur sand them. Merlin who was and should have been a really cool character really...wasn't. He sent half-messages to Arthur since he was a kid that messed the kid up and showed up to talk to little Emma to give her a half-baked message. He never ended up explaining anything or doing anything. Neither did Lancelot. I mean why did they even bring him back? He could have been a friend and ally to group since he had been friends with Snow and Charming, but ended up doing very little. At the same time we have Emma who's dark, and yet she never really did anything truly evil or bad despite the fact she gets hammered as if she did. No one ever did anything to try and help Emma or save her except for Hook. Not her parents who despite saying they would never did. They barely had any scenes with their dark daughter. Charming taught Regina to dance instead of his daughter, and stupidly gave up important information to Arthur when they were trying to see if he was bad. We met another villager who's village Regina slaughtered who was killed because how dare he try to kill the woman who slaughtered his entire village.  Nothing was resolved in the Camelot story there or when Camelot came to Storybrooke. 

The twist about Hook was a good one but not him trying to bring back all the Dark Ones or what ever, it didn't make any sense. It could have and should have been more exciting with all the Dark Ones arriving in town. Hook's sacrifice was good one. Rumple of course ruins it by somehow getting all of the power of the Dark ones.  

Underbrooke should have been really good too. It could have been great to see the Heroes meeting up with those that died. It was fun to see Cruella.  Charming meeting up with his parents or Snow with her parents (I know that would have to mean the writers care about that stuff). Even the stuff with his brother should have and could have been better. But it ended up only being Regina meeting up with her parents, being forgive by her father, a horse and Cora getting into Heaven. Hook learning his brother murdered his crew and Rumple killing Milah again. We never got a scene with Milah and Hook or Milah, Hook and Emma. Or Milah meeting her grandson.  Robin not doing anything until he stupidly decides to get his daughter back with zero plan ending in his death. Hook coming back to life and no one responding except for Emma and Charming. Then yet another road trip for Emma and Regina chase after their idiotic son and deciding to "split" Regina.

11 hours ago, Curio said:

Percival and Graham can welcome them in the Under-Underbrooke, the place where Regina's true victims still hold bitter grudges.

Heh, maybe that's the real Heaven. They just all tricked everyone and Cora into believing where she was going was "Heaven" when it was really Hell. Or maybe Cora's arriving in Heaven because her victims have some unresolved issues with her they'd like to work out.

Edited December 27, 2016 by andromeda331

[Free]

13 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

For me its Camelot could have been really good and yet there were so many misses and so many things they never resolved its hard for me to like or even pick a point to re-watch  unlike other seasons there's usually a few different episodes or arcs I want to re-watch. No one in Camelot never finds out they've been sanded or that Arthur sand them. Merlin who was and should have been a really cool character really...wasn't. He sent half-messages to Arthur since he was a kid that messed the kid up and showed up to talk to little Emma to give her a half-baked message. He never ended up explaining anything or doing anything. Neither did Lancelot. I mean why did they even bring him back? He could have been a friend and ally to group since he had been friends with Snow and Charming, but ended up doing very little. At the same time we have Emma who's dark, and yet she never really did anything truly evil or bad despite the fact she gets hammered as if she did. No one ever did anything to try and help Emma or save her except for Hook. Not her parents who despite saying they would never did. They barely had any scenes with their dark daughter. Charming taught Regina to dance instead of his daughter, and stupidly gave up important information to Arthur when they were trying to see if he was bad. We met another villager who's village Regina slaughtered who was killed because how dare he try to kill the woman who slaughtered his entire village.  Nothing was resolved in the Camelot story there or when Camelot came to Storybrooke. 

The twist about Hook was a good one but not him trying to bring back all the Dark Ones or what ever, it didn't make any sense. It could have and should have been more exciting with all the Dark Ones arriving in town. Hook's sacrifice was good one. Rumple of course ruins it by somehow getting all of the power of the Dark ones.  

Underbrooke should have been really good too. It could have been great to see the Heroes meeting up with those that died. It was fun to see Cruella.  Charming meeting up with his parents or Snow with her parents (I know that would have to mean the writers care about that stuff). Even the stuff with his brother should have and could have been better. But it ended up only being Regina meeting up with her parents, being forgive by her father, a horse and Cora getting into Heaven. Hook learning his brother murdered his crew and Rumple killing Milah again. We never got a scene with Milah and Hook or Milah, Hook and Emma. Or Milah meeting her grandson.  Robin not doing anything until he sturdily decides to get his daughter back with zero plan ending in his death. Hook coming back to life and no one responding except for Emma and Charming. Then yet another road trip for Emma and Regina chase after their idiotic son and deciding to "split" Regina.

Heh, maybe that's the real Heaven. They just all tricked everyone and Cora into believing where she was going was "Heaven" when it was really Hell. Or maybe Cora's arriving in Heaven because her victims have some unresolved issues with her they'd like to work out.

For me, Camelot was a messy arc that had a lot of potential that fell at the end: Dark Emma ended up sulking in a corner half the time, the DOs were summoned only to do nothing in the end, the climax ended up being disappointing, and it up going in a circle with Rumple as a cartoon villain all over again.

[Camera One]

I just marathoned "Only You" and "An Untold Story" with my visiting friend.  Second time wasn't any better.  The Regina and Emma scene was the longest scene ever, and they basically had Regina expressing every sentiment under the sun, from her grief, to hating being good, to her struggles with darkness, to apologizing for the things she has done, etc.  I think I thought the conversation was decent the first time since I was struck that she actually apologized.  Knowing Jekyll and Hyde's backstory added nothing to the rewatch.  Everything was just as contrived and none of it was necessary. Regina and Henry BOTH insisted on doing things themselves, despite always shaming Emma for doing the same.  Snow and Emma giving Regina the serum just made me angry again.  And I hated watching Gold in every scene he was in.  I agree with the assessment that 6A began in this finale.  My friend didn't seem to mind this finale at all, though she did guess that Regina would split herself with Jekyll's potion.  

[Camera One]

I was surprised how even Hook was defending Regina in "Only You" at the beginning, to highlight the difference with Emma, or what?

EMMA: When we get to Granny's, I think it's best if you wait outside.... It could push her over the edge.  She cursed an etire kingdom when she lost her first love.

HOOK: Yeah, but she's changed much since then.

-----

The similarities in two lines also struck me on rewatch.

HOOK (to Emma): Robin's death... it can't be easy for her.

But moments before...

DAVID: Zelena, we're sorry.  Wht happened with Hades, that... can't exactly be easy.

-----

The other annoying thing is the omniscience of Hyde right from the start.  At the end of the episode, he tells Regina, "Despite what you may think, darkness is not as easy to snuff out as you might believe."  How would he already know what Regina did?  How did Hyde know Rumple was married to Belle or that Belle was pregnant?  All he heard from Snow in the cage was that Rumple was trying to wake "the woman he loves".  

----

And so wishes with Genie have a huge price, but wishing at the water fountain doesn't?  Henry said he wished Emma wouldn't be alone in 3B and then a few days later Hook came.  So did the wish cause Neal to send a message to Hook?  Or somehow helped Hook know Emma was in NYC?  Or what?  

----

I also laughed when I saw those "Easter eggs" of Paul Bunyan, Gulliver's Travels and The Three Musketeers, etc. in the Storybook Volume II and in the Land of Untold Stories.  So much for the relevance of those "hints".  Plus the book at the library actually had "The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde", yet no one read it?  

Edited December 27, 2016 by Camera One

[Camera One]

My friend was eager to start Season 6 while she was still here, so I fell on my sword and watched "The Savior" again.  It was surprisingly not that bad, going into it knowing full well it's The Regina Show and not hoping for any Emma/Snowing moments since there won't be any.  It was still WTF when Snow thanked Regina for teaching her hope was a choice and just as contrived when they decided to make Regina blame Zelena for Robin dying and still laughable when we heard Regina's never-ending monologue superimposed over random scenes, so it's not good writing.  But I suppose it was better when you aren't feeling the deep disappointment the first time through, and you got to watch the actors a bit more closely.  There were a few decent moments I kind of missed the first time around, between Hook and Emma, that conversation with Henry and Regina was surprisingly ok, and Snow did look pained when she got to mention her mother and her father... I even appreciated Archie more.  It used to be the moments.  In 6A, you go for the breadcrumbs.  You know, because of that pointless red bird.  My optimism might go down with the next episode, though.

Edited December 27, 2016 by Camera One

[AnotherCastle]

Quote

How did Hyde know Rumple was married to Belle or that Belle was pregnant?  All he heard from Snow in the cage was that Rumple was trying to wake "the woman he loves".  

Snow also spills the beans that Belle is pregnant:

Quote

Snow: But killing him isn't gonna change the truth, which is that we don't work for Rumplestiltskin. He's our enemy. He's the whole reason we're here. He tried to steal magic from our town to wake the woman he loves. She's... pregnant.

Hyde: You expect me to believe that the Dark One has found love?

David: Yes.

[Camera One]

Right.  I must have tuned out that line, LOL.

[Camera One]

I am reading random interviews I couldn't read when avoiding spoilers.  This was from a TV Guide interview with the Belle actress before the 6A finale aired.

Quote

Interviewer: Emma and the Charmings all have some experience about giving up or having to be separated from their child. Will Belle have a chance to bond with any of them about what she's going through? 

de Ravin: I don't know!...That'd be nice though, wouldn't it? Maybe they could all go to a group therapy session together.

I guess in interview speak, "I don't know" = No.   Too bad the Writers didn't see this parallel when they wrote it.  Maybe it could have afforded an opportunity for Belle to now understand and become closer with characters other than Rumple.

Quote

Interviewer: What are you most excited for people to see in the fall finale?

de Ravin: There's a lot of stuff going on and a lot of fun storytelling. I think people are going to enjoy it. I'm excited, personally, to see a lot of the ultimate fairy tale stuff with Snow and Charming.

Is she talking about the finale we watched, or is she speaking generally?  Maybe she didn't realize there wasn't much with Snowing?

Quote

Interviewer: She's made it pretty clear that she's not interested in a romantic relationship with Rumple anymore, but is there any hope in Belle's mind that there could be a co-parenting relationship, or did last week's episode erase those possibilities as well? 

de Ravin: I don't think anything is erased. She will never have anything to do with him if she thinks its not good for their child. If she thinks it is, she will. She'll do whatever is best for the little one, and the future will hold the key to that one. As far as [Belle and Rumple's] relationship, you never know. Maybe this is a turning point and there is no going back or maybe it's one of those things where you look back and go, "I never thought that I would get through that," or "I never thought that person would change," and they do. Sometimes they don't.

I didn't quote everything said, but I kind of feel badly for her, since she basically has to answer both ways without committing to anything.  It's impossible to tell what she really thinks.

Edited December 28, 2016 by Camera One