A Thread for All Seasons: OUaT Across All Realms

[Rumsy4]

All Rumple did was to reveal Zelena's identity and any idiot should have been able to deduce that with the big ass green broach she was wearing.

Word. And once Emma split Nealfire from Rumple, he was sane again, and Zelena was able to use the Dagger to get him to do her drudge-work. Until then, Rumps was too batty to do anything more than spin.

Besides, it's not like knowing Zelena's identity changed anything. She was still able to get the baby. Breaking the Memory Curse would have been enough. They would have known her identity at that point. Poor contrived writing results when plot drives the story, instead of characters driving their story.

Edited July 30, 2014 by Rumsy4

[Camera One]

Neal didn't sacrifice his life at all. He did something amazingly stupid and paid the price. He didn't do it to help Emma defeat Zelena

 

I could see how his final decision might be a sacrifice.  He gave Emma permission to end his life right away so that Rumple could tell her the Witch's identity.  And he did that so that people could be saved, despite his initial motivations.  In this show of random magical solutions, he could have insisted on staying inside Rumple until they could figure out how to free him.  Heck, he didn't even request to stay inside Rumple for one last reunion with his son, which was supposedly why he messed with magic which he had hated so much (in 3A, people were saying he would never be able to accept Emma for her magic and suddenly in 3B, he resurrects the Dark One?).  The writing made it seem like it was so urgent (and Neal apparently thought it was urgent to die asap but apparently, the major character revelation in Season 3 is he doesn't think through anything properly), but as Rumsy4 said, the frustrating thing narrative-wise, is when you rewatch, what the hell was the rush?  More like it was the writers' rush as evidenced by everyone getting over the death in a New York minute.  

Edited July 30, 2014 by Camera One

[Shanna Marie]

While catching up on the Spoiler thread, this non-spoilery bit caught my attention:

Also, it's not like Regina suffered *that* much. She also had destroyed Emma's budding romance, once upon a time, by KILLING the guy. Did she feel guilt over it? Hell, did she ever apologize?

And after rewatching "The Miller's Daughter," I think I know what it is (well, one of the things) that bugs me. It's not so much the unrepentant villains who are being treated like good guys. It's that the scales are tipped so heavily toward the villains that there are even viewers who see them as victims of the good guys because they're allowed to suffer and complain about the things that happen to them when not only have the good guys suffered very similar things, but those things were done to them by these same villains (mostly Regina, but also Rumple) and in a worse way.

 

So we have things looking like Emma has done a terrible, horrible thing to Regina by saving Marian's life and bringing her to the future, which may scuttle Regina's days-old romance with Robin, and there are even fans calling for Emma's head for that. But Regina scuttled Emma's budding romance with Graham by murdering him because he was interested in Emma, and Emma wasn't even allowed to be mildly irked by that because at the time she didn't believe in magic and so didn't realize that Regina had killed him, then it was entirely forgotten by the time Emma learned who Regina really was and what she could do. It's totally in character for Emma, as basically a good person, to feel bad because she's caused pain to someone else, and it's totally in character for Regina, as a selfish psychopath, to blow things out of proportion and only see her pain, but it would be nice if the show (in the sense of the other characters or the tone of how it's presented) actually seemed to be aware of how skewed this is. But instead so far, in terms of what the writers have said in interviews, fan reaction and the way the situation has been shown, it's like "Emma has destroyed Regina's budding relationship by unknowingly bringing Regina's boyfriend's wife to the future, how awful!" up against "Regina deliberately destroyed Emma's budding relationship by murdering the guy. Shrug."

 

Or there's Snow's killing of Cora. Regina is allowed to rant and rave and hold a grudge against Snow for killing her mother (never mind that her mother was trying to make herself a super-powerful Dark One and Regina had just realized that it was all about her and that Regina's happiness had only been a smokescreen for manipulating her). But it's a sign of darkness in Snow if she's at all angry about the woman who murdered her mother and who just murdered her nurse after using her as a hostage. Forget about being angry about all the things Regina has done to her. Again, it's in character for Snow to feel bad, but it would be nice if the show gave the sense that this was a sign that she was good and that Regina's lack of repentance was a bad sign for her.

 

Or there's Regina's histrionics to Snow about being separated from her son when she separated Snow from her father, her daughter and her husband. Regina's allowed to feel bad about this horrible thing that happened to her, but Snow's just supposed to take it.

 

So I'd feel a lot worse for Regina now if at any point any of her victims had been allowed to let her know just how much she hurt them, if things had ever been about anything other than Regina's pain. If she gets to feel bad for herself, then her victims should at least be able to admit that things have sucked for them.

[Camera One]

Again, it's in character for Snow to feel bad, but it would be nice if the show gave the sense that this was a sign that she was good and that Regina's lack of repentance was a bad sign for her.

 

I've said it before, but it makes me so angry that the show not only refuses to let Snow express how much having her father be killed off (and the other things Regina have done) has hurt her, but they punish Snow and make her apologize for each time Regina expresses regret.  For example, in "Second Star To the Right".  Regina gets tortured (to get us to believe she is suffering on her road to redemption), and in the same episode, Snow has to feel the pain of the torture too, to atone for killing Cora.  "The Heart of the Truest Believer", the S3 premiere, Snow gets to tell Regina during the storm what she really thinks, but Regina gets to hit back.  And of course, "Bleeding Through", for every Regina's "maybe I was wrong", Snow had to give a "I'm so sorry" and Regina gets to say theatrically that Snow was a murderer while her family members sit by idly not saying a word.  It even extends to the previous generation.  They show Cora in a bad light giving up Zelena for her own best chance, but then we have Eva the vindictive mean girl and Leopold the sleazeball, and Emma's "I thought we were the good guys".  

[Shanna Marie]

They show Cora in a bad light giving up Zelena for her own best chance, but then we have Eva the vindictive mean girl and Leopold the sleazeball, and Emma's "I thought we were the good guys".

It's funny, but the additional backstory made me a lot less sympathetic toward Cora (which I don't think was their intent). Considering that when Eva outed her for being pregnant with another man's child while being engaged to Leopold and being blackmailed about that, Cora lied to Leopold and tried to make it out that Eva was the liar and called her a "brat," I can totally understand the impulse to trip Cora when encountering her later. Cora was caught red-handed stealing from Leopold, and yet she blamed Eva -- after scheming to steal Eva's fiance. While I thought the tripping was tacky the first time around, I had a "you go, girl!" moment after learning their history.

 

It would be nice if anyone ever remembered that the only reason neither Regina nor Rumple is in jail for their numerous and pretty horrendous crimes is that they're both too powerful to be kept locked up. Jailing them would be impossible. Both of them are guilty of multiple murders. They're only walking around free now because no jail cell can hold them, not because they didn't do anything. Forgiveness doesn't erase the consequences.

[ShadowFacts]

 

It even extends to the previous generation.  They show Cora in a bad light giving up Zelena for her own best chance, but then we have Eva the vindictive mean girl and Leopold the sleazeball, and Emma's "I thought we were the good guys".

 

Cora didn't just give up Zelena, she left her alone to possibly die.  Giving her up would have been finding someone to take her (even that reprobate Malcolm did that much), or leaving her at the convent back door, but she left her alone in the woods where she could have been killed by animals or died of exposure before being discovered by a passerby. 

[Rumsy4]

Not only did she leave Zelena to die, her "You would have been enough!" to Regina makes no sense now. She was either lying or manipulating Regina with her dying breath.

[KingOfHearts]

The baby naming was the worst moment in 3B for me. Why couldn't it be Prince Charles?! Heck even Daniel would've worked for me.

Snowing didn't even really think about the name at all. Emma's feelings aside, they barely even knew Neal. It still weirds me they didn't ask Emma or Rumple if it was ok. Would they be comfortable naming their child after a thief?

I'm convinced the naming was the writers throwing a bone to Neal and Swanfire fans. Baelfire would have made more sense to me since Neal was just an alias. But since the media knows Neal but doesn't give a crap about Bae, we got what we got.

Edited July 30, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[YaddaYadda]

Whenever I re-watch the finale, I ff through the naming  ceremony just because...no, really, no.  I still haven't accepted that baby's name and so he is like Voldemort for me.  I'll be calling him You Know Who or He Who Must Not Be Named.  I'll type all of that to avoid the name.

 

Also, even if Hook knows everything that happened between Neal and Emma which I'm inclined to believe he does, it's really not his place to tell neither Snow or David.  The guy is dead and Hook doesn't really play games like that.

[ParadoxLost]

I'm convinced the naming was the writers throwing a bone to Neal and Swanfire fans. Baelfire would have made more sense to me since Neal was just an alias. But since the media knows Neal but doesn't give a crap about Bae, we got what we got.

 

I'm half convinced that the fairy tale folk have town hall meetings offscreen trying to come up with ways to keep Regina and Rumple docile and under control. 

 

Snow/Charming:  "Rumple won't wipe out the town if we name our kid Neal McGuffin Charming in honor of his son.  But just to be sure, Belle you better marry him."

 

Emma: "I guess this means I have to be alright with Regina fireballing Mom and apologize for saving that poor woman from being executed by Regina because its messing up Regina's sexy times."

[Mari]

I'm half convinced that the fairy tale folk have town hall meetings offscreen trying to come up with ways to keep Regina and Rumple docile and under control. 

Archie to Snow and Emma:  During the séance, Snow, you apologize a bunch of times, and Emma, you distort what your grandmother did.  Hopefully, this'll distract Regina from realizing Cora liked you better.

[FabulousTater]

Archie to Snow and Emma:  During the séance, Snow, you apologize a bunch of times, and Emma, you distort what your grandmother did.  Hopefully, this'll distract Regina from realizing Cora liked you better.

Well, to be fair, while I disliked that Emma had that line of "I thought we were the good guys" in that episode (you are the good guys, Emma. Don't ever doubt it), Emma was only going off of what Snow said. Snow told everyone in that room that (paraphrasing) "Cora was forced to give up her baby because of Eva", which we all know was  2000% flaming turd wrong. So Charming and Emma got a completely skewed interpretation told to them by Snow. Really what it is is that Charming and Emma (and everyone in the known and unknown universe) need to stop listening to Snow at all. Especially while Snow's head remains firmly ensconced up Regina's arse. (Everyone should just put any words from Snow White in the white noise pile -- see, the term even fits her name. ). 

Edited July 31, 2014 by FabulousTater

[Dani-Ellie]

Also, even if Hook knows everything that happened between Neal and Emma which I'm inclined to believe he does, it's really not his place to tell neither Snow or David.  The guy is dead and Hook doesn't really play games like that.

 

Neal being dead is the big reason I'm sure this'll never come up again. Not speaking ill of the dead and so forth.

 

And when I suggested that Hook or Henry would want tell Snow and Charming, I didn't mean for it to be in a "guess what Neal did, that jerk" kind of way. More like a "you might want to ask Emma about her life prior to you coming into it" kind of way, making it more about being there for Emma than disparaging Neal. If they did ask and she told them she didn't want to talk or it was water under the bridge, okay, fine. But where we didn't even see them ask, it makes them come across to me as remarkably tone-deaf, especially given the things Emma told cursed Mary Margaret about Henry's father.

 

Maybe Snow believed that first love = True Love because that was her experience, but as Mary Margaret she did hear Emma say that Henry's father was no hero and that he didn't need to know the real story. I would think that would have been a red flag to her that something had happened beyond a bad breakup or obstacles similar to what she and Charming faced, and I would think she would want to get to the bottom of that before pushing her daughter to give him a second chance.

Edited July 31, 2014 by Dani-Ellie

[Mari]

 Especially while Snow's head remains firmly ensconced up Regina's arse. (Everyone should just put any words from Snow White in the white noise pile -- see, the term even fits her name. ). 

Yes.  No one should ever, ever believe what Snow says or thinks about Regina. 

 

I keep trying to convince myself that the original Storybrooke curse had a side effect built in--every time people think about things the castor had done to him/her, his/her brain rewrites things a little, to make sure the curse victim thinks nice thoughts about Regina.

 

The more things Regina's done, the stronger the rewrite. Thus, Snow's overwhelming devotion to Regina.

 

 

 

Maybe Snow believed that first love = True Love because that was her experience, but as Mary Margaret she did hear Emma say that Henry's father was no hero and that he didn't need to know the real story. I would think that would have been a red flag to her that something had happened beyond a bad breakup or obstacles similar to what she and Charming faced, and I would think she would want to get to the bottom of that before pushing her daughter to give him a second chance.

She should, but I don't think it's out of character for Snow to believe the story Neal told, that he had to because of the curse.  She'd assume it was a misunderstanding on Emma's part, and that if it were different Emma would've told her.

 

That's not the way Emma is, but Snow, post curse-break, is not a good judge of how Emma's going to react.  I think Snow expected a much more immediate feeling of "family", and let those assumptions cloud how she dealt with Emma. 

 

It would mean she completely misreads Emma pretty regularly, but doesn't undertand shes dong that.  For example, the scene where Emma confesses she kissed Hook, and Snow's reaction is "I'm sure Neal will forgive you."

[ParadoxLost]

Yes.  No one should ever, ever believe what Snow says or thinks about Regina. 

 

I keep trying to convince myself that the original Storybrooke curse had a side effect built in--every time people think about things the castor had done to him/her, his/her brain rewrites things a little, to make sure the curse victim thinks nice thoughts about Regina.

 

There is so much cognitive dissonance between EF Snow and Storybrooke Mary Margaret/Snow that I think an argument can be made that there is some residual cursed memories that muddles Snow's mind at times.  Just presenting who cursed Belle was, Lacey, underlines that Regina didn't just transport people and stick them unchanged into Groundhog's Day.  I think she added a little bowing, scraping, and cowering to Mary Margaret that ruins Bandit Snow.

 

Are we supposed to believe that Neal didn't do everything because of the curse?  I get the feeling that this is supposed to absolve Neal and both Emma and Snow believe it because its "true".  I don't believe it, but I've always just assumed Snow pushes Neal towards Emma because "it was because of the curse and Neal was pushing Emma to save them all the only way he could" is one of the WTF plot points that we are supposed to believe but doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

Edited July 31, 2014 by ParadoxLost

[Mari]

Are we supposed to believe that Neal didn't do everything because of the curse?  I get the feeling that this is supposed to absolve Neal and both Emma and Snow believe it because its "true".  I don't believe it, but I've always just assumed Snow pushes Neal towards Emma because "it was because of the curse and Neal was pushing Emma to save them all the only way he could" is one of the WTF plot points that we are supposed to believe but doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

I think Neal did run because of the curse.  I just don't think it's because he wanted Emma to be able to break the curse, I think it was because he was more afraid of his father finding him than he was in love with Emma.

 

But, people rewrite things in their heads--I can buy that after he'd gotten far enough away to calm down, he convinced himself that he had to run to make sure Emma would be willing to break the curse, and that's what he told people.

 

And I can also buy that it's  the type of story Snow wouldn't--or at least wouldn't want--to question much.  It allows her to think better thoughts about Neal, and since the last time Snow and Emma talked about Neal, and how Emma felt about him, Emma said she loved him, Snow would want to think kinder Neal thoughts.

 

Plus, Snow would also want to think that Emma told her the whole story.  Emma doesn't usually do that, so I'd be amazed if Emma did, but Snow's best skill is definitely not figuring out Emma's emotional processes.

[Jean]

I think they just destroyed Snow post S1, and it has nothing to do with the curse or merging of personaltites. We all know the real reason she was ruined. The flashbacks of S2/S3 bandit Snow were pretty awful too and not too much like in S1 when they should've been since it's the same time period. S1 Mary Margaret paled in comparison to the cooler S1 Bandit Snow but still better than anything that came after. Mary Margaret was never insufferable like Snow is post S1

In fact I think Emma connects better with Mary Maragaret than she ever will with Snow and Mary would've been a better mom to an estranged grown up kid. Going back to that scene in 3x22 when Emma hugs an indifferent Snow to learn her lesson, MM wouldn't have been indifferent. That's how she got through to Emma in S1, because Emma was touched that this woman would reach out to a virtual stranger. Snow basically lacks empathy for anyone except Woegina. She's incapable of understanding anyone else's emotions and she never just listens. When Ariel was talking about her fear, Snow basically hand waved it away and gave her a lecture. Or when Charming was trying to tell her his fear of fatherhood? Woman just doesn't listen. They've turned her into a walking Hallmark card.

[stealinghome]

The baby naming was the worst moment in 3B for me. Why couldn't it be Prince Charles?! Heck even Daniel would've worked for me.

Ugh, no. I hate that they named Snowflake Neal, don't get me wrong, but anything Regina-related would have been 1000x worse. At least Charming and Snow don't know what Neal did to Emma. They know exactly what Regina has done to them and the people they care about.

 

I'm convinced the naming was the writers throwing a bone to Neal and Swanfire fans.

Yes.

[Camera One]

I was just thinking of how Season 4 might begin...

 

GRANNY'S DINER

 

Looking at REGINA standing forlorn at the counter, EMMA sits down in the booth with SNOW and CHARMING.

 

EMMA: I had no idea that woman was Maid Marion.  It's all my fault for ruining Regina's life.  Someone should kill me now.

SNOW: Me too

CHARMING: Me three.  Wait a minute... I think I might just have an idea.

 

SNOW: Hello everyone, I have an announcement.  We have decided not to name the baby Neal.

CHARMING: Let me introduce everyone to Prince Owen.

 

SNOW, CHARMING and EMMA and BABY walk to REGINA standing forlorn at the counter.

 

EMMA: Regina, I am sorry for ruining what you had with Robin.

SNOW: We know you are heartbroken, so we have decided to give our baby to you.

CHARMING: Granny told us a long time ago, you were stalking a boy named Owen.  So now you can have an Owen of your very own.

SNOW: Plus Blue told us Zelena's magic curse probably turned the baby evil.  Bye.

[ShadowFacts]

All hail Camera One.  Many, many thumbs up!

[KingOfHearts]

I have a question or two.

Why did Regina need to put Snow under a sleeping curse? Why not poison the apple with something lethal?

Why did she have to frame Mary Margaret to get her to go over the town line? Why not just murder her and frame someone else?

[Camera One]

Realistically, Regina should have murdered Snow in her sleep right after killing Leopold, but Evil Villains never do that.

 

They needed to work in the apple somehow since that was in the original story.  I mean, technically, why would the Evil Queen first try to cut out Snow's heart and then later content herself with an apple with a sleeping Curse?   In the original story, it was because Snow was hard to get at, since she was protected in the Dwarves' house, so she had to *trick* Snow into dying.  

 

But on this show, the more they showed Regina having contact with Snow during the Bandit Snow years, the more ridiculous and unlikely it got how she couldn't have killed Snow on their 101 encounters.  And now the theory that Regina couldn't get herself to kill Snow is out the window due to the Stake burning in "There's No Place Like Home".

 

They also reduced the impact of the apple by having everyone and their grandchild go into the Sleeping Curse and then be awakened like it was nothing.  The Sleeping Curse was supposed to be horrible, where you are consumed with your deepest regrets or something to that effect.  But even Henry has been under the Sleeping Curse, and apparently, it's being trapped in a Dark Place and then a Burning Room.  Still scary, but I mean, if Henry went through it and came through as happy-go-lucky as ever, how bad could it be?  It would have been more interesting to see him emotionally distressed for half a season after, and the pain that Emma, Snow, Charming, etc. would have gone through to help him get through it.

 

If you asked the writers, they would probably point to "An Apple Red As Blood", where apparently Regina wanted Snow to choose to bite into the poisonous apple... that was part of her "joys" of getting revenge in a very convoluted way.  

Edited August 1, 2014 by Camera One

[Crimson Belle]

I have a question or two.

Why did Regina need to put Snow under a sleeping curse? Why not poison the apple with something lethal?

Why did she have to frame Mary Margaret to get her to go over the town line? Why not just murder her and frame someone else?

 

Because she's bat shit crazy.  

[Mari]

Because she's bat shit crazy.  

And from Parilla's body language when she plays a lot of those scenes, really . . . enjoys watching the others suffer.

 

She's a sadist.  She doesn't just have sadistic tendencies; she's a full-blown sadist.

[KingOfHearts]

What made the apple even dumber was that they threw out the hag shapeshift entirely too. Was there no more creative way to pull it off than Regina making threats? Snow was gullible for thinking Regina would actually going to keep her word, or for going to the parlay in the first place for that matter.

If, deep down, Regina didn't want to kill Snow, why did she burn her at the stake? Regina has never tried to kill Snow by her own hand directly if I remember correctly, so the 3B finale feels like a major inconsistency to me.

Edited August 1, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Rumsy4]

Well...they showed her slowly choking the life out of her in the "Ariel" episode, for what it's worth... 

[KingOfHearts]

Well...they showed her slowly choking the life out of her in the "Ariel" episode, for what it's worth...

I wasn't sure if she did that in Ariel or not. Thanks, Rumsy!

She could have choked her in Apple Red as Blood, Heart is a Lonely Hunter, Lost Girl, or There's No Place Like Home, so I'm stumped.

Edited August 1, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

Maybe they should have just said Snow was gifted with having 101 lives, so we could see Regina murder her each time they encountered.

[ShadowFacts]

 

She's a sadist.  She doesn't just have sadistic tendencies; she's a full-blown sadist.

 

She is, through and through.  Right til the very recent past, when she smirked on hearing Owen was dead.  And presently she

still has Sidney Glass locked up in solitary.

.  Whatever progress she has made, I'm very unimpressed.  She's deeply disturbed.

[Mari]

I agree with you about Charming and Snow, I would also add Emma to the list. There is no mystery or even compelling story left for them. IMO of course. They are all going to get their happy ending, they are all going to be perceived and "right' or "just" no matter what they do.  They will always win, so really, who cares?

@Rockybeach,

Base on the word choice of perceived, and the quotation marks around right and just, the impression I'm getting from your post is that you think the Emma and Charmings did something very wrong, or are living lives they do not deserve--that people give them credit for being honorable people, when really they are not.

 

What is it that you see about them, that many of the rest of us don't?  What is it they've done wrong, that people are not taking seriously enough?

Edited August 2, 2014 by yeswedo
edited for tone

[Geeni]

 

 

Why did Regina need to put Snow under a sleeping curse? Why not poison the apple with something lethal?

Why did she have to frame Mary Margaret to get her to go over the town line? Why not just murder her and frame someone else?

 

While I agree with the crazy thing, I also think it's because Regina would have much rather seen Snow be humiliated, shamed, and hated; and she can't be any of those things if she's dead. She would probably just be pitied.

[Shanna Marie]

I keep trying to convince myself that the original Storybrooke curse had a side effect built in--every time people think about things the castor had done to him/her, his/her brain rewrites things a little, to make sure the curse victim thinks nice thoughts about Regina.

Well, there was that bit in "Welcome to Storybrooke" in which every day Regina ran into Mary Margaret, and Mary Margaret apologized profusely. When she was getting bored of the sameness and everyone seeming to have no choice but to treat her with deference, Regina even asked her why she apologized when Regina was the one bumping into her, and she didn't have a good answer. That makes it sound like the curse did make everyone fear/respect/defer to Regina, so that may still be there in the "we are both" personas. Snow still has gumption when she's away from Regina, but there's too much meek Mary Margaret when she's around Regina. David's a little more immune because he didn't get the curse persona until the curse was already breaking. Rumple seems to have protected himself somewhat, so he's immune. But none of this explains Henry. If he'd never broken away from the brainwashing and figured things out, I'd have just said it was because of having grown up with Regina as his mother skewing his morals, but he did break away and was urging Emma to resist her, so him coming back around to calling her a hero and being blind to her faults makes no sense.

[Camera One]

But none of this explains Henry. If he'd never broken away from the brainwashing and figured things out, I'd have just said it was because of having grown up with Regina as his mother skewing his morals, but he did break away and was urging Emma to resist her, so him coming back around to calling her a hero and being blind to her faults makes no sense.

 

The real reason unfortunately for both Snow and Henry are the headwriters.  Regina is more important to them than these two, who are considered the most boring of the borings.  

 

That is a good fanwank for Snow, and I'm also going to say Regina' tears in her eyes really did a number on her, and I blame the Diner Speech on that.

 

With Henry, we can say he spent one too many nights in the Burning room, and Regina later mind-wiping him near the end of 2C messed with his memories.

Edited August 3, 2014 by Camera One

[Crimson Belle]

I just presume that when she mind raped him to remove his memory of her plan to murder everyone, Regina did some sort of mumbo jumbo to make Henry sympathetic to her.

[Shanna Marie]

I just presume that when she mind raped him to remove his memory of her plan to murder everyone, Regina did some sort of mumbo jumbo to make Henry sympathetic to her.

I still wish that when his memories were restored after the curse reversal, all his memories had been restored, including those that Regina wiped. But we couldn't have that when we were building up to Regina having pure white love magic and saving the day.

[myril]

Just remembered this: Adam and Eddy had talked about how they'd wished to get Jamie Dornan, Graham, for a visit in season 3, but he was too busy for it. They said, they would tell after the final, what plans they had, if asked:

 

 

“Ask us that after the finale,” Kitsis said. “And then we will tell you exactly what we wanted to do and then you will be so bummed that we didn’t get to do it, and then you will have the same look on your face that I do right now, which is sadness.”

 

(interview: http://www.accesshollywood.com/once-upon-a-time-producers-wanted-jamie-dornan-back-for-season-3_article_90529)

 

Has anyone so far asked them about it?

 

Was just wondering, while enjoying Sunday brunch and doing the usual Once musing (what a habit). First couldn't think of where they could have wanted him for, but guess a heartbreaking scene between him and Emma was the plan in the final episode.

 

If so, Emma should have called out Regina when Regina was blaming as usual others for destroying her majesty's happiness. She should have done anyway, but that would have given even more reason.

Edited August 3, 2014 by katusch

[kili]

First couldn't think of where they could have wanted him for, but guess a heartbreaking scene between him and Emma was the plan in the final episode.

 

I was thinking that they may have wanted him for one of the Black Knight roles. He could have been the one that reported Emma at the ball or the one that was threatened while Regina was killing the trolls. Or maybe they would have had him be the one who tied Snow to the stake. He was completely controlled by Regina at that point and I could see her enjoying make him help her finish the job.

[KingOfHearts]

Concerning Welcome to Storybrooke, that episode assassinated 3 of the show's characters at once - Regina, Snow and Henry.

Although Snow and Regina had a major blow in The Cricket Game, this episode set up the point of no return. We're still seeing the effects of this today, with plenty of Snow guilt and worship for Regina and Henry. None of them have really recovered since.

Dr. Hopper is never going to be out of business when it comes to these three.

Edited August 3, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

First couldn't think of where they could have wanted him for, but guess a heartbreaking scene between him and Emma was the plan in the final episode.

 

Probably for a cameo lasting about 75 seconds.    

 

The thing with this show is - Emma seeing Graham in the Alternate Enchanted Forest COULD have been heartbreaking and profound and drive a lot of Emma soul-searching in Season 4, but ultimately, it would only have been a cameo with very little consequence.  I mean, Emma saw Regina... oops I'm sorry, The Evil Queen at her worse, and it changed NOTHING in regards to how she viewed Regina in the present-day.  Maybe it would have been something trite like seeing Graham again made Emma realize she must kiss Hook since there isn't a moment to lose and life is fleeting or something.

 

Ironic thing is, the little cameos are what practically make this show worthwhile for me a lot of the time.  

[Rumsy4]

It will forever be my headcanon that Baby Snoflake would have been named Graham if he had appeared in the Time Travel adventure and helped them escape.

[myril]

It will forever be my headcanon that Baby Snoflake would have been named Graham if he had appeared in the Time Travel adventure and helped them escape.

 

I would prefer Graham over Neal as name of Baby Snowflake any time.

[KingOfHearts]

Or it could be Lance for Lancelot, since without him he would never be born. Of course I was rooting for Charles...

[Shanna Marie]

Of course I was rooting for Charles...

Charles would have been hilarious, especially if they didn't find out until after the name was announced who "Charles" really was. Awkward!

[Camera One]

How about Baby August?  

[kili]

How about Baby August?

 

That would be one of the few names worse than Baby Neal. August doesn't deserve to have babies named after him. He deserves a punch in the face.

[Camera One]

This should have been the last line of Season 3.

 

SNOW: We have decided to name the baby Prince Tim, short for Prince Time Portal.  Get it???   Anyone???

 

FADE TO BLACK.

Edited August 4, 2014 by Camera One

[Jean]

Maybe Baelfire would've been a better name. The implication is still there for the people who like it or not, but it sounds better than Neal. Or couldn't they have given Neal a better sounding name? I still wonder why Ginny got emotional over it? That's the puzzler. Maybe her "got emotional" is a euphemism for "I think it was total bs."

So I was reading stuff on comic con and somehow came across an article about the SDCC panel that took place before S2 and there were some little gems in there:

According to Josh: "David is dead, Charming is back, and Regina has a lot to answer for.”

Ginny: “Even though Snow White from the present on will not be the same Snow White…as Mary Margaret is integrated into that Snow Whiteness, it will affect Snow White, but she will be far more empowered than Mary Margaret was and, therefore, will have a far stronger stance against Regina.” 

Boy did they ever lie to Ginny.

[Camera One]

If the interview was before 2A, I suppose that was technically true for half a season?  But yeah, they really don't treasure her presence on the show since they continually give her crap writing.

[Serena]

Maybe Baelfire would've been a better name. The implication is still there for the people who like it or not, but it sounds better than Neal. Or couldn't they have given Neal a better sounding name? I still wonder why Ginny got emotional over it? That's the puzzler. Maybe her "got emotional" is a euphemism for "I think it was total bs."

Because Ginny, much like Snow, is all about Neal and Emma/Neal. So it makes sense.

[Camera One]

I just hate this whole shipper aspect that this show gained in late S2 and particularly in S3.  Snow is an emotional person, easily affected by any loss especially someone she personally knew.  Neal died a few days ago.  She was sad for Henry.  She just gave birth and was hormonal.  There is a million reasons why she would look sad and get emotional.