Past Seasons: Classic Who

[benteen]

I never understood when the Doctor and Sarah didn't just bring the Tardis to the Artic in the first place.

[Llywela]

I never understood when the Doctor and Sarah didn't just bring the Tardis to the Artic in the first place.

The Doctor still wasn't very good at steering at that time. They'd most likely have aimed for the Arctic, same time zone, only to end up on Mars a century ago! Safer not to even try.

[Lantern7]

Where was the TARDIS, anyway? I must have missed a mention on where the Doctor stashed it.

 

I think "Seeds" would have worked better with four parts, as opposed to six, but that's mostly because my attention span strains at watching a show for three hours. Also . . . what happened to the first Krynoid (?) in Antarctica?

 

ETA: I heartily advise anybody to watch/record the "Breakfast With Baker" stories, especially if you haven't seen them before. I'd like more Doctors to be thrown into the mix, though mostly due to me not being able to access the stories on DVD from the library. "Porridge With Pertwee," anyone?

[SnideAsides]

I think that's one of the reasons why my two favorite stories from that era were Enemy of the World and The Mind Robbers.

I wholeheartedly support the notion that Enemy of the World is Troughton's best so far. There are things that don't quite work - the accents, the idea that there are Sicilian-esque manors in the most remote corner of Australia, the accents, Jamie apparently somehow throwing something miles into the background, the accents - but by and large it's wonderful.

 

The Web of Fear, unfortunately not so much. Yay for the Brigadier and so forth, and I'm glad it got found, but... it's kind of terrible? I'm not sure whether it's an actual quality thing, or whether it was just too damn soon after The Abominable Snowmen, but something about it just didn't work for me.

[Llywela]

Where was the TARDIS, anyway? I must have missed a mention on where the Doctor stashed it

The Doctor gets involved with the case in Seeds of Doom on UNIT's behalf, so I've always assumed the TARDIS was at UNIT - that he'd popped back there for a visit and got roped into working another case! It's just a shame we didn't get to see any of our old UNIT friends for the adventure, but the show had already moved on. The Doctor's time at UNIT ends not with a bang but a whimper.

[benteen]

I wholeheartedly support the notion that Enemy of the World is Troughton's best so far. There are things that don't quite work - the accents, the idea that there are Sicilian-esque manors in the most remote corner of Australia, the accents, Jamie apparently somehow throwing something miles into the background, the accents - but by and large it's wonderful.

 

The Web of Fear, unfortunately not so much. Yay for the Brigadier and so forth, and I'm glad it got found, but... it's kind of terrible? I'm not sure whether it's an actual quality thing, or whether it was just too damn soon after The Abominable Snowmen, but something about it just didn't work for me.

 

I could have listened all day to Troughton doing that Salamander accent.  He's ridiculously entertaining essentially playing four different characters in Enemy.

 

Do you know what I found disappointing about The Web of Fear?  That the Doctor and the Brigadier's first face-to-face meeting happened off-screen.  The writers couldn't have known how important the Brig would be to the show but still...wish we could have gotten to see their first meeting.  Or I suppose hear would be the better word as the third episode of Web is still the only one that is missing.

 

Yeah, Unit does go out with a whimper in Seeds.  The Android Invasion features both Sgt. Benton and Harry but they are both frustratingly wasted in what would be their final appearances on Who.  Android was a poor rehash of Terror of the Zygons.

 

Once Tom Baker became the Doctor, Unit became hashed out.  Baker talked about wanting to put his own stamp on the role but admitted the more he got to work with Nicholas Courtney (the Brig) and John Levene (Benton) the more he enjoyed it.  He became good friends with Courtney and visited him about a week prior to when NC passed away.

Edited September 21, 2015 by benteen

[elle]

He became good friends with Courtney and visited him about a week prior to when NC passed away.

This made me smile.  :0)  Also, I had the thought that Doctor/Curator Four did visit the Brigadier after all.

[benteen]

There was a book several years ago that every version of the Doctor attended the Brigadier's funeral.

Edited September 21, 2015 by benteen

[SnideAsides]

So Fury from the Deep is about... killer seaweed, that the Doctor only stops because he happens to have Original Screamer Companion Victoria with him? Pass. I admit I wasn't paying too much attention to it, but other recons have been much easier to get into, while this was just painfully bad from beginning to end.

[SnideAsides]

And The Wheel in Space (short summary: zzzzz) brings season five to a close. I already quite like Zoe (certainly more than I ever did Victoria, although I still miss Polly and Ben), but I'm still remarkably indifferent to Jamie (no, I don't know why either), and I'm seriously so fucking tired of the Cybermen. Two bits of good news though: I'm pretty much done with them for a while - The Invasion's near the start of next season, but after that there's literally only one story with them before Adric dies - and I'm also pretty much done with recons. And not a moment too soon.

[benteen]

The Second Doctor/Jamie/Zoe TARDIS team is one of the best.

 

The Mind Robbers is coming up soon, one of the very best of the Troughton era.

Edited September 23, 2015 by benteen

[elle]

Caught a bit of The Hand of Fear today.  I'm not sure it says something about me that having Four dispatch the villain by tripping him into an abyss made me snicker.  I also got a kick out of the yellow lab that was *not* in South Croydon, seems completely unfazed by the Tardis appearing then disappearing.  You'd think the noise alone would be cause for at least a small "woof".    Was this Sarah Jane's last episode?

 

Next up on BBCA The Brain of Morbius.  I doubt it has anything to do with Dr. Morbius from "The Forbidden Planet" does it?

[benteen]

Yep.  It was Sarah Jane's last serial. 

[alias1]

I'm so glad they showed this episode (The Hand of Fear) so I could see how Sarah Jane left the Doctor.  No wonder she was so upset when she met him again as Ten.

[Ringthane]

Caught a bit of The Hand of Fear today.  I'm not sure it says something about me that having Four dispatch the villain by tripping him into an abyss made me snicker.  I also got a kick out of the yellow lab that was *not* in South Croydon, seems completely unfazed by the Tardis appearing then disappearing.  You'd think the noise alone would be cause for at least a small "woof".    Was this Sarah Jane's last episode?

 

Next up on BBCA The Brain of Morbius.  I doubt it has anything to do with Dr. Morbius from "The Forbidden Planet" does it?

 

I don't believe so.  But I haven't seen that movie in so long I could be mistaken.

[alias1]

I'm kind of disappointed that BBCA is showing the Tom Baker episodes out of order.  What was the point in showing The Hand of Fear before The Brain of Morbius?  On the plus side, they will be showing Logopolis on Monday from 10am to Noon.  Is that Baker's last episode?

[benteen]

Yep.  Logopolis was Baker's last episode.

[Llywela]

Logopolis is also the very first Doctor Who adventure I have memories of watching as a child! I was four years old when it aired. I distinctly remember seeing the people shrunken like dolls in the sporty red car and my mum saying that the Master had done it (but not the 'real' Master, the new one, was how she put it, preferring Delgado to Ainley!) - and I have various other fragmented but distinct memories of the story. But it was only years later, coming back to the classic show as an adult, that I rewatched the story and realised that was where those fragmented memories came from!

[Commando Cody]

I haven't seen these episodes since they first aired in the '70s.  At the time they were kind of scary. Finding a hand.  Wanting the Doctor's head.  I am also wondering why they are showing the episodes out of order. 

[Llywela]

I am also wondering why they are showing the episodes out of order. 

Probably because received wisdom would have it that the classic show can be watched in any old order because there's no continuity anyway so what does it matter? That's what everyone always says, and it gets said so much that everyone believes it. So, if you're a broadcaster with a bunch of old Doctor Who serials that don't come with handy episode numbers to give you the sequence, why bother looking it up to see which order they should be shown? Everyone says it doesn't matter, so clearly it doesn't matter, just shove them on in the order they come out of the box, that'll do. *rolleyes*

 

The received wisdom of collective memory has a lot to answer for.

[Glendenning]

At least one Big Name from 1970s fandom is on record as saying he thought 'The Gunfighters' was the worst story ever (but that Season 3 was otherwise The Golden Age).

The big "received wisdom" is the idea that it got Doctor Who's lowest ever ratings, which it didn't. (Ironically one letter to DWAS newsletter 'Celestial Toyroom' in 1990 alleged that no one should criticise Season 26 because the alternative was 'The Gunfighters' and ratings disaster. No one had the heart to tell him that 'Battlefield' got half of 'The Gunfighters' ratings.)

[proserpina65]

At least one Big Name from 1970s fandom is on record as saying he thought 'The Gunfighters' was the worst story ever (but that Season 3 was otherwise The Golden Age).

The big "received wisdom" is the idea that it got Doctor Who's lowest ever ratings, which it didn't. (Ironically one letter to DWAS newsletter 'Celestial Toyroom' in 1990 alleged that no one should criticise Season 26 because the alternative was 'The Gunfighters' and ratings disaster. No one had the heart to tell him that 'Battlefield' got half of 'The Gunfighters' ratings.)

Interesting info about the respective ratings.  I imagine the disparity was simply from the show having been on for so many years.  Certainly it wasn't due to the quality of the respective stories.  The Gunfighters really is the absolute pits.  (Although I do love me some Steven.)

[benteen]

I quite liked The Gunfighters although the non-stop playing of "The Ballad of the Last Chance Saloon" does make you want to bash your head against the wall until its bloody. 

[Lokiberry]

I quite liked The Gunfighters although the non-stop playing of "The Ballad of the Last Chance Saloon" does make you want to bash your head against the wall until its bloody. 

OMG. THIS. So. Much. If you can get through that serial without screaming shut up, shut up, SHUT UP, at your tv, then you're a better man than me.

 

 I quite liked Steven, but Dodo never made much of an impression on me one way or the other. I find it amusing that she eventually just wandered off in the middle of an episode and was never seen again.

Edited September 26, 2015 by Lokiberry

[Llywela]

 I quite liked Steven, but Dodo never made much of an impression on me one way or the other. I find it amusing that she eventually just wandered off in the middle of an episode and was never seen again.

Steven is fab - I really enjoy the character, and Peter Purves' performance. Dodo...was just horribly written. She had potential. You can see what they were shooting for, the contrast between Dodo's sunny temperament and Steven's cynicism, but unfortunately her ditziness was taken way, way too far, to the point where she just looked really stupid for never being able to recognise danger, constantly putting her friends in danger by her thoughtlessness and never, ever learning from her mistakes.

 

The Gunfighters is entertaining enough, but there really isn't anything much to get your teeth into. It's just...insubstantial fluff, really.

[SnideAsides]

The Dominators is not an episode anyone ever really talks about, and I assumed it was just because it was right before The Mind Robber, but no. It turns out it's just a bit shit. (See also: the fashion, the pro-war sentiment, the fashion, Zoe's "now I feel like a real woman!" bit, the fashion.)

[Llywela]

The Dominators is not an episode anyone ever really talks about, and I assumed it was just because it was right before The Mind Robber, but no. It turns out it's just a bit shit. (See also: the fashion, the pro-war sentiment, the fashion, Zoe's "now I feel like a real woman!" bit, the fashion.)

I'm pretty sure Zoe does not say she feels like a real woman! In fact - I checked the transcript - she doesn't. Cully - who has never encountered an alien before, and therefore has never seen anyone wearing anything but the cultural norm on his world - says that she looks like a real girl now when she changes into a Dulcian outfit. Zoe, meanwhile, isn't so sure about the dress and says it feels impractical and inefficient. But the point of that scene isn't that Zoe does or doesn't feel more feminine in a dress (speaking as a woman, there is nothing wrong with enjoying the feminine feel of a dress or skirt, if that's what you like!), but that she needs to pass as a Dulcian to get access to a capsule to get back to the island to help save the day.

 

It isn't a very strong story, though, you are right. I kinda like it, though. I like seeing how mentally tough Zoe is while she's a prisoner, working so hard to keep the other prisoners going. I like seeing Jamie coming into his own as a guerilla warrior. And I like Cully, the only open-minded Dulcian of the lot.

Edited September 28, 2015 by Llywela

[benteen]

I remember all the alien men in this story seemed to be wearing a dress.

 

I like the story too, Llywela.

[Glendenning]

As for Zoe's "REAL WOMEN NEVER WEAR DRESSES" straw feminism, there once was a wonderful piece by a former Victorian (Australia) Equal Opportunity Board president that points out that you shouldn't expect social justice movements to save you from your own mistakes and failures. ("feminism has led us to the banquet table, but it's up to us as to what we make of the meal")

[Llywela]

As for Zoe's "REAL WOMEN NEVER WEAR DRESSES" straw feminism

But there was no 'real women never wear dresses' straw feminism, not in this story. The OP misunderstood. Zoe wears skirts and dresses quite often, in fact. In The Dominators she changes into a native dress and a guest character remarks that she looks like a real girl now, but that comes from him - an man who has never seen a girl wearing anything other than native garb - rather than from Zoe, who alternates between trousers and skirts from adventure to adventure. Zoe wears whatever the heck she wants to.

[SnideAsides]

In less controversial opinions, The Mind Robber is very very good. It's not my favourite story so far, and it's not even in the top five, but I appreciated it more than I was expecting to. For some reason I was expecting something a bit more whimsical (in the vein of Alice in Wonderland), but I think that would have just made it feel like a ripoff of The Celestial Toymaker. And I think we can all agree it's a good thing it wasn't, right?

[Glendenning]

In the novelization of TMR, Zoe actually is turned into Alice of Alice in Wonderland.

[Glendenning]

Invasion of The Dinosaurs

 

Professor Whitaker has invented a time machine and lives in a version of 20th Century England where any TOMTIT, Dick or Harry can get funding for exciting world-changing technology, and Britain is a global player in the space and energy races. He's ideally placed both to experiment with techno fixes and get practical results, but instead hangs out with this rather nebulous millenarial conspiracy?

[SnideAsides]

The Invasion is more of the same, really. Yay for more Brigadier and an even bigger yay for the temporary end of the Cybermen, but... I'm so glad I get a new Doctor at the end of this season. I feel like while Two and Jamie are here, the show's kind of in a holding pattern where it's repeating the same few things over and over.

[elle]

Just caught the last few minutes of The Keeper of Trakken, right at the moment Nyssa's father touches the clock and calls for her.  So what is the deal with The Master being a body snatcher?  How is that possible?  And was his Tardis always a clock?  Smirk at that~!

[HauntedBathroom]

The accepted explanation of the Tremas body snatch is that the Master used the power of the Source to hijack that body once he lost the chance to get another Time Lord one. I think that the lure of the Tremas/Master anagram was too much for him, and he decided he just had to have it!

 

And the Master's been tooling around in a grandfather clock TARDIS since The Deadly Assassin. Before that, it was anything he fancied, his chameleon circuit was always working.

Edited September 30, 2015 by HauntedBathroom

[elle]

The accepted explanation of the Tremas body snatch is that the Master used the power of the Source to hijack that body once he lost the chance to get another Time Lord one. I think that the lure of the Tremas/Master anagram was too much for him, and he decided he just had to have it!

 

And the Master's been tooling around in a grandfather clock TARDIS since The Deadly Assassin. Before that, it was anything he fancied, his chameleon circuit was always working.

So did The Master still have the power of the source when he became a quicksilver slug to take over Eric Roberts or by then they didn't bother with the why?

 

When I first saw that scene I did wonder if the writers of Stargate were fans of Dr. Who, the way The Master became Roberts seemed very similar to how a the snake like Goa'uld would take over a human/host.

[John Potts]

No, the writers were just high when they wrote that! (Or something less libellous)

[alias1]

I watched all the classic Tom Baker episodes that BBCA showed and I didn't see how the Doctor picked up Adric.  Can someone explain where Adric came from?

[John Potts]

SierraMist I didn't see how the Doctor picked up Adric

 

 

Well the simple answer is "E-space", a sort of parallel dimension (or something) that the Doctor was stuck in for three serials (Full Circle, State of Decay and Warrior's Gate). Adric was picked up there (Full Circle, I think). Romana (Romana Mark 2, Lalla Ward) got left behind there, along with K9 (possibly also Mark 2).

[Glendenning]

E-Space is a pocket universe, not a parallel dimension.

[tv-talk]

 

Just caught the last few minutes of The Keeper of Trakken, right at the moment Nyssa's father touches the clock and calls for her.  So what is the deal with The Master being a body snatcher?  How is that possible?  And was his Tardis always a clock?  Smirk at that~!

 

For my money that's one of the best scenes in all of Who! I love, love, love the occassional creepiness and weridness of classic Who. Everything is all well right there and suddenly her Father is for all intents and purposes murdered, we're left with her saying "Father, father? Where are you?" just as the classic theme music screeches in to end the episode. That was awesome, made an impression on me as a little kid imagining losing parent etc. Good stuff!

[SnideAsides]

So, The Krotons. I know I felt weird last season about following The Abominable Snowmen with The Ice Warriors because of the similar concepts even though they're very different stories, but this is literally just another four-episode Cybermen story without the actual Cybermen. Sigh. Save me, Pertwee.

[benteen]

So, The Krotons. I know I felt weird last season about following The Abominable Snowmen with The Ice Warriors because of the similar concepts even though they're very different stories, but this is literally just another four-episode Cybermen story without the actual Cybermen. Sigh. Save me, Pertwee.

I wasn't a fan of The Krotons but the intellectual rivalry between The Doctor and Zoe in it is a lot of fun.

[SnideAsides]

The Seeds of Death... good story, still ready to get away from Two and Jamie for a bit.

[benteen]

The Seeds of Death is a very fun story.

 

Two and Jamie are a fun pairing...along with Zoe I think they made one of the best TARDIS teams.

[Llywela]

Agreed, Benteen. I'm very fond of the Second Doctor with Jamie and Zoe - they are loads of fun, as a team.

 

That said, I've never marathoned their entire run, so might feel differently if I did!

[benteen]

Their run had some weak episodes but you could always find something fun in their interaction.  The Krotons isn't very good but as I've said, the Doctor and Zoe have a very fun intellectual rivalry in it.  The Dominators isn't well-regarded (though I enjoyed it) but the Doctor and Jaime's interaction in it is great.

[Llywela]

Their run had some weak episodes but you could always find something fun in their interaction.  The Krotons isn't very good but as I've said, the Doctor and Zoe have a very fun intellectual rivalry in it.  The Dominators isn't well-regarded (though I enjoyed it) but the Doctor and Jaime's interaction in it is great.

Agreed. I was just wondering if they might start to grate on me a bit if I watched their run in rapid succession as a marathon as SnidesAsides is doing. I don't think so, though - I've watched most of their stuff, even if not in order, and always find them great fun. I think I'd struggle more with Pertwee's era as a marathon - I'm fond of everyone in it, but find it quite dry and more digestible in smaller doses. Or McCoy's, which is so variable.

Edited October 5, 2015 by Llywela

[benteen]

It took me a while for enjoy Pertwee's character as I found him more serious than other Doctors but I have been watching the era straight through recently (save for four stories I saw on Netflix last year) and have been really enjoying them.  His Doctor can really be an ass to the people around him but warms up as time goes on.  There isn't one story I haven't liked although be warned, the Pertwee era has a LOT of six-parters.